BS: why teachers despair and quit

Subject: RE: BS: why teachers despair and quit
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 12 Apr 17 - 01:23 PM

Jack,
Nobody can expect to rehash ideologically spin-doctored bollocks and then pontificate that it's an "accurate statement" without getting called out on it.

I completely agree with that statement Jack, but it bears no resemblance to my post on this issue.

Subject: RE: BS: why teachers despair and quit
From: Senoufou
Date: 12 Apr 17 - 10:13 AM

My two lovely nieces graduated from University six or seven years ago. I kept my mouth shut, but was praying that they didn't want to become teachers. Fortunately, the both became involved in financial advising and banking. Phew!

I certainly would be very worried if a child of mine (I haven't got one, but still...) went into teaching. The stresses and strains are in my view not worth the money.

Subject: RE: BS: why teachers despair and quit
From: bobad
Date: 12 Apr 17 - 09:27 AM

we'd all get on a lot better if some folk would desist from being bullies and attacking one poster in a pack like nasty playground tykes

Unfortunately there are some posters here who are compelled to belittle others in order to bolster their own egos. Envious individuals also make themselves feel better by belittling others. It's no different here at Mudcat than outside.

Subject: RE: BS: why teachers despair and quit
From: Raggytash
Date: 12 Apr 17 - 09:03 AM

My Mother qualified as a teacher in 1966, I remember her bringing work home almost every night. She would work at the dining room table for at least an hour a night and often 2 to 3 hours. This was in addition to tending 3 children and a husband.

Subject: RE: BS: why teachers despair and quit
From: Jack Campin
Date: 12 Apr 17 - 08:26 AM

objecting to being unable to express an opinion or make an accurate statement about anything without being attacked by you

Nobody can expect to rehash ideologically spin-doctored bollocks and then pontificate that it's an "accurate statement" without getting called out on it.

Subject: RE: BS: why teachers despair and quit
From: Senoufou
Date: 12 Apr 17 - 08:13 AM

I've just remembered this (going senile I expect):-

When I was teaching in Scotland, early seventies, a new thing came in whereby all teachers had to be give 'Non-Contact Time' of 30 minutes every school day. Money was provided to employ extra staff to cover the two-and-a-half hours per week for every teacher. The time was intended to be spent preparing lessons, marking work, assembling equipment and planning etc. It was a real godsend, and I'm wondering if it still pertains 'up there'?
In my English school (I was there for over twenty years) there was nothing like this, and one was expected to work after hours (I often didn't leave the building until gone 5pm, and always appeared at 7.30 am to get stuff done. We all took work home with us too, and dragged ourselves in during holidays. If one hadn't done this, one would have drowned under the backlog.

Subject: RE: BS: why teachers despair and quit
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Apr 17 - 08:00 AM

Keith has a very long track record of hectoring people interminably. It isn't stalking but his victim act is laughable.

Subject: RE: BS: why teachers despair and quit
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 12 Apr 17 - 07:03 AM

Keith - my apologies if I piled in on top of you.

Subject: RE: BS: why teachers despair and quit
From: Senoufou
Date: 12 Apr 17 - 04:39 AM

At the risk of sounding like Joyce Grenfell, we'd all get on a lot better if some folk would desist from being bullies and attacking one poster in a pack like nasty playground tykes. This is about teachers leaving the profession, not 'Let's all pile in on top of Keith'.

Subject: RE: BS: why teachers despair and quit
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 12 Apr 17 - 03:54 AM

I am not arguing about the issue, just objecting to being unable to express an opinion or make an accurate statement about anything without being attacked by you.

It happened recently on the GPS discussion.
It is like a vendetta.

Subject: RE: BS: why teachers despair and quit
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Apr 17 - 07:00 PM

Knock it off and move on, Keith. Nobody cares, honestly.

Subject: RE: BS: why teachers despair and quit
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 11 Apr 17 - 01:50 PM

Al,

does it matter, you two what precise percentage of teachers drop out?

