Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: Ringer
Date: 10 Apr 13 - 12:08 PM

"But she had tunnel vision..."

If that isn't the most perfect example of the pot calling the kettle black!

You (and your ilk) seem to me to be blinded by hatred, McGrath.

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: Stu
Date: 10 Apr 13 - 12:41 PM

"The UKers are a disgrace, vicious, petty, and slaves to their ideology."

What would have people do though ake? This whole discussion might prove distasteful to some whose sensibilities are easily offended but hard, robust debate is very much part of the character of the people of these islands (even around our dinner tables and in the pub). Thatcher was lauded as an iconoclast, but then went on to erect her own edifice of myth surrounding herself, and how well it serves her still but there's no justice in condemning the iconoclastic nature of much of what has been written here; it's certainly no less insulting or nasty as some of the tributes paid this afternoon by Thatcher's (almost exculsivley male) sycophants in parliament.

The reaction to Thatchers death has had one really positive result, it proves we are a nation that still cares deeply about politics. For all the hagiographies, hack jobs and heated exchanges what the death of Thatcher has not produced is apathy, and that is heartening. Heck, it will hopefully mean that the ongoing tory beatification of the ex-PM will be checked by some attempt to understand the wider effects of her actions, although I think this is a forlorn hope.

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: GUEST,Musket sans cookie
Date: 10 Apr 13 - 01:00 PM

I suppose that in bill sables rosetinted 1997 Thatcher was still alive so such threads didn't exist. The real me isn't a great deal any less vitriolic towards her than the more shoot from the hip Musket nonsense.

If people are minded to laud praise on her it is only right that a sense of balance allows the other side of her to be examined too.   If anything makes me queasy it isn't people pointing out the damage she was responsible for, it is the revisionists who praise her whilst trivialising her faults.

She supported apartheid South Africa whilst her husband enjoyed business interests there.

In support of the above she called Mandela a terrorist.

Her son's financial services stake in Cementation whilst she pushed through TML would not stand the scrutiny MPs have now. The corruption would be exposed.

She was Prime Minister of all, and forgot that when she called me the enemy within. Not just the Scargill rebel rousers with their own sticky fingers on union funds but the majority, the miners who were victims caught in the cross fire.

She was the mother of Gordon Gekko.

She was the monster made by the Frankenstein figure of Nicholas Ridley. The praise she gets was in reality the naivety that allowed her to push the dreams of the nasty buggers behind her.

Till they couldn't control their monster and dropped her.

Funny old world.

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: billybob
Date: 10 Apr 13 - 01:01 PM

The debate in the house has been reasonable, without malice and even the left wingers are talking with compassion and respect. Shame some here havent put the TV on and learnt how to show respect for the dead even if you didnt agree with the politics of the deseased.
The point of recalling parliament is to afford the MP's the chance to remember Lady Thatcher as they wish. Not even the Rt Hon MP for Hampstead, Glenda Jackson,has resorted to hate or malice, but she did go on a bit!

I am concerned about the peace of mind of some of the posters here,all this bile will result in bad health and state of mind.

Karma !!!

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 10 Apr 13 - 01:16 PM

She dragged Uk into the real world, dumping the obsolete British coal mines and defeating the stranglehood labor unions had o the economy. She was the best peacetime British leader, and will go down in history as such.
We conservatives (but accepting the new globalism) hope that the Labour Party will remain a minor player in UK, regardless of where we are, UK, U.S., Canada, Australia.

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: meself
Date: 10 Apr 13 - 01:17 PM

"The point of recalling parliament is to afford the MP's the chance to remember Lady Thatcher as they wish."

Thanks. I would have thought that a simple statement or statements would have made more sense, but - not my affair!

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: Jim McLean
Date: 10 Apr 13 - 02:47 PM

"The point of recalling parliament is to afford the MP's the chance to remember Lady Thatcher as they wish."

