BS: Rudeness

Subject: Rudeness
From: Caitrin
Date: 04 Dec 99 - 10:56 AM

I directed a production of Arthur Miller's The Crucible for my school's winter production this year. Last night was opening night. If you are familiar with the play at all, you know that it is terribly tragic, with moments of high tension and emotion. However, during several times like these, we had audience members laughing. Some people talked throughout the first act. It was mostly the high school students at this show who were a problem, but I witnessed similar behavior from adults at a production of A Streetcar Named Desire last summer. This seriously disturbed me. What has happened to our society that people can't handle serious drama or even basic etiquette? The entire incident showed an utter lack of respect for the other audience members and the people onstage. Even if you don't understand what's happening onstage, you should at least have the good manners not to spoil it for other people by acting up. As my mother has told me many times, there is no excuse for rudeness.

Subject: RE: BS: Rudeness
From: Midchuck
Date: 04 Dec 99 - 11:21 AM

In a word: amplification.

The children born after the beginning of the rock era are now in middle age.

For their whole lives, they've been listening to live music at such volumes that you could yell at, much less talk to, the person next to you, and no one else would notice. They just have no idea how to act when any kind of live performance is at volumes below the pain threshold.

Go to some performance where the whole audience is in late middle age or older, and see if you don't notice a big difference.

Subject: RE: BS: Rudeness
From: Jeri
Date: 04 Dec 99 - 11:52 AM

I don't know about amplification, but recorded entertainment de-sensitises people. No one on a TV program or radio complains if you decide your conversation is more important than the show. Some people don't realise there's a difference between 'canned' and live entertainment.

I've noticed, along with an increase in rudeness, a decrease in others' willingness to do something sensible about it. Folks will do almost anything to avoid direct confrontation. People will spill drinks on folks, shoot spitballs, glare, or get up and leave - anything except ask the offenders to please quiet down. There's no excuse for rudeness, but we all do things that irritate others, and we're all imperfect. I would hope if I were doing something I wasn't aware was obnoxious (probably because I was lost in my own little world) someone would kindly point it out. I wouldn't have a problem with that. I would have a problem with someone avoiding conflict right up until they couldn't take it anymore and blew up at me. (This hasn't happened to me, but I've seen it happen gazillions of times.) It's an indiviual's responsibility to learn 'rules' of acceptable behaviour. It's society's responsibility to let individuals know what the rules are, and enforce them.

Subject: RE: BS: Rudeness
From: Mary in Kentucky
Date: 04 Dec 99 - 12:01 PM

I agree with Midchuck. I'm 50 and have routinely attended the opera with a dear friend who introduced me to it about 15 years ago. It's such a delight to sit in an older audience (at 50 we're some of the younguns) and actively listen to a performance. People keep their seats until the encores---if someone has to cough they leave---no one enters after the performance begins.

The horror stories really bother me...to the point where I attend any musical performance other than the opera with no expectations of hearing the music. 1) A couple was "makeing out" on the front row of a performance of "The Messiah" 2) An outdoor orchestra performance was drowned out by picnic revelers. 3) At a Judy Collins outdoor concert the people (and they were older) behind us talked so lound we couldn't hear. 4) And the worst---at a folk festival, the editor of our local newspaper was sitting behind me, and talked so much, I couldn't hear Jean Ritchie.

I don't handle these situations well. I can only give dirty looks and comment to others around me. But my friend will say something to the offenders like, "I came to hear this performer, please don't spoil it for me."...And it seems to work.

The answer probably should be some kind of education, but I don't know what. I've always felt that if McDonald's can teach us to clean up after ourselves, then we are trainable!

Subject: RE: BS: Rudeness
From: Chet W.
Date: 04 Dec 99 - 12:07 PM

One comment I get a lot when I play children's shows, which usually consist of me warming up the audience for a play by a local theater company, is that the kids come up afterward and say "I enjoyed the movie".

Chet

Subject: RE: BS: Rudeness
From: catspaw49
Date: 04 Dec 99 - 12:07 PM

Well since I just admitted to being rude, crude, and lewd somewhere else, I guess its too hypocritical of me to say I agree with Jeri. But I do. If I don't like the "whatever"...I either leave quietly or sit and endure. If others are annoying me, I try to point it out when they start instead of waiting til its become the norm. This has to do strictly with my respect for the performer and not out of any other feeling for the audience. I suppose I should feel for the audience, but I think my respect is for the performance alone. Its a very personal and individual thing when you are watching/listening.

spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Rudeness
From: WyoWoman
Date: 04 Dec 99 - 12:19 PM

There was a story on the newswires when "Schindler's List" was playing in theaters about it being shown to a bunch of high school kids who laughed and pointed and generally carried on during the scene in which the Nazis were making the women and girls run past them naked to decide who was "healthy" enough to live or die. Very dramatic moment, very painful, and these kids were making remarks about the women's bodies and so forth.

In the audience were a couple of people whose parents had died in the death camps and they were hugely distressed, as you might imagine. They found out what school these kids had come from (it was an organized school outing, so you'd think the teachers would have done some background work, but obviously they hadn't.) They went to the school and did a presentation to these kids, and the kids were absolutely astounded to know that these scenes were drawn from real life. And they were African American students, so the presentors drove the point home that there is a faction in this country that could easily see that fate befall black people.

It was supposedly a very moving scene, with the kids apologizing and really understanding something about human nature, both the angelic and demonic sides of us, for the first time.

Kids don't just spring full-blown in to well-behaved adults. If they have no training -- and they can only get this training if someone cares enough to do so and if they actually have the opportunity to see/hear live performances -- then they can only respond in the ways they know, which is that NOTHING is real, it's all a movie.

Score another one for the budget cuts that have taken music, art, theater and much of the humanities out of the curriculum.

WW

Subject: RE: BS: Rudeness
From: Neil Lowe
Date: 04 Dec 99 - 01:29 PM

....I am always grateful when someone nudges me at an event I find boring because my snoring is louder than the presentation. It keeps me from further embarrassment.

Regards, Neil

Subject: RE: BS: Rudeness
From: Caitrin
Date: 04 Dec 99 - 01:52 PM

I don't know about the middle-age or older thing. At the performance of Streetcar where the audience behaved so badly, the majority of them were in their 40s and over. My younger brother and I were virtually the only young people there. Spaw, I agree that people should have respect, first and foremost, for the performers. However, lots of people don't understand that. In that case, I would think that they would at least know better than to spoil the performance for others. I'm serving as House Manager tonight, so I'll take the suggestions offered here. If people talk, I'll ask them to quiet down. If that doesn't work, they'll be asked to leave.

Subject: RE: BS: Rudeness
From: sophocleese
Date: 04 Dec 99 - 01:55 PM

One of my friends in highschool was mortally embarassed when her father not only fell asleep during a televised performance of the choir she was in but while asleep fell out of his chair into the aisle. He needed nudging.

My father was a professor and became quite distressed in the last few years before he retired at how many of the students chatted during lectures. This seemd really silly to me, if I didn't like the lectures I skipped them.

