Taking on the Big Boys? - classic big long ballads

Subject: RE: Taking on the Big Boys? - classic big long ballads
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 22 Dec 09 - 02:25 PM

Re "The Brown Girl" as US title for "Lord Thomas & Fair Elinor" — this is confusing and to be deprecated: because Child has another ballad,{the one about the rejected mistress begged to return or he will die for love, when she responds spiritedly that in that event her mourning will take the form of dancing on his grave, hip-hurrah for her!} that is actually called by Child "THE BROWN GIRL", #295 — & we really can't do with two Child Ballads with the same title, can we?

Subject: RE: Taking on the Big Boys? - classic big long ballads
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 22 Dec 09 - 02:26 PM

As my name has been taken in vain a couple of times I can only say that if my Tam Lin ballad pleases people it's probably because I heard Bert Lloyd sing it about 40 years ago and some of the magic must have rubbed off (I'm convinced that, in his prime, he was a genuine magician!).

I think that it's important to know how NOT to sing ballads. For a start don't over-dramatise. I once heard/saw a woman sing a ballad illustrated with actions - it was HORRIBLE - by half way through I was under the seat CRINGING and moaning with embarassment and rage!

I've always found that the best ballad performances are understated with the singer almost acting as a conduit for the story (to do that actually takes great skill). Some people complain that ballads are repetitive - but that's often one of their key features - the repeated refrains, figures and motifs are designed to build tension. Trouble is a lot of modern audiences tend to treat refrains as choruses and belt them out - which can spoil the effect.

Subject: RE: Taking on the Big Boys? - classic big long ballads
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 22 Dec 09 - 02:33 PM

Among American ballad singers whose renditions I have always found fascinating may be named Hedy West and the late Sandy Paton — nothing ever tedious or soporific in a ballad sung by either of them. And among Irish singers, Paddy Tunney, Frank Harte, Packie Byrne, Elizabeth Cronin ...

Subject: RE: Taking on the Big Boys? - classic big long bal
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 22 Dec 09 - 02:36 PM

I've never heard it performed, but the longest ballad I have seen is in the Northumbrian Minstrelsy - "Chevy Chase."

Subject: RE: Taking on the Big Boys? - classic big long ballads
From: kendall
Date: 22 Dec 09 - 02:38 PM

Others not mentioned, Helen Schneyer and Joe Hickerson. They can sing those long ballads and I will listen.

Subject: RE: Taking on the Big Boys? - classic big long ballads
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 22 Dec 09 - 02:48 PM

Oh dear! Just had a phone call from a mate of mine who lives up in Manchester. Apparently the bloke who calls himself 'Spleen Cringe' on here thinks that another bloke who goes to his local club is me! Even worse this other bloke sings Tam Lin (would you believe it?)! He sings it quite well I believe - perhaps he even sings it better than me?!

I'm me by the way - just though I'd clear that up!

Subject: RE: Taking on the Big Boys? - classic big long bal
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 22 Dec 09 - 02:57 PM

I'm me by the way - just though I'd clear that up!

Oh well, that nullifies the sense of this post, Shimrod! If you're not who Spleen thinks you are (not Pip anyway) who are you???

Otherwise, with you on that previous post there....

Subject: RE: Taking on the Big Boys? - classic big long ballads
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 22 Dec 09 - 03:00 PM

"I never heard the old song of Percy and Douglas that I found not my heart moved more than with a trumpet; and yet it is sung but by some blind crowder, with no rougher voice than rude style," wrote the Elizabethan courtier Sir Philip Sidney in his 'An Apology for Poetry, or a Defense of Poesy', 1579.

That would have been the ballad we call Chevy Chase: so there is one performance on record for you, Walkabouts — indeed, the way Sidney writes makes it sound as if he quite often heard it.

Sidney, btw, has gone down to history and added a phrase to the language, as the wounded general who died after the Battle of Zütphen, having, according to legend, insisted that a wounded common soldier beside him should be given a drink of water first with the words "Thy need is greater than mine". Si non e verro, e ben trovato & all that.

Subject: RE: Taking on the Big Boys? - classic big long ballads
From: olddude
Date: 22 Dec 09 - 03:01 PM

I think like someone said it all depends on the make up of the audience. If you do that to 20 or 30 somethings even if it is great and you are a great story teller and singer you sometimes will get away with it .. most of the time not ... just my opinion ...

