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Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks

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Steve Shaw 16 Feb 11 - 07:54 PM
Tangledwood 16 Feb 11 - 09:28 PM
Smokey. 16 Feb 11 - 10:07 PM
GUEST,leeneia 17 Feb 11 - 12:16 AM
Jim Carroll 17 Feb 11 - 02:24 AM
Spleen Cringe 17 Feb 11 - 02:48 AM
Bonnie Shaljean 17 Feb 11 - 03:29 AM
Dave Hanson 17 Feb 11 - 03:38 AM
The Fooles Troupe 17 Feb 11 - 03:45 AM
GUEST,S.T.M. 17 Feb 11 - 03:47 AM
Folkiedave 17 Feb 11 - 03:53 AM
Bonnie Shaljean 17 Feb 11 - 03:54 AM
Bonnie Shaljean 17 Feb 11 - 04:04 AM
GUEST,Graham Ward 17 Feb 11 - 04:04 AM
GUEST,Graham Ward 17 Feb 11 - 04:08 AM
Bonnie Shaljean 17 Feb 11 - 04:08 AM
Bainbo 17 Feb 11 - 04:15 AM
gnomad 17 Feb 11 - 04:24 AM
Jim Carroll 17 Feb 11 - 05:25 AM
John J 17 Feb 11 - 05:33 AM
Jack Campin 17 Feb 11 - 05:36 AM
Arthur_itus 17 Feb 11 - 06:02 AM
theleveller 17 Feb 11 - 06:21 AM
GUEST,Captain farrell 17 Feb 11 - 06:21 AM
Steve Shaw 17 Feb 11 - 06:34 AM
Steve Shaw 17 Feb 11 - 06:37 AM
Spleen Cringe 17 Feb 11 - 06:46 AM
Arthur_itus 17 Feb 11 - 06:56 AM
Ruth Archer 17 Feb 11 - 07:03 AM
Jim Carroll 17 Feb 11 - 07:29 AM
GUEST,davemc 17 Feb 11 - 07:41 AM
Jack Campin 17 Feb 11 - 07:45 AM
Steve Shaw 17 Feb 11 - 07:48 AM
Will Fly 17 Feb 11 - 08:10 AM
Arthur_itus 17 Feb 11 - 08:12 AM
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Subject: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Feb 11 - 07:54 PM

Well, I rang the box office at The Phoenix, Exeter, this morning for three tickets for their gig in March. I was stunned to discover that this gig is standing-only. Well, that put paid to me for a start, what with my dodgy joints, and the other two who were coming with me are both over 60. When I asked the box office lady how come a folk gig in a venue with seating is standing-only, she told me that the Phoenix had no control over the matter, it was what the artists insisted on and it was done to pack more people in and augment ticket sales and that they'd have no problem selling out (I noted that tickets weren't exactly cheap at fifteen quid - fine - but fifteen quid to stand up??)

Nice one, girls. Ageism rules OK!


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: Tangledwood
Date: 16 Feb 11 - 09:28 PM

Well, I wonder? I went to the Unthanks concert here in Brisbane a couple of weeks ago and everybody there had a seat. The only time I've heard of standing only was at a concert last year, can't remember the artist, and it was found out that it was the promoter pushing to pack more in. Nobody from my circle of friends went. Greed will ultimately loose out.


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: Smokey.
Date: 16 Feb 11 - 10:07 PM

Ring the box office and ask them if they can accommodate a coach party of wheelchair users, then tell them you'll ring back later to confirm the booking.


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 12:16 AM

Good for you, Steve. I wouldn't go either.

Making people uncomfortable is not what traditional music is about. Traditional music is one way of being companions.


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 02:24 AM

"Making people uncomfortable is not what traditional music is about"
No, but in this case it seems that making as much money as possible is - whatever happened to the good old days of bums on seats??
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 02:48 AM

Plenty of gigs are standing room only. Venues will make accommodations for people with disabilities - they have to.


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 03:29 AM

But standing-room-only cos the SEATS have already been sold, not because there weren't any. Not allowing any of your audience to sit down is just manipulative, and sends a clear message.


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 03:38 AM

Shame on them, it's predjudiced against disabled people and must surely be against the law.

Dave H


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 03:45 AM

I'd say for various reasons including safety and visibiloty, the wheelies would have to be seated up the front - how much is a wheelchair to hire?


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: GUEST,S.T.M.
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 03:47 AM

Hold your horses guys, this was probably just a misunderstanding. I very much doubt that they would demand that everyone was standing, and even if someone has- I don't think we should be blaming "the girls" but maybe management or and agent. It's very unfair just to jump down throats in this way.

Simply ring the venue, explain that you need to have a seat for health reasons and I'm sure they will accommodate you.


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: Folkiedave
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 03:53 AM

It occurs to me that if the "seated" venue is not big enough then they ought to be in larger venues. That way no-one gets upset.


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 03:54 AM

I think wheelchair-users would probably be accommodated - but what about the rest of their fans? Including those who have difficulty standing for that long even if they're not actually confined to a wheelchair.

Unless these artists give a convincing alternative reason as to why they have made this rule, it tells me that the comfort of the people who have travelled and paid to see them is not a priority in their thinking. And if this conclusion wrong, they would then need to explain why.


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 04:04 AM

Whether this stipulation was made by the girls or their management doesn't change the fact of having to stand. It's still - IMHO - poor treatment of a paying audience, and I can't see any reason for it except profit-driven ones.


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: GUEST,Graham Ward
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 04:04 AM

For the sake of those jumping to conclusions, there is disabled access at the Phoenix. They have a number of spaces for wheelchair users, and offer free seats for those who need personal assistance.
This is a major tour; some gigs are all standing, many offer a choice. "Manipulative"? "Augmenting ticket sales"? How about simply ensuring that as many people as possible get to see them?
Not everyone going to a folk gig wants to sit down in a comfy chair, and £15 isn't particularly expensive for one of the best live bands around - in any genre.


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: GUEST,Graham Ward
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 04:08 AM

By the way, The Unthanks is more than "the girls", and if you're looking for a mystery manager, he's playing the piano, and married to Rachel. Adrian's email address is on the band's website; suggest that you ask him about this.


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 04:08 AM

> offer free seats for those who need personal assistance

So someone who wants/needs to sit down can do so?


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: Bainbo
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 04:15 AM

That's curious. Are they insisting on it, I wonder? I clicked on the sites of a few other venues the Unthanks are visiting. Although I by no means saw all of them, I didn't find any other standing-only ones.

But I noticed that Nottingham Glee Club has the ability to do standing-only if it wants, as that's the arrangement for 2-Tone legends The Beat. The Unthanks' gig there, however, carries the symbol for "unallocated seating".

Quite often, if there's a standing area available for a gig I'll book for that, as it's sometimes fun to have a bit of a dance instead of shuffling in your seat. Probably not for the Unthanks, though. And the venues where I've been able to do that always have seating available too, for those who prefer.


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: gnomad
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 04:24 AM

As a child, about 45 years ago, I attended one of the Promenade concerts at the Albert Hall, folks sat around on the floor until it started, but were then required to stand up. As I was too small to see anything anyway I sat among the adult legs and heard the concert just the same, and my Mum (who at 5ft0ins could also see very little) came close to thumping the jobsworth who tried to stop me. I don't know whether they still enforce standing, I doubt they would get away with it now, but we never went as promenaders again.

A wheelchair requires space to stand, and I suppose that the organisers could just allow wheelchair users to be in among the rest. They would get the same view that any height-lacking person would have, the ultimate in non-discrimination, it could be argued. Please note that I do not advocate this, and would be surprised if no special arrangements were in hand. The whole idea seems based on the pop-concert model, but then that is what some of the new acts seem to want, I don't.


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 05:25 AM

Why on earth is disabled access even an issue here?
It should go without saying that those in wheelchairs should be accommodated - as other's have suggested, that is the law of the land.
It's the 'pack the punters in like sardines so we can make losta wonga' philosophy which is so bloody offensive - whether demonatrated by the artists or their managers.
If it is the latter, that could be quickly cleared up by the Unthanks (what an apt name) finding a more compassionate agency to represent them.
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: John J
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 05:33 AM

Bellowhead visit a concert hall local to me from time to time. The first time they came it was a 'fully seated' performance, since then it's always been standing only.

I've got knackered knees, the Mrs JJ is slightly disabled and is unable to stand for very long although she doesn't need a wheelchair.

Sadly we don't get to see Bellowhead locally any more.

JJ


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: Jack Campin
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 05:36 AM

They have a number of spaces for wheelchair users, and offer free seats for those who need personal assistance.

You don't need to be in a wheelchair to find it difficult to stand for the length of a concert.

Not everyone going to a folk gig wants to sit down in a comfy chair

Patronizing shit. Steve wasn't offered any kind of chair at all, let alone a comfy one.