Then again I went to see A Winter's Tale performed at Stratford and in the audience were 8 year-olds and retirees. The 8 year-olds were quieter. They also asked great questions at the end, "When you're up there can you understand what you're saying?"

Subject: RE: BS: Rudeness
From: AllisonA(Animaterra)
Date: 04 Dec 99 - 02:49 PM

I used to lead children's concerts in a town where the rudeness of the parents far exceeded that of the children. We finally invited the superintendent of schools to welcome everyone at the beginning of the concert, and to make firm, pointed reminders about concert etiquette, adding that anyone who failed to comply would be asked to leave, concluding that we all wanted to support and encourage our wonderful children in the arts as well as everywhere else. It worked wonders- too bad that man was driven out of town on a rail (for other reasons) by a short-sighted school committee.
Educate, communicate, and when necessary, spell out the expectations. This culture is so used to canned entertainment and the noisy crowds of the sports world that many of them really don't know what's expected!

Subject: RE: BS: Rudeness
From: Magpie
Date: 04 Dec 99 - 03:06 PM

I do agree that talking out loud, laughing, making out etc. is NOT good behaviour. It also seems that it's the younger people who more often than not are the "offenders", but not always. I took my son to the cinema a few months back, and during the show, a woman's cell phone rang. Did she turn it off? No. Did she tell the person calling her that she was busy and that she would phone him back? No. Did she leave the room to take the call? No. She actually talked. She chatted her way through three conversations on that phone. The kids sitting around her couldn't hear anything but her, the grown ups tried to hush her up, and none of us could believe that this was actually happening. AND THIS HAPPENED THREE TIMES during that show!

While I'm at it, I must confess that my mother and I tend to get sligtly giggly at the opera sometimes. There is something about fat, middle aged women impersonating young, innocent girls that makes me want to laugh. Especially when the hero is about half her size, and it it obvious to everyone there that he wouldn't be able to carry her over the threshold if his life depended on it.

I am terribly embarrassed about it, because I truly enjoy the opera, and I should be able to control myself! But I don't laugh out loud, I don't bring my cell phone, and I don't make out. (Especially not with my mother!) *BG*

Magpie

Subject: RE: BS: Rudeness
From: katlaughing
Date: 04 Dec 99 - 03:26 PM

Good points, Allison, WW, Spaw, and Jeri. Good for you Caitrin for preparing and telling them to be quiet or leave. That is what should have happened at your other performance.

I do NOT agree about the age thing. I ma under 50; my kids were all born on the tale end of the rock era, if there si such a thing, and we ALL know how to behave because we were taught to. Just like WW says, someone has to care enough to teach children and even some adults who are willing to learn the manners necessary for such events.

The movie talked? Someone should have asked management to tell her to leave OR made her pay for the ticket reimbursement of everyone around her.

kat

Subject: RE: BS: Rudeness
From: bseed(charleskratz)
Date: 04 Dec 99 - 03:29 PM

Magpie, that is incredible rudeness: and it's hard to believe that the woman didn't receive some physical threats from those around her. Most theaters these days, just before the start of the feature, project a short bit of film requesting the audience not to talk--and I think it is mostly respected, at least at the movies I attend. And--as I have mentioned here before--the culture of some venues is such that the audience is EXPECTED to refrain from talking during performances--and it works, even in a pub--the Starry Plough where I like to listen and sing is a great example. Some people come to drink and talk, but they are informed early on that during the songs, everyone is quiet--except for singing along on the choruses. The audience there is very mixed, but I would say the vast majority grew up in the age of amplified entertainment, yet manage to remain quiet to hear unamplified singers. If they don't, Shay Black and friends will escort them to the door, thank you.

--seed

Subject: RE: BS: Rudeness
From: bob schwarer
Date: 04 Dec 99 - 04:09 PM

Adult rudeness? Try Little League or one of the clones.

Subject: RE: BS: Rudeness
From: InOBU
Date: 04 Dec 99 - 04:11 PM

How to get revenge on the loud in a cultureally justifiable way...

Last Saturday, I was playing at a wee pub in New York, BB Doyles. Now, here we are, a banjo, guitar and myself on the Uilleann pipes, and their is this loud drunken woman at the bar, some twenty feet away, yelling so loudly that I have to put my head down to hear myself play a rather loud instrument. We are getting more and more annoyed and wishing Johnney Cronin were still alive to break fiddles over the heads of the loud, when a fellow comes up to us, and excuses himself, saying that he is a highland piper, and that if he werent in his cups and so overserved, hed go a few doors over to his house - get his pipes and teach the loud one a lesson. Well, I have to say, he was very in controll, for being in his cups, by his own account, so I insisted that he do just that, get his pipes and Id give him a back up on the ol bodhran. He came back in a few moments, and had some great hard reeds, loud LOUD I MEAN BLOODY GREAT and LOUD! Played the Athol Highlanders, first, cock of the north, all the tunes of glory! Right next to the biddy, and me on the other side of her. The eejit only tried to shout to her mates over the din, didnt get it at all, but, by the end of a good set, she was croakin - lost most of her volunme. God bless the piper and may he be as overserved as hed like. Larry Otway

Subject: RE: BS: Rudeness
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 04 Dec 99 - 04:30 PM

Great, Larry! I always thought the Scots marched into battle to the tune of bagpipes because they wouldn't hear the crack of the rifle shots over 'em.

Subject: RE: BS: Rudeness
From: skarpi
Date: 04 Dec 99 - 04:44 PM

Hallo all At last I am back after some time of lot of works. I was reading this tread, tell me what are people doing in a bar, watching a play or what ever if they can´t .............. you know.? Every first weekend In Agust here In Iceland,we have festival, well my band went there to play, we played on Friday and Saturdaynight and then It happens. We played from 23:00 - 03:00 well when had five minutes left oh I was taken of the stage and I mean taken, I flew of the stage with my guitar on my shoulder and down the floor landed on my back I didin´t do anything. Well I was so angry that I took all my stuff and went home, still we had to play on the day after but they did that without me. This Is Rudeness. P.S here In Iceland Is snowing and tomorrow It Is going to be very bad wheather with snow , lot of winds and cold. The wind Is going to be 30 meters pr.sek. So we are not going see a lot out the Windows. All the best to you all.

Subject: RE: BS: Rudeness
From: kendall
Date: 04 Dec 99 - 05:24 PM

I was seated in a movie, one of high drama, when directly behind me, someone was crunching potato chips, and crumpling the bag to the point where I wanted knock his thick head off..I turned, and it was a woman. I said in a fairly loud voice.."For Chrissake lady, what the hell are you doing? building a nest?" silence for the rest of the show. I believe that rude people dont deserve "friendly" comments. My good friend Dave Mallett (composer of The Garden Song) was doing a show at a local joint. They served food and beer, and the talk was quite loud at one table. Suddenly Dave stopped and said "Why did you pay to come here and talk? You could do that at home for free."

