BS: proper mexican chili recipe

Subject: BS: authentic mexican chilli recipe
From: ossonflags
Date: 24 Jun 03 - 12:43 PM

i met a bro'from Texas the other day who told me there were no tomatoes in proper Chilli.Can any of our American comrades put him/me right?
Being a singer I believe that chilli taken in sufficiantly large doses is very good for the vocal chords.

Subject: RE: BS: proper mexican chilli recipe
From: MMario
Date: 24 Jun 03 - 12:54 PM

ask three hundred people about chili and you'll get three hundred opinions!

But histories I've read about "Chili con carne" - (which is texan rather then mexican in origin) mostly agree that the "first" chili was beef and chili peppers and not much else

Subject: RE: BS: proper mexican chilli recipe
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 24 Jun 03 - 12:54 PM

True chili is not a Mexican dish and most of the original recipes do not contain tomatoes.

Ron

Subject: RE: BS: proper mexican chilli recipe
From: Sorcha
Date: 24 Jun 03 - 12:57 PM

Nope, chile was originally a gravy made with broth and ground chiles poured over stuff like tamles and enchiladas. True Texas chile con carne has no beans either.

Subject: RE: BS: proper mexican chilli recipe
From: Wesley S
Date: 24 Jun 03 - 01:10 PM

The easiest way to get an argument started here in Ft Worth is

A - Tell someone where the best B-B-Q can be found

B - Tell someone where the best Tex-Mex food can be found

C - Tell someone that chile has/doesn't have beans in it

PS - The answers to the above questions are Angelos, Benitos and it really doesn't matter that much as long as you have something cold and wet to wash it down with.

Subject: RE: BS: proper mexican chilli recipe
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 24 Jun 03 - 01:16 PM

I've never heard of chile originally being a gravy.   Every history I've read of the dish centers around cooks on the cattle drives making a dish with chili peppers, spices and meat. Chili con carne literally means "peppers with meat".    It is true that Spanish cooks used chili peppers in other dishes, but they would not be considered what we know as "chili".

Subject: RE: BS: proper mexican chilli recipe
From: artbrooks
Date: 24 Jun 03 - 01:43 PM

Texans don't know nothin' about chili. Chilis are peppers. Calling a dish with chilis in it "chili" is kinda like referring to beer as "hops."   More here.

Subject: RE: BS: proper mexican chilli recipe
From: catspaw49
Date: 24 Jun 03 - 01:49 PM

LOL at Wesley!!!

Wes, ain't that the truth???? And I'll go you one better on BBQ! When I was the Southern Divisional Director for Sun Electric I had to eat BBQ from the Virginia Tidewater to the Rio Grande and all ppoints in between. And all of it was sworn by it's local proponents to be the "Best gawdam barbecue ya' kin git anywhere." I, of cousre knew this to be false as I make the best gawdam barbecue ya' kin git anywhere!

Just like chili where Mario nailed it, ask 300 folks and you'll get 300 answers!

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: proper mexican chilli recipe
From: ossonflags
Date: 24 Jun 03 - 03:19 PM

Jeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeezuuuuuuuuuuuuuuusssssssssss ArtBrooks, just checked out the recipes on that chili site, them goodoleboys asses must glow in the dark!!!!!! can't wait to try one or six out.

Thanks y'all very informative.Best wishes from all the boys in "Punch the Horse"

Subject: RE: BS: proper mexican chilli recipe
From: catspaw49
Date: 24 Jun 03 - 03:23 PM

If you haven't seen this piece before, it's worth a read!
****************************************************************
Chili Judge


Copyright 1997 W. Bruce Cameron
Please do not remove the copyright from this essay

Recently I was honored to be selected as an Outstanding Famous Celebrity in my Community to be a judge at a chili cook-off because no one else wanted to do it. Also the original person called in sick at the last moment and I happened to be standing there at the judge's table asking directions to the beer wagon when the call came.

I was assured by the other two judges that the chili wouldn't be all that spicy, and besides they told me I could have free beer during the tasting, so I accepted this as being one of those burdens you endure when you're an Internet writer and therefore known and adored by all.

Here are the scorecards from the event:

Chili # 1: Mike's Maniac Mobster Monster Chili

JUDGE ONE: A little too heavy on tomato. Amusing kick.
JUDGE TWO: Nice, smooth tomato flavor Very mild.
CAMERON: Holy smokes, what is this stuff? You could remove dried paint from your driveway with it. Took me two beers to put the flames out. Hope that's the worst one. These people are crazy.

Chili # 2: Arthur's Afterburner Chili

JUDGE ONE: Smoky (barbecue?) with a hint of pork. Slight Jalapeno tang.
JUDGE TWO: Exciting BBQ flavor, needs more peppers to be taken seriously.
CAMERON: Keep this out of reach of children! I'm not sure what I am supposed to taste besides pain. I had to wave off two people who wanted to give me the Heimlich maneuver. Shoved my way to the front of the beer line. The barmaid looks like a professional wrestler after a bad night. She was so irritated over my gagging sounds that the snake tattoo under her eye started to twitch. She has arms like Popeye and a face like Winston Churchill. I will NOT pick a fight with her.

Chili # 3: Fred's Famous Burn Down the Barn Chili

JUDGE ONE: Excellent firehouse chili! Great kick. Needs more beans.
JUDGE TWO: A beanless chili, a bit salty, good use of red peppers.
CAMERON: This has got to be a joke. Call the EPA, I've located a uranium spill. My nose feels like I have been sneezing Drano. Everyone knows the routine by now and got out of my way so I could make it to the beer wagon. Barmaid pounded me on the back; now my backbone is in the front part of my chest. She said her friends call her "Sally." Probably behind her back they call her "Forklift."

Chili # 4: Bubba's Black Magic

JUDGE ONE: Black bean chili with almost no spice. Disappointing.
JUDGE TWO: A hint of lime in the black beans. Good side dish for fish or other mild foods, not much of a chili.
CAMERON: I felt something scraping across my tongue but was unable to taste it. Sally was standing behind me with fresh refills so I wouldn't have to dash over to see her. When she winked at me her snake sort of coiled and uncoiled—it's kinda cute.

Chili # 5: Linda's Legal Lip Remover

JUDGE ONE: Meaty, strong chili. Cayenne peppers freshly ground adding considerable kick. Very impressive.
JUDGE TWO: Chili using shredded beef; could use more tomato. Must admit the cayenne peppers make a strong statement.
CAMERON: My ears are ringing and I can no longer focus my eyes. I belched and four people in front of me needed paramedics. The contestant seemed hurt when I told her that her chili had given me brain damage. Sally saved my tongue by pouring beer directly on it from a pitcher. Sort of irritates me that one of the other judges asked me to stop screaming.

Chili # 6: Vera's Very Vegetarian Variety

JUDGE ONE: Thin yet bold vegetarian variety chili. Good balance of spice and peppers.
JUDGE TWO: The best yet. Aggressive use of peppers, onions, and garlic. Superb.
CAMERON: My intestines are now a straight pipe filled with gaseous flames. No one seems inclined to stand behind me except Sally. I asked if she wants to go dancing later.

Chili # 7: Susan's Screaming Sensation Chili

JUDGE ONE: A mediocre chili with too much reliance on canned peppers.
JUDGE TWO: Ho Hum, tastes as if the chef threw in canned chili peppers at the last moment. I should note that I am a bit worried about Judge Number 3, he appears to be in a bit of distress.
CAMERON: You could put a hand grenade in my mouth and pull the pin and I wouldn't feel it. I've lost the sight in one eye and the world sounds like it is made of rushing water. My clothes are covered with chili which slid unnoticed out of my mouth at some point. Good, at autopsy they'll know what killed me. Go Sally, save yourself before it's too late. Tell our children I'm sorry I was not there to conceive them. I've decided to stop breathing, it's too painful and I'm not getting any oxygen anyway. If I need air I'll just let it in through the hole in my stomach. Call the X-Files people and tell them I've found a super nova on my tongue.

Chili # 8: Helen's Mount Saint Chili

JUDGE ONE: This final entry is a good, balanced chili, neither mild nor hot. Sorry to see that most of it was lost when Judge Number 3 fell and pulled the chili pot on top of himself.
JUDGE TWO: A perfect ending, this is a nice blend chili, safe for all, not too bold but spicy enough to declare its existence.
CAMERON: Momma?
*********************************************************************

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: proper mexican chilli recipe
From: NicoleC
Date: 24 Jun 03 - 03:30 PM

Texans can't get chili right to begin with, so don't listen to them. Instead of flavor, any chili cookoff is about how hot it is.

The only thing worse is Southerners from different parts of the south arguing about THEIR chili, which can range anywhere from bean soup to something which more closely resembles Cajun gumbo.

I, on the other hand, make the world's most perfect chili. :D

Subject: RE: BS: proper mexican chilli recipe
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 24 Jun 03 - 03:36 PM

Tough crowd.   How do you like your ribs - dry or wet?

Subject: RE: BS: proper mexican chilli recipe
From: MMario
Date: 24 Jun 03 - 03:37 PM

yes.

But clam chowder don't got no 'maters in it!!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: proper mexican chilli recipe
From: Rapparee
Date: 24 Jun 03 - 03:43 PM

Words of advice:

If you eat HOT chili (defined as whatever is too hot for your own taste), washing it down with beer or any alcoholic drink will help. So will eating a fat, such as butter, sour cream, guacamole, etc. The capiscums are dissolved in alcohol or fat and rendered much more edible thereby.

Water won't work. Milk and beer will.

Further words: when visiting a New Mexican restaurant, ask what color the hot chili of the day is. Then order the other one. You only get the choices of red and green, so it's not hard to chose.

As for beans in chili, originally no. No tomatoes, either. But that's all changed over the years. When I make chili, I don't use beans but I do put in rice.

Eat what you like. They are YOUR insides.

Subject: RE: BS: proper mexican chilli recipe
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 24 Jun 03 - 04:54 PM

What a lot of hogwash from Texans! They come to New Mexico to get the true chile con carne. Here is a recipe from the famous cookbook by Erna Fergusson, Univ. New Mexico Press, 1945. Titled "Mexican Cookbook," the recipes mostly are from New Mexico. They reflect the cookery of the settlers from Spain and Mexico in the northern provinces of Spain in America.

But remember, in these recipes- Nadie sabe lo que tiene la olla mas que la cuchara que la menea.

CHILE CON CARNE

2 pounds (mutton) or beef
1 pound fresh pork or ham shoulder
2 cloves garlic, chopped
2 tablespoons lard or drippings
3 bay leaves
( one quart ripe tomatoes- see notes)
1 onion, chopped
1 cup chile pulp or- 6 tablespoons Chimayo or other New Mexico PURE chili powder
1 tablespoon oregano
1 tablespoon salt
1 teaspoon comino (wild cumin)
(1 pint ripe olives)

New Mexicans leave out the tomatoes except in season. Fresh pork was used only at killing time, ham is usual. I have never seen olives used, but apparently they were brought in semi-dried in the old days and were a rare treat. We always make it without tomatoes, olives, or fresh pork, using only the flavorful ham shoulder. Mutton is in disfavor and seldom used.

Cut the meat into small cubes. Brown onion and garlic in fat. If using chile powder see below- prepare and add. Add meat. Cover and steam thoroughly. (Rub tomatoes through colander, add to meat), stir in chile pulp- see below- and cook for 20 minutes. Add seasoning and cook slowly for 2 hours. (cut olives from pits, add and cook for another 1/2 hour).
If chile powder is used, mix with one tablespoon flour, stir into the fat in which the onion and garlic were browned, stir until smooth. Then add meat and proceed as above. Pulping the chile from the dried ristras of chile is favored by the purists, but use gloves if you have sensitive hands.

Serve with frijoles (always pinto beans in New Mexico). The dried beans are washed and cooked with ham shoulder to flavor, and may be simply salted or with some chile if preferred. Never overcook to mush (or refried) the way Tejanos do. Pintos cook more quickly than Red and some others.

