Miley Cyrus

Subject: Miley Cyrus
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 27 Aug 13 - 06:08 PM

OK, puzzled here.

Don't people understand that pop and rock music is about sex?

That being so, what is upsetting people?

I see proclamations of Xtianity - shit they did that about Presley.

I see worries about the sexuality of her performance - they did that about Presley too.

I see stuff about twerking - well, apart from the issue of whether ipse dixit it is about electrically induced reactions, have people not watched African dance or Jamaican dancehall?

What is it with the right =- and particularly the USAian fundagelical right?

Women are sexual beings (as are men) and have the same liberty as men to sexual display.

Subject: RE: Miley Cyrus
From: Wesley S
Date: 27 Aug 13 - 06:13 PM

I think a lot of it stems from the fact that she used to be a "Disney Kid" on a squeaky clean show for young girls. And they don't want to see her change.

Subject: RE: Miley Cyrus
From: GUEST,Lizzie Cornish
Date: 27 Aug 13 - 06:17 PM

grooming of our children, Richard, for a start...

It was the most vile and disgusting charade of non-talent I've ever seen..and if that's all she can offer she should walk off into the sunset now...

Geezus!!!! SO many INCREDIBLY talented musicians who get NO recognition at all and yet this appalling semi-pornographic farce has become world-famous?????

Truly, if this is where we are going, as a species, it's time for all of us to start appearing in Mudcat's Obit Threads, as in, the entire human species, because we are so fucked up now that truly, it's time to retire, as gracefully as we can...

Give me Audrey Hepburn any day...and the sooner we go back to those days, the better!

YEESH!!

And let's examine the folks BEHIND this revolting spectacle, shall we? And ask their motives, other than to make her infamous for being such a prat....

Miley Cyrus embarrassing the Human Race....Beam us up, Scottie!

Subject: RE: Miley Cyrus
From: Jeri
Date: 27 Aug 13 - 06:18 PM

Desperation breeds contempt. I think that's it. She's just trying waaaaay too hard.

Subject: RE: Miley Cyrus
From: Little Hawk
Date: 27 Aug 13 - 06:26 PM

I suspect she's doing exactly what her handlers want her to do...thus gaining great notoriety...which makes money for whoever is sponsoring her.

In any case, I haven't been interested enough to even watch that video, despite the fact that it's there on the Youtube page every time I open it. Nothing about it that attracts my interest. I watch videos of music I like and find interesting, and I don't think I've ever watched one of her videos yet.

Subject: RE: Miley Cyrus
From: Jeri
Date: 27 Aug 13 - 06:29 PM

I suspect "jumping the shark" will be translated to "humping the foam finger", but probably just for pop music.

Subject: RE: Miley Cyrus
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 27 Aug 13 - 06:31 PM

Lizzie, you are an idiot. Two of the highest selling US songs of the year and you say "non-talent"? Jealously and fear are your problems.

As for children - STAY AWAY. You and your kind have done almost as much to damage the minds of children, both in your hostility to learning and in your hostility to the sexuality which WILL make them happy as the Spanish Inquisition.

Subject: RE: Miley Cyrus
From: Jeri
Date: 27 Aug 13 - 08:01 PM

She may have talent, Richard, but the it wasn't evident at that awards show. Someone once told me that a musician has to decide whether they want to be known for their music or their personal lives, because that's what people will care about. True, pop music is a bit of both talent and personality. But while I'm sure she sang something, I can't remember that at all.

Meanwhile, Lady Gaga ended up in a thong bikini, waggled both butt cheek, and I remember her song. How she managed to do that with what I saw as taste and the 21 year-old girl in a (warning: Miley ass photo) glute-tube symbolically fucking a big foam finger made me hope there were paramedics standing by backstage with an emergency dose of Monistat. That rubber didn't look like it breathed much. It would have been funny if it weren't so sad. Aw, the hell with it... it was still funny.

Subject: RE: Miley Cyrus
From: DebC
Date: 27 Aug 13 - 08:53 PM

I certainly have more important things to be concerned about.

Deb Cowan

Subject: RE: Miley Cyrus
From: PHJim
Date: 27 Aug 13 - 08:59 PM

Richard, If that performance was representative of Miley's talent, then you can't really blame Lizzie for criticizing it. I realise that what Lizzie or I or the other posters here like might not be the same as your tastes, but I find it really hard to appreciate the talent that went into that performance. Often I can appreciate the talent that goes into a performance, even if I don't like listening to it, but not in this case. I will admit that this is the first and only piece of Miley's musical work that I have ever seen or heard, but I don't think I'm about to run out and listen to any more Miley based on that.
I didn't find her performance disgusting, just uninteresting.

Subject: RE: Miley Cyrus
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 27 Aug 13 - 09:12 PM

Are you really puzzled, Richard?

Or are you, perhaps, feigning puzzlement to make a point of how you envision sexuality *should* ideally be—that is, void of any cultural trappings?

I agree that this is not a big deal (i.e. in perspective), but it's clear why there would be "buzz" over the incident. And it's got nothing to do with "USAian" (American, thanks) conservatives and Christians.

Subject: RE: Miley Cyrus
From: Jack Campin
Date: 27 Aug 13 - 09:17 PM

At some point, if they want their careers to continue, girl performers in pop need to make some sort of statement that they want to be seen as women performers. She's doing exactly what Kylie Minogue did a couple of decades ago, and without obviously heading for a celebrity meltdown as Britney Spears did when trying the same thing. So it's hard to see a problem.

Subject: RE: Miley Cyrus
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 27 Aug 13 - 09:59 PM

Isn't it about time someone praised it as the new folk music?

Subject: RE: Miley Cyrus
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 27 Aug 13 - 11:13 PM

well, speaking as someone who reckons Robin Thicke's "Blurred Lines"
is one of the best pop singles for nearly 2 decades..

..it's certainly a very daft performance setpiece..

fair to say even quite shite....

but hardly lewd enough for anyone on any extreme side of the perennial morality vs. art divide
to seriously get their knickers in a twist about...????

Subject: RE: Miley Cyrus
From: Phil Cooper
Date: 27 Aug 13 - 11:33 PM

I didn't watch. I don't feel any connection to most of the music the VMA show promotes. So, my opinion is pretty much the same as Deb Cowan's.

Subject: RE: Miley Cyrus
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 28 Aug 13 - 04:02 AM

I don't think all that much of Thicke's "Blurred lines" - although it does reference a significant cultural phenomenon of such mixed messages - but if you compare the VMA dance routine with the uncensored official Thicke video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyDUC1LUXSU you will also see the Miley Cyrus dance routine paying homage to a number of parts of the video - even down to the big foam finger.

The outrage seems to be because a woman took the initiative this time. That is discriminatory.

I detect the same dual standard in Gibb Sahib's post here - considering his championing of the cruder versions of shanties (Particularly "Whip Jamboree") in the past on this site.

In general the Miley moves were very bowdlerised compared to Jamaican dancehall - examples here - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uY88mEdF54g

and here - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHUhj9o8mbc.

Subject: RE: Miley Cyrus
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 28 Aug 13 - 04:25 AM

It's also pretty tamed down from Ndombolo - here - http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D8l9XzAVTeTE&h=_AQGNJS_i

and note cultural pathway briefly explained here - http://vimeo.com/15089105

Subject: RE: Miley Cyrus
From: selby
Date: 28 Aug 13 - 04:30 AM

There is no such thing as bad publicity, and publicity makes money. She is a singer and an actress and that is what she does, Cher did it a long time ago and I don't think she is poor. The boy bands are marketed for the girls and do raunchy routines
It is how the pop business works.
Keith

Subject: RE: Miley Cyrus
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 28 Aug 13 - 04:37 AM

It looks no more ludicrous than any of the other girl singers/groups who use sex to sell music. Bit of a sell-out in my view but, what the heck, I find her music quite listenable and the display certainly does not offend me.

As to the link to grooming children, all I can say is WTF??? OK, children need protecting, but from who and what? I was sickened to see this article about an innocent person being suspected of child abuse because of attitudes like our local panic monger. Scream first ask questions later (if at all) seems to be prevalent nowadays and that often does far more damage than anything that Ms Cyrus may do.

Just my 2 pen'urth

DtG

Subject: RE: Miley Cyrus
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 28 Aug 13 - 04:53 AM

There's an exellent article on this by Hadley Freeman in the Guardian. Miley Cyrus's twerking routine was cultural appropriation at its worst

Subject: RE: Miley Cyrus
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 28 Aug 13 - 07:50 AM

I'm not convinced by Hadley Freeman - she seems to be saying that white people must not try to dance like black people.

Subject: RE: Miley Cyrus
From: Greg F.
Date: 28 Aug 13 - 08:43 AM

Just another tempest in a piss-pot over yet another bimbo.

Who gives a shit, and why?

Subject: RE: Miley Cyrus
From: GUEST,gillymor
Date: 28 Aug 13 - 08:43 AM

The outrage seems to be directed toward MTV for manipulating the rating system to suggest this was suitable for 14 year olds. As for the artistic content it reminded me of some 3rd rate Miami kitty bar with better production values.

Subject: RE: Miley Cyrus
From: John P
Date: 28 Aug 13 - 09:20 AM

This kind of performance is, apparently, what our society wants and rewards. Most of pop music is like this. What, there's a line between overt sexual display and extra overt sexual display?

If someone wants to engage in sexual display, who cares? If you don't want to see it, your job is to not watch it. I really don't like using sex to sell music, but I dislike people trying to censor it even more. I think the whole concept of not showing things on television because of their sexual content is offensive. I am appalled that I am being asked to help protect the morals of children when I disagree with the morals and the children aren't mine. I am appalled that kids can't see sex on TV but they can see hundreds of people get violently killed every day. If we're going to practice censorship, let's at least get real about it.

Subject: RE: Miley Cyrus
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 28 Aug 13 - 09:21 AM

"Just another tempest in a piss-pot over yet another bimbo.
Who gives a shit, and why?"

Not me.

Subject: RE: Miley Cyrus
From: Bobert
Date: 28 Aug 13 - 09:48 AM

Like they say, "If you don't want to see it then change the channel"...

B~

Subject: RE: Miley Cyrus
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 28 Aug 13 - 10:14 AM

The only marginally "offensive" thing about Cyrus' dance, was that it was kind of crap. I do like to see strong female performers who can dance doing it well. I actually watched the whole video waiting for some kind of shock moment, then when it was over realised that I must have missed it! I dont' think that white women shouldn't try to dance like black women, only that white women who can't dance shouldn't try to imitate black women who can :-/

This is good and much sexier: Ciara

Subject: RE: Miley Cyrus
From: Padre
Date: 28 Aug 13 - 10:23 AM

YAWNNNNNNNN!!!

Subject: RE: Miley Cyrus
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 28 Aug 13 - 10:53 AM

Except in duration, Cyrus and Thicke go beyond anything shown in the Ndombolo video, which isn't live, isn't in real time, and doesn't simulate ultimate sex acts.)

Gibb is right: "cultural baggage." At a Roman bacchanale, people would have been disappointed, not offended. But simulating sex on live TV, with all those little nuances, is culturally taboo *all over the freaking world.* Think that fact "restrains artists"? Tough. It's still a fact. Like their millionaire "handlers," right up to the lords of MTV, the performers were *intentionally* giving the finger to a *worldwide* audience, including parents expecting a show rated for 14-year-olds. And for the Benjamins, baby, the Benjamins! The Benjamins that they're counting on the dumbest audience members to shoot their way, stat!

Except for the novel use of the football-fetish foam finger, I don't see any "art" there. It's people pretending to screw in public without falling off the stage. And in your face, as the saying goes, while the live audience cheers.

Is it wrong to be creeped out that Cyrus's parents(unlike, for example, Robin Thicke's mom) were among those cheering? (Billy Ray, a Christian fundamentalist, called his daughter's performance a "blessing," which must mean, "Her God-given energy and lack of taste and talent will make her famous and possibly super-rich!" I guess he didn't notice her cute little "devil horns.")

The act didn't showcase song or dance. It was designed to say, "We can and will do any goddamn legal thing we want in public for cash because we're already rich celebs. And you'll beg us for more!"

BTW, have no prominent feminists observed that the Thicke & Cyrus act was unarguably the most blatant and self-indulgent mass-media degradation of women into pure male sex fantasy in the history of television? (On the other hand, "The Benjamins! The Benjamins!")

Subject: RE: Miley Cyrus
From: catspaw49
Date: 28 Aug 13 - 11:09 AM

Y'all be fucked up Jack...That bitch is hot! She's so fine I'd even suck her Daddy's dick!

Now can we put this crap thread below the line or file it under "DC" for dumbass content or something?   


Spaw

Subject: RE: Miley Cyrus
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 28 Aug 13 - 11:21 AM

I detect the same dual standard in Gibb Sahib's post here

What dual standard, Richard? I said I agree that, as far as sexuality is concerned, this is not a big deal—that is, one can easily fin much worse (or better, depending on your view) "displays." But so what? Contexts vary. There are several elements of contexts that, as I said, make it very clear why there would be much buzz surrounding this. That is despite the fact that you or I might look at it and think "Pfft, whatever." Hence my asking you directly (not speaking about you in third person) if you were truly puzzled.

In regards to sex, who does it with whom (age, age gaps, genders, relationships, class, race) and when (public/private, before/after marriage, after short time/long time) and why (fun, love, cash) etc all in fact matter to people - these variables reflect how people view what might be the exact same act in every case. Whether you view that should not be how it is OK, but it sounds insincere to talk as if you don't see why *other* people would be riled.

Subject: RE: Miley Cyrus
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 28 Aug 13 - 11:48 AM

From The Onion 2008, worth a watch:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HOgj2etJs3Y

Subject: RE: Miley Cyrus
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 28 Aug 13 - 01:09 PM

> it sounds insincere to talk as if you don't see why *other* people would be riled.

Or to imply that, after all, it's "just their opinion," while one's own point of view, neither elaborated nor supported, is "obviously" so much more.

The intentional, greed-driven, narcissistic subversion of levels of public discourse and behavior (around the globe in this case and in the faces of millions) is indefensible on civilized terms.

Hint: anyone who'd like to defend it might start with Rousseau's empty claim that "Man is born free, but everywhere he is in chains." (Maybe he meant "norm-free.")

Subject: RE: Miley Cyrus
From: alanabit
Date: 28 Aug 13 - 01:13 PM

I haven't seen the clip, but I am really enjoying hearing a lot of people getting their knickers in a twist about a little girl dancing. I think everybody has got some enjoyment out of it, even if it is for vastly different reasons.

Subject: RE: Miley Cyrus
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 28 Aug 13 - 06:33 PM

I am greatly offended by the movement of this thread to BS.

It is about music and dance.

The fact that it also concerns politics and discrimination is no good reason to move it.

Folk music is about a thousand years of oppression and discrimination.

Subject: RE: Miley Cyrus
From: GUEST,gillymor
Date: 28 Aug 13 - 08:35 PM

And that piece of shit needs to be oppressed for at least a thousand more and in this instance "music and dance" = "bumping and grinding"'

Subject: RE: Miley Cyrus
From: Suzy Sock Puppet
Date: 28 Aug 13 - 09:02 PM

Here are the results of a philly.com poll:

Out of 1593 votes, 316 or 19.8% loved her performance. Out of the remaining 1277 who were offended by her performance, this is how it shakes out: 242 or 15.2 % were most offended by her outfit (including the foam finger); 500 or 31.4% by her twerking; and 535 or 33.6% (including me) by her tongue action.

That lolling tongue was grotesque and creepy, like something out of "The Exorcist." It put me off immediately. To say that her costume and hairstyle were in poor taste would be an understatement. Tacky tacky. Little Cindy Lou Who pigtails that looked more like little horns but no sexy she devil, more like possessed child. That wasn't twerking. She was up there flailing around half the time like Jim Morrison on a bad night. She was utterly graceless, unfeminine, not sexy at all. ..

Excellent commentary of Miley Cyrus' MTV Awards performance:

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/aug/26/miley-cyrus-twerking-not-wo

The last line sums it up:

"The other problem is that I'm afraid she just isn't very good at it."

I'll second that.

Subject: RE: Miley Cyrus
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 28 Aug 13 - 09:54 PM

Bloody hell !!!!

Bad enough it's all over the news and internet;

now my mrs is rabbiting on about 'twerking' !!!???


Please God, no..

spare me the thought and sight of her fat arse gyrating and thrusting in my face ........


Bollox, all it needs now is for the local community fitness centre
to tack on twerking to the 'over 50s' zumba classes ...............

Subject: RE: Miley Cyrus
From: Bobert
Date: 28 Aug 13 - 10:03 PM

Ya' know what...

When I was a kid growing up in the 50s I remember the old folks talkin', "These kids these days"...

What goes around, comes around...

Hey, I have now seen a clip of the performance and...

...I don't give a rat's ass... The P-Vine and I don't dance like that but I ain't gonna be like them old folks I grew up around...

Time moves forward... I say...

...get over it...

Plus, the kid is hotter than a three dollar pistol...

B;~)

Subject: RE: Miley Cyrus
From: GUEST,gillymor
Date: 28 Aug 13 - 10:07 PM

How long before a "Twerk Out" video on Amazon.

Subject: RE: Miley Cyrus
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 29 Aug 13 - 02:45 AM

Good Guardian piece there Suzy. As for Cyrus after hearing her anodyne ear-rot I'm firmly with Lizzie on talentless. Two number one hits? There are obviously a few too many 11 year old girls with pocket-money burning a hole in their pockets. Eh, plus ca change!! ;)

Subject: RE: Miley Cyrus
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 29 Aug 13 - 03:55 AM

Poor taste? Yes. But, even if you feel it is poor, it is to other peoples taste. So why the hatefest? There are lots of people who's tastes are not for folk music, opera, jazz, classics and all sorts of other things. But to call it crap and worse for not liking it is very intolerant. I don't particularly like the routine but I would never dream of saying it should be 'oppressed for a thousand years' and other such like.

As has been said before, don't like it? Don't watch.

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: Miley Cyrus
From: GUEST,mad jock
Date: 29 Aug 13 - 04:34 AM

its doing precisely what she wanted ....getting people talking about her ...even here on a site about Folk Music

Subject: RE: Miley Cyrus
From: GUEST,Mad Jock
Date: 29 Aug 13 - 05:05 AM

a very catchy song promoting the idea of getting screened for Bowel Cancer was just played on Radio Scotland, Perhaps she should sing it. Title.... Test you Poo.

Subject: RE: Miley Cyrus
From: GUEST,Mad Jock
Date: 29 Aug 13 - 05:05 AM

a very catchy song promoting the idea of getting screened for Bowel Cancer was just played on Radio Scotland, Perhaps she should sing it. Title.... Test you Poo.

Subject: RE: Miley Cyrus
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 29 Aug 13 - 05:39 AM

"Poor taste? Yes. But, even if you feel it is poor, it is to other peoples taste. So why the hatefest?"

I've never knowingly given Cyrus any attention before now. We were asked to share opinions so did so.

I think there are a number of things going on here, firstly it's mu$ic clearly created for and marketed AT kids/children/pre-teens, fair enough, but the reason the act attracted attention, wasn't for sexualised content per se (plenty of that about after all), but sexualised content aimed AT an audience of children - the show was at a specifically teen music event. To compound matters, there was also a whole heap of sketchy peado references with the the dancing teddy bears and having a fully clothed old bloke (he's twice her age) miming bumming a girl who's just stripped off of a teddy bear outfit.

If Cyrus wants to explore kink/fetishistic teddies, daddy and naughty little girl sex themes in her umm art, that's fine but to target it at a child audience for the sake of getting more media attention, is exploitative and plain shady.

Subject: RE: Miley Cyrus
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 29 Aug 13 - 05:49 AM

That said, I definitely see why she would enjoy subverting her public image as "wholesome role model" The onion really had that pinned.

Subject: RE: Miley Cyrus
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 29 Aug 13 - 05:57 AM

That's fine, CS. I fully understand your viewpoint and agree to a certain point. I am not sure it is geared specifically at teens and, even if it is, teens can see far worse on the internet every day. As for pre-teens, well, parents should take some responsibility here and ensure that their children are not subject to anything they don't want them to see. But, as I say, you do have a very fair point.

What I am on about though is not that but some of the the comments, above, about it being crap etc. I may not like it myself but why pee on someone elses parade? I would, and often do, get annoyed at people taking the piss oout of folk music or condemning it in the same way this is being slated by music fans on here. Would it not be fairer just to say they don't like it rather than justifying that dislike by saying it is crap?

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: Miley Cyrus
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 29 Aug 13 - 06:17 AM

OK Dave to qualify my prior comments about the only routine being "a bit crap" and white artists badly mimicking black artists - I do think that if white/mainstream culture is going to appropriate elements of black/minority culture, then those who do so should at least treat them with some degree of respect, by which I mean do it well. Otherwise it comes over as a tacky pastiche rather than genuine homage to the culture you're borrowing from - hence the "racist minstrelsy" comments Cyrus' show has attracted from some quarters.

Anyhow, it seems the more attention I pay to Cyrus, the more she seems to be annoying me - time to forget she exists again! :-D

Subject: RE: Miley Cyrus
From: Jack Campin
Date: 29 Aug 13 - 06:31 AM

Getting banned from teen/preteen shows in a blaze of publicity is a good tactic if you want to move out of that market.