I think is may have backfired on the Tories as it gave a platform for Angus Robertson, Glenda Jackson and very few others to remind the people how nasty Thatcher's dictatorial attitude to government was. And how sycophantic Milliband was ( and Gerald Kaufman); no backbone. Respect is one thing but crawling on your belly is something else.

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 10 Apr 13 - 02:51 PM

"If you can't say anything good about a dead woman just keep your stupid mouth sht and say nothing. "

On which principle people should shut up about Jimmy Savile... And no, that doesn't mean I'm   Identifying the two, but pointing out the problem with that principle.

If we weren't being deluged with adulation for Thatcher it would be sensible to ignore her death, but unfortunately we are being so deluged. There's an attempt to get people to see her as basically a Good Thing, someone to be proud off. It's happened before with the monsters of our history - Bluff King Hal, Good Queen Elizabeth, Oliver Cromwell.   And people want to say not in my name - she wasn't a Good Thing, she was perhaps the worst thing that has happened in political life in a very long time.

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 10 Apr 13 - 02:51 PM

"If you can't say anything good about a dead woman just keep your stupid mouth sht and say nothing. "

On which principle people should shut up about Jimmy Savile... And no, that doesn't mean I'm   Identifying the two, but pointing out the problem with that principle.

If we weren't being deluged with adulation for Thatcher it would be sensible to ignore her death, but unfortunately we are being so deluged. There's an attempt to get people to see her as basically a Good Thing, someone to be proud off. It's happened before with the monsters of our history - Bluff King Hal, Good Queen Elizabeth, Oliver Cromwell.   And people want to say not in my name - she wasn't a Good Thing, she was perhaps the worst thing that has happened in political life in a very long time.

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 Apr 13 - 02:52 PM

A friend sent me this last night
Jim Carroll
When I realised Margaret Thatcher was dead, I did a double fist pump and shouted, "******* brilliant!"
Everyone around me was disgusted, and looking back, I suppose it was out of order.
Especially as I was the first paramedic at the scene.

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: GUEST,achmelvich
Date: 10 Apr 13 - 03:34 PM

some posters on here seem surprised that her death can be a source of good news to many. in recent decades she and her type have been ripping up so much that is positive in my country. i have opposed her and her policies all my adult life and though we on the left have lost nearly all the battles we have fought against free market ideologies, there is always hope. her death is a rare bit of positive news and who would begrudge anyone a bit of cheer in these difficult days?
mind you, i was partying when the tories lost that election in '97. that good feeling didn't last long. i never thought i could despise any UK politician more than her - though bliar is running her close. naaah, dead or alive she is still the most poisonous.

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: akenaton
Date: 10 Apr 13 - 06:01 PM

You must be joking!
Have you seen or heard Mr Blair recently.

Blair was much worse than Thatcher, a Labour politician who continued and refined capitalist economic policy, a Labour leader who coaxed the British people into a foreign war which had absolutely nothing to do with our security, with subsequent horrific loss of life, who ignored the plight of our young people, encouraged unemployment, increased privatisation, increased de-regulation of the financial sector.

Mrs Thatcher pursued policies which increased the life expectancy of the Capitalist system, Blair ....a Labour politician, pursued the same policies in his own interests...and against the interests of those who he was supposed to represent.

But will there be dancing from the left on Mr Blair's demise....I don't think so.

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 10 Apr 13 - 06:42 PM

I would think that that on the whole the sense of jubilation when Blair goes will be pretty universal.

The difference is while the country is divided between people who adore Thatcher and those who detest her, pretty well everyone (apart from a dwindled set of failed careerists on the right of Labour) see Blair as pretty despicable. In a sense he's a genuine one nation man, uniting a divided country in a shared emotion of contempt.

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: Allan Conn
Date: 10 Apr 13 - 06:52 PM

"If you can't say anything good about a dead woman just keep your stupid mouth sht and say nothing."

I don't think that is a reasonable position too take. Some people (ie the celebration parties etc) have acted in a most inappropriate manner and some comments on the net are not in good taste. However politically she was a divisive figure so you can't expect everyone to suddenly say she is wonderful just because she has died. The dead are not beyond criticism.

