A.L.Lloyd & Sea Chanties

Subject: RE: A.L.Lloyd & Sea Chanties
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Mar 23 - 11:24 PM

I cannot see any evidence of any posts decriein Folk Scholarship in this thread,
If I want information about Shanties. I don not use AL Lloyd but i contact Chris Roche or Jim Mageaan, who are very knowledgeable

"TikTok and Wellerman are top o' the pops at the moment. Still nothing to do with naval science." quote
However Wellerman has popularised Shanties and brought the songs to the attention of a lot of people that might not have otherwise heard them .

"that's the difference between a museum piece and a piece of live tradition. If it doesn't evolve in some way it's a museum piece.!
quote Steve Gardham .
Wellerman therEfore is helping to keep the tradition alive even though[ according to Phil d'Conch it has nothing to do with naval sciEnce
While not decrieng Naval Science, keeping the tradition alive is very important

Subject: RE: A.L.Lloyd & Sea Chanties
From: GUEST,R J M
Date: 06 Mar 23 - 11:26 PM

Above post was mine,
spelling correction Jim Mageean

Subject: RE: A.L.Lloyd & Sea Chanties
From: Lighter
Date: 07 Mar 23 - 10:10 AM

"History is written by the victors."

That proves that Jeff Davis and the Kaiser were both in the right.

History, in fact, is literally written by professionally trained historians who aren't afraid to modify or change their conclusions in the light of new evidence. Their work is scrutinized by others. They don't always agree, either.

Now that I've been told that the news is fake, science is fake, and history is fake, I guess the smart thing is to believe any goddamned thing I want.

Feels GOOOOD! :}

Subject: RE: A.L.Lloyd & Sea Chanties
From: meself
Date: 07 Mar 23 - 10:34 AM

"keeping the tradition alive is very important" .... Why?

Subject: RE: A.L.Lloyd & Sea Chanties
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 07 Mar 23 - 11:40 AM

Having made some excellent statements previously RJM you are now causing confusion. Calling 'Wellerman' a chanty is just completely daft. I have no objections, in fact I also applaud, the impetus it has recently given to real chanties, but that does not detract from the fact that it isn't, and never was, a chanty of any description. What has happened to chanties in the last 90 years is not continuing any sort of tradition and is nothing to do with evolution. It is a revival of interest and chanties have been given a NEW tradition, and I and others here are very much part of that new tradition, but we don't pretend we are part of anything continuing from the 19th century. Chanties are now used for a completely different purpose.

Subject: RE: A.L.Lloyd & Sea Chanties
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Mar 23 - 12:13 PM

OK, Wellerman may not be a shsnty, but manY of the public [RIGHTLY OR WRONGLY ]perceive it as such and have become intereted in songs associated with the sea., due to its publicty
lighter the smart thing to do is to challenge all the news and all history and see who is writing it.It is not smart or clever to believe anything you goddamn want

Subject: RE: A.L.Lloyd & Sea Chanties
From: GUEST,R J M
Date: 07 Mar 23 - 12:43 PM

Post above was mine

Subject: RE: A.L.Lloyd & Sea Chanties
From: GUEST,R J M
Date: 07 Mar 23 - 01:18 PM

from wiki, which according to Jack Campin is unreliable
"Soon May the Wellerman Come", also known as "Wellerman" or "The Wellerman", is a sea ballad from New Zealand [2][3] first documented in the 1960s. The song refers to the "wellermen", pointing to supply ships owned by the Weller brothers, who were amongst the earliest European settlers of Otago

Subject: RE: A.L.Lloyd & Sea Chanties
From: GUEST,Phil d'Conch
Date: 07 Mar 23 - 01:53 PM

Two traditions, art & science; fiction and nonfiction; fun and work; Martial and Polybius. Obviously, the two coexisted for thousands of years. One died out, the other did not.

Tiktok is keeping the tradition/legacy of Homer, Wallack, Wagner, Lloyd and the popular stage alive. Nothing wrong with that. Just call it for what it is and have your fun.

Back by popular demand; inspired by; based on; adapted, adopted, appropriated from the true tradition of shanties but... not the truth.

Subject: RE: A.L.Lloyd & Sea Chanties
From: Lighter
Date: 07 Mar 23 - 02:08 PM

And not to be advertised as the truth by those who know.