Subject: RE: BS: Rudeness
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 04 Dec 99 - 06:13 PM

Ironic that this should come up today, having been asked to leave a concert because my hyperactive daughter was trying to sit on four seats at once and started to yell when we held on to her.... Politeness is a learned thing, and I got really quite annoyed, especially as the performer asked us to leave, and didn't say a word to the person five seats down, who'd been stage whispering to her partner all through the first three numbers..... I agree that noisy people should be asked to quieten down or leave, but if that happens every where at every occasion, then how is the person, be they child or adult going to learn that their behaviour is antisocial and that this is the way it should be done.... Besides, that is his future audience he threw out, I guess I shan't be paying to see him again with my family.....

And one of the biggest concert venues in London, the famed and fabled Hammersmith Odeon (now the Labbats' or London Apollo) STILL has a policy of letting people in DURING performances.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Rudeness
From: poet
Date: 04 Dec 99 - 06:23 PM


I almost totally agree with the comments passed here thereis no excuse for rudeness during a performance and it should be stepped on immediately.
However I am not sure that the silence rule can or even should be applied in a puplic bar scenario which was implied in one of the posts.
after all some of the customers may be using the pub for a social evening unaware and uninterested in any musical event that may be happening and it is of course their right to enjoy the facilities as well as us. You may not agree with me about this you all seem to have more experience than I do.
I played last night in a small bar last night The Red Lion and we had a few regulars in who were not too chuffed about it, so rather than a confrontation we changed our set a little to include some of their favourite songs and we ended up having a very good evening.

Graham (Guernsey)

Subject: RE: BS: Rudeness
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 04 Dec 99 - 06:40 PM

I reckon it's mainly what Jeri said about people getting in the habit of talking through the telly.

And there's also the amazing way people can tune out completely sounds which aren't seen by them as relevant - you know the way - you're listening to some song or piece of music and really getting pulled in by it. And the person next to you turns to you and starts some conversation without any consciousness they're breaking into something thta's rally significant. And then you find ourself doing just the same on another occasion.

I think living in a world where we're being hit all the time by Muzak and other meaningless noise goes a long way to explain this kind of thing. If you paid attention to everything that's around you, you'd go crazy.

Most of the time when I'm singing it tends to be in pub sessions where it's fair enough that some of the people are there to talk with mates rather than to listen to som,eone singing, and it's fair enough that you have to put up with that. (And hope maybe that some neighbour is going to say "Would you shut up a minute - I'm listening to that fella singing"

But in concerts and public events there's a right to expect some silence. My experience is that folk audiences tend to be quite forceful in shutting up the noisy ones. People in Theatres and Cinemas tend to be a bit more embarrassed to ask for silence.

But when it comes to asking for silence, I don't think it's the right approach to come over sarky or sneery. Polite and direct, but making it clear that this isn't a request, it's a requirement, that seems much more apppropriate.

Subject: RE: BS: Rudeness
From: bseed(charleskratz)
Date: 04 Dec 99 - 07:38 PM

Graham and McGrath: The Starry Plough has these Irish sessions one night a week, and the house has rules, one of which is NO TALKING DURING THE SINGING. There is a crowd of regulars and semi-regulars who know and respect the rules: this crowd includes many of the serious drinkers, one of whom approached me after the first song I did there ("Johnny, I Hardly Knew Ye," accompanying myself on the banjo) and told me that he wished I was the whole program--but even he was quiet and respectful for the other singers, most of whom perform a capella.

For people who want to talk, it's accepted during the instrumental session--and, of course, before the session begins at 8 p.m. For those who can't abide by those strictures, Berkeley is full of other bars.

On the other hand, at Quinn's Lighthouse, I've ofthe found myself quite unable to make out the lyrics even when I'm sitting right in front of the band--most of the people in that part of the room want to hear the band (or throw the free peanuts at each other), but the room has a large rectangular area, like an elevator shaft, in the middle, seperating the bar from the music area, and the noise from the bar side often is quite loud, and the people in the other half, furthest from the band and largely unable to hear it, also talk--often loudly, probably no more than a dozen of the thirty or forty people on the floor have any idea what Skip Henderson or the other band members (including WintersWages of the Mudcat) are singing: with Skip this is a particular problem: he's a fine, very expressive singer but with limited volume so I have a lot of difficulty hearing him. Jim, the banjo player, projects a bit better, but the member who really gets the crowd going, Mordecai ben-Hershel, now lives in Hawaii and only occasionally appears.

I've strayed a bit from the subject here, but it is related to the subject of performers and audience relations, so I hope you'll forgive me.

--seed

Subject: RE: BS: Rudeness
From: WyoWoman
Date: 04 Dec 99 - 07:40 PM

Well, InOBU, that was a fine story. I sent it to a friend of mine who's also a piper.

And I agree that the first "ask" whether from a performer or member of the audience ought to be polite. (Then, nail 'em...)

ww

Subject: RE: BS: Rudeness
From: kendall
Date: 04 Dec 99 - 09:27 PM

My friend Glenn Jenks tells about a rowdy drunk who was being a pain in the ass at his show. At the break, he said to the bar tender "Can you put that guy out?" to which, the bar tender replied "I believe I can." He served the guy a large glass of straight whiskey, and in a short time, the drunk was out, face down on his table.

Subject: RE: BS: Rudeness
From: MichaelM
Date: 05 Dec 99 - 12:13 AM

I have had some odd experiences in theatre with noisy people. We got used to things running slow on Seniors Night when we always had pairs (usually female) one of whom was profoundly deaf. The other would have to shout the dialogue ("HE SAID HE LOVES HER AND THEY SHOULD SNEAK AWAY") into the ear of her hearing impaired friend. It's quite entertaining to hear Shakespeare given a one line precis at the end of your speech. The other was to hear people who verbalized their responses to action on stage. They would blurt out "Oh, that's not right" and yell "Run!" at the hapless victim. Somehow I felt better knowing we were absolutely drawing those people in. And at risk of alienating you Liz I feel the performer was correct in asking you to leave until your daughter was more under self-control. I have no knowledge of the difficulties of raising a hyper-active child but as a performer I have an obligation to my audience not to waste any of that most precious gift: their time. I hope that a lesson might have been learned re the antisocial behaviour; namely that it will not be tolerated. I also think that anyone who is removed from a concert because of these type of problems should get their money back. I have been toying with the idea of having an opening early set of more participatory child-oriented songs because of the parenting obligations of some of my friends. How can I get my 6-year old niece interested in live music when the music gets underway an hour after she flakes out? Her parents are always keeping an eye on the babysitting meter when they're out by themselves.

Back to the topic. I think a greater role should be expected of both the performers and the club management in the handling of noisy patrons.

Michael

Subject: RE: BS: Rudeness
From: Michael K.
Date: 05 Dec 99 - 12:47 AM

For me it has gotten to the point that I will not go to a movie theatre to see ANY movie, no matter how much I'd like to see it on the ''Big Screen" and with THX Dolby surround sound - not to mention the ridiculous cost of admission coupled with the exhorbitant cost of a drink and a buttered popcorn.