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 06:02 AM

Steve has not asked the right questions and quite honestly is being unfair by posting this thread. I decided to give them a ring and see what they had available other than standing as I suffer with Arthritus and have circulation issues in my legs, but am not using a wheelchair, which I explained to them. They were extremely helpful and gave me this information.

So, let's get the facts straight.

They have a balcony box at the back of the auditorium that accomodates 10 fixed seats and space behind for wheelchair users. They have a stair lift for anybody that cannot walk up the stairs.

Currently, they have 6 fixed seats still available as at 10:45 AM Thursday 17th Feb and space for wheelchairs.

You need to explain that you are unable to stand, but are not in a wheelchair to be able to book the seats.

I hope that helps a bit.


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: theleveller
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 06:21 AM

"Bellowhead visit a concert hall local to me from time to time. The first time they came it was a 'fully seated' performance,"

I have to say that I'd be very disappointed if I wasn't able to get up and pogo to Bellowhead - that's part of the fun for me but, fortunately, I still have full use of my legs (when sober, at least). For bands like them a half-and-half arrangement would meet everyone's requirements. I don't know about the Unthanks - I'm not a fan so I wouldn't be going anyway.


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: GUEST,Captain farrell
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 06:21 AM

This is a serious issue.We have been to quite a few gigs and standing only was not made clear.When you consider the average age of the audience/ticket prices the least you can expect is a.comfortable seat b.good sound c.good view d. perfectly clear that there are support acts on the bill or not.e.dont let people people stand in front of the seated audience.


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 06:34 AM

OK Arthur, I'll expand on the conversation I had with the lady in the box office, which was quite lengthy - your criticism is covered, I assure you. I explained that I was unable to stand for the duration of a gig (I'm by no means wheelchair-bound, however, so wheeelchair access isn't applicable in my own case). She said there was a limited number of seats for disabled people and she would find me one. But when I told her that three of us wanted to go she said that finding three seats (two of which would be for my non-disabled companions, though, as I said, they are over 60) would not be possible. Well I wanted to take one of the two people as a birthday treat (the other being my wife), and there's no way that we would want to have been separated in any way, and I'm not the sort of bloke anyway who could cope with the privilege (even had it been offered, which it wasn't) of three of us smugly sitting down when most of the rest of the audience, some of whom might be at least equally deserving, were standing. My opening post relates accurately the reason she gave for the gig being standing-only. Another slightly off-putting aspect for us, all of whom would have had to face a fairly long drive home afterward (55 miles for me), was that the doors don't open until 8.30. We could have lived with that and I'm sure there's a good reason for it, but there is a support act as well as the Unthanks and I can't imagine what time it might finish. So I did ask all the right questions, Arthur, which I hope you'll now accept.


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 06:37 AM

And I should apologise to Jack for not mentioning the offer of one seat just for me which renders one line of his post inapplicable through no fault of his own.


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 06:46 AM

Is it just us ex-punks who find this whole thread slightly weird?


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 06:56 AM

Ah Ok Steve. Fair comment and my apologies.

It is a big isuue, when to all intents and purposes, you look fit enough, but in reality have a disabilty like what you or I have.


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 07:03 AM

Your response does highlight the crux of the issue, Spleen. This strategy says a lot about who the Unthanks think their audience is. For a lot of people under 50 who cut their teeth on the mainstream live music scene, seated gigs are weird. They are the kind of thing your parents, or people who enjoy classical music, expect. When I first started going to folk festivals, I found seated concert marquees very strange and somewhat staid, though I came round.

I can only think that the Unthanks reckon that the majority of their audience is both from a slightly younger generation, and perhaps a bit of a crossover audience as well; ie, not pure folkies.

It's a risky strategy; I get why Bellowhead do it - it's the nature of the music. But with a band that's more contemplative and doesn't require jigging about, it's an intriguing decision.


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 07:29 AM

Ageist greedy bunch of shits,
Sounds a good reason to give them a miss

Must try and get a couple more verses!
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: GUEST,davemc
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 07:41 AM

The Unthanks are obviously just maximising the moolah. Their wispy vocals are hardly an act most people would want to dance to.


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: Jack Campin
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 07:45 AM

Is there a correlation between the kind of places people drink in and their choice of concert venue?

If I don't see a free seat in a pub (and, further, a free seat that isn't against the bar and isn't a high stool) I walk out. And I find all-standing gigs uncomfortable, as well as rather silly if people aren't dancing.

The generation that likes all-standing gigs also drinks in places like Wetherspoons.


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 07:48 AM

From what I've seen of them I like them and I will definitely look out for future gigs (seated ones, naturally). I'm a bit disappointed by this and, to me, it somehow doesn't chime very well with the sort of people-centred, more sensitive ethos that you might expect, er, folk music to embrace.


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: Will Fly
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 08:10 AM

My sympathies, Steve. I understand your dilemma. I've suffered from sciatica for quite a few years and - though I'm not in any way disabled - no matter who or what the concert is, I will not attend one where I can't sit for some of the time. I'm happy to bop around for quite a bit of an evening, but continuous standing is impossible without back pain. Just a fact of life. When I play at a band ceilidh gig, I stand to play for the dances, then sit down between tunes while the caller puts the dancers through their paces.

I've missed some potentially good performances by great artists through it, but I just say - another time...


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 08:12 AM

IMHO having seen them live, they are deffo Concert style, not standing style.

I like them very much, but the intimate concert is the way.


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: SteveMansfield
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 08:19 AM

A few years back I saw Capercaillie at an all-standing venue, and the discomfort definitely detracted from the music.

As others have said you can understand it for Bellowhead or Salsa Celtica, but ... The Unthanks?

All very odd.


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: GUEST,Old Sceptic
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 08:21 AM

I wonder if there any conclusions to be drawn that they don't seem to be on any folk festivals these days. Last time I saw them at a folk fest, half the audience left out of boredom.

Maybe they are more exciting these days, and get the audience jumping about.

It seems they are marketing themselves away from the 'folk' label and are aiming at a more crossover audience.

Nothing wrong with that as such - makes good business sense. Let's face it - the Laura Marling/Mumfords audience is potentially much bigger.


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 08:23 AM

The generation that likes all-standing gigs also drinks in places like Wetherspoons

Jack - are you trying to corner the market in sweeping generalisations? Anyway, my local Wetherspoons is always rammed with full-time pissheads in theiir 60s and over...

I agree with you, Ruth, about the seated festival concerts. I found them odd and - yes - staid at first, but have gradually (and slightly reluctantly) got used to them. Of course, there is another good argument for seated festival marquees and that's to stymie the attempts of the lawnchair massive to stake out a huge area of territory for themselves, their mates and their picnic mats and hampers... and even in some cases face away from the stage as a part of their territorial pissings.

Your description of the Unthanks audience refects my own experience of seeing them live... last time (not including festivals) it was at the Band on the Wall in Manchester. I didn't go upstairs where the seats were, though. It might have been a more folky crowd up there than in the mainly standing area downstairs. Next time it'll be Manchester Cathedral. Plenty of seats there, though I reckon they'll be hard enough that people will be glad for an excuse to stand...


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: GUEST,Gail
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 08:57 AM

"If it is the latter, that could be quickly cleared up by the Unthanks (what an apt name) finding a more compassionate agency to represent them."
Jim Carroll

I believe their keyboard player (Rachel's husband) is the band's manager and exclusive agent.


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: Vic Smith
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 09:12 AM

the Unthanks (what an apt name)
Well, Carol, (what an appropriate name), it is the name they were born with so I reckon they should use it. Their dad George Unthank was (is?) a member of that very fine folk band, The Keelers and the sisters have grown up in the music. Don't like them as singers myself, but seeing the pair of them running a festival clog/step dance workshop to around 100 mainly teenage, mainly female participants made me realise what an important job they do. The enthusiasm and skill with which they conducted their workshop won my admiration.


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: GUEST,mattkeen
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 09:12 AM

I have been to that venue several times and none of them were seated concerts - it may be just the venue you know

Corn Exchange in Cambridge is the same.


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 09:22 AM

"I believe their keyboard player (Rachel's husband) is the band's manager and exclusive agent."
Which makes the suggestion made that it may be the action of their manager somewhat superfluous.
".......The enthusiasm and skill with which they conducted their workshop won my admiration......"
None of which excuses their attitude towards a potential audience who may not wish to, or be able to stand throughout their performance.
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 09:26 AM

Some interesting posts here. And there's nothing that gets a folky audience arguing like the sit v stand debate - all good training for Cambridge.
Whilst I was accused of patronising shit for saying it, but not everyone wants to sit at a folk concert (whatever that means). I prefer the atmosphere at standing gigs - OK, I'm never going to jump around watching the Unthanks in the way I will for Bellowhead, but I feel more involved, I like to be able to get right to the front - and even a front row seat makes me feel like I'm a passive consumer, not that I'm part of the experience.
I saw Steve Earle twice on his last (acoustic) tour, once all sitting, once (mostly) standing. Again, not the most dance-friendly artist - but the atmosphere between the two shows was completely different - and undoubtedly better - when we were standing.
I don't think the Unthanks can win here - already dismissed by many traditionalists as not being folky enough, now they get condemned as money grabbers for targeting a younger audience more used to standing at concerts.
Someone said they don't play folk festivals any more - nonsense. They played Cambridge and Moseley last year (to excellent reviews) as well as the less folky Glastonbury, Green Man and End of the Road.
In an ideal world every venue would have a choice of standing or sitting. Even Bellowhead are playing a short series of all seater events this spring in the interests of those who can't or don't want to stand (my small kids are refusing to go - having danced themselves to exhaustion the last time they saw them, they can't see the point in sitting).