Subject: RE: A.L.Lloyd & Sea Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 07 Mar 23 - 05:44 PM

I'd be interested to know the backstory to Lloyd's "Bring 'Em Down" (which has been mentioned earlier in the thread).

I know only of the comparable song in Jekyll's 1907 collection from Jamaica, Jamaican Song and Story. As "Bring dem come", it appears as a digging song (a kind of work song) on page 184.
https://books.google.com/books?id=mNwb65fmvqUC&printsec=frontcover&dq=jekyll+jam

I don't personally own a copy of the liner notes from Lloyd's recording, so I will rely on the quotation on the Mainly Norfolk website. They quote:

'Like Bold Riley O, this tune (a Dorian one) was brought to Liverpool from the West Indies where a variant of it had served as a challenging stick-fight song. Among the vessels that adopted the tune as a shanty for heavy hauling were those running up the coast of Chile. Oldtime sailors, who had a high regard for Valparaiso women, pronounced the name of the country to rhyme with “versatile”.'

I've cast my eyes on a lot of written material related to chanties, and I haven't yet encountered "Bring 'Em Down" as anything brought by Liverpool sailors. Would love to see it, if so. It seems we are left to take Lloyd's word and imagine he obtained it from an insider oral source? However, saying it is from "the West Indies" hints at Jekyll's book as the possible source. And maybe someone got digging songs (certainly a Jamaican thing, but not limited to Jamaica) mixed up with stick fighting songs (a fairly distinct Trinidad thing, as far as I know). (The distinction may be glossed over by saying "West Indies".)

"Bring Dem Come" in Jamaican dialect means "let them come," as in "if they want to challenge us, go ahead, let them come and challenge." (Maybe the call to challenge was how the "stick fighting" confusion got there.)
In Lloyd's deepwater sailor presentation, however, it's as if "Bring 'em down" is supposed to refer to someone hauling on a downhaul or some other line in a downward direction. We can imagine, again, that some hypothetical deepwater sailors were the ones to mis-translate the Jamaican dialect and give "bring" a new meaning and turn "come" into "down." But I see so reason, so far, to do that.

Irksomely, Lloyd's liner note begins by saying the tune is in Dorian mode, which it is not in either version. The folk song collectors of Cecil Sharp's generation put a lot of stock in noting modes, which has some rationale based on what they (and people like Bartok) were trying to do. But it serves no function here, rather seeming more like something Lloyd does to imitate the style of the Folk Song Society.

Here's Lloyd's recorded rendition:
https://youtu.be/N6AcXLnA8m8

Again, without other information, it seems like Lloyd wanted to insert what would be stereotypical sounding deepwater sailor verses—and thus the narrative of "brought to Liverpool" takes shape.

If it comes from Jekyll, then there are some interesting choices. Jekyll marks it as "Allegro," which this is not. More importantly, Jamaican digging songs are (at least in recordings) regular in meter/tempo rather than loose.

Subject: RE: A.L.Lloyd & Sea Chanties
From: Lighter
Date: 07 Mar 23 - 07:58 PM

If "old-time sailors" were anything like the modern kind, they had a "high regard" for any available women, regardless of geography.

Lloyd presumably got the information about Valparaiso from singing "The Gallant Frigate Amphitrite" on "The Penguin Book of English Folksongs" (1961).

Subject: RE: A.L.Lloyd & Sea Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 07 Mar 23 - 09:30 PM

From a book called _Legacies of Ewan MacColl: The Last Interview_ (MacColl in 1988):

"I only know one sea shanty that is based on a ballad... 'Lowlands'... All the rest, they're usually bawdy pieces or satiric pieces or complaining pieces, you know, like [singing] 'Liverpool I was born, bring 'em down / London is me 'one from 'one, bring 'em down...' That is very typical of the long drag shanties..."

So now it's become a yard halyard song!

Subject: RE: A.L.Lloyd & Sea Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 08 Mar 23 - 03:22 AM

A source of abstracts says that No. 2 of the magazine _Folk Music_ (1966?) has "Bring 'Em Down," "collected by A.L. Lloyd in 1953."

Subject: RE: A.L.Lloyd & Sea Chanties
From: Lighter
Date: 09 Mar 23 - 09:11 PM

"Abstracts of Folklore Studies" cites the the same mag, crediting Lloyd and adding "Shanty used at tops'l halyards and other jobs."

