BS: Cornbread Dressing

Subject: BS: Cornbread Dressing
From: DougR
Date: 25 Nov 09 - 01:05 PM

I realize that there is an existing Thanksgiving thread, but Donuel's thread deals more with dinner around the dining room table, and mine addresses a vital ingredient in a Thanksgiving dinner about which there is some controversy. If not universal, at least in my way of thinking.

The subject is "dressing."

My first Thanksgiving dinner when I was in the U.S. Army was greatly anticipated. I had enlisted in July, 1948, at Ft.(then Camp)Hood near Killean, Texas and had graduated from basic training in late August. The weather was miserably hot. We all looked forward to the Fall and one of the most pleasurable events that takes place during that time of year is Thanksgiving.

I realize that only the United States and Australia recognize an official day devoted to Thanksgiving, therefore the subject may only appeal to Mudcatters in those two countries, but if the subject doesn't appeal to you, there are other possibilities posted here at the Mudcat.

Imagine my surprise when awaiting in line for my Thanksgiving dinner at Camp Hood when I witnessed one of the servers shoveling a sticky, muddy looking substance on my plate beside a cooked piece of formerly frozen (probably around 1941) turkey. "What's that", I inquired of the server, "the gummy looking stuff?" "Dressing," he replied. "Arghhhhhhh!", I screamed, where is the cornbread dressing?"

That was the first time I realized that "dressing" for the Thanksgiving turkey might be something other than "CORNBREAD!"

Others might not be aware that such dressing even exists. For those poor, deprived souls, I decided, since tomorrow is Thanksgiving in the United States, I would share my recipe for the most important ingredient in ANY Thanksgiving dinner ...the stuffing. I realize that other southern raised Mudcatters might have different takes on the dressing, and if they do, I hope they will share them. This is my mother's recipe, and the one I still prepare for Thanksgiving dinner.

CORNBREAD DRESSING
Servings: 4 (recipe can be adjusted for larger servings)

4 1/2 cups cornbread (no sugar in the cornbread)crumbled
4 1/2 cups crumbled day old light bread
1 1/2 cups chopped onion
1 1/2 cups chopped celery
3/4 cups melted butter or margarine (divided use)
3    eggs beaten
3/4 tablespoon rubbed sage
1   teaspoon salt
1/2 teaspoon ground black pepper
1 1/3 cups turkey broth (perhaps a smidgen more if the mixture is too dry)

Preheat oven to 400 degrees (F)
In large bowl combine the breads:set aside.
In large skillet, lightly brown onion and celery in half the butter until tender, and add to breads.
Add remaining melted butter, eggs, sage, salt, pepper, and turkey broth to the bread mixture and mix well.
Spoon into greased baking dish and bake until lightly browned, around 25 to 30 minutes.
Cut in squares to serve.
The dressing can also be cooked in the turkey if you wish.
Note: If you wish my cornbread recipe, PM me.

What say you?
DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Cornbread Dressing
From: DougR
Date: 25 Nov 09 - 01:07 PM

Oops! The recipe is for six not four.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Cornbread Dressing
From: Bill D
Date: 25 Nov 09 - 01:20 PM

not cornbread...but.

I have been cooking Thompson's Turkey off & on for 45 years.
The dressing is the major reason to do it.

My recipe varies 'slightly' from the original...(fewer Water Chestnut for example), but it is essentially the same.

It is WORK, as it says.... but it is amazing.

Subject: RE: BS: Cornbread Dressing
From: gnu
Date: 25 Nov 09 - 01:23 PM

"I realize that only the United States and Australia recognize an official day devoted to Thanksgiving..."

When we annex the USA, it will be only be two countries... Australia and Canada.

Subject: RE: BS: Cornbread Dressing
From: Jeri
Date: 25 Nov 09 - 01:28 PM

On the subject of dressing/stuffing, for me it's a traditional/comfort thing. Mom used to make it with stale bread cubes, celery, onions, cooked sausage (the sage breakfast kind) and Bell's seasoning. She got smart after a while and made a bit extra, because I'd grab handfuls of it out of the bowl before it got cooked.