I simply cannot handle any kind of talking around me when I am trying to immerse myself and ''escape'' into the story of what is unfolding onscreen. People just don't realize how ignorant they are. It's like when you're driving somewhere and someone blatantly cuts you off (always without signaling), you honk your horn and they swear at you, honk back even more agressively or give you the finger because it's your fault - that you happened to be in the space they needed at that moment...You know the kind of indignation I'm talking about here.....Same difference for me when I go to a theater.

So I bought a 60 inch big screen set, and a complete home theatre surround system, and it's wonderful. I won't rent anything unless the sound track is in surround. Best thing is, I can focus on what I'm watching, replay a favourite seen over and over, pause it and get up to grab a munchable - and, smoke.

Subject: RE: BS: Rudeness
From: kendall
Date: 05 Dec 99 - 09:11 AM

BRAVO MICHAEL!!! I'm with you. I was taught to respect the rights of others. One of those rights is to be able to enjoy a movie without being forced to listen to some ignoramus producing static. I recently went into a restaurant, and was immediatly struck by that god damned racket that passes for music these days. I asked if they would turn it down, and the hostess said "We dont have any control over it." I said "I do" and walked out." she called out. "Have a nice day." I replied "I can now."

Lets face it,,there are places that children just shouldn't be. I've seen small children screeming in fright at Epcots dinosaurs. I've seen them screeming from exhaustion in countless stores, and wondered what the hell is that mother thinking? One of my daughters once asked "Why do mothers bring their kids to the K-Mart to beat them?"

Subject: Lyr Add: THE JACK DEMPSEY'S PARTIN' GLASS
From: InOBU
Date: 05 Dec 99 - 10:31 AM

Another rudeness story and a song, if you sing it, please acknowledge the fact it was written my myself, Larry Otway...
I have to say, it came out of an event where pool players were shouting during singing, and when I invited them to shout and make noise during celi tunes, and not the singing, it led to a near fist fight. The bar was, at first less than helpful, however, they did come round very nicely and changed the room for the session. However, after being held out as the aggressor for telling pool players to keep the noise down, I left the bar, returning an hour latter with the following, it can be sung to the tune of England’s Motorway.. (remember lad he’s still your dad though he’s working far away)...
So in fairness, Jack Dempsey’s is trying to be ballad friendly. But the song expresses some modern truths, I hope... remember if you sing this to raise a glass to my dad, a miner, singer and novelist, and a union man, who sang in the most improbable places while alive and sinning.

THE JACK DEMPSEY’S PARTIN’ GLASS

Dad, why don’t you sing a song, the way you used to do,
When grand daddy was still alive, and playin’ along with you
Those song you sung, I miss so much
I wish I’d learned them all,
It been so long since I heard you sing, I barely can recall

I’m sorry son, in this ol’ pub, its just too bloody loud
They’ve got a new pool table and they’ve got a different crowd
The fellas who stop in here now, are the new working class
A workin’ at computers all day sit-in on their ass

They aren’t good honest miners like your grand daddy and me,
I don’t expect that the most of em, ever toiled upon the sea,
They never fought the workers fight, they never faced the gun
That the bosses used to try and make us fear and run

I think their heads are filled with junk, like micro circuitry
Ah son the world has gone to hell, it’s just a misery
And if the pool is not enough, there’s the bloody ol’ TV
With so many yaboos now, there’s no room for you and me

And when the yaboos want some fun, they play their bloody noise
Shovin’ all them hard earned bills in the juke box brilliant boys
That’s why pub owners love them so, cause when they want to dance
The silver and the paper bills come pouring out their pants.

It was not very long ago, there was a drink for free
For the ones who brought the tunes a pub like Jack Dempsey
But now we treated just the same, as the fellas at the bar
And the loudmouth pool players, they are treated best by far

And if you ever want to know just how this came to be
Remember that the unions came, from singers just like me
But union folk don’t own the pubs or program the TV
Corporate culture’s meant to keep you dumb as dumb can be.

HTML line breaks added --JoeClone, 20-Nov-01.

Subject: RE: BS: Rudeness
From: Art Thieme
Date: 05 Dec 99 - 11:54 AM

On occasion if there were loud people in the audience I'd get close into the mike and address the loudest of the bunch saying, "PARDON ME---CAN YOU HEAR ME???" The person would answer , "Yes." Then I'd say, "I figured---'cause I can sure hear you." Ususally, but not always, the noise quieted down.

Art Thieme

Subject: RE: BS: Rudeness
From: Midchuck
Date: 05 Dec 99 - 12:42 PM

Many years ago friends of mine sang as a husband-and-wife duet, and did a lot of bar gigs in the ski country. To say that their songs didn't get listened to as they deserved is the grossest understatement.

When they finished on the noisiest nights, the wife liked to smile charmingly and say into the mike, very sincerely, "F*** you, f*** you Very much!" Only those few of us who were really listening ever caught it.

Subject: RE: BS: Rudeness
From: Caitrin
Date: 05 Dec 99 - 12:59 PM

Well, just to update... Last night, I did a quick "Usher Orientation", authorizing them to eject people who couldn't behave. It turned out, however, that merely asking people to be quiet worked pretty well. Our only problem was the jerk with the laser pointer, and he was removed with little difficulty by one of our larger and more imposing looking ushers between acts. As to small children, the hard part is determining what sort of performance environment is appropriate. For instance, someone brought a three year old to The Crucible. This play really isn't appropriate for little kids...it's quite long and deals with difficult themes. However, some shorter concerts and such are good behavior training, as long as the kid has at least some degree of self-control.

Subject: RE: BS: Rudeness
From: bseed(charleskratz)
Date: 05 Dec 99 - 01:18 PM

Good work, Caitrin: both in getting your audience under control (your work as director certainly helped as well--the request would have kept people quiet only until they started getting bored) and in starting this thread.

--seed

Subject: RE: BS: Rudeness
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 05 Dec 99 - 01:20 PM

Bless you Michael and Kendall, you are truly FINE human beings! I LOATHE people who make noise during movies. Haven't been to a theatre in years. Always rent. Now if I was only as responsible as you Mike, and bought that 60 inch screen instead of dozens of musical toys...maybe I still will!
It drives me BANANAS when people talk at a folk venue. Not a pub, I figures that youse play in de bars you're playin' by THEIR rules. Nope I mean in folk clubs and concerts. I guess it's strictly my problem cause I'm a fanatic about the music I like, and I'll never just sit in a place with music as background. Truly though, rude audiences bring out the evil twin that resides in me, and I assure you it makes Gargoyle look like Mary Poppins. The only problem is I'm not a fighter and I've been seriously rude to chatters on occasion, perhaps risking my safety. Kinda glad that doesn't happen anymore, but it's given me an idea for a thread....hmmm.
Rick

Subject: RE: BS: Rudeness
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 05 Dec 99 - 01:21 PM

One time I was singing in a place with PA. Great, I think, they can turn up the volume, and I'll drown out the chat.

