BS: Phrases that don't travel

Subject: RE: BS: Phrases that don't travel
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 10 Sep 10 - 10:21 PM

OK, how would one use the expression "neither he is"? I assume it's Australian because I've never heard it here in the US.

Subject: RE: BS: Phrases that don't travel
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 11 Sep 10 - 05:53 AM

http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-jum2.htm

"The phrase Jumping Jehoshaphat is first recorded from Mayne Reid's Headless Horseman of 1866, but is probably older." from above link.

I thought I remembered it as a favourite expletive of Yosemite Sam, but can find no proof.

Subject: RE: BS: Phrases that don't travel
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 11 Sep 10 - 08:24 PM

Cut the last rhubarb of the season today. Reminded me of the word 'rhubarb' being used to describe a heated argument in sports, esp. baseball. Don't suppose it was ever used in that sense in UK.

Subject: RE: BS: Phrases that don't travel
From: Joybell
Date: 12 Sep 10 - 02:26 AM

Jim -- I used it when we passed the spot where an old man usually waved to us from his porch. He wasn't there and my American True-Love said,
"The man who waves isn't there today"
To which I said,
"Neither he is".

Australians of my age also use
"Neither it is/was" to affirm a negative statement.
"Neither I do/she does."
Cheers, Joy

Subject: RE: BS: Phrases that don't travel
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 12 Sep 10 - 03:06 AM

"Neither he is" &c used here in UK likewise, just as Joybell describes.

"Rhubarb" here is thought of as the word actors say over and over to give impression of background chat going on behind the main action/dialogue. Could the usage Q describes two or three posts back derive from this, in the sense of a loud hubbub in which the individual words are not all identifiable? [Note also similarity of words 'hubbub' & 'rhubarb', at that.]

~Michael~

Subject: RE: BS: Phrases that don't travel
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 12 Sep 10 - 10:06 AM

"Neither he is" might be something those mexicans say!

sandra (who lives north of the border)

Subject: RE: BS: Phrases that don't travel
From: Joybell
Date: 12 Sep 10 - 06:08 PM

Thanks, Michael and Sandra. Lots of English expressions were still current in Melbourne when I was growing up. There were more Cornish people in Victoria, Aus. in the 1850s than there were in Cornwall.
Cheers, Joy

Subject: RE: BS: Phrases that don't travel
From: frogprince
Date: 13 Sep 10 - 06:07 PM

Until a few years ago, I had never known "regular" coffee to mean anything except coffee that wasn't decaffeinated. Then I ordered coffee on Cape Cod, decaf for myself and "regular" for my wife; she takes coffee black or with milk, never with sugar. As some of you will know, her coffee came with cream and sugar. What constitutes "regular" coffee where YOU live?

Subject: RE: BS: Phrases that don't travel
From: Bill D
Date: 13 Sep 10 - 10:08 PM

I never trust phrases like 'regular'. I always spell out exactly how I want coffee or whether I want a BBQ sandwich covered with ugh cole slaw. Regional idiosyncrasies are just too scary...and I do NOT want onions on my hamburger.

Subject: RE: BS: Phrases that don't travel
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 14 Sep 10 - 01:06 AM

'Regular' is one of those weasel Transatlantic-difference words on which we had a thread not long since. To US-ers, it means what we UK-ers would mean by 'normal' or 'ordinary':   'a regular guy', to Americans, means someone who fits in to society in non-eccentric fashion, but to us would mean [or ought to mean if we are consistent] one who is punctual, and unvarying in his habits [or, in a specialist medical sense used in laxative advertising, does not suffer from constipation!].

~Michael~

Subject: RE: BS: Phrases that don't travel
From: Joybell
Date: 14 Sep 10 - 07:51 PM

We don't use "regular" for coffee here in Aus. Neither :-) do we use "sunny-side up" nor "over easy" -- for eggs.
I use quite a few colourful American phrases just because I like them and True-Love uses many Auzzie ones.
One big difference I noted in the U.S. was the fact that using "please" at the end of my order confused people. Thank you when you got your food was usual.
I'm not suggesting that Americans are any less polite. In fact, if anything, I found them more courteous.   
As children we were trained to say "please" before we got anything. As in --
"Can I have an apple?"
"What do you say?"
"Please"
Cheers, Joy

Subject: RE: BS: Phrases that don't travel
From: GUEST,CrazyEddie
Date: 15 Sep 10 - 09:30 AM

Joybell, you were lucky.
If we said "Can I have an apple please?" the standard reply was
"'Can I?' is a question for a Doctor"
Our dad insisted that "Can I?" meant "Am I capable of?"
To request something, we had to say "May I"

Subject: RE: BS: Phrases that don't travel
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 15 Sep 10 - 09:47 AM

I don't see why saying "please" would confuse anyone. Unless they thought you said "cheese."