FRIJOLES

2 cups pinto beans
1/3 pound salt pork or salt-cured pork shoulder
One pinch oregano.
(a little chile, or season to taste)

Pick and Wash beans carefully. Soak overnight. Drain and cover with cold water. Add pork and oregano, and boil slowly, until tender, about 4 hours (watch carefully). If more water is needed, add hot, never cold. We generally cook a pound of beans at a time.
Beans used to be sold by the sack. More or less weight was added with bean-sized pebbles, hence the admonition to pick carefully.

Subject: RE: BS: proper mexican chilli recipe
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 24 Jun 03 - 05:01 PM

Sounds like you folk in New Mexico have some sort of inferiority conference.

Remember, size doesn't count so don't worry!

Subject: RE: BS: proper mexican chilli recipe
From: Bill D
Date: 24 Jun 03 - 05:15 PM

I have traveled a lot, and eaten chili, BBQ...etc. in many places. It is possible to find GOOD 'stuff' made with or without beans, mild or hot, and good BBQ can be dry OR wet...(just do NOT dump cole slaw over it!!! arrrrgghhhhh)

I have eaten at Bryants BBQ in Kansas City, made famous by Calvin Trillan in a Playboy article years ago...and their BBQ is almost greasy...but YUM! I LOVE slow smoked baby back ribs, with slightly tangy sauce....but I also love chopped pork with HOT sauce.

I have eaten every kind of Tex-Mex food known to man, and 30 years ago, found a little place in Ft. Worth in a converted gas station, where the entire family (Mexican) was picking the beans for next days refried...and it was top-notch!

but...if you are ever in Wichita Kansas, try

Connies Mexico Cafe         
2227 N Broadway St         
Wichita KS 67219-4415
316-832-9636

It has been in business for 30-40 years, and I have eaten there most of those!..amazing food from a family who still do it the old way..(potatoes and peas in the burritos, along with hand chopped beef)...YUM! not mild, either...but tangy and RIGHT... People still go there and buy burrito filling to freeze and take with them, and for gifts to needy friends *grin*

Subject: RE: BS: proper mexican chilli recipe
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 24 Jun 03 - 06:40 PM

Bill D, sounds good! Too many burritos are loaded with beans, which are best as a side dish. Good burrito recipes are carefully guarded. The burrito as we know it, however, with meat and vegetables, may be fairly recent on the border. In various forms, it is a Mediterranean staple, but is not mentioned in the old recipes from the northern provinces in North America- except in the following form, which has almost disappeared (obviously a dish for hard-scrabble, pioneers).
Take a rather thick tortilla, made with white corn masa, but with a little flour added to make working them easier (say, 2 cups masa to one cup flour). Fill the center with chicharrones and bake at about 350 degrees F.
Chicharrones are prepared from the fat under the skin of the hog, especially the part where the bacon is cut. Cut into small pieces and cook slowly in the oven, stirring often, until the lard is rendered out and the color becomes a light brown. Then strain. Served salted as a nibble by people who are into the old cookery.
Or take one burro, cut into small pieces.....

Subject: RE: BS: proper mexican chilli recipe
From: Mark Ross
Date: 24 Jun 03 - 07:21 PM

Glad to hear that Connie's Mexico Cafe is still going. Their all beef burrito was my favorite when I lived in Wichita. Also Arthur Bryant's in KC is wonderful. But to get back to chile, my favorite is chile verde, green chile. Chunks of pork simmered with tomatillos, onions, garlic and serrano peppers. I could live on that stuff, and frequently do. In fact in about 15 minutes I'm heading around the corner for a chile verde burrito!

Bon Appetit!
Mark Ross

Subject: RE: BS: proper mexican chilli recipe
From: catspaw49
Date: 24 Jun 03 - 07:30 PM

The most famous chili from New Mexico for many of us was Mom Unser's Green Chili, a tradition at Indianapolis when she was alive. The matriarch of one of the best known families in racing, "Mom" would have her chili feed the day before "Carburetion Day" every year and to be able to get an invite for a taste was the dream of many of us. Got mine in 1977. From Little Al, her grandson ....Here's her recipe:

Mom Unser's Chili

1pound boneless lean pork tenderloin, cubed

1-each: medium onion, chopped, and garlic clove, minced

2pounds tomatoes, stemmed, or 1 (32-ounce) can tomatoes with liquid

Pinch of oregano

Salt to taste

3(4-ounce) cans chopped green chilies or 1 (32-ounce) can for "high octane" chili

Water

Cooked pinto beans (optional)

Sauté pork, onion and garlic in large skillet with lard. Squeeze tomatoes through fingers and add with juice. Add oregano and salt. Add chilies and simmer over low heat at least 35 minutes or as long as all day, if celebrating. Add water as necessary. Add beans, or serve with beans on the side. Makes 4 to 6 servings.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: proper mexican chilli recipe
From: NicoleC
Date: 24 Jun 03 - 08:02 PM

Ah, yes, chili with pork! Far superior to some old ground beef.

Nicole's Chili Supremacy Meat Ladder:

---- (ah! yes!)
lamb
----
venison
----
pork
---- (very acceptable)
beef
---- (maybe you should make something else with that meat, but in a pinch...))
turkey
----
chicken
---- (better without than with!)
TVP
----
Tofu

Subject: RE: BS: proper mexican chilli recipe
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 24 Jun 03 - 08:41 PM

Someone always argues about the spelling of chile. I was raised in an area where Spanish was common, thus chile. Webster's prefers chili. If you go back to the origin, that is usually rendered chilli (Nahuatl).
It ain't the spelling that's important, it's the taste. If it's good, who cares?

Old Style Enchiladas- not rolled.

Corn tortillas
Chile con carne (meat and chile only, no beans or tomatoes)
Chopped onions
Cheese, old cheddar, grated
Deep fat fry lard.
Sauce if desired.
Medium Hot oven

Deep fat fry tortillas. Lay hot fried tortillas on a flat pan that will hold several. Ladle on steaming chile con carne. Add a layer of grated cheese. Add a layer of chopped onion. Add another fried tortilla. Add another chile-cheese-onion layer.
Put in hot oven until cheese is melted, and serve.

While everyone is eating the first ones out of the oven, they should assist the cook to prepare the next batch.

Serve with frijoles and guacamole on the side, with Dos Equis and/or Corona beer.
Some top the enchilada with a fried egg.

Is Bertha's still operating in Houston?

Subject: RE: BS: proper mexican chilli recipe
From: Ely
Date: 24 Jun 03 - 10:11 PM

New Mexico--who in God's name puts ham in chili?? ;)

I learned that green chili recipe in Colorado, minus the beans. It's fantastic. I'm a wuss, though, and I usually eat it either over rice or over eggs and hash browns. You can't beat chili over eggs and hash browns. Chili with corn bread (real corn bread, not the sweet kind) is a winner, too.

I'm no purist, though--I grew up with beans-and-tomatoes chili in Colorado, then was introduced to meat-and-meat chili in Texas. I like both.

Subject: RE: BS: proper mexican chilli recipe
From: Billy the Bus
Date: 25 Jun 03 - 01:29 AM

Years ago I came across a recipe for 'Vegitarian Chili con Carne'! No meat? Duhhh...

Cheers - Sam

Subject: RE: BS: proper mexican chilli recipe
From: ossonflags
Date: 25 Jun 03 - 11:58 AM

This thread justs get better and better!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: proper mexican chilli recipe
From: artbrooks
Date: 25 Jun 03 - 12:49 PM

BTW, New Mexico is the only state in the US that has an "official state question." It is, and you will get this asked in many restaurants, "red or green?" This refers to the color, flavor and degree of hotness of the chili sauce (and, as Sorcha said, it resembles gravy more than anything else) that you want on your meal. Adventurous souls looking for a challenge reply "Christmas," and get both. Wimps and Texans say "on the side."

Subject: RE: BS: proper mexican chilli recipe
From: catspaw49
Date: 25 Jun 03 - 01:00 PM

Well, while we're at it, let's add in another regional chili recipe known as Cincinnati Style Chili. There are about a zillion joints in Cincy all serving this flavor of chili, the best known being "Skyline Chili." Note the addition of things like nutmeg, cinnamon, cocoa, and allspice. It's an acquired taste, but probably half of the chili I make now is done in this way, I just add a little habanero pepper sauce to mine to give it a bit more kick. The ways of serving "traditionally" in Cincinnati are listed as well below.

Ingredients
2 tbsp oil
2-1/2 pounds ground beef
1 quart cold water
1 (6-ounce) can tomato paste
2 large onions (diced)
1-1/2 tbsp vinegar
1 tsp Lea & Perrin Worcestershire sauce
1 clove garlic (crushed)
2 tbsp chili powder
5 bay leaves
2 tsp cinnamon
2 tsp nutmeg
1 tsp allspice
2 tsp cayenne pepper
1-1/2 tbsp unsweetened cocoa
Salt & pepper to taste


Instructions
In a heavy gauge pot, heat oil, add beef until brown, add onions and water and bring to a boil. Reduce to a simmer and add tomato paste and all other ingredients and let simmer 1-1/2 to 2 hours. Adjust with salt & pepper to taste. Remove bay leaves before serving.

In Cincinnati the true enthusians have their Chili 1 to 5 ways:

1. Plain 2."Two Way" - Spaghetti & Chili
3."Three Way" - Chili, Spaghetti, and Cheddar Cheese
4."Four Way" - Chili, Spaghetti, Cheddar Cheese, and Onions
5."Five Way" - Chili, Spaghetti, Cheddar Cheese, Onions and Kidney Beans


Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: proper mexican chilli recipe
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 25 Jun 03 - 01:54 PM

In my recipe for chile con carne, I gave fresh pork and ham, beef and mutton as possible meat ingredients. I also indicated that the recipes were based on old time Spanish colonial cooking in the northern provinces of Spain in North America. The idea was to indicate that these pioneering settlers used what was available. We have great freedom in our choices.

The use of ham as part of the meat reflects that fresh pork and other fresh meats (I didn't mention venison, bison, hare, etc.) were not always available. Dried meat and cut-up sausage also were used- I haven't tried it, but with proper pre-treatment, the dried meat might be passable.
Try a bit of ham along with the beef or pork sometime - once you have tried it, you may like it.

The "red or green" has meaning in New Mexico (and a couple of places in Arizona that I have tried), where decent green hot chile peppers are raised, especially in the Hatch area. The canned green chili peppers sold in most areas are almost tasteless. Used as a "gravy" over tamales, enchiladas, etc., I like the taste of the green, but the rest of the family prefers red. Some people like thick sour cream on top of this melange. Most restaurants top with melted, oily, second-rate cheddar, which I usually scrape off.

Drift- One morning early in Albuquerque, my daughter feeling queasy and tired of this fare, we looked for a cafe that had "Anglo" food. We looked in several, but all they served were burritos and other Mexican fare. We looked further, and saw the old Posada de Albuquerque hotel. Their fine dining room served "American" as well as the local fare, and we were able to get fresh fruit and hot cereal. I abandoned chile for a light, low-cal breakfast of fruit, an egg, pancakes and real maple syrup, and sausages.

Subject: RE: BS: proper mexican chilli recipe
From: Mrs.Duck
Date: 25 Jun 03 - 02:57 PM

I couldn't care less how traditional, original or otherwise my recipe for chilli con carne is but it tastes good.

1/2 pound minced beef
large onion
several cloves of garlic
2/3 chopped green chillis (seeds removed)
chilli powder to taste (we like it hot but tone down for guests)
tin chopped tomatoes
tomato puree
mixed herbs (parsley sage rosemary thyme bay oregano)
tin red kidney beans
beef stock
2 glasses red wine (1 for the pot and 1 for the cook)

We usually eat it with rice but sometimes with grated cheese and creme fraiche flavoured with lime in a tortilla wrap

Subject: RE: BS: proper mexican chilli recipe
From: M.Ted
Date: 25 Jun 03 - 06:06 PM

Talk about the right way to fix chili/chilli/chile seems to generate reactions that make religious and political discussions seem tame--the stories are as good as the recipes, though, and it would be a shame to let the truth get in the way of either a good story or a good meal--Still, here is something to think about concerning San Antonio's Military Plaza(note that "Chili and Beans" are served:

San Antonio in the nineteenth century is well known for the "Chili Queens" that sold chili con carne from their chili stands at the plaza. An authoritative early account is provided in an article published in the July 1927 issue of Frontier Times Magazine. In the article, San Antonio Commissioner Frank H. Bushick reminisces about the Chili Queens and their origin at Military Plaza before they were moved to Market Square in 1887.