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: akenaton
Date: 11 Apr 13 - 02:39 AM

Allan....At least people should make an attempt to understand why she acted as she did.

If they did that, they would see the problems are more deep rooted.

Marx wrote of "the contradictions".....they can no longer be ignored.

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 11 Apr 13 - 03:55 AM

Everyone has their reasons for anything they do. That includes the people who do the very worst. That should temper our personal comments but it is never a reason to let up on our rejection of what they have done.

There is a fine line between seeking to understand and justifying, but it's as important to hold that line whether we are talking about Margaret Thatcher, Osama Bin Laden or Jimmy Savile. and no, I'm not saying those are alll the same, just illustrating a principle.

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: Megan L
Date: 11 Apr 13 - 04:10 AM

Hate is a powerful emotion.
When we hate it is easy to dehumanise the subject of our hatred.
When we dehmanise anyone be it an individual or group it allows us to justify whatever happens.

Of such things are genocide created.

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: billybob
Date: 11 Apr 13 - 04:41 AM

Megan
the voice of reason
thank you

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 11 Apr 13 - 04:59 AM

"If people like that dislike me for what I do, then I must be doing something right"

Margaret Thatcher

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 11 Apr 13 - 05:22 AM

"People like that"

Otherwise known as "not one of us".

And that, I suggest, is something of which we should be proud.

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 11 Apr 13 - 05:46 AM

Date: 10 Apr 13 - 02:51 PM

"If you can't say anything good about a dead woman just keep your stupid mouth sht and say nothing. "

On which principle people should shut up about Jimmy Savile... And no, that doesn't mean I'm   Identifying the two, but pointing out the problem with that principle.

If we weren't being deluged with adulation for Thatcher it would be sensible to ignore her death, but unfortunately we are being so deluged.
Unfortunately both the threads started on Mudcat seem to have been started by those who are Anti-Maggie. Also the majority of posts seem that way inclined. So (in the case of Mudcat at least) it seems the 'deluge' is already flowing in the opposite direction.

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: GUEST,Fred McCormick
Date: 11 Apr 13 - 06:19 AM

Nice to see that, amid all the sycophancy and crocodile tears, there was at least one contributor to yesterday's waste of £30-000 who told their colleagues exactly
what they thought .

Good on yer, Glenda. I always knew the Labour party had at least one member with some backbone.

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 11 Apr 13 - 06:26 AM

""On which principle people should shut up about Jimmy Savile... And no, that doesn't mean I'm   Identifying the two, ""

I rather think it does McG!

You have undoubtedly linked somebody, with whose politics you disagree, with a filthy paedophile.

I think it's well past time that incitement to political hatred were placed alongside racial and religious as the crime it undoubtedly should be.

It's a bit pathetic to accuse Mrs Thatcher (note the mmannerly use of the Prefix) of being divisive, when half of you are busily engaged in the same actions.

Don T.

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: Stu
Date: 11 Apr 13 - 07:55 AM

"It's a bit pathetic to accuse Mrs Thatcher (note the mmannerly use of the Prefix) of being divisive, when half of you are busily engaged in the same actions."

No disrespect meant, but how do you know everyone's being divisive? Perhaps people's experiences mean they reason to see Thatcher as divisive, I know mine certainly did. Also, many people work towards community cohesion and making the places they live better places to be on a voluntary basis, working hard for the common good. It does happen, and despite the likes of Thatcher and Cameron and his insulting 'Big Society' some people do it for reasons other than economics. They haven't driven compassion out of society yet.

If this reeks of self-rightousness then I would simply ask you to read some of the drivel that has been talked and written by admirers of the now rusting Iron Lady.

I patted her on the back once (true). Streuth.