The "New Grove Dictionary of Music and Musicians" (1980) informs us that "Some shanties are modal; among the modes used are the Myxolydian (e.g. Haul Away for Rosie) and Dorian (e.g. Bring ‘em Down)," implying that Lloyd's "Bring 'em Down" had some substantial existence.

Steeleye Span recorded it, which is substantial enough for me. ; ]

Subject: RE: A.L.Lloyd & Sea Chanties
From: Lighter
Date: 09 Mar 23 - 10:25 PM

In "Folk Song in England," Lloyd writes that "the air of Africa seems to blow through...so many one-pull shanties such as 'Bring 'em down.'"

Lloyd writes in his notes to "Sea Shanties" (Topic, 1974), "'Bring 'em Down' — A heavy-haul one-pull shanty with a triple-stamp refrain. Some of the words refer to ports of Chile and Peru and the memorable girls thereof but that doesn't mean that this shanty was limited to the West Coast run."

The lyrics were pretty bawdy for 1961, when Lloyd recorded it on "A Sailor's Garland":

Rotherhithe girls they look so fine,
Never a day behind their time.

Callao girls I do adore,
Take it all and ask for more.

Vallipo girls they put out a show,
Waggle their arse with a roll-and-go!

The double entendre of the first two stanzas sounds like Lloyd's doing to me (Cf. "Sally Brown" and "Hilo John Brown" on the same LP) but the unsubtle third one sounds more like Hugill's (and his shipmates') style.

If (medium-sized "if") Lloyd really collected the song in 1953, it may have been just the structure and a line or two - from Stan Hugill, which Lloyd then elaborated on his own. If Hugill only knew a bit if it, he might not have thought to include it SftSS.

All conjecture, of course. There's no evidence. But it does make a good work song, so one hopes it isn't a fake.

Subject: RE: A.L.Lloyd & Sea Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 10 Mar 23 - 12:40 AM

"a triple-stamp refrain"

What could that mean? Three syllables??

I don't get the use of "heavy haul" by these authors, either. A light haul is not an application for a chanty. As for "heavy" hauls, a topsail halyard haul is notably lighter than a fore sheet or "sweating." I could go on, but it just doesn't make sense and it sounds like someone making something up based on a vague imagination.

""New Grove Dictionary of Music and Musicians" (1980)"

Roy Palmer, maybe? Must have taken the "Dorian" from Lloyd's notes.

"But it does make a good work song"

Well, it IS a work song. It's just that the digging songs keep a steady beat. Nothing heavy about it, just constant energy, which is why the "bobbin" (chorus) is such a little thing, no big wind up (contrast Haul Away Joe).

Subject: RE: A.L.Lloyd & Sea Chanties
From: Lighter
Date: 10 Mar 23 - 08:53 AM

That should be "Vallipo girls put on a show."

Subject: RE: A.L.Lloyd & Sea Chanties
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 14 Mar 23 - 04:07 PM

If I am often sceptical of the odd song sung by source singers I'm sure as hell not going to get excited about a singular piece sung by one revival singer. It doesn't occur in any of my indexes, but that's because it wasn't published in print in a reliable anthology.

Interesting discussion though, but surely not worth spending too much time on. Once I know someone is an inveterate fabricator all of their work becomes worthless in terms of authenticity, but like you I am fascinated by the fabricators, all of them. In particular their motives.

Subject: RE: A.L.Lloyd & Sea Chanties
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Mar 23 - 03:16 AM

If a singer [who is also a fabricator] can perform the song well and get the interest of people who have never heard shanties before, is that perfomance minimised because they are a fabricating scholar?
   The performance of the song is what keeps songs alive and prevents them becoming museum exhibits, the fabricators scholarship work may be worthless, in your opinion from a scholarship perspective, but if they were also successful song carriers, then overall their contribution is not worthless Whilst scholarship is important, keeping the songs alive IMO is even more important,
Of paramount importance is the songs must be performed

Subject: RE: A.L.Lloyd & Sea Chanties
From: GUEST,RJM
Date: 15 Mar 23 - 03:17 AM

Post above was mine

Subject: RE: A.L.Lloyd & Sea Chanties
From: GUEST,R J M
Date: 15 Mar 23 - 04:47 AM

On the subject of authenticity, there are always grey areas.
Personally i like to hear them being performed as if they were work songs
I understand that often they were not sung in harmony, but if they are sung in harmony but still performed as work songs they may not be entirely authentic, but it might be a pleasing musical performance, that is better in my opinion than someone singing in a totally authentic manner but who cannot sing in tune.
I do not rate Stan Hugill as a TOTALLY WONDERFUL musical experience, but i acknowledge his importance as source of information
Steve, do you question any of his scholarship ever?HAS HE EVER BEEN A FABRICATOR?