According to Bushick, "The chili stand and chili queens are peculiarities, or unique institutions, of the Alamo City. They started away back there when the Spanish army camped on the plaza. They were started to feed the soldiers. Every class of people in every station of life patronized them in the old days. Some were attracted by the novelty of it, some by the cheapness. A big plate of chili and beans, with a tortilla on the side, cost a dime. A Mexican bootblack and a silk-hatted tourist would line up and eat side by side, [each] unconscious or oblivious of the other."

The Chili Queens and their stands became famous well beyond the city limits of San Antonio, and were known even outside of Texas. According to Bushick, a sign in front of a booth at the Chicago World's Fair in 1893 invited hungry visitors to "The San Antonio Chili Stand."

Copyright © 1999 Lone Star Junction

Subject: RE: BS: proper mexican chilli recipe
From: curmudgeon
Date: 25 Jun 03 - 06:26 PM

My former wife and her family were from East Texas and regarded chlili as "jail food." This was a way to serve meat that would not otherwise be edible. Their recipe was simple:

Take a large chunk of the toughest, cheapest beef you can find. Throw it in a pot of water to which you have added chili powder to taste and boil it down to a paste. You can add cornmeal to thicken if necessary. It was like eating thick spicy gravy, very filling, good though -- Tom

Subject: RE: BS: proper mexican chilli recipe
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 25 Jun 03 - 06:44 PM

The tamale sellers used to be a familiar sight in New Mexico towns with their large lard pail filled with tamales in corn shucks kept moist and warm with towels. They were much patronized by the shopkeepers and workers in town. Often the sellers were old men, grandfathers, etc., who no longer could do physical labor.
They still are found in La Paz and the San Jose-San Lucas towns of Baja California; I haven't really looked for them in other parts of Mexico.

At Fiesta time in Santa Fe, posole, chile, etc. are sold from booths in the Plaza, but the health watchdogs have banished the street-sellers, and the old town center has been taken over by tourist-oriented and upscale shops and hotels. The old sense of community is gone.

Subject: RE: BS: proper mexican chilli recipe
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 25 Jun 03 - 08:48 PM

You must go to Chimayo, New Mexico, home of a sacred shrine. And there you will also find holy chilis in wreaths, clumps, etc. I always wanted some. They are blessed I think. mg

Subject: RE: BS: proper mexican chilli recipe
From: Sorcha
Date: 25 Jun 03 - 09:30 PM

Well, originally, Chile was an Aztec food, not 'Mexican'. If you prefer the term 'soup' to 'gravy' OK with me. Mole (chile, chocolate, peanutbutter sauce) is an Aztec dish. Served over chicken or turkey with rice.

Real green chile (made with New Mexico/Anaheim green chiles) goes well with pork and chicken, but beef prefers the red. I've got loads of great recipes if anybody is interested. Lived in New Mexico a few years and green chile seems to be one of the things that any one who has ever lived there takes away with them. Green Chile Rellenos are super!

Subject: RE: BS: proper mexican chilli recipe
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 25 Jun 03 - 10:10 PM

Chimayo is the original home of a variety of chile, medium hot, now more widely grown, that we use exclusively. We bought 10 pounds of the pure chile powder (molido) there last year (Ortega's shop) because it is cheaper than in Canada where we live now. Also bought a ristra (the string of sun-dried chile) for decoration. The dried chile may be pulped and used but (as I noted before) use gloves if you are sensitive. Don't wipe the sweat off your brow with chile-covered hands!

In most of the Spanish colonial villages (Chimayo dates to about 1680) the crops were blessed but the produce sold is not considered "holy." Visitors should look for the old part of the village, built out of adobe, around a square in fortress style. Partly in ruins and partly used, it is, I believe, the only one left in New Mexico. Some of the locals try to discourage visitors, much to the despair of the family trying to run a B & B at one corner of the little square, and a little grocery on another corner.

Chimayo chile is available from specialty stores (one in western Canada where I live) and by mail order (of course in New Mexico, many grocery stores have it).
Try NMcoffee and enter chile in Search. Then click on dried ground chile (NOTE: enter chili and you get the answer that there are "no products that contain chili"). There are other sources in Google that may be better, I have not tried any of them.

Subject: RE: BS: proper mexican chilli recipe
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 25 Jun 03 - 10:24 PM

Sorcha, the green chiles sold here under the name Anaheim have nothing like the flavor of the chile peppers we used to get in New Mexico. I am sure that you get a better product down in the States than the wimpy stuff sold under that name in the Safeways here.
We use some of the green chile powder from New Mexico, but it is expensive and a poor second choice to fresh peppers.
A couple of websites offer cans of New Mexico chile peppers but won't send to Canada. Only the "mild" is sold in cans here and it is without taste. Oh, well, such is life.

Subject: RE: BS: proper mexican chilli recipe
From: Sorcha
Date: 25 Jun 03 - 10:34 PM

Of course not. Look for Las Cruces #9, Chimayo, NuMex, Big Jim. We are fortunate to have a local grower so that we don't have to grow them ourselves. Med hot, and realllll good. Got Chimayo rojo molido too, from a friend who goes every few years. Love the damn stuff.

Subject: RE: BS: proper mexican chilli recipe
From: NicoleC
Date: 25 Jun 03 - 10:42 PM

My goodness. This time of year, the produce sections here are positively bursting with all kinds of peppers I can't even identify. I suspect the ones you are getting in your local grocery store are picked to soon and too old by the time they reach you. Can you grow your own? Some mature very fast. I've been told that these guys have excellent seed.

Maybe you need a care package of whole dried peppers from someone in luckier climes :) They'll go stale slower than ground, and keep practically forever in the freezer.

Subject: RE: BS: proper mexican chilli recipe
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 25 Jun 03 - 11:11 PM

Never seen dried green. I think the Canada Dept. Agriculture would require me to have a license to import fresh produce. Can't grow the peppers here (Zone 3) but some come in from British Columbia to markets in the fall. Some have nice flavor, but they ain't the right kind.
Another memory - Roasting fresh green chiles on top of the stove produced the most wonderful odor.

Subject: RE: BS: proper mexican chilli recipe
From: Sorcha
Date: 26 Jun 03 - 12:50 AM

I can get dried green jalepeno powder--want some? Or, I could try dehydrating some of my fresh ones from my local grower. Never tried before because I didn't need to........have LOTS of pureed paste in the freezer, willing to try.

Subject: RE: BS: proper mexican chilli recipe
From: artbrooks
Date: 26 Jun 03 - 07:04 AM

GUEST,Q: if you want to e-mail me a name and address at [e-mail], maybe we can set something up.

Subject: RE: BS: proper mexican chilli recipe
From: Bill D
Date: 26 Jun 03 - 01:15 PM

"...The tamale sellers used to be a familiar sight in New Mexico towns "

Q..you remind me of the tamale vendors in Sallisaw, Okla. in the mid-1940s...little carts like ice cream wagons with the corn-husk tamales in layers inside...must have cost, oh, 15¢..(Ice cream bars were 6¢!)

Subject: RE: BS: proper mexican chilli recipe
From: Kim C
Date: 26 Jun 03 - 05:23 PM

When I was a kid and my mom made what she called "chili," it was more like a soup with ground beef, beans, and - curses - spaghetti. Several years ago in Nashville we had a place called Empress Chili, which served "Cincinnati style chili." It was nice and thick and had cinnamon in it, and was often served over spaghetti. It was good. It was great on a hot dog.

I like beans, but I prefer them not in my chili. I don't presume to know what "real" chili is or is not, I only know the way I like it best. When my friend Vernell, who is fron Texas, makes chili, there's no tomatoes and no beans. When I make chili, I toss in a can of diced tomatoes, just because I happen to like them.

Subject: RE: BS: proper mexican chilli recipe
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 26 Jun 03 - 05:47 PM

We have something which we call hamburger soup- hamburger, chopped vegetables including onions, garlic, bay leaf, canned broth, often pot barley, etc. We often add some chile because we like the flavor.

A real quicky main course- Pinto beans, not cooked to mush, are available in cans under the label Eden Organic, Eden Foods, Clinton MI. (Other brands we have tried are not as flavorful).
Empty a can of beans (or two) in a pot. Put in left-over roast, cooked ham, etc. cut-up. Add some red chile, oregano, and garlic. Add a little water and heat. Serve with chopped onion and grated cheese, which one can add according to taste. Serve with a good bread or whatever. Not the real chile con carne y frijoles, but cheap, filling and almost as good.

Subject: RE: BS: proper mexican chilli recipe
From: Sorcha
Date: 26 Jun 03 - 10:57 PM

We had a tamle seller w/pushcart in Winfield as late as the mid '60's. His name was Jim....I remember him well.....wow, good tamales.

Subject: RE: BS: proper mexican chilli recipe
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 26 Jun 03 - 11:24 PM

More thread creep- I never have had a bad tamale from a street vendor, either in NM, CO or in Mexico. I mentioned San Lucas in Baja- I was with a tour party off a cruise ship and we stopped in the little plaza so they could buy trinkets. I bought a tamale from the vendor there and it was good. I think everyone expected me to come down with Montezuma's revenge, or at least Pancho Villa's hop, but no problems.
My only genuine case of food poisoning was obtained in NYC.

Subject: RE: BS: proper mexican chilli recipe
From: GUEST,shonagh_lou
Date: 27 Jun 03 - 05:07 PM

Hello, well this is the way I make it over here in Scotland!

300g of mince
1 Onion
Bit of yellow, green and red pepper
Some garlic (depends on how strong you want it!)
Tin of chopped plum tomatoes
Tin of Kidney Beans
Tin of Baked Beans
teaspoon (or more if u want) Cumin
a bit of cinnamon
a good ol' dollop of chilli paste!

As you can see, its a bit of this and a bit of that!! I tend to just make it up as i go along!

Brown the mince, Whizz everything up in the food processor (expect the kidney beans and baked beans) and shove it all in a pan!

Done! and mega fine!

Subject: RE: BS: proper mexican chilli recipe
From: Beccy
Date: 27 Jun 03 - 05:48 PM

I do a half/half mixture of small cubed beef and pork... be sure to use a tougher cut of meat, though, as it's gonna cook for a while. For what it's worth- here's mine:
Ingredients:
2 medium white onions, medium dice
1 red bell pepper, medium dice
1 green pepper, medium dice
1 yellow pepper, medium dice
2 jalepenio peppers, minced
¼ cup oil or bacon fat
3 tablespoons ground cumin
2 tablespoons ground coriander
3 tablespoons of flour
½ teaspoon ground cardamom
3 tablespoons chili powder
1 tablespoon paprika
1 or 2 chipotle peppers packed in adobo, minced (found in cans in Mexican section) (HOT!!!) Do not rinse.
5 cloves of garlic, smashed
1 1/2 pounds of beef chuck, cut into ½ inch cubes
1 1/2 pounds of pork, cut into ½ inch cubes
1 bottle of good dark beer
1 14 oz can diced tomatoes, drained
1 Tbsp. Brown sugar
homemade or canned low sodium chicken broth
salt and pepper to taste
splash of Worcestershire sauce
1 square bakers unsweetened chocolate (I am not joking!!! The Mexicans use it.)
Method:
1. In a heavy pot on medium heat, sauté the onions and peppers in the fat until they begin to soften and smell great ( about 3 min)
2. Add the spices, flour & garlic and continue to cook, stirring constantly for about 1 minute. (This toasts the spices and increases their flavor. It may look like a ruthless paste, don't worry)
3. Add the meat and tomatoes and stir to mix well
4. Add the beer and pour in enough broth to cover the meat by 1 inch
5. Bring to a boil and reduce to a very gentle simmer, simmer for about 2 hours or until the meat is very tender
6. When tender, remove from heat and stir in the chocolate
7. Adjust seasoning with salt and black pepper, TABASCO or any other hot stuff.
Garnishes:
Great with a dollop of sour cream and some chopped onion. Also great with fresh chopped cilantro or scallions. Avoid beans, they take flavor away and make you unpopular. Also great served with rice.
It is very important to use tough, inexpensive cuts of meat like shoulder or chuck. Using tender and expensive meat makes for a terrible chili (make a day ahead if possible)

Subject: RE: BS: proper mexican chilli recipe
From: Sorcha
Date: 27 Jun 03 - 06:32 PM

Shonagh, baked beans and kidney beans in chile soup? Sacrilige! And mince even------ick.