I never really got into cornbread stuffing. In my military experience, THAT was the 'gummy stuff'. Who really can tell WHAT the ingredients in that stuff are though?

Subject: RE: BS: Cornbread Dressing
From: DougR
Date: 25 Nov 09 - 01:50 PM

gnu: I wasn't aware Canada had an official Thanksgiving holiday. Way to go!

Jeri: Yeah, the sticky, gummy stuff the Army called "dressing" was pretty ...well ...gummy.

My mother-in-law from time to time, included cooked breakfast sausage (with sage) also on occasion included raw oysters (not both at the same time of course). I like them okay, but no water chestnuts.

I sure would like a recipe for breakfast sausage with sage and red pepper seasoning. The commercial sausage we buy here is a bit bland for me.

Bill D: As you can see, you lost me with the water chestnuts.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Cornbread Dressing
From: Becca72
Date: 25 Nov 09 - 02:09 PM

We never had cornbread stuffing; we had Stove Top or rather the store brand equivalent thereof. I find the few times I've had cb stuffing that it's dry (though I am a HUGE fan of cornbread itself).

Subject: RE: BS: Cornbread Dressing
From: DougR
Date: 25 Nov 09 - 02:13 PM

ARGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! STOVETOP! Liberame!

Becca! Wash you mouth out with warm salty water!

DougR

P.S. Next time use more turkey stock.

Subject: RE: BS: Cornbread Dressing
From: Bat Goddess
Date: 25 Nov 09 - 02:14 PM

I like cornbread -- but not in stuffing! Suffered through it for 10 years while married to a person with Southern (US) antecedents as did Curmudgeon for the same reason.

New Englander Tom and transplanted Midwesterner me both insist on bread stuffing -- with onions, celery, sausage, sage, etc. seasoning -- also good with chopped apples added. I like oysters, too, but usually eat them either raw or in stew. Water chestnuts also good for crunch, but Tom for some reason avoids them. The giblets go in the gravy (unless Tom's making the gravy; sigh.)

That's what's traditional (and therefore best) in this household.

Never sampled a restaurant or institutional turkey stuffing that was edible let alone tasty.

Don't screw up my cornbread by putting it in stuffing!

Linn

Subject: RE: BS: Cornbread Dressing
From: pdq
Date: 25 Nov 09 - 02:39 PM

The Mexican root vegetable Jicama can be used to augment or substitute for water chestnuts mentioned above. Perhaps one should experiment a few times before using in Thanksgiving dinner.

Subject: RE: BS: Cornbread Dressing
From: DougR
Date: 25 Nov 09 - 02:45 PM

Linn: we certainly are in agreement about the "restaurant or Institutional" dressing. Urk! Er, do you use sugar as an ingredient in your baked cornbread?

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Cornbread Dressing
From: Becca72
Date: 25 Nov 09 - 03:32 PM

Doug,
Boxed stuffing is what we had when I was a kid...I was not responsible; that would be my mother who was a horrible cook. :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Cornbread Dressing
From: DougR
Date: 25 Nov 09 - 03:55 PM

You are hereby absolved of all guilt! :>)

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Cornbread Dressing
From: gnu
Date: 25 Nov 09 - 06:53 PM

Dried bread, summer savoury, onion... set over night... that's it... cooked IN the turkey. No need to dress it up any more than that. It's gooood dressing.

I find that too many meals are spoiled when recipes get too fancy. I like to stick to the basics.

Subject: RE: BS: Cornbread Dressing
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 25 Nov 09 - 07:20 PM

Australian thanksgiving?

do you mean Australia Day - 26th of January, when we get a national public holiday to celebrate the arrival of the First Fleet in Sydney Cove?

Indigeneous Austalians don't celebrate Australia day - they call it Invasion day - & some people in other states don't see any reason to celebrate when Sydney was founded (tho I don't hear about them refusing the public holiday)

sandra

Subject: RE: BS: Cornbread Dressing
From: michaelr
Date: 25 Nov 09 - 07:26 PM

Food Safety Alert: It's not recommended that you put any stuffing inside the bird because there it will soak up the turkey's juiced and will need to be cooked to 165 to be safe to eat... by that time the outside will be around 180 which means overcooked and dry.

