BS: translations from the British

Subject: RE: BS: translations from the British
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 03 Aug 10 - 06:04 PM

Da spring has sprung da grass is riz
I wonder where da boidies is
Dey say da boid is on da wing
But that's absoid
'Cos da wing is on da boid.

Subject: RE: BS: translations from the British
From: artbrooks
Date: 03 Aug 10 - 05:37 PM

Jimmy Durante was from Brooklyn, not the Bronx. People from Brooklyn talk funny - ask my mother, who is from the Bronx.

Subject: RE: BS: translations from the British
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 03 Aug 10 - 05:35 PM

Haven't heard 'blag'. Not in Lighter's American slang dictionary.

Subject: RE: BS: translations from the British
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 03 Aug 10 - 05:20 PM

I'll accept that verbal usage of "blag", but as a noun,I think my version is correct.

Subject: RE: BS: translations from the British
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 03 Aug 10 - 05:13 PM

Shouldn't that be "poritica collectness"?

Subject: RE: BS: translations from the British
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 03 Aug 10 - 04:36 PM

rarger, of course, is larger.
When I was in the Army (WW2), in joking around, we faked a Japanese accent by changing all L's to R's and R's to L.s. A woman wore ripstick, flowers were frowers, etc.
The Japanese didn't know how to pronounce these sounds until political correctness became the raw of the rand.

I hate to tell ya, but Americans west of the Mississip. don't know Bronx from Boston or Brooklyn, they are not exposed to natives of those exotic places except when tourists (or some relatives) come through. I know that some non-Brahmin Bostonians add a terminal 'r' to words ending in 'a', but I found that out on visits to the far east (New England). That terminal 'r' was (is?) also found in parts of England.

Honey still varies in usage in spite of feminists. In some places it is used much like the cockney 'luv'.

Subject: RE: BS: translations from the British
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 03 Aug 10 - 04:27 PM

With the complication that American English comprises and enonmous range of different dialects.

One difference is that we're accustomed to hearing Americans all the time on TV and in films, in a way that isn't true the other way round to the same extent. That means that while we might get it wrong if we try to talk your language, we generally understand it pretty well, even the stranger bits.

Subject: RE: BS: translations from the British
From: Bainbo
Date: 03 Aug 10 - 04:26 PM

While con or bluff is a perfectly good definition of "blag". I'd have thought it has a slightly more precise meaning within that - to get something for free to which you're not properly entitled, as in: "I managed to blag my way on to the guest list" or "I 've blagged us a couple of tickets for the royal box." I accept that you could perfectly well substitute con or bluff in either of those cases - it's just that both words are capable of being used in a wider context, as well.

Subject: RE: BS: translations from the British
From: mousethief
Date: 03 Aug 10 - 04:12 PM

"Here are your grits and eggs honey" is something often said in the Waffle House and other fine dining establishments.

Waitresses are far more likely to use the clipped form "hon" (pron. hun) than "honey". From my experience in many parts of the country.

And by the way - British isn't a language. It's only a mongrel nationality.

No, but it's a dialect or set of dialects that is distinguishable from American English by vocabulary and spelling and to a lesser extent grammar.

Subject: RE: BS: translations from the British
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 03 Aug 10 - 04:11 PM

Cubicle has the sense of a washroom enclosure in N. Am but in business also refers to those little areas with movable walls, often about 5 feet tall, which cut off individual work areas in a large room. I have seen both usages in UK fiction as well as N. Am.

Geezer is an old word, formerly heard in U.S. as well as UK, but largely gone out of use. Not just an old man, ('old geezer') but applied to others as well- Lighter, Historical Dictionary of American Slang, dates it back to 1885 in England, 1893 in U. S.-Chicago Stories, "Like a great big geeser, I only puts on ten. Well, I win twenty-five."
Gong has many meanings, but in the one quoted it is a medal or award. Found in WW1 slang, later in both army and navy slang, in the U. S.
Now, it means (usually), in "Hit the gong," to smoke opium (or whatever. It also can mean to go on a spree.
Figaro doesn't seem to have crossed into N. Am. A heavy necklace or chain, often worn by spivs. but now applied to a heavy necklace for a woman or man.

Flog Both UK and N. Am., has changed meaning somewhat. Originally WW1, illegal sale of army goods. It appeared in True Confessions, an American magazine- "fake [jeweled goods] that he flogs to to parents whose sons are being ordained." Said of Geraldo Rivera (remember him?)- "...his new book that he is flogging around the country."

leeneia, you seem to be somewhat isolated from the language as she is spoke in N. Am.