Subject: RE: BS: proper mexican chilli recipe
From: Beccy
Date: 02 Jul 03 - 12:12 PM

Hey Shonagh... thread creep alert... I saw a special on foodtv the other day about food in Scotland and they said something about deep-fried Mars Bars. Is that true????? How does one do that? Is it eaten with a fork or just picked up and munched upon? Please tell me- I'm fascinated (and kinda hungry :-)

Beccy

Subject: RE: BS: proper mexican chilli recipe
From: GUEST,Ron Olesko
Date: 02 Jul 03 - 12:18 PM

I have not seen the Mars bars, but I have tried the deep fried Oreo's. They are covered in batter and then fried, and I imagine that the Mars bars are done the same.   Surprisingly they aren't bad.   You pick them up and eat them like hot cookies.

Subject: RE: BS: proper mexican chilli recipe
From: Beccy
Date: 02 Jul 03 - 12:55 PM

Anyone know what kind of batter they use? Is it a tempura type deal or egg/cornflake concoction????? I'm getting hungier (and it's not nice to make a pregnant lady wait on food.)

Beccy

Subject: RE: BS: proper mexican chilli recipe
From: GUEST,Ron Olesko
Date: 02 Jul 03 - 01:15 PM

When I had them it was a cake like batter, tempura-like but sweeter.

Subject: RE: BS: proper mexican chilli recipe
From: GUEST,pdc
Date: 03 Jul 03 - 01:07 AM

Neat thread!!

Subject: RE: BS: proper mexican chilli recipe
From: Kim C
Date: 03 Jul 03 - 01:19 PM

Tamales. Now you're talking!

Subject: RE: BS: proper mexican chilli recipe
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 03 Jul 03 - 05:35 PM

I once ordered a slice of pizza in a Glasgow fish-and-chip shop and before I knew what was happening they dipped it in batter and deep fried it. It was surprisingly good, although I was pissed as a newt at the time.

Subject: RE: BS: proper mexican chilli recipe
From: Shonagh
Date: 03 Jul 03 - 07:25 PM

Aye our local chippy has stopped doing them now though, apparently it mucks up the batter!! Its just the normal fish batter they use for doing it. the chocolate kinda melts as does the nougat bit and the caramal stuff goes all gooey, its sooo yummy, although tastes a wee bit fishy.....yummy all the same!!

Subject: RE: BS: proper mexican chilli recipe
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 05 Jul 03 - 01:18 PM

Chocolate pizza? ... hmm ... ;o)

Subject: RE: BS: proper mexican chilli recipe
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 05 Sep 07 - 11:49 PM

Genuine Chimayó chile, grown for 350 years near this village in northern New Mexico, is available from the Native Hispanic Institute, Marie P. Campos, Santa Fe, for $15 per 5oz. package of ground red, $12 per pkg. if 12 or more are ordered.
The website is interesting and worth a visit.
Authentic Chimayó Chile

The State of New Mexico has acted to protect the name. There are imitations grown elsewhere, using inauthentic strains.

Two other sources for this unique chile are listed at this website, both located in Chimayó.

Subject: RE: BS: proper mexican chilli recipe
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 05 Sep 07 - 11:52 PM

Sorry- forgot the www.
Authentic Chimayó Chile

Subject: RE: BS: proper mexican chilli recipe
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 06 Sep 07 - 12:02 AM

Their emails have an incorrect link!
Chimayo Chile

(If that doesn't work- aaarrgh! Don't think I have seen a http://home. ... before).

Subject: RE: BS: proper mexican chilli recipe
From: GUEST,pattyClink
Date: 06 Sep 07 - 10:42 AM

This is a heck of a thread. I have 2 small contributions to make.

1. I think there should be a federal law forbidding Cincinnatians from calling their Hamburger Helper "Chili".

2. A good affordable source of good "New Mexico Red" chili powder is the Pinon Coffee Co in New Mexico. When you make chili, use half 'standard' chili powder (which has some misc. seasonings in with the chili), and half "NM Red".

NM Pinon Coffee Co

Subject: RE: BS: proper mexican chilli recipe
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 06 Sep 07 - 11:17 AM

The Hatch chiles have been out for a couple of weeks now, and you can smell them being roasted in parking lots across the southwest. I bought a pound of them to make into green chile stew last week. I am not a zealot, I don't buy pounds and pounds to freeze to use through the year, but there are a lot of folks who are and who do just that.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: proper mexican chilli recipe
From: bobad
Date: 06 Sep 07 - 11:41 AM

For those in Canada, Chimayo chile powder can be ordered from Chilly Chiles at $4.95 per 100 gm.

Subject: RE: BS: proper mexican chilli recipe
From: DougR
Date: 06 Sep 07 - 01:23 PM

I like my ribs dry, and my chili without beans. I can tolerate tomatoes in my chili though. Hatch chilies are the very best.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: proper mexican chilli recipe
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 06 Sep 07 - 02:30 PM

Much mislabeled 'chimayo' chile powder out there- most of it is Hatch chile, also New Mexican, but not the genuine strains, which were developed over almost 300 years in isolation, and available on the market only in small quantities. This chile is grown at approx. 7000 feet altitude.
The State of New Mexico has acted to control the name, but without costly legal actions, it may be a long time before the name is protected.

The Native Hispanic Institute sells the rare strain. Galeria Ortega of Chimayo (not California) and Trujillo's Weaving of Chimayo sell Chimayo chile with the unique medium hot flavor. The first two ship to Canada as well as to the States.

The correct link will get their addresses. But here it is again:
Genuine Chimayo

Galeria Ortega also has a website:
Galeria Ortega
A map showing the location of Chimayo is at their website. Their 'chimayo' is much cheaper; I don't know its purity, but it is quite good.

Subject: RE: BS: proper mexican chilli recipe
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 06 Sep 07 - 02:45 PM

For green chile, that from Hatch is the best I have found. Here in Canada, I have been unable to get the fresh green Hatch, but green chile powder made with their chile, or the chiles packed in jars, are fair substitutes that I use in making posole, etc. (I always receive a couple of broken jars in a shipment if the postoffice is used).

Way up above, I gave recipes for New Mexico chile and chile con carne (never made with beans) although pinto beans are often served on the side.

Subject: RE: BS: proper mexican chilli recipe
From: GUEST,pattyClink
Date: 06 Sep 07 - 09:57 PM

Could somebody rename this thread so it will come up on a search during some cold month when we are searching for chili (not chilli) recipes?

Subject: RE: BS: proper mexican chilli recipe
From: Sorcha
Date: 06 Sep 07 - 10:30 PM

I still have almost 3 POUNDS of real Chimayo red powder. Several pounds of local (prob. Numex or Big Jim) green paste in the freezer.

Fresh Hatch greens have just hit the markets here, I NEED a bushel or 2....but I'm laid up.

Yes, I'm a zealot. The New Year (starts on Halloween for me) is NOT allowed to start without a large stash of green paste in the freezer.

I counted a while back and I have at least 14 different kinds of red chile, both ground and in pods. Whenever I run across a new to me kind of molido red, I buy it. (red keeps just fine in the freezer too, in air tight, water tight zip loc bags)

A while back I was looking for a Las Cruces #6 red (never did find it, but #9 is common) and I ran across a site that had green chile powder. Can I find it now? Of course not.

When I make red chili/e soup, (which by the way, isn't really Mexican, it's Tex Mex, or just plain Tex) I use 4 diff kinds of molido red. Usually California sweet, New Mexico med-warm (both Mojave brand), Gebharts' (brand name) and pasilla. Sometimes I'll add a bit (bit for me ==about a teaspoon) of chipotle.

Howsomever, pure chipotle powder is darn hard to find and expensive when you do. My friend had difficulties finding it even in New Mexico, but I finally have a fairly large stash.

Ref Chipotle--there are 2 kinds, both more often found in dried pod form. One, the cheaper and not so good kind, is yellowish, the really GOOD stuff is a dark red but not as brownish as either ancho or pasilla.

If you are in DIRE need of chipotle, buy a can of it in adobo sauce. Rinse off the sauce, and dry the pods slowly in the oven overnight. (If you want powder, otherwise just mince or paste the chile pieces)

Place in a small blender, spice grinder, or coffee bean grinder.

Ah, chile, the food of the Gods

Sorch, the Chile Head


PS--Appetizer/starter/munchie to die for--melt some Monterrey Jack cheese in micro or double boiler. Swirl some chipotle powder on top and barely stir. Serve with white corn chips (a la Tostitos)

Subject: RE: BS: proper mexican chili recipe
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 06 Sep 07 - 10:56 PM

A tough one, PaddyClink-
Webster's Collegiate Dictionary heads their entry "chili or chile or chilli." From Nahuatl Chilli (Spanish spelling of 1604).

In Velasquez "Spanish and English Dictionary," the entry is under 'chile'.

In the dictionary of the Royal Academy of Spain it is 'chile'. "Diccionario de la Lengua Española." The origin is given as Nahuatl chilli.
It also lists names of the major varieties. A chilero or chilera is one who cultivates or sells chiles.

In Hispanic New Mexico it is usually 'chile' but no no one will bite you if you spell it 'chili'.


Mexican Avocados are plentiful now; excellent as a side dish if mixed with green chile (to taste), fresh or powdered, and a little salt.

Subject: RE: BS: proper mexican chili recipe
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 06 Sep 07 - 11:10 PM

I have a stash of Chimayó, which I picked up the last time I was in Chimayó, but my offspring are always begging. Won't be long before I must refresh.

A local food specialist sells both Chimayó and good red chipotle; the former, however, comes from fields around San Juan pueblo (Ohkay Owingeh), very good but not the real thing.

Subject: RE: BS: proper mexican chili recipe
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 06 Sep 07 - 11:51 PM

Sorcha, red chipotle- powder or whole at Los Chileros de nuevo mexico.

Chipotle

Main website: www.888eatchile.com

Haven't bought anything from them for some time, but their product was good then. As you say, expensive- $5.60/3oz or $17.00 per pound, which isn't bad.
I used to get blue corn from them for posole, but they no longer carry it.

Subject: RE: BS: proper Mexican chili recipe
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 07 Sep 07 - 12:19 AM

Here I live in Texas and you folks in far-flung areas on the continent are making me hungry. I guess I ought to go shopping. :-)

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: proper mexican chili recipe
From: Sorcha
Date: 07 Sep 07 - 12:46 AM

LOL, Maggie. Thanks, Q, I have a pretty good stash just now, but I'll mark the site for Justin.

Subject: RE: BS: proper mexican chili recipe
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 07 Sep 07 - 02:04 PM

One summer evening I was outside listening to the kids at play. The group included two Hispanic boys, maybe 9 and 10. Suddenly the younger one noticed the failing light and gave a cry of dismay.

"We forgot to go home for supper!" (This clearly meant Big Trouble.)

But the older boy reassured him. "Don't worry, we didn't have to go home. It's just chili."

===
I hope this little story will help people keep chili in perspective.

Subject: RE: BS: proper mexican chili recipe
From: bobad
Date: 07 Sep 07 - 02:35 PM

Canadian source forChipotle powder plus many more dried peppers. These people know their products.