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: The Sandman
Date: 11 Apr 13 - 08:27 AM

he may have been a paedophile, but then I suppose you are unaware that there are also paedophiles who post on this forum.
They have every right to do so.
Don, you too are showing hatred for Saville.
the same sort of hatred that some posters condemn, it should be borne in mind that he raised 40 million for charity, that does not excuse his sexual perversions, but it is nevertheless a fact.
Mrs Thatcher in my opinion should not be receiving a state funeral. Winston Churchill received a state funeral because he was our leader during the second world war,and led the country against nazi invaders in my opinion mrs thtcher no more deserves a state funeral than any other past national leader., she cannot be compared to Churchill, any more than any other UK NATIONAL leader can.

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: akenaton
Date: 11 Apr 13 - 08:31 AM

When Mrs T referred to "people like them", i believe she meant people like the Scottish idiots who disgraced our country by celebrating the death of one old lady, who was no longer in the position to harm anyone.
Never voted Tory in my life, but everyone deserves a little respect in death
Hitler, and I dont agree with the analogy, was still a threat to the world when he died, his death probably shortened the war and saved lives so of course we could celebrate his passing, but an old infirm lady, suffering from the effects of old age....I suppose her death was a release, but not a cause for celebration

Tho' I opposed her policies, and got my head bashed for my trouble, she had more spirit and guts than those who did a victory dance on the streets of Glasgow.

Alex Salmond should apologise for the behaviour of some of our citizens.

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: billybob
Date: 11 Apr 13 - 08:44 AM

Dick, it's not a " State" funeral.

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 11 Apr 13 - 09:34 AM

The point I was making, as I explained, was that an absolute and unqualified principle never speak ill of the dead means in the case of all people. If it was a matter of "don't be nasty about this person because they aren't bad enough to merit it", that would be a completely different matter.
............................

No it's not technically a State Funeral, just an enormous ceremonial funeral with a massive procession with a gun carriage, and Central London closed down for the occasion, with full military honours and the Queen drafted in to pay her respects, all paid for by the state. Quite a different thing.

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: MikeL2
Date: 11 Apr 13 - 09:41 AM

Hi

I detested Maggie and all she stood for. But I won't celebrate because I feel that we should respect death regardless of who it is.

She's gone so let her rest in peace.

Cheers

MikeL2

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: Stu
Date: 11 Apr 13 - 10:25 AM

"Dick, it's not a " State" funeral."

In all but name it is, and apart from the lying in state Thatcher is being afforded the same privilege as Diana or the Queen Mother. In fact, apart from Churchill (who is a special case) the monarch has not attended the funeral of any of her prime ministers. On top of this, by giving Thatcher the whole shebang from soldiers, gun carriages and a service in St. Paul's the government is attempting to elevate her to the status afforded the royals. This is wrong by any measure, because as a democracy there should be a separation between the heads of the monarchy and the state and this fiasco blurs that distinction further than it already is (especially in the eyes of foreigners) and the more gullible amongst us. It reeks a degree of the self-righteous, hubristic entitlement that one-nation little Englander tories seem to excel at; a complete lack of humility that damns them as the myopic, unquestioning and shallow materialists they are (as an ex-member of the Young Conservatives back in the early 1980's I know this to be true).

Of course, we're paying for this circus in a time of austerity when people are once again suffering under a callous and uncaring tory government, and this is simply insulting, and I guess it is meant to be so. Fair enough, stick the old girl in the ground in the appropriate manner and with due deference and be done with it and we'll all pay as we would any other ex-prime minister, but to rub the noses of the people in the misery of their own suffering as a political statement (which this funeral undoubtedly is, as the view of the organisers is not the consensus of opinion in the country) is rather boorish to say the least.

To dismiss the suffering, depravation and appalling effects on millions of ordinary people in the present economic climate as well as during Thatcher's tenure by holding a populist, ostentatious display of political mutual masturbation under the premise of a funeral ("Look! We are the chosen ones! God is on our side! The Queen and Clarkson are coming to St. Margaret's funeral! You dissenters are all scum for voicing an opinion!) is typical of the insensitive and unpleasant nature of the conservative party, and the people involved deserved the criticism that is being heaped upon them. It's a real shame they don't have a modicum of taste or decorum but them you get the impression they wouldn't know what they were anyway. Louts with cash.