I also think the location and background has a lot to do with it, if they grew up hearing the mom's and dads playing long ballads they will most likely appreciate it .. if not, they will turn off ...

At the folk festival they have here in the summer, the people stay, listen and enjoy many of the long ballads, but that is the make up of that audience. Gotta know the audience for sure. Around my parts there are no folk clubs, just cafe type places where people eat and listen.

Subject: RE: Taking on the Big Boys? - classic big long ballads
From: Maryrrf
Date: 22 Dec 09 - 03:03 PM

It sure is good to see ballads getting all this attention!

Subject: RE: Taking on the Big Boys? - classic big long ballads
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 22 Dec 09 - 03:06 PM

"Were I you, I'd only sing them to the like-minded."
Isn't this the case with any folk song - you try and get away with Dark Eyed Sailor at a family Christmas party (unless they are all folkies like yourself).
A big ballad only fails in 'folk' company when it is sung badly - if I can sit through a Bob Bleedin' Dylan song I expect the assembled company to have the patience to sit through Tifties Annie.
"Don't treat the ballads with undue reverence;"
Absolutely - as long as the basic work has been done - words, tune, understanding - a big ballad will sing itself.
Rejecting ballads because of their length is equivalent to not reading good literature because it has 'too many pages'.
If a ballad is sung with a level of skill and understanding, and it is enjoyed by the singer, the length (as in all things) shouldn't matter.
"Lord Randall[imo]is a bore"
Cap'n, if you don't like Lord Randall, please respect those of us who do enough to allow us to make up our own minds. Truth be told, I'm not too fond of Thomas The Rhymer, but I wouldn't dream of trying to influence those of you who do.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Taking on the Big Boys? - classic big long bal
From: GUEST,EKanne
Date: 22 Dec 09 - 03:09 PM

In reply to MtheGM, what Jeannie Robertson sang was called 'Little Matty Groves' (confirmed in the book 'Emergent Singer, Transformative Voice' by James Porter and Herschel Gower, about Jeannie). Obviously it was sung as a Scottish version, but I recollect hearing - presumably from Norman Buchan - that the tune was adapted from one sung by Jean Ritchie for the same song at an Aberdeen Folk Festival around 1960, which Jeannie heard and liked.
And there is a suggestion in the Porter book that Jeannie, in fact, had two tunes for this ballad - one that she regarded as her 'big' tune, which she would only sing when properly warmed up. Having not heard Jean Ritchie's tune, I've no idea which one I heard that evening in Norman's house, which - in any case - I've now further adapted to fit the different version that I now sing.
The everlasting folk process...

Subject: RE: Taking on the Big Boys? - classic big long ballads
From: GUEST,Russ
Date: 22 Dec 09 - 03:12 PM

I love my long ballads.

In a world where everybody has barely enough time to listen to three verses and a chorus they are such marvelous time-sinks.

In a world of Priuses they are Oldsmobile Delta 88's.

They are behemoths from another world.

What's not to like?

I can't explain my love, just acknowledge it.
But that's what makes it love.

I am not a performer.

Even if I were a performer I probably wouldn't do my long ballads.
Everything that I love about them would be viewed negatively by a ballad-averse audience.

So I sing them to myself. They're much better than radio when I am driving.

I am lucky enough to have a small circle of like minded friends
We call ourselves the ballad addicted.

We meet irregularly.
Our motto is more is better.

We're happy to sing three or four different versions of the same ballad back to back.
We once sang the same 30 verse ballad 3 times in three different keys to determine once and for all which key we preferred.

I should mention that I don't learn ballads. I learn specific versions.
I have found that if I love a version, it is not a big deal to learn it.
But, since I learn specific versions I am reluctant to make any changes.
I am not one for "improving".
However, problems occur when I mix my versions.

Don't let the nay sayers get you down.

Russ (Permanent GUEST)

Subject: RE: Taking on the Big Boys? - classic big long ballads
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 22 Dec 09 - 03:17 PM

Folk process indeed, Anne. Thank you very much for this clarification, which I find of exceptional interest. Did Jeannie actually use the name 'Matty Groves' in her 'Scottish version'; & if so, what name did the Lord & Lady have? I ask purely in search of knowledge and information — I fear I am one like Arthur Clennam in 'Little Dorrit': "I want to know, you know!"