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 09:43 AM

Forgive me for not particularly being in sympathy with a folk band - any band, probably - who "target younger audiences." I suppose they feel they don't need my sympathy.


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 09:46 AM

Word is the Manchester Cathedral gig will be standing only, but the misericords will be available for those who want to look as if they're standing but can't take the pace.

Suitably beguiled by their contribution to Oak Ash Thorn, we bought The Bairns the other day, & a quite stunning piece of work it is - though their version of Sea Song has a lot to live up to:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66obirsT8hI

They don't make 'em like that any more - check Dave Stewart's organ solo which comes in over Hugh Hopper's fuzz bass at arount 2.45. Rarely does music get any better...


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: tritoneman
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 10:02 AM

This is a debate that can go on for ever. It's clearly a case of not being able to please all of the people all of the time. I'm about to hit 60 but rather like the atmosphere of stand up gigs - depending on who's performing. I don't think I'd want to sit down still at a Bellowhead gig
but enjoy sitting down to listen to people like Martin Carthy or Karine Polwart. What I consider to be the best Show of Hands gig that I've been to was a stand up gig at the Exeter Phoenix.
I suppose the only real compromise is, as has been suggested earlier, to make sure that there is plenty of provision for people who can't, dont' want to or find it difficult, to stand. Life gets so complicated.....


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 10:51 AM

6 seats available for people who need them, SIX is that a joke, they obviously only want the audience to be exclusively the ' jump up and down on the spot who think it's dancing type. '

Dave H


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: stallion
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 10:58 AM

The Duchess in York is all standing accept for a couple of "blisters" either side of the main standing area which are remote from the stage area and one needs to bag one early. The ceiling is very low, barely 2.4 metres, the whole place is painted black or very similiar, the sound reproduction is only as good as your sound engineer can get it as, acoustically, is dead as soon as the standing crowd fill the stage area with the sound compressed into a half meter, metre if everyone is small, above everyones head. I have been to three "folk" concerts there one big name whose sound system was so set up they sounded like a heavy metal thrash band (which I think the venue is highly suitable for) and the others were local bands using the venues sound engineer who obviously had never done anything other than thrash bands " who needs to hear the singer " . In my opinion the beer is awful, very expensive and i would not pay for a ticket to get into a folk concert there (all my tickets were complimentary). I don't know if staging "folk" artists at the Duchess is a money making thing, I doubt it, I think it is a genuine attempt to bring an eclectic mix of music to larger venues that are not concerts halls but sadly the venue is most unsuitable for anything other than moshing about in front of a drum and bass band (having got pissed before you got in there)


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 11:01 AM

are ticket holders strictly prohibited from taking in their own fold-up garden furniture ?


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: tritoneman
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 11:05 AM

are ticket holders strictly prohibited from taking in their own fold-up garden furniture ?



Probably. They'll wheel out some Health & Safety risk assessment 'concern' etc etc. Nice idea though!


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 12:49 PM

I don't have any diagnosed condition that stops me from standing for extended periods - I just find it unpleasant. Any concert, where all-standing is the expected norm, would not appear on my list of things-to-do, no matter how good the performers.

DC


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: G-Force
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 01:15 PM

The Unthanks? They were probably worried the audience would go to sleep.

By the way, you're probably not allowed to sit down in a standing area. This is certainly true of the Globe Theatre in London - if you're in standing you have to stand.


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: The Sandman
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 01:15 PM

I would rather go to see Rosie Stewart.
I once had the pleasure of sitting next to one of the Unthanks, when she was singing a song, I couldn't understand a word of what she was singing, however her voice was tuneful and pleasant in a little girly way, each to their own, personally being able to understand the words is of paramount importance.
If I was allowed to have the choice of the Unthanks singing in what I presume was the English Language , or a good IRISH SINGER, singing in GAELIC[a langauge I don't understand fluently]I would choose the latter.There is more to singing than just a pleasant voice.


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: Marje
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 01:15 PM

I wouldn't have gone to an all-standing gig even when I was young, because, like others in my family, I have always found that standing tends to make me feel faint, and if I don't manage to get out quickly when that starts, I will eventually have to be carried out. Now that I have varicose veins to compound my problems, there's no way I'd go to a concert with no seats. The same must apply to people who may be pregnant, or recovering from an illness, or with back pain, etc.

As with much of disablity discrimination, those with registered disabilities can expect (and rightly so) to have their needs met, but the much larger numbers whose conditions are more marginal and less identifiable have their needs ignored. All we can do is vote with our feet and boycott such events.

Marje


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: The Sandman
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 01:29 PM

No sitting, no sleeping, no spitting, no swearing and presumably no shagging, sounds like real fun, the sort of thing Oliver Cromwell, might have enjoyed,you cant even lie back and think of England,yours disgusted Tunbridge Wells.


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: FaldingworthDave
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 01:35 PM

You never mentioned Farting GSS Nothing like a good fart with hundreds of people cuddled up to each other.


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 01:42 PM

I think they should have Seth Lakeman with them, then at least the audience can whoop it up and dance till dawn...


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 01:50 PM

Actually, this reminds me of when Seth and the Unthanks were sharing the Ham Marquee one evening. The Unthanks were on first....

I was outside, watching the fiasco of Season Ticket Holders not being able to get in, and a steward who could have been Hitler, with steam coming out of his ears...I had to intervene....

What had happened was that many folks wanted to see Seth, they were busting to get in...but they wouldn't let any more people in, despite many of the seats not being filled. This was because, back then, folks sat where they wanted, often leaving one or two seats spare, in between other folks. I asked the steward to get folks to move up, but he wasn't having it, so I asked him a bit louder...and he still wasn't having it, soooooo I told him my husband was one of the Directors and could I have his name please...Strangely, he got an annoucement made immediately, asking everyone to move up, fill up the spaces, and thus, more folks could get in...

At half time loads of people left, when the Unthanks had finished..and I have to say it was the older audience that went (it was er...very dreary music and songs, to my ears, is all I can say)...Then, the younger folks were able to pour in and watch Seth...

Seth had been told his audience had to remain sitting, but he felt that was crazy and told folks to dance if they wanted to..so we all flung Health & Safety to the wind and got up and danced at the edges and back of the Marquee..Seth coudln't have stopped us all dancing anyway, because well....you just can't NOT dance to Seth's music, can you?

Little Hitler Steward was NOT a Happy Bunny at this point, but we all were and didn't give a hoot...Seth and his audience had a GREAT time that night...

Ah, happy memories. :0)


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: Art Thieme
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 01:59 PM

Not only would I not stand for it, but I'd just say, "Thanks, but UNTHANKS"


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 02:04 PM

I've just heard that there's an item on the Unthanks in Radio 4's Front Row this evening (after the Archers) - but I suspect this topic won't feature!

Kitty


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 02:27 PM

uuhhmmm... Why not contact he artists and their management people about this issue?

I mean ok have a moan here on Mudcat if you like. But then do something about it. An email or letter explaining how disappointed you and your (insert number of friends) were to miss a concert due to restrictions against people who cannot stand for long periods may make them think about the needs of the fans who are their customers.


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 02:33 PM

Here is the email address to contact them

adrian@rabblerousermusic.com


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: GUEST,Graham
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 02:36 PM

Listening to Front Row right now. Enjoying what I'm hearing of the new album (lots of Australian Radio sessions easily found online if you're interested). Is it folk? The question that's echoed down the ages.


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 02:57 PM

Well I just did that VT


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: GUEST,999
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 02:58 PM

I'm at a loss. Who are the Unthanks?


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 03:00 PM

http://rachelunthank.com/index.htm


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: GUEST,999
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 03:08 PM

Thank you, Arthur.


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 03:11 PM

Guest999 ~ I found out by just googling them on youtube. I found they had quite nice voices but could have been subject of posts on a thread I OPd last Nov which ran till 25th of last month on why British singers often insist on singing British [or their own] songs with American accents. The thread was called 'Mid-Atlantic accent. Why?' ~ a question I found myself asking about the Northumbrian Unthanks.