One thing . . . I think many people are not celebrating the death of one infirm old lady (which is distasteful), but the demise of a character; the embodiment of a certain political and social ideology that was called 'Margaret Thatcher'. This is the character responsible for the issues the consequences of which we are still dealing with in the present day.

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: Rog Peek
Date: 11 Apr 13 - 10:47 AM

Akenaton - You seem to be suggesting that, had Hitler lived on to become old and infirm, that we should have shown him respect in death. I'm sorry, but respect is something to be earned, and for me, neither Hiter or Thatcher did that, along with a few others like Pinochet for example who Thatcher admired immensely.

Rog

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: GUEST,achmelvich
Date: 11 Apr 13 - 10:49 AM

i will be happy enough to celebrate bliar's passing as well, as long as he has gone a long way towards serving a long sentence following his appearance at the hague. as for her - any excuse for a party. i never felt the need to give her respect while she was alive, to do so now would make me a hypocrite when i'd rather be dancing. and i bet she played jungle music at 3 in the morning

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: Jim McLean
Date: 11 Apr 13 - 11:01 AM

I don't know what Alex SLmond had to do with people dancing in the street, I don't even think he was in Scotland at the time. We shouldn't equate him with all things Scottish ... he is a leader of a party and the First Minister but I'm sure there were a few Scottish Socialist Republicans and Labour dancers. I too think Glenda was brilliant as was Angus Robertson but where was the voice of Scottish Labout?

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: Allan Conn
Date: 11 Apr 13 - 12:01 PM

"It's a bit pathetic to accuse Mrs Thatcher (note the mmannerly use of the Prefix) of being divisive,"

It is not an accusation as much as a statement of fact! Divisive in this contect meaning tending to divide opinion and she divided opinion sharply. Much more so than most politicians. Especially here in Scotland. She of course had her admirers and supporters but there is no denying that she was undoubtedly the most unpopular politician of certainly the second half of the 20thC here. That's not to say she chose to be divisive. Apparently she couldn't understand why she was so despised in Scotland when she admired Scotland so much. Though of course it wasn't the real Scotland of the 20thC she admired. It was Victorian Scotland.

I do think that people celebrating someone's death is offensive but I don't see how the dead are beyond any criticism. That was all I was saying.

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: akenaton
Date: 11 Apr 13 - 12:43 PM

I didn't mean to pick on you Allan, I agree with most of your stated views.

But along with all the hatred for Mrs Thatcher in Scotland and the loss of jobs, thousands rushed to take advantage of the "right to buy" scheme which Mrs Thatcher championed.
Some whom I have known for years as Labour through and through were first in the queue

SJ...Mrs Thatcher was not personally responsible for the issues we are dealing with today. She tried to make a Capitalist economy in decline, competitive......and she succeeded for a while, as did Blair, but you cant make water run uphill, the pendulum was swinging and we can see the result today. "Financial products" and "life on credit" were the last throw of the dice, but it couldn't work. Whether Mrs Thatcher had existed or not, the system was bound to fail when our goods and services were too expensive, shoddy, or in the case of the financial boom, simply a huge scam.

Funny thing is, politicians are still telling us that it can be fixed...but you will have noticed that they're very short on detail as to how this is to be accomplished.
Apparently turning us all into paupers, and condemning our kids to a life without purpose is about the best they can come up with....Ake.

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 11 Apr 13 - 01:00 PM

The Right to Buy meant that the only way to have a realistic ability to move if the circumstances of your life meant you had to move would be to buy, since the possibility of getting an exchamge council tenancy wa effectively vanishing. Refusing to buy on a matter of rinciple - which some people did - would put you at a serious disadvantage.