It does not.
Ask Steve we he chose to make an issue of it.

Subject: RE: BS: why teachers despair and quit
From: Senoufou
Date: 11 Apr 17 - 09:52 AM

I began my teaching career in the very early seventies, and had to complete only three short Teaching Practices at three different schools during my postgraduate teacher training year. My tutor was approached by all three Heads asking him to sound me out as to accepting a post at their schools. In addition, two other Heads asked him to recommend a promising student and he gave them my name too. So in effect I had five job offers before I had even qualified. This wasn't because of any outstanding talent on my part (although I did achieve a Distinction), but as Steve says, there was a serious shortage of new teachers.

In Scotland there was a two-year probation period after qualifying, and 'probationary teachers' were much cheaper. One's salary went up after successfully completing the two years. So my cheapness was also a factor in their enthusiasm!

I accepted the poshest school, and enjoyed it, but moved to a much poorer district where the social deprivation was appalling, and absolutely adored everything.

Subject: RE: BS: why teachers despair and quit
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Apr 17 - 09:05 AM

Just trying to shake him off, Big Al.

Subject: RE: BS: why teachers despair and quit
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 11 Apr 17 - 05:30 AM

does it matter, you two what precise percentage of teachers drop out?

a lot do - despite the wages not really being too bad.

the reasons for this are many and varied. rather like all government workers - police, army, social workers....successive governments abuse, then idealise, underfund and generally bugger about in an amateurish way, and expect too much from human beings whom they thrust into impossible circumstances.

The thing is though - its a difficult job. Very hard work. it takes imagination, realism, a lot of patience and though no one will brief you on the fact, a degree of low cunning. plus experience, The third time you teach Richard II , Seamus Heaney or THe WAsteland to A level kids will be be better than the first time. and that's tough on you and tough on the kids you teach first time.

that's why having a high drop out rate isn't great for the profession. you DO get better and more mature in your response to problems.

The greatest problem in this gig are the snake oil salesman. THe guys that tell you the problems will all be solved by dismantling what has been achieved.

Subject: RE: BS: why teachers despair and quit
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Apr 17 - 05:10 AM

Give it a rest, Keith. You are being utterly pointless.

Talking of a recruitment and retention crisis, the early 1970s was a terrible time. Teacher turnover in London was out of control. My first job was in Poplar in east London. I'd whacked in a few job applications and blow me if I didn't get two interviews on the same day, one in the morning and one in the afternoon. I was the only applicant for both jobs. I took the job at the morning interview and had to ring the other school to tell them I wasn't coming. The head teacher came to the phone and went absolutely ballistic with me, pleading with me to reconsider. It wasn't because I had a stellar reputation, I can tell you that! Edward Heath's monthly pay rises triggered automatically by inflation (a popular but doomed policy that got out of hand), coupled with a major pay review, saw my salary double in twelve months. My first week's pay was £22. The headmistress, Sister Teresa, lent me half a month's pay so that I could pay the rent. The retention issue today has a very different cause. Bureaucracy, overwhelming amounts of paperwork, constant inspection threats and sheer overwork. At least we didn't have that. I doubt whether anyone can demonstrate a concomitant dramatic improvement in standards.

Subject: RE: BS: why teachers despair and quit
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 11 Apr 17 - 04:12 AM

Steve,
I challenge faulty information, Keith.

It was not faulty, as my linked quotes proved.
You just had to have a go because it was me, and just made yourself look stupid again.

Your "information" was an understatement of the problem.

Subject: RE: BS: why teachers despair and quit
From: Iains
Date: 11 Apr 17 - 04:10 AM

Plenty of links for those that can be bothered:

Teacher Recruitment and Retention | National Union of Teachers - NUT
https://www.teachers.org.uk/edufacts/teacher-recruitment-and-retention
There is increasing evidence of a crisis in teacher recruitment and retention just ... Despite the inclusion of Teach First applicants in the ITT statistics, the overall ...