Brits often say "cheers" meaning "thank you." That might not be understood in the US.

Subject: RE: BS: Phrases that don't travel
From: Becca72
Date: 15 Sep 10 - 10:06 AM

CrazyEddie,

Same in my neck of the woods. The question "Can I have an apple?" would have been met with "I don't know, CAN you?"

Subject: RE: BS: Phrases that don't travel
From: mayomick
Date: 15 Sep 10 - 10:07 AM

They have different standards of courtesy in the USA so I could understand that assistants might feel confused to hear the "please" at the end of a request in a shop there.

It can be a bit of a mine field . I remember two or three years ago asking a group of subway workers the direction to the platform I needed in the New York subway. I called over to them in the way I would have done in the UK or in Ireland "Which way to the A train?"
One of them called me over and said . It is polite when you're asking for directions to say , "Excuse me, would you tell me the direction to the A train."

In England or Ireland ,insisting on the "excuse me" would be ok ,but considered a bit over-formal. The tone of voice is more important than what you're say . The Australians have the tone thing down to a fine art .

Subject: RE: BS: Phrases that don't travel
From: Michael
Date: 15 Sep 10 - 12:36 PM

Joybell wrote:

As children we were trained to say "please" before we got anything. As in -- "Can I have an apple?" "What do you say?" "Please"

One of ours "Can I have a drink?" "Can I have a drink?" 2

Subject: RE: BS: Phrases that don't travel
From: Michael
Date: 15 Sep 10 - 12:46 PM

Don't know what happened to the above, formatting and words gone walkabout.

The last line should read:
"Can I have a drink?"
"I think you have forgotten something."
"Can I have a drink and a chocolate biscuit?"

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Phrases that don't travel
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 15 Sep 10 - 01:48 PM

In the Midwest, I think it's usual to say "excuse me" if you need to address a stranger for any reason, especially if the stranger is paying attention to something else when you approach them.

For practical reasons, you've got to say or do something to get their attention before you begin stating your request. Otherwise, you might be in the middle of your sentence by the time they realize you're talking to them, and they won't have been listening, so you'll have to repeat.

You don't need to say "excuse me" if the person is obviously waiting for you to begin a transaction—say, the ticket seller at a theater.

The whole topic of politeness/etiquette deserves its own thread. I think I'll start one. Give me a few minutes to compose my first message, then look for it. (Please!)

Subject: RE: BS: Phrases that don't travel
From: frogprince
Date: 15 Sep 10 - 02:04 PM

When I worked putting shoes on small people, we offered the newly shod a balloon filled from a pump by the desk. Interesting exchange one day:
    Small boy: "I want a balloon"
    Mother: What do we say when we ask for something"
    Small boy: "Gimmee!"

He was too young to actually whup for it, but his mom was embarrased, and I think he got some tutoring.

Subject: RE: BS: Phrases that don't travel
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 15 Sep 10 - 08:28 PM

In the West, the excuse me and please were standard when talking to strangers or asking them for something.
Perhaps a hangover from the days when impoliteness was met with a .45 slug.

We were taught to use may when making a request, can (see Becca, above) was considered incorrect. That seems to have changed.

Subject: RE: BS: Phrases that don't travel
From: Joybell
Date: 15 Sep 10 - 09:39 PM

I'd forgotten the "May I". At school we had to use "May I" but at home things were more relaxed.
I quickly noticed the use of "excuse me" and also the use of "Sir" in America. Here we use "excuse me" for many reasons so that the tone -- as mayomick says -- is everything. It may be a sarcastic comment about being ignored.

Then there's the round-about (?Irish) way of asking for help,
"I'd like to go to Dandenong".
To which the answer should be,
"The Dandenong train leaves from platform 5"
and not,
"Well why don't you, then".
Cheers and thank you for having me here, Joy