Tech: Windows 10-what's happening - updates

Subject: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Joe Offer
Date: 25 Jul 15 - 04:26 PM

This is one of the many times I wish John in Kansas were still with us. I'm wondering what's going to be happening to my computer this week - and, more importantly, to the ten computers I maintain at the women's center where I do volunteer work.
I'm getting the impression that if I accepted the Windows 10 reservation invitation that popped up on my computer a couple of weeks ago, my computer has been silently downloading portions of Windows 10 on my computer.
And then, if all has gone well, my computer will open with Windows 10 when I turn it on, on Wednesday July 29. And that will be that.
But I'm afraid I will be getting all sorts of desperate phone calls Wednesday, and I'm wondering if I ought to work at the Women's Center Wednesday so I'm there to handle problems that might arise.
Anybody have any idea what's going to happen this week?
-Joe-

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 25 Jul 15 - 04:34 PM

Well I've imagined, perhaps naively, that it will sit in whatever folder you have designated as your 'Downloads' folder, until such time as you open the file and click 'install' - much the same as any other program.

But if I were you, I'd make sure to take a full system back-up before close of play on 28/7/15.

As there's a window of one year from 29/7/15 in which you can get the free upgrade, I've decided not to 'register' in advance, and to leave it six months until it's been running in the real world and, hopefully, the major crap has been sorted out.

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 25 Jul 15 - 04:39 PM

The Get Windows 10 app clearly states you can 'upgrade when you get a notification Windows 10 has been downloaded'.

To me that reads it will only install when prompted.

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Joe Offer
Date: 25 Jul 15 - 04:44 PM

Probably good advice, Backwoodsman, but I'm one of those who likes to be first to try the new stuff. Not daring enough to sign up to use Beta versions, but I like to get the new stuff when it's officially released. And so far, I haven't been burned.

Here's the Reservation Page

And a How-to page from Microsoft. It says, "You'll get a notification after July 29, 2015 once Windows 10 is downloaded to your device. Install it right away or pick a time that's good for you." Guess that means it won't install until I tell it to install.

Forbes.com reports some people are already haiving problems with the Windows 10 downloads - specifically with Nvidia graphics cards with multiple monitors (like mine, but I haven't had trouble...yet)

And PC World my usual go-to publication, tells what should happen on Wednesday...

Good luck to all of us.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 25 Jul 15 - 05:13 PM

Yep, I've got the Win 10 app on my PC. I ran the prog that checks your PC for suitability, and it told me everything was OK except my graphics adapter, which wouldn't work with 10. This PC is ONLY TEN MONTHS OLD!! WTF??

So that's why I'm waiting, to see what fixes are available (if any!). This is just my home computer, I'm fine with 8.1, and I'm informed that it will be supported until at least 2020, so there's no rush.

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 25 Jul 15 - 05:15 PM

BTW, mine's an Nvidia card. 😳

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 25 Jul 15 - 05:24 PM

Here is an excellent discussion of the operating systems and upgrading from ZDNet. An excerpt from the article that may be particularly helpful:

If you're running (real) Windows 8 or Windows 8.1 on a traditional PC

If you're running Windows 8 and you can, you should update to 8.1 anyway. And if you're running Windows 8.1 and your machine can handle it (check the compatibility guidelines), I'd recommend updating to Windows 10. In terms of third-party support, Windows 8 and 8.1 will be such a ghost town that it's well worth doing the upgrade, and doing so while the Windows 10 option is free.

That said, if your users have already gone through a painful adjustment to the Windows 8 user experience, Windows 10 will involve another adjustment. Fortunately, nearly everyone is familiar with the old Start menu interface, and Windows 10 supports it, albeit with a bit of Metro slapped on the side. Even so, very few Windows 7 and prior users will be as lost on Windows 10 as on Windows 8.

I hope this helps.

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: MoorleyMan
Date: 25 Jul 15 - 05:41 PM

I too have registered, and from the info available I also assumed that it won't install until I tell it to.
So far so good, and I think it best to stick with Windows 7 until that moment comes and I'm sure enough and have time enough to waste with another learning curve. Does that make enough sense to you techies out there?

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: BobL
Date: 26 Jul 15 - 03:30 AM

I'm still getting adjusted to Windows 7, having stuck with XP for as long as possible (not to mention a Windows 98 system for running legacy stuff). The really important question for me is: if I have insurmountable problems with Windows 10, will I be able to roll back to what I had before?

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Nick
Date: 26 Jul 15 - 06:24 AM

I've been using Windows 10 for a few weeks now (testing stuff on it) and the transition between Windows 7 and 10 I have found much easier than adapting to Windows 8.1

It is remarkably familiar and - to me - obvious to use.

And I prefer it to Windows 8.1 where I have disabled charms and corners and all sorts of rubbish that just gets in the way.

Like others above my understanding is that you get notified it is available and can then decide when you install it.

I think the only route back to Windows 7 would be a reinstall of Windows 7 and everything that goes with it so a lot of work - unless you can take an image of everything you have and ghost it back on to the machine (seems more effort than accepting the inevitable and moving to 10 :)!)

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: GUEST,Desi C
Date: 26 Jul 15 - 06:54 AM

I've received mails from AOL telling me I can download it from July 29th with info re how to do it etc. If you'd like a copy of their e.mail, it has some FAQ's just drop me a line at Desi [e-mail]

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 26 Jul 15 - 09:38 AM

I suspect the Microsoft servers will be swamped on July 29. There seems to be a plan to roll it out in stages and those who have reserved a copy early will find it downloads with updates and it will be available to install when they're ready.

Nick, I have a touch screen laptop, the environment that Windows 8 was developed for. A disconnect for Win8 was how few people paired it with touch devices. What kind of device/s are you using Win10 on, and does it retain some accommodation for touch screen computers? That is the device (with the Pro version) that I would probably opt first to test upgrade. Microsoft is pushing like programs out to users - Home version users of 7 or 8, etc., get Home version of 10. I use Win7 Ultimate on my desktop and am happy with it, so would probably delay an upgrade till near the end of the free offer period (let other people work out the bugs!).

It's clear this free upgrade is Microsoft's attempt to hold onto market share. People unhappy with Win8 flavors can get rid of it, and others will go along for the ride. In particular, they're up against the Android OS. The Win8 release will go into the dust bin along with Windows ME, Windows Vista, and illustrates something that other companies learned about shocking users with something so radically different. MicroPro Wordstar used to be a powerful word processing program, but when they released Wordstar2000 it didn't work the same and they scared off most of their users and never regained market share. Ironically, Microsoft stepped in with Office Word to take over that market.

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: GUEST,Ed
Date: 26 Jul 15 - 11:04 AM

Thank you Acme, for your link to the ZDNet piece.

Have to say that I'm somewhat dismayed at the 'Mandatory Autmatic Windows Updates'

Whilst I accept that I probably in a small minority, my main Internet connection has a fairly limited monthly allowance. That's fine, and whilst I have to keep an eye on my usage, perfectly OK for my day to day use. If however I exceed it, the charges are really heavy.

I won't possibly know if Microsoft decide to install a large update, on the final day of the month, without telling me, which could well cost me a good deal.

No thanks for now. Sticking with Windows 7.

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: GUEST, ^*^
Date: 26 Jul 15 - 12:19 PM

A problem I have recently discovered is that Windows is killing off Windows Media Center with the Win10 upgrade. It will remove it from the computer. I have lots of programs recorded using WMC because I have a receiver in my computer.

The WMC files don't play nicely with others - they can't be viewed in another program. I am going to have to slowly convert these files and burn them to DVD (the WMC program will do this). Some things I can jettison, but the ones I want to keep will need conversion. I want to continue using my computer as a DVR, so am looking into other software that will do what MWC did - provide a program directory and allow me to record. Has anyone else explored this situation? Once you upgrade to Win10, your Windows Media Center is toast. And as of a few days ago, to viewing schedule guide will not update. There is a source for $25 a year - Schedules Direct apparently will merge with WMC (there is a seven day free trial in which to test this out). I would like to eventually upgrade to Win10, so I need another answer before then. KODI is apparently software from the XBOX platform that will do some of this. Are there any users here?

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: GUEST, ^*^
Date: 26 Jul 15 - 12:23 PM

Windows Media Center is Dead. Here are the best alternatives.

Top Alternatives for WMC.

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: artbrooks
Date: 26 Jul 15 - 12:57 PM

You may want to check out this article on WMC - apparently, there is a partial fix in the pipeline. PC World article

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: GUEST, ^*^
Date: 26 Jul 15 - 01:25 PM

I have a separate media player (Corel WinDVD) for BluRay and DVD, because WMC wouldn't play my BluRay movies on my computer. It is the television recording DVR part that I want to hold onto, and access to my previously recorded material. But for anyone who doesn't want to pay extra for a DVD player, there is also the open source VLC player that is quite robust - it plays things that stump QuickTime and Windows Media Player.

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 26 Jul 15 - 02:09 PM

I'm happy enough with win7, and blocked KB3035583!

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 26 Jul 15 - 03:42 PM

It keeps coming back if you delete it, so apparently you have to hide it.

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: EBarnacle
Date: 26 Jul 15 - 05:54 PM

If you don't need it, don't upgrade. They are already planning to obsolete touchscreens so that need will become moot on time for the next whiz-bang rollout.

If you have a touch screen device or Win 8 there is nothing to lose. Besides, Win 10 is supposed to let you emulate the Win 7 interface.

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: GUEST,Woodsie
Date: 27 Jul 15 - 08:35 AM

It won't be available to all on 29th July Windows 10 will first be made available to people who have been running the tech preview edition. Then it will be rolled out in stages to people who reserved it. Then anybody else with a bona fide copy of win 7, win 8 or 8.1 can download it for free if they wish. This info is from microsoft's own press release.

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Joe Offer
Date: 28 Jul 15 - 09:47 PM

So, it's been July 29 in the UK for almost three hours, and almost 12 hours in Sydney. Anybody have Windows 10 installed?

-Joe-

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 28 Jul 15 - 10:02 PM

Christmas in July, eh, Joe? ;-)

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: GUEST,#
Date: 28 Jul 15 - 10:16 PM

"So, it's been July 29 in the UK for almost three hours, and almost 12 hours in Sydney. Anybody have Windows 10 installed?"

They may not be able to access the internet :-)

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 28 Jul 15 - 11:20 PM

As I understand, my Nokia Lumia 920 phone should be due for an update to win 10 mobile version,
so that might give some idea of 'things to come'...???

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Joe Offer
Date: 28 Jul 15 - 11:24 PM

OK, I admit it....I like Windows, and I'm looking forward to Windows 10. And I'm hoping it will give new life to a bunch of Windows 7 computers I'm not quite ready to want to replace...

-Joe-

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 29 Jul 15 - 12:00 AM

I think David Pogue's review will make you happy.

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Nick
Date: 29 Jul 15 - 06:12 AM

I only noticed that in the first month you can go back to the previous version from WITHIN the software

I work for a software company and none of our x,000 customers have yet upgraded (or upgraded and reported any problems) ...

We are wondering whether we will get any calls today

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: GUEST,Woodsie
Date: 29 Jul 15 - 09:31 AM

It could be sometime before people actually get this upgrade. here's a quote directly off of microsoft's site "Once Windows 10 is available, we'll begin notifying devices that their free upgrade is available. Just open the Get Windows 10 app to schedule your upgrade. Note: Some notifications will go out as soon as Windows 10 is available; others may go out in the weeks or months following" lots of hot air and hype ...

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 29 Jul 15 - 11:06 AM

As far as I can see my modem is working hard at downloading something and has been all day. But west of Ireland broadband being what it is it may well be a week before the 3GB is fully downloaded.

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 29 Jul 15 - 11:15 AM

The reviews I have seen so far have been mostly good. The Guardian went as far as saying this version is the best yet

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Nick
Date: 29 Jul 15 - 12:02 PM

My experience has been very positive so far but there are various things I haven't tried yet.

I use Reaper for music recording and photoshop with photos and haven't tried either yet as I have only used it at work. So we'll see.

And whether my ancient printers and scanners (which I use occasionally) still work

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: gnu
Date: 29 Jul 15 - 04:20 PM

Yeah, I was wondering about that as well, Nick. I have an HP 3180C printer and I kinda figure it will be OK but ???.

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Nick
Date: 29 Jul 15 - 04:34 PM

Well one down...

My wife's new laptop has done the transition from Windows 8.1 (which neither of us were keen on) to Windows 10 as it was available when I turned it on this evening. Took about 1/2 hour in all wile I watched a programme on Tv and it works fine.
*Old version of Office (2000) that is on it works fine.
*Two profiles on machine both transferred no problem
*Desktops have exactly the same icons they had before and backgrounds!
*Teamviewer works between machines
*Network in house works and all machines can still see each other
*No settings or fiddling with internet or anything - it justs works
*Chrome opens and favourites etc all there
*Passwords remembered etc for Yahoo mail etc
*No problem with wireless
*Boots quickly and shuts quickly
*My wife has never seen Windows 10 before and just got on and used the bits she needed as normal with no goggling or messing about
*Sound works

Haven't looked into Cortana or such because no real need yet.

Very painless and so far minimal disruption. And NOTHING like the hassle when she/we moved from Windows 7 to Windows 8.1

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: gnu
Date: 29 Jul 15 - 05:00 PM

Sounds good, Nick. I am downloading on my laptop now. I am looking forward to taking it for a spin.

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 29 Jul 15 - 05:32 PM

Upgrade was completely painless and so far nothing strange.

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: GUEST,#
Date: 29 Jul 15 - 06:45 PM

I'm glad it worked out for all of you. Good news.

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: michaelr
Date: 29 Jul 15 - 07:36 PM

So... I'm still on XP and paranoid enough about Windows' many crap iterations that I haven't installed 7 yet. Will it be possible, if all this initial jubilation about 10 turns out to be justified, to upgrade my system for free?

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: gnu
Date: 29 Jul 15 - 09:22 PM

So... where is my choice of "shutdown"? Start menu my arse. Am I missing something here??? I am a cranky old man and this pissed me off so much that I just shut down the laptop "as usual" and I'll explore it tomorrow.

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Don Firth
Date: 29 Jul 15 - 10:50 PM

My 17" Asus laptop is not only my work computer, it is my goofin' off computer as well. Put together—custom assembled—by a local computer shop. After chatting with a friend of mine who works for Mickeysoft (she didn't badmouth Windows 8, but it was obvious that she wasn't very enthusiastic about it), I had the shop load the computer with Windows 7.

Somewhere along the line, I lost sound on the computer, so I can't listen to sound files or get audio on things like YouTube videos, and pop-up windows keep telling me I need Adobe FlashPlayer (which I thought I had).   About a dozen times I've tried to download it and somewhere in the process it all goes pear-shaped and I have to reboot. Damn! I'm about to call Heath of GeekServ to come out and give my computer a dope-slap or whatever magic he usually works (but it costs and arm and a leg).

Then this morning, the Windows logo appeared on my taskbar, inviting me to "Get Windows 10."

I am reading this thread with great interest, and checking other things about Windows 10 on various internet sites. Sounds good so far….

But I'm still feeling very leery….

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: GUEST, ^*^
Date: 30 Jul 15 - 12:38 AM

The order is in for Windows 10 for my laptop. I'll see what it looks like, but will probably leave the Win7 Pro in place on the desktop at least for the time being.

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Joe Offer
Date: 30 Jul 15 - 01:04 AM

Well, we have one employee who absolutely refuses to change from Win 7 to Win 10. I'm not going to force her, at least as long as she can keep going on Win 7 without complaining to me.
-Joe-

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 30 Jul 15 - 04:09 AM

Apologies if this seems like a daft question, but how did you know when you had the download (or it was available)?

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 30 Jul 15 - 04:39 AM

Open the Windows 10 app and it will tell you.

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 30 Jul 15 - 06:34 AM

OK, thanks Peter.

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 30 Jul 15 - 06:38 AM

It's the same app you used to reserve the upgrade. It will either show you the download is in progress or prompt you to go ahead with the upgrade (or delay it).

By now I have upgraded an older Dell inspiron laptop from Windows 7 to 10. Went as smooth as the newer computer.

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Nick
Date: 30 Jul 15 - 06:41 AM

Shut down -
Start - Power - Shut down

Well a colleague at work upgraded last night and his machine then had problems. BUT - he is a very geeky guy and goodness knows what his machine contains. It did work but just need more work and may have something in start up that was stopping it

Your problem with moving from Win XP to Windows 10 is probably not the freeness of it (you can just download the image and install) but rather whether the machine is of a high enugh spec and has sufficient memory. A lot of machines with XP are limited to 512mb RAM and I think that would be insufficient. As you can't UPGRADE from XP but need to reinstall you would need to make sure you backed up everything and re-installed all your programs etc

I bought a new laptop for my wife recently (actually a refurbed one) for £167 so perhaps it is time for a new one and leave the old stuff on XP

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: GUEST,Woodsie
Date: 30 Jul 15 - 07:09 AM

There s an option to revert to your previous OS if you don't like Win 10 that option is available for one month only

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Nick
Date: 30 Jul 15 - 07:36 AM

One of my machines has failed twice in downloading the Windows 10 update. I have downloaded and installed all the 'old' windows 7 updates as I wonder whether it needs to be up to date first? Who knows.

If you look in Control Panel - Windows Update - Update History it should tell you if it has yet tried (and perhaps failed) to do the Windows 10 upgrade. It looks as though it first started trying to download it on 28/7/15.