Highest teacher leaving rate in a decade - and 6 other things we ...
schoolsweek.co.uk/highest-teacher-leaving-rate-in-a-decade-and-6-other-things-we-le...

Jun 30, 2016 - Record numbers of teachers are leaving the profession bolstering claims of ... the National Association of Head Teachers, said: "Official statistics mask the .... This is a very worrying trend for the UK and the prognosis is that it is ...

Nearly half of England's teachers plan to leave in next five years ...
https://www.theguardian.com › Education › Teachers' workload
Mar 22, 2016 - Guardian survey shows huge concerns over workload with teachers in ... so hard that they would be indistinguishable from the UK's "best in the ...

Four in 10 new teachers quit within a year | Education | The Guardian
https://www.theguardian.com › Education › Teaching
Mar 31, 2015 - 'Teachers are exhausted, stressed and burnt out in a profession being monitored to within an inch of its life.' Photograph: Agencja Free/Alamy.

Nearly 50,000 quit - around one in 12 full-time teachers, according the ...
www.mirror.co.uk › News › UK News
Jan 30, 2015 - Teachers quitting profession in record numbers as 4,000 leave ... teachers - according the Department for Education's own statistics .....

[PDF]Teachers - Parliament
researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CBP-7222/CBP-7222.pdf
Mar 21, 2017 - www.parliament.uk/commons-library ... Statistics on teacher retention. 7. 3. Government initiatives to encourage teacher recruitment. 9.

Subject: RE: BS: why teachers despair and quit
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 10 Apr 17 - 07:47 PM

i dunno. you're all very judgemental.

a cursory look at society should be enough to tell you that the world is full of people not really doing what they want to. to earn a living. why should teaching be any different. tell you worried young teacher friend - just because you're struggling now doesn't mean you al ways will be. perhaps its not the right branch of teaching for you - teaching has many mansions.

i think it was one of the beat poets who said DH Lawrence tell you that sex between men and women should be a wondrous loving beautiful thing like running into a cathedral. by and large - its not.

it would be nice if all the lessons were great and all the teachers great - but common sense tells us that it will never be. Its a good job. And even if you aren't the world's greatest you will achieve competence if you try hard enough. And you will help some children - even in the most terrible of schools and classes.

if everything was easy and came naturally to us - we'd all be perfect.   sorry to be preachy - i guess it comes from being a folksinger.

Subject: RE: BS: why teachers despair and quit
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Apr 17 - 06:24 PM

From The Guardian, six months ago.

(Sally Weale Education correspondent)

Monday 24 October 2016 19.21 BST Last modified on Friday 17 February 2017 11.20 GMT

Almost a third of teachers who began their career in 2010 quit the classroom within five years of qualifying, according to government figures.

Of the 21,400 who began teaching in English state schools in 2010, 30% had quit by 2015, the schools minister, Nick Gibb, confirmed in a written parliamentary answer.

More than one in 10 (13%) of newly qualified teachers left after a year of teaching, meaning 87% continued to work in the classroom, a proportion the government says is largely unchanged since 1996.

That figure fell to 82% after two years in profession, 77% after three years, 73% after four years and 70% after five years, according to the response to a question by Liberal Democrat MP Greg Mulholland.

I reproduce this for the benefit of those who don't let facts get in the way of prejudice. You know who you are!

Subject: RE: BS: why teachers despair and quit
From: Greg F.
Date: 10 Apr 17 - 05:03 PM

I have forty years [experience teaching].

Two observations, rofessor:

1. You didn't learn much in those 40 years.

2. God help your pupils.

Subject: RE: BS: why teachers despair and quit
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Apr 17 - 04:07 PM

I challenge faulty information, Keith. You came up with a throwaway remark and are now trying to support it with unjustified extrapolations. Just go away and look it up properly instead of trying to cling to your sacred first statement. It's just wrong. Deal with it.

