BS: Recipes Please, Corned Beef and Cabbage

Subject: BS: Recipes Please, Corned Beef and Cabbage
From: Janie
Date: 30 Dec 13 - 09:35 PM

Looking for a good oven or stove-top recipe for corned-beef and cabbage for New Year's Day supper that includes beer or Stout and brown sugar. I don't like my mother's method from the time crock pots were invented because the veggies are always turned to mush. She has used a crockpot for so many years that she no longer has the recipe she used pre-crockpot.

I have a 4 lb. brisket and the label says up to 35% solution of a bunch of stuff, including sodium phosphates and sodium nitrates. Doesn't say if that is 35% by weight or by volume but I assume by weight.

As an aside, and for another year other than 2014, is it possible to find corned beef "naturally brined?" i.e. sans the phosphates and nitrates? Or is that just the reality of corned beef?

Subject: RE: BS: Recipes Please, Corned Beef and Cabbage
From: Rapparee
Date: 30 Dec 13 - 10:03 PM

You can make your own corned beef, if you wish. It's not hard, but it can be messy as the meat has to sit in the brine for some time (preferably covered). There are recipes online.

Subject: RE: BS: Recipes Please, Corned Beef and Cabbage
From: Janie
Date: 31 Dec 13 - 01:07 AM

There are also recipes on-line to fix the already corned brisket in my fridge, and some of them I have tried in years past, with less than impressive results. Looking for a recipe some one, such as you and other compatriots on Mudcat swear by.

After these long years in the upper south, I suppose I ought to have adopted the tradition of beans and greens, hoppin' john, etc. I've never developed a taste for black-eyed peas, nor for collards, however. Pintos and kale, turnips or mustard greens, for sure and for certain - but not for New Years, and misses the mark down here in these parts, regardless. It's corned beef and cabbage for me and mine - and I have the shiny new dime at hand. Just want a better recipe.

Subject: RE: BS: Recipes Please, Corned Beef and Cabbage
From: Joe Offer
Date: 31 Dec 13 - 02:49 AM

Hi, Janie -
I simmer the corned beef by itself for most of the cooking time, and add the vegetables for the last half hour to 45 minutes, cooking until they're done. I cook the cabbage separately in clean water, and I like it much better that way.
Oh - brown mustard on boiled cabbage is really tasty.

I haven't seen corned beef without nitrates - part of the curing.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Recipes Please, Corned Beef and Cabbage
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 31 Dec 13 - 03:10 AM

Simmering it for a long time(depending on the size), too, here's a handy hint, that once you do it, you will ALWAYS do it from now on...because it tenderizes it...and juicy!!... and helps alleviate the chemicals.....ADD 1 quart of beer, or lager, a good one, when you start!

Then, when you take it out, put it in a oven at 250 for about 20-25 minutes...if you made a glaze, that's when you put it on it.

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Recipes Please, Corned Beef and Cabbage
From: GUEST,the troll formally known as concerened
Date: 31 Dec 13 - 07:32 AM

Crap!!!! When I was head chef in the Fitzwilliam Hotel in Dublin, the only food from the gods was my boiled BACON and cabbage.Cook your cabbage in with the bacon, boil yer spuds in their native skins, serve with black pepper, butter, and mebes some parsley sauce.I also like bashed swede with this delightful dish.Of course to compliment the whole job is a foaming pint of Sir Arther s best. Bon Appetit!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Recipes Please, Corned Beef and Cabbage
From: GUEST,sciencegeek
Date: 31 Dec 13 - 09:01 AM

if your brisket is alreay corned you can simmer it any number of ways. You should have either the packet of pickling spices that came with it or else use a tablespoon or two of your own to add to the liquid. This would be the time to add the beer and brown sugar... the flavor will concentrate during the simmering. 1 bottle of beer and 1/4 cup of sugar should do nicely. fine tune to taste as you go - as long as the liquid is flavorful, so will the end product.

You can cook the vegetables separately... though I add them to the main pot at the end to gain the added flavor. Tender not mushy is the goal. And a long slow simmer will make the meat tender but easy to slice at the end... same as as using the oven without the glaze.