Best regards + Happy Xmas & HNY...
Michael

Subject: RE: Taking on the Big Boys? - classic big long ballads
From: Bill D
Date: 22 Dec 09 - 03:24 PM

To make it even more complex, " "Lord Thomas & Fair Elinor" is also called "The Dun Brown Bride" and "Sweet Wille & Fair Annie" and a couple other things: and "The Brown Girl" (#295) is called " The Dover Sailor", "Fine Sally", "Pretty Sally", "Queen Sally", "Sally of London", and "The Rich Irish Lady"

To be deprecated? Oh, indeed...but you should see what I, a woodturner, have to struggle with as people invent clever common names for woods!~ And between the UK, the USA, and Australia, 'Maple' and 'Sycamore' are hoplelessly muddled...not to mention the non-Oak Oaks, the non-Dalbergia "Rosewoods"...etc.

Subject: RE: Taking on the Big Boys? - classic big long bal
From: GUEST,EKanne
Date: 22 Dec 09 - 03:25 PM

Re. Jeannie's version of 'Musgrave', to the best of my memory the main character was Little Matty Groves and the lord was Lord Darnal.
Unfortunately, I don't have her text anywhere and the School of Scottish Studies tape that someone once sent to me is temporarily misplaced -- but I'll be back to you if I find it.

Subject: RE: Taking on the Big Boys? - classic big long ballads
From: Bill D
Date: 22 Dec 09 - 03:32 PM

What I have from Jeannie Robertson was called "Little Musgrave and Lady Barnard", but her tune was not the more common one. I can see why she "warmed up" before singing it.

Subject: RE: Taking on the Big Boys? - classic big long ballads
From: Bill D
Date: 22 Dec 09 - 03:36 PM

No...wait.. the Jeannie R. version has been titled
"Little Musgrave and Lady Barnard", but she SINGS "Mattie Grove" in it.

Subject: RE: Taking on the Big Boys? - classic big long ballads
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 22 Dec 09 - 03:36 PM

BillD - what do you call 'the more common one'? I know at least half-a-dozen tunes for this ballad, all of which I have sung at some time. The one I use most often actually belonged originally to a Canadian version called 'The Young Leboux' which I learned 50+ years ago from Paul Carter. But I use the Musgrave/Barnard names. Folk process again?

Subject: RE: Taking on the Big Boys? - classic big long ballads
From: Bill D
Date: 22 Dec 09 - 03:55 PM

Let me see if I can post a short clip from it to see if we are thinking of the same one.

It will take a few min.

Subject: RE: Taking on the Big Boys? - classic big long ballads
From: Aeola
Date: 22 Dec 09 - 03:59 PM

The key seems to be sing from the heart and remember the audience needs to be kept entertained. My favourite is ' Big Jack Cosgrove' by His Worship and the Pig!

Subject: RE: Taking on the Big Boys? - classic big long ballads
From: Bill D
Date: 22 Dec 09 - 04:12 PM

here is a one minute clip of Jeannie R singing Mattie Grove

(I 'think' I got it done right)

Subject: RE: Taking on the Big Boys? - classic big long ballads
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 22 Dec 09 - 04:14 PM

Don't recall any mentions of Martin Carthy on this thread. He can make a ballad a memorable experience as can few people — think of his Lang Johnny More reworking, & his amazing Willie's Lady. And he and Nic Jones both recorded wonderful versions, at about the same time, of Clyde Water or The Mother's Malison - to similar but subtly different tunes. Tony Rose's Banks Of Green Willow comes to mind likewise.

Subject: RE: Taking on the Big Boys? - classic big long ballads
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 22 Dec 09 - 04:18 PM

Many thanks, Bill, for clip of Jeannie's singing. That indeed not a familiar tune. By 'the more common one', I take it you meant the US one familiar from Joan Baez et al?