Subject: RE: BS: proper mexican chili recipe
From: Sorcha
Date: 07 Sep 07 - 03:11 PM

Q, I assume you want whole, dried blue corn? If I can find some around here, you want a shipment? (Lots of Mexicans live here, and lots of migrants in the summer)

Subject: RE: BS: proper mexican chili recipe
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 07 Sep 07 - 05:00 PM

Thanks, Sorcha, but in the meantime I have found a source for blue corn. Hopi blue corn and tepary beans (preferred by many, but uncommon outside of the southwest). Blue corn

bobad, where is that chile source located? Their description does not indicate whether the Chimayo is from strains raised at Chimayo, or of the type but not the original strains.
There is a difference; also I wish to support those who qualify for the controlled name.

Subject: RE: BS: proper mexican chili recipe
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 07 Sep 07 - 05:02 PM

Where did you find the tepary beans? Do you have a link?

Subject: RE: BS: proper mexican chili recipe
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 07 Sep 07 - 05:27 PM

Tepary at the blue corn link, above. They have several items in their sales list.

Subject: RE: BS: proper mexican chili recipe
From: bobad
Date: 07 Sep 07 - 08:15 PM

Q, this is their home page. I have met and bought from these people many times and can tell you that they are very knowledgeable and approachable and would be happy to answer any queries you might have. Their email address is on their home page.

Subject: RE: BS: proper mexican chili recipe
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 07 Sep 07 - 08:59 PM

I have emailed them, but the way it is advertised- (New Mexican (Chimayo) powder)- suggests that it is of the type but not from Chimayo. I will post their answer.

I am sure that it is good chile, but I want strains from Chimayo growers.

Subject: RE: BS: proper mexican chili recipe
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 07 Sep 07 - 10:24 PM

Sorry I missed that. I have my web browser set so that it doesn't underline links unless I mouse over them. It means the page is a lot less cluttered, but sometimes I miss the little links embedded in the text.

A friend of mine was married to the famous ethnobotanist Gary Paul Nabhan for a while back in the 1990s. She has a funny story about tepary beans. A food writer from the New York Times was travelling all the way out to where they were living at the time, in a remote national monument, to interview Gary and to sample some of the native foods he used to cook. My friend wasn't a gourmet by any means, and had lived in the desert and out of cans most of her life. So when she noticed that the pot of beans in the fridge was pretty low she opened a can of Van Camp's and mixed them in to extend the batch (not realizing who it was who was coming to dinner). The way she tells the story, when she put the pot on the table the expressions on Gary's and the writer's faces were priceless. :)

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: proper mexican chili recipe
From: bobad
Date: 08 Nov 07 - 02:17 PM

Q, I was at the shop of the people I directed you to re. the Chimayo chili and asked Alison if she had any info. She said he hadn't yet heard back from her supplier and said she would send off another e-mail to them which, she informed me by e-mail, has been done, so hopefully you might hear something soon.

I purchased a packet of the Chimayo she sells and am looking forward to trying it.

Subject: RE: BS: proper mexican chili recipe
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 08 Nov 07 - 05:32 PM

bobad, Allison has kindly kept me up to date on her inquiries to her chili supplier. She has an amazing variety of condiments.

Coincidentally, my wife just asked me if I would like tepary beans tonight. She made up a quantity 2-3 weeks ago and froze batches of about 2-meal size. Tepary beans are rapidly becoming our favorite and are moving pintos to second place.
I have to go to the neighborhood store and get sourdough bread, we have blue corn nachos but I prefer sourdough as a mop. And an avocado-

Subject: RE: BS: proper mexican chili recipe
From: pdq
Date: 05 May 08 - 03:40 PM

Rather than divert the "baked beans" thread...

...can anyone help out with a good formula for chili powder?

I keep trying various combinations of cumin. paprika, garlic powder, turmeric, ceyanne pepper, salt and fine grind pepper. Some combinations are better than other but none is really great.

I have learned to leave out coriander and Mexican oregano as they both taste a bit like dried powdered lawn clippings.

Subject: RE: BS: proper mexican chili recipe
From: bobad
Date: 05 May 08 - 03:49 PM

Authentic chile is made using either rehydrated dried chiles or ground, dried chiles in the form of powder. For my taste the best I have had is Chimayo chile powder recommended by Q in earlier thread posts to this thread. He has also provided a recipe that is worth trying out, it has become the basis for my chile recipe.

Subject: RE: BS: proper mexican chili recipe
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 05 May 08 - 03:59 PM

Do get the Chimayo chilies...they are blessed by a saint or pope or something..you can see them hanging in churchyards etc in Chimayo. mg

Subject: RE: BS: proper mexican chili recipe
From: pdq
Date: 05 May 08 - 04:52 PM

...from the "baked beans" thread:

"Subject: RE: BS: Baked beans
From: MMario - PM
Date: 05 May 08 - 03:29 PM

I'd experiment with different powdered chile peppers rather then the paprika and cayenne. and ditch the turmeric.

see this site: New Mexico chili for an example - it uses 4 varieties of dried chile's."



I'm not sure that turmeric isn't a good choice. It gives the chili powder a slightly bitter after taste that nothing else seems to. It is also adds the yellowish color to various dishes as well as imparting a complexity.

The absolute essential ingrediant is cumin which has the unique musty flavor.

Good quality garlic powder is also essential.

Cayenne is a powdered hot pepper, and it or one of its close relatives is a must for hot chili.

Other ingrediants (in the powder, not the chili itself) seem to be a matter of opinion.

Subject: RE: BS: proper mexican chili recipe
From: GUEST,pattyClink
Date: 05 May 08 - 04:52 PM

I didn't see "ground red chili" in your recipe, cayenne is kind of a different animal. That's the base, all the rest is trim. Get a good quantity of "New Mexico Red" (or Chimayo or whatever) dried ground chilis, and build your blend upon that.

For good chili con carne, I like to use half commercial "chili powder" which has all that extra stuff, and half straight ground red chili powder. For what it's worth. Everybody's got a personal preference.

Subject: RE: BS: proper mexican chili recipe
From: Sorcha
Date: 05 May 08 - 05:16 PM

Sorry, but I gotta grin out of this. I don't use a commercial mix at all, I start from dried chiles and make my own powders and then add the rest of the 'stuff' to taste.

I beg your pardon...cumin is NOT essential! Never used tumeric in chile soup either. I can't stand it and never use it in chile soup. What I do use is ground ancho, pasilla, chipotle, Hatch red, and New Mexico or California sweet. My liquid is mostly beef broth, very little tomato sauce/juice and sometimes none at all.

For a general all purpose pure ground red chile, try Gebharts if you can get it. Not sure exactly what it is, but I'm betting a red 'New Mexico' type.

I also put beans in mine....don't tell, they'd banish me I know! I use canned, drained black beans and pinto beans.

If you really want to use a 'mix' there are several good ones. Williams is pretty good, and so is Chugwater but I don't know how far away from Wyoming the Chugwater is marketed.

Subject: RE: BS: proper mexican chili recipe
From: artbrooks
Date: 05 May 08 - 05:33 PM

Huh...one can of Stagg chili (hot with beans), one can of Wolf chili (without beans), two glops of whatever kind of salsa you have hanging around (avoid the one with the green fuzzy stuff in it), a scant handful of frozen corn, an onion (diced), last night's leftover steak, heat and serve. Feeds two.

Subject: RE: BS: proper mexican chili recipe
From: pdq
Date: 05 May 08 - 05:37 PM

I was assuming that paprika (or similar red chile) was the bulk ingrediant, at least implied. It seems to be half to three fourths of the bulk in many recipes.

Nice to see the other suggestions for some other varieties that are not so blah as paprika. Fresh probably helps here. Other essential ingrediants, not red chile powder, give the character.

I cannot see making clili without beans or tomatoes.

Subject: RE: BS: proper mexican chili recipe
From: Slag
Date: 05 May 08 - 06:50 PM

Hmmm. I never read a chili recipe when I first made chili. I just put in what I figured might be in some of the better chillies I had eaten. After a lot of trial and air (air, AIR! I need AIR!) this is what I came up with:

Get a good 5 pound rump roast, well marbled with fat and roast it until it is falling apart tender. Take out what you want for roast beef sandwiched and refrigerate the same. In the drippings, stir in about a half cup of mazza harina (stone ground, if you can get it) flour and brown. Add your choice of ground chili peppers. There's no end to heat so you have to go with what you can tolerate.* Dice up a nice fresh yellow onion and a clove or two of garlic. Add a healthy three fingered pinch of Cumin and a tiny pinch of Fennel, salt to taste stir back in the roast (now shredded) cover and slow cook. Add water occasionally if needed. Let it cook for at least 2 hours but not over 4 because, for some reason, it starts to go bad on you, taste-wise. Under no circumstances are you to put oregano in it. This is a crime against chili and anyone who does it should have their immigration status checked! Yep, it's kind of a simple recipe but it is very edible and really delicious.**

*Funny thing about making chili, you can start off in the morning using a pretty mild ground or powdered pepper and you sort of get acclimatised to it. So, you up the chili content and the temp factor, a little. Next taste, you up it a little more and so on. By late afternoon there's a knock at the door and it's a swat team followed by the Hazz-Mat boys, all wearing breathing apparatii. Seems neighbors from three blocks away have been complaining about noxious odors and paint peeling from the sides of the house which face in your direction. Now is the time to host that block party you've always meant to do! What? No takers? Well, just enjoy the chili then.

** If someone wants it hotter or wants the taste of Tabasco or (Brrr!) Oregano in their serving, put it on after the fact. Same with salt. I like it salty but it is much easier to add salt than to make more chili in hopes of diluting the overuse of salt.

Subject: RE: BS: proper mexican chili recipe
From: CarolC
Date: 05 May 08 - 07:06 PM

Is it possible to buy seeds for the original Chimayo strain?

Subject: RE: BS: proper mexican chili recipe
From: Sorcha
Date: 05 May 08 - 07:08 PM

Carol, it 'might' be but part of it is the soil and climate there. They just aren't the same if not grown there.

Subject: RE: BS: proper mexican chili recipe
From: pdq
Date: 05 May 08 - 07:47 PM

When buying online, make sure you read the terms of shipping carefully. I looked at a food item a few days back and thought $7.95 was a bargain. The shipping was over $11.00, and the Postal Money order, plus stamp, brought the total to over $20.40.
I did not buy it.

Subject: RE: BS: proper mexican chili recipe
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 05 May 08 - 08:05 PM

The Chimayo strain is closely controlled by the few farmers that raise it. One may buy a ristra of the dried peppers and try the seeds, but the climate and soil must be right. It is not the hardiest of chiles.

See Native Hispanic Institute-
Hispanic
for a bit about the growers and techniques. Email them, sometimes they sell the powder.

See Galeria Ortega,
Ortega ,
for more about one of the original families in Chimayo, and a source for the Chimayo chile powder, 12 oz. for $5.95.

New Mexico red, grown mostly near Hatch, is very good, but not quite the best.

Subject: RE: BS: proper mexican chili recipe
From: Sorcha
Date: 05 May 08 - 08:53 PM

No, you gotta mix the Hatch red with others....but Hatch Green is wonderful! LOL....since I can't seem to find Las Cruces #9 green.....

Oh, the world of chiles.....isn't it an amazing thing?

Subject: RE: BS: proper mexican chili recipe
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 05 May 08 - 09:11 PM

Now for a tourist blurb about Chimayo, where the famous chile is grown.
A very pleasant day may be passed in Chimayo, on the high road from Santa Fe to Taos. In the summer, the little valley is pleasantly warm (about 7500 feet altitude). In the morning visit the Sanctuario de Chimayo, a holy place of pilgimage, especially at Easter, for at least two centuries. The faithful walk to it from all over northern New Mexico. Miraculous cures have been claimed. The high road villages are still home to some of the remaining penitentes (flagellants). The villages of the high road have adobe churches dating back to the 17-18 c.

A lunch (of course local chile, frijoles, posole, etc.) may be had across from the Sanctuario at Leona's.