~M~


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 03:31 PM

No problems

The Unthanks perform The Testimony of Patience Kershaw

The Unthanks perform Sexy Sadie

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftAlWsvG3Ns&feature=related

The Unthanks on Later with Jools Holland Live BBC Folk Northumbria 27th October 2009

You either luv em or ate em!

I managed to get a chat with them once and they are really nice young ladies. Very nice to talk to and doing what they believe in.


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: GUEST,Chris Murray
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 04:18 PM

I can't stand for long periods of time (that's why I need my chair at Cambridge) so I never go anywhere where I have to stand. Several local venues have seat upstairs and standing downstairs, which suits everyone. At one all-standing concert I asked if I could sit down and the man at the Box Office told me that I could sit down but I wouldn't be able to see anything!


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: The Sandman
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 04:29 PM

ok so the diction on Patience Kershaw is much better, but the instruments[although well arranged are a little too loud in relation to the voice]the lead singers phrasing[a bit breathy, and interpretation a bit bland.
But, an imaginative instrumental arrangement, the lead singer seemed to lack projection, is that a result of perpetually working with mikes, however it was much better than my previous experience of them, and potentially they could be very good.


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 04:36 PM

They are very good GSS, but maybe not to your liking.

Let's be fair, You are not to everybodys liking as well. But I am not going to criticise you.

Thank goodness we are all different!


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 04:41 PM

Quite so, Arthur; so I don't agree with your comment above that 'you either love them or hate them'. I do neither. I admire their voices, react negatively to their mid-Atlantic delivery: but in sum neither love nor hate them; simply recognise them as talented but not my sort of thing.

~Michael~


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 04:44 PM

Michael
i know quite a few who dislike them, so maybe that was a wrong comment. "You luv en or ate em. They just dislike their style.


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: GUEST,folkiedave
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 04:57 PM

so we all flung Health & Safety to the wind

What a great idea.

And had anyone been injured you would have said?........

And what did the Directors (including your ex-husband) say to this? Do you actually realise what an arse you appear to be?

I am no more health and safety obsessive than the next person. But I do know accidents in crowds happen a lot. Usually because some pillock has ignored the Health and Safety rules in force.

Ever seen a festival venue emptied for fire? Or a heart attack. On both those occasions the stewards ensured people's safety. They don't need smart arses like you.

Tell you what Lizzie if you have any friends in America - go and visit them there and throw a few Health and Safety rules to the wind. See how long you stay out of jail.

And by the way I live close to Hillsborough. I heard the ambulances.

WTF this has to do with the Unthanks I don't really know. Sorry for the thread drift folks, but I didn't start it.


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 18 Feb 11 - 02:48 AM

Alf and Sadie at Sidmouth...mebbe the Ham marquee should set up a mosh pit for the cloggers?

Unthanks music is variable to me. Just like many artists. There is stuff I love, stuff I like and stuff I say Nothanks to.

The girls did a brill (very sensitive) job on the BBC documentary on English trad dance late last year. For that they get a thumbs up from me. And I am neither English nor dancer.

signed - Tamara from Virginia USA with no sense of rhythm (i.e. having a collection of other peoples left feet over which I have no control).

p.s. If ever I want to attend a concert that is standing only, I will explain my physical limits and request a folding chair. If refused (which I think unlikely) then I will take the matter to the performer's management and finally to the performers themselves.

p.p.s. As to the matter of not planning for the older physically limited fan, please start writing to the performers. They need to know that either management or venues are selecting their audiences for them.


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: stallion
Date: 18 Feb 11 - 03:37 AM

Thank you A for the links. From the comments I was expecting to see a load of cobblers, they are not bad, take note from what Dick said about the breathy singing, it annoys the shit out of me but the kids are buying it, don't really see the "mid atlantic accent" maybe a bid to make geordie understandable. Seems to me that they have two audiences and they will not please all of them all of the time but I think have the ability to do both. Oh dear, Patience Kershaw, very flat interpretation in my opinion I have heard better interpretations, that is quite a personal veiw and we are all different. Back to the thread, what really dictates the standing / sitting thing is the performance. There is a band in Cumbria (almost a Pogues tribute band), Bag of Spanners, who are very good and almost impossible to sit still to as were the York band Los Yobbos. As Lizzie pointed out sometimes it doesn't feel right to sit still. But for the four tracks I heard that doesn't seem so for their gig and may not be the venue for them. The problem lay with their management not them. The probable scenario is that someone will aproach the management and say I have ten venues all over the country you can have all ten for this price, boom boom, one phone call ten gigs.


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: GUEST,Thomas Hine
Date: 18 Feb 11 - 03:57 AM

I have enjoyed the Unthanks, and while sitting, and can see why sitting should be an option - but the pointlessness of gigs where you have to sit through a jig or a reel is far more common and annoying in my experience. With people like Bellowhead this is obvious, but others like Katherine Tickell the mood changes, and with it the position!

This shows me why festivals are so good - Trowbridge with limited seating at the back, an open sided marquee with grass outside and lots of floor where you can do as you will - the result? Pleasant anarchy! So much better than you MUST stand/sit.(perhaps this preference is because I am 29?)

Bring a deckchair or 3 to the Pheonix.


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Feb 11 - 04:01 AM

They're self managed. Adrian McNally is agent, producer, pianist and husband. First album was released on his label too.


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: Silas
Date: 18 Feb 11 - 04:22 AM

OK.

The Unthanks and anyone else for that matter are not only in the business of entertaining us, they also have to make a living. I would never attend an all standing event, however, if it is advertised as an all standing event, I or anyone else has the choice to attend or not. I really don't see what the problem is. If you don't want to stand, don't go, simples. There is no need to slag them off about it.


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: Allan Conn
Date: 18 Feb 11 - 04:23 AM

"don't really see the "mid atlantic accent" maybe a bid to make geordie understandable"

I kind of agree with you there. To me they if anything they often put a stress on their own local accent

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0q24_9K9tAw


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 18 Feb 11 - 04:49 AM

I apologise. My comment about the Mid-Atlantic accent was due to insufficiently careful listening. Having listened to Here's The Tender Coming, I fully accept that it is their own accent in which they sing.

Very sorry about that.

~Michael~


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: Marje
Date: 18 Feb 11 - 04:53 AM

A partly-seated concert would seem to be a good solution, but I can't see that putting the seats at the back would work - the seated people wouldn't be able to see. You'd either have to put the seats at the front or (better) have a half-length row of seats down the middle, with space at the sides for people who preferred to stand/dance.

Narje


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 18 Feb 11 - 05:29 AM

Well said Silas.

May i also correct one thing.

Adrian is no longer the agent. That I know, through an email conversation with him.


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: Black belt caterpillar wrestler
Date: 18 Feb 11 - 07:26 AM

Sorry to be controversial but I think that i'm actually more of a fan of Rachael and Becky's father George!
Might be a session and dance team player thing.


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: The Sandman
Date: 18 Feb 11 - 07:35 AM

I agree Black belt,
Arthuritis, to the contrary I enjoyed Patience Kershaw, however my constructive criticism, was just that.. constructive criticism.


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 18 Feb 11 - 07:55 AM

Fair enough Dick


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: GUEST,THE UNTHANKS
Date: 18 Feb 11 - 08:09 AM

Oh behalf of The Unthanks, I'd like to thank 'Arthur itis' for drawing this matter to our attention, and giving us the opportunity to see if we can do something about it, and I would like firstly to address the original author of this thread directly. Unfortunately, the only way I can do that is through this board.

Steve, I'm sorry to hear about your experience. I have spoken directly with Exeter Phoenix today. It is true that they have an allocation for wheelchair users, and a number of seats for those unable to stand for whatever reason. The number of seats depends on the number of wheelchair users - ie. if there are no wheelchair users, there are 18 seats, but the more wheelchair users, the more seats they remove to make space. They also liaise personally with wheelchair users to ask whether they would prefer to be in this allocated space (raised at that back, like a balcony, accessed with an elevator) or right down the front where they are given and welcome to have front row access amongst the standers. The limited seating available is given out on a first come first served basis, but there is also some subjectivity to the way in which it is granted. Box office staff are encouraged to make sure that they don't give the seating away willy-nilly, in case the next caller has physical ailments that entirely prohibit them from standing. This assessment is also subject to the point at which the enquiry is made, ie. if there is only 3 days to go and there is still 80% of the seating available, they are more likely to grant seating than they are if there is a month to go and only 20% available. Such a system is clearly open to interpretation, which is a good thing (rules can be flexible to common sense and human judgement) and a bad thing (one interpreter of the rules might be more aggressive or relaxed than another!).

I have spoken with the centre's director, and he has promised to alert box office staff to your enquiry Steve, so that if you call again, they can assess your enquiry again. As we don't have contact details for you, that's as much as we can do. The director's personal opinion at this point? - with you having some physical difficulties and your companions being in their sixties, he felt that you should be granted the 3 tickets you require, based on a combination of your needs and the fact that the majority of the seating is still available.. in other words, you have no cause to feel that you are taking up the last of the allocated seating, to the detriment of someone with greater needs, as was one of your concerns.