So I'm going along fine, with the volume hiked up to drown the chatty pair on the front table. Then I pause for effect (or maybe I was trying to remember the next line), and I stop playing as part of the pause, and of course the chatty pair by this time are bellowing out to try to hear each other over the noise, and there they are bellowing out into the silence.

Now the punchline on that ought to be that they looked horribly embarassed, and were silent from then on. But they didn't even notice. And all my dramatic effect was totally buggered.

So the technical fix doesn't really work. Nor having a loud voice, which is nature's technical fix. Having a friend out there with a mean and vicious look to throw at people might be the best way. One thing I've noticed with sessions back in Ireland I've been to is that no matter how loud the noise, as soon as anyone with a small voice starts singing a song in Irish the whole place is bellowed into silence within seconds.

Subject: RE: BS: Rudeness
From: InOBU
Date: 05 Dec 99 - 01:30 PM

Sorry folks: The breaks in the lines for the above song, did not translate into this format, the partin glass is the title, and it begins with the next line, and, if there is any interst Ill repost with breaks in the lines so you can figure it out better... Larry

Subject: RE: BS: Rudeness
From: Mudjack
Date: 05 Dec 99 - 01:55 PM

Anyone who has a venue should always make it clear these performers need quiet attentitive audiences, those who wish to converse wre welcome to step out into the lobby or next room so as not to disrupt the performers.
The stage director or MC for the event has a duty and obligation to control any rude situations. The performer(s) should'nt have to bare that
I once had a freind explain to me the PA can work for you in a situation by cutting it's volume to a minimum setting.
And the better line from a audience member to the rude dudes was, "HEY, this aint no DISCO, take it down the street". They got quiet and left at the break.
Mudjack

Subject: RE: BS: Rudeness
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 05 Dec 99 - 02:07 PM

When someone is talking behind me at a theatre, my favorite approach is to turn around, smile, and say "Would you mind speaking up? The movie's so loud I can barely hear you."

Subject: RE: BS: Rudeness
From: kendall
Date: 05 Dec 99 - 02:59 PM

that's great Lonesome..just my kind of sarcasm. The hell of it is, it only works on people who have at least a teaspoon full of brains.

Subject: RE: BS: Rudeness
From: katlaughing
Date: 05 Dec 99 - 03:07 PM

One nice thing about Casper, Wyoming is that it has two beautiful old Art Deco movie theatres, the Rialto and the America, downtown, which have been renovated and upgraded with new screens, surround sound and new seats. They still only cost $2 & $3 for matinees and evening shows.

Northampton, MA had an old one, the Calvin (after Pres. Coolidge), same thing.

I love going to the old theatres and would NEVER let yakkity people keep me away. I'll call on mgmt or tell them to shut up myself. Sorry, guys, watching a movie at home no matter the screen size, would never be as fun for me.

kat

Subject: RE: BS: Rudeness
From: Little Neophyte
Date: 05 Dec 99 - 03:31 PM

"Just a spoon full of brains, makes the intelligence go down"...........Kendall isn't that part of a famous song?

No more theatres hugh.
Well what about the red licorice and hot popcorn. It just doesn't taste the same in your own living room.
What about a good options for dating.
What about holding someone's hand in a theatre. That's kind of nice too.

BB

Subject: RE: BS: Rudeness
From: WyoWoman
Date: 05 Dec 99 - 04:42 PM

Years ago, I was the executive director for a statewide community theater organization. Part of the board of directors' duty was to visit the theaters in the state every so often to show support for our membership and to give workshops on various aspects of theater.

Problem was, our board chairwoman was most often drunk for most of these events, and the duty of at least one of the other board members was to babysit Mrs. W.

This one particular visit was to one of the larger community theaters out in the western part of the state. They didn't receive such visits very often and were completely honored that WE were to be their guests that night. They had chosen a lovely piece, "The Glass Menagerie" to show us their dramatic talents.

We arrived from dinner just a few minutes before curtain and Mrs. W, true to form, was already plastered. So one of the men on the board took her arm and firmly escorted her down the aisle and she settled blearily into her seat, whereupon she instantly fell asleep. Loudly fell asleep, snoring at many decibels through the first 15 minutes or so of the play.

Finally I, the lone paid staffer, could no longer stand her rudeness. I reached across two other people, took her wrist in my hand and gave it a little shake to urge her to wake up. Which she did, at a particularly quiet and thoughtful moment in the play.

Straightening up a bit, she peered out at the stage through her one opened eye, drawing a bead on the two characters quietly conversing onstage. And she bellowed, "WHO ARE THOSE ASSHOLES ANYWAY?????"

I wanted to crawl up the aisle on my belly and leave by a back door.

WW

Subject: RE: BS: Rudeness
From: MAG (inactive)
Date: 05 Dec 99 - 04:50 PM

Problem with rentals movies is the way they are cropped; "Like Water for Chocolate" cropped Jon's grandmother completely out in two spots on the video. Andthe THX sound is awfully nice. I have to drive 60 miles to get it, and I don't go just for that, but it is nice. and the ushers do come after disruptive anything, which I certainly appreciate. Kendall, I'm with you on Muzak. I just don't go in; life is too short.

Subject: RE: BS: Rudeness
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 05 Dec 99 - 05:51 PM

Wyo, that was a good one! LMAOROTF or whatever the friggin acronym is...

Subject: RE: BS: Rudeness
From: katlaughing
Date: 05 Dec 99 - 06:50 PM

A MOMENTOUS DAY FOR ME!! PLEASE NOTE: My dyslexic fingers must be getting better! For once I notice NO typos in my above post which I didn't even "proffread", as PeterT. puts it! Whoo-Hoo!!

Subject: RE: BS: Rudeness
From: kendall
Date: 05 Dec 99 - 07:31 PM

proffread?

Subject: RE: BS: Rudeness
From: bseed(charleskratz)
Date: 05 Dec 99 - 07:55 PM

profreed.

or is it proefrede

or maybe proughfreed

c'mon, Peter, gimme some help here.

Kendall, any time Peter T. catches himself in an error just after posting, he corrects the error and reminds himself to proofread (intentionally misspelling which he does as humor, to justify posting twice in a row, or maybe the boob just don't know how to spell it. Heh,heh.

--seed

Subject: RE: BS: Rudeness
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 05 Dec 99 - 08:06 PM

Post the song again, InoBu(with BR and < and > at the end of the lines). I got dizzy trying to work out the line endings.

Sarcasm doesn't work with me. Got too much of it at school, and it makes me switch into dumb insolance mode.

If you ask me to shut up politely, I'll certainly do it. Ask me to shut up rudely, and I'll probably do it. Ask me to speak up, and that's exactly what I'll do.

Subject: RE: BS: Rudeness
From: Caitrin
Date: 05 Dec 99 - 08:35 PM

As my grandmother is fond of saying, "You catch more flies with honey than you do with vinegar." My response is usually, "I don't want to catch any flies; I'd rather just swat them." However, Granny's usually right about such things. When I can keep my temper under control, I try to take the polite route first. Fewer knife fights occur that way.