Always cook dressing outside of the bird.

Subject: RE: BS: Cornbread Dressing
From: DougR
Date: 25 Nov 09 - 07:43 PM

Well, Michaelr, I always do. However, my mother cooked the dressing in the turkey during the nineteen years I lived at home and I ate a lot of that dressing (stuffing). I'm sure what you say is correct,but at age 79, I can attest to the fact that one can survive it.

sandra: I can't remember where I heard that only the U.S. and Australia celebrate Thanksgiving day. Most folks here would probably charge that I probably heard it on Fox News Network I guess.

I can't say I would celebrate "invasion" day either.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Cornbread Dressing
From: frogprince
Date: 25 Nov 09 - 07:45 PM

Didn't grow up on cornbread dressing in Minnesota, but I've had it various times for years now, and I consider it good stuff.

Subject: RE: BS: Cornbread Dressing
From: Bill D
Date: 25 Nov 09 - 10:03 PM

Cornbread stuffing is like fruitcake or mince pie... if it's done right, it can be quite nice....but, so few bother.

Subject: RE: BS: Cornbread Dressing
From: Michael Harrison
Date: 25 Nov 09 - 10:27 PM

Well, I grew up in Detroit, Michigan, and we had stuffing that was made from stale bread, onions, celery, spices, etc. I've been married to a Texan now for four years and with her for the last ten and every year we had cornbread stuffing. I finally challenged her last year to make "yankee" stuffing and it was a hit; I've been advised that we will be having both from now on. Now,...about those dumplings y'all make down here,......Happy Thanksgiving.........mwh

Subject: RE: BS: Cornbread Dressing
From: Riginslinger
Date: 25 Nov 09 - 11:18 PM

It's good to know people are thankful, whatever their stuffing.

Subject: RE: BS: Cornbread Dressing
From: Janie
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 12:48 AM

I've not had cornbread dressing that I liked as well as white bread stuffing, but I'm gonna try your recipe between now and Christmas, Doug. If it turns out well I'll make it again for Christmas Eve supper.

When you talk about sugar in cornbread, I think Yankee cornbread vs Southern cornbread. I grew up on southern cornbread. No sugar, white cornmeal, equal proportion of flour to cornmeal, or even a quarter cup more cornmeal to flour. Good and gritty, not too high a rise, and a dark, crisp side and bottom crust from the bacon fat and the hot, cast iron skillet. Ex-hubby's family hailed from New York and Boston. He liked Yankee cornbread. Sweet, yellow cornmeal, baked in a square pan, and an almost cake-like texture.

I like 'em both, but I particularly like to crumble cornbread into my bowl of pinto beans, or to crumble a wedge into a glass and pour milk over it for a bedtime snack. Can't beat Southern cornbread for either of those "applications."

Back to topic. We weren't southern or northern. We were West Virginian. Both my parents were mostly raised in Huntington, but Dad was from eastern KY, and Mom was from the southern coalfields of WV. My Dad was mostly in charge of making the dressing when I was a kid. (He and Mom both like to cook, neither one cedes gracefully to the other, and there can be a lot of sharp elbows and tongues in the kitchen leading up to feast days:>) He did not use cornbread, but made a traditional white bread dressing. It was a big production. Lots of celery, onion, sage and some other herbs, but no sausage. Always two pans of dressing - one with oysters and one without.

Dressing, cornbread or no, is an art form. The creative aspect is not so much in the ingredients, but in the complex of how much moisture and mixing with finesse. A recipe is only a guide. It takes intuition, a light hand, and a "feel"for how much liquid and how much tossing.

Subject: RE: BS: Cornbread Dressing
From: Bat Goddess
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 12:12 PM

Oh, I don't do black-eyed peas on New Year's Day either -- had that for the ten years of my first marriage. (Got nothing against black-eyed peas especially with bacon fat -- lots of things are good with bacon fat -- just not part of my tradition.)

Linn

Subject: RE: BS: Cornbread Dressing
From: frogprince
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 12:36 PM

As to putting sugar in cornbread, if I want to eat brownies I'll eat brownies.

Subject: RE: BS: Cornbread Dressing
From: GUEST,Russ
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 01:48 PM

When if comes to dressing my wife makes great versions with either cornbread or bread cubes.