Subject: RE: Taking on the Big Boys? - classic big long ballads
From: Bill D
Date: 22 Dec 09 - 04:26 PM

Yes... the Joan Baez tune is the one. (I heard it first about 1962, before I knew who Joan Baez was)

Subject: RE: Taking on the Big Boys? - classic big long ballads
From: The Sandman
Date: 22 Dec 09 - 04:30 PM

Cap'n, if you don't like Lord Randall, please respect those of us who do enough to allow us to make up our own minds. Truth be told, I'm not too fond of Thomas The Rhymer, but I wouldn't dream of trying to influence those of you who do.
Jim Carroll.
ha ha,but that is just what you are doing.

Subject: RE: Taking on the Big Boys? - classic big long ballads
From: Bill D
Date: 22 Dec 09 - 04:33 PM

BTW folks... someone (Bob Frank) has actually taken the trouble to record a strange version of the LONG Robin Hood ballad..all 400+ verses. Something to while away the Winter nights learning.

Subject: RE: Taking on the Big Boys? - classic big long ballads
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 22 Dec 09 - 04:33 PM

Martin Carthy sings Willie's Lady (Child #6) to the Breton tune Son Ar Chistre. It was Ray Fisher who first put the two together. We sing it as The Wax Baby, my own setting to a fragment of an old Scandinavian lullaby, but we manage to bring it in under 6 minutes. Hear it on our Myspace Page - track six.

Subject: RE: Taking on the Big Boys? - classic big long ballads
From: Art Thieme
Date: 22 Dec 09 - 04:45 PM

MtheGm,
Joan got her version from Bob Gibson--both tune and words.

The version of Fair Ellender I did was one I was told came from southern Illinois in the USA. It was titled "Lord Thomas and Sarah Brown" --- after the head of his bride was cut off and kicked against the wall, the next verse states:

The teeth did click and the tongue did cluck,
On the ground where it did fall,
The teeth did click and the tongue did cluck,
Still grumbling at him with all.

This is why I love ballads so much!

Art

Subject: RE: Taking on the Big Boys? - classic big long ballads
From: Art Thieme
Date: 22 Dec 09 - 04:49 PM

DebC, Thank you for saying that.
Art

Subject: RE: Taking on the Big Boys? - classic big long ballads
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 22 Dec 09 - 04:56 PM

Indeed, Art - the head cut off & kicked against the wall also climaxes the "Musgrave" version that I sing. Sandy Paton used to sing that too, I recall; but alas I can't remember to which tune. That was in 1958 when he was here and I knew him well. He was resident at Eel Pie Island folk club, among others, where also I learned the Canadian "Young Leboux" tune from Paul Carter, which, as I say above, I find the best of the 'Musgrave' tunes.

Subject: RE: Taking on the Big Boys? - classic big long ballads
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 22 Dec 09 - 07:04 PM

"ha ha,but that is just what you are doing. "
No I'm not - I'm suggesting that by persistantly repeating that Lord Randall is boring, that you are being rather ----- well, boring.
MacColl sang more ballads than any singer I ever heard; he had 137 of them in his repertoire, many of them in multiple versions.
He said that in the early days of the Ballads and Blues and Singers Clubs he was nervous of singing long ones so when he did Gil Maurice he sang half of it before the interval and the rest of it in the second half - until an audience member asked him why; from then on he did it all in one go.
Quite often it can be the singer who is unsure of the ballad rather than the audience.
The high watermark of the tradition IMO
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Taking on the Big Boys? - classic big long ballads
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 22 Dec 09 - 07:22 PM

Just to summarise some of the responses to the original question.

Obviously listen to all the wonderful singers and ballads mentioned on these threads.

To start with perhaps choose some of the couplet ballads with plenty of refrain and repeats so folks can join in. I started with The Cruel Mother, The Two Sisters and The Maid and the Palmer, 3 very powerful, but easy to sing ballads.

( a little tip...avoid the obscure ones with only a few versions)

I love all of the really popular ballads, listening and singing.

I endorse all Brian wrote above.

Subject: RE: Taking on the Big Boys? - classic big long ballads
From: Howard Jones
Date: 23 Dec 09 - 11:45 AM

With ballads, it's not enough to be a good singer, you must be a good storyteller as well. Rather than just trying to memorise the words, you must memorise and understand the story - if you can do this, then you should have no trouble remembering the words, as they will come to you.

Just as the worst way to tell a joke is to have memorised it word for word, the worst way to sing a ballad is simply to learn the lines.