Subject: RE: BS: why teachers despair and quit
From: meself
Date: 10 Apr 17 - 02:17 PM

"Should my son give up on teaching before he begins?"

Depends. If he really wants to teach, then he should give it a shot, and see how it goes. Some people, because of their brains and personalities, don't get terribly dragged down by all the stress, pressures, and general BS. Many young people, though, find themselves carrying on through a grim determination - they're going to make it to the end of the year no matter what, just the way their grandfather fought to the top of that hill and liberated Europe. Contrary to conventional wisdom, I'm not sure that that's the best attitude. Sometimes I think it would be better for a beginning teacher who's having a miserable time to just take a look at themselves, take a look at the situation, and say, This isn't a match - I'm outta here. And go work at McDonald's, if need be, till they work out something better.

One of my sons has considered going into teaching. I've neither encouraged nor discouraged him. My advice was that if he honestly thought he would like teaching, to go ahead, but if he was just thinking of it as something he "could do" with a History degree, then I wouldn't particularly recommend it.

Subject: RE: BS: why teachers despair and quit
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 10 Apr 17 - 02:09 PM

Perhaps, but did not used to be like this, and has been getting worse for years.

Subject: RE: BS: why teachers despair and quit
From: Senoufou
Date: 10 Apr 17 - 02:07 PM

Do you think the numbers leaving quite early on in their profession might be due to the fact that they haven't a true vocation for the job? They start teaching and cannot 'connect' with their students, or engage their interest. Or they're unable to dream up ways of presenting lessons that are innovative and entertaining. This always led to discipline problems for 'my' young protege student teachers. They always arrived with lots of photocopied bits of paper and the textbooks, but their delivery of the lesson and performance was, well, boring.

A teacher is on stage in a sense, and has to 'act'. And a huge sense of humour is important. It's all about one's character, and pupils will suss that out in five minutes.

Subject: RE: BS: why teachers despair and quit
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 10 Apr 17 - 02:02 PM

Steve, if almost half have left after one year, then after a couple of years it will have passed the halfway mark, and it has got worse since 2012.
"Majority of new teachers to drop out within a year by 2017 (ONE YEAR!)
By 2017, just 48% of newly qualified teachers (NQTs) will still be in teaching one year after qualifying says Randstaad      "
http://academytoday.co.uk/Article/majority-of-new-teachers-to-drop-out-within-a-year-by-2017
You have offered nothing to back your claim.

But this is not about the facts.
You can not let any post of mine go unchallenged.
Likewise Greg F.
What is your experience of teaching in UK Greg?
I have forty years.

Subject: RE: BS: why teachers despair and quit
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Apr 17 - 01:50 PM

Four in ten within a year is not most within two years. Also, if you bother to look you'll find the figure I gave to be the accurate one.

Subject: RE: BS: why teachers despair and quit
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 10 Apr 17 - 01:47 PM

Steve,
"Almost four out of 10 teachers quit within a year of qualifying, with 11,000 leaving the profession before they have really begun their career and record numbers of those who remain giving up mid-career, according to analysis of government figures."

That would justify my statement.
https://www.theguardian.com/education/2015/mar/31/four-in-10-new-teachers-quit-within-a-year

Subject: RE: BS: why teachers despair and quit
From: Senoufou
Date: 10 Apr 17 - 01:46 PM

Thomas Gradgrind asked little Sissy Jupe ("Girl number twenty") to 'define a horse'. She and her father worked with horses in a circus, and she viewed them with much joy and admiration for their beauty and power. But Gradgrind didn't like her stammered reply, and asked a ghastly little toady called Bitzer. He reeled off a list of a horse's anatomy such as 'quadruped' and different teeth etc. Gradgrind approved of this boring list and Sissy was made to feel inadequate. ('Hard Times', Charles Dickens)

This passage seems to me to epitomise the blasted National Curriculum.

As with DMcG's cannon, one can impart a fascinating, rounded view of the world in all its wonderful complexity, involving all the disciplines and areas of study. Or one can see...er...a cannon.