Subject: RE: A.L.Lloyd & Sea Chanties
From: Lighter
Date: 15 Mar 23 - 07:11 AM

I don't like being fooled and misled.

When somebody tells me I'm hearing a historical artifact when, in actuality, they've invented most of it or the most interesting parts of it themselves, that taints the song for me, and the singer too.

Right. My loss.

When Steeleye Span sings Lloyd's "Bring 'em Down," I don't have that problem.

They don't claim to be anything but entertainers.

Subject: RE: A.L.Lloyd & Sea Chanties
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Mar 23 - 10:38 AM

all perfomers should be entertainers
".When somebody tells me I'm hearing a historical artifact when, in actuality, they've invented most of it or the most interesting parts of it themselves, that taints the song for me, and the singer too" quote
OK "Rounding of the Horn" collected by Ann Gilchrist, in the small footnotes, which you have to read very carefully to notice it describes one of the verses as having been written by the source singer, [who sailed round the horn] in my opinion it is the best verse of a very good song, it is written from his own experience. However it was some years after i had learned the song [which one is given the impression is trad in its entirety] before i read the footnotes
did i alter my opinion of the song or the collector , because of the lack of clarity.
I did not, I was grateful to find such a powerful song, grateful to the collector. I feel the same way about the recruited collier.
my judgement of a song is based on its lyrics and tune not whether its trad or LLoyd or partly written by the source singer, you seem to regard honest scholarship as more important than anything else
Honest scholarship is of importance, but if nobody sing the songs, they become museum exhibits songs that have died, and the scholarship is thenof only interest to a few academics.
The scholarship is mbecomes more important when more people are singing the song. if it had not been forLloyd who would be singning the recruited collier
NOBODY AT ALL

Subject: RE: A.L.Lloyd & Sea Chanties
From: GUEST,RJM
Date: 15 Mar 23 - 10:39 AM

bAove was me

Subject: RE: A.L.Lloyd & Sea Chanties
From: GUEST,R J M
Date: 15 Mar 23 - 10:49 AM

The source singer was W Bolton of Southport lancs

Subject: RE: A.L.Lloyd & Sea Chanties
From: GUEST,Phil d'Conch
Date: 15 Mar 23 - 01:08 PM

RJM: Honest scholarship is of importance, but if nobody sing the songs, they become museum exhibits songs that have died, and the scholarship is then of only interest to a few academics.

Say as you do -- do as you say.

"No bad publicity" is not scholarship of any kind. It's pop culture. There is no living shanty tradition. The work song went with the work. It is a museum piece. Singing pop songs on TikTok or at the club does not breath authentic maritime work song back to life.

What you did in this thread is the typical process... you say living history and do pop A&R. That is not exactly an uncommon or new thing in academia or pop culture. Wellerman is properly archived & studied in a popular entertainment museum.

Subject: RE: A.L.Lloyd & Sea Chanties
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Mar 23 - 02:02 PM

According to Steve Gardham and i accept his point Wellerman is not singing a shanty, plenty of people are singing shanties however, partly due to A L Lloyd who was one of the first people in the uk folk revival to do so, we owe him a great debt,furthermore the song RecruitedCollier would not be sung either.
Plenty of singers singing shanties

Subject: RE: A.L.Lloyd & Sea Chanties
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 15 Mar 23 - 04:34 PM

RJM
You are not reading our posts carefully.
We are all in awe of Bert's work and indeed we all sing songs fabricated by him and very happy to do so. Several of us here are performer-researchers. However, it is perfectly acceptable on this forum to mention and critique deception and/or bad scholarship.

Also, there is a world of difference between a revival/journalist silently fabricating songs, and a source singer writing new verses and altering songs.

You are obviously looking at the material through a performer's eyes. Being a researcher as well is a perfectly valid occupation, particularly on a forum like this. Don't be so precious!

Subject: RE: A.L.Lloyd & Sea Chanties
From: GUEST,R J M
Date: 15 Mar 23 - 06:44 PM

Also, there is a world of difference between a revival/journalist silently fabricating songs, and a source singer writing new verses and altering songs." QUOTE
I disagree, I return the compliment to you about being precious.

Subject: RE: A.L.Lloyd & Sea Chanties
From: GUEST,Phil d'Conch
Date: 15 Mar 23 - 06:49 PM

Plenty of singers singing shanties

In name only. They have no work or workers for their songs. It's the one thing that will usually set work song apart from the rest of pop folk... no stitch-counting, period correct reenactors to speak of.

Most every other genre would give modern A.L. Lloyd types the side-eye for everything from their nylon strings to the straight-off-the-rack wardrobe. Getting it as close to right as Health & Safety & Underwriters & Protected Species will allow is the fun... and the work.

Subject: RE: A.L.Lloyd & Sea Chanties
From: GUEST,R J M
Date: 16 Mar 23 - 03:37 AM

I don't believe A.L.Lloyd ever significantly altered a tune, however. And his textual changes were always in the spirit of the song." qutoe lighter
Jim Mageean Chris Roche Tom Lewis all sing shanties in a way that they could be worked to

Subject: RE: A.L.Lloyd & Sea Chanties
From: GUEST,Phil d'Conch
Date: 16 Mar 23 - 05:18 AM

... all sing shanties in a way that they could be worked to

*Forebitters in salty character; plain ol' music hall/minstrelsy if not. If granny had wheels...

Subject: RE: A.L.Lloyd & Sea Chanties
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Mar 23 - 01:10 PM

Have you heard the singers I mentioned?
Insulting remarks about Quality singers. I am sure you can do better

Subject: RE: A.L.Lloyd & Sea Chanties
From: Lighter
Date: 16 Mar 23 - 01:11 PM

But they were still glossed over and unacknowledged - which is the point - and sometimes significant or extensive.

All he (and others) needed to say was, "This my own version of," "This is based closely on," "I've taken a few liberties with," etc.

Making it serious was the fact that, sixty years ago, Lloyd's texts were often the most accessible to budding academics.

As folk-fakers go, however, he was at the lesser end of the spectrum. And he certainly helped popularize traditional song.

Subject: RE: A.L.Lloyd & Sea Chanties
From: GUEST,R J M
Date: 16 Mar 23 - 02:30 PM

He died in 1982. 41 years ago.

Subject: RE: A.L.Lloyd & Sea Chanties
From: GUEST,Phil d'Conch
Date: 16 Mar 23 - 03:05 PM

Insulting remarks about Quality singers. I am sure you can do better

At which, naval science, singing or Scrabble? Forebitter is a tad older than shanty and is neither legal play nor insult. Ictus is six base points.

The 'qualities' of a shanty versus a forebitter are in the application, not the singer or the song or the likes. Liking A.L.Lloyd, or anyone else, does not not make it work song. Not liking A.L. Lloyd does not give different outcomes. Still not work song.

Presenting art as science is not good practice.

Subject: RE: A.L.Lloyd & Sea Chanties
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Mar 23 - 06:27 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZQNe4GJz1 listen to that

Subject: RE: A.L.Lloyd & Sea Chanties
From: GUEST,RJM
Date: 20 Mar 23 - 08:54 AM

Phil d'Conch is that *Forebitters in salty character; plain ol' music hall/minstrelsy if not. If granny had wheels...
That is a man who sang shanties as work songs and one of those younger ones, Jim Mageaan, who you dismiss, is present absorbing style from Stan Hugill.
you talk unqualified poppy cock.

Subject: RE: A.L.Lloyd & Sea Chanties
From: GUEST,Phil d'Conch
Date: 20 Mar 23 - 01:47 PM

“This video isn't available anymore”

No biggie. I think David Coffin is a good time, does not make it work song.

Subject: RE: A.L.Lloyd & Sea Chanties
From: Lighter
Date: 20 Mar 23 - 02:02 PM

Thanks for that link, Phil.

A very enjoyable, splendidly inauthentic performance.

Subject: RE: A.L.Lloyd & Sea Chanties
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Mar 23 - 03:24 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZQNe4GJz1c stan hugill
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZQNe4GJz1c

Subject: RE: A.L.Lloyd & Sea Chanties
From: GUEST,rjm
Date: 20 Mar 23 - 03:26 PM

So you have stan there with jim mageaan, listening and absorbing style and you say it is music hall.

Subject: RE: A.L.Lloyd & Sea Chanties
From: GUEST,RJM
Date: 20 Mar 23 - 04:07 PM

you are right ,   STAN HUGILL must be a music hall turn despite the fact he sang them to work to. and all those young singers that are trying to absorb the work style they must be misguided and you must be right

Subject: RE: A.L.Lloyd & Sea Chanties
From: GUEST,Phil d'Conch
Date: 20 Mar 23 - 05:00 PM

*Lecture hall. Do we believe Hugill is making for more authentic folk club performers or more gainfully employed shantymen in the maritimes?

Hugill has the same complaint about folk club shanties in his lecture as you'll read in this thread about Lloyd. I have much the same complaints about Whall, Hugill, Lloyd &c re: world history in general and naval science in particular. Oh well.

Subject: RE: A.L.Lloyd & Sea Chanties
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Mar 23 - 05:51 PM

k

Subject: RE: A.L.Lloyd & Sea Chanties
From: GUEST,RJM
Date: 20 Mar 23 - 05:52 PM

Keep Positive

Subject: RE: A.L.Lloyd & Sea Chanties
From: Brian Peters
Date: 05 Sep 23 - 09:59 AM

I've been very irregular on Mudcat recently (it never seems to be working!) so I'd missed the resurrection of this thread earlier in the year. There are people involved here who I don't meet in my other social media interactions, so I thought it might be of interest if I brought this thread up to date with my own research (aided along the way by one or two participants in this thread).

Over the last four years I've carried out a lot of research into the songs Bert Lloyd brought to the folk revival, both through his own singing and by passing on songs he'd reconstructed to young singers of the day, most notably Anne Briggs. I had been apparent for a while that he did a lot of 'tinkering', but that word doesn't begin to describe the scale or depth of his modifications. On some of the landmark LPs the majority of the songs have been modified, often quite drastically. North American texts were plundered on many occasions, with no hint that the results weren't authentic 'English folk songs'.

As has been suggested above, modal melodies were not only composed for texts lacking a tune (e.g. 'Weary Whaling Grounds'), but substituted into many songs known to tradition with exclusively major tunes. This was particularly true of the erotic songs LP 'The Bird in the Bush' (where they served to make the songs more sensual and mysterious), but also in the case of many sea songs, especially those on 'Leviathan', where they made the mood more exciting and edgy. I think Lighter's point above about the exoticism and apparent antiquity of these melodies was a part of the appeal too. However, the Wyndham-Read version of 'Black Ball Line' with which Gibb reopened this thread is so weird that I'm inclined to agree it might have been mis-transcribed.

I gave a couple of talks about all of this, which are online - I'm linking the maritime one below. There is actually one song I'd like to consult the hive mind about: in the talk I mention 'Off to Sea Once More' and contrast the major tune generally collected orally with the modal one Lloyd (and most who followed after him) used. My belief is that Lloyd made up that tune, and that its appearance in Hugill's book suggests that he got it from Lloyd (who had recorded it five years earlier). However, a friend who knew Stan H. has pushed back against this, saying that, if Stan had used a song from Lloyd, he'd have given it proper attribution.

So my question is, are there any example where you know that Hugill published a song he'd obtained from Lloyd? I know we've speculated about it in the past.

Anyway, here's the talk - it starts at 43 minutes, but you might be interested in the other contributions too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEccGdRD8Fk

Subject: RE: A.L.Lloyd & Sea Chanties
From: Brian Peters
Date: 05 Sep 23 - 10:00 AM

Clicky:

Bert's Nautical Numbers

Subject: RE: A.L.Lloyd & Sea Chanties
From: GUEST,RJM
Date: 05 Sep 23 - 12:02 PM

I cannot locate the Wyndham-Read version of 'Black Ball Line' with which Gibb reopened this thread is so weird that I'm inclined to agree it might have been mis-transcribed.