Good mustard is a must... and Irish mustard sauce is outstanding - recipes abound online. Have some good vinegar - apple or malt - on the table to add to the vegetables, especially the cabbage.

I often use a large electric skillet or roaster oven to make the beef - better control as long as you keep an eye on the level of liquid and frees up the stove. A dutch oven works fine - stove top or in the oven.

Damn - it's barely past breakfast here & I'm dying for a nice corned beef dinner.... LOL

Subject: RE: BS: Recipes Please, Corned Beef and Cabbage
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 31 Dec 13 - 01:10 PM

sciencegeek and I both agree on the beer!

..For your glaze..peach(Pureed canned peaches)/fresh ginger/fresh garlic(all pureed together)/sweet&sour sauce/mesquite(liquid smoke)...and that glaze is killer on ham, as well!!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Recipes Please, Corned Beef and Cabbage
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 31 Dec 13 - 02:01 PM

your 'corned beef' sounds quite like our 'salt beef' (brined and salt-petered and pickled with peppery spices) which despite being quite traditional here fell out of favour with us Brits years ago when we started importing the processed tinned stuff from Argentina. As the troll notes - the much cheaper option - boiled gammon or bacon is what the Irish traditionally have with their cabbage (as well as boiled spuds) though they did once dominate the export business in corned beef to Europe and the US which is probably why US folk often have corned beef at St. Pats.

Subject: RE: BS: Recipes Please, Corned Beef and Cabbage
From: Janie
Date: 31 Dec 13 - 09:43 PM

Thanks y'all! Just went out and bought the Stout. Do you recommend using all Stout for the liquid, or should I use 1 bottle then water to cover? If I need to add liquid during the cooking process, more Stout, or more water?

CS, as I was researching I did see that what we call corned beef is called salt beef on your side of the pond.

I did see one recipe on-line that calls for lightly browning the cabbage, carrots and potatoes before adding, and I think I will try that. Not sure yet whether I will fix it on top of the stove or in the oven. That electric skillet sounds like a good idea, sciencegeek - and justifies me having kept that electric skillet lo! these many years while very rarely pulling it out - but the brisket might be a little too tall - I don't want the skillet filled with liquid to the brim.

Has been interesting to do a little reading about the history of corned beef, it's value as an export from coastal Ireland to the wealthy British estate holders in the 18th and 19th century, economics, and the development of an Irish-American tradition around corned beef that also includes elements of the proximity of Irish, Jewish and German immigrants in neighborhoods in major cities along the Atlantic seaboard of the USA in the 18th, and especially the 19th and early 20th century. Not much Irish or Irish-American in my family. A fair amount of German. However, my sole Irish-American great grandmother was a central figure in my mother's life - partially raised Mom, and I am guessing the corned beef and cabbage tradition that I was raised with stems from that. Makes not much sense otherwise, given my central Appalachian roots.

Women and their stoves, when they be the purveyors of culinary culture, are powerful influences, eh?

Subject: RE: BS: Recipes Please, Corned Beef and Cabbage
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 01 Jan 14 - 12:47 AM

The party's over, I realize, but I thought I'd pass on some observations for the future.

1. I find corned beef to be inconsistent - one year it's tender, next it's tough.

2. I cook the meat in the slow cooker, and once in a while I remove the excess liquid with a basting bulb, so that part of the meat is out of the water and it's not so soggy.

3. A slow cooker liner saves a lot of cleaning up.

4. I steam the cabbage separately over plain water. It's delicious with butter and black pepper on it.

4. Irish soda bread is easy to make, and people like it. (I use yogurt instead of buttermilk in the recipe because one thing of yogurt is enough for one loaf of soda bread. )

Subject: RE: BS: Recipes Please, Corned Beef and Cabbage
From: severed-head
Date: 01 Jan 14 - 05:31 AM

In response to CS, a good piece of Salt Beef is totally different to the imported tinned stuff. I think the main reason for the decline in popularity of salt beef here in UK is the advice to limit/reduce the amount of salt we consume. For a huge number of people, Salt Beef has been added to the "forbidden" list. Hot Salt Beef Sandwiches were very popular here at one time, especially in areas with a high Jewish population.
Garry

Subject: RE: BS: Recipes Please, Corned Beef and Cabbage
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 01 Jan 14 - 05:59 AM

Severed-head, I had salt beef once many years ago, it had never been a tradition in my family adn I had to order it in specially from a good butcher and soak it overnight or some such. It was so long ago I can hardly remember anything about it except that it wasn't cheap but was tasty! And as you say, certainly nothing like tinned corned beef, which is principally composed of gristle and fat.