Subject: RE: BS: why teachers despair and quit
From: Stanron
Date: 10 Apr 17 - 01:17 PM

Donuel wrote: I believe the most important part of every class subject is how to learn. We learn from understanding, not by rote.

Not exactly two words.

Subject: RE: BS: why teachers despair and quit
From: DMcG
Date: 10 Apr 17 - 12:57 PM

I think I have told this before, but it links into Senofou's haggis story and her complaint about compartmentalising subjects. About two years ago I was in a fort standing next to a cannon which was pointing out to sea, intending to sink any approaching vessels. To me there was not only a cannon but a set of imperitives driving more advanced maths for the trajectory, improvements in measurements for both weights and measures, better machining and manufacture of the cannon and the ball, improved quality of the metal, improved quality regimes on the powder, more reproducable charges and on and on. My son is a historian by inclination, so he saw trade agreements, ebb and flow of commerce and who knows what else.

To me, it makes no sense to partition things so all you see is a cannon.

Subject: RE: BS: why teachers despair and quit
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Apr 17 - 11:29 AM

Don't knock rote learning, Rote has its place...

I swear you take two words and miss the bigger point. I was refining the definition of higher learning. Of course you could not play a scale without rote learning and muscle memory. Memorization is not going to get you to be more intelligent than a rat.

Anyway I know why you guys commented in the way you did. It is due to the nature of our neural filter. It is designed to ignore, repeat our POV or combat the concept. In the absence of oxytocin our brain is not designed to flatly agree. It is an example of simple human nature, not the superiority of understanding why. Brain stem reaction to fear and hate will beat true understanding as assuredly as a poor diet will diminish higher brain function. If you still do not agree, look at the nature of our 'debate' threads here. :^)

Be that as it may, Should my son give up on teaching before he begins?
Some of the teachers here seem to imply he should. I know graduates who did give up.

Subject: RE: BS: why teachers despair and quit
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Apr 17 - 11:27 AM

An Ofsted inspector once fell asleep on the back row of my science lab when I was taking a class of Year 8s. One of the lads came up to the front to tell me that "that man at the back is snoring, sir!" Read what you like into that, but I know for a fact that he was staying at the Falcon Hotel in Bude and had been propping up the bar the night before. Bit of a goldfish bowl is Bude!

Subject: RE: BS: why teachers despair and quit
From: Senoufou
Date: 10 Apr 17 - 11:13 AM

It's a complex set of difficulties for teachers. I remember when the National Curriculum came in, each teacher in our school was presented with a large three-drawer filing cabinet. I wondered why. I soon found out. Ten huge and massively heavy grey ring-folders (National Curriculum 'subjects') were brought in by a staggering Welfare Assistant. Followed by about seven other, smaller folders for Lesson Plans, Assessment of Lessons Completed, Stock Orders, Special Needs Assessments, on and on and on. I was drowning in A4 sheets of paper. Those three drawers were soon full to bursting.

Then The Timetable. ('Literacy Hour', and many other cages in which to lock and stultify children's brains). Learning now comprised ten mutually exclusive subjects, which appeared to be the GCSE course divided into indigestible chunks thought suitable for children from 8yrs old. (hence The Depression and The Abdication)

Not long afterwards the Inspectors arrived, mostly a bunch of fools who couldn't teach and hadn't a clue what they were supposed to do. The things they said to me and the 'suggestions' they made were so annoying I was hard put not to knock them senseless and flee the building.
If today's teachers have these sorts of things to endure, it's no wonder they look elsewhere, for better salaries, happier workplaces, far less stress and more appreciation. Good luck to them.

Subject: RE: BS: why teachers despair and quit
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Apr 17 - 10:57 AM

"Now most new teachers quit after a couple of years."

Not true. The dropout rate for newly-qualified teachers in this country is just under one-third in their first five years. Don't make things up.