At the edge of the village, tha remains of the old settlement should be visited. It is a square, protectively walled in by the low adobe dwellings and chapel remains, which date to the 17th c. Now in disrepair, it still is the best-preserved of these original settlements along the Rio Grande corridor. Some residents, including some working at the Galleria Ortega, the main shop for local foods and souvenirs, discourage visitors from seeing it, but they won't bite if you go. At one corner of the square is a little grocery where a cold drink can be obtained.

Reasonably-priced accommodation and excellent southwestern food are available nearby at Rancho de Chimayo. A bed-and-breakfast also is nearby.

Excellent hand-weaving, from blankets to coats,jackets and pillows, available in Chimayo, a center of the art since the first weaver came in the 1720s. - Weavers

Subject: RE: BS: proper mexican chili recipe
From: GUEST,pattyClink
Date: 06 May 08 - 03:36 PM

pdq, you must be working with some mighty hot paprika. around here paprika is thought of as a sweet pepper, not a chile.

Subject: RE: BS: proper mexican chili recipe
From: pdq
Date: 06 May 08 - 06:54 PM

Not exactly. My complaint about common grocery store paprika is the lack of flavor, not that it is hot, which it isn't. The mail order specialty stores really look like the answer. Here is a primer on chile peppers:


                   lots here about the actual chile pepper varieties

Subject: RE: BS: proper mexican chili recipe
From: bobad
Date: 06 May 08 - 07:05 PM

I throw in a few dried chipotle peppers which I soak and chop up. They add a nice smoky note to the chili.

Subject: RE: BS: proper mexican chili recipe
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 06 May 08 - 10:18 PM

Chipotle chile is good for a number of recipes. Chicken flavored with chipotle is excellent. They are a smoked variety of Jalapeno.

Subject: RE: BS: proper mexican chili recipe
From: Bee
Date: 06 May 08 - 11:28 PM

Far, far from the blistering climes where hot chiles grow and glow, in the fog drenched maritimes we make our chile as we imagine it should taste. (But without paprika, pdq, that's sweet and meant for paprikash ;-))

400 gm. meat (more or less) (ground beef, cubed steak or stew meat or chicken - lamb might be good, but is reserved in my house for delicious curries)
1 good sized chopped small onion
couple diced celery sticks
2 smashed garlic cloves
(Start frying those now, in a little oil)
Add ground chile (or a couple nice fresh chile peppers if the grocer has any), tablespoon of cumin seeds, dash (or two inch stick) of cinnamon, a few coriander seds if you got 'em.
(Fry a little longer now, making sure some of the meat is caramelizing a bit on the bottom of the pot)
Now add the marvelous invention canned stewed tomatos already herbed up for chili! (Called 'Accents' here, comes in regular, italian and chili) Simmer and stir, making sure your wooden spoon scrapes the meat bits off the pot. A bit later, add canned red kidney beans - but wait! First, throw the canned beans in a strainer and thoroughly rinse all that glutenous muck off them with cold water! This will make your chili look and taste fresher and lighter.
Now simmer a while and check for heat - add chile to taste - simmer a bit more.
Eat!

Sometimes I add fresh tomatos. Sometimes I sprinkle cheddar on top.

Subject: RE: BS: proper mexican chili recipe
From: pdq
Date: 07 May 08 - 09:50 AM

You sound like a very good cook, Bee.

Ageed about the canned red kidney beans. I dump the contents in a collender and rinse with running tap water until all trace of that strange fluid has gone down the drain. Just the beans, please.

Last time for paprika. I believe it is Hungarian. It is technically a red chile pepper but not a native of the New World. The Hungarians are alleged to do wonderful things with it and probably would not be happy with our US grocery store quality. Still, is specified in a huge number of published chili recipes. Best use real Southwest or Mexican varieties, the fresher the better.

Subject: RE: BS: proper mexican chili recipe
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 07 May 08 - 03:50 PM

Spaw mentioned Cincinnatti Chili. I grew up eating Chili, and I don't think it is a mexican dish at all, frankly. The best I've had came from restaurants in the Cincy-Louisville-Owensboro area. Now, don't get me wrong...I like New Mexican Red Chili and Green Chili as well...its just a different dish than the Cincy style. I learned to make it from my Dad, and have changed the recipe over the years to reflect my taste preferences.

1 lb ground beef
1 lb ground pork
1/2 white onion
2 cloves garlic


Brown this in a pan, being careful to leave the meat moist. Transfer to Chili pot and add 1 tablespoon Cocoa powder. Stir, then pour in 1 can Rotel tomatoes/peppers, 8 oz tomato sauce, and another 8 oz can chopped tomatoes. You can add one small diced jalapeno now if you want. Add maybe a half cup of water to thin viscosity. Then add

1 tablespoon Cumin powder
1 tablespoon Mexene or other Chili Powder
1 chopped green pepper
4 whole cloves or 1/4 tsp cloves powder
1/4 tsp cinnamon
2 bay leaves

Cook this mixture low heat for 2-3 hours, correct seasoning and add some salt to taste. Add one can unflavored and drained pinto beans. Thicken the mixture with 2-3 tablespoons masa flour mixed in 1/4 cup water and stir. Serve as is, or over spaghetti, or with grated cheese and onion on top. Best with saltines, not tortillas, cause it ain't Mexican.
Good the first day, better the second.

Subject: RE: BS: proper mexican chili recipe
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 07 May 08 - 03:51 PM

PS DO NOT use kidney beans!!!

Subject: RE: BS: proper mexican chili recipe
From: Slag
Date: 07 May 08 - 04:47 PM

Just for info, there are about 40 varieties of Paprika ranging from yellow to red and from bland to sweet to fairly hot! Some are very,very expensive!

Subject: RE: BS: proper mexican chili recipe
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 07 May 08 - 06:26 PM

The paprika used in Hungary for paprikosh (sp?), etc., is quite different from the cheaper paprika usually found on the spice shelves, which, I have been told, is of a type known commercially as Spanish. We can get the Hungarian at several stores here, but not in the supermarkets. Nothing wrong with the Spanish, but the flavor is quite different. We have never used it with chile and beans.

Lonesome EJ, the Cincy chile you describe is close to one also made in the southwest with the exception of the cocoa powder- but bitter chocolate is often used in southern Mexico with chiles in all sorts of dishes. There are many 'moles' but mole poblano perhaps is best known. I have had satisfying bowls of 'chili' in Illinois and Seattle and elsewhere that wasn't the true border type, but I won't complain if the dish is tasty and satisfying.

I will add a mole poblano recipe here a little later, for comparison.

Subject: RE: BS: proper mexican chili recipe
From: Bee
Date: 07 May 08 - 09:41 PM

Thanks, pdq. I really like high flavoured cooking with interesting blends and contrasts and have been taught some great recipes by various friends from different cultures over the years.

Yes, for Paprikash you want (well, I want) the sweet flavoured and more expensive Hungarian paprika, since it is the main spice flavour in the dish.

Subject: RE: BS: proper mexican chili recipe
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 07 May 08 - 10:56 PM

Mole poblano is a complicated sauce, it takes a long time to make. Southern Mexican cooking can be very sophisticated, and Mexicans themselves shortcut the process by using store-bought moles. I don't recall it being used with beans- usually with chicken and other meats. I have put this here just for illustration; we have never had it outside of a restaurant.

MOLE POBLANO

4 dried Pasilla chiles
4 dried mulato or New Mexico chiles
1/4 pound ancho chiles
2 medium onions, chopped
2 garlic heads cut in half horizontally
2-4 medium tomatoes, peeled, seeds removed
1/2 pound tomatillos, husked and rinsed
2 tablespoons sesame seeds
1/2 cup peanuts
1/2 cup almonds
2 7-inch corn tortillas
1/4 cup raisins or more
Cinammon stick, 4 inches
1 teaspoon coriander seed
4-8 whole cloves
3 tablespoons oil
2-4 oz. bitter Mexican chocolate (or more, to taste)

Lay chiles in a single layer on a cookie sheet and bake in preheated oven at 300 F. until chiles lightly toasted and are flexible, 5-8 minutes. While still warm, discard stems and shake out the seeds.

Rince chiles and put in large bowl; add 8 cups boiling water and let stand until soft, 30 minutes or so. Drain and save liquid. Puree chiles a bit at a time, in food processor or blender adding 2 cups reserved chile-soaking liquid. Rub firmly through fine strainer into a bowl and discard residue.

Put onions, tomato, tomatillos, garlic (cut side down) on a cookie sheet and bake at 450 F turning occasionally, until the vegatables and tortillas have dark brown spots or edges. Pull off vegetable skins and discard.

Puree vegetable mixture, adding a total of 1 cup reserved chile-soaking liquid. Rub firmly through fine strainer into a bowl and discard residue.

Toast tortillas in a dry frypan over medium heat until they have brown spots; remove. Toast almonds & peanuts in the dry frying pan and set aside. Toast sesame seeds and spices last and remove.

Add oil to frypan. Add nuts, spices & raisins, stirring frequently. Tear up corn tortillas and add to the mixture. Continue cooking 5-10 minutes. Puree this mixture in a food processor or blender, adding remaining chile-soaking liquid.

In a large stockpot, mix the ingredients. Bring to a simmer on medium heat, cover and simmer to blend flavors, at least 2 hours, stirring often.

Chop chocolate, mix with sauce until melted. Use sauce within one week, or freeze. Or can the sauce.

From the net, I have forgotten where.

Subject: RE: BS: proper mexican chili recipe
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 07 May 08 - 11:41 PM

Forgot to list one of the ingredients in that mole poblano- add 1-2 chipotle chiles to the list. Treat as the other chiles.

Subject: RE: BS: proper mexican chili recipe
From: Goose Gander
Date: 08 May 08 - 12:45 AM

I just made a pot of chili, and this time I put in a few dashes of curry powder along with the usual ingredients.

Somehow, it worked.

Subject: RE: BS: proper mexican chili recipe
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 08 May 08 - 02:04 AM

Thanks Q for the mole poblano recipe. I'm gonna try it!

Subject: RE: BS: proper mexican chili recipe
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 08 May 08 - 01:00 PM

Mole recipe- I gave up immediately after reading it! I did get some ideas about chiles and spicing.

Curry in chile (chili)- Here's a recipe from cdkitchen.com

BEEF CHILI CURRY

2 large onions chopped
5 cloves garlic chopped
Piece fresh root ginger, chopped (about 1/2 inch)
3/4 tablespoon red chile powder
1/2 teaspoon ground *tumeric
1 tablespoon ground coriander
1 tablespoon ground cumin
1/2 to 1 pound stewing beef, cubed
3 green chiles, split lengthways
Salt to taste
3 tablespoons oil
Red chiles as garnish

Place half the onions, garlic and ginger in a blender and grind to a fine paste. Add the ground spices to this paste and combine well.
Smear the cubed beef with about half the paste and sprinkle with salt. Leave to marinate for 10-15 minutes. Set the remaining paste aside.
Heat half the oil in a large heavy-base pan and add the remaining chopped onions and the beef. Cook, stirring, for about five minutes. Remove from pan with a slotted spoon and set aside.
Add the remaining oil to the pan and stir-fry the green chiles with the remaining paste for 5-6 minutes over a medium heat.
Return the beef and onions to the pan with about 1/2 cup water.
Cook over a high heat for 3-4 minutes. Add salt and simmer for a further 40 minutes, stirring occasionally and adding more water if necessary.
When beef is cooked, serve with plain boiled rice and garnish with the red chiles.
http://www.cdkitchen.com/recipes/recs/638/Beef-Chili-Curry96582.shtml

This is an American recipe, but the net has a number of East Indian chili-curry recipes. I noticed one with chick peas that looked good. In any case, looking over these recipes shows that almost any combination, if it appeals, probably will taste good.
*tumeric bothers some people.

Added note- with curry, chopped dried apricots, prunes or raisins or a combination will add fruit flavors.