Can't say that I have a preference.

As for cornbread, my mother, a native born and bred West Virginia, made what Janie calls "yankee" cornbread. Go figure. That's what I grew up eating.
My wife, a native born and bred Kentuckian, made what Janie calls "southern" cornbread.
Of course, I did not know about my wife's cornbreak preferences until after we were married. What could have been a deal-breaker actually wasn't. She converted me.

It would have been much more serious if she had been a miracle whip person.

Cornbread is much more complex than a simple distinction between yankee and southern. Years ago I created a decision tree that I can no longer find.

White or yellow
sweet or not sweet
cast iron skillet or not
etc.

Russ (permanent GUEST)

Subject: RE: BS: Cornbread Dressing
From: open mike
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 03:41 PM

I make a vegetarian "stuffing" or "dressing" where
the main ingredient is green tomatoes...usually the
garden has had frost by thanksgiving and there are
always a few left by thanksgiving, or if the frost
is early I can pick them and wrap in paper until
the time is right.

I bake it in pans or casserole dishes, not in a bird.

I put in black olives, fresh sage, celery, water
chestnuts or jicama for crunchiness, celery, and
sometimes chestnuts...the other kind of chestnuts.
the ones that grow on trees.

plus I add tamari as i saute the veggie parts
then i add to dry bread crumbs ... i either toast
the bread (whole wheat) or set it out in the air
to dry before cutting and breaking the bread into
pieces.

Subject: RE: BS: Cornbread Dressing
From: Joybell
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 05:22 PM

Thank you, Doug. Can't wait to try it. I'm an Aussie married to a Midwesterner. True-love's Mum/Mom used packets too, Becca. In fact she cooked only from tins and packets. Peas, pumpkin -- I never knew pumpkin came in a tin -- it doesn't here. True-love didn't know it came any other way. He was a rural type too -- from Iowa.
Anyway we both love corn bread. We can try it just to celebrate eating. No -- I've not come across Thanksgiving here except maybe for American expats.
Cheers, Joy

Subject: RE: BS: Cornbread Dressing
From: EBarnacle
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 10:37 PM

My first reaction when I saw the thread title was that this was some offbeat means of dressing wounds. I really prefer the real intent of this thread.

I have yet to find a grain or bread which cannot be made to work well as stuffing. Consider kasha as a base or even buckwheat flour, maybe oatmeal or couscous... They're all good.

Just DON'T add sugar. A bit of fat from the bird is all the sweetening needed. This is not candy; it is a ritual food, not a glop to be dumped on a plate by uncaring servitors.

Subject: RE: BS: Cornbread Dressing
From: Bat Goddess
Date: 27 Nov 09 - 08:39 AM

I like wild rice stuffing, too -- but not as a substitute for bread stuffing.

Linn

Subject: RE: BS: Cornbread Dressing
From: DougR
Date: 27 Nov 09 - 12:14 PM

I find it interesting that many posters (US)mention "Southern" and "Yankee" cornbread. I always felt that the only possible reason that things might have turned out better had the South won "The War" would be that cornbread dressing, made with unsweetened cornbread would likely have been the accepted stuffing for Thanksgiving turkeys. In a PM Linn mentioned another excellent use for cornbread ...crumbled in sweet milk. The fact that she does not eat black-eyed peas (and I assume cabbage) on New Year's Eve probably accounts for the fact that she does not appear to be a millionaire (otherwise she would probably be doing something other than replying to a dumb post on cornbread).

Russ: I doubt the use of a cast iron skillet is absolutely essential to producing a good batch of cornbread. My mother use to use a regular small round baking pan to cook hers and we never complained.

Open Mike: that's a strange (to me)recipe to use to make stuffing but I'll file it away in the event that cornmeal at some point becomes unavailable.

Joy: No tinned pumpkin in Australia? Whatever would US cooks use to make pumpkin pies if no canned pumpkin pie mixes weren't available on grocery shelves?

E. Barnacle: I like your sentiments but can't possible conceive of using oatmeal as stuffing for a turkey! To each his own I guess.

Thanks everybody for contributing to this thread!

DougR