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Don Firth
Date: 30 Jul 15 - 01:40 PM

This morning when I turned on my computer, the Windows logo on my taskbar with its invitation to "Get Windows 10" is no longer there.

Wha's happenin'?

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: BrooklynJay
Date: 30 Jul 15 - 03:17 PM

Same here. This happened to me a few days back. I even looked where the "hidden icons" lurk (and where I had been consigning the notification) and found it wasn't there, either.


Jay

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 30 Jul 15 - 03:31 PM

Am I wrong to think the app was to reserve the upgrade before its release and it has now disappeared when it wasn't used prior to the roll out?

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: gnu
Date: 30 Jul 15 - 04:29 PM

Here's what's happening with MY rollout... my laptop is fucked. More details as they become available. If you wanna go for it, do a full backup and create restore points. I didn't because I don't keep any files on mine BUT, it may looks like I will lose my security software and I just pray that I can reinstall it without too many problems. We'll see. Fuck I hate M$.

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: gnu
Date: 30 Jul 15 - 05:21 PM

I just took a bunch of pictures (dunno how they will turn out as taking pics of a monitor with a camera sometimes turns out poorly) but I will post them at FB Mudcat when I get a chance. Seems odd to me that all these can be navigated but "Your PC did not start properly... ". Leads to SO many other screens and options. ???? I mean, if it didn't start, how can this be?

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: artbrooks
Date: 31 Jul 15 - 12:09 PM

New PC World articles:

How to Install Win 10 (focus seems to be on how to do it if you don't want to wait for MS to get around to you)

Who Should/Shouldn't Upgrade to Win 10 (includes some info for XP and Vista users)

There is absolutely no hope for Gnu.

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 31 Jul 15 - 01:35 PM

So, two days in, I still think it's fine. Ofcourse there are a few teething issues, Windows now seems unable to find files on my (Nikon) camera (although I can transfer the lot of them via Nikon ViewNX-i) which is a major inconvenience if I want to lift one or two images for immediate use.

And there's the Photos app. Really, what were they thinking? I have about 12-15000 photos on my computer, Photos picks out a few hundred randomly and arranges them in albums by date and there's nothing you can do to change anything about it it. I can't determine the underlying thought, if ever there was one, and find the whole app, that Microsoft sets as default if you let them, completely useless.

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: gnu
Date: 31 Jul 15 - 03:48 PM

"There is absolutely no hope for Gnu." Was there ever?

I have been advised by my top geek... reset to factory condition.

Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu**!

BTW... my question in the WIN community forum has not been answered.

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Don Firth
Date: 31 Jul 15 - 03:56 PM

Well . . . I seem to be galumphing along okay with Windows 7, so as they say, "If it works, don't fix it!"

I don't want my computer turning into Hal 9000 and locking me out of the ship, so unless I hear of some compelling reason to shift to Windows 10, for the time being at least, I think I'll leave things as they are.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: gnu
Date: 31 Jul 15 - 07:24 PM

Six hours into the reset and I am at update 65 of 165... there's one I decided to wait on because it's a big bugger. BTW, I have high speed cable and an Intel Core I5. HP laptop.

Wait for the bug fixes before you jump. I figured I would be okay because I have no personal files on the laptop. It's just for internUt weather reports and such when the power goes out and for watching You Tube vids on my big scream TV. Thank goodness!

It installed Norton so I'll have to mess with that bullshit tomorrow and hope my ESET and Malwarebytes will reinstall without... oh shit, who am I kidding?

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Nick
Date: 31 Jul 15 - 08:19 PM

I'm guessing that I am one of the majority of the millions of folk who have done this with little hassle.

From my end on two very different machines -

* a recently bought windows 8.1 laptop
* a (quite full 80% of a 1tb drive) windows7 machine with all my important stuff on and MANY programs

They both just work

Audio via M-audio works
All my recording stuff works

I have not had to reinstall or fix anything

I think that (from a software point of view and deployment of millions of downloads with almost nil support via people - has anyone phoned microsoft?) it is an astouding piece of delivery of development

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: EBarnacle
Date: 31 Jul 15 - 11:22 PM

re: Phoning Microsoft forget about the official lines. Once I had a problem [many years ago] that would not wait. I called information for the office number and got it. When I got through, the person who picked it up said "How did you get this number?" I told them and they took care of me right away.
This may still work.

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Bill D
Date: 01 Aug 15 - 11:12 AM

FYI

Some of the details of what M$ has set as defaults in Win10 (from a post in alt.comp.freeware)

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 01 Aug 15 - 03:01 PM

You DO need to go through settings and disallow them to harvest all sort of stuff about what you do on your machine in aid of their targeted advertising program. As well as the rights they assume using files stored on One Drive etc. Quite a lot of it actually. The same holds true for Google, Facebook and many other sites and software providers.

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: gnu
Date: 01 Aug 15 - 05:00 PM

She's operational except for blowing out Norton and TRYING to reinstall ESET and Malwarebytes without any problems. HAHAHAHA! Yeah, right. Fuck M$.

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 01 Aug 15 - 07:02 PM

If you automate the installation it will set their new "Edge" browser as default browser and Bing as the default search. You can change those, but with a few steps and hunting. If you customize the installation you can choose those things during the install.

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Bill D
Date: 01 Aug 15 - 11:08 PM

Microsoft has automated 'herding sheeple' with an automated Border Collie.... the few sheeple that get away by customizing installation will still be tracked and harassed.

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: gnu
Date: 02 Aug 15 - 05:15 PM

Hahahahaa!

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: GUEST,Joe G
Date: 02 Aug 15 - 05:25 PM

I installed yesterday and all was well but this morning it takes ages to boot into my profile and the comes up with a critical error as start menu, task bar and cortana won't load. Also my second user profile has gone. My advice would be to wait a while I wish I had!

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 02 Aug 15 - 05:36 PM

Cortana will be the first thing I disable.

Tried it for about 5 minutes on my windows mobile phone before I got too annoyed with her...

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 03 Aug 15 - 06:00 AM

By all accounts Cortana is by and large a data gathering exercise and I'd disable her for that reason alone. Microsoft does not need to know how I write, what my interests are etc just to send me targeted advertising. I really dislike the whole internet turning into a marketing environment and I am blocking all of it as much as I can.

But that said, Cortana is not enabled in Ireland so we don't get to worry about that yet.

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Bill D
Date: 03 Aug 15 - 11:12 AM

The image I posted back there was shared by a very well-respected computer expert. He has since added these comments as part of a discussion with a doubter: single > are from the doubter he is debating. double >> are repeat quotes from the expert who is trying to warn people. *I* still have a year to think about it, and I have a Win XP machine that will be retired sometime this year, and 2 Win 7 Professional machines (one brand new) that I seem to have control over. I rather expect that I will survive without M$ 'enhanced' updates... if not, I will take them offline and switch to Linux.
===================================================================
(This first remark follows the image that I, Bill D, linked to)


IMHO, it is scary what people not only accept, but actually *embrace*
when sth. is marketed as shiny-new / must-have / limited time free
update / afterwards always free /...

Only Enterprise edition *seems* to offer a reasonable level of privacy
and control of update selection. Time will show, if it really does...
The other editions are Big Bother at full scale in standard setup, and
Big Bother standing foot-in-door even when configured most restricted.

Not that Android (e.g.) is noticeably better, though... :-(

----------------[then follows the debate]

>> IMHO, it is scary what people not only accept, but actually *embrace*
[...]
> Well it's pretty obvious that most of those highlighted T&C's relate to
> Cortana.

Forced Updates (not only security-wise, but also unknown functionality),
forced re-enabling of switched-off settings, telemetry, monitoring and
optional access_to /upload_of private files and data,... - That's not
"just Cortana". :-(

Win10 Enterprise SA per-user LTSB would probably be the edition, that
could be worth a look for privacy-concerned home users. But since it
only is sold through business channels, MSDN or Technet ("Platforms"
has more-the-less been canceled, though), it isn't too easy to come
by for the average user. And it ain't cheep in small quantities, since
it requires an /additional/ "normal" base license of Win7 or later.

> There was a lot of fuss here about Windows Search which is now a
> component of Cortana. Time will tell whether Cortana will be successful but
> I can only speak with any authority about Windows Search. For me spidering
> all my files and emails has been a godsend.

I don't need to /search/ for my files. Although I have several TByte of
programs and data, I simply /access/ them. Well-structured filing system
and descriptive folder and file names aren't that hard to maintain.
/When/ for once I do search, then inside one or very few subfolder(s).
No need for indexing. If deemed necessary, folders get additional
Info-files. And that's it. More important than search is quick filtering
inside large folders, i.e. reducing the files shown while typing a filter
condition. - Something, that decent file managers have been providing
for years...
----------------------

> Forced security updates is a good thing.

No, it is not. MS (and most other software vendors) just designed the update
process in a way, that any alternative to forced automatism *seems* far too
complicated and time-consuming for average users. The information that is
delivered with most updates is laughable; the necessity to follow a link
for each KB article separately - about not only details, but even the most
general information - is ridiculous.

MS disabled whole businesses (let alone millions of home PC's) by sending
out broken updates in past. Apart from that: The day someone manages to
intercept the update process and sends malicious code along it, the world
will notice the idiocy of unattended automatic updates...

> I've yet to use Windows 10 in anger so I'll see what else is really
> forced upon me.

Question is, *why* MS is so persistent in emphasizing, that even with
disabled auto-update for new features and additional apps, those updates
will be rolled-out to Win10Pro and standard Win10Enterprise users after
8 months, with /no/ chance for opt-out?! From a marketing POV, such a
statement is a general trade-off for acceptance. It only makes sense,
when the potential future trade-off will be even bigger. (Create facts,
while people still are eager to jump on the shiny-new train.)

> There's always shovel loads of FUD every time there's a new release
> of Windows.

There have been great technical improvements "under the hood" in past
and quite a few debatable design decisions, as well. But I really can't
imagine, what got into MS, to create the privacy and security disaster
Win10. (All editions except probably Enterprise LTSB.) I guess, it will
be (commercially) successful, anyways. - Although companies ought to
(probably will) be really reluctant before incorporating it.

But, IMHO, an independent evaluation of the code base and the data
acquisition scope/amount surely seems to be in order. If the US gov
isn't concerned, maybe the EU will be. In the past, the NT core was
considered en route to mathematical proof for important aspects of
security. Since WinXP, such considerations don't seem to matter even
a bit, anymore... :-(

> Turning on the anti-virus seems like a good idea to me.

If I turn off AV, I do it for good reason. If a multi-day calculation
breaks on a stand-alone workstation (= no Internet), just because MS
seems it appropriate to turn on an interfering process by some internal
timer event, they won't get easily on friendly terms with me ever again!
There *might* be some reasoning pro "forced security" on Home editions.
With Pro and Enterprise, any decision of sysadmins (or authorized
power users) *has* to be respected!

> Windows always has had extensive monitoring. Developers need feedback.
> Don't feedback, don't get stuff fixed. I don't believe it's a ruse. It's
> necessary.

*I* decide, what information leaves my PC. Any other approach is
unacceptable. Besides, the scope of the data acquisition rights that
MS demands in conjunction with usage of Win10 exceeds crash dumps and
the like, by far. Btw., sending crash dumps /can/ be disabled for
Win10 Home and Pro; sending "diagnostic and usage data" (whatever
that means), however, is always switched-on on these systems. Maybe,
communication data is far more interesting than crash reports...

>> Win10 Enterprise SA per-user LTSB would probably be the edition, that
>> could be worth a look for privacy-concerned home users. But since it
>> only is sold through business channels, MSDN or Technet ("Platforms"
>> has more-the-less been canceled, though), it isn't too easy to come
>> by for the average user. And it ain't cheep in small quantities, since
>> it requires an /additional/ "normal" base license of Win7 or later.
>
> Most people don't have time or the skills to make any kind of informed
> judgment about any of this stuff, and none of us a significant amount of
> it.

Informed decisions can be based on recommendations. Therefore, /some/
people could suggest an appropriate edition and useful settings. Other
people could create scripts for automatically incorporating community-
approved sets of settings (like Black Vipers service managing scripts).
But how can this work, when the only suitable edition is practically
unavailable (and much too expensive) for the majority of all users?

> The bottom line is. Do you trust Microsoft. If you don't. Don't use
> their OS.

No. The bottom line is: Don't accept bad decisions. Complain, criticize.
If enough do it, MS will adjust. (As it did in past.) DOC / EU or other
governmental departments may interfere. (As they did in past, as well.)
Make sure to create a climate, where it doesn't really matter, how much
you trust MS or any other firm (or their employees). Software has to be
transparent about what it does and why. And software companies have to
issue self-committing declarations pro privacy of their users, that are
/enforceable/ and linked to /severe/ penalties.

>> I don't need to /search/ for my files. Although I have several TByte of
>> programs and data, I simply /access/ them. Well-structured filing system
>> and descriptive folder and file names aren't that hard to maintain.
>> /When/ for once I do search, then inside one or very few subfolder(s).
>> No need for indexing. If deemed necessary, folders get additional
>> Info-files. And that's it. More important than search is quick filtering
>> inside large folders, i.e. reducing the files shown while typing a filter
>> condition. - Something, that decent file managers have been providing
>> for years...
>
> Yeah, I used to try and do that, then I realised the power of indexing, and
> my life just got easier

Organizing data is no more time-consuming than dumping it. Organizing
and/or managing dumps of data, OTOH, is.
-------------------------------

>> the only suitable edition [ Win10 Enterprise SA per-user LTSB] is
>> practically unavailable (and much too expensive) for the majority of
>> all users?
>
> I think you are jumping the gun here. It always takes six months for little
> bits of freeware to arrive on the scene to fix whatever MS has missed out
> of the latest version. It's always been that way. The fixes always arrive.
> Why do you think the sky is going to fall this time.

The problem is routed in the licensing terms and the implied reasoning
behind creating such terms. It is one thing to correct a bad/unwanted
design decision by a freeware tool. It is a whole 'nother matter working
against an OS, which is /meant/ to violate your privacy and denies even
sysadmins the right to configure major security and privacy aspects
without jumping through hoops. (Which may - consistent with the licensing
terms - closed or replaced by a backdoor by an automated update just the
other day.)

As Android is to strictly be avoided in businesses on grounds of privacy
and security concerns, Win10 in most editions is now, as well. Because
of the immense market share of Windows on Desktop PC's and workstations,
most companies (and government agencies, NGO's,...) can not choose to
avoid Windows OS on near future. Therefore, MS new concept of Windows
as a service - combined with the new licensing - becomes, IMHO, a clear
matter of antitrust investigations and most likely requires prosecution.

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: GUEST,Joe G
Date: 03 Aug 15 - 05:51 PM

My problem was caused by my installing Avast Free AV - apparently it conflicts with Windows Defender which is now an AV programme - though not sure how good it is! I did a system restore and it is working ok now

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Aug 15 - 05:55 PM

I installed it today and am very happy with it, everything works like a charm and the text looks sharper and the colours brighter. No complaints (yet) from this cybernaut.

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Aug 15 - 05:58 PM

I forgot to mention that it makes my computer faster too.....what's not to like?

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Bill D
Date: 04 Aug 15 - 06:05 PM

We shall see what's not to like, perhaps. Did you bother to read my C&P from the guy who has worries?

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: GUEST,Woodsie
Date: 05 Aug 15 - 08:21 AM

It will make things faster, sure but so will any OS when first installed. The biggest problem is that it turns folders into "read only" and this can't always be changed, even using the command prompt/attribute etc. It has made my Windows.old folder read only! So I can't roll back to Windows 7 as promised by microsoft. I had one of their engineers take remote control of my machine for over an hour this morningand he couldn't fathom it out! He said they were inundated with calls about this! He has escalated te problem to the "next tier" and I have an appointment for a super tech to try again on Friday.
A google search shoes that this problem is widespread.Other than this stuff the OS looks OK and I'm sure it will be when the problems are ironed out Ha ha!

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 05 Aug 15 - 08:47 AM

After my catastrophic fatal hard drive crash of a month ago,
I bought a cheap bargain desktop preloaded with win 8.1 with a view to update to win 10.

I immediately disliked win 8.1, but after disabling much of the bloatware
and making it look as much like XP / win 7 as possible...

I think I'm actually starting to warm to 8.1 and now feel more reservations about a too hasty 'upgrade' to win 10 ???

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 05 Aug 15 - 09:06 AM

I am in the same sort of situation, my XP computer died last february and I had to replace it with a Win 8.1 one. I had just gotten used to it, more or less. I went with the upgrade and don't really regret it, not yet anyway. I like the look and the menus of Win 10 better than those in 8.1 and while there's a certain getting used to needed, I haven't encountered any problems. I did do heavy alterations to the default (privacy) settings the new Windows came with but that is par for the course with any major software these days.

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Bill D
Date: 06 Aug 15 - 12:02 PM

Not that anyone will bother, but here's another warning:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/08/06/microsoft_vacates_moral_high_ground_for_the_data_slurpers_cesspit/

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 06 Aug 15 - 12:21 PM

Last month's hard drive calamity gave me the kick up the arse to start playing with linux
as soon as I installed a new hard drive on the old machine [AV Linux]

I then bought 2 identical cheap Win 8.1 desktops.

One for secure online shopping and passworded personal finance stuff..

the other for mucking about on dodgy music and sordid titillation websites like mudcat and xhamster
[the vintage nudey stag movies are absolutely brilliant - but one site is slightly more folk oriented 😜]...

Still trying to decide which new PC is going to be the Win 10 tryout box ????

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 06 Aug 15 - 01:24 PM

A bit of thread-drift here,Mobutu is anyone else having problems with installing Win 8.1 updates? I run updates manually, not automatically, but it takes three or four attempts to get them to stick. Is it just me?

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 06 Aug 15 - 01:26 PM

Mobutu? WTF? Wasn't he an African leader of some sort?

BUT!!

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 06 Aug 15 - 07:43 PM

I've got a Windows XP computer I upgraded to Windows 7. Didn't like the sound of Windows 8. I'm not sure if I should try getting it to run Windows 10, which it likely could.

It'd be much simpler if they just improved the old system to remove the bugs and loopholes with as few changes as possible, especially the cosmetic ones.

I could understand if it was a matter of cynically making us buy new versions, but when they allow free upgrades it seems a bit pointless, change for the sale of change.

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: GUEST, ^*^
Date: 07 Aug 15 - 09:54 AM

Good article at that link, Bill D. Thanks.

McGrath, Microsoft is trying to undo the damage that Windows 8 and 8.1 did to their market share. And while they're at it, to get everyone to compute in The Cloud. Even in Windows 8.1 it was difficult to make the computer use your local account, it wanted you to sign in and use a Hotmail or Outlook account and upload your data.

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: gnu
Date: 09 Aug 15 - 07:20 PM

Still haven't tried to reinstall my security software on my laptop... lazy and still pissed off (and it's not a big deal). Talked to a buddy today who upgraded to W10 and he is furious! I told him he can go back to W7 within 30 days and he said 'first thing tomorrow'. He's got a bunch of software that W10 doesn't support but tells him he can 'upgrade' that software for X $ each.

Bottom line IMO... wait for at least six months and read up. I wish I had done so.

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: EBarnacle
Date: 10 Aug 15 - 09:54 AM

Lady Hillary and I have about 8 working computers between us. One is Win 8.1 which we will check out once we remove the password [Not as simple as it sounds as it's on a netbook], one is a Vista laptop and the rest are various permutations of Win 7. Three of the Win 7s are formerly XP machines.
In truth, we have had no problems with any of them except getting the password off. I suspect that the 8.1 machine will also be just fine. If the machines are running well, I do not believe we will migrate.
As I have said elsewhere 10 and 8 are for low capacity touch screen devices. As none of our machines meet this definition, why bother?
I happened to be at our local Office Depot and noted how cheap [in every sense] the new tablets and notebooks are in the store. This may be because everything has been externalized.

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 10 Aug 15 - 11:43 AM

I'm just setting up a brand new out the box cheap bargain Lenovo win 8.1 desktop.
Near the end of the set up, a screen stated I can now auto upgrade immediately to win 10.

Why not, I'm prepared to take the risk...

... and it makes sense to do it on a clean previously unused PC ...???

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Bill D
Date: 10 Aug 15 - 12:24 PM

One more article about privacy and the "benefits" of not having any...

ya' gotta read carefully

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 10 Aug 15 - 12:34 PM

It's the Lenovo E50 preloaded with Win 8.1 with Bing [Build 9600]

£119 for a reasonable quality budget PC,
including fair quality USB mouse & keyboard.

[damn good bargain; bought two -
but - Ebuyer is the shitest online shop with the worst customer service I've ever encountered... I'll never buy from them again...]

Lenovo has loaded a "One Key Recovery", so providing it works - that should be the safety net
to roll back to factory reset
if for any reason I can't stand win 10...

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 10 Aug 15 - 02:55 PM

just finished upgrade to win 10.

time to take a break to eat a meal

When I get back first thing I'll do is install trial demo of Revo Uninstaller
to get rid of McAfee and other unwanted crap on this new PC....

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Nick
Date: 10 Aug 15 - 04:21 PM

"He's got a bunch of software that W10 doesn't support but tells him he can 'upgrade' that software for X $ each."

I have yet to find a program that doesn't work so that's quite a different experience to mine. A quick look suggests I have well in excess of 250 programs installed and I have yet to find one that doesn't work - at random I just tried musescore, ableton live 8, dreamweaver cs3, an alternative version of Reaper and Paint Shop Pro 6. I haven't opened any of those since upgrading and they all work. Reaper which I record with via an M-Audio M-Track thing works fine. Teamviewer which I use a lot works fine and no hassle with favourites etc moving.
On this machine I don't use any 16 bit programs and have an old Xp machine if I need to

No apologist for Microsoft but have just found it all very easy and just carrying on with stuff as normal

Office 2000 is supposed to not work on Windows 8 and 10 but it does even from a clean install

Perhaps I'm lucky on the two machines I have (one old one newish) as I have colleagues at work who have had issues, but so far so good and I see no reason to go back.

I will, however, continue to manually tweak a lot of the privacy options as I am more blase sometimes than I probably should be.

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 10 Aug 15 - 04:57 PM

Btw... I got through the entire process refusing to enter a microsoft account whenever prompted and nagged to log into one.

I don't have one, don't want one, and can't be arsed making up a fake one...

So let's see how long before I hit a brick wall without it...???

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: GUEST, topsie
Date: 11 Aug 15 - 11:29 AM

I saw a television advertisement for windows 10 a little while ago. The message they were putting across seemed to be that they had designed it for pre-school children.

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Sir Roger de Beverley
Date: 11 Aug 15 - 11:39 AM

I'm with Nick. So far no problems at all with win 10.

R

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 11 Aug 15 - 01:15 PM

Spent a few hours disabling / uninstalling as much unwanted kiddie apps as I could find....

and obviously making it resemble stripped down utilitarian XP / win 7 as best I can.

My opinion is it is a lot better organized and less user irritating than 8.1....

but apart from that I don't fell any wow factor advantage over win 7 ????

I really dislike the lack of update options.
and am sensibly suspicious of the possible extent of the data harvesting.

One definite fault is the amount of times it's crashed during 'Restart'
- it'll switch off then hang on the opening reboot screen.

Which necessitates pressing the off switch, then pressing it to start back on again...

Most disconcerting during driver & software updates which require a restart !!!!

I am currently googling this unacceptable problem....

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Joe Offer
Date: 11 Aug 15 - 01:58 PM

I've installed Windows 10 on 5 computers so far, with no problems on any of them. I'm hoping this will add to the life span of some of our aging Windows 7 computers.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 11 Aug 15 - 03:49 PM

Ok - Restart fails every time now.

So I did a system restore back to just after the Win 10 'upgrade',
and Resart still doesn't work.

So am now rolling back to Win 8.1

Remember - this is a brand new never been used Win 8.1 PC
and I'm a reasonably experiences and seriously cautious computer user..

Count me as not too impressed if the Win 10 'upgrade' can eff up this machine


Oh for f@cks sake - it looks like the roll back to 8.1 has froze and left hanging on the Lenovo start image !!!!????..


I'll leave the bastard for a fair time while I get a meal....

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 11 Aug 15 - 06:40 PM

So..... after the roll back to Win 8.1, "Restart" still didn't work.

Tired and frustrated, as a last resort - pressed the Lenovo OneKey recovery button..

Factory reset, and back to square one setting up a new Win 8.1 PC;
and Restart now seems to have been repaired and working again...

CONCLUSION: Two wasted days and nights, one brand new PC at risk of being buggered...

Will I risk trying Win 10 again..? maybe... perhaps once more before the free 12 months expires...
Definitely if microsoft relents and reinstores user control of updates.


I do think it's a huge improvement on Win 8.1,
but when both are stripped of the gimmick apps and reduced to minimal XP / Win 7 style appearance,
Can't say I really see any significant improvement.

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 12 Aug 15 - 02:25 AM

"One definite fault is the amount of times it's crashed during 'Restart'
- it'll switch off then hang on the opening reboot screen.

Which necessitates pressing the off switch, then pressing it to start back on again...

Most disconcerting during driver & software updates which require a restart !!!!

I am currently googling this unacceptable problem...."

It's been doing that for quite a while on my Win 8.1 machine. I'm getting updates at the rate of a dozen a day, but even though I run the updates manually, the Restart falls over. I do the bottom-pressing thing, then it tells me that it couldn't finish the updates, and it's undoing the changes it made. Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrgggghhhhhh!!

It's a PITA. I don't see how Win 10 can possibly be any worse than 8.1. I'm going to do the upgrade -assuming the download of Win 10 (which the app has been telling me is "downloading in the background" for the past ten days) ever happens.

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: EBarnacle
Date: 12 Aug 15 - 10:00 AM

If you do decide to go with Windows 10, this may help you maintain your privacy and your sanity.

http://www.electronicproducts.com/Programming/OS/How_to_opt_out_of_Windows_10_s_default_data_tracking_in_4_steps.aspx

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 12 Aug 15 - 12:13 PM

Thanks EB. Useful stuff.

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 12 Aug 15 - 12:36 PM

I've spent today taming 8.1 to my minimalist requirements.

This'll be the 3rd or 4th time I done it in recent months,
and I think I'm getting the hang of where most important options & disable tick boxes are hidden....

.. almost feeling at home now with 8.1

[but my wish list hi power audio PC will still be installed with win 7 pro, just for the sake of informed stubborness...]

Anyway, I really did want to like Win 10 and expect to give it another try before too long...
Though the restriction on user control of updates is a big discomfort, verging on deal breaker for me.

It does seem less confused than a new factory fresh install of win 8.1...
just for some reason the installation was broken on my brand new budget price Lenovo PC ???

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 14 Aug 15 - 08:59 AM

Backed up my entire PC to my external HDD last night, then installed Win 10. Went as smooth as a baby's bottom, no hiccups or problems of any sort. Didn't do the express install, I used the options to switch off as much of the tracking stuff as possible.

First impression is that, for the average Joe like me who just does a bit of surfing the web, online shopping, email, Farcebook, The Mudcat Mental Asylum, a few spreadsheets, a bit of word processing, it's not much different to Win 8.1 in terms of use. I realise that there's probably more going on under the surface that the tinfoil-hat brigade are bricking it over, but for what I imagine are the vast majority of people, it's very similar to its predecessor.

Everything seems to work fine - my internet security, Office 2013, Reaper, Audacity, Pro-Tools First, FlightRadar 24, Photoshop, everything.

Early days, but looking good, at least for the moment.

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 14 Aug 15 - 11:35 AM

It IS an easy transition.

That said, updates have been coming in and one of them messed up the Windows update facility so I had to roll back the system to its state before the update. That caused a few glitches in other programs that had updated since but that was mostly easily fixed.

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 14 Aug 15 - 11:59 AM

My 'upgrade' to win 10 on a brand new unused Lenovo PC processed very easily and seemed to work fine for nearly a day
until I noticed it was failing to restart after some software and driver updates.
Then after repeated attepmts to update some intel drivers for Win 10 after 'Lenovo Companion' stated they were necessary,
Restart failed completely, and never worked again..

That's why I rolled back to Win 8.1.
But restart still failed to work.

So resorted to lenovo onekey recovery back to factory reset.

Now it functions fine in win 8.1, but when I tried to create a recovery drive,
I get a message stating components are missing and I need the Windows 8.1 install disc,
which of course the manufacturer does not supply.....😫

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 14 Aug 15 - 12:02 PM

oh yeah.. btw.. the lesson I've learned is to try to get back in the habit of creating a manual restore point before every 'update'...

Definitely not to trust Windows to do it for me...

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 14 Aug 15 - 12:30 PM

..though having said that.. seeing as microsoft has decided to deny users any* options to control what and when updates are downloaded and installed..

how the f@ck are we supposed to know when to protect our system and create a restore point,
if all updates are just imposed & installed without warning !!!!???


[* ok - it seems there is one user option - to decide when to restart after download and install....

yes.... effin 'restart'...!!!!!!!😠 ]

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Joe Offer
Date: 17 Aug 15 - 03:05 AM

I see that Audacity works for Backwoodsman, but it's not working for me on Windows 10. Audacity can't find my audio devices. I hope they come up with a solution soon.
-Joe-

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Sir Roger de Beverley
Date: 17 Aug 15 - 04:33 AM

I, too, now have a problem with audio - the DVD reader/writer is not recognised as being present.

Any suggestions for a cure would be welcome.

R

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 17 Aug 15 - 04:50 AM

Joe, what devices are you using?

I have a Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 recording interface/mic pre-amp, and I also use a Focusrite VRM-Box monitor simulator. Both seem to be fine, they show up in the drop-down lists for input/output devices, and I've used them for listening to playback. I don't record and mix in Audacity - I use Reaper - but I do use Audacity for some editing and FX.

All seems fine for me, but I guess if you're using other devices, there may be drivers missing or some kind of conflict somewhere?

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Bill D
Date: 17 Aug 15 - 11:04 AM

Oh my....

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: TheSnail
Date: 17 Aug 15 - 03:57 PM

Sameroblem as Sir Roger. CD/DVD drive has vanished without trace. Anything I can find on the intertube implies that it will at least be visible in Device Manager but it isn't.

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: artbrooks
Date: 18 Aug 15 - 09:17 AM

My computers (desktop and laptop) still say that I'm waiting for my turn. Win Update says "Upgrade to Windows 10 (has) failed".

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Sir Roger de Beverley
Date: 18 Aug 15 - 09:35 AM

I have now reverted to windows 7 and my DVD player/burner is working fine again! I will wait a few months to see if these issues are sorted out before I try W10 again.

R

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: EBarnacle
Date: 18 Aug 15 - 09:55 AM

Your DVD player/burner did not work because the Windows Media Player does not exist in Win 10.

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: TheSnail
Date: 18 Aug 15 - 10:04 AM

Windows Media Player is alive and well on my Windows 10 PC. It jsut doesn't admit the existence of my CD/DVD drive. It's available in the Store if you haven't got it.

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 18 Aug 15 - 10:31 AM

My mobile phone is a Nokia Lumia 920

I really like the way Win 8.1 is implemented and working on this phone.
I prefer it to android [certainly now after the discovery of android stagefright bug].

I was kinda looking forward to the win 10 mobile phone upgrade...

not so sure now...???

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 18 Aug 15 - 10:38 AM

My DVD Drive works fine with Win 10.

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Bill D
Date: 18 Aug 15 - 12:27 PM

more from my newsgroup:

"Windows 10 automatically spies on your children and sends you a dossier
of their activity":

https://boingboing.net/2015/08/10/windows-10.html

"...the company faces accusations of not only failing to listen to the
feedback it asks for, but deleting from the Feedback app and forums any
suggestions it does not like.":

http://betanews.com/2015/08/15/microsoft-stands-accused-of-deleting-windows-10-insider-feedback-it-doesnt-like/

"Consumer groups have slammed Microsoft for its policy of forced updates
for Windows 10, which is hitting customers in remote locations with
massive bill shocks by blowing out their data caps.":

http://www.smh.com.au/digital-life/computers/fears-windows-10-will-blow-data-caps-20150817-gj0i98.html

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Bill D
Date: 18 Aug 15 - 12:31 PM

one follow up from a poster:

>"Windows 10 automatically spies on your children and sends you a dossier
>of their activity":
>
> https://boingboing.net/2015/08/10/windows-10.html
>
>I don't know if this is bullshit or not. I don't use Windows 10.

        I think it's true. I tried to log into my 15 year old hotmail
account, but it would not let me see my mail unless I gave them my
cell or land phone number "so they could get a voice sample". I
suppose they don't have one, because I've never used Skype and I cut
the microphone wires.
        While I was swearing at them an ad popped up telling me I
could "keep an eye on my kids" by turning on their webcam and mikes
and spying on them through Microsoft. Apparently, this "feature" is
free. They also offered to take care of my accounts and "alert me" if
I was over-spending. Also "free".

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 18 Aug 15 - 01:37 PM

Haven't seen anything like that.
When I installed, I ignored the 'Express Install' option, and switched all the tracking stuff off.

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: TheSnail
Date: 19 Aug 15 - 03:15 PM

OK, I take it back. Windows Media Player is alive but rather poorly on my PC under Windows 10.
The good news... I managed to get my DVD/CD drive working again by following Method 2 here http://www.askvg.com/optical-drives-are-not-showing-in-my-computer/.
The bad news... My external hard drive disappeared.
The good news... I closed down, unplugged the drive, restarted and plugged it back in again. It reappeared AND, it didn't push out the DVD/CD drive!!!.
Why do I get a sense of achievement by succeeding in doing something I shouldn't have had to do in the first place?

P.S. I have acquired a G: drive which seems to be my printer with zero space on it. Weird.

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: TheSnail
Date: 19 Aug 15 - 03:20 PM

...and another thing. Windows Media Player isn't available in the Store. Sorry. There is something called "Windows media Player install". It isn't clear what it does and I don't feel inclined to spend £1.89 finding out.

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Joe Offer
Date: 19 Aug 15 - 03:58 PM

I had installed Windows 10 successfully on 6 computers, so I was feeling good about the process. I had a couple hours to spare, so I decided to do two more installations. Both went south. One problem wasn't horrible - it wouldn't register Google Chrome, but I could solve that problem by using another browser or a workaround I devised.

The second problem was really bad - I tried installing Windows 10 on a compact Lenovo computer that had Windows 7. The installation went normally until I tried to log in. The screen told me to "wait a moment while we set up your apps." Then it said, "this is taking a little longer than expected, but installation will soon be complete.

When it completed, the screen kept flashing off and on, and nothing would work. I googled for a solution, and found that hundreds of people had the same problem. The only solution was to revert to the previous version of Windows. I did that, but it took a long, long time. I finished work at 11 PM.

I think I'll hold off on more installations for a couple months, hoping Microsoft comes up with solutions. All but the last two of the computers I converted work wonderfully, but I haven't upgraded any of our key employees, because losing their data would be a real problem.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 19 Aug 15 - 05:08 PM

Joe, did you run the 'check your computer is ready for Win 10' routine in the 'Get Win 10' app? It sounds like you had something, maybe a graphics card driver, that's not good for the upgrade?

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: GUEST,EBarnacle on the road
Date: 19 Aug 15 - 05:49 PM

This from one of my correspondents:

Media Player can be substituted with VLC (Free).

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 20 Aug 15 - 12:35 AM

But VLC can't run an over-the-air schedule and use the receiver in the computer like a DVR.

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: gnu
Date: 14 Sep 15 - 05:42 PM

http://isourforestreallyours.com/Isourforestreallyours/Ep_9.html

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: gnu
Date: 14 Sep 15 - 05:46 PM

Well! THAT wasn't supposed to happen. I hope an elf deletes my last post, even tho it's an important one that has nothing to do with M$.

Here... http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/windows-10-1.3223168

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: EBarnacle
Date: 03 Sep 19 - 01:07 AM

OK, w10 has had several years to get rid of its teething pains. BUT Microsoft is discontinuing support for W7 this coming January. DO NOT PANIC!!! You can still get W10 for free from Microsoft.

Just enter "download Windows 10" into your search engine and look for the link that says "Media creation tool." Follow the instructions and you should have no trouble. I've done 8 machines this week, including machines that were password protected. [I did not have the passwords.] If your machine has a valid key, enter it if you are asked for it. I only had one ask me and, after I entered it, everything rolled merrily along.

With the protected machines, use the tool to put the [universal] upgrade on a disk or thumb drive and use the boot Options on your opening menu.

Have fun. The only machines that have fought ack were two with Atom processors.

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 03 Sep 19 - 05:48 AM

Yes, I have upgraded to W10 possibly 10 times now, including our 2005 Fujitsu Esprimo laptop which shipped with Vista. I also backtracked to W7 a couple of times as well - because I could. Easiest method I found was from usb stick, then you don't need up to 4 hours by your PC.

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: EBarnacle
Date: 03 Sep 19 - 07:56 AM

Depending on the machine and the flavor of the previous system, it has taken anywhere from 90 minutes to 4 hours. The fastest was from W7 Pro using as flash drive.

The tool gives you the option of a download to either a DVD or a USB device. Personally, I like the flash drive if I am not installing directly.

The worst error I have made was not having the machine hooked to the internet while doing the upgrade. That cost me the time to revert to W7, then reinstall W10 Pro. I do like the feature that the media automatically selects the version you get for the upgrade.

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 03 Sep 19 - 10:10 AM

I'm finally using a system that CAME WITH Win 10 Pro, and that makes things easier. The upgrades from Win 7 were a little glitchy.

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 03 Sep 19 - 10:59 AM

Our Fujitsu Esprimo laptop I only upgraded to windows 10 to see if it would run on that ancient machine, which it does, although audio crackles badly. I found a Vista driver which is supposed to work with the Esprimo which was an improvement, but when we get back from our holiday I'll look for the Vista drivers disc that came in the box. Failing that, I'll reinstall Windows 7 and stick with last updates available, it only gets used on holiday so not important.

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: GUEST,SB
Date: 06 Sep 19 - 09:35 AM

The latest Win 10 update for Sep. 2019 is alerted to screw up many PCs. Apparently Cortana has been set to soak up memory and slow down machines to non-usability. Google to find the specific app. to remove.

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 06 Sep 19 - 09:50 AM

I have Cortana turned off as much as I can. It never is allowed to function in any of my searches, etc. I also have a hood over my web cam atop one of my monitors to keep it from any facial recognition activity.

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: EBarnacle
Date: 08 Sep 19 - 11:27 PM

I have discussed an annoying issue with a tech friend. Windows may ask you to sign in with a Microsoft account. To avoid this, when the screen comes up asking for personal or business, Take the machine off line and it will assign the owner name "used" for you. You can then [at the next step] plug your internet cable back in and proceed.

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 08 Sep 19 - 11:33 PM

You don't need to take it offline, but you do need to click past that and use your own logon information. That has been something with Microsoft for probably the last 15 years, and they're trying very hard to channel you into their network.

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 10 Sep 19 - 04:37 PM

The former version of Windows 10 is being replaced with stuff being rolled out now. Here's more information:

Microsoft patches two zero-days in massive September 2019 Patch Tuesday

Microsoft's September 2019 Patch Tuesday comes with 80 fixes, 17 of which are for critical bugs.

Microsoft has published today 80 security fixes across 15 products and services, as part of the company's monthly batch of security updates, known as Patch Tuesday.

Of the 80 vulnerabilities patched today, two are so-called zero-days -- security flaws that had been exploited in the wild before Microsoft released fixes.

TWO ZERO-DAYS
The two zero-days are CVE-2019-1214 and CVE-2019-1215. Both are elevation of privilege (EoP) vulnerabilities. These types of vulnerabilities are usually exploited by malware to gain the ability to run malicious code with administrator privileges on (previously) infected hosts.

The first bug, CVE-2019-1214, is an EoP in the Windows Common Log File System (CLFS) driver. The second, CVE-2019-1215, impacts the ws2ifsl.sys (Winsock) service.

As usual, Microsoft didn't reveal any details of how the two bugs were being exploited in the wild, only acknowledging a security researcher from Qihoo 360 Vulcan Team with discovering the first.

NEW RDP VULNERABILITIES
All in all, this month's Patch Tuesday is as bulky as all the Patch Tuesday releases have been in recent months, which have regularly ballooned at over 70 fixed bugs on a regular basis.

Also just like in recent months, Microsoft patched remote code execution bugs in the Remote Desktop Protocol. This month, there have been only two -- CVE-2019-1290 and CVE-2019-1291.

Both bugs were discovered by Microsoft's internal team, and unlike the BlueKeep and DejaBlue vulnerabilities disclosed in May and August, Microsoft didn't say if these two could be abused to create self-spreading wormable malware/exploits.

NON-MICROSOFT SECURITY UPDATES
Since the Microsoft Patch Tuesday is also the day when other vendors release security patches, system administrators may also want to install patches released today by Adobe and SAP.

More in-depth information on today's Patch Tuesday updates is available on Microsoft's official Security Update Guide portal. Readers can also check out the table embedded below, this Patch Tuesday report generated by ZDNet, or this one, put together by Trend Micro.

This is followed by an extensive list of vulnerabilities.

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: EBarnacle
Date: 11 Sep 19 - 07:24 AM

SRA, if you are installing for others, you don't want your secure info in the computer.

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 11 Sep 19 - 09:55 AM

I think that's a no-brainer. Aren't we discussing individuals working on their own computers? IT folks have a protocol for installing computers for other people.

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: EBarnacle
Date: 14 Sep 19 - 07:03 PM

Some upgrades have a click allowing the worker to bypass the self identification. Others don't seem to.

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 14 Sep 19 - 10:36 PM

I have two monitors, and twice in the last week I've come in after the computer was supposed to sleep and when I jostle the mouse one monitor is normal and the main one has a blue screen with a message and a QR code to link to the topic. The message beside the code says Stop Code: Faulty Hardware Corrupted Page.

It seems to need to go through and update all of my hardware drivers. I have a lot of old hardware hooked up, but I have a new keyboard and it seems to be a casualty of this shutdown, I have to unplug then replug the USB cable to get it going again. I always keep a spare keyboard handy anyway (this is a specialized typist's keyboard, not the usual cheapie that comes with the computer).

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: EBarnacle
Date: 15 Sep 19 - 10:47 PM

Try deleting and reinstalling the software for the second monitor. I don't know how you can do this.

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 17 Sep 19 - 04:52 PM

It isn't the monitor software that is the problem, the monitor is simply delivering the message.

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 17 Sep 19 - 05:03 PM

Had a frustrating problem with Windows 10 Defender over the weekend - it switched itself off and I could not enable it despite carrying out all of the suggested fixes. Eventually last night I did a check for windows updates and found that there was an update for Defender pending, but would not install. After power-up this evening I tried windows update again, this time it installed together with another Defender update and is now enabled itself again!

I had backed up all of my data intending to do a Windows 10 repair!

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 18 Sep 19 - 11:37 AM

I've typically had it set to download and tell me when installing updates so I can say yes or no myself. On this new machine I think the default is to automatically load and install, and I'll have to go set my preferences.

On another note, this note about ransomware is something to take note of. I don't see a thread dedicated to these threats (in my traced threads, at any rate). Maybe it's time for one of those.

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: DaveRo
Date: 18 Sep 19 - 12:53 PM

Stilly River Sage wrote: ... twice in the last week I've come in after the computer was supposed to sleep and when I jostle the mouse ... the main [monitor] has a blue screen with a message and a QR code to link to the topic. The message beside the code says Stop Code: Faulty Hardware Corrupted Page.

I'd guess that's a fault in the 'resume from hibernated' (S4) state. To test that you could change the power settings to only sleep (S3) for a week or two and see if it still happens.

I found some support threads about similar problems appearing with release 1903 on some makes of computer.

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 18 Sep 19 - 02:54 PM

I'll take a look - good suggestion!

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 18 Sep 19 - 03:58 PM

MY PC took about two and a half hours to instal the WIN10 update today.
Then it took a while to recognise my mobile phone when I plugged it in to download pic's.

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: EBarnacle
Date: 19 Sep 19 - 07:38 PM

Two and 1/2 hours is better than the average time I've achieved.

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 29 Sep 19 - 09:05 AM

Having had a "cyclic redundancy check" error a few times, I bought an ex Dell PC hard drive which shipped with Windows 10 Pro mostly installed. Somehow I managed to sign up to a Microsoft account and ended up with an administrator user account with the my email used as its account name. Worse was that the log in password was set as my email password. I don't want to be messing around with a log in password and the only way I could find to disable this was to cancel the Microsoft account first!!!

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 29 Sep 19 - 10:23 AM

They set it up in such a way hoping you'll sync everything to their cloud services. It takes clicking past their Microsoft stuff and setting up on the local device.

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: robomatic
Date: 29 Sep 19 - 03:23 PM

This is off-topic but related: About two years ago it was revealed that just about all Intel/PC and quite a few non-Intel/PC CPUs were subject to malware due to hardware 'flaws'. They were called "Meltdown" and "Spectre". These were addressed by software updates but I'm curious as to whether the hardware 'original sin' has been addressed in more modern CPUS. Anyone know ? or know someone who knows?

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: DaveRo
Date: 29 Sep 19 - 04:31 PM

Yes, Intel at least has modified their newer processors: link. But new variants are being discovered all the time, and are being patched in operating systems: link.

The problem with the software mitigations is that they can reduce performance, which matters a lot for big datacentres. 'Speculative execution' - the 'spec' in 'spectre' - was designed to run programs faster, and the fixes, especially the early ones, tended to negate that.

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 29 Sep 19 - 08:33 PM

I knew about that problem with the chips and this summer made a point of buying a new higher end chipset with the computer. Meaning there will be something else that comes along to exploit this newer system.

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 01 Oct 19 - 04:29 PM

I have solved the administrator user account name problem - the trick is to change from a Microsoft administrator account to a Local administrator account, then the change name option appears!!

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 17 Dec 19 - 06:35 PM

A related topic, in that if someone is familiar enough with Win 10 and updating or moving files, they might have an answer to this question:

I am using two computers with Win 10; one doesn't connect to the Internet any more but it has some of my more expensive newer versions of software (Adobe stuff is expensive). I have an older version of Adobe in the new computer (it was on a disk and wasn't tied to the other computer so I could install it.) I still want to use the software on the old computer, but this back and forth with thumb or other drives gets old.

I picked up a USB transfer cable (Radio Shack is still in business, mostly online, and has some helpful stuff in clearance and sales) and it has a fat plug on one end so it's actually seen by the computers as a drive. The embedded software is called GO!Bridge, if anyone is curious.

To disconnect it says to click out of the folder with the corner X, and use the "Safely remove hardware" feature in either computer to remove the cable. Standard remove a drive stuff.

If I simply leave the thing plugged into the old computer and new computer, will there be any harm done? Neither computer is going to view this as a boot drive, it'll be more like a DVD drive, way down the list of things to look at for startup. Or perhaps I should disconnect it from the new computer (with the approved methods above) and leave it on the old one and plug it in when I need it?

It would be nice to have the new faster Adobe software on the new computer, but I don't have that original installation disk (it's complicated - legal, but complicated) so I go back and forth between the two. To use the current CC version of Adobe I can only get it as a download and pay a monthly fee; even at academic rates it's still a financial hit. So I'll do this for the time being.

Meanwhile, a whole new version of Windows 10 was rolled out earlier this year; mine updated automatically, it wasn't exactly a new install, but it's something people should update if for some reason they haven't already. I seem to recall that the earlier version isn't going to be supported for long.

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Nick
Date: 17 Dec 19 - 07:24 PM

I had my old computer's hard drive fail so bought a new one. But subsequently bought a new hard drive for the failed machine so now have two windows 10 machines on my desk next to me. I have different stuff on both. I have three external drives (500Mb, 2tb, 200gb). One machine is on the very latest win 10 and one on the previous version.

I have a cheap and cheerful network switch (buy one for about £10 that would work plus a couple of cables) and just have a little network of the two computers and share whatever resources I want between the two. In the process they both have internet access of course. The 2tb drive is attached to the new machine but shared so that the 'old' machine (with the new drive) can access anything on it when I bother to turn it on. I also use the 'old' machine to back up some of the stuff from the new machine.

On the new machine I also have a Windows 7 Virtual Machine set up which I use as a little safety area in case there are any files I have any concerns with. I may also set up a secondary virtual machine with XP on as I have one or two legacy programs that I might want access to (a VERY old Adobe Guitar Tracks for example)

I would have thought that creating a very simple network would be an easy way to go and get rid of many of your frustrations. I can shift anything round as I choose easily and it's easy to share any resources I need. The new machine doesn't have a CD/DVD drive so I just share the one off the other machine if I need it.

I also may go back to using Teamviewer again between the machines and ipad as well so that I can access any of the machines from anywhere I might be. One of the attractions of Teamviewer is that I could run both machines from the one easily.

The monitor I have will take HDMi and VGA input so I have both computers attached to the monitor and can change the input with two presses on the front and easily switch between machines so the Teamviewer thing is not worth doing apart from the ability to remotely access the machines from anywhere I have an internet connection.

I may have misunderstood your problem!

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: EBarnacle
Date: 17 Dec 19 - 07:25 PM

SRS, depending on how long the noncommunicative computer will be left intact, you have a couple of options.
You can take the hard drive from that one and put it into an external hard drive case to be used as an auxiliary for the other computer.
You can transfer the data via thumb drive.
If you have a Windows 7 key for the one that's not happy, you can put another hard drive in that machine and use the Win 7 key with a freshly downloaded version of Win 10. That may also fix the communication problem [No guarantee, tho.]

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 17 Dec 19 - 08:46 PM

It might help if I spell out the problem. The old computer was giving me the error message Diagnostics Policy Service is not running." It happened once, I used my laptop to search on that term, and found how to set things to have it working again. A few months later, it happened again, and I found I had to do something a little different, but again in worked. The last time it offered up this Windows error message there was no way to reset it. I could have simply reinstalled the computer, but then I would lose all of the software, much of it can only be installed once (though I could beg the company, telling them it is the same computer, to get a new service key), but others I installed when I was part of a group that had company access to the software. As a retiree I can continue to use it but I can't get a new copy of it. That computer is robust, a quad core HP, but it's nine years old. So I bought a new one, installed some software from work that I can still use and other things I had older versions I already paid for. The Adobe software is the real gem in the old machine, it's the last version that was on disk that I own outright, from before they went completely to the Cloud and monthly rental of the software.

So I'm trying to streamline the work between the two, not keep loading it onto thumb drives to go back and forth. The old one, in this state, will never communicate with any network unless there is a physical connection. I can't take the hard drive out of the old machine because the software understands that it is in that computer and won't work in the new one. There are theoretical ways to trick the software into thinking it's in the same computer, but that's a lot of jumping through hoops and isn't guaranteed except to possibly mess up everything. $1600 for the new computer means I have an up-to-date system and it doesn't have the same glitches the old one did (the Windows fire wall and real-time protection on Malwarebytes could never be set to run. I had to use Zone Alarm or something like that as my firewall.)

The cable has one end that is the "drive" and the other end is the standard USB. If I'm willing to plug and unplug this cable between the two computers, I'll do it where it's easiest to reach, on the new computer (leaving the other end in the old computer). So which end should I use for plugging and unplugging, the fat drive end or the USB end - or does it matter since it's all basically one drive device?

My plan is to have a distinct upper-level folder (desktop, probably, or even a new Library) landing pad in each computer that I can easily navigate to where I can put the files I want to move back and forth, so I'm not crawling through one or the other beyond that folder.

Fussing about computers every so often is an exercise that means I do research and try new things. I suppose it's good for me. :-)

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Nick
Date: 18 Dec 19 - 09:54 AM

Here is a possible solution. I have tested it and it works. It would take less than three hours if you have the necessary things. If not it might cost you somewhere between £/$15-£/$30 depending how big your 'old' hard drive is. It would also give you considerable freedom to change things in the future.

In a nutshell. CLONE THE OLD MACHINE. DEAD easy. I don't think I have ever done a software project that was more straightforward and had no issues (apart from one minor Adobe one that didn't stop the products opening and working)

As an aside it has completely changed the way that I will back up my system in the future. Once a month I will do what I did this morning...

What you need is -

1 A downloaded free version of Macrium Reflect free
2 An empty hard drive that you are prepared to format. I have a 500gb old laptop drive that I have in a 2.5" SATA External case that can connect to the computer via USB

That's it. A couple of options (*) that may be different in your system

1 Plug in external hard drive (*or attach a blank second drive into the machine. Most machines have the option to add more than one drive)
2 Download and copy the Macrium software to the machine that you want to clone (* this maybe a problem for you. There is some info here that might work https://forum.macrium.com/26618/How-do-you-install-reflect-server-and-workstation-ver-7-without-internet)
3 Run the Macrium software
4 Choose what you want to clone. My new 1tb hard drive is partitioned into two 500gb drives and the D: drive has nothing on it so no point in copying it
5 Leave it to copy. My 500gb drive (about 160gb used as I have reinstalled stuff from scratch) took 1hr 40mins to copy to the USB external drive

Now the exciting bit, testing it...

The cloned drive will not boot from USB (Windows doesn't allow it) so what I needed to do was to take the SATA drive out of its enclosure. I then disconnected the power and data connections from one of my machine's 'normal' hard drive of the computer and instead attached the 2.5" SATA drive that contained the cloned information.

And turned the machine on. It took a bit of time to boot up.

So what have I got?

1 All the files are on the machine
2 Norton anti virus is running and up to date
3 The internet connection just worked with no configuration or anything needed
4 All drives seen fine
5 Photoshop opens happily
6 Reaper opens happily and all plug ins are in place and working
7 Chrome works with all settings
8 Everything I tried works. The one thing it asked me to repair was Adobe Creative Cloud. But it didn't stop either Photoshop or Lightroom working
9 ASIO drivers are installed and working and Reaper played back through soundcard with no configuration
10 Office works. Dropbox and OneDrive work. Mega (where I store some things) all work. You name it, it works.
11 All passwords etc worked

12 Disconnected cloned drive and put it away safely... and my intention is to overwrite it at intervals in the future if I install various new programs

Total time from start to finish (including typing this!) about 3 hours.

You would be free to run your 'new' cloned machine for as long as you want to be sure that it is 100% ok. You could then even format the old drive and use it again - if it's not knackered - but with no worry of losing your software.

As an aside your Adobe software licence allows for installation on TWO machines as long as they are not used at the same time.

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Nick
Date: 18 Dec 19 - 10:00 AM

And I used the machine all the way through the time it was doing the cloned copy (internet and local stuff) so no need to stop anything you want to do.

It was the first time I have ever tried to clone a machine. If I had known what I found out this morning I would have had a much better experience (and lost less stuff) when my hard drive died.

Off to my google calendar now to schedule in future clones which I can probably automate...

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 18 Dec 19 - 11:33 AM

I don't have the Adobe software for the newest version to load it on a second machine, or I'd have done that. I'll look into the cloning process - I had a couple of SATA enclosures (the cable plugged into the mother board, not a USB port). I'll look into that, it could free up the old computer to be reinstalled, etc. Thanks!

Meanwhile, the transfer cable cost $4.24 and was plugged in to both computers in under a minute. It'll do the job for now!

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Nick
Date: 18 Dec 19 - 12:01 PM

Always best to work round a problem than to sort it out hahaha. I realised this was a bit of a game ("you come up with a solution and I'll tell you why it won't work") and an exercise in pointlessness

I did realise you didn't have the software. Having said that, it also wouldn't have been hard to find it but that's by the way. I'm sure I'm not alone in having 5 or 6 Adobe suites (from 4.0 through 6.0 through CS2 and CS3 to CS6) of most of the products that are in common use and might even have been of help.

Good fun and I learned something which is great. And if I ever have a hard disk fail again I will be back up and running in no time. Happy xmas.

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 18 Dec 19 - 04:15 PM

Something useful about Windows 10, if the install gets stuck just switch PC off and back on again and the install will resume from where it left off!

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 18 Dec 19 - 06:43 PM

Not likely I'd ever try that Bonzo - that's a way to kill a computer faster than the time it takes to flip the switch.

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 18 Dec 19 - 09:00 PM

Today from ZDnet: So you want to keep running Windows 7? Good luck with that, small businesses

The end of Windows 7 support is weeks away. Microsoft says small businesses can pay for extended security updates just like their enterprise cousins. But my experience says they don't really want your money.

Support for Windows 7 ends in just a few weeks. After Jan. 14, 2020, Microsoft will no longer provide free security updates and bug fixes for the venerable operating system to the general public.

Those updates will be available, however, to Microsoft customers who are willing to pay for the privilege. The Windows 7 Extended Security Update (ESU) program runs for an additional three years, through January 2023, and it's been officially available since Dec. 2, 2019.

When Microsoft first announced the Windows 7 ESU program, in September 2018, the company said these updates would be available to its most valuable customers: Giant corporations and government agencies with volume licensing subscriptions and medium-sized businesses and educational institutions with Windows 10 Enterprise or Education subscriptions.

Then, in October 2019, Microsoft extended the program to businesses of all sizes. If you run a small business (even a sole proprietorship) and you want to keep using Windows 7, that should be good news. But as I learned this week, Microsoft doesn't seem particularly interested in taking your money if your business is too small.

The rest can be read by following the link above.

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Jeri
Date: 18 Dec 19 - 09:24 PM

I got the message that the version of Windows 10 I have will soon not be supported, and I should install the current version. I've tried 4 times (at a couple hours per pop), and I have something that won't let it update, so, I dunno.

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: GUEST,jag
Date: 19 Dec 19 - 10:26 AM

A side issue (that SRS may already know about) is that the Adobe License Management system of some older versions doesn't get on with that of something in the later products. Under Windows 7 I kept having to re-install CS3 and in the end put it on a different computer with none of the newer stuff. Am about to find out if that persists with Windows 10.

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 19 Dec 19 - 10:36 AM

I have CS5 on the older computer and (knock wood!) it seems to be fine. I have a version of CS 3 around here, but it does so little that I wouldn't bother installing it, and as you say, there are issues. Not a huge surprise. The company has changed a lot and merged with others over the years. (Dreamweaver, for one.)

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: GUEST,jag
Date: 19 Dec 19 - 12:01 PM

I only need a little, in fact 90% of the time I get by with Photoshop 7 on the 'main' computer. I should never have accepted the very good deal to consolidate licenses to the full CS3 suite as I then couldn't just upgrade Photoshop.

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 19 Dec 19 - 12:13 PM

Jeri, on my old computer it wasn't very good at updates, something was blocking it even when I turned off Malwarebytes, my security stuff, etc.. An option (if you have copies of all of your software) is to reinstall the computer and have a fresh version of the old version, then upgrade. But you need to backup your data and put it back when you re-install your software. That's one way to kill a weekend.

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 19 Dec 19 - 06:05 PM

Latest windows 10 is ver1909.

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 26 Dec 19 - 03:27 PM

There seems to be something that Microsoft is pushing out (to do with release 1909) but they haven't activated the contents of that download. I updated my laptop that isn't used much and the message to see what was updated shows it is still running 1903 but 1090 downloaded. One failed to install - not sure if that's the one waiting for permission to install, or something else.

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: EBarnacle
Date: 27 Dec 19 - 04:11 PM

I have been trying to install 10 on several machines that are resisting my entrance. Two of them [both W 10] are not letting me get past the passwords to do the install. Another is a version of W 8 on one of Lady Hillary's tablet.
The 10 machines are not allowing me to change the boot order, I may have to find a way to change the BIOS.

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 27 Dec 19 - 09:40 PM

When I put the SSD in my old computer (Win10) and rearranged the drives I ended up with the drive order out of place as far as what the BIOS looks for. I typically turn it on, it doesn't boot up, I turn it off with the switch, and turn it on right away and it boots, because it remembers now where the SSD is. I've tried rearranging and that didn't work. There is a lot of stuff crammed into that machine so reaching the SATA plugs on the motherboard is difficult.

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 29 Dec 19 - 06:27 AM

The power supply in my wife's pc failed yesterday, apparently they just do!!!

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 30 Dec 19 - 10:46 AM

Power supplies are as easy a thing to replace as I can think of. Buy a new one the same size for that machine, unscrew the old one and screw in the new one. When my kids were headed off to college they each got a new computer and I had them set each up and do any installation and modifications themselves before we took them to school (and truth be told, my son built his from scratch the night before we left, so I didn't have much to do with that at all). My daughter's power supply died a year or two into ownership and she announced later that she replaced the power supply herself, but had to cut the case a little to make it fit. I couldn't be more proud of her ingenuity (and the new supply had a much quieter fan, so it was win/win.)

My battery backup (UPS) has failed it's self-test and I'm realizing it is well past the time when the batteries need swapping out. I have a set that arrived late last week and have to make time and clear the space to unplug everything from the old one, take off the side of the case, replace the two batteries and let it charge for about 8 hours before re-plugging everything. The space to do the work is the complicated part, I have a lot of stuff set up in a small area.

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 10 Mar 20 - 09:24 PM

Microsoft pushed out a big update today and I had to turn the computer on and off a couple of times to finish the updates. And the rat bastards removed my old Windows 7 Microsoft games that were I think loadable into Windows 8, but after that they don't give it to you. I have, however, a version a fellow saved from Win 7 and I went into the old computer and found the files and reinstalled it. Anyone looking for those old programs (much better than the earliest games, the last good version before they added advertisements and make you pay to play) let me know and I can share it via a Box or Dropbox folder. Downloaded several years ago from Winaero.com.

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 11 Mar 20 - 11:16 AM

Is this an upgrade to ver1909 or just an update?

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 11 Mar 20 - 01:47 PM

I don't know what it was, but was comprehensive enough that it crawled the computer and removed the stuff it didn't like.

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Nick
Date: 11 Mar 20 - 02:22 PM

Info here - Windows Update 10 March 2020

Personally my machines are on 1909. But as per further up the thread if anything grim happens I will reinstate my latest clone (he said smugly). Once the latest update turns out to be ok I'll update my clone.

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 14 Mar 20 - 12:16 PM

I upgraded a work PC from Windows 7 pro to Windows 10 pro a couple of days ago. Everything went fine except that now Excel demands a Microsoft Account login, which nobody knows. Over to my boss's IT Tech!!

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 14 Mar 20 - 07:18 PM

You can skip that early in the setup process, but you have to be watching for it.

My computer has run several more updates this week, requiring a restart and then setup. My solitaire game is still in place, but it has been busy adjusting something.

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Joe G
Date: 14 Mar 20 - 07:43 PM

Yes I've had a couple of updates - not noticed anything of concern but we will see!

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 14 Mar 20 - 08:06 PM

So how long has win 8.1 got left, before it's discontinued...???

Microsoft has already made a clean fresh install from ISO,
or PC factory restore drive,
near impossible,
unless we resort to 'expert' workarounds...

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Jeri
Date: 14 Mar 20 - 08:37 PM

I tried installing it a couple times. Unsuccessfully, but the "undo" worked. The last time, it forced the upgrade, it didn't work, and couldn't undo the attempt. That computer is now dead. I had this Mac, and so that's what I'm using now.

I think I'm over Windows.

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 14 Mar 20 - 08:52 PM

This past year I set up a laptop with a fresh Win 8.1 install:
and another laptop factory reset to clean reinstall Win 8.1 from the restore partition.

In both cases win update would no longer work.
Because it required an update it self...

I think I might have explained how that was resolved
some time back in this thread...???

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: DaveRo
Date: 15 Mar 20 - 05:19 AM

My wife's Win 10 laptop (10 year old Thinkpad, was originally XP) was slowing down to the point she was constantly cursing it - and by implication me for not fixing it. It was fine when it originally upgraded itself from Win 7.

One of my options was a clean reinstall of Windows 10 from the download provided by Microsoft on the internet. That is definitely possible - I know of people who've done it recently. At the same time I could change to a Solid State Disk (SSD) - about £/$60 for 500GB which would enliven this old machine no end. You can get smaller cheaper ones.

My main concern, if I changed the hardware, was that MS would not register the updated system. So I converted my local login to a MS account because I read that might help.

I did install the SSD. It was very easy, and it goes very much faster - it starts up in 15 seconds. So I recommend that if you have an old laptop. I also bought a SATA/USB3 cable so I could plug the old disk in to recover the data. (You can also clone the old disk if you don't want to reinstall.)

I didn't reinstall Windows 10, I installed Linux - so that's off-topic. But I can go back to Windows if my wife can't live with the new setup by just replacing the disk.

The only thing I miss about Windows 10 is File History backup, which we did to a USB drive. If you don't use that, take a look at it. But don't keep your drive plugged in all the time, as Win 10 wants, to avoid ransomeware getting at it.

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 15 Mar 20 - 11:07 AM

It seems that the microsoft account nonsense can be avoided by disconnecting the internet, then windows 10 defaults to a local account in which you can choose whether or not to use a password. What I don't know is at which point during installation can the internet be disconnected because it seeks "updates" at several points during the procedure!

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 15 Mar 20 - 11:31 AM

If you replace an HDD with an SSD, they come with, or recommend, cloning software. Clone the original boot drive to the SSD and when you set it up as the boot drive the computer doesn't know the difference software-wise. But the speedy start is wonderful!

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 15 Mar 20 - 11:39 AM

My work PC has SSD and as you say is very fast to both start up and close down.

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: EBarnacle
Date: 15 Mar 20 - 12:28 PM

as anyone else noticed that the various hangups that were relatively common with Win 7 are occurring more frequently now that Win 10 is the standard?

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 15 Mar 20 - 01:20 PM

I found this command to make File Explorer open at C drive which I prefer:

c:\windows\EXPLORER.EXE /n, /e, c:\

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 24 Mar 20 - 12:33 PM

Here's a new problem (there are always problems) to keep an eye out for: https://www.zdnet.com/article/microsofts-windows-10-warning-astaroth-malware-is-back-this-time-its-even-stealthier/

Astaroth, a group that uses legitimate Windows tools to spread malware, has retooled after Microsoft drew attention to its living-off-the-land techniques last July. The group in February stepped up its activity with even stealthier methods.

Last year the Windows Defender ATP team detected a huge spike in the use of the Windows Management Instrumentation Command-line (WMIC) tool, which is built in to Windows.

Microsoft's investigation found a major spam operation spreading email with a link to a website hosting a .LNK shortcut file. If a recipient downloaded and ran the file, it would launch WMIC and several other Windows tools to download and run fileless malware in memory, below the view of traditional antivirus.

"Astaroth now completely avoids the use of WMIC and related techniques to bypass existing detections," Hardik Suri of the Microsoft Defender ATP Research Team said in a new update.

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 08 May 20 - 11:20 AM

A friend of mine recently upgraded his computer from Win7 (the last really logical solid NT-based Windows release, IMHO) to Win10 and is now trying to figure out how to find and do things. I wish him well.

My question to those of you who have been using it for a while (as I have, but that doesn't mean I studied every feature of it) is setting up a full computer backup. I appear to have the choice of going into the still extant but hidden Control Panel and selecting (Backup and Restore - Windows 7) as illustrated in an article on C|Net, or in using the Backup and Restore in Windows 10 (https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/17143).

The logical approach would be to use the Windows 10 backup as being most in tune with the OS, but the NT system was so solid that I'm wondering if any of you have compared the two systems and have conclusions you'd like to share? With questions like this I really miss JohnInKansas (whose name I came across when searching a tech question yesterday).

My old Win10 computer was backed up using the Win7 system illustrated in the C|Net article. This new Win10 is many updates, service packs, and versions out from that first Win10, hence the question.

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 08 May 20 - 11:49 AM

You just click on the start button and start typing Control Panel and by the time you've typed control, a box will appear on the bottom left of the screen with Control Panel app at the top. Click on that and you're there!!

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 08 May 20 - 11:59 AM

That wasn't a problem, it was always easy to find (even though they tucked it out of sight) and I still use it for some things because I never remember what they call the new panel that used to be called Control Panel. :) How do you backup your computer if you're using Win10, Bonzo?

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 08 May 20 - 12:20 PM

Same procedure, hit start button and type Windows Backup - it's all there.

I only backup photos, music files, my electronic circuit diagrams, ffmpeg info and software I use to an external hard drive. I also have a spare windows 10 PC which is ready to go as a mirror of my main PC. Every time there is a major update I do a Creative Media Tool download of Windows 10 for installation if necessary.

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 08 May 20 - 12:33 PM

So this is WHAT you do - but why? Are you using the Win10 backup tools? I'm looking for someone who has compared the NT backup to the new Win 10 backup and can explain their decision for using one over the other.

I also have a spare Win10 computer that is offline, with a backup for that (it won't communicate with the network unless I reinstall the OS but I would lose all of the programs I have loaded in there.)

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 08 May 20 - 12:49 PM

No I don't use the Win10 backup tools. I can't help you on NT backup.

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 08 May 20 - 12:50 PM

Win7 is the NT backup.

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Nick
Date: 08 May 20 - 01:15 PM

A bit like Bonzo I clone the C: drive of my main machine to a spare drive either when there is a major windows change (ie do it before and then when it settles and I'm sure is ok) or when I have installed significant new software. Or generally about once a month

Most things I save on a 2Tb external drive. Day to day stuff is either in Documents or Desktop. I back up the bits I want from the 2Tb drive and the local C: drive but just use Robocopy from habit. Ran it today and it takes under a minute if it's up to date. If I back up the whole of Lightroom it takes 17 minutes which I do occasionally but not routinely

@ECHO ********* SECOND MACHINE and TECKNET DOCK NEEDS TO BE ON ********
@ECHO ********* Run As Administrator to back up Lightroom ********
@ECHO ********* Last run May 8 2020 - UPDATE DATE AFTER ********
@ECHO ********* Last CLONE run April 29 2020 - UPDATE DATE AFTER ********
PAUSE
robocopy H:\APPLICATIONS E:\BACKUPfrom2TB\APPLICATIONS /MIR
robocopy H:\DOCUMENTS E:\BACKUPfrom2TB\DOCUMENTS /MIR
robocopy H:\ISOs E:\BACKUPfrom2TB\ISOs /MIR
robocopy H:\MEGA E:\BACKUPfrom2TB\MEGA /MIR
robocopy H:\MIXING_COURSE E:\BACKUPfrom2TB\MIXING_COURSE /MIR
robocopy H:\MUSIC E:\BACKUPfrom2TB\MUSIC /MIR
robocopy H:\REAPER_PROJECTS E:\BACKUPfrom2TB\REAPER_PROJECTS /MIR
net use T: /delete /Y
net use T: \\NAMEOFMYCOMPUTER\backupfrommain
robocopy C:\users\MYUSERNAME\desktop T:\users\desktop /MIR
robocopy C:\users\MYUSERNAME\documents T:\users\documents /MIR
robocopy H:\PICTURES T:\Users\2TBDRIVE\PICTURES /MIR
start /wait notepad.exe "C:\Users\MYUSERNAME\Desktop\BAT files\BackUpAllDrives.bat"
PAUSE

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: DaveRo
Date: 08 May 20 - 03:01 PM

When my wife's laptop updated win 7 to 10, some years ago, I was suspicious of File History backup and carried on using thw win 7 backup. But after researching it, I changed over, using a USB3 drive, and it's works well. I ran both for a while. She could display all past versions of a file in file manager, and restore any one of them.

But it's intended to work continuously in the background, with the backup drive always available, and I wanted the backup disconnected to avoid ransomeware. So I put a shortcut on the desktop to start it up manually.

I never had to restore the whole drive so I can't comment on that.

Technically, what it does is make a copy of the directory structure (like Linux rsync) and simply adds a timestamp to each filename. That's what you see if you mount the backup drive.

As I posted on this thread recently, she's now using Linux. No more Windows Update! But I miss file history backup.

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 08 May 20 - 05:20 PM

The answer I've discovered is that it is a bit of both. To use the File History, it is set up with the Win10 settings, but when you select to save the system image, then the Win7 feature kicks in to save the system image. I stopped it in progress the first time through because I thought I'd selected the wrong settings. Not easy to remove the partial files, but I did, and have it set up to run again now.

I like the idea that with File History you can find and restore specific files, but I also have the concern about it being connected all of the time; I've considered setting it in the closet connected through the UPS, but I'd have to figure out how to route it there (it's connected to my router). In the past I turned on the backup drive to run once a week or so; this is set up to run an incremental backup every day. I think that UPS needs a new battery by now so before I try that setup, I need to replace the batteries. Separate issue, part of the whole big question.

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: DaveRo
Date: 09 May 20 - 03:36 AM

Ransomeware is still common, and getting more sophisticated. I was reading about one called Maze the other day. They're aimed at businesses so they're good at detecting network connections and encrypting any volumes they can find. Maze also tries to delete any 'shadow volumes' it finds (I'm not sure what these are). ISTR reading that they can wait until drives are connected before kicking off. So it's vital to keep backups, or some of them, physically disconnected.

My solution was only practicable on a laptop which is used on the kitchen table. On a desktop it would be too easy to forget to unplug the drive.

If I had to set it up with ethernet I'd think of a way of unmounting or disconnecting the remote drive after use. I could for example connect the drive to a RaspberryPi and have the RPi unmount it, or shutdown, afterwards. Or power it via a timeswich that turns off after 5 minutes - enough to do one backup. (RPi's are cheap, and fun to use - if you're technically inclined. I use one as a music player, and a backup device - though I no longer worry about ransomeware.)

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 09 May 20 - 03:58 AM

At work we have auto backup of the server every hour. This means that Windows "restore previous versions" has saved the day on many occasions when an excel file for instance has become corrupt, or deleted by mistake, you can see a previous saved version of the file!

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 12 May 20 - 04:21 PM

We have our computers set up so we know how to do the things we want with the tools we want - but it seems that Microsoft is pushing out one of the largest Patch Tuesday updates ever; 111 vulnerabilities are being addressed.

https://www.zdnet.com/article/microsoft-may-2020-patch-tuesday-fixes-111-vulnerabilities/.

Good luck. Who knows what will be altered or cleared out when it finishes.

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 14 May 20 - 02:25 AM

Did the updates last night - watch this space!!

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 14 May 20 - 11:13 AM

I set it up to update and turn off. So far this morning after restart all is well, and during the update it didn't remove my addition of the old Win7 Solitaire games (the last big OS revision got rid of the Microsoft games but left in place my 2003 html editor "Frontpage.")

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 16 May 20 - 07:59 AM

No problems so far, but then I don't allow any irish diddly diddly music on my PC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: EBarnacle
Date: 18 May 20 - 06:33 PM

I got this from friend earlier today He was gloating that Linux is admitted to be greater than Windows. My response is the top entry.

What these articles really say is that the products have been evolving toward each other over the years. Open source allows greater development flexibility. Of course, it also creates vulnerabilities when a feature has not been fully vetted. Adopt at your own risk.
I wonder whether Apple will get on the bandwagon also and finally allow a unified system that works on all platforms. If so, that will turn product competition into a hardware race.
New apps would be exchangeable between systems.
If you look at the guts of machines, they are nearly all interchangeable parts already.
If you look at the history of Microsoft, they have never been slow to adopt improvements, even if they had to buy out the competition to get them in order to avoid copyright suits. Being open source, they do not even have to buy Linux.   

Yep, Microsoft has been open sourcing many of their own products. The past several years have been a major transition for Microsoft. Here's an article on the Windows Subsystem For Linux:

https://www.theverge.com/2019/5/6/18534687/microsoft-windows-10-linux-kernel-feature

https://www.theverge.com/2020/5/18/21262103/microsoft-open-source-linux-history-wrong-statement

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: DaveRo
Date: 19 May 20 - 02:33 AM

When 'Windows Subsystem for Linux' (WSL) came out a few years back I loaded it onto the old desktop on which I still have an (unregistered) copy of Win10 to see what it was. The thing that puzzled me then is why it was called that. It's just a Linux system (command line only - no graphical interface) running within Win10. It should be called 'Linux Subsystem for Windows'. So if you have a program or suite of programs that runs on Linux you can run it there, in a command shell, and it can intercommunicate - I think - with Windows programs and files.

But why would anybody do that? I assumed this was Microsoft trying to slow migration of server systems to Linux. Businesses can stay on Windows and still use odd bits of Linux code intergrated with their existing systems.

And Windows still has its own kernel. It's just updating the one in 'WSL' - admittedly to a very recent one.

Microsoft is trying to adapt to a world of mobile devices and huge servers accessed over 'the cloud'. And it has nothing to offer in either. Maybe the name 'Windows Subsystem for Linux' indicates that eventually they'll turn Windows inside out and it'll become a Linux Operating System with an (optional?) built in Windows graphical interface.

WSL does have something to offer to a few of us here. You can run the Linux command line stuff such as bash and ffmpeg on it, so that's more portable.

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Nick
Date: 19 May 20 - 08:50 AM

This is a bit of a mea cupla re Windows 10...

Well it's coming up for 5 years since I started using Windows 10 (May or June 2015 when we started testing with it) and I still think it is one of the better editions. I liked 3.1, Windows 98 Second edition, Win XP, Windows 7.

But I have always been really bad through most of those versions of abusing my desktop space. I drop things on it constantly. Shortcuts to things. program launches. Things I'm working on. Inevitably when it all gets too much I copy all the crap into another folder and start again.

And... yes... I know it's wrong and I'm a hopeless case.

So in a way I still use Windows a little bit like I did back in 3.1 days and even though I have used (and supported tangentially because of the software the company I worked for made) every version since there is still a legacy there. And a like for DOS, Robocopy and bat files.

I think I found Windows 8 more of an irritation to work round than a positive venture and 10 is a descendant I guess.

So...

There I was thinking that my desktop was taking over again and I could do with a tidy up. And wondering whether I should reorganise the taskbar that has shortcuts to all the programs I use regularly as it was getting unwieldy when I suddenly noticed the start menu that I have been ignoring for 5-8 years. And I thought. I wonder what that is there for?

Previously I have passed it by as an irritation offering me news that I don't want, apps and movies and games that I will never use, just a thing I am glad when it disappears - why are some of those icons SO LARGE???

So then the penny dropped that must have dropped for everyone else apart from me.

That it is rather good.

My life is now revolutionised. My new desktop world has nothing on it apart from one folder, the Recycle bin (which I can't get rid of) and my Killchrome.bat file that shuts the memory consuming multiple versions of Chrome running in the background and foreground as it occasionally gets in the way when recording music. And nothing else.

In any program I now press the Windows key and am one click away from launching anything I need - from storage, to music, to little tools I find handy, online meetings, all the folders I use.

I kick myself for being an idiot and making life difficult for myself when the most obvious thing that was trying to help was staring at me every day. I must have clicked on Start 10's of thousands of times over the last 5 years...

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Nick
Date: 19 May 20 - 09:08 AM

I use an iPad too and the piece of software that I used to work on was developed on the basis of touch and icons and new Windows systems and use on mobile devices.

I still like a big keyboard and a decent sized screen (and wouldn't like to try and mix music on a phone or tablet!) but you would have thought that I might have linked the two things together and realised that Windows was trying to help me. But no. I was still right clicking on things and putting shortcuts on taskbars etc etc and doing everything I could to make things hard.

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Joe G
Date: 19 May 20 - 09:12 AM

Interesting what you have done with the start menu, Nick. I like the way you have organised folders and programmes - I do that on the desktop but they move around occasionally!

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Nick
Date: 19 May 20 - 09:54 AM

Joe, I guess I have always tried to have a minimum of clicks to get to do what I want. And it was there all along!

An example I have a number of audio devices and find that I was going to check in Settings - Sounds to see what is using what. Previously clicks START --> Settings --> System --> Sounds. Now Windows key and Sounds.

Work in progress. "Everything that can be invented has been invented" might be true in this case though (and I know the quote is apocryphal from c1900)

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 19 May 20 - 11:09 AM

I'm glad you shared that, Nick! I rarely use that part of Windows with the large icons, though when I set up a new computer I make sure to delete the ones I don't want. I'll have to play around with that and see if I can make it more useful. So far I've only used it to open the programs that for some reason I can't send as a link to my regular old-fashioned desktop that I always favor (and that I have set up with a background image of the surface of Mars and tracks from the current rover.)

Bill Gates counts to 10.

1, 2, 3, 95, 98, NT, 2000, XP, VISTA, 7, 8, 10. That list leaves out the wretched mess that was ME (Millennium Edition), a version of 98, that came on one of my computers. I did a dual boot system with NT from work until they finally released all of the drivers for the equipment in the computer and then I killed off ME.)

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Nick
Date: 19 May 20 - 12:34 PM

SRS - I think you may have the same 'old familiar desktop' syndrome that I have suffered with for a lot of years.

So I put what I want on the old familiar desktop. And then it gets too busy. Because of ignoring Windows 8 I ignored the whole charm thing and the big brash icons. I had also always disliked single click program launch from earlier versions in that I inevitably opened things by mistake and forgot to hover over so that I could access right click etc

But I think this current thing seems to give me all the things I want.
* A single click launch for programs
* A constantly available desktop that the Windows key gives me access to - and more critically - allows me to do an action (eg launch something else like Sounds in the previous post) and then returns me back to exactly where I was
* It may mean I use Desktop pins less. ie the program that lets me keep a window on top (like Notepad) while I work on a document or program under it. I have always been surprised that it is not standard in Windows as I use it everyday several times
* The ability to group things together under headings. Rather than grouping them by position on my desktop
* Flexibility of adding and removal without any real work

I'll show you what I mean. Here's a little video of me doing some stuff in real time. I have notepad pinned because I can grab the link to the program I'm using that I like ScreenRec. Free and 2gb of online storage to share videos and things like I am doing now.

Then I launch it with windows key and keep going (ignore the fact it was open already to record this!). Then launch a track I'm doing in Reaper but open sounds to check what it is currently using and then come back here and finish typing.

Works for me! A little video that shows me typing the last couple of paragraphs. My previous set up would have been clunkier I think. Workflow now I have started to use Windows 10 a bit better...

And as I only really want to back up active things I only want to save things in very few places on the local machine - desktop and documents. Photos and music go elsewhere

I disliked ME and Vista. And 8 was a route along the way! I should have taken more notice looking back.

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Nick
Date: 19 May 20 - 12:39 PM

And a very clean desktop. Perhaps I'll add a picture but tend not to because of photoediting.

Probably be full of rubbish by next week.

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 19 May 20 - 03:42 PM

Isn't that clever! And I like your screen recording program. I suspect Bill_D will have some great software to share also if he discovers this thread.

When Win8 came out I decided I needed to figure out what in heck it was doing so I worked through a couple of the Lynda.com tutorials to see how to use it, and that helped. It was designed specifically to be used on touchscreen computers and tablets, but people resisted using the touch screen, making the design seem a bit overblown.

I use a double-wide monitor setup and they're both 27", so a lot of real estate to work on. The thing that drives me nuts is when something happens that suddenly lines up all of my icons in one place and the order and distribution has to be recreated. The newer desktop seems to eliminate that occasional catastrophe. I still have a couple of generations back folder that was a virtual desktop where I kept all of those links in one place. I just opened it - it's a folder in my documents and is a series of folders and individual files, photos, pdfs, etc. I should probably look through it and delete it, though I still use it for a couple of things (out of habit.) Those folders are linked to my main desktop.

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 09 Jun 20 - 08:23 PM

Here is information about the June patch rollout:

Microsoft June 2020 Patch Tuesday fixes 129 vulnerabilities.

Microsoft has released today the June 2020 Patch Tuesday, the company's monthly security updates.

This month, Redmond engineers have patched 129 vulnerabilities, making this the largest Patch Tuesday release in the company's history.

The good news is that despite this month's bulkiness, none of the vulnerabilities have been exploited in the wild before Microsoft released patches today (no zero-days).

System administrators who manage large fleets of computers -- such as those deployed across enterprises and government organizations -- are advised to test today's updates for any bugs and deploy them as soon as possible.

Malware authors are known to keep on eye out on Microsoft's monthly security updates, select the most useful bugs, and patch-diff the security updates to find the exact bug that Microsoft fixed -- so they can weaponize it as soon as possible.

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Joe G
Date: 09 Jun 20 - 08:29 PM

Hope it all goes well for everyone! Touch wood I have had no problems with updates but many have sadly

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 10 Jun 20 - 07:26 AM

I'm updating to Windows 10 ver 2004 on my spare PC to get an idea of the time it takes - so far just over 1 hour to "get things ready" and get to 98% "downloading"!

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 10 Jun 20 - 11:33 AM

It's a long haul, at least 2.5 hours.

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 10 Jun 20 - 12:09 PM

I have it download in the background and the computer tells me that it's going to restart during off hours (unless I choose to do it manually). I don't know how long it took to download. Knock wood this update went okay so far.

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 10 Jun 20 - 12:22 PM

It restarts several times in the final stages.

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 10 Jun 20 - 12:33 PM

How long left for win 8.1 support...???

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 10 Jun 20 - 03:18 PM

Already stopped!!

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 10 Jun 20 - 04:41 PM

Of course as with any major windows upgrade you are left with a "windows.old" folder 25gb+ !!

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 11 Jun 20 - 04:54 AM

Update to ver2004 took just 80 minutes on my work pc, but it's very fast.

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: GUEST,JoeG
Date: 11 Jun 20 - 05:12 AM

I had an update yesterday but only a minor one. Mine must still be in the tubes!

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 13 Jun 20 - 05:31 PM

Be careful you don't get hooked into opening a Microsoft account!

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 13 Jun 20 - 05:50 PM

I've had one for years, but I NEVER let the computer use that to set up the logon. Microsoft can be very bossy and sometimes a bit tricky with the logon placement.

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 15 Jun 20 - 12:47 PM

It sounds like this current rollout has caused some difficulties for some users of the Chrome browser. Windows 10 May 2020 Update is now causing problems for Google Chrome users

Windows 10 May 2020 Update is causing more problems, this time for those using the popular Chrome browser, who are being logged out of their account every time they reboot their PC – and this is reportedly happening with other software too, like Battle.net.

As Windows Latest spotted, there are multiple reports of this bug on Google’s own support forum (linked here: 1, 2, 3) and on Reddit, with anecdotal indications that this gremlin not only affects the Chrome browser, but also Battle.net, and possibly Edge.

May 2020 Update is blocked by this security feature

How to work smarter from home with Windows 10

We solve 100 common Windows 10 problems

So it seems that this is an issue with Windows 10 and the latest upgrade, rather than with Chrome. Browser cookies are apparently being deleted randomly, and users are being logged out of their account(s), and forced to log back in repeatedly.

The rest is at the link. I don't always include the promotional links tucked into articles, but in this instance some of them might be helpful. They're the bullet items.

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Nick
Date: 15 Jun 20 - 02:23 PM

I had done my now routine drive clone so thought it would be a good time to move to the latest version - 2004 - so I did. Especially as something had stopped Jamkazam working out of the blue somewhere round June 12th. It had been working fine for months up until then. I had put it down to the security update (not the 2004 update) that I installed on 12/6/2020. But when I went to look for it it's not there anymore! I presume that once the machine is updated the previous updates aren't relevant? Recent update history

So far I have had no problems with Chrome or anything and the only thing that is different is that Jamkazam is now working again!

If I get any hassles I will let you know but so far no problems I'm aware of. And I have my clone to fall back on just in case so feel reasonably relaxed. AND don't need to work out why something had stopped working.

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Nick
Date: 16 Jun 20 - 07:52 AM

So far so good but somewhere along the line I came across a Windows feature that I never knew existed. It relates back to our desktop discussions a while back. I never knew that you could show the desktop by moving your mouse to the end of the start bar. Probably in the far right corner of the machine if you have the start bar in the normal place. I used to use WINDOWS-D to show and hide but I didn't know that the little gap existed or when it first came in... I looked on my other Windows 10 machine on 1909 and it is there. It may have been there forever. Show /Peak Desktop

Though why I would want to see it when there's nothing on it!

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Joe G
Date: 16 Jun 20 - 10:20 AM

Just tried that - I didn't know that either but I am sure there is loads of stuff I don't know - and will probably never need!

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: DaveRo
Date: 16 Jun 20 - 10:54 AM

Anybody use multiple desktops?

Windows 10’s multiple desktops

One of two useful innovations I found in Windows 10 when I updated our Win 7 laptop back in 2015. Not as good as two monitors - but cheaper.

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 16 Jun 20 - 12:16 PM

That's funny! That oddball button has been there and I've never had the curiosity to look at it (or the accidental triggering of it). I'll have to poke around. I did set up a separate administrator account in case I want to work on a completely different clean area (and I don't know if it will access existing files in my main administrator account.)

Discipline is to use the computer as a user and not an administrator so less stuff can affect the computer if something malware-like happens while you're working, but I would rather just set things up as I need them.

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Nick
Date: 16 Jun 20 - 01:07 PM

As said above, I have always tried (usually failed) to not use desktops as dumping grounds. I did look at virtual desktops when I was at work but never really used them as I don't think they save do they? I can see that they might be good but I think it would confuse me. And I think, as they look pretty much the same that I might get lost and panic and lose something! But that is probably based on a lack of info.

I am actually really happy with my current start menu which seems to work for what I'm doing these days. If I find I'm using something often I just add it to start and because it's organised into little sections I just add a little icon to a section if I find I use it much.

I added Device Manager today so it's one click away as I found it fiddly to get to. I came across a lovely little registry hack (I am as certain as I can be that it is safe) which allows you to Pin ANYTHING to Start. So any document, program, system process etc can be pinned to start and become one click away once it's run as long as you can create a shortcut to it. Once you have created the shortcut the option to Pin to Start appears and you can then delete the shortcut and it just works.

The hack is create a reg file from this in notepad (don't do this if you don't fiddle about in the registry) and run it as Admin. If not admin it will just do the particular User.

*****

Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00

[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\AllFileSystemObjects\shellex\ContextMenuHandlers\{470C0EBD-5D73-4d58-9CED-E91E22E23282}]
@="Pin to Start"

*****

It gets overwritten when Windows is upgraded but (of course) there is a pintostart.reg pinned to the start :) So WINDOWS key - one click and it's done. I have definitely adapted to launching everything from WINDOWS - choose program/file/resource/system file and only occasionally launch things from Taskbar or one of the very few things on my desktop. I particularly like being able to access the Settings - Sound/Device Manager/Display/Clocks and Stopwatches etc/Power and Sleep/Windows Update/etc - via WINDOWS key and a single click

Perhaps oone day I'll use it right :)

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: EBarnacle
Date: 19 Jun 20 - 10:47 AM

Yesterday I complained to the makers of Minesweeper that their add on the bottom of the screen was not removable and interfered with play. Apparently they had had other complaints, as they responded that they were correcting this and things would be back to normal in a few hours. Kinda nice when a corporation takes responsibility and follows up.

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 20 Jun 20 - 01:45 PM

There was something about that latest Windows update that is messing with programs that have to load and logon to accounts. My Quicken software seems to be dead in the water and Chrome is very slow to open or to offer results and open them. I don't know if this is tied to the reported story from ZDnet: Windows 10 2004 glitch: Microsoft admits bug breaks Storage Spaces, corrupts files

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: EBarnacle
Date: 20 Jun 20 - 01:51 PM

Followup to June 19: Minesweeper now works almost as before the recent improvements. Now, it plays the same but as soon as you win, an ad page jumps up every time. This is differs from the other free games on line, where the ads only come up after several plays.

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Nick
Date: 20 Jun 20 - 03:30 PM

You could vow never to finish a game and you would be ad free

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 07 Jul 20 - 03:46 PM

I was happily using Windows Edge (Legacy) until a Windows update last Saturday which left me with the hideous Edge Chromium, an abomination which cannot be deleted. Now I don't do cannot be deleted!!

Fortunately this link describes how to restore old Edge Legacy Browser

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 07 Jul 20 - 03:49 PM

Ah, best to do a system restore to before the recent update after first disabling WIndows Update, to stop it putting the latest update back!

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: DaveRo
Date: 08 Jul 20 - 03:18 AM

Careful: I think that article is old - from when you had to install Chromiun Edge yourself. One of the comments says it no longer works.

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 08 Jul 20 - 04:39 PM

It's working for me.

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 11 Aug 20 - 04:51 PM

Heads up! It's Patch Tuesday, and apparently there are a whole bunch of updates.

Microsoft August 2020 Patch Tuesday fixes 120 vulnerabilities, two zero-days

Microsoft says attackers have used a Windows zero-day to spoof file signatures and another RCE in the Internet Explorer scripting engine to execute code on users' devices.

Microsoft has started rolling out today the August 2020 Patch Tuesday security updates.

This month, the company has patched 120 vulnerabilities across 13 different products, from Edge to Windows, and from SQL Server to the .NET Framework.

Among the 120 vulnerabilities fixed this month, 17 bugs have received the highest severity rating of "Critical," and there are also two zero-days — vulnerabilities that have been exploited by hackers before Microsoft was able to provide today's patches.

Zero-day #1
The first of the two zero-days patched this month is a bug in the Windows operating system. Tracked as CVE-2020-1464, Microsoft says that an attacker can exploit this bug and have Windows incorrectly validate file signatures.

The OS maker says attackers can (ab)use this bug to "bypass security features and load improperly signed files."

As with all Microsoft security advisories, technical details about the bug and the real-world attacks have not been made public. Microsoft security team uses this approach to prevent other hackers from inferring how and where the vulnerability wors/resides, and prolong the time it takes for other exploits to appear in the wild.

Zero-day #2
As for the second zero-day, this one is tracked as CVE-2020-1380, and resides in the scripting engine that ships with Internet Explorer.

Microsoft said it received a report from antivirus maker Kaspersky that hackers had found a remote code execution (RCE) bug in the IE scripting engine and where abusing it in real-world attacks.

While the bug resides in the IE scripting engine, other native Microsoft apps are also impacted, such as the company's Office suite.

This is because Office apps use the IE scripting engine to embed and render web pages inside Office documents, a feature where the scripting engine plays a major role.

This means the bug can be exploited by luring users on malicious sites, or by sending them booby-trapped Office files.

The rest is at the link, and will be updated with more information when they get it.

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 11 Aug 20 - 05:53 PM

I'm just cloning my hard drive to ssd, I'll have no interference from damned updates!!!

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 11 Aug 20 - 06:22 PM

Whatever they did a few days ago, it has slowed my Windows 10 right down! Other friends have said the same. One of them mentioned update no 2004 and managed to roll it back. Anyone else had similar problems? (UK- based.)

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 11 Aug 20 - 06:50 PM

I've notice a slowdown also.

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 11 Aug 20 - 07:35 PM

I have 2004 but did the fix to retain Edge Legacy. Now here's a queer thing, I cloned my hard drive to an SSD using SATA to USB converter, which booted up OK but my external hard drives are not showing up in file explorer. However, after reconnecting my old hard drive everything is fine. So I did the clone again but this time with the SSD connected via SATA - will see tomorrow!!

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Jos
Date: 13 Aug 20 - 07:58 AM

I have just been told of someone who found all their photographs had been deleted by a bug in the recent Windows 10 update. Has anyone else found this?

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Aug 20 - 05:34 PM

Found the solution to uninstalling Edge Chromium browser -

How to uninstall edge chromium when windows won't let you

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 30 Aug 20 - 05:37 PM

Guest at 05:34 pm was me, I forgot our old laptop was not logged in!

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 23 Sep 20 - 12:10 PM

It looks like there's another big update rollout in October, 2020.

This ZD Net page has links to a bunch of related topics.

This is the heading and subhead on the page:

Windows 10 20H2: New build brings this bunch of bug fixes for October 2020 Update

Microsoft releases a preview of Windows 10 20H2 that resolves a lot of issues for Windows 10 in the enterprise.

Sometimes they release versions for specific types of devices (servers versus personal computers, enterprise versus home use, etc.) so see if there's anything useful here for anyone interested.

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 23 Sep 20 - 01:24 PM

I'll possible give that a miss for a few months!!

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: EBarnacle
Date: 23 Sep 20 - 02:00 PM

The really interesting thing about the new rollout is that it, and future updates, is supposed to be largely Linux based.

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 20 Oct 20 - 03:41 PM

NSA publishes list of top vulnerabilities currently targeted by Chinese hackers

NSA urges US public and private sector to apply patches or mitigations to prevent attacks.

The US National Security Agency has published today an in-depth report detailing the top 25 vulnerabilities that are currently being consistently scanned, targeted, and exploited by Chinese state-sponsored hacking groups.

All 25 security bugs are well known and have patches available from their vendors, ready to be installed.

Exploits for many vulnerabilities are also publicly available. Some have been exploited by more than just Chinese hackers, being also incorporated into the arsenal of ransomware gangs, low-level malware groups, and nation-state actors from other countries (i.e., Russia and Iran).

"Most of the vulnerabilities listed below can be exploited to gain initial access to victim networks using products that are directly accessible from the Internet and act as gateways to internal networks," the NSA said today.

And on a completely different note,

Ransomware gang donates part of ransom demands to charity organizations

The Darkside ransomware gang has donated $10K it received as part of ransom demands to Children International and The Water Project.

Robin Hood?

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: DaveRo
Date: 21 Oct 20 - 03:33 AM

EBarnacle wrote: The really interesting thing about the new rollout is that it, and future updates, is supposed to be largely Linux based.

I was wondering whether that was where Windows was going up thread.

Last month Eric Raymond (an open source 'guru' - he wrote The Cathedral and the Bazaar) claimed in a widely-shared piece that Microsoft was "Switching To a Linux Kernel That Emulates Windows". I didn't see any articles that refuted that. Until the other day, when a Ubuntu guy disagreed. (But if not, why 'WSL'?)

Whichever - Windows seems to be moving to a Linux-style package manager with the release of 'winget', which is rip-off of the aptget package manager used in several Linux systems. So maybe restarting during system updates will one day become a bad memory for Windows users.

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 23 Oct 20 - 02:17 PM

Windows 10: Best 3 new features, and how to use them

The Windows 10 October 2020 Update brings some new tricks for your browser, Start menu and more.

The Windows 10 ($145 at Amazon) October 2020 Update has finally arrived, and will be slowly rolling out to desktops, laptops and two-in-ones over the coming weeks. Once you've updated, you'll find a few important new features that will help you get the most out of your device. (Learn how to download the Windows 10 October 2020 Update here. If you still haven't upgraded from Windows 7 ($25 at Amazon), you may be able to use this trick to download Windows 10 free, too).

Upgrading as soon as the update is available to you will make your computing life easier and more secure. And at this point, as many of us are spending more time at home on our computers for work or play, every little thing that can make your experience better is a win in our book.

Here are three of the best new features in the Windows 10 October 2020 Update (also known as version 20H2), and how to use them.

1. Microsoft Edge browser brings privacy improvements

Windows 10 Version 20H2 is the first to come with the revamped Microsoft Edge browser installed by default. The browser is now built on Chromium, Google's open-source foundation for the Chrome browser, which makes it compatible with more websites than the old version was.

There are other benefits, too. The new Edge browser includes a privacy feature that tries to block sites that track you online -- similar to Mozilla's Firefox browser. And a feature called Collections lets you more easily gather information from different websites as you're doing research.

How to use the new Edge browser privacy settings: You'll use the new Edge browser in largely the same way you would any other browser. Navigate to the logo on your Taskbar or from the Start menu -- it appears as a circular crashing wave tinting blue, green and aqua, similar to the old blue Internet Explorer "e" icon.

To set up your privacy features, go to Settings > Privacy and services. You'll see three options for tracking prevention: basic (allows most trackers), balanced (blocks trackers from sites you haven't visited -- Microsoft recommends this one) and Strict (blocks a majority of trackers from all sites).

To check your privacy settings on the fly, when you're using the browser, click the lock icon to the left of the search bar. A box will appear letting you know if your connection is secure, with options to check the site certificate, cookies in use, and site permissions. You can also toggle on or off Tracking Prevention, and manage the setting for all sites you visit. If it's set to on, you'll see the number of trackers that the browser has blocked.

How to use the Edge browser Collections feature: Once you've navigated to a page you'd like to save, click the icon that looks like a "+" in a box, to the right of the search bar. This will open the Collections panel to the right of your screen. Click Start new collection, and rename it to whatever you'd like. You can click Add current page to save the webpage you're on. You can also click and drag an image from the page into the collection, as well as select and drag text, and add your own notes too. To export your collection to Word or Excel, click the three-dot share and more icon at the top of the collection.

2. Customize your new Start menu

The classic Windows Start menu gets a refresh in the October 2020 Update. The new version features a more streamlined design, and replaces the solid color backplates behind the logos in your apps list with partially transparent backgrounds, so the icons stand out more. The colors will also change depending on if you're running light or dark mode.

How to customize the new Start menu: If you want to add an accent color so your tiles match your desktop theme, you can go to Settings > Personalization > Color and enable the accent color on Start, taskbar and action center.

3. Open all of your tabs at once

With the update, you'll be able to open all of your tabs in Edge with a simple command, instead of just the active one in each browser window. This makes it easier to get a full view of every window you have open, instead of just one. You'll also be able to configure it to show only your last three or five tabs, or turn it off completely. However, it only works with the Edge browser, at least for now.

How to customize your tabs: To open all tabs in Edge at once, press Alt + Tab. To configure your tab settings or turn off the feature, go to Settings > System > Multitasking. You'll see a drop down menu with options for what Alt + Tab can do.

Want more? Check out our roundup of the best Windows 10 tips and tricks, and six simple security changes all Windows 10 users need to make.

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: GUEST,CJB666
Date: 25 Oct 20 - 08:34 AM

Don't use Edge. Does this update delete user files too - like last year?

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Joe G
Date: 25 Oct 20 - 12:16 PM

I read somewhere that it may delete Program Files and Program data which is even more worrying! I don't know if this is a common problem but I'm not updating until I can be sure it has been ironed out! I haven't downloaded the earlier release yet either - my PC hasn't pushed it on me so I'll leave well alone!

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 19 Jan 21 - 05:13 PM

From Gizmodo: This New Windows 10 Bug Could Brick Your PC.

Don’t do it. Most people aren’t going to experiment with navigating to root Windows 10 folders, but just in case anyone might be digging around in the software guts of their PC, it’s best to stay away from inputting this file path into your browser: “xxxxxxxxxxxx\device\condrv\kernelconnect”. [I'm not inserting the code in this thread.] It will not only instantly crash your PC, but also give you the dreaded blue screen of death (BSOD), from which your PC might not be able to recover. Do not do it!

According to Tom’s Guide, the bug was recently discovered by Windows security researcher Jonas Lykkegaard, who’s been tweeting about the issue on-and-off since October 2020. Lykkegaard explained that when the above path is opened in Windows 10, regardless of if the user has administrative privileges or not, the system can’t properly check for errors when it tries to connect to the path, resulting in a BSOD crash.

Aside from developers, there isn’t much of a reason why an average Windows 10 user would want to dig around in the root folders, especially at the kernel level; the Windows kernel is a crucial program that allows the operating system to function, controlling everyday processes like running drivers, and starting and ending programs. . . .While Gizmodo hasn’t tested the link ourselves (out of an abundance of caution that it might kill one of our few test PCs), both Tom’s Guide and BleepingComputer have sacrificed a PC for the cause. The PC that Tom’s Guide used became stuck in an Automatic Repair boot loop. BleepingComputer didn’t say if its PC made it out alive, but it confirmed this bug is present on Windows 10 version 1709 and later.

The rest is at the link.

I've used both Tom's Guide and Bleeping Computer when solving computing and software issues. Bleeping Computer in particular has a lot of answers, but search before you ask a question.

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 18 Mar 21 - 07:44 PM

There was a big update a few days ago and it killed off my Bluetooth icon. I can't connect my headphones or any other devices because the icon is gone, not there to be turned on or off. None of the tips so far have given me a clue as to how to restore the icon. Any ideas?

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Joe Offer
Date: 18 Mar 21 - 07:51 PM

SRS, do you get anything if you type bluetooth in the search box on the bar at the bottom left corner of your screen?

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 18 Mar 21 - 08:23 PM

I've tried all of those approaches to pull up the icon to turn it on. It keeps telling me to turn it on but gives me no way to do it. I'm now running an update from Dell and after it restarts I'll see if it has been restored.

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 19 Mar 21 - 12:25 AM

I'm not sure if the update killed my Bluetooth, but a system restore didn't restore it. Now to figure out where the device lives and see about replacing it. Getting under the hood is something I'm willing to do, rather than take a computer to a shop and let someone else slog around in there.

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: DaveRo
Date: 19 Mar 21 - 03:40 AM

Is it built-in or USB? Either way I'd probably look in the device manager to see if it can see the BT adapter, and if so reinstall its driver, preferably from the manufacturer's website - if you can find one. If it's up to date try an older one. It doesn't always work though; since I had to reinstall Win10 on my wife's laptop I can't get the trackpoint to work even with Lenovo's own drivers.

If it can't see the BT device at all it could be that it's been 'killed'. It's usually only laptops that have killswitches - often a function key that switches off all 'radios' - wifi and bluetooth, or either of them. (This is another thing that doesn't work on the Lenovo.) So when you've exhausted drivers investigate that. (Google 'rfkill windows' or similar.)

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 19 Mar 21 - 12:34 PM

You're on the right path, Dave. There is now an "unknown device" in the device list, and I'm finding chatter at Dell about this. Before I reset BIOS to factory or open the case and remove the coin battery or do a selective system restore (I did that last night and it took a couple of hours, and didn't work) I've found this info at Dell:

Removing the Unknown USB Device and installing the latest version of bluetooth drivers helps resolve the issue.

Shutdown system. Unplug AC power cord and then press power button for 10 second.
Power on system and go to Device Manager.
In Device Manager window, check if bluetooth adapter is detected and installed correctly.
If the Qualcomm QCA61x4A has a yellow exclamation, scroll down, right-click Unknown USB Device (Device Descriptor Request Failed) and select Uninstall.
Browse to the Dell Drivers & downloads page:
Dell XPS 8930
Dell Alienware Aurora R8
Dell Alienware Aurora R9
Dell Alienware Aurora Ryzen Edition R10
Dell Alienware Aurora R11
Select the Operating System.
Under Category, select Network.
Locate the latest Qualcomm QCA61x4A/QCA9377 Wi-Fi and Bluetooth Driver.
Click Download and save the file to your computer.
Open File Explorer and browse to the location where the downloaded file is saved.
Double-click the Qualcomm QCA61x4A/QCA9377 Wi-Fi and Bluetooth Driver setup file and follow the on-screen instructions to complete the installation process.
Shutdown system. Unplug AC power cord and then press power button for 10 second. The power on system.

This is the least painful (versus moving stuff off my desk, moving my desk, opening the now dusty cover, etc.) to try first. The trick to using this method is that while I printed a copy to refer to while the computer is off, I also printed to PDF that I saved on my desktop so I can use the links as they appear in the article to find the exact drivers they point to.

The answer seems to be that somehow Windows knocked out the Bluetooth, this happened after last week's update, but I don't know what it did or how widespread (is this across different computer companies, or just at Dell?)

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 19 Mar 21 - 04:27 PM

I deleted the unknown device then let Dell's diagnostic software look at the machine for missing software and updated the driver for this WiFi/Bluetooth card. Now the Windows Update has happened again and this time the Bluetooth appears to be okay.

It took a few days to realize that something was wrong as far as the computer, not just a case of defunct headphones, plus 24 hours of fussing with the computer to fix it. No dust disturbed in the process, several restarts and aside from a couple of hours lost in that one system restore, it's a good outcome.

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 21 May 21 - 03:17 PM

Here's one I've been expecting for a while; since Microsoft has a robust version (and a Beta version) of MS Edge, they're finally killing of most of the support for Internet Explorer.

Microsoft is dropping support for IE on many versions of Windows 10 on June 15, 2022

Microsoft is taking another big step toward getting rid of Internet Explorer next year, but not every Windows variant still will be IE-free by 2022.

We've known seemingly forever that Microsoft someday intended to get rid of Internet Explorer. But it wasn't until today, May 19, that we got an actual date. IE will be removed from many, but not all, versions of Windows 10 on June 15, 2022.

The June 15, 2022 date for retirement of the IE11 desktop application is for most versions of Windows 10, but not all. The retirement does not affect "in-market" Windows 10 Long Term Servicing Channel (LTSC) or Server Internet Explorer 11 desktop apps, Microsoft officials said. It also doesn't affect the MSHTML ("Trident") rendering engine.

The replacement for IE on Windows 10, obviously, is the new Microsoft Chromium-based Edge. Edge has Internet Explorer (IE) Mode, designed to provide compatibility for legacy IE-based sites and apps.

Here's the fine print as to which versions of Windows are affected by this announcement: IE 11 will be retired for Windows 10 client SKUs (version 20H2 and later) and Windows 10 IoT (version 20H2 and later). Products not affected by this retirement include IE Mode in Edge; IE 11 desktop on Windows 8.1, Windows 7 (with Extended Security Updates), Windows 10 Server Semi-Annual Channel (all versions), Windows 10 IoT LTSC (all versions; Windows 10 Server LTSC (all versions) and Windows 10 client LTSC (all versions).

Microsoft's Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) page on this says IE Mode will be supported on Windows Client, Server and IoT releases through at least 2029. Microsoft will give one year of notice before retiring the IE Mode experience, officials said.

Last year, Microsoft provided some guidance, but no definitive date, for IE11's retirement. At that time, officials said that after November 30, 2020, Microsoft Teams would no longer support IE11. And August 17, 2021, is the date when Microsoft 365, all up, no longer will support IE11.

After March 9, 2021, Microsoft no longer provided any security updates for the legacy Edge desktop app, officials said. They are calling this the "end of life" date for legacy Edge.

There are a number of linked passages in that text that I'm not adding here, so visit the link for more information.

I use Edge for a couple of dedicated tasks - when the main version opens it has about eight tabs to do with some work that I perform every day and gives me all of the sites I work on in relation to that. And I use the Beta version for a few personal things (no extra tabs, but the site keeps a list of regularly used sites I visit for quick access.)

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 21 May 21 - 03:23 PM

And I always advise people to upgrade from the "home" version of any operating system to the pro version. It looks like there is an opportunity now to do that free:

How to upgrade from Windows 10 Home to Pro for free

You've got a new PC running Windows 10 Home. You want to upgrade to Windows 10 Pro. Here's how to get that upgrade for free. All you need is a Pro/Ultimate product key from an older version of Windows.

If you purchase a new PC with Windows 10 Home preinstalled, prepare to be annoyed. This down-market edition (maybe we should just call it Windows for Cheapskates) doesn't have the features you need for getting real work done: Remote Desktop server access, BitLocker disk encryption, group policy support, and control over when updates get installed, just for starters.

You could pay $99 for an upgrade, but before you reach for your wallet, consider a less expensive option.

Do you have an old product key from Windows 7 Pro, Windows 7 Ultimate, or Windows 8/8.1 Pro lying around? Those keys can be reused to enable an upgrade from Windows 10 Home to Windows 10 Pro, potentially saving you the upgrade fee. In fact, you can use a product key from any of these older Windows versions to perform a clean install or to upgrade to Pro.

It's worth rummaging through your garage, storeroom, or email archives to see if you can locate one of those old keys. Maybe you still have a key for one of the heavily discounted upgrades to Windows 8 Pro that Microsoft offered in the first few months after that product's ill-fated launch in 2012.

Or perhaps you have a shrink-wrapped retail copy of Windows 7 Professional or Ultimate, where the license associated with the product key is no longer in use.

Best of all, you only need to use the older product key one time. After you complete the upgrade from Windows 10 Home, the Windows 10 Pro digital license is attached to the specific hardware you just upgraded, allowing you to reinstall that edition of Windows on that hardware anytime, without the need for a product key.

This scenario worked during the early Windows 10 upgrade program, and after some testing and multiple reports from independent testers worldwide I can confirm that it still succeeds in 2021, more than five years later.

Microsoft first made this option available in Windows 10 version 1511. Since then, they have simplified the process dramatically.

I've been testing upgrade/activation scenarios on a wide variety of hardware over the years to see how things work. Here's the scoop.

UPGRADING A NEW PC FROM HOME TO PRO
Let's say you buy a new PC with Windows 10 Home installed by the OEM. Some vendors offer an upgrade option as part of the purchase, but many PCs sold in the retail channel are preloaded with Home edition.

This could also be the case if you took advantage of the free Windows 10 upgrade offer on a PC running a Home edition of Windows 7 or Windows 8.x.

In either case, the upgrade takes just a few minutes. Start at Settings > Update & Security > Activation, where you should see a screen that looks something like this:

Activation image with the cutline "The Pro upgrade accepts product keys from older business (Pro/Ultimate) versions of Windows."

If you don't have a Pro product key and you want to buy one, you can click Go To The Store and purchase the upgrade for $100. Easy.

But if you have a product key for Windows 10 Pro, Windows 7 Professional or Ultimate, or Windows 8/8.1 Pro, there's a less expensive option: Click the Change Product Key link and enter that 25-character key here.

Second activation illustration with the cutline "Enter a product key here and then follow the prompts."

After entering the product key, follow the prompts to perform the upgrade.

You'll see a succession of progress screens and your system will restart. After the upgrade completes, you should see a Success notification. Check the Activation screen again to confirm that you're now running Windows 10 Pro.

CLEAN REINSTALL
After you've successfully performed a Home-to-Pro upgrade, you can file that product key away. Your upgrade is now a digital license, attached to your unique hardware. If you perform a reinstallation of Windows, Microsoft's activation servers will recognize the hardware and activate Windows 10 automatically.

I have tested this scenario multiple times on hardware that originally shipped with Windows Home and was upgraded to Windows 10 Pro. After the upgrade was complete, I used a bootable USB flash drive containing Windows 10 setup files to reinstall a clean copy of Windows 10 Pro, skipping the option to enter a product key as part of setup, as shown below. When prompted, be sure to choose Windows 10 Pro as the edition to install.

Third illustration for activation with the cutline "If your PC already has a Pro license, don't enter a product key when reinstalling."

When setup was complete, I signed in and checked the activation status (Settings > Update & Security > Activation). The system was properly activated, because Microsoft's servers recognized the hardware and used the digital license.

CLEAN REINSTALL, WITH EDITION UPGRADE
The one gotcha in this series of scenarios comes when you have a system that includes digital licenses for both Windows 10 Home and Windows 10 Pro. In that scenario, you can inadvertently restore Windows 10 Home.

This happened recently when I used a recovery image to reinstall Windows 10 on a Surface Pro PC that had originally shipped with Windows 10 Home and had been upgraded to Windows 10 Pro. Not surprisingly, using the recovery image gave me an installation of Windows 10 Home.

If that happens to you, don't bother searching for the product key you used to upgrade. Instead, use Microsoft's generic product key to force the upgrade.

Go to Settings > Update & Security > Activation and click Change Product Key. Next, enter the default Windows 10 Pro product key:

VK7JG-NPHTM-C97JM-9MPGT-3V66T

Follow the prompts to upgrade from Home to Pro. Because your hardware already has a digital license for the Pro edition, it will activate automatically.

That generic product key isn't magical, of course. If your hardware doesn't already have a Pro license, you'll get an activation error and you'll need to supply a proper product key or pay for an upgrade.

Any questions?

I don't usually enter the entire text, but this one seems like something people will want to try in the future and the link might not be durable.

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 24 May 21 - 09:46 AM

A 12 min video from 2019..

.. probably still as relevant...


Why Did I Upgrade To Windows 10????

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 25 May 21 - 08:38 AM

Windows 7 Enterprise enables upgrade to Windows 10 pro, in fact it took just 90 minutes to complete download/installations on a new SSD!

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Nick
Date: 25 May 21 - 08:59 AM

I haven't used IE for years.

And don't have any need for Pro.

The fun people have.

I'm quite enjoying running Big Sur Mac on my Windows 10 Home machine as I was interesting in trying Logic Pro (and yes it works). It does enough for me.

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 05 Jul 21 - 10:33 PM

Some topical adjacent Microsoft vs Amazon cloud storage stuff, for those whose curiosity extends this far: AWS vs Azure: Your Guide to Choosing the Best Cloud Provider in 2021

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 06 Jul 21 - 08:45 AM

And what's happening with the Windows 11 rollout and do we want it?

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 06 Jul 21 - 08:52 AM

Have any Lenovo or other PC owners had this message - "error1962 no operating system found, boot sequence will automatically repeat" ?

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 27 Aug 23 - 11:20 AM

I have cleaned stray files from my desktop and am considering updating to Win11. But it's so much work to put files back into place and install all of my software. I have external drives for different types of files and one for a backup, and have in the past disconnected those before an OS upgrade to keep the computer from accidentally wiping the data. Reattaching them isn't always easy.

How have any of you managed this upgrade with external drives? Also - Microsoft has "Libraries" for file management and by pointing my Libraries to different drives mine always seem to end up with a couple of empty library links in the "Quick Access" area or "This PC" list.

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening - updates
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 28 Aug 23 - 11:47 AM

Windows 10 Home and Pro

Windows 10 Home and Pro follows the Modern Lifecycle Policy.

This applies to the following editions: Home, Pro, Pro Education, Pro for Workstations

Important

Windows 10 will reach end of support on October 14, 2025. The current version, 22H2, will be the final version of Windows 10, and all editions will remain in support with monthly security update releases through that date. Existing LTSC releases will continue to receive updates beyond that date based on their specific lifecycles.

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening - updates
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 28 Aug 23 - 04:00 PM

Well I have updated to 11 some time ago with no apparent ill effects. I suppose that if you are worried about external drives it might be best to disconnect them while upgrading. There is not a lot of obvious (to me) difference between WIN 10 and WIN11

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening - updates
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 28 Aug 23 - 11:55 PM

1000 days - left me in a serious, deep, tech hole.

Six weeks ago ... I was "given a mission."

In-put, our-put, hardware, OS, memory had ALL changed.

Lock-downs did a serious number on my mind ... I had no clue.

Sincerly,
Gargoyle

How I long for DOS 3.0

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening - updates
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 28 Aug 23 - 11:55 PM

1000 days - left me in a serious, deep, tech hole.

Six weeks ago ... I was "given a mission."

In-put, our-put, hardware, OS, memory had ALL changed.

Lock-downs did a serious number on my mind ... I had no clue.

Sincerly,
Gargoyle

How I long for DOS 3.0

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening - updates
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 28 Aug 23 - 04:00 PM

Well I have updated to 11 some time ago with no apparent ill effects. I suppose that if you are worried about external drives it might be best to disconnect them while upgrading. There is not a lot of obvious (to me) difference between WIN 10 and WIN11

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening with rollout
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 27 Aug 23 - 11:20 AM

I have cleaned stray files from my desktop and am considering updating to Win11. But it's so much work to put files back into place and install all of my software. I have external drives for different types of files and one for a backup, and have in the past disconnected those before an OS upgrade to keep the computer from accidentally wiping the data. Reattaching them isn't always easy.

How have any of you managed this upgrade with external drives? Also - Microsoft has "Libraries" for file management and by pointing my Libraries to different drives mine always seem to end up with a couple of empty library links in the "Quick Access" area or "This PC" list.

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening - updates
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 15 Feb 24 - 11:31 AM

Here's a response from Google to the pending end (2025) of Windows 10:

Worried about the impending demise of Windows 10? Google wants you to give ChromeOS Flex a try
Hello, Mr. Frying Pan, meet Mr. Fire

Google has weighed in on the controversy surrounding Microsoft's plans to render millions of Windows 10 PCs obsolete in 2025 by urging users to pop on a copy of ChromeOS Flex instead.

Trumpeting the "11 Ways You Win with ChromeOS Flex" (we see what you did there), Naveen Viswanatha, head of product for ChromeOS, laid out how ChromeOS is an excellent option for Windows 10 users faced with a choice of either throwing away their devices, opting for an unsupported future, or giving Microsoft extra cash to keep the patch taps turned on for longer.

Viswanatha was quick to point out that hundreds of millions of Windows 10 devices are destined for landfills if Microsoft has its way. Indeed, pressure groups have urged Microsoft to rethink its plans but, so far, to no avail. October 2025 is when the free support ends.

Google's take is that, rather than junk that old hardware, users could load ChromeOS Flex on it. ChromeOS Flex is a ChromeOS distribution that can be installed on conventional hardware. We tried it in 2022, and... it did not go well.

In Google's world, ChromeOS Flex is "built with security as a first principle, not an afterthought." The company claims that it doesn't even need antivirus software!

Read the rest at the link. There are lots of hotlinks in the text to supporting articles.

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening - updates
From: DaveRo
Date: 15 Feb 24 - 12:38 PM

Our Thinkpad L430 keeps keeps reminding me that it won't run Windows 11. So could I run ChromeOs Flex?

Yes! It's been Certified by Google!

And it will be supported by Google until ..... 2025.
Isn't that when Windows 10 support ends?

Subject: RE: Tech: Windows 10-what's happening - updates
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 15 Feb 24 - 01:05 PM

> The company claims that it doesn't even need antivirus
> software!

This sort of nonsense is trotted out every time something viewed as sufficiently new comes along, and the scum malware writers haven't had it in their hands for long enough to break into it. Wait a wee while, and there'll be a botnet based exclusively on ChromeOS Flex systems. This actually happened with MacOS: *that* botnet was found to include several hundred Macs inside Apple's HQ. Yet people at work *still* persisted in believing the urban myth that "Apple kit doesn't get malware" .... after all, they (or their grant sponsors) had paid Serious Money for it.

New types of systems don't get the *same* infections as existing ones, but new ones, tailored to the quirks and bugs in the newness. There's two sorts of computer users: those who think they can't possibly get hit, and those who've found they already have.