Subject: RE: BS: proper mexican chili recipe
From: pdq
Date: 08 May 08 - 01:12 PM

turmeric - actually, this is a type of ginger root, dried and powdered

coriander - exactly the same thing called 'cilantro' in Mexico; easy to grow at home for leaves

Subject: RE: BS: proper mexican chili recipe
From: Bee
Date: 08 May 08 - 02:28 PM

Coriander seeds taste very different from the plant's leaves (cilantro). The seeds have a lemony element which for me is absent in cilantro.

Subject: RE: BS: proper mexican chili recipe
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 08 May 08 - 04:27 PM

Tumeric- should be spelled turmeric (Curcuma longa), ginger familt as noted above, is an anti-oxidant, used in many Asian remedies, as well as a spice.
In Mexico, coriander is culantro, and usually refers only to the seed. It was brought to Mexico by the Spaniards, who, like the English, got it from the Romans.

Subject: RE: BS: proper mexican chili recipe
From: Sorcha
Date: 08 May 08 - 04:47 PM

And, as stated, coriander is NOT cilantro. Same plant, yes. Cilantro is also called Chinese Parsley. Cilantro is the flavour in the heart of a jawbreaker candy.

Subject: RE: BS: proper mexican chili recipe
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 08 May 08 - 06:09 PM

It depends, Sorcha, cilantro is the name for coriander in Spain and Italy, culantro also Spanish but used mostly in Mexico.
Cooks trying to be fancy often call fresh coriander leaves cilantro in U. S. and Canada, thus causing confusion. The leaves are called coriander in the UK.
The variety of fresh coriander preferred in China has leaves that are less cut, and a different flavor from the variety grown in Mexico. Seeds also vary in size and flavor.
See "The Great Cilantro Coriander Debate, blog by Meg Hourihan:
http://www.megnut.com/2006/05/the-great-cilantro-coriander-debate

She has some interesting recipes at Recipes
The shortcake recipe for use with fruits is good.

Subject: RE: BS: proper mexican chili recipe
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 08 May 08 - 07:09 PM

Varieties of oregano also can be quite different. We use a dried Mexican oregano that we order from New Mexico in chile, etc.
We grow oregano but it is much milder; I dry the leaves and use it with meats. We add a thin layer of crumbled leaves to beef when we broil it. The Mexican is very pungent and is best in recipes where it is cooked.

Subject: RE: BS: proper mexican chili recipe
From: Sorcha
Date: 08 May 08 - 07:44 PM

Yes..ref Oregano....I much prefer true Greek oregano but it is more difficult to come by than the Mexican variety. I think I have some planted for this year...if the cold hasn't killed it.

Marjarom is actually just a much milder form of oregano yet....

Subject: RE: BS: proper mexican chili recipe
From: Bee
Date: 08 May 08 - 11:31 PM

I have a perennial plant called 'Russian' Oregano by the friend who gave me a bit ten years ago. It has a mild oregano-mint flavour, small rounded 'typical' oregano leaves and conical purple or white flower heads, and grows about 60 to 90 cm. tall. It's good for salad, omelets, and pesto type sauces when fresh, but there's no point drying it becasue it loses almost all flavour. It has woody stems, and is invasive if you don't watch it, as it spreads rapidly from the very tough roots out from the central clump.

I've tried to identify it online, since it does not match the description of Russian oregano I've found. In fact, it looks very like a standard Italian type oregano except that the flower heads are looser (stemlets are longer). It has an intense oregano scent , notable if you just brush the plant as you pass, but this does not translate to strong flavour (still good, just need lots). Anyone know this plant?

Subject: RE: BS: proper mexican chili recipe
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 09 May 08 - 12:03 AM

Bee, sounds like the oregano we grow. We grow a large amount in a sunny spot, because the wild bees love the flowers. I have not been able to identify the variety and I have forgotten where we first obtained it some 40 or so years ago. It is perennial, but needs renewing every two-three years from seed or divisions.

Dried Greek oregano is available here in large jars, from Real Canadian Superstore. It is good, but we prefer the Mexican, which seems more aromatic, and has a different flavor. There are 2-3 other species, also growing in Greece and the Mediterranean area.
The Greek is Oreganum vulgare hirtum.
Mexican oregano is an entirely different species of plant, Lippia graveolens.

Two or three other aromatic plants used as herbs or medicines are also called 'oregano,' but they are all unrelated. Not easy to know what you are getting in the herb-medicinal market.

Subject: RE: BS: proper mexican chili recipe
From: pdq
Date: 09 May 08 - 09:57 AM

Interesting that you specify Lippia graveolens as Mexican oregano. That species is actually in family Verbenaceae and is native to Texas and Mexico. That make it a close relative of thyme. The other spices being discussed are all Mint family, now called Lamiaceae.

I find 5 species in Origanum listed, these include the classic oregano and marjoram. However, Greek oregano is probably a sage, genus Salvia.

There are 95 species of Salvia listed, Salvia officinalis being the classic culinary sage or "kitchen sage".

There is no way to get through the confusion when things are marketed under common names and not scientific names. Mexican sage and Mexican oregano are used interchangeably and can refer to Lippia, Origanum, and probably as many as 5 species of Salvia. Seems you need to buy the type you like from the same source each time.

Subject: RE: BS: proper mexican chili recipe
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 09 May 08 - 01:18 PM

The little I know about Mexican oregano comes from this article issued by the Brooklyn Botanic Garden, online at
http://www.bbg.org/gar2/topics/kitchen/2005sp_oregano.html

This particular type of Lippia graviolens in native from Mexico to northern S. Am., and is a small shrub, to 5 feet in height.

That article also has a recipe for Tomato Jalapeno sauce using Mexican oregano that may be worth trying.

The advice from pdq to buy from a known source is good; much mis-information is out there. I gave the container that came with mine to my daughter, but I think the source was Los Chileros de nuevo mexico;
Mexican oregano
where it is listed as Mexican Oregano. I had bought a pound, which lasts a long time, so my memory is clouded as to the source. This source has blue corn posole mix, atole, etc. and many other hard-to-get items. Their powdered green chile is good quality, and the mulato is similar to New Mexico red, and they have a good powdered chipotle as well as the dried peppers. The recipe section is worth a look.

Subject: RE: BS: proper mexican chili recipe
From: pdq
Date: 09 May 08 - 02:07 PM

Well, the L. graveolens spice does appear to be worth looking for and trying, even if it is not going in my personal pot of chili. Sounds nice for chicken or potato salad.


Lippia graveolens Kunth - Mexican oregano (also called Sonoran oregano) is native to the Lower Rio Grande Valley of Texas, as shown by this...

                                                 county map of Texas

Subject: RE: BS: proper mexican chili recipe
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 09 May 08 - 04:12 PM

It is the preferred oregano in New Mexico and Tex-Mex hot recipes, esp with chiles. The Greek is not suited to the SW-Mexican taste. Chimayo and New Mexico red-mulata chiles are mild; the greek would be OK with very hot stuff, which we avoid.

Subject: RE: BS: proper mexican chili recipe
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 23 Mar 10 - 04:01 PM

While this is an almost ancient thread, and it might be questionable whether discussion of WMDs (weapons of maimed digestion) is appropriate here, this is the only thread found by my filter search, so:

India to weaponize world's hottest chili

Nontoxic 'Ghost chili' grenade will function like tear gas¹

The Associated Press
updated 9:03 a.m. CT, Tues., March. 23, 2010

GAUHATI, India - The Indian military has a new weapon against terrorism: the world's hottest chili.

After conducting tests, the military has decided to use the thumb-sized "bhut jolokia," or "ghost chili," to make tear gas-like hand grenades to immobilize suspects, defense officials said Tuesday.

The bhut jolokia was accepted by Guinness World Records in 2007 as the world's spiciest chili. It is grown and eaten in India's northeast for its taste, as a cure for stomach troubles and a way to fight the crippling summer heat.

It has more than 1,000,000 Scoville units, the scientific measurement of a chili's spiciness. Classic Tabasco sauce ranges from 2,500 to 5,000 Scoville units, while jalapeno peppers measure anywhere from 2,500 to 8,000.

"The chili grenade has been found fit for use after trials in Indian defense laboratories, a fact confirmed by scientists at the Defense Research and Development Organization," Col. R. Kalia, a defense spokesman in the northeastern state of Assam, told The Associated Press.

"This is definitely going to be an effective nontoxic² weapon because its pungent smell can choke terrorists and force them out of their hide-outs," R. B. Srivastava, the director of the Life Sciences Department at the New Delhi headquarters of the DRDO said.

Srivastava, who led a defense research laboratory in Assam, said trials are also on to produce bhut jolokia-based aerosol sprays to be used by women against attackers and for the police to control and disperse mobs.

¹ This sounds like an infringment of a patent I had believed was held by one of our regulars.(?)

² On the other hand, references to the patented device never held it to be non-toxic.

John

Subject: RE: BS: proper mexican chili recipe
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 23 Mar 10 - 06:29 PM

I think a waiter served me some of that at an Indian restaurant in Kansas City. I had specifically stated that my food had to be mild, and apparently that made him mad.

People said my dish was the hottest one on the table.

As for the pepper as a weapon, it may be an improvement on a gun, but what does it do to the eyes? What if innocent people, say small children, are in with the terrorists?

We need details.
=======
"This sounds like an infringment of a patent I had believed was held by one of our regulars."

Is this an oblique reference to Spaw's chili recipe?

Subject: RE: BS: proper mexican chili recipe
From: Wesley S
Date: 23 Mar 10 - 06:35 PM

Leeneia - It's not the eyes you have to worry about when you're eating chili. It's a different part of the anatomy altogether - anywhere from four to sixteen hours later.

Subject: RE: BS: proper mexican chili recipe
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 24 Mar 10 - 01:21 PM

"Nontoxic 'Ghost chili' grenade will function like tear gas"

from the post right above mine

Subject: RE: BS: proper mexican chili recipe
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 24 Mar 10 - 03:13 PM

Nothing like chili to give one's system a proper workout.
Far superior to the 'toxic cleansers offered by the current generation of snake oil salesmen.

Subject: RE: BS: proper mexican chili recipe
From: pdq
Date: 20 Nov 11 - 02:13 PM

"... paprika. I believe it is Hungarian. It is technically a red chile pepper but not a native of the New World." - me

wrong...


"Paprika (Chili Pepper) originated in the southern part of Mexico, Central America, and the islands of the Antilles. The European and Asian name of 'paprika' can be traced back to the Greek-Latin 'peperi'-'piper' expressions, meaning 'pepper'. The Hungarian word, 'paprika' is a diminutive version of the Slav(ic) expression, 'papar'.

We can talk about two distinct ways of the Paprika's dispersion in Europe. First, it was Christopher Columbus who is said to have brought with him a type of pepper, which was chillier than the Caucasian type. Paprika was a domesticated plant among the Native American people, thus the explorers named it 'Indian pepper'. Due to its outstanding adaptability, this tropical plant got acclimatized to the very different climate and conditions. From Spain it was introduced to Southern France and England, and it soon became Europe's favorite decorative houseplant. In Hungary it was also used for decoration, first. In 1570, it was mentioned in Margit Széchy's garden as 'red Turkish pepper', and in 1579, the French botanist, Clusius introduced it into the garden of Boldizsár Batthyányi as well.

Second, the use of paprika as a spice was spread by the Turks in the 18th century. They brought it to the Balkan Peninsula first, and later to Hungary. The first Hungarian records about its cultivation originate from the Kalocsa and Szeged region. The dry climate of the riverbanks of the Great Plains, the longer hours of sunshine, and the special soil resulted in the development of the characteristic Hungarian paprika, which surpasses the original pepper types with its fiery redness, its taste and special aroma.

Quite a bit of time passed before the local, Hungarian cookbooks mentioned the paprika. Its use spread among the everyday people first (herdsmen, fishermen, and the peasantry). They applied it both as a spice and as an herb. In the 17th century, paprika was already used as a medicine to cure the Epidemic Typhus (Morbus Hungaricus) decimating the population of the swampy regions of the Hungarian Great Plains. In his 1775 garden guide, "Új füves és virágos magyar kert" (New Hungarian Garden of Herbs and Flowers) József Csapó described paprika as a "very strong instrument /sic/, which really pumps up people's blood". Truly, paprika has a significant medicinal value. It is one of the richest sources of vitamin C – even in ground form – and as a spice, it increases the appetite, and it contributes to digestion. The crystalline capsaicin extracted from the paprika is used as a basis for medication for the treatment of arthritis as well as for creams and ointments to relieve minor aches and pains.

Paprika gained ground speedily, and it soon became one of the most distinctive spices of the Hungarian cuisine."

Subject: RE: BS: proper mexican chili recipe
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 20 Nov 11 - 03:21 PM

Dunno what paprika (current sense of the spice) has to do with chili, but pdq's explanation of the Hungarian usage is interesting.

Much paprika in the U. S. is rooted in the Spanish variety (I think the Hungarian is most flavorful).

The best chili? A good southwestern red or green chili pepper (such as New Mexico Hatch or Chimayo heirloom), with other spices and a good meat, slowly cooked. Beans either included (Chili con frijoles), or separately prepared.
Perhaps some root vegetables with the beans.

Exact recipe to your taste and not anyone else's.

Subject: RE: BS: proper mexican chili recipe
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 20 Nov 11 - 03:31 PM

I add a square of dark chocolate to my chili.

Tasted a delish veggie chili not long ago that had butternut squash in it.

Subject: RE: BS: proper mexican chili recipe
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 20 Nov 11 - 04:23 PM

New Mexico style red chile is, like green chile, different than the "Chili" I grew up eating. Proper Mexican Chile would be the sort of thing Brits would ask about, I think, and would likely be more of a Texas, New Mexico, or Cincinnatti chili stew. "True Mexican chile" would be less of a stew than any of the above, although it would be interesting to hear from Mexican what a chili stew would be like in Mexico City or Veracruz.

Subject: RE: BS: proper mexican chili recipe
From: GUEST,Wesley S
Date: 20 Nov 11 - 04:46 PM

I've started adding a quarter cup of ground coffee to my batches of chili. I don't remember where I heard about it but it works well.I like the flavor is adds.

Subject: RE: BS: proper mexican chili recipe
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 20 Nov 11 - 04:49 PM

Mexican chili involves soaking the dried chilis (you can buy big plastic bags of them down here in Texas and throughout the southwest and probably in Mexican markets around the U.S.). The skins and seeds are removed and the chilis are cooked and seasoned but in Mexico the dish "chile" doesn't have beans or meat, unless it is added (Chili con carne, or con frijoles). I think Rick Bayless made this sort on one of his programs several years ago.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: proper mexican chili recipe
From: Bert
Date: 20 Nov 11 - 10:33 PM

A proper chile recipe is stew with chile powder in it, but as Q says Chimayo chile is great.

Subject: RE: BS: proper mexican chili recipe
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 19 Sep 14 - 07:05 PM

I revived this thread to post a good chile con carne recipe, but I see I already had posted it 24 June 03.
AN IMPORTANT DIFFERENCE- we can no longer eat it "hot" with a lot of chile. Pure chile powder, one to two teaspoons to a large pot is plenty for us, but much more of the store "chili powder" mixtures can be used because they are mostly filler.
The recipe includes comino (cumin) and oregano, important to good flavor.
We simplify by using only one kind of meat.
Garlic seems to be available now only in a mild form, so we use several cloves.
Pitted halved pitted black olives smooths out the taste.

Subject: RE: BS: proper mexican chili recipe
From: Janie
Date: 19 Sep 14 - 10:12 PM

Recently fixed this "Texas" chili recipe, which was a big hit. For those who like it hot, easy to add more hot chilis to it. I grew up on a southern Applachian version of chili made with ground beef, kidney beans and canned tomatoes - degree of heat varied, but very different, regardless of 'heat' from this recipe. I'm so colloquial I was startled by the difference.


Crockpot recipe.

Beef
1 tbsp. oil
5 lbs chuck or shoulder roast, very well trimmed to end up about 4 pounds. Cut into 1 1/2 cubes.
2 1/2 tsp. kosher salt
1 tsp coarsely ground black pepper

Aromatics

2 medium onions, minced
6 cloves minced garlic
1/3 cup tomato paste (1/2 of a 6 ox can)
1tsp Kosher salt
1/2 cup chili powder
1 tbsp. ground cumin
1 tbsp. ground coriander
1 tbsp. dried oregano
1 tbsp. chipotle en adobo, after pureed in blender

liquids added directly to crock pot

16 oz tomato sauce
2 cups chicken broth

2nd batch of aromatics to be added 1/2 hour before serving

1 tbsp chili powder
1 tsp ground cumin
1 tsp brown sugar
1/2 tsp Kosher salt
1 tsp. chipotle en adobo puree

Toss the cubed beef with the salt and pepper. Heat large cast iron skillet to medium high with the oil. Brown 1/2 the cubed beef on one or two sides, being careful to not overcrowd the skillet. Put the other half of the unbrowned beef in the crock pot. Looking for a balance between tenderness and the flavor of browning.

Remove the browned beef from the skillet with a slotted spoon and add to crock pot.

Add the onions, garlic and tomato paste to skillet and saute until onions soften and the tomato paste begins to brown. Make a hole in the center and add the dried spices, toast until the chili becomes aromatic, about 1 minute, then add the chipotle en adobo puree and stir all together. Add to the beef in the crock pot and stir to coat beef. Put skillet back on stovetop and add 1/2 cup beer. Deglaze skillet and add to crockpot.   Stir well to coat beef. Add the tomato sauce and chicken broth. Cook 8-10 hours in crock pot, stirring occasionally. 1/2 hour before done, add the second batch of aromatic spices.

Serve with side condiments of sour cream, sharp shredded cheddar, chopped green onion, chopped fresh cilantro, and chipotle en adobo or chopped hot peppers and/or hot sauce of your choosing for those who like to sweat. Don't forget a good gritty non-sweet southern cornbread as a side.

I had never made Texas chili and there are a lot of recipes out there. Always a bit nervous trying a new recipe. Friends don't mind offering honest opinions when I do. This recipe got very good reviews from those what ate it.

Subject: RE: BS: proper mexican chili recipe
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 20 Sep 14 - 03:47 AM

Subject: the proper Mexican chili judge

I don't normally like posting posts that take too much of your time to read, but .......
Warning: PG-13 maybe for some.

==========================

They actually have a Chili Cook Off about the time Halloween comes around.
It takes up a major portion of a parking lot at the San Antonio City Park.
Judge #3 was an inexperienced Chili Taster named Frank, who was visiting from Springfield, IL

Frank: "Recently, I was honored to be selected as a judge at a chili
cook-off. The original person called in sick at the last moment and I
happened to be standing there at the judge's table asking for directions to the Coors Light truck, when the call came in. I was assured by the other two judges (Native Texans) that the chili wouldn't be all that spicy and, besides, they told me I could have free beer during the tasting, so I accepted."

Here are the scorecard notes from the event:

*****************************************************
CHILI # 1 - MIKE'S MANIAC MONSTER CHILI...
Judge # 1 -- A little too heavy on the tomato. Amusing kick.
Judge # 2 - Nice, smooth tomato flavor. Very mild.
Judge # 3 (Frank) -- Holy crap, what the hell is this stuff? You could remove dried paint from your driveway. Took me two beers to put the flames out. I hope that's the worst one. These Texans are crazy.

*****************************************************
CHILI # 2 - AUSTIN'S AFTERBURNER CHILI..
Judge # 1 -- Smoky, with a hint of pork. Slight jalapeno tang.
Judge #2 -- Exciting BBQ flavor, needs more peppers to be taken seriously.
Judge # 3 -- Keep this out of the reach of children. I'm not sure what I'm supposed to taste besides pain. I had to wave off two people who wanted to give me the Heimlich maneuver. They had to rush in more beer when they saw the look on my face.

*****************************************************
CHILI # 3 - FRED'S BURN DOWN THE BARN CHILI...
Judge # 1 -- Excellent firehouse chili. Great kick.
Judge # 2 -- A bit salty, good use of peppers.
Judge # 3 -- Call the EPA. I've located a uranium spill. My nose feels like I have been snorting Drano. Everyone knows the routine by now. Get me more beer before I ignite. Barmaid pounded me on the back, now my backbone is in the front part of my chest. I'm getting drunk from all of the beer.

*****************************************************
CHILI # 4 - BUBBA'S BLACK MAGIC...
Judge # 1 -- Black bean chili with almost no spice. Disappointing.
Judge # 2 -- Hint of lime in the black beans. Good side dish for fish or other mild foods not much of a chili.
Judge # 3 -- I felt something scraping across my tongue, but was unable to taste it. Is it possible to burn out taste bud s? Sally, the beermaid, was standing behind me with fresh refills. That 300-LB woman is starting to look HOT, just like this nuclear waste I'm eating! Is chili an aphrodisiac?

*****************************************************
CHILI # 5 LISA'S LEGAL LIP REMOVER...
Judge # 1 -- Meaty, strong chili. Cayenne peppers freshly ground, adding considerable kick. Very impressive.
Judge # 2 -- Chili using shredded beef, could use more tomato. Must admit the cayenne peppers make a strong statement.
Judge # 3 -- My ears are ringing, sweat is pouring off my forehead and I can no longer focus my eyes. I farted and four people behind me needed paramedics. The contestant seemed offended when I told her that her chili had given me brain damage. Sally saved my tongue from bleeding by pouring beer directly on it from the pitcher. I wonder if I'm burning my lips off.
It really ticks me off that the other judges asked me to stop screaming.

*****************************************************
CHILI # 6 - VERA'S VERY VEGETARIAN VARIETY...
Judge # 1 -- Thin yet bold vegetarian variety chili. Good balance of
spices and peppers.
Judge # 2 -- The best yet. Aggressive use of peppers, onions, and garlic.
Superb.
Judge # 3 -- My intestines are now a straight pipe filled with gaseous, sulfuric flames. I pooped on myself when I farted and I'm worried it will eat through the chair. No one seems inclined to stand behind me except that Sally. Can't feel my lips anymore. I need to wipe my rear-end with a snow cone.

*****************************************************
CHILI # 7 - SUSAN'S SCREAMING SENSATION CHILI...
Judge # 1 -- A mediocre chili with too much reliance on canned peppers.
Judge # 2 -- Ho hum, tastes as if the chef literally threw in a can of chili peppers at the last moment. **I should take note that I am worried about Judge # 3. He appears to be in a bit of distress as he is cursing uncontrollably.
Judge # 3 -- You could put a grenade in my mouth, pull the pin, and I
wouldn't feel a thing. I've lost sight in one eye, and the world sounds like it is made of rushing water. My shirt is covered with chili, which slid unnoticed out of my mouth. My pants are full of lava to match my shirt. At least during the autopsy, they'll know what killed me. I've decided to stop breathing, it's too painful. I'm not getting any oxygen anyway. If I need air, I'll just suck it in through the 4-inch hole in my stomach.

*****************************************************
CHILI # 8 - BIG TOM'S TOENAIL CURLING CHILI...
Judge # 1 -- The perfect ending, this is a nice blend chili. Not too bold,..but spicy enough to declare its existence.
Judge # 2 -- This final entry is a good, balanced chili. Neither mild nor too hot. Sorry to see that most of it was lost when Judge #3 farted, passed out, fell over and pulled the chili pot down on top of himself. Not sure if he's going to make it. Poor feller, wonder how he'd have reacted to really hot chili?
Judge # 3 - No Report


GfS

Subject: RE: BS: proper mexican chili recipe
From: Mrrzy
Date: 20 Sep 14 - 04:26 PM

When I was in college, I could eat mexican because it wasn't all full of cilantro. Now there are places where the only thing that isn't pre-mixed with cilantro is, sometimes, the lettuce. I've never liked chinese parsley, as it was called when I first met it, so it isn't that I didn't used to be sensitive to it. It really didn't used to be in mexican food in the US. Only since the 90's, really, since in 1987 I was all across the southwest without running into it. Shame.

Also I do have to say that the 4-alarm brand of chili kit makes some excellent chili if you don't have all the fun ingredients.