The problem with the right to buy was that it didn't include a requirement to sell back to the council at the same price, adjusted for inflation, so that the housing stock would not be eroded. It could have been done that way, and if so it would have been a very good thing. As it was, though it provided a windfall for some, it has been a disaster for society.

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: Greg F.
Date: 11 Apr 13 - 01:03 PM

Thatcher's legacy will indeed live on. It poisons our country today, and it will keep on poisoning it into the foreseeable future.

Spot on, Kevin. The same can be said for her demented buddy Ron Reagan's legacy here in the U.S.

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: Penny S.
Date: 11 Apr 13 - 01:52 PM

I heard this from Giles Fraser yesterday. The comments beneath show what I am beginning to think is a characteristic of a certain sort of right wing poster (not here), also shown beneath Glenda Jackson's speech, of accusing the left wing of being mad, ugly, ignorant, etc etc. I know in this instance some people have done similar things with regard to Lady Thatcher, but usually the abuse is about what she did, not her appearance or mental capacity (before her sad illness).

Giles Fraser

It looks as if the Conservatives are doing this the way they are to reclaim the Cathedral from the Runcie prayers which she did not like.

I once went to a lecture by Barry Cunliffe, who explained the placing of Bronze Age barrows along the boundary of territories as a boast to their neighbours. They did it "because they could". There are clear examples in the animal world, which I wouldn't want to be explicit about. Among humans, the Catholic Church celebrated Mass in the mosque in Cordoba, to claim it from the Muslims, and Muslims have a similar belief about saying their prayers in churches. It looks to me as if this is doing something of the sort, putting us peons in our place.

Hearing Tory spokespeople going on about showing respect, Lady Thatcher saving the country, being revered by many people, it seems that there is a total lack of recognition of the harm that was done by her programme, or that some people have a perfectly sound reason for their attitude.

I have a sore throat from shouting "NOT IN MY NAME" at the radio. How can we afford this when we have to have people donating to food banks for the poor?

Penny

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: The Sandman
Date: 11 Apr 13 - 02:28 PM

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How much will Margaret Thatcher's funeral cost?

How much is it really going to cost to lay Margaret Thatcher to rest? We've taken a look at the different funeral options available and the potential costs
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Silent farewell to Churchill
Margaret Thatcher's funeral next week will be of a scale not accorded to a former prime minister since Sir Winston Churchill's state ceremony in 1965. Photograph: Pa

Whether it's £8m or £10m, the estimated costs of Margaret Thatcher's funeral that are being widely reported don't seem to be based on any clear sources. Not here at the Datablog. We take a look at the different types of funeral to bury Britain's 'exceptionally distinguished' commoners and consider the costs that might be incurred.
Big British funerals
Funeral cost graphic Click on image for full-size graphic. Design by Finbarr Sheehy

If the estimates that are being circulated are correct, the funeral of Margaret Thatcher will be the most expensive in British history. The funeral of Sir Winston Churchill required £2,000 to cover the expenses of fire, police and civil defence services (the equivalent of almost £33,000 in 2012). Though policing costs aren't known, the Queen Mother's funeral cost the Ministry of Defence around £301,000 in 2002.
THE EXPENSIVE COST OF BURYING MRS THATCHER IS DISGRACEFUL.

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 11 Apr 13 - 05:24 PM


I would think that that on the whole the sense of jubilation when Blair goes will be pretty universal.

The difference is while the country is divided between people who adore Thatcher and those who detest her, pretty well everyone (apart from a dwindled set of failed careerists on the right of Labour) see Blair as pretty despicable. In a sense he's a genuine one nation man, uniting a divided country in a shared emotion of contempt.

I challenge that.
Like Thatcher, Blair never lost an election.
Labour has never before or since enjoyed such electoral success.
Their vote collapsed just half a term after he handed over to Brown.
Blair brokered the deal that finally brought peace to Northern Ireland
He saved the Muslim people of Bosnia.

