canadian genocide

Subject: canadian genocide
From: ollaimh
Date: 26 Feb 12 - 08:54 PM

the chair of the canadian truth and reconcilliation commission on native residential schools , murry sinclair, stated recently that the residential school system was a form of genocide.

most canadians remain ignorant or in denial about the genocidal treatment of natives for over a century. this system was designed to "kill the indian" untill there was nothing left of the indian and no indian question and no indian act. in the words of one of the cheif architects duncam campbell-scott, the minister of indian affairs of the day. the system gave control over the education of native children to churches--mainly the anglican church, the catholic church and several protestant denominations that later united to form the present united church of canada.

uner their gentle tuteledge native over a 150,000 native children were forcably taken from their families and placed in schools where they were denied their own labguage, beaten raped and systematicaslly denied health care and proper nutrition, such that about half died in those schools, and most the the survivors have been permanently traumitized.

it's way past time to make significant reparations for these crimes against humanity committ4d by the canadian government and those evil christian churchs that defied all the tenets of the gospel of christ and did the devil's work.

it is also way past time for those churches to release all their documents on the residential schools. many are still hidden that show clear church involvement intentionally ordering the denila of health care and nutrition and turning a blind eye to repeated claims of sexual abuse and horrific beatings of those innocents.

the inspector general for the health of the cjildren , a dr bryce stated that what he found coast to coast "was criminal". for his truth he was driven from government and then from the medical profession.

this genocide is continuing . americans sit on their hads while ward churchill was dismissed from his tenured position at colorado university for hos lack of alledgance to the united states.native land is continually encroached in canada and america and people like leonard peltier is held in prison as a political prisoner.

its time for justice here in north america before we point any more fingerts at others

Subject: RE: canadian genocide
From: gnu
Date: 26 Feb 12 - 09:59 PM

Prove it.

Subject: RE: canadian genocide
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 27 Feb 12 - 02:33 PM

The removal of children from their tribes and education as "white men" caused loss of tradition and turmoil. It was considered the best solution to bring the indigenous people into citizenship in both the U. S. and Canada. The same process took place in Latin America.
The church and educational leaders of the time thought they were doing their best for the aboriginals.
The native peoples of Canada are doing their best to restore parts of their culture and heritage. More money from the government is needed on many of the reserves (and that means we as taxpayers must contribute the funds).

Diatribes from people like Ollimaih contribute absolutely nothing to providing the help that is needed.

Better schools are needed on the reserves, and a better, cheaper system of providing higher education to those who want it are the best way of providing "restitution" for past wrongs; add more support for housing and provision of services. Breast-beating and apologies serve no purpose.

Ultimately, taxpayers must be the providers of these services which must be integrated with the needs of the population as a whole.

Subject: RE: canadian genocide
From: gnu
Date: 27 Feb 12 - 03:00 PM

Well said, Q. I'll add. There has been lots of money for a long time and a lot of it has been stolen.

As for Pelltier, there was a long thread about him. Anybody who cares to read it can make up their own minds about him being a "political prisoner" or being a a convicted murdered... IDd by the guy he shot while he was on a hospital death bed.

Subject: RE: canadian genocide
From: GUEST,999
Date: 27 Feb 12 - 04:57 PM

"ward churchill was dismissed from his tenured position at colorado university for hos lack of alledgance to the united states"

Even Ward Churchill's 'own people' don't want him, and members of AIM consider him less than desirable, consider him a sell-out and an apple: Red on the outside, White on the inside.

The day this opening poster gets his facts right I will support him all I can. So far he's done more harm than good for Native people, and I wish he'd fuck off!

#########################################

From Wikipedia:

"In 2003, Churchill stated, "I am myself of Muscogee and Creek descent on my father's side, Cherokee on my mother's, and am an enrolled member of the United Keetoowah Band of Cherokee Indians."[20][21] In 1992, Churchill wrote elsewhere that he is one-eighth Creek and one-sixteenth Cherokee.[22] In 1993, Churchill told the Colorado Daily that "he was one-sixteenth Creek and Cherokee."[23] Churchill told the Denver Post in February 2005 that he is three-sixteenths Cherokee.[14]
In a statement dated May 9, 2005, and posted on its website, the United Keetoowah Band initially said, "The United Keetoowah Band would like to make it clear that Mr. Churchill IS NOT a member of the Keetoowah Band and was only given an honorary 'associate membership' in the early 1990s because he could not prove any Cherokee ancestry." The tribe said that all of Churchill's "past, present and future claims or assertions of Keetoowah 'enrollment,' written or spoken, including but not limited to; biographies, curriculum vitae, lectures, applications for employment, or any other reference not listed herein, are deemed fraudulent by the United Keetoowah Band."[24]
Two days later, the United Keetoowah Band of Cherokee Indians replaced its statement with one that acknowledged Churchill's "alleged ancestry" of being Cherokee. "Because Mr. Churchill had genealogical information regarding his alleged ancestry, and his willingness to assist the UKB in promoting the tribe and its causes, he was awarded an 'Associate Membership' as an honor," the tribe's website now said. "However, Mr. Churchill may possess eligibility status for Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma, since he claims 1/16 Cherokee." The tribe's spokesperson, Lisa Stopp, stated the tribe enrolls only members with certified one-quarter American Indian blood. The website statement further clarified that Churchill "was not eligible for tribal membership due to the fact that he does not possess a 'Certificate of Degree of Indian Blood (CDIB)", and the associate membership did not entitle an individual to voting rights or enrollment in the tribe. Churchill has never asked for CDIB certification, and finds the idea of being "vetted" by the US government offensive.[25][26]
In June 1994, the tribe voted to stop awarding associate memberships.[26][27] Such honorary associate membership recognizes an individual's assistance to the tribe, but it has nothing to do with Indian ancestry, and it does not entitle an individual to vote in the tribe as a member.[28] The Keetoowah Band states that Churchill still holds the associate membership and it has not been rescinded.[28][29] In a separate interview, Ernestine Berry, formerly on the tribe's enrollment committee and four years on its council, said that Churchill had never fulfilled a promise to help the tribe.[30]"

Churchill's as big a bullshitter as the OP.

Subject: RE: canadian genocide
From: GUEST,999
Date: 27 Feb 12 - 05:04 PM

And since I'm really pissed off over this horseshit, I will say this: residential schools were/are a national disgrace, and if any of the people responsible are still living, I hope they spend their last days in jail, THEN they should go to hell.

Subject: RE: canadian genocide
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 27 Feb 12 - 05:47 PM

Who was responsible for the residential schools?

Parishioners who contributed money to the churches to set up and support the schools. Donations collected from school children and the public in fund-raising drives.
Elected representatives who voted funds to support the schools.
Employees of the various government agencies who supported and set policies in place.
Charitable foundations who provided money and equipment, British, European, Canadian and American.
The teachers employed in the schools teaching manual arts, health and hygiene, home arts, and basic school subjects.

The people ultimately responsible were our parents, grandparents, etc., and their charitable organizations, all of whom thought they were supporting a good solution.

We cannot re-do the past; we may agree that the policies were wrong, but they were thought to be correct at the time.

The schools were first started in mid-19th century, the last closed in the 1990s.

A list of the schools in Canada, their sponsors, locations and length of service given here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Indian_residential_schools_in_Canada.

The list is comprehensive, last modified a week ago.

Subject: RE: canadian genocide
From: gnu
Date: 27 Feb 12 - 06:06 PM

Q... "We cannot re-do the past; we may agree that the policies were wrong, but they were thought to be correct at the time."

That's MY point, to an extent. The money has always been there. Good people spent a LOT of money trying to do good. In the recent years, MUCH taxpayer money has been "spent" and stolen... watch some CBC documentaries about this absolutely inane and insane crap. It's disgustiing. To see the PRESENT living conditions just turns my stomach. It's a twisted reality, to say the least. "Shameful" doesn't even approach the way our government should feel for not managing properly the prevention of this atrocity.

It appears they are trying to get a handle on it but only time will tell... and the help of our native brothers is paramount. If you have followed these crises in the news, you know what I am talking about. It's time for the First Nations to stand up for themselves among themselves. I know, I know... but if they don't fix it locally, THEY will continue to be fucked. Tell me I am wrong... ???

Subject: RE: canadian genocide
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 27 Feb 12 - 06:10 PM

The residential schools settlement. List of decisions link.
http://www.residentialschoolsettlement.ca/english_index.html

I have posted at some length here because nonsensical posts about First Nations people appear in mudcat from time to time.

Thanks to 999 for the post on Churchill, a man who seems to want something for nothing.

Subject: RE: canadian genocide
From: pdq
Date: 27 Feb 12 - 06:33 PM

"...this genocide is continuing . americans sit on their hads while ward churchill was dismissed from his tenured position at colorado university for hos lack of alledgance to the united states.native land is continually encroached in canada and america and people like leonard peltier is held in prison as a political prisoner."

Total crap concerning Ward Churchill and Leonard Peltier.

Ward Churchill has absolutely no native blood even though he has claimed several tribal afilliations and as much as half blood in the past. Again, he has zero. He was dismissed at the university because all his other credentials were bogus too.

Peltier is a murderer who killed people himself as well as ordering the murder of several others to shut them up, mostly his fellow Indians. Ask his sister.

Inflamatory verbage causes problem. It does not solve them.

Subject: RE: canadian genocide
From: ollaimh
Date: 27 Feb 12 - 06:54 PM

q is a right wing nut who supplies excuses for dopingh nothing about the worst crimes in human history, genocide.

i am repeating the ideas of a judge emeritius of the canadian supreme courts, not putting forwar4d my own diatribe.

the people responsible for genocide have to be held accountable if we want to a legitimate nation.

A CANADIAN SUPREME COURT JUSTICE SIAD THE RESIDENTIAL SCHOOLS WERE GENOCIDE, NOT ME, THE RACISTS LIKE Q AND GNU DON'T SEEM TO UNDERSTAND THAT

Subject: RE: canadian genocide
From: Ed T
Date: 27 Feb 12 - 07:12 PM

Some perspective on the Commission:


Genocide Says Sinclair



sinclair-is-correct-Opinion


Education of Canadians-healing

Subject: RE: canadian genocide
From: gnu
Date: 27 Feb 12 - 07:18 PM

Racist? Fuck you. I ask that this thread be closed.

Subject: RE: canadian genocide
From: Ed T
Date: 27 Feb 12 - 07:28 PM

I am reluctant to wade into this topic, as it seems as much emotional as logical.

Regardless of the intent,(or, considering the times), the result, on the surface anyway, seems like it closely meets the UN definition for genocide that was provided in one article. However, this definition would likely not be what one would normally think of as genocide.

One could argue whether it was intentially delivered, oe unique to Canada. One could also point to many other historic instances in many other countries where similar treatment of Aboriginal, minority or conquered groups.

However, I believe the Commission was correct on it's recommendation for education of the Canadian people of what occured-including in our schools.This will lead to a greater understanding and appreciation for what happened and the harm it has done. Possibly it will lead to compassion, and genuine efforts to "right a historic wrong", if that is possible.

On a current note, regardless of who is to blame, or how much money was mis-spent or stolen in the past, we have to do better to improve the plight of many in Aboriginal communities accross Canada.

Canada is rich and proud of the deserved reputation as a welcoming peoples and cultures from many nations and giving them an opportunity to be accepted equally and to be a part of Canada's great wealth and society. Canadians can never truly hold their heads up high, Internationally, until the same is done with their Aboriginal Brothers and Sisters.

Subject: RE: canadian genocide
From: Ed T
Date: 27 Feb 12 - 07:35 PM

While I do not support personal attacks, there have most likely been just as heated debates and insults over topics such as the Middle East and Religion.

I feel this is too important a topic to close down. If participants could calm down and refrain from insults it may be a productive dialogue. But, I don't rule out the possibly that the pent-up emotion is too high to do that?

Subject: RE: canadian genocide
From: GUEST,999
Date: 27 Feb 12 - 07:38 PM

I have disagreed with Q on more issues than you ever will, and one thing I can and will say: he is not a racist.

And thinking that of gnu who is as good a man as you'll ever meet is just plain wrong.

The schools were without doubt CULTURAL GENOCIDE, and had that been posted in the thread title I would agree with you. BUT, seeking attention for this issue with an inflammatory title is simply a no-go, ollaimh. When my government does wrong I call them on it, fwiw.

I also know there were deaths because of the schools, but saying there were 75,000 in this country is irresponsible, imo. I admire the fortitude you show by speaking about this, because most people just don't give a damn, but there's no need to make it beyond belief. The facts are bad enough to shame a nation. WE have no need to lie about it. Ottawa has done too much of that already.

I know your heart hurts from this. Whatever I can do to help I will. I would defend you if I thought you were in the right, and if we find out that there were 75,000 deaths because of those schools, I will walk with you to demand justice. And one other thing: so would Q and gnu.

Subject: RE: canadian genocide
From: GUEST,999
Date: 27 Feb 12 - 07:43 PM

Seems I was writing that last post while you guys were posting your own thoughts.

Native blood in my family: ex brother-in-law, four nephews, son-in-law and grand daughter. Indeed it can be emotional for this ol' boy.

Subject: RE: Canadian genocide
From: Beer
Date: 27 Feb 12 - 07:53 PM

I have posted the following on some other thread but i think it is also appropriate here and at this point in the conversations.
Adrien

Gary Fjellgaard's Single "I Apologize"

"I Apologize" is dedicated to the First Nation�s victims and survivors of the cultural genocide which occurred in Canada for over a century. No apology can heal the wounds caused by the far reaching effects of the residential school system. I can only add my voice as a member of the generation who allowed this abuse to take place".

http://youtu.be/vpXGOxOHuUU

Subject: RE: canadian genocide
From: gnu
Date: 27 Feb 12 - 08:07 PM

Thanks, 9.

Once again, I know there were injustices, but that does not justify further injustices and false accusations and false claims. Making false statements certainly does not do anyone any good. Calling me a racist is just stunned as me arse and only makes the accuser out to be an idiot by his own written words. I left the Pelltier thread because it was inane for obvious reasons which apparently fell on deaf ears. I now leave this thread because it is seems it will turn out the same.

Of course, I always reserve the right to return and defend myself if I feel it is necessary. When you are called a racist for no good reason, ya tend ta wanna keep that option eh? >;-)

Subject: RE: canadian genocide
From: pdq
Date: 27 Feb 12 - 08:23 PM

Q is one of the few Mudcatters who makes a serious effort to put facts on the table. He isn't always right (in my opinion) but at least he does not spout unsubstantiated flatulence as some of Mudcat's regulars do.

He is also the second oldest member and deserves some additional respect. As far as I know, only Louis Roy is his senior.

Subject: RE: canadian genocide
From: Ed T
Date: 27 Feb 12 - 09:16 PM

Good song Beer.

Subject: RE: canadian genocide
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 28 Feb 12 - 02:24 PM

I have American Indian blood on my mother's side. Racist? Fuck off, OP.
No point in further posting.

Subject: RE: canadian genocide
From: Ed T
Date: 01 Mar 12 - 10:06 AM

For a number of reasons, this could be a dead thread. Regardless, I will post some interesting background.

Aboriginal Residential Schools

CBC

Day schools-industrial Residential

Subject: RE: canadian genocide
From: GUEST,ollaimh
Date: 17 Jul 13 - 09:33 PM

the recent news have shown on cbc and ctv that the Canadian government was conducting experiements on starving natives in remote communities. they were aware that there was widespread malnutrition but used it as an opportunity to test their theories but giving a few vitamin suppluments while leaving most to slowly decline and often die. broadcadst on cbc and ctv. proof enough

there is no proof for racists like q and gnu. they will always be able to find fault with any attempt at justice.

many many perpertrators of these atrocities are alive and well and Canadian do nothing except attack people who speak the truth. this is hard core racism.

the present government is withholding the residentiasl school files from the residential schools commission. the churches are withholding documents.

the Anglican church of Canada has admitted they did these illegal and unethicall experiements on children at residential schools in their own journal, available on line.

when such information is public knowledge then the dernials by gnu and q are hard core racism. a racism that is ok with most canadians

Subject: RE: canadian genocide
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Jul 13 - 01:15 PM

Recall that eugenics laws were in effect in Alberta from 1928 to 1972. Those laws affected about 4500 people. I have never seen you post a single thing about that. Ever. Why is that and what does that make you?

Subject: RE: canadian genocide
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Jul 13 - 01:16 PM

BTW, you are wrong about Q and Gnu.

Subject: RE: canadian genocide
From: mg
Date: 18 Jul 13 - 07:31 PM

It is newly reported that there were nutritional experiments, as in students in the schools being deprived of various vitamins or foods such as milk. They milked cows and then had powdered milk to drink. It is sort of breaking news the last few days..go to bishop accountability abuse tracker and you will find it.

I have a bit of native blood too..not sure what tribe..Northern Michigan we think. My mother thought perhaps Mohawk. Listed as "an Indian woman" on a marriage certificate...but we recently found out her name was Rowena.

Subject: RE: canadian genocide
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 19 Jul 13 - 04:31 AM

Slightly puzzled here. What does one call an apologist for cultural genocide and widespread killing? Isn't "racist" the right word?

Also puzzled here - Olly, why do you not adhere to conventional spelling punctuation and grammar? It would make it a lot easier to follow (and sometimes sympathise with) what you write.

Subject: RE: canadian genocide
From: meself
Date: 20 Jul 13 - 01:17 AM

I heard Murray Sinclair speak about twenty-five years ago - while I respected him for the success he was having in his legal career, I otherwise wasn't terribly impressed. If he's calling the overall treatment of Aboriginal people in Canada "genocide", then I have no hesitation in saying he's wrong - even if he is now on the Supreme Court. If he actually used the more-nuanced term "cultural genocide", then fair enough.

Subject: RE: canadian genocide
From: Andrez
Date: 20 Jul 13 - 09:13 AM

Indigenous peoples have had a hard time wherever white Anglo people came and settled uninvited on their land. Have recently been doing some research on the Canadian experience and came across this paper that gives a bit of an overview of what happened of the resi school experience. Whats interesting is how Canadian First Peoples and other Indigenous peoples elsewhere are reclaiming some of the control over their lives lost due to racist policies and practices of the past. Hope this paper gives the 'discussion' a little perspective.

NCPC 2004 Child Welfare Approaches for Indigenous Communities issues_Internaltional

Cheers,

Andre

Subject: RE: canadian genocide
From: meself
Date: 20 Jul 13 - 10:40 AM

Yeah, those 'white Anglo people' - so much worse than the black, brown and yellow Anglo people. And of course indigenous peoples have had such a wonderful time when it's been, say, Irish, Scottish, Jewish, German, French, Portuguese, Spanish, Mexican, Roman, Hun, Manchu, Israelite, Norman, or other indigenous people coming and settling uninvited on their land .....

Subject: RE: canadian genocide
From: meself
Date: 20 Jul 13 - 10:52 AM

Further to my remarks re: Murray Sinclair - I should have pointed out that when I heard him speak, it was at a humble event that he had given up a day of his time and travelled a considerable distance to speak at, for no financial compensation (other than, possibly, a bit of gas money). Just to give the man his due ....

Subject: RE: canadian genocide
From: GUEST,Allan Conn
Date: 20 Jul 13 - 04:59 PM

"And of course indigenous peoples have had such a wonderful time when it's been, say, Irish, Scottish, Jewish"

You are quite right the word Anglo is much abused. I always find it strange to think that Anglo-Saxon England was conquered by the French speaking Normans and the occupation was pretty brutal for instance the "Harrowing Of The North" which edged towards genocide in that area. England became part of a wider Norman empire. Then when the still mianly French speaking Norman rulers of England turned their attention towards Ireland history potrays it as an English invasion of Ireland. Damned Anglo-Saxons! They kind of unfairly get a bad name. And that is coming from a Scot :-)

I'm never sure what people mean by 'Anglo' in the modern sense. Are they meaning English; are they meaning British; are they meaning English speaking; are they meaning white English speaking; are they meaning white protestant English speaking? I know english commentators will talk about Anglo (ie as in Anglo-American relationship) when what they mean is British-Ameican relationship! I don't think Scots etc use it particularly in that way!

Subject: RE: canadian genocide
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 21 Jul 13 - 11:31 AM

Localized meanings to Anglo-

In the American southwest, esp. New Mexico, it refers to non-Hispanics. Any non-Hispanic European who has entered lands which were originally Spanish-speaking and Catholic .

Subject: RE: canadian genocide
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 21 Jul 13 - 07:00 PM

This is not a 'Canadian Problem' but a GLOBAL problem, faced by many Indigenous Peoples.


Sociopaths will continue to do evil, until we stop them

In Brazil, they are simply taking their rivers upon which they depend for their way of life.

In Australia, they apologize but nothing changes.

In Canada, Harper doesn't give a shit, so they rose up against him and against all the shit that many of them have had to endure for years/centuries, due to The Patriarchy.

In America, Leonard Peltier remains in prison to this day, 37 YEARS after being wrongfully sent there. Obama stands in Mandela's prison cell and spouts words about Spirits and Freedom, whilst in his own country the biggest miscarriage of justice ever continues on, allowed to continue by him, for he is the ONLY person in the world who can set Leonard free and he could do it with just one signature..

It is a GLOBAL problem. The fact that Canadians are just now learning yet more history of what these Sociopaths did, in *their* name, is good...and it will be even better if more and more Canadians come to stand beside Idle No More and their First Nations Peoples, for ALL of us HAVE to Rise Up together to take these bastards down, once and for all.

The Patriarchy has dominated almost every part of our lives for thousands of years..and until we all come together for a very, VERY different way of life, nothing will change much.

Meanwhile, the Indigenous Peoples of the world are under threat, and that threat grows on a daily basis.

Subject: RE: canadian genocide
From: GUEST,SJL
Date: 22 Jul 13 - 02:41 PM

http://www.english.illinois.edu/Maps/poets/a_f/erdrich/stmarie.htm