Subject: Lyr Add: THE JACK DEMPSEY'S PARTIN' GLASS
From: InOBU
Date: 05 Dec 99 - 08:50 PM

Thanks for the tip, I'll try it, hope this works, being a Luddite, I am not completely computer literate, (no cracks about my spelling and the other kind of literacy, please!

The Jack Dempsey's Partin' Glass
Dad, why don't you sing a song, the way you used to do,
when granddaddy was still alive and playin' along with you
those songs you sung, I miss so much I wish I'd learned them all,
it's been so long since I heard you sing, I barely can recall
I'm sorry son, in this ol' pub, it's just too bloody loud
they've got a new pool table and they've got a different crowd
The fellas who stop in here now, are the new working class
a-workin' at computers all day sittin' on their ass
They aren't good honest miners like your granddaddy and me,
I don't expect that the most of em ever toiled upon the sea,
they never fought the workers' fight, they never faced the gun
that the bosses used to try and make us fear and run
I think their heads are filled with junk, like micro-circuitry
ah, son, the world has gone to hell, it's just a misery
and if the pool is not enough, there's the bloody ol' TV
with so many yaboos now, there's no room for you and me
and when the yaboos want some fun, they play their bloody noise
shovin' all them hard-earned bills in the jukebox, brilliant boys
that's why pub owners love them so, cause when they want to dance
the silver and the paper bills come pouring out their pants.
It was not very long ago, there was a drink for free
for the ones who brought the tunes to a pub like Jack Dempsey
But now we're treated just the same as the fellas at the bar
and the loudmouth pool players, they are treated best by far
And if you ever want to know just how this came to be
remember that the unions came, from singers just like me
But union folk don't own the pubs or program the TV
corporate culture's meant to keep you dumb as dumb can be.

Thanks again
Larry

Line Breaks
added.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: BS: Rudeness
From: Joan
Date: 05 Dec 99 - 09:02 PM

A noisy group in the room who aren't there for the music? Bars are nearly impossible to control since the management would much rather have people be rowdy and imbibing rather than sitting quietly, listening to songs--they're not going to ask anyone to pipe down. So you stare into the cluster that's generating the main noise, and they either never notice they're being eyeballed, or are fully aware, and stare back insolently. Tough gigs, are bars, unless you have someone performing with a BIG voice, and an audience that is familiar with the singer and his/her repertoire.

Folk clubs in the UK are nearly always above, below, or along side of pubs, but the folk audiences come to listen and sing, mostly, stepping out politely for the occasional pint--and remembering why they came to begin with. In the US, there's likely coffee and cookies, and people come to listen and participate if possible. Luxurious.

I love some of the comebacks here so much I almost wish I still had the opportunity let some fly.

Subject: RE: BS: Rudeness
From: InOBU
Date: 06 Dec 99 - 08:18 AM

One more come back... There was a very fine singer, on the night which led to my composing the Jack Dempseys Parting Glass... she had just finished singing the Gartin Mothers Lullaby,... Sleep o Babe for the Red Bee Hums, the silent twilight falls... Beautiful, save for the loud mouth pool player screaming throughout, the only loud voice in an otherwize slienced room, and the fool was shouting to show his complete disreguard for the singer and everyone else in the pub - excuse me, in that instance - in the BAR. So, after she finished there was applause, a moment of hush, and I said, in a voice to match the pool player, Well, it goes to show you, a fine singer is a rare pleasure, as opposed to a loud mouth drunken Yabo, who are unfortunately common.

Subject: RE: BS: Rudeness
From: Little Neophyte
Date: 06 Dec 99 - 08:50 AM

Good Morning Larry
My Misto!
You may not be computer literate but you sure can come up with meestow, meestow poems.
Got any poems about the work you do? I'm very interested in what you are doing for the natives.
How do you say......you have a great gift?
How do you say......you are such a gift?
Hope today brings you baxthao sastimos.
Take care,
Bonnie

I'm not one for quick come backs when someone is making me mad.
I never feel good about it in the end.

Subject: RE: BS: Rudeness
From: Blackcat2
Date: 06 Dec 99 - 10:36 AM

Greetings all

I've always got a kick out of that phrase - "you get more flies with honey that with vinegar" My attitude usually is that manure works even better (and to be honest, who in the hell wants to attract flies anyhow?)

A few years ago my girldfriend and I were in a movie and there was a couple, probably in their 60s or so a couple rows behind us. They kept talking on and off. The theatre was mostly empty, so we could have moved but I dislike other people dictating my life. I first "Shushed" them. they started talking again. my girl friend turned around and told them to be quiet. They began talking a few minutes later (the converstation seemed to be that the woman was having dificulty understanding the plot (I never got the feeling she was hard of hearing) Finally, I got up and walked around to them and leaned over and gently said - "If you both don't shut up, I'm going to rip your balls off and feed them to her."

That is by far the most brutal thing I've ever said - and I still regret it to some extent, but they got the message.

Subject: RE: BS: Rudeness
From: Peter T.
Date: 06 Dec 99 - 12:13 PM

Always profreed. (copirite, Peter T., 1999).
I hate seeing movies on video, as I have always loved big black and white and colour movies (video cannot capture the beautiful light of a good 35mm print), but the talking has become so bad that I have evolved a pretty good strategy. I always go to movies that I want to see on the last Thursday afternoon before they are replaced. I am almost invariably the only person in the theatre. If there are other patrons who are talking, I can always move 100 feet away somwhere.
However, this does take away from the "common ambience" feeling of a good film with a large audience, especially comedies. I have a technical solution, which I am prepared to sell to someone. The idea is to provide everyone with headphones, and to have microphones that pick up the general audience sound, and feed those into the headphones with the soundtrack. You would then lose the sound of idiots nearby, and get the audience reaction as well. Brilliant? I think so.

yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: BS: Rudeness
From: Little Neophyte
Date: 06 Dec 99 - 12:18 PM

Well Peter T. I'll have to remember that.
Your idea about seeing movies when the theatre is empty sounds like good advice for someone who has gas.

Bonnie RD

Subject: RE: BS: Rudeness
From: InOBU
Date: 06 Dec 99 - 01:25 PM

It is good to see Romaness posted on line Bonnie, good to see a proud Romni. Ill post a song for you I wrote about the Canadian Reservation Schools - see the upcoming post Yvettes Song... Nyes Tuka, hai Baxtalay to all Larry

Subject: RE: BS: Rudeness
From: kendall
Date: 06 Dec 99 - 02:37 PM

I'm curious Black cat 2 to know if that had been a pair of Hells Angels..would your threat be worded the same way?

A few years ago, an old man was walking down the street in NY city. A pair of young thugs decided to mug him. Bad idea, he kicked 9 kinds of shit out of them. They had no way of knowing that their "victim" was Battling Nelson, former lightweight champion of the world. true story.

Subject: RE: BS: Rudeness
From: Mary
Date: 06 Dec 99 - 02:50 PM

You're a hero for threatening senior citizens Blackcat. Was your girlfriend impressed?