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: The Sandman
Date: 11 Apr 13 - 05:40 PM

I cannot argue with that apart from" Labour has never before or since enjoyed such electoral success".
I suggest Atlee, otherwise factually correct

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 11 Apr 13 - 05:50 PM

The roe of parties is to try to shape society in a specific way. Winning elections is important as a way of avhieving that, otherwise the victories are pointless, except as a way of furthering the careers of the politicians involved, which is competely insignificant to everyone else.

Ending the war in Northern Ireland was a great achievement. We can be grateful that Tony Blair didn't prevent other people, notably Mo Mowlam, helping achieve that. Yes there were some positive things. But the overwhelming story of those ten years was a wasted opportunity and a betrayal of the hopes of those who voted him into power.

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: akenaton
Date: 11 Apr 13 - 06:02 PM

The "right to buy scheme" was a political masterstroke, boosting the housing market.....while at the same time giving millions of people "something to lose"

Nothing concentrates the mind like having a little "something to lose".

Why do you think we are so accepting of what is being done to us?
Before long they will be into our savings....helping themselves.
Think it couldn't happen here?.....Dream on!

Of course in the long term the RTBS was always going to be a social disaster, widely abused, many made fortunes buying the best council property and re-selling at hugely inflated prices.

The residue of council houses were in ghetto's inhabited by the underclass.....it became impossible young folks to get a decent home without saddling themselves with lifelong debt.
To all intents and purposes council housing sceased to exist.

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: GUEST,Jck Sprocket
Date: 11 Apr 13 - 06:35 PM

From the notorious "no such thing as society" interview for Woman's Own:

Well, we import far too much timber and really, if Sweden and Norway can grow their own timber—they are rather more to the north of us—then we really ought to be able to grow quite a lot of our own.

No wonder her grasp of geography wowed the Americans. She must have been coached by Denis for that.

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: The Sandman
Date: 12 Apr 13 - 03:01 AM

why is so much money being spent on one prime ministers funeral, how can this be justified., meanwhile the present uk government is enforcing draconian cuts, are we living in cloud cuckoo land

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Apr 13 - 05:09 AM

A moving tribute from Ken Loach
Jim Carroll

LOACH REMEMBERS THE OTHER MAGGIE
If youve been watching the Thatcher Channel (that's to say, any channel) over the last week, you may have found yourself wondering when Ken Loach, unreconstructed socialist, was going to turn up and ruin the indecent wake. The veteran director - whose recent documentary, 'The Spirit of '45' bemoaned Mrs. Thatcher's demolition of the post-war consensus - did eventually issue a characteristically robust statement.
"Margaret Thatcher was the most divisive and destructive Prime Minister of modern times," he wrote. "Remember, she called Mandela a terrorist and took tea with the torturer and murderer Pinochet. How should we honour her? Let's privatise her funeral. Put it out to competitive tender and accept the cheapest bid. It's what she'd have wanted."
Very nicely put, sir.
Irish Times (The Ticket) 12.4.13

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Apr 13 - 05:13 AM

Sorry Jim, McL, didn't see yours, but worth repeating
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 12 Apr 13 - 05:35 AM

"Margaret Thatcher was the most divisive and destructive Prime Minister of modern times," he wrote. "Remember, she called Mandela a terrorist and took tea with the torturer and murderer Pinochet."
,..,
Let me say that I think this perfectly fair comment, and cogently expressed, even though I would obviously not agree to any great extent with its evaluations. It is a proper and courteous statement of Mr Loach's view. Be it noted that he has expressed it without the use of any of that ill-expressed obloquy and abusive terminology of the sort which has marred and disgraced and degraded so many contributions to the thread.

~M~

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: GUEST,Blandiver
Date: 12 Apr 13 - 05:59 AM

Sorry if this has already been posted here, but it's worth watching more than the once!

www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDtClJYJBj8

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: GUEST,Blandiver
Date: 12 Apr 13 - 06:02 AM

I'm sorry. I'll post that again.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDtClJYJBj8