Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: GUEST,Fred McCormick
Date: 13 Apr 13 - 07:19 AM

mgm. [whoever that ignorant fool was seems to have taken his stupid self away].
M. I haven't gone anywhere. I am still eulogising over the death of Thatcher. Plus, in view of the fact that you seem to have reverted to type (IE., insulting anyone and everyone who disagrees with you in the most tiresome and offensive language imaginable), I am hoping you will soon join her.

Either that or Grow Up!

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 13 Apr 13 - 07:51 AM

Wasn't referring to you whatever, Fred; haven't even thought of you since can't remember when; so whatever made you think I meant the Great McC? Why so paranoid?

It was that Jasper Someone-or-other who suddenly jumped in & started attacking me that I was ref'ing ~~ & see Don T's response to him a few posts back.

Now go back to sleep, Fred McDear♥

☺〠☺~M~☺〠☺

And ♫ o Sir Jasper do not touch me...♫

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 13 Apr 13 - 07:55 AM

...and thank you for your most charming death wish. How about trying to grow up your-icky·wicky·bitty-self, my honeybun?!

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: GUEST,Fred McCormick
Date: 13 Apr 13 - 07:58 AM

CS. "Ding Dong the Witch is Dead is No 1"

Dunno where they've got that one from. It was reported on the news last night, the day after the Guardian report, that it had got to No 3. I've no idea how that translates into numbers of downloads, but considering that the wicked witch has been dead for less than a week, I'd consider that pretty damned spectactular.

In the normal run of things I lost interest in pop chart successes over fifty years ago. In fact I consider such matters to be about as childish as peppering Mudcat Cafe with the sort of peurile insults which one member of this forum said he'd grown out of. Apparently he hasn't, but never mind.

Anyway, what I was about to say was that on one Monday morning in January 1963, I was walking into work with some of my workmates, when one of them shouted to somebody across the road, "Number 3". He was referring to the fact that the Beatles Please Please Me had reached No 3 in the pop charts.

An insignificant recollection, you might think. But remember that was only their second British single, and look what that led to.

Oh, and take no notice of that man behind the curtain, sorry, sobriquet. The one who keeps operating complicated contraptions and blowing out clouds of steam and talking rubbish to impress his audience. The Wizard of Oz was an MGM production afer all.

One final thought which everybody seems to have overlooked. Ding Dong was written by Yip Harburg, who is nowadays probably better remembered as the writer of Buddy Can You Spare A Dime? Harburg was eventually hauled before the HUAC and blacklisted for saying things which he was perfectly and legally entitled to say. But, like at least one contributor to this thread - yes, I'm talking about the man behind the curtain - the American establishment took exception to and tried to suppress the man's right to free speech.

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: GUEST,Fred McCormick
Date: 13 Apr 13 - 08:00 AM

See what I mean? The man is either in his dotage or his second childhood.

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 13 Apr 13 - 08:37 AM

"The Wizard of Oz was an MGM production after all."
.,.
Indeed ~~ produced by my first cousin twice removed Louis B; who, despite the difference in spelling, was my paternal grandfather's first cousin. Perhaps that makes the exquisite J Garland my sort of mistress-in-law twice removed, waddya think? Still in tenuous touch with my Mayer cousins in Calfornia, anyhow.

Perhaps one of these days I shall contrive to comprehend a single syllable uttered by that pathetic McCormick person. But my breath is not held. I daresay he thinks he knows what he is on about, poor paranoid booby. And he has the gall to go on about 'dotages' and 'abuse' ~~

This last did get to me, in fact; it being known that I am one of the very few on this forum who resolutely eschew any sort of obscene or indecent language, & have done so for upwards of three years. Still, there is no pleasing some little minds, is there?!?

~M~

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 13 Apr 13 - 08:42 AM

But seriously, tho, because it is bugging me to an exiguous extent ~~ can anyone identify anything I have posted above that can so have rocked McC's boat & made him imagine I had him anywhere in my thoughts whatever? Coz I am dashed if I can. That's what I am, Jeeves. I am positively dashed!.

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: GUEST,Jack Sprocket
Date: 13 Apr 13 - 08:45 AM

Thatcher's death moved me neither to mourning nor celebration. As a person, she hasn't mattered for twenty tears. But her legacy lives on, and it took my pension and the jobs and homes my children should have had. We pretend to have an economy, selling each other pensions and pizzas, while out in the real world our savings of three hundred years are gradually siphoned off to pay for cheap crap. Those with real wealth have protected it abroad, below them a self perpetuating uberklasse award each other fancy salaries while making as sure as they can that what work exists is doled out as a punishment. Sitting atop of a billion tonnes of coal, we import it from as far away as Australia.

But there's an upside, that you can make idiots foam at the mouth just by saying 'ding dong'.

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 13 Apr 13 - 08:54 AM

She had the guts to say fuck off to the Argentine bully boys and the hideous scargill and his miner bully boys.

All the pathetic lefty frothing here as usual!!!!!

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 13 Apr 13 - 08:56 AM

Truly sorry for your misfortunes, Jack; but I think that you [individually and collectively] are, rather flatteringly in a way, over-estimating her influence and her powers in the matter. As someone says in one of David Lodge's fine novels set at the time: "It is no good blaming Thatcher as if she is some sort of witch who has cast an evil spell on the nation. She is just riding the zeitgeist." And so she was. It was surely all going to go belly-up one way or the other, with or without her; and probably on a far less even keel, and with more widespread damage, without.

~M~

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Apr 13 - 09:09 AM

"eected not once, not twice, but three times, with %s of the vote exceeded only [as Dick never tires of pointing out] by the egregious Attlee" - not strictly accurate. In fact on only two occasions since 1931 had the winning party failed to get more than the highest percentage the Thatcher government received.

I'd agree with you that Attlee was an outstanding Prime Minister...

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: Jim McLean
Date: 13 Apr 13 - 09:20 AM

If Thatcher made this such a Great country, why don't her children live here?

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Apr 13 - 09:33 AM

Michael Grosvenor Myer

Shouldn't that be Michael The Grosvenor Myer? As I already know too many Michaels, would it be all right if I called you The?

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 13 Apr 13 - 09:38 AM

By all means? In return, shall I call you Hen ~~ or is it Ven?

☺☺☺~M~☺☺☺

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Apr 13 - 09:46 AM

Doesn't he understand that what made people suffer was Capitalism in decline

Would that be the capitalism that the taxpayer bales out to the tune of hundreds of billions when bankers go all irresponsible on us? Would it be the capitalism that taxpayers bale out to the tune of hundreds of billions in benefit payments that go straight into the hands of little Rachmans, or in housing benefits, council tax benefits and working tax credits that are, in every sense, a massive subsidy to giant companies who don't pay their workers enough to live on yet pay themselves massive bonuses and huge dividends to their shareholders? Not to speak of conducting their affairs offshore and diddling the treasury to the tune of hundreds of billions? That sort of capitalism? Well, if you ask me, the sooner that sort of capitalism declines the better.

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Apr 13 - 09:48 AM

Hen. Well, at least I suppose if you call me Hen you're not calling me a cock...

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Apr 13 - 09:48 AM

Hen. Well, at least I suppose if you call me Hen you're not calling me a cock...

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: Stu
Date: 13 Apr 13 - 10:52 AM

Er, look, I hate to interrupt again, but where can I find 'Character Viewer' on my mac?

Thanks!

SfJ

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: Stu
Date: 13 Apr 13 - 10:58 AM

Let's remember Thatcher and her ship of fools as we saw of them at the time.

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 13 Apr 13 - 11:26 AM

Sugarfoot ~~ Click on Edit in the header menu, and you should find "Special Characters" as the last option. Alternatively, click on the flag in the header menu, the one which chooses between Stars & Stripes or Union Jack, & a menu should open with "Character Viewer" or "Character Palette" [depending on model] as an option.

Good luck.

~M~

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: The Sandman
Date: 13 Apr 13 - 01:13 PM

imo, Atlee was the best post war prime minister that we have ever had.

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 13 Apr 13 - 01:16 PM

""But seriously, tho, because it is bugging me to an exiguous extent ~~ can anyone identify anything I have posted above that can so have rocked McC's boat & made him imagine I had him anywhere in my thoughts whatever?""

The only way I can see of that happening is if he and Jasper are in fact one and the same.

A small advantage our anonymous ones have, the ability to operate several personas.

Don T.

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 13 Apr 13 - 01:34 PM

I think you are too young to have been around at the time, Dick. Two jokes doing the rounds at the time that I recall:

An empty taxi pulled up outside 10 Downing Street and Mr Attlee got out.

"Ah, the country wouldn't be in this mess if poor old Attlee was alive!"

I don't altogether disagree with your assessment of him; but he failed, coming back in 1950 with barely a majority, after that astonishing nearly 50% he had achieved in 45, and losing the next election, inevitably, only a year later.

He had his virtues: a man of true principle and strong morality. But, as I never tire of saying, he allowed that appalling ascetic bully Sir Stafford Cripps to ride roughshod over him, and over the nation, to the extent that the way for the Labour Party to make sure of losing an election ever since has been to go to the country with a truly socialist programme. People have long memories for the miseries brought to a country just longing for a bit of relaxation after 6 hard years of danger and privation, all cheerfully accepted as 'the war effort'; but idiotically extended into the peace by the loathsome Cripps ~~ because he could ~~ because Attlee let him! That was unforgivable.

~M~

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 13 Apr 13 - 03:05 PM

But there's an upside, that you can make idiots foam at the mouth just by saying 'ding dong'."...
.,,.
Come clean now, Mr Sprocket ~~ have you actually said "Ding dong" to amyone and found them foam at the mouth in response? Or really seen anyone foaming at the mouth under such stimulus. Honest now. I have just asked my wife to say "Ding dong" to me, but my lips remain resolutely dry...

Everyone out there

pay attention please

DING DONG

☝☝☝☝☝-UP if you are foaming at the mouth.

Come on now!

Anyone?

Hmmmmmmm ~ thought not...

☺〠☺~M~☺〠☺

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 13 Apr 13 - 03:11 PM

♫♫☖☖☖☖♬♬☗☗☗☗☖☖☖☖♩♩♩♩

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 13 Apr 13 - 03:19 PM

♒☺♒☺♒☺♒☺♒☺♒☺♒☺♒☺♒☺♒

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 13 Apr 13 - 04:09 PM

"Ding Dong" seems to have taken feet of its own.
A huge anti-austerity demonstaration incuded banners which said "Ding dong, the witch ain't dead, she's moved into Leinster House (home of the Irish Parliament.
Aghhhh - she lives on - MacColl always claimed she was one of the undead!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 14 Apr 13 - 02:49 AM

Well, Don, now so many hours have passed, it seems you might at that have been right about the true identity of 'J Broadbent' ~~ & Fred's post denying that he had 'gone away' might appear to confirm it. If this really is the case, then how pathetic. Could Fred really have gone to all the trouble of inventing a new fictitious persona, for, it would appear, the sole purpose of attacking me? Can it truly be the case? Certainly nobody has denied it yet, in either persona. If so, I say again, how pathetic! But, from my pov, how really quite flattering!

~M~

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: GUEST,Fred McCormick
Date: 14 Apr 13 - 06:20 AM

Right. Let's get one thing straight. I am not Jasper Broadbent and I have never used that pseudonym on Mudcat or anywhere else.

I might remind Don, it's not so long ago that he accused me of posting a highly offensive comment on another thread. I don't know what the posting said because it was removed before I had chance to read it. Even so, one of the Mudelves killed Mr Wyzywig's accusation stone dead by pointing out that it was posted by someone other than me.

Perhaps the said Mudelf would be good enough to check the Internet Protocol source of Mr Broadbent's postings and confirm that they are not coming from me.

Perhaps, in the ordinary run of things, I could have expected an apology from Mr Wyziwyg. Perhaps, considering the person I was dealing with, I was right not to hold my breath.

I would be very careful, the pair of you.

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 14 Apr 13 - 06:33 AM

Perfectly happy to apologise insofar as I might have been responsible for that confusion in that case, Fred; but must add that I still cannot see why, when I was clearly referring to Mr Broadbent and had had no sort of dealing, pro or anti, with you for several years, you had to jump in to inform me that you "hadn't gone away" when nobody had in no way suggested that you had, or even made any reference to you. No wonder Don's suspicions were aroused by this.

I am finding the whole of this 4-way exchange increasingly puzzling and confusing.

~M~

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: GUEST,Fred McCormick
Date: 14 Apr 13 - 06:43 AM

Thank you Mr MGM. Can we expect a similar apology from Don T Wyziwyg?

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: Stu
Date: 14 Apr 13 - 07:10 AM

"Sugarfoot ~~ Click on Edit in the header menu, and you should find "Special Characters" as the last option."


Brilliant! Thanks very much for the help MtheMG 👍

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 14 Apr 13 - 07:49 AM

""Perhaps, in the ordinary run of things, I could have expected an apology from Mr Wyziwyg. Perhaps, considering the person I was dealing with, I was right not to hold my breath.""

It's worth pointing out, Fred, that we can only react to what we read on our screens, so it's hardly our fault when somebody abuses another poster's ID.

The answer is in your own hands. Become a member and that problem goes away.

Simples!

Don T.

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: GUEST,Fred McCormick
Date: 14 Apr 13 - 08:13 AM

Then why accuse me of posting under the name of Jasper Broadbent when you have absolutely nothing to link me with the poster who uses that alias.

The answer is in your own hands. Apologise for accusing me of posting under the name of Jasper Broadbent and the problem goes away.

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 14 Apr 13 - 09:56 AM

Austerity in the years after the war was, to the best of my knowledge, intended to be applied across society, and very much preferentially against the rich. We really were in hard times following the war. Keeping on with rationing wasn't an arbitrary matter of stopping people enjoying themselves, it was a desperte and largely effective way of ensuring that we were in real terms "all in it together".

In spite of all that the government managed to introduce major improvements to the way society operated. And in the election which brought the end of the Lanour Government, Labour actually had more votes han the victors.

It was the best government we've had in my lifetime.

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 14 Apr 13 - 10:05 AM

"Then why accuse me of posting under the name of Jasper Broadbent when you have absolutely nothing to link me with the poster who uses that alias."
.,,.
Feel bound to point out, Fred, in support of Don, that he was simply responding to my asking why you had answered "I have not gone away" when I said that someone quite recognisable in the context as Jasper Broadbent had gone away. He was only suggesting a possible reason; and, although you have graciously accepted my apology for the misunderstanding, you still have not explained your answering there a point which had not been raised, and I am still greatly exercised as to why you should have done so. I mean, WHY did you suddenly appear on the thread to post "I have not gone away", when nobody had suggested that you had, or even mentioned you?

It is all becoming more and more incomprehensible, more and more complicated, and more & more mysterious. Think I'll just go back to Stoke City & Man Utd!

~M~

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 Apr 13 - 10:51 AM

It never fails to fascinate me how Maggieites invariably shuffle around her unqualified support of Pinochet and her description of those who wanted to put him on trial - "to forgive is divine" I suppose!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 14 Apr 13 - 12:17 PM

The bizarre thing is how those waxing indignant (lovely expression that one, it deserves to be revived) at expressions of derison and contempt towards Thatcher at this time fail to appreciate that those of us who see her in that way feel precisely the same about the chorus of expressions of adulation in the media.

Respect toward someone who has died is one thing, but hagiolatry, and in this case Maggiolatry, is something else. It invites an equivalent response.

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: GUEST,Fred McCormick
Date: 14 Apr 13 - 12:33 PM

The operative word being hag presumably?

What's particularly bugging me at the moment are the cries of "Show respect for the dead" which seem to be coming from all corners of the establishment. "Yes", they say, "She may have done many harsh and cruel things in her time, but she deserves a respectful burial, the same as everyone else."

Respectful burials? Would that include Fred and Rosemary West, Harold Shipman, Jimmy Savile and all the other people who were shunned by humanity as unworthy of respectful burials?

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 14 Apr 13 - 12:55 PM

If she was having a respectful burial, the same as everyone else, I doubt if quite such a head of hostility would have built up. But hundreds of escorting troops, a solemn procession through the streets of London, heads of state and high dignatories in St Paul's, the queen in attendance. That's not "respectful". It invites something stronger than dignified silence from those whose stomach turns over at the very thought.

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: GUEST,Fred McCormick
Date: 14 Apr 13 - 01:22 PM

McG. Quite. The current chaotic state of the economy is directly traceable back to her, so are the policies of the present government. Yet, while millions of people see their living standards slashed, this self same government can afford to spend ten million quid giving her what is in essence, if not in name, a state funeral. Rank bloody hypocrisy.

SteveMansfield "Who's up for a flashmob playing 'Ding Dong The Witch Is Dead' somewhere?"

If you're anywhere near Liverpool, there is to be a massive street party on St George's Plateau in Lime Street (opposite Lime Street station) this coming Wednesday from 6pm. We can safely conclude that Ding Dong The Witch is Dead will be played not once, but many times. We can safely conclude also that I will have the mother and father of all hangovers the following morning.

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 14 Apr 13 - 01:41 PM

"If you're anywhere near Liverpool, there is to be a massive street party on St George's Plateau"
.,,.
Shall be interested to see how 'massive' it turns out to be. Those held so far [see pix I posted above] have been a fair old let-down massivity-wise, haven't they!

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 14 Apr 13 - 01:49 PM

McGrath ~~ we shall just have to differ about the govt of 1945-51, which achieved nothing so far as I can see except enormous resentments and the death of any hope of a socialist government [as distinct from PMs like gabby Kinnock, chummy-daddy Callaghan, face-both-ways Blair] in perpetuity. Austerity, as the 1950 & then 1951 results should clearly demonstrate to anyone claiming to be a democrat, was not what the demos wanted or welcomed or felt entitled to after six years of 'the war effort'.

~M~

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: akenaton
Date: 14 Apr 13 - 01:50 PM

Mr Mcgrath.....The problem as I see it is, why personalise a problem which is purely systemic.
We live in a capitalist country, and Capitalism requires to be competitive to survive.....sure this means casualties, but the system cares nothing for human detriment....only profit.

Personalising this issue gives the impression that if we remove the leader, it will change the nature of the system.

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: billybob
Date: 14 Apr 13 - 01:51 PM

Quite simple, dont go to London on Wednesday, dont turn your TV on or radio, play some calming music and let your blood pressure stay safely low. Or you could do what I am doing, go to work, have a nice glass of wine in the evening and pretend it isnt happening! Because either way ,if you condemn her supporters or the protesters you will get cross and get indigestion. Come on boys calm down!!

Karma

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: The Sandman
Date: 14 Apr 13 - 01:52 PM

News
    Politics
    Margaret Thatcher

Margaret Thatcher 'gave her approval' to her son Mark's failed coup attempt in Equatorial Guinea

Unpublished version of memoir by former SAS officer Simon Mann records Baroness Thatcher's endorsement of plan to depose oil-rich country's president

    Share 1721
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    Daniel Boffey        
    The Observer, Sunday 14 April 2013        

Simon Mann (L) the leader of the group o
Simon Mann at the time of his arrest on charges of trying to topple the president of Equatorial Guinea. Photograph: Getty Images

Margaret Thatcher approved of a failed attempt to use an army of mercenaries to overthrow the president of Equatorial Guinea, according to the unpublished memoirs of the chief protagonist of the bid, former SAS officer Simon Mann.

The former prime minister, whose son, Sir Mark, was convicted in a South African court of involvement in the attempted 2004 coup, allegedly told Mann at a meeting at her Belgravia home: "I'm sure it's going to work".

It is claimed that Thatcher likened the need for radical change in the oil-rich Equatorial Guinea to the way London's Docklands had been redeveloped during the 1980s.

She is also alleged to have encouraged Mann to talk to a group seeking to overthrow the then president of Venezuela, Hugo Chávez, with the words: "We must always look after our friends, Simon … as I'm sure you know."

In an affair known as the Wonga coup, Mann and 69 mercenaries attempted to replace Equatorial Guinea's dictator Teodoro Obiang with an exiled opposition politician, Severo Moto, in March 2004. The escapade went dramatically wrong and led to Mann being convicted and imprisoned.

Mann, whose father was George Mann, captain of the England cricket team in the 1940s, was pardoned and released from the regime's notorious Black Beach prison in 2009, on humanitarian grounds.

Sir Mark attempted to avoid implication in the illegal coup, but was found guilty by a court in South Africa, where he was living at the time, of having provided finance for helicopters to be used in the overthrow. He was fined $500,000 and given a four-year suspended prison sentence.

On his release from prison, Mann said he could never forgive Sir Mark, who he claimed was a key participant in the military adventure rather than a mere investor, for failing to come to his aid. Details of the meetings between Mann and Baroness Thatcher, held in the lead-up to the attempted coup, were originally due to be published in Mann's memoir, Cry Havoc, which came out in 2011. This section was removed on the advice of the publisher, John Blake. However, an early manuscript of the book has been obtained by the Observer and its full claims can be revealed for the first time.

Thatcher's mental capacity was already on the wane in 2003 – the year her husband, Denis, died – when the conversations are said to have occurred. Their content will prove embarrassing for her son as he prepares for his mother's funeral on Wednesday.

Mann had known Thatcher for a number of years by this time: the two were introduced by Sir Mark, who was a neighbour of his in Cape Town. Recording a meeting that took place in the first-floor sitting room of Thatcher's home in Chester Square, in London's Belgravia, in autumn 2003, Mann says it became clear that the former Tory leader knew and approved of the plans for the Equatorial Guinea coup, describing them as "jolly good".

He writes: "Maggie asks me how 'their' money is being handled. I reassure her that it is going through an air ambulance joint venture, separate to any other investment. Maggie talks about the Docklands redevelopment in London. How everything had to be razed to the ground first."

In a later conversation in South Africa, Thatcher is said to have commented: "I do hope you'll be getting on with this job of yours soon, Simon. We mustn't let anyone down, must we?"

Thatcher is also said to have asked whether Mann had yet met a group, led by a man called Sanchos, who were seeking to remove Chávez from Venezuela. Mann writes: "No – I hadn't: but, Mark says, we are seeing him next day, in Eaton Place, just next door."

He continues with Thatcher's reply: "'Good. Well, I hope that goes well too.' She looked at me with her imperial gaze. 'We must always look after our friends, Simon … as I'm sure you know.'"

Mann declined to comment.

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: GUEST,Fred McCormick
Date: 14 Apr 13 - 02:27 PM

Ding Dong! It's reached No 2!

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 14 Apr 13 - 02:28 PM

No, it doesn't start with personality - but personality is often the the key that can be applied to achieve political ends. Right now the game being played by those in power is to use the reconstructed personality as a key to unlocking certain political attitudes which would make to get people on side for that vile politcal ends.

It's theatre, but theatre can make an enormous difference. The tribute to the NHS at the Olympics opening was pure theatre, and it had a considerable political impact at the time.
...........

Yes, we differ about the 1945 government, M - I grew up looking back at it as a good time. Even sweet rations meant I got more sweets, because my parents gave me theirs. Wrecked my teeth... We were pretty clearly skint as a country, and rationing made sense because it put us all on the same level, in contrast to what is called "austerity" today which most decidedly does not.   

The pity was that an electoral quirk put the Tories in to relax things, rather than a second-half Labour government, but that's how it worked out. And it was Tories on their best behaviour, more or less, for another generation.

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: GUEST,Fred McCormick
Date: 14 Apr 13 - 02:31 PM

300. Well it would be if McG hadn't repeated himself. Well, perhaps it needed saying twice.

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 14 Apr 13 - 04:25 PM

""Then why accuse me of posting under the name of Jasper Broadbent when you have absolutely nothing to link me with the poster who uses that alias.

The answer is in your own hands. Apologise for accusing me of posting under the name of Jasper Broadbent and the problem goes away.""

No mate, the answer is in the way you responded when Mike had a go at Jasper.

You dived in as though he had personally atacked you, which automatically raises suspicions as to who exactly you are defending.

Your own doing sir!

Don T.