I know what you mean about salt though, I have *low* blood pressure - always have - and yet the generic health advice you see peddled everywhere from the internet to TV programmes to magazine articles takes no account of different people's needs and tells us *all* to "cut back" "don't add salt to cooking" "don't add salt to food at the table" which for someone like me (who's been known to black out if I get up too quickly) would be a fruitless exercise at best and even potentially problematic. I find such indiscriminate public advice to be pretty annoying, salt is definitely something I enjoy in my food, and until my GP tells me otherwise I don't plan to stop enjoying it.

How is / was your corned beef Janie?

Subject: RE: BS: Recipes Please, Corned Beef and Cabbage
From: Janie
Date: 01 Jan 14 - 07:02 AM

I'll let you know. Supper is at 6 tonight. Come on over, there will be plenty!

Subject: RE: BS: Recipes Please, Corned Beef and Cabbage
From: sciencegeek
Date: 01 Jan 14 - 07:09 AM

LOL... love it! So many ways to prepare and all pretty dang good.

The best corned beef we ever had was at my brother's wedding reception held at an Irish bar in St. Louis, Missouri.

It was a beef hindquarter that was still covered with the peppercorns and tender, juicy & great flavor. It was an interesting flight back to NY, though... LOL

but he'd do again it was that good.

Here in NY, we have the Jewish tradition of corned beef or pastrami sandwiches on good rye bread slathered with mustard or Russian dressing. And a grilled Reuben (sooo not kosher) has corned beef with saurkraut & swiss cheese on rye. yummm

Subject: RE: BS: Recipes Please, Corned Beef and Cabbage
From: GUEST,the troll formally known as concerened
Date: 01 Jan 14 - 07:11 AM

The only place to put stout is down yer throat!!

Subject: RE: BS: Recipes Please, Corned Beef and Cabbage
From: Janie
Date: 01 Jan 14 - 11:48 AM

Gonna go for the stovetop. Just remembered I need my oven for the cornbread.

Subject: RE: BS: Recipes Please, Corned Beef and Cabbage
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 01 Jan 14 - 06:39 PM

Corning one's own beef is simple, but a nice piece of un-corned brisket costs more than a comparable hunk of corned beef. Incidentlly, he nitrate is only there for the color.People expect pink corned beef

Subject: RE: BS: Recipes Please, Corned Beef and Cabbage
From: Janie
Date: 01 Jan 14 - 07:54 PM

It turned out great! Many thanks for all the tips and advice.

I wonder why that is, Dick? You'd think with the extra packaging and processing the corned beef would be more expensive. Go figure, eh?

Subject: RE: BS: Recipes Please, Corned Beef and Cabbage
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 02 Jan 14 - 05:39 AM

Janie, Did you end up using the beer in it while cooking?

GfSD

Subject: RE: BS: Recipes Please, Corned Beef and Cabbage
From: Janie
Date: 02 Jan 14 - 06:19 AM

Yep! Two bottles of Guinness Extra Stout. Was delicious.

Subject: RE: BS: Recipes Please, Corned Beef and Cabbage
From: GUEST,sciencegeek
Date: 02 Jan 14 - 10:08 AM

quite right, Dick...

the addition of nitrate or nitrite to meats does give it that unique color, but they are also essential when smoking meats - preserving it at "low" temperatures that are ideal for the growth of bacteria.

That goes for canning as well... low acid foods can become a breeding ground for Clostridium botulina... and botulism is nothing to fool around with.

with modern refrigeration & freezing technologies so prevelant, we often fail to appreciate what our ancesters had to do to ensure a supply of food throughout the year.