This I hope, addresses your concerns, but perhaps not the wider issue of standing gigs, and the resulting scarcity of provision for those who want or need to sit. Firstly, I don't think we've ever done a show where there hasn't been some sort of provision for seating. But regardless, the decision to do standing gigs is never a money making consideration. Sure, it may be a decision based on providing more tickets for people to see us, but that's not a financial move, it's a move to make sure that the amount of people that want to come and see us in a given town are not disappointed! Off the top of my head, I can think of two venues - Exeter Phoenix and Norwich Arts Centre - that we now do mainly standing, when once we used to play those venues fully seated. The reason is partly because there aren't suitable larger venues in those towns, and even if there is, it is partly because we value the intimacy of small venues, and try and find ways of resisting the move to larger, less personal venues. Sometimes the only way to do that without disappointing fans with a show that is sold out before they know it, is to go for standing downstairs. The decision to hold on to a smaller venue rather than moving on to a larger one is entirely with our audience in mind, from the point of view of intimacy, communication, sound quality, atmosphere. We are also in the business of trying to honour the little guys who supported us from the start, as opposed to moving on to a bigger venue without them. In some cases, that results in us playing a venue on consecutive nights, so that we can meet demand without increasing the venue size. When that happens, we incur twice the overheads by playing a venue twice, instead of moving to a venue that would only incur the costs of playing one night. Sometimes it involves us staying loyal to a small promoter, rather than accepting the advances of bigger fish. Furthermore, we have found that our standing shows have electric atmospheres, that the audience is much more responsive, and because people end up much closer to the stage, the connection we get with the whites of peoples
eyes is invaluable, in terms of communication, and breaking down the barrier between stage and audience, between artist and viewer.

We enjoy playing in churches, theatres, folk clubs, concert halls, sticky standing indie clubs, folk festivals, mainstream festivals and we enjoy the challenge of thriving in all of them, and I make no apologies for it, because the reason we do so is to please and attract people from as many different demographics as possible. For example, in Leeds, mostly we play at Howard Assembly Rooms, which is a beautiful seated venue belonging to Opera North. The average age of our audience there is probably about 50. But last time we played Leeds, we played the Brudnell Social Club, which is a standing rock venue, and the audience was completely different. The purpose of playing the latter venue is to develop new and younger audiences for folk music. The only way to do that is to go to them - to play where they go, where they relate to. But we're not on a single mission. The next Leeds show is back at the stately Howard Assembly Rooms, where we risk alienating (not to mention out-pricing) our younger audience, just as we risk alienating our older audience by playing Brudnell Social Club. We do this because we are philanthropists, interested in preaching to the unconverted. It is not that we are more interested in one audience more than another. It is more that we are prepared to do as much as we can to introduce folk music to as many music lovers as possible. We are no less interested in playing to the old than we are the young. And even if we were less interested in 'folkies' and the folk world than in more mainstream worlds, how on earth could we hope to distinguish a 60 year old folkie from a 60 year old into everything from Elvis Presley to Laura Marling to Rage Against the Machine?! The point there is, other types of music have older fans too.

I agree completely that some venues don't try hard enough with their access, and it is something we take seriously. It seems to me however that Exeter Phoenix take it very seriously, and have a page dedicated to it on their website. In my own personal opinion, there are very few great venues left, and we frequently feel that whatever option we take, it is more a lesser evil than a great option. Please bear in mind also however, that while I have been manager, agent, label, producer, pianist and tour manager for a long time, I am no longer our agent and not always in full knowledge or control of our touring plans. We work very hard, but we have gone past the point at which we have time to do everything ourselves. The reason we have tried to deal directly and personally with every facet of the music industry for so long (apart from the cold fact that we can't afford professionals to do it for us) is precisely so that we have as much control over our music and our audience's experience as possible, guarding against the prospect of success equaling the delegation of decisions to people who may not be as sensitive to our wishes and concerns. 'Arthur Itis', who brought this matter to my attention, last saw us performing at a Primary School in Lincs. Had we been looked after by a big London agency, this school's enquiry would never even have reached our ears for consideration, and while we have to say all the time to enquiries, the headmaster in the instance struck me as being on quite a remarkable quest with what he was trying to do with music and his semi-rural community. The personal contact allow me to assess his case on merit, not on money, or cool, or our aims and objectives. So, we came of stage at the ultra cooling, all standing festival Crossing Borders in Holland, jumped on a plane and with practically no sleep at all and another show a long way away the next night, we went to play at the primary school, first in the afternoon for the kids, and then again in the evening, after we'd done some workshops too, and then we have the pleasure of staying with the headmaster, his lovely wife and children, and what a great night we had.

In case anyone thinks this statement of independence is hypocritical given our licensing deal to EMI, our deal with them is one which offers them no artistic interference at all, nor do they seek it. Their impact on our career is purely a question of using their marketing and distribution infrastructure to reach as many people with our music as possible. It is up to every individual to decide what they listen to. When you listen to ours, it is from us, but it may have been brought to your attention in a way that we alone could have reached you alone, because we do not have the manpower, expertise or finance.

Do not think for a second that our touring motives our financial. If they were, we wouldn't be putting out a 10 piece band that is not financially sustainable in the size of venues we are playing! Despite our perceived success, the core members of The Unthanks, including myself, still haven't made it into five figures, in terms of personal annual earnings. We'd probably be better off on the social! And if our touring motives were financial, our shows would consist purely of playing in seated, comfortable, well facilitated arts centres and theatres. That's because such venues (very generally speaking) have a higher average audience age and a higher socio-economic audience group. Put in brutal terms, we could quite easily play cosy provincial arts centres and theatres for the rest of our days, playing to audiences with higher disposable income, with more money to spend on CDs and higher ticket prices. And at these shows, the backstage facilities are better, we're well treated, well fed, the shows finish earlier and we get a lot more rest. The majority of standing shows we do are aimed at cultivating new and younger audiences for folk music, and it has been a long and expensive investment, playing in large city centres, in under-equipped venues with sticky carpets and that charge you a hire fee to play there. If there is any part of our audience demographic that we are disappointed in, it is the young, not the old! Of course, I'm generalizing enormously now and exaggerating and being tongue in cheek to make a point, but the fact is, youngsters growing up now have so many different types of leisure options available to them, that music does not occupy the same places in youth culture as it once did, let alone folk music. So we're determined to try twice as hard to make sure we are doing our bit to keep this music alive amongst new generations, as well as been heartily glad and appreciative of every single person who chooses to spend their hard earned cash on coming to see us, regardless of generation or musical persuasion. I myself am a grumpy old man in the making, and both Rachel and I spend the majority of our little free time either with our ancient parents and our toddler nephews, rather than on our own generation, and at 37 and 33 respectively, we don't regard ourselves as young anyway! And when our UK tour starts in March, Rachel will be nearly 7 months pregnant, and will most likely have her own chair on stage!!!

Please note that this is a statement and not an attempt to enter into conversation. Such forums ought to be healthy places for democratic discussion and debate, but are frequently places to make vicious, insulting, personal remarks behind anonymous aliases, and to assert wildly inaccurate information or ill-informed prejudice that quickly adopts the impression of public opinion, as if the subjects you insult do not have ears, feelings, insecurities, families. That is why you will never find an Unthank reading or contributing to these pages, and why I regret having to make this statement through this channel. The initial author and many of the contributors have made interesting and welcome debate, but others are rude in a way I suspect they would never dare to be in person, yet it is taken no less personally by us. Making and releasing art makes an artist subject to criticism but not to abuse and slander, nor does making art, however successfully, give the artist any thicker skin than the next person.

Nevertheless, anyone who has concerns or problems of any kind in relation to being able to see our shows is welcome to approach us directly.
While I write as manager as well as member of The Unthanks, I do not necessarily represent the views of all members of The Unthanks.
Adrian McNally
The Unthanks.


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: maeve
Date: 18 Feb 11 - 08:38 AM

Adrian McNally & The Unthanks-

That is a gracious reply. Thank you.

Maeve


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Feb 11 - 08:59 AM

I'm wondering whether this is more of a generational thing than an age thing. When I was younger we didn't usually feel the urge to jig about, even during instrumental pieces - on the contrary, I can remember a seated audience (of students, at a university folk club) listening in rapt attention to Boys of the Lough and enjoying their instrumental virtuosity. Songs and instrumental pieces demanded, and received, close attention, which you can't give if you're dancing. If we wanted to dance we went to a ceilidh. I don't think we'd have expected to have to stand at a concert. I even remember going to see Steeleye Span in the Student Union main hall, and even then in the absence of chairs most of the audience preferred to sit on the floor (although a very few jigged around in the corner, and I think were considered a bit of a distraction).