Subject: RE: BS: translations from the British
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 03 Aug 10 - 04:04 PM

blag = theftuously to take. Once largely confined to bank robbery, now to rob (rather than steal from) almost any organisation premises or institution.

Subject: RE: BS: translations from the British
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 03 Aug 10 - 04:04 PM

Blag is bluff, a sort of a con trick perhaps.

Subject: RE: BS: translations from the British
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 03 Aug 10 - 04:01 PM

"Honey" is alive and well here in Indiana.

Yesterday I was looking for a given product in Sam's Club (a subsidiary of Wal-Mart), and asked a female employee where it would be in the store. After some conversations to establish what I was looking for, she said, "Sorry, we don't carry that, honey."

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: translations from the British
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 03 Aug 10 - 03:57 PM

As uausl, this 'translations from' thread has generated a nice number of interested responses. The Mudcat is a good place to go to talk about language per se.

Georgiansilver and Jeri, thanks for explaining about the figaro chain.

A note to whoever it was said "Google is your friend": Wise up. Most of us are on this thread because we want to chat with somebody for a little while. Also, because we are in that minority who share an interest in lanaguage. If you want to be efficient, be efficient on the job.
======
It's interesting that 'geezer' is so different in our two countries. Has it always been that way?
========
Crow Sister, thanks for the link. The rhymes in that are amazing.

Subject: RE: BS: translations from the British
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 03 Aug 10 - 03:48 PM

I forgot one.

I can't find it in the book, but somewhere someone used the verb 'blag.'

What does it mean to blag?

Subject: RE: BS: translations from the British
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 03 Aug 10 - 03:40 PM

The sound on that was rubbish, this one's better: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Lk7UGWKfkc

Subject: RE: BS: translations from the British
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 03 Aug 10 - 03:37 PM

"I love this phrase, a geezer in the boozer. Somebody ought to write a song about it."

I think you'll like this then: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-JIzWFfsPk

Subject: RE: BS: translations from the British
From: mayomick
Date: 03 Aug 10 - 03:28 PM

Geezer is from the irish word gaysur for boy ,but you don't here it used in Ireland .According to one of the poems of the Irish poet Paul Muldoon, hoodlum is backslang for muldoo (muldoon) - the name of an early 20 century San Francisco street gang .

Subject: RE: BS: translations from the British
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 03 Aug 10 - 03:25 PM

..."rarger rout" ~~ clearly [conventionally supposed] Japanese pronunciation of "lager-lout" ~~ a composite, now obsolescent English idiom for a young binge-drinker who behaves in a disorderly/aggressive manner in a public place. At one time, strong lager was the fashionable drink among such misbehaving young men: I am not sure if this is still the case. In any event, "lager-lout" is, as I say, now a somewhat weary locution which has been superseded by "binge-drinker".

~Michael~

Subject: RE: BS: translations from the British
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 03 Aug 10 - 03:14 PM

I'd also like to know why a "guy" would be talking to his wife in a "cubicle" - which is often used in the UK for a compartment for a washdown closet in a lavatory. Isn't it taking togetherness a bit too far?

Subject: RE: BS: translations from the British
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 03 Aug 10 - 03:12 PM

I think "geezer" is more respectful or even marginally admiring than "hoodlum" or "punk". Think "Real Bloke" but of more questionable legality or morality.

Subject: RE: BS: translations from the British
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 03 Aug 10 - 03:06 PM

"Here are your grits and eggs honey" is something often said in the Waffle House and other fine dining establishments.

Subject: RE: BS: translations from the British
From: Ebbie
Date: 03 Aug 10 - 02:08 PM

I meant to say: In neither case would 'honey' be appropriate. Unless he was 80 years old and she was his granddaughter.

Subject: RE: BS: translations from the British
From: Ebbie
Date: 03 Aug 10 - 02:06 PM

In the given situation, if an American were trying to be formal/posh, he would be likely to say: Well, my dear, I must be going.

If he were being informal and he knew the widow well - especially if the widow were American born - most likely he would say: Well, hon, I've gotta go.

Subject: RE: BS: translations from the British
From: Charmion
Date: 03 Aug 10 - 02:02 PM

It's something the guy in the next cubicle always calls his wife, although she has a perfectly serviceable name.

Subject: RE: BS: translations from the British
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 03 Aug 10 - 01:51 PM

I thought it was more something ladies said, maybe for analogous reasons.

Subject: RE: BS: translations from the British
From: Amos
Date: 03 Aug 10 - 01:40 PM

IT went out of favor at the peak of the feminist movement in the 80's or 90's when used by male chauvinist pigs to enslave women with condescending sexist terminology. ;>)


A

Subject: RE: BS: translations from the British
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 03 Aug 10 - 01:20 PM

Is "honey" anachronistic in America now?

Not when referring to either bee vomit or one's significant other.

Subject: RE: BS: translations from the British
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 03 Aug 10 - 01:11 PM

Figaro chain here!

Subject: RE: BS: translations from the British
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 03 Aug 10 - 12:56 PM

Is "honey" anachronistic in America now?

Subject: RE: BS: translations from the British
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 03 Aug 10 - 12:56 PM

If you want a full, illustrated example and definition of "geezer" used that way watch "Lock Stock and Two Smoking Barrels."

In it a geezer is a tough, "street" type guy who is involved in illegal things.

I think "hoodlum" or maybe "punk" as they were used in the 40's and 50's would be the closet American terms.

Subject: RE: BS: translations from the British
From: Newport Boy
Date: 03 Aug 10 - 12:33 PM

And by the way - British isn't a language. It's only a mongrel nationality.

Phil

Subject: RE: BS: translations from the British
From: Amos
Date: 03 Aug 10 - 12:32 PM

Flog==sell, usually informally.

A tin-eared American businessman could easily slip into the anachronistic "honey", especially if in a flirtatious mode, but he'd be more likely to follow it with "I've got to go" or "Gotta split".

Growing up in New England, the Bronx accent was legendary, but I don't know how cosmopolitan an average English detective would be.

Rarger clearly stands for "lalgel", but I do not know what lalgel means! :D


A

Subject: RE: BS: translations from the British
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 03 Aug 10 - 12:31 PM

Flog = sell
Gong = literally medal, in this reference, an award in the next honours list.
Figaro neck chains - readily to be bought all over the internet. Mr Google is your friend.
Number 5 - We wish Americans would leave English alone.
When an Englishman says "Bronx accent" he means sounding like Jimmy "Schnozzle" Durante.
Rarger = Lager

Subject: RE: BS: translations from the British
From: Jeri
Date: 03 Aug 10 - 12:30 PM

Flogged = sold
Rarger = lager
and figaro is a type of chain.

Plus, I can pretty much tell a general cockney accent from a Yorkshire one (not so good at Yorkshire vs Lancashire), so why couldn't a British person who watches American movies be able to figure out a Bronx accent?

Subject: BS: translations from the British
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 03 Aug 10 - 12:18 PM

I just read a mystery called 'Breach of Privelege' by Graham Ison. It's about a Det. Chief Inspector of Scotland Yard who's investigating the murder of an Member of Parliament.

So here we go, seeking translations and making observations about homegrown words in the book.

1. "Who did you sell it (a motorcyle) to?"

"It was a geezer in the boozer."

I love this phrase, a geezer in the boozer. Somebody ought to write a song about it.

However, in America a geezer is an old man. In England it seems to mean 'guy.'

2. "I did flog it to him, honest."

Flog?

3...strings were pulled, possibly even a gong or two promised.

gong?

4. ...a silver figaro neck chain.

Figaro? Presumably not the Barber of Seveille.

5. An American businessman turns to the widow of the MP and says, "Well, if you'll excuse me, honey, I must be going."

Take it from an actual American, 'honey' is all wrong here. To name just one thing, the rough-and-ready 'honey' does not belong with the posh 'I must be going'.

I wish English authors who want to write dialog for Americans would have an American read it and tell them when they are way off base.

6. ..the strong Bronx accent with which he spoke.

I have to tell you that I sincerely doubt whether an English detective could tell the differences among the many accents of America's Northeast.

I am an American, and I can't. (I've never lived in the Northeast.)

Here is a nice YouTube that gives examples of five accents from New York alone.

accents of New York

Then there's the similar Boston accent. There's the speech of Maine. There's even a sort-of similar accent in Michigan.

No, you can't pinpoint that somebody is from the Bronx without extensive experience modified by intelligence. (Or whatever it was the great Nero Wolfe used to say.)

7. There is a donnybrook at the Keffiyeh Embassey pursuant to an arrest. People are thrown about, profiteroles are obliterated, and a Japanese diplomat protests about "Ingrish rarger routs!".

Clearly,

Ingrish = English
routs = louts

but what are rargers?