Subject: Rudeness
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 06 Dec 99 - 03:38 PM

Yer grandmother used to say "you get more flies with honey that with vinegar"?

I kinda prefer what Al Capone used to say "You get farther with a gun and a kind word than with just a gun"

I'm lucky in that the 2 local pub venues I play are sorta prime for performers... One is an old converted house, the musician in the 'living room'.. if folks don't like it, they get invited to shift and give the seats to people who'd like to sit that close... The other is a large downtown Irish theme bar... the upstairs has stage, lights, monitors, ect.. so if the crowd is too loud, we can always win by turning it up! And by heaping abuse on the offenders! LOL!

Re: the cell phone blight... I see on the news yesterday that places in New York are delairing themselves Cell Phone Free (no exceptions) and I couldn't be happier... Why anyone needs to be INTOUCH 24/7 is beyond me... I can understand doctors maybe... But joe-blow doesn't need it... I laugh at people who bring them to the pub... Tell them, "See, that why I came here, so people CAN'T call me" Besides, they give ya brain cancer anyway! ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Rudeness
From: lamarca
Date: 06 Dec 99 - 03:42 PM

When I was in high school in central Wisconsin, we took a class trip to Minneapolis to see a Guthrie Theater production of Euripides' "Oedipus Rex". It was a new translation/production done by Anthony Burgess (of Clockwork Orange and Napoleon Symphony fame), and starred Len Cariou in the lead role.

It was a weekday matinee, full of high school kids from lots of class trips. Some kids were reacting in typical adolescent fashion to the sexual and violent aspects of the play, talking and giggling. Cariou came down to the front of the stage, still in character, and gave a long, slow sweeping glare at the audience, without saying a word. And the crowd shut up.

It was one of the best and most frightening pieces of live theater I've ever seen in my life.

Subject: RE: BS: Rudeness
From: Little Neophyte
Date: 06 Dec 99 - 06:56 PM

Clinton, how true. I tend to always give a kind word and at the same time carry a deadly weapon for back-up.

My sister (who constantly needs me) tried to buy me a cell phone for my birthday. I said "Sherry really, who are you buying that phone for, me or you?"

Banjo Bonnie

Subject: RE: BS: Rudeness
From: InOBU
Date: 06 Dec 99 - 07:07 PM

Thanks for the line Breaks Joe Larry

Subject: RE: BS: Rudeness
From: Duckboots
Date: 07 Dec 99 - 03:33 PM

So you terrorized an elderly man with an infirm wife, Blackcat? Brave man.

Difficulties with hearing aren't the only invisible afflictions to affect the elderly. My mother was stricken with Alzheimers in her late fifties although for many years no-one outside her family would have realised that there was anything wrong with her.

My father, being loving and loyal, wanted my mother to have quality of life and get as much enjoyment as she could. He took her to all the places and events he knew she would enjoy and, along the way, he was helped by many kind and compassionate strangers. I'm sure this has made a big difference in mother's life.

If he'd taken her to the movies, she would have been able to see and hear it but not necessarily process the information quickly enough to follow the story. Dad would have helped her along with some commentary. I can only imagine how they would have felt if someone physically threatened them - and be thankful that no-one did.

Duckboots

Subject: RE: BS: Rudeness
From: Caitrin
Date: 07 Dec 99 - 04:51 PM

Blackcat, that's just really rather silly. It's what is generally known as cutting off your nose to spite your face. Not to mention, staying where you were (something you obviously didn't enjoy) just to prevent the couple behind you from dictating your life was letting them dictate your life as much as moving would.

Subject: RE: BS: Rudeness
From: MMario
Date: 07 Dec 99 - 04:55 PM

I'm glad someone finally said it. I was about to gnaw through my toungue....

Subject: RE: BS: Rudeness
From: kendall
Date: 07 Dec 99 - 04:55 PM

are you pulling our legs? I cant believe you or anyone would say such a thing..come now, fess up..you were just trying to rile the waters, right?

Subject: RE: BS: Rudeness
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 07 Dec 99 - 05:20 PM

Hmmmm, interesting. The fact that you were annoyed Mr. Cat, I can relate to. The problem to me is when you say that moving a few seats away equates with "dictating your life". Makes me wonder just how quickly you get annoyed. Fortunately your girlfriend doesn't seem to have a problem with that attitude. Truthfully though, what was her reaction to the "stuffing his balls....." comment. Couldn't you have let them know in other less graphic terms how annoyed you were? You're in the soup anyway, so come on back and elaborate......or I'll cut your.....!"
Rick (who won't even go to theatres anymore!)

Subject: RE: BS: Rudeness
From: Little Neophyte
Date: 07 Dec 99 - 05:32 PM

Hi Duckboots, good to see your posting.

You have got a point there Duckyboots. When I take my grandmother to a movie I've often had to explain parts of the scene to her or she'd be lost. Her hearing isn't so great, so when I do this, I'm not too quiet. People around me seem to understand. At least no one has tried to rip off a piece of my anatomy and feed it to Grama Marge

BB

Subject: RE: BS: Rudeness
From: Wesley S
Date: 07 Dec 99 - 06:00 PM

I've recently figured out that if you sit in the last row of the theater that no one is able to sit behind you and talk. And at 48 I'm able to see the screen better as well.

Subject: RE: BS: Rudeness
From: Little Neophyte
Date: 07 Dec 99 - 06:04 PM

It's also more fun to smooch back there.

Subject: RE: BS: Rudeness
From: kendall
Date: 07 Dec 99 - 08:32 PM

smooch if you must, but, keep it down. My ex wife used to have trouble understanding what was being said although there was nothing wrong with her hearing, so, she would ask "What did he/she say?" I got annoyed with her for this, and finally I said "Look, while I'm explaining what just happened, we are BOTH missing what IS happening." That, she understood.

Subject: RE: BS: Rudeness
From: catspaw49
Date: 07 Dec 99 - 08:46 PM

Tell ya what Blackcat.....if I had done anything like you did, Karen would have stuffed MY BALLS etc............I get annoyed with a lot of crap, but even I have a modicum of tolerance for the elderly and for kids too.

And now that everybody has jumped your ass, c'mon back and hang with us ol farts

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Rudeness
From: Caitrin
Date: 09 Dec 99 - 09:51 PM

I worked in the Carmike 12 here this summer...smoochin' ain't the half of what some people are doing back there. My goodness.
The worst thing at the movie theater was not rudeness in the actual theaters, but rudeness by the customers at the concession stands. I had someone get really nasty with me about the fact that the Frostys were out, not like I could do anything about it. People just seem to show an utter lack of respect for each other sometimes.

Subject: RE: BS: Rudeness
From: McKnees
Date: 10 Dec 99 - 08:15 PM

It is a pity that Black cat is not in Scotland as I could then charge him with the Crime of Assault, by threats. McKnees

Subject: RE: BS: Rudeness
From: Duckboots
Date: 10 Dec 99 - 10:03 PM

So, if someone threatens you, doesn't touch you but just verbally threatens to hurt you, that person can be charged under Scottish law? I must admit I didn't know that. What are guidelines for laying a charge?