I can see that for some bands this may be less important than the overall vibe - Bellowhead being the obvious example - and I'm not saying that's necessarily a bad thing. However I think those bands are the exceptions, and from what I've seen of the Unthanks (and I admit I'm not a fan) I shouldn't have thought they were one of them. With most folk performers the song is still the main thing, and should be listened to rather than danced to.

I also wonder whether this attitude is due to the sheer ubiquity of music nowadays. Youngsters these days seem to be unable to function unless they're plugged into an ipod - that's fine at one level but I wonder if they know how to really listen to music.


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: GUEST,Mad Spaniel
Date: 18 Feb 11 - 09:12 AM

Adrian,

Thank you for your frank and honest reply.
It's a debate that will always go on and on and i'm pretty sure your fans will come and see you whatever and whenever.
Box offices are always inundated with enquiries and request (i know i work in one) and sometimes you know the answer you give won't supply the caller with the solution they require, particularly if tickets have sold well.

To be honest i don't mind standing if the artist, band, act, suit it and i reckon a 10 piece band are going to make a pretty big noise.
But as you say venues should make provision for the less able and as a priority not an afterthought.


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: Howard Jones
Date: 18 Feb 11 - 09:23 AM

Sorry, that last Guest was me - not logged in - and sent before I'd seen the Unthanks lengthy and thoughtful response.

Nevertheless it does raise the question of balance at these venues. It seems its fine if you're actually disabled, or if you can persuade the management that you're an old crock who can't stand for too long. If not, you just have to put up with it. I'm 57 and fairly fit and active, but I wouldn't want to stand for several hours no matter who was appearing.

It seems to me that standing venues are more excluding than seated ones, on the basis that it's more of a hardship being forced to stand when you don't want to than being forced to sit.

If a band - and I'm not specifically addressing the Unthanks - wants to go into a "youth" venue which is normally standing and intends to arract that venue's usual audience who expect that, that's one thing. If it's playing a more general venue, such as an arts centre, then it seems to me that it should seek a better balance between the needs of all its audience, which means providing adequate seating for those who want it.


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: raymond greenoaken
Date: 18 Feb 11 - 09:42 AM

" The initial author and many of the contributors have made interesting and welcome debate, but others are rude in a way I suspect they would never dare to be in person, yet it is taken no less personally by us. Making and releasing art makes an artist subject to criticism but not to abuse and slander, nor does making art, however successfully, give the artist any thicker skin than the next person."

Mudcat is a place of robust debate. That's the nature of a forum. People naturally find it easier to be blunt about someone on a forum rather than to their face: it's a matter of good manners. Making art DOES make you subject to abuse in a culture of free speech. It comes with the territory. Has an artist the right to say: don't be rude to me, I'm as thin-skinned as the next person? If you need consolation, count your CD sales.

And as a Tynesider born and bred, I can confirm that the Unthanks do indeed sing in their own regional accent. Wake up at the back, Michael!


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: theleveller
Date: 18 Feb 11 - 09:51 AM

"People naturally find it easier to be blunt about someone on a forum rather than to their face: it's a matter of good manners. "

Not sure about that, Raymond. I would never say anything on here that I wouldn't say to the person's face. Got the scars to prove it :0


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: GUEST,Larry
Date: 18 Feb 11 - 09:55 AM

Seems fairly straight forward: you can't please all of the people all of the time. That the original poster is not going to see them is a pity but understandable in his/her circumstances. I, like Ruth Archer and Spleen like my live music standing up and so would not go to see, for instance, 3DM or The Levellers sitting down.   However ... seeing the Unthanks ... this is a bit of a puzzle as I have never really 'got' them.


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: raymond greenoaken
Date: 18 Feb 11 - 09:57 AM

Manners spareth the scars!


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: The Sandman
Date: 18 Feb 11 - 10:12 AM

Thankyou[unthanks] for the response, but whats this crap about slander ETC.
I am quite prepared to repeat anything I have said on this forum to the faces of the Unthanks, should they ask my opinion, on the occasion when I couldnt understand one word of one of the Unthanks songs,I did not mention it as IT WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN APPROPRIATE, it would have created an unecessary unpleasant atmosphere in an otherwise pleasant singaroun.,
however if they had asked my opinion, I would have repeated what i have said on this forum, number one purpose of a song is for the words to be understood, in person it would probably be easier to put over constructive criticism,in a more diplomatic way, body language makes this easier in person than on the net.
I do not hide my identity.I am Dick Miles,in fairness I enjoyed the other youtube clips of The Unthanks


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 18 Feb 11 - 10:13 AM

And as a Tynesider born and bred, I can confirm that the Unthanks do indeed sing in their own regional accent. Wake up at the back, Michael! ======

I have already done so and apologised for that misapprehension, Raymond ~~ 04.49 AM above.


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: stallion
Date: 18 Feb 11 - 11:21 AM

I hope the Unthanks post was not aimed at me! The last time I let a performer know what i thought to his face we had to be dragged apart, took exception to mild criticism and was in fighting mood. As for the rest I was defending their position. As to their target audience demographic it would tend towards the older end of the spectrum and those bums NEED seats, thirty years ago I wouldn't have given a toss, now, with arthritis in one knee and a dodgy ticker, I do. I think the lasses have fine voices and seem genuinly at ease with the music they are playing and if they are appealing to a wider audience then fair play to them.
Peter Outhart


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: raymond greenoaken
Date: 18 Feb 11 - 11:58 AM

I have already done so and apologised for that misapprehension, Raymond ~~ 04.49 AM above.

Noted, belatedly, Michael!


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: Rain Dog
Date: 18 Feb 11 - 12:05 PM

Because of all the other people blocking your view?


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Feb 11 - 07:58 PM

To Adrian and the Unthanks: thank you for the response, which I really appreciate. I've been away all day and haven't quite had chance to absorb your long post. The thread has attracted some negative comments about your playing, which is off-topic and not at all what I intended and is certainly something I do not agree with, and obviously that's something beyond my control, and I regret that. I'm not going to get back to the Phoenix box office on this occasion, as I would feel very awkward at the gig now, having bagged three seats for my slightly-disabled self and my two relatively able-bodied companions! I shall look out for future gigs and feel sure I will see you in full flight sometime in the future.

Cheers

Steve Shaw


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 19 Feb 11 - 12:13 PM

Bieber only playing all-seater gigs

"Saturday, February 19 2011, 15:24 GMT
By Paul Millar, TV Reporter
© WENN / Lia Toby


Justin Bieber will only play in all-seater venues for his upcoming tour, his bodyguard has insisted.

The 'Never Let You Go' singer, who will perform tracks from his latest album My World, will have extra protection from his hardcore fans.

"You've got a mob pushing," Kenneth Hamilton told Rolling Stone magazine, "and even if it's little girls, they're crawling on top of each other with their arms and elbows, and getting injured.".. "



well... errrrm... meanwhile in an alternative dimension universe somewhere near you..


"Screaming hysterical folk music fans invade local Arts Centre stage....
scores hospitalised, many serious injuries, unconfirmed fatalities.
Reports emerging of attempts to identify missing popular folk singers
from Dental records
and DNA on shreds of clothing and hair
found in possession of detained souveneir hunting folk fans.
Greiving families demand inquiry into inadequate security and prior removal of comfy seats"
....


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: Old Vermin
Date: 20 Feb 11 - 11:25 AM

Pleased to see that there has been communication between Steve Shaw and the Unthanks. Might I mention a less tractable problem on the same theme; seats that are too cramped?

Guildford has a couple of theatres which suffer from what I can only call short-pitched seats. Being blessed with long thigh-bones, the only way I can endure a couple of hours in most of their seats is to try to sit bolt upright and hope that cramp doesn't set in too viciously.

How general is this? It may of course cease to be a problem if larger venues struggle...

We now mostly go to places where chairs may be moved and where there's preferably a chance of sliding out to the bar or loo. Tends to be clubs or sessions rather than theatres. More intimate, and more, er, folky.


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: GUEST,henryp
Date: 20 Feb 11 - 01:12 PM

What a thoughtful and responsible response from Adrian McNally. The Unthanks are clearly a force for the better. I've seen the quartet - the full group must be an impressive sight in full flight! If the nearest date is standing this time, I hope that there will be a chance to sit at a date on the next tour. Happy to oblige if you are looking for baby sitters!


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: GUEST,schlimmerkerl
Date: 20 Feb 11 - 03:11 PM

We saw "Cleopatra" at the Globe in London. It was mostly standing only. Thanks for an authentic experience, but we found it uncomfortable.


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray
Date: 20 Feb 11 - 03:26 PM

Anyway - I'd love to see them but the mid-week Manchester date makes it impossible, so that's why I won't be going. I do note, however, in the light of my flippant remark earlier in this thread that the booking form for the Manchester Cathedral gig (HERE) does specify standing...


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: Rob Naylor
Date: 21 Feb 11 - 12:10 PM

Howard I even remember going to see Steeleye Span in the Student Union main hall, and even then in the absence of chairs most of the audience preferred to sit on the floor (although a very few jigged around in the corner, and I think were considered a bit of a distraction).

Hmmm, Ths Steeleye gigs I went to were sometimes standing only, and many, even most, people danced. In fact, Maddy P would sometimes come into the audience and grab people to dance with herself. Including myself on one memorable occasion.


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: Howard Jones
Date: 21 Feb 11 - 02:28 PM

I wonder why the Manchester Cathedral gig is "standing"? Hardly a "yoof" venue, and I shouldn't have thought space is a problem.

The message that's emerging is that some audiences will be put off if it's standing only, and others if it's seated. I'm not going to criticise the Unthanks or anyone else for how they decide to run their gigs, but bands choosing one or the other need to understand that either way they're excluding a substantial proportion of their fanbase. Maybe they'll come back for the next gig, maybe not.

Rob, the Steeleye gig I referred to was "standing only" in that no seating was provided, but nevertheless most people chose to sit on the floor for most of the time. Still, it was the 70s, probably they were all stoned :)


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: puck
Date: 21 Feb 11 - 02:47 PM

Well done, and full marks to the Unthanks for spending a good forty mins to type such a long reply to explain and comment on this issue.
Personally I am one of the ones who love 'em. I wish they would sometimes take less time over singing a song or two from their repertiore, but I cannot fault their musicality and I have little or no problem understanding the lyrics they sing, or their choice of material.
Seems like a bit of a storm in a teacup to me. If you don't like 'em don't go and see 'em - if you do, but don't like the arrangements at the venue - don't go! If you want to see 'em anyway - try and make arrangements with the venue provider and if that fails then sue the venue providers if you are feeling 'victimised'!!!!
I think they are a breath of fresh air!
P


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: Paco O'Barmy
Date: 21 Feb 11 - 03:44 PM

So the concert is standing room only is it and you can't stand that long? Tough! That's life.


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: GUEST,Steve
Date: 21 Feb 11 - 04:40 PM

Paco
What a useful contribution...... you need to stay in more!


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: GUEST,PeterC
Date: 22 Feb 11 - 09:06 AM

One thing the promoter can guarantee is that somebody won't like the way the gig is organised.

I have never been involved in an Unthanks gig so don't know how their tour was organised but a typical tour is set up between the agent and a number of promoters who either own or hire the venues. The choice between flat floor and concert seating would be down to the promoter who is paying both the band and the venue. Its only the band's call if they are paying for the venues themselves.


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: GUEST,Gail
Date: 22 Feb 11 - 09:23 AM

"full marks to the Unthanks for spending a good forty mins to type such a long reply to explain"

I must be the only one who thought "We do this because we are philanthropists" was, erm, interesting.


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: Old Vermin
Date: 22 Feb 11 - 06:52 PM

Since Gail mentioned it, I winced at the mention of a ten-piece band that cannot break even in those venues. One thing for say a ten-piece or so ceilidh band with day jobs to not even cover expenses on a gig, but musicians making a career of it really need to be doing better than about minimum wage.

I applaud the idealism, but there's a lot to be said for sustainability if the Unthanks are to go on entertaining current youth as they mature together.


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 25 Feb 11 - 05:45 AM

For me, the 10-piece band was too much: couldn't hear much of the vocals, but that's maybe down to the way the sound was mixed.

Re standing gigs generally: I was at another one recently - 3 and a half hours of standing - a killer for an over-60, (albeit an overgrown teenager), but it was for a couple of my favourite bands so I did it, and I wasn't the only old 'un there by far. They probably could have accommodated the same number of people in this venue by having it half seated and half standing.
And (thread drift) what really irks me even more about standing only concerts is that it seems that all concert etiquette goes out the windows! Folk roaming about to and from bars and loos, talking (even shouting) loudly to each other during the music, etc, etc.


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Feb 11 - 09:20 AM

I think I met Adrian some years back and (I think) Rachel sang in our local pub in perhaps one of the bizarrer gigs that either was involved in. I think that Adrian did the sound for Last Nights Fun and we booked them to play at the Blacksmiths Arms in Farlington North Yorkshire about 6 years ago because the chap who ran the pub was a huge fan (he has since bought a set of pipes).

It was probably the tiniest gig that LNF played with a small, but appreciative, audience about two feet from the performers. We did not have a huge budget and so nobody got rich that night - 3 performers and a sound man (and I think manager) at a cost of £300 (if I remember) is not rampant profiteering. Afterwards we drank too much as I remember and sang and played with Denny etc till about 2 in the morning. I seem to remember that a young lady sang an unaccompanied song at some point in the evening and I'm guessing that was probably Rachel (though I may be wrong - I've been standing up for too many years and am approaching 60 to quickly).

So my experience is rather different. Brilliant happy evening that I still have photos of. Also started me tinkering with DADGAD a bit too of some of the people who are being slammed in this thread rather unnecessarily to my mind.


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: Nick
Date: 25 Feb 11 - 09:22 AM

Sorry the last post was I sans cookie


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: Nick
Date: 25 Feb 11 - 09:27 AM

Actually thinking further, LNF came and played twice - so it might have been the second rather than first time. Same point anyway - everyone felt they had value for money rather than being ripped off.

Lay off people who are just trying to make a living. Hard enough.


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: stallion
Date: 25 Feb 11 - 11:02 AM

you and me both Nick! Nowt wrong with earning coin and the one who pays the fiddler calls the tune.   anyone who can draw in a wider (younger!) audience should be especially appreciated. See you soon perhaps. p


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: breezy
Date: 25 Feb 11 - 01:11 PM

Hot of the lines


18.00 hrs

the auditorium seats 200

450 when standing

Steve Knightley is nearly sold out, 10 seats left

70 left for Jackie Oates


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 25 Feb 11 - 01:29 PM

How the blazes are you doing John?
Les


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: GUEST,Belinda
Date: 28 Feb 11 - 04:08 AM

Hello, I'm not going to comment on this thread but as an ex-Wintersetter, I would like to let people know what I've been doing since leaving that band and starting a new duo.

We are called O'Hooley & Tidow and we are touring in March and April if people fancy coming along to see is.

All venues are seated.

Thanks,

Belinda O'Hooley
www.ohooleyandtidow.com


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Feb 13 - 05:21 PM

I always liked the originals best- Hank Williams rather than Boxcar Willie so why not listen to the source singers ripped off by these charlatans- originals whether the tradition or Ray Davies. I'm all for interpretation, but not destruction of perfectly good material- can hardly believe you younger folk have all been taken in by this dreary unoriginal crap.


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: GUEST,Joe G
Date: 13 Feb 13 - 05:58 PM

One of the disadvantages of this forum is that people can make offensive comments and not have the courage to reveal their identity as has the poster above. You may think it is dreary and unoriginal - fair enough though I would disagree - but to call the Unthanks music 'crap' is deeply offensive - by what standards are you judging?? What qualifies you to suggest that - you may not like it - I am not keen on a number of artists and genres of music but would never call it crap. I am not one of the 'younger folk' of which you refer but at 53 I believe that this band and many others are taking the music I love forward and there has probably never been a better time for lovers of folk music thanks to the huge numbers of young people who are breathing new life into the tradition!

Joe Grint


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Feb 13 - 06:14 PM

As the instigator of this thread I should like to say that I wish to echo Joe's comments fully and enthusiastically.

Steve (always the real me)


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: GUEST,alex s no cookie
Date: 13 Feb 13 - 07:31 PM

They are just not very good. Floor singers, ok. paid guests - no chance. Just because you are told they are fantastic doesn't mean they are. Pleasantish but unremarkable. And can't dance.


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Feb 13 - 08:48 PM

Don't agree. That's life.


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: severed-head
Date: 14 Feb 13 - 03:18 AM

I agree entirely with Alex s on this one. There are at least a dozen floor singers in my local clubs who are better performers. Just my opinion of course.
Garry


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: Young Buchan
Date: 14 Feb 13 - 03:41 AM

Thank you for a genuinely useful thread. In future when people try to persuade me to 'be broad minded' and go to see some flavour of the month, vaguely folk related, group that I know I will hate, instead of an act performing traditional music in an authentic traditional style, rather than admit my prejudice, I can now say: "Sorry. Daren't risk it in case it turns out to be no-seating. Since my foot operation I can't stand that long. And my moshing is severley restricted.'

If Sheila Stewart does a comeback, I'll stand - on one leg if necessary. But not for the Unthanks.


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: GUEST,giovanni
Date: 14 Feb 13 - 03:49 AM

Old Vermin said
"Might I mention a less tractable problem on the same theme; seats that are too cramped?".

Couldn't agree more! I hate to find the seat I've paid good money for is suitable for nobody bigger than a 6 year old. So these days I'm at pains to make sure my seat will be comfortable, particularly for legroom.

My two big gigs last year were Bob Dylan and Mark Knopfler at the Mediolanum Milan, then Carmen at Verona. In both cases the seats were thoroughly hateful - albeit the best available and at a huge price.

Fortunately Dylan's performance was good enough to put up with the discomfort. But after two acts of Carmen I had to find a more comfortable seat, which I did, in one of the bars out in the square. The entertainment was better too.

g


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Feb 13 - 06:04 AM

I think that all the posts in this thread dissing the Unthanks are childish. It was never intended to be "let's knock the Unthanks" thread. It was hardly likely to be, was it, when you consider that I had started out wanting to travel 55 miles to their gig. It's about having to stand up at the gig, no more than that. Start your own threads on the merits or otherwise of the band if you really want to discuss it.


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Feb 13 - 05:16 PM

Rather than start your own thread why not be constructive and start your own band or session & don't travel 55 miles to see anyone- it's barmy at £6.50 a gallon- as daft as paying £50 for a football match!

Can I add 'pretentious' as a further qualifier to my description of
the Unthanks as 'crap' a word I stand by.... ie the waste product left after a good dose of either food or exposure without comprehension of the wonderful repertoire of traditional music left by such originals as Ewan MacColl or A L Lloyd or Peter Kennedy- that it should come to such as the Unthanks- if they were alive today they'd be turning in their graves....
am all for kids playing the music we love but have you heard what they play???


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: GUEST,Joe G
Date: 15 Feb 13 - 05:59 PM

Would I be correct in thinking you don't like Bellowhead, Jim Moray, Karine Polwart, Seth Lakeman, Chumbawamba or anyone else who is creating excellent music but who are under a certain age?

The people of whom you speak did leave a great legacy but the world has moved on and fortunately so has the music.

I love both - and to be honest most of the younger musicians seem to me to be as, if not more, talented than some of the earlier generations


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: GUEST,Joe G
Date: 15 Feb 13 - 06:35 PM

Sorry Chumbawamba should be in the past tense sadly!


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Feb 13 - 08:13 PM

I shouldn't really respond to trolls, I know that, but I do actually have my own band and my own session. In fact, as I type this, I've been back from our session, which we hold once a week, for half an hour. I live in a very remote area and, if I want to see a particular band, I have to travel. I can usually combine other missions in the town I'm travelling to on the same day. Try not to be such a bloody twit, oh Guest.


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: Rockhen
Date: 15 Feb 13 - 09:15 PM

I have not managed to read all the posts on this thread but I would like to say that when the Unthanks came to Caistor, we thoroughly enjoyed providing the support for the evening and found the band and all of those involved with them, very pleasant and not just 'in it for the money'.
If it wasn't for the organisers of live music events, there would be no gigs/concerts etc and each venue and organiser has to consider many factors to make the event a success. Sometimes places and people get it wrong but I believe it is much better to share your praise or criticism directly with those responsible. It helps improve and maintain quality and is also encouraging to get praise if an event is well-organised. Constructive criticism and praise where it is due. Keep music live and recognise hard work when it happens.


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 16 Feb 13 - 04:29 AM

I wouldn't see them at a sit down venue, I find them extremely boring if it's all the same to you.


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Feb 13 - 06:56 AM

I don't care whether you find them boring. It simply is not the point of the thread.


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: Will Fly
Date: 16 Feb 13 - 07:09 AM

I can see your frustration, Steve. You'd probably have got a more focussed and on-topic discussion if you'd just said something like "a folk act". The moment a name - any name - comes up on Mudcat, all the YEA-ers and NAY-ers appear out of the woodwork and muddy the waters.

(Omigod, I said MUDDY the WATERS!)


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: Rob Naylor
Date: 16 Feb 13 - 08:36 AM

At least no-one could accuse *you* of BLIND REVERENDS Will!


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: GUEST,Joe G
Date: 16 Feb 13 - 12:01 PM

Apologies for my contribution in diverting the thread Steve - just hate the word 'crap' being used about any artist.


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: Continuity Jones
Date: 16 Feb 13 - 12:07 PM

However "crap" one thinks The Unthanks or someone are, coming on to a forum and commenting such whilst an anonymous guest makes you the biggest crap of all.

At least make up a vague but consistent pseudonym and stick to it, he adds, covering his tracks...


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: GUEST,Joe G
Date: 16 Feb 13 - 12:25 PM

:-)


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: Acorn4
Date: 16 Feb 13 - 03:34 PM

A couple of years ago we were booked for a festival at a country park - the marquees were sensibly spaced out to allow for them not to interfere with each other.

We got to our marquee where all the PA was set up ready, but not a chair in sight - I normally sit down to play the guitar but not only not a chair in the venue but not in any of the others - luckily one of the other acts had bought a folding stool with the which we borrowed; always carry a stool just in case these days. Live and learn.


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: GUEST,Allan Conn
Date: 17 Feb 13 - 03:46 AM

"if I want to see a particular band, I have to travel"

Totally agree with you. Saying "don't travel" to anyone who wants to see acts but lives in rural areas is such a silly thing to say. Our club brings acts to the town but we are restricted to about 4 per year. Apart from that only very occasionally does anyone choose to play here during their tours. We normally have to travel to see any other acts which is anything from 40 to 80 miles round trips. However for the more major names it is often either Edinburgh, Glasgow or Newcastle. So it is between 100 and about 180 miles round trips to venues. Like you we'd tend to tie it in with other things and also fill the car to help with travel costs.


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 17 Feb 13 - 10:23 AM

We do not go to gigs without seating and disabled access. Quite how promoters and their artists expect folks aged our side of 60 to stand for 3 hours is beyond me. Perhaps is is ageism plain and simple.

Still, most of those gigs are available for download at some time!!!!!


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Jan 17 - 01:00 PM

I'm full of admiration for the this Adrian. He gave a very full and sympathetic explanation of why the situation arose those years back. Don't know if it's changed at all since, but hope it's unproved, just for all the oldies & disabled etc.
Oh yes, my admiration is also because of the way he's taken a couple of quite ordinary singers, and conned people that this is folk music. They have the most inane & boring delivery I've ever heard, (zzzzzzzz....) and although their material is good, (based on the classic Northumbrian repertoire) my admiration is for how they have all made money out of such crap!


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Jan 17 - 02:45 PM

I wouldn't touch the unthanks with a shitty stick


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: The Sandman
Date: 20 Jan 17 - 03:38 PM

The two anonymous attacks above are in my opinion very unpleasant.


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 20 Jan 17 - 05:16 PM

"I wouldn't touch the unthanks with a shitty stick"

...shitty stick touching.. is that yet another peculiar border morris tradition...??? 😜


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: The Sandman
Date: 21 Jan 17 - 07:42 AM

this thread is an example of the inconsitent moderation of joe offer , why has 2 anonymous guest post that are insulting about the unthanks been allowed?


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: GUEST,guest 3
Date: 21 Jan 17 - 09:50 AM

I really don't think the first guest deserves such abuse- he has a point to make and it seems a fair way to put it if that's how he feels


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: JHW
Date: 21 Jan 17 - 11:19 AM

'Ham Marquee one evening. The Unthanks were on first....
I was outside, watching the fiasco of Season Ticket Holders not being able to get in'

Last time I was in the Ham Marquee I left my SEAT and the sweaty atmosphere and STOOD in the fresh air outside to listen.


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 Jan 17 - 11:35 AM

Whilst I'm a great advocate of the wild and windy democracy that is thread drift, I'm disappointed that this thread is infested with criticism of the Unthanks' music and talent. That was never my intention when I started the thread (with a narrow and specific gripe about a gig that was standing-only). Arguments both for and against that have been put and the Unthanks' manager posted a long and very gracious response too. That was all as good as it gets. Yah boo bloody sucks to the rest.


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: GUEST,guest 3
Date: 21 Jan 17 - 12:24 PM

It has diverged, but that's what happens - if people have strong feelings about the Unthanks music, it'll come out, regardless of where YOU think the discussion should go, Mr Shaw.
Sometimes in a free society, things don't work out as we may wish-- ask Hillary Clinton...


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Jan 17 - 12:44 PM

I'd like to apologise about my remark relating to the Unthanks,I'm not keen on their music, but I understand that many people are, sorru to have caused offence.


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Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 Jan 17 - 01:10 PM

Can you read, anonymous, possibly sock-puppet Guest 3? I SAID that I'm a great advocate of thread drift, didn't I? I don't care where the discussion goes, but I'll tell you this much: anyone who posts on this forum, including anonymous cowardly types, can start threads criticising artists any time if they want to. If anyone has anything negative to say about this particular band, why wait silently until you suddenly find you can do it mean-spiritedly and off-topic in somebody else's thread? Start a we-hate-Unthanks thread instead and we'll join in and and give you what for. We might even poke you with a metaphorical shitty stick. You sound like you deserve it.


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