I love ballads.   I love the way the plot is often whittled down to the bare bone, and yet they can go off down apparently irrelevant sidetracks, like the talking parrot in The Outlandish Knight. I love the simple yet majestic language which can convey sometimes horrific events in such matter-of-fact tones.   Unfortunately there aren't many singers who can carry them off, and all too often the delivery, rather than the ballad itself, is boring. In the hands of the right singer, however, they can be spellbinding.

Subject: RE: Taking on the Big Boys? - classic big long ballads
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 24 Dec 09 - 02:58 AM

With ballads, it's not enough to be a good singer, you must be a good storyteller as well.

This is a myth that's cropped up a few times here; but as both a storyteller & a ballad singer (and one who frequently uses ballads as a part of storytelling performance) I'd say that storytelling is something very different indeed. Storytelling mediumistic narrative empowerment in which the story is made real in the liminal space that exists between the storyteller and the audience. Essentially it comes down your joke analogy - you can tell neither jokes or stories word for word, but with ballads the words are already there, word for word perfected. The narrative is thus carried not by telling, but by the finely honed verse which really needs no more from the performer other than to let it through. I go back to what Shimrod said earlier - because these things don't need selling, they just need singing.

Ultimately with ballad singing it really is a matter of Do What Thou Wilt, and worry not one jot about the detractors. These days I mostly sing my big ballads whilst out on long solitary walks in the country - such is their potency they don't need an audience, especially a folk club audience for whom the ballad experience can be something of an ordeal, joining the old folk-jokes alongside banjos and bodrans...

Subject: RE: Taking on the Big Boys? - classic big long ballads
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 24 Dec 09 - 03:55 AM

Should read:

Storytelling is (a) mediumistic narrative empowerment...

Subject: RE: Taking on the Big Boys? - classic big long ballads
From: Howard Jones
Date: 24 Dec 09 - 08:56 AM

The point I was trying to convey is that it is not enough simply to memorise and repeat the words, the singer has to understand how to use them to convey the story.

Subject: RE: Taking on the Big Boys? - classic big long ballads
From: Paul Burke
Date: 24 Dec 09 - 09:35 AM

Yes, I don't do huge ballads, despite knowing several thoroughly. You have to have the storyteller's art too- it's almost undefinable, but you can tell someone who's got it. If you haven't, like me you'll sound like someone singing the telephone directory.

Subject: RE: Taking on the Big Boys? - classic big long ballads
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 24 Dec 09 - 09:49 AM

Well I've enjoyed idly dabbling with Thomas the past few days - but I find can't sing it completely straight, I find I have to subtly play with tempo and tone, depending on the scene. It feels a bit like painting.

I guess, as another poster put it, I'll find out how best *I can* do it, by simply doing it..

Subject: RE: Taking on the Big Boys? - classic big long ballads
From: Maryrrf
Date: 24 Dec 09 - 09:52 AM

"Such is their potency they don't need an audience" Yes, Yes, Yes - this is so true! Many an evening I relax by myself and sing my cherished ballads - visualizing every nuance. To me, it's an evening spent with old and dear friends (who often lead very tragic and extraordinary lives, repleat with murders, incest, visits from elfin folk, etc. LOL). Hard to say what the fascination is - I just get caught up in the spell even though I know exactly what's coming - like seeing a classic movie again and again, but each time you notice something new. There are various ballads that I never sing in public, but I often sing them during my private "ballad evenings".

Subject: RE: Taking on the Big Boys? - classic big long ballads
From: Willa
Date: 24 Dec 09 - 10:44 AM

Here's a link to EnglishFolkFan's mention of Norma Waterson


http://podcast.open.ac.uk/oulearn/arts-and-humanities/podcast-aa317-words-music-english-folk#

Subject: RE: Taking on the Big Boys? - classic big long ballads
From: mkebenn
Date: 24 Dec 09 - 12:53 PM

Re: Matty Groves. I first heard this by Joan about fifty years ago, and while I listened to it for the amazing quality of her voice, I had no desire to play it. Twenty years later I heard Fairport do it, and I play it that way still. sometimes I'll do the first verse to Joan's version and then speed up and use Fairport's killer riff to introduce the rest of the song. Mike

ps. Loved the version in "Songcather"

Subject: RE: Taking on the Big Boys? - classic big long ballads
From: Maryrrf
Date: 24 Dec 09 - 02:14 PM

I love Joan Baez' version of Mattie Groves, and I also love Fairport's version. I found it worked great to set the Joan Baez version words to the Fairport tune (which is actually the same tune as "Shady Grove"). You can hear the result of this mix on my MySpace page . Stevie Mulholland, who played fiddle, hadn't heard the Fairport version and so made up his own fiddle accompaniment which I think turned out great.