I believe that here, Canada, verbal threats don't constitute an assault. There have many cases where women have asked for police help against spouses who have been threatening and stalking them. It seems that no matter how serious the abuse or harrassment is, the police can't do anything until a person is physically hurt, or worse.

Duckboots

Subject: RE: BS: Rudeness
From: McKnees
Date: 11 Dec 99 - 02:16 AM

Hi Duckboots, you'll be pleased to know that stalking in Scotland is also a crime, along with many aspects of domestic violence. Although we do have a rule that says you need corroboration, two sources of evidence. But since Blackcat had the stupidity to do it in the presence of two witnesses all they would have to do is to report it to the police and give statements. As for the domestic situation it is slightly different so that the man or woman, yes it does happen, does not need another person there. Everyone has rights. McKnees

Subject: RE: BS: Rudeness
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 11 Dec 99 - 12:56 PM

Hmmmm, interesting. Problem over here is that ANY piece of legislation that might help protect a crime victim, is immediately seen as trampling on the rights of the perpetrator. The defenders of people who do exceptionally bad things are legion. It creates ink and soundbytes for lawyers and organizations needing publicity. A woman (or man, I guess) here can be stalked and terrorized for years with virtually no recourse. (until she's actually been killed). My guess is that a case oftwo elderly people, sworn at and humiliated in a theatre, would be laughed out of court.
Rick

Subject: RE: BS: Rudeness
From: kendall
Date: 11 Dec 99 - 01:14 PM

in the USA, there are degrees of assault. Swearing at someone, threatning to harm them is simple assault. To hit someone or grab them and muscle them around, is assault and battery. To hit them with a weapon, bat, rock, etc is aggrievated assault. (And, contrary to popular thought, it does not mean that you aggrievated the perpetrator). If that couple had gone to the police and insisted on signing a complaint, they would have no choice but to arrest the subject. The problem with misdemeanors, is that the warrant must be signed by an eye witness. If the cop didn't see it, he cant sign the warrant. Thats why so many cases of domestic violence never go to court, the victim refuses to sign out of fear of retaliation. Anyway, it could have been worse.. it might have been me that he threatened.

Subject: RE: BS: Rudeness
From: bseed(charleskratz)
Date: 11 Dec 99 - 01:22 PM

Actually, in law in the U.S., believable threats ARE assault. With actual physical attack, they become aggravated assault. Simple assault is a misdemeanor, most places--but is none-the-less punishable by law; aggravated assault is usually a felony but is usually plea bargained down to simple assault. Even simple assault can result in parole or probation violation and imprisonment.

I agree with Rick that violent offenders ought to do time; the only problem is that jails and prisons are full of non-violent offenders: zero tolerance laws make smoking a joint worse than murder in some states. And then there are the forfeiture laws: someone gets busted for toking up at your house, you can lose your house.

--seed

Subject: RE: BS: Rudeness
From: wildlone
Date: 11 Dec 99 - 01:29 PM

somone once called my mother an old bitch in the street,
I grabbed him by the throat and threatened to put his head through the nearest wall.

Subject: RE: BS: Rudeness
From: Duckboots
Date: 11 Dec 99 - 01:46 PM

So, if I've read the previous posts correctly, Wildone you could have been charged with aggravated assault while the 'someone' would have been charged with simple assault.

People can be very viscious in what they say to complete strangers, I don't understand it at all. This 'someone' would no doubt have been just as upset as you if a third person had insulted his mother, so why would he think it okay to say that to your mother?

I think if any book influenced me it was Charles Kingsley's "The Waterbabies". I remember our teacher reading it to us in school, that's how young we were, and being quite impressed with Mrs Do-As-You-Would-Be-Done-By. If you think about how you would yourself and loved ones treated by others, it's much easier to apply tolerance and consideration.

Duckboots

Subject: RE: BS: Rudeness
From: AnTirKitten
Date: 11 Dec 99 - 02:30 PM

On the subject of kids with ADHD and theatres. (Not even gonna touch the assault debate, folks). My 8 year old stepson has severe ADHD. He is on medication. I have it too, though I have never needed meds for it. One thing that I have found helpful in dealing with this in public places is to have a long talk beforehand stating exactly what the appropriate behaviour will be (and rewards for it) and what will be considered unacceptable behaviour (and the accompanying punishment.) Repeat this talk several times if need be, depending on attention span/memory/etc of child in question. I have found that this tends to minimize misbehaviour greatly.

And as for audiences :) I busk a lot so you can imagine what I put up with (for fun, I might add *lol*) and my other performing outlet is thru a medieval recreation society where Bards do receive appropriate respect and I have seen audiences ranging in age from babes in arms to elderly folks listening intently. No reminders. Everyone knows what's expected of them in that scenario. (And for the hard of hearing most performers, myself included, are usually more than happy to explain the piece AFTER the performance :) )

Cat in BC

Subject: RE: BS: Rudeness
From: wildlone
Date: 11 Dec 99 - 04:20 PM

If I had done it I could have been charged with defacing a listed building as well, the wall belonged to a 16cent pub

Subject: RE: BS: Rudeness
From: kendall
Date: 11 Dec 99 - 05:05 PM

I'm curious Seed, what is your background in law?

Subject: RE: BS: Rudeness
From: WyoWoman
Date: 11 Dec 99 - 06:44 PM

Here in Wyoming we have something called the "Domestic Violence Prevention Act" and if officers are called to a situation involving members of a family or people who live together, they can arrest the perpetrator even if the victim changes her/his mind. If they see any evidence of violence, they can arrest the person and at least hold him/her overnight until the perp cools down.

I've actually called the cops on the basis of a couple of threatening phone calls I got and they went to the person's residence and let him know they'd arrest him on assault charges if it didn't stop. That was the last I heard from him.

The thing I try to keep in mind is that only someone who feels pretty puny inside needs to make threats and act out their hostility. It doesn't always keep me from having an emotional reaction to their crap, but at least theoretically I know it comes from weakness, not strength.

ww

Subject: RE: BS: Rudeness
From: kendall
Date: 12 Dec 99 - 09:57 AM

Maybe it would help to remember that you have the right to keep and bare arms

Subject: RE: BS: Rudeness
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 12 Dec 99 - 01:01 PM

Yah Wyo, it's frustrating that those puny people can cause so much havoc.
Kendall. Perhaps it's just my contradictionary nature, but even though I strongly support gun control, back a few years ago when someone I was close to, had a complete psychotic breakdown and became dangerous, I accepted a friends offer, and kept a 22 caliber pistol underneath the bed for several months. I (and a number of my friends) had not one shred of confidence in the ability (or the will) of the Government or police to protect those who had been threatened.
Rick

Subject: RE: BS: Rudeness
From: kendall
Date: 12 Dec 99 - 09:43 PM

The police have no real obligation to protect any one person. And, these days, the police are unable to protect themselves! Go into any police station, get a load of the bullet proof glass. No, I dont depend on the police to protect me, if you get my drift..