Subject: RE: BS: why teachers despair and quit
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 10 Apr 17 - 10:57 AM

"An accountant does not normally teach in his or her role as an accountant" - oh yes he does, I've been doing just that for the past 30 years to graduate idiots who think they know everything and know nothing, and I got into accountancy with just the required number of O levels!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: why teachers despair and quit
From: Greg F.
Date: 10 Apr 17 - 10:41 AM

teachers were largely responsible for that by bringing in liberal regimes.

Professor, I concede that you are, indeed, The King Of Bullshit.

Subject: RE: BS: why teachers despair and quit
From: Jack Campin
Date: 10 Apr 17 - 10:32 AM

Erosion of respect and discipline made the job steadily harder and less rewarding, but teachers were largely responsible for that by bringing in liberal regimes

It's hardly the fault of "liberal regimes" if the kids are up till the small hours training themselves to have the attention span of a chipmunk by playing computer and phone games and then poisoning themselves all day with junk food chemicals.

I work across the street from a junk food takeaway whose clients are mostly kids from the local high school at lunchtime. I don't know how such a small outlet manages to produce so much pizza in such a short time. There are typically 20 kids hanging around outside it stuffing themselves with dripping vitamin-free handfuls of stodge and grease. Nobody could think straight on a diet like that.

Subject: RE: BS: why teachers despair and quit
From: DMcG
Date: 10 Apr 17 - 09:47 AM

Learning by rote is sometimes useful but in the main I think this is where there is no underlying rationale, or that rationale doesn't help much with the getting the answer quickly. There is no reason the letters of the ABC (or any other alphabet) are in the order they are so rote learning is your only option. You could derive all the tables from first principles but it wouldn't be sensible. The order of the UK kings and queens is another rote thing. So yes, rote has its place. But for example looking at the times tables and seeing the patterns offers insights simplw rote learning does not.

Subject: RE: BS: why teachers despair and quit
From: Stanron
Date: 10 Apr 17 - 09:32 AM

Don't knock learning by rote. I can still recite all twelve times tables and just a couple of days ago I had need to recite the Alphabet. All still serviceable 60 plus years later. No understanding needed, simple rote memory. Not that understanding is not valuable, of course it is, but so is stuff learned by heart. Like lyrics, tunes and whatever else.

Having said that I retired from teaching two years early and was glad to get out. I was getting told how to teach by people less than half my age.

Subject: RE: BS: why teachers despair and quit
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Apr 17 - 08:45 AM

No one will ever know it all but 'know it all's' seem to see this as a laudable pursuit that governs their meddling with students, teachers and grading systems that are designed to separate wheat from chaff.
I think I was deemed chaff unfairly.

Yes, knowing 'why' is crucial to the foundation of on going learning.
Learning what simple questions to ask is very illuminating.
I believe the most important part of every class subject is how to learn. We learn from understanding, not by rote.
This is basically about the old, give a fish vs. teaching to fish, wisdom.

Listening to all of you is quite worrisome regarding my son who graduates next year to become a history teacher.

Subject: RE: BS: why teachers despair and quit
From: Raggytash
Date: 10 Apr 17 - 06:31 AM

In other professions you are not normally charged with teaching young people about a subject. An accountant does not normally teach in his or her role as an accountant. A lawyer does not normally teach in his or her role as a lawyer. Student go for particular training to become proficient in these, and other, subjects.

If someone has spent their formative years exclusively in a classroom setting their experiences of life are somewhat limited.

Going back to when I was engaged in education I found the best teachers were not the ones straight from teacher training college but the ones who had had other experiences and seemed better able to disseminate thoughts and ideas.

Subject: RE: BS: why teachers despair and quit
From: DMcG
Date: 10 Apr 17 - 06:26 AM

Relating that back to the topic: I think most teachers really want to get the understanding in their pupils but that all the pressures are for them to just teach the magic words.

Subject: RE: BS: why teachers despair and quit
From: DMcG
Date: 10 Apr 17 - 06:19 AM

I agree, Jon, that is is a really useful skill for a teacher to be able to show the relevance of what they are teaching and to relate what is being taught to something the student is familiar with. Without it, you risk teaching repetition of meaningless sentences and magic. Maths is very prone to this; talking to people you often find they know that "you do this" but have no understanding of why. Teaching the why of things - whether science, maths, history or art - seems to me at the heart of good teaching since that is the base for understanding rather than fact-collecting. It just doesn't seem obvious to me that time out in another industry necessarily helps.

Subject: RE: BS: why teachers despair and quit
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 10 Apr 17 - 06:03 AM

Dave, from my own couple of later in life experiences (IT courses) I would say it is nice to have a tutor with some experience in "industry". They can (to me) add another more "hands on" view.

But that's maybe a different topic...

Subject: RE: BS: why teachers despair and quit
From: DMcG
Date: 10 Apr 17 - 05:52 AM

While knowledge of other spheres of life is valuable to us all, I am not sure I see why we should single teaching out as the one profession that we should ask to do something else before they start the job in earnest. We don't ask accountants to teach first, or lawyers to run a corner shop, so why should teachers do something different first? I dont doubt that it would be valuable experience, but I don't see the lack of it as a bigger problem than any other profession.

Subject: RE: BS: why teachers despair and quit
From: Raggytash
Date: 10 Apr 17 - 05:17 AM

I think that one of the fundamental problems is that many teachers have little experience of life outside the classroom.

School, Sixth Form College, University, back to the schoolroom as teachers.

Maybe if these teachers had done another job for a year or three they would be more capable teachers.

Subject: RE: BS: why teachers despair and quit
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 10 Apr 17 - 04:31 AM

I knew a phd once who tried primary school teaching. I think he should have made a very good one, with a broad range of interests and a desire to explain things to the young. Last I heard he's back to doing university work.

The picture I seem to get when I've talked to teachers is that the "red tape" grinds them down and that education can be an "accountancy"/"statistics" exercise.

Subject: RE: BS: why teachers despair and quit
From: Senoufou
Date: 10 Apr 17 - 04:17 AM

I had a class of forty-eight (!) eight year-olds in Glasgow. And a rather limited selection of equipment, text-books etc. But the Head was wonderfully supportive of his staff, kept the pupils in check without being repressive, and (bless him!) left us to get on with teaching. Our timetables were entirely up to us. We could choose what we taught and when. Only a blackboard and some chalk, and no groups, just 'whole class' teaching. But if one was inventive and brought in visual aids, interesting objects and could 'entertain' without losing control of the class, it whizzed along.
I wrote, directed and produced a pantomime (Sleeping Beauty), complete with costumes and stage sets. We performed this to the 'infants' across the road, and to the parents. I played the piano for the songs I'd composed, and the nine 'elves' were a little percussion band.
We were forever making huge collages on geography, history, 'nature' and science, which adorned the walls of every corridor. It was all such fun for everyone (including me!), and I'm certain those children learned what they needed to without any stultifying National Curriculum. Now there just isn't time for 'interesting' or 'fun' learning. It's just grind grind grind. Like Mr Gradgrind in Dickens' Hard Times. The pupils get bored and misbehave. And the teachers get depressed and leave.

Subject: RE: BS: why teachers despair and quit
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 10 Apr 17 - 03:25 AM

I retired 3 years ago, but the last 10 years were in a referral unit (excluded kids) not mainstream.
I started in 74.

Erosion of respect and discipline made the job steadily harder and less rewarding, but teachers were largely responsible for that by bringing in liberal regimes.
It used to be one adult and a blackboard with a large class.
Not possible now.

Ex-teachers who become administrators are another problem.
They are very good at thinking up extra things for teachers to do that benefit the students.
Actually anyone could do that, but they never suggested anything teachers could stop doing to make time for all the new things.

Now most new teachers quit after a couple of years.