Subject: RE: Taking on the Big Boys? - classic big long ballads
From: mkebenn
Date: 24 Dec 09 - 02:21 PM

Maryrrf. Does Shady Grove predate Fairport's tune? I always assumed it was the other way 'round. 'Course you know what they say about assuming. Mike

Subject: RE: Taking on the Big Boys? - classic big long ballads
From: GUEST,Ian Gill
Date: 24 Dec 09 - 02:30 PM

It's like directing Shakespeare - get the scissors out - if people don't like it they can do their own versions. The 'original' text will always be there for them.
      'Where the play sucks there cut I ...'

Subject: RE: Taking on the Big Boys? - classic big long ballads
From: GUEST,The Folk E
Date: 24 Dec 09 - 02:34 PM

You can really wear yourself out dancing to those real long folk ballads.

Subject: RE: Taking on the Big Boys? - classic big long ballads
From: Don Firth
Date: 24 Dec 09 - 03:30 PM

Crow Sister, the very core of what got me actively interested in folk music in the first place was the evening I heard Walt Robertson sing an informal concert in a restaurant in Seattle's University District in 1952. The restaurant, named "The Chalet," was about the nearest thing to a coffeehouse that Seattle had at the time.

In about two and a half or three hours, Walt sang a whole variety of songs, but the ones that really grabbed me were the long ballads—the songs that told stories. I don't remember what all ballads Walt sang that night, but Mattie Groves was one of them. Twenty-seven verses.

And I have found that in a coffeehouse set (about 35 or 40 minutes), I can include one of the longer ballads and have the audience hanging on the story, and often, after the set is over, if someone asks me about a particular song in the set, it will be the ballad ("Who wrote that?" Who knows? Perhaps some ancient bard or minstrel. "Where did it come from?" Sometimes from an actual historical incident, sometimes a story that's been around and been retold for centuries.). The same thing has happened after concerts I've done, when I've interspersed three or four ballads in among a lot of shorter, more lyrical songs.

It's been my experience that general audiences find these ballads fascinating, especially if I sing them well; not "hamming them up," but singing them with the same kind of expression I would use if I were telling a story, much as an ancient minstrel would have. After all, they were musical story-tellers.

Where I occasionally encounter someone sighing and rolling their eyes when I start a longer ballad is genereally in a gathering of jaded "folkies." Remember:   just because they have heard it many times before doesn't mean that everybody has. Nor does one hyper-sophisticated yo-yo yawning and looking bored mean that others aren't fascinated by the story and are following it avidly.

Know the story thoroughly. Sing it well. And remember, you're telling a story.

Probably not a good idea to string a whole bunch of them together, though. Any good program needs to be varied.

Sing the songs you like, sing them well, and others will enjoy them also.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Taking on the Big Boys? - classic big long ballads
From: Maryrrf
Date: 24 Dec 09 - 03:32 PM

As near as I can determine the first references to "Shady Grove" were in 1916. (That's according to the Traditional Ballad Index . But who knows how long the tune has been around, and what words might have been fitted to it. Does anyone know of a source singer who did Mattie Groves to that tune, or did Fairport just decide to use it because it was a great tune and it fit? Whatever the case, it works, and works well!

Subject: RE: Taking on the Big Boys? - classic big long ballads
From: mkebenn
Date: 24 Dec 09 - 03:36 PM

Thank you, Maryrrf, Mike

Subject: RE: Taking on the Big Boys? - classic big long ballads
From: Don Firth
Date: 24 Dec 09 - 04:57 PM

The tune to Mary Smith's rendition of "Mattie Groves" is pretty close to the version John Jacob Niles sings.

I've heard Niles' version, and those sung by both Bob Gibson and Joan Baez, and there is darn little difference between them. A note or two here and there, but the melodic curve is the same in all of them.

Don Firth