BS: Sci-Fi and/or fantasy authors

Subject: RE: DTStudy: I'm My Own Grandpa (D Latham/M Jaffe)
From: Helen
Date: 25 Apr 22 - 04:11 AM

I'll go back and read this whole thread but I just watched an Australian Sci-fi movie called Predestination. A couple of times in the movie someone was playing I'm My Own Grandpa on a juke box and it turns out that it is a core theme of the movie.

I'll have to watch it again to fully understand it all - like I had to watch Inception a couple more times. It was an interesting concept and I think it was worth watching.

Based on a story by Robert Heinlein called All You Zombies, and I'll now try to find it and read it.

Subject: RE: DTStudy: I'm My Own Grandpa (D Latham/M Jaffe)
From: Piers Plowman
Date: 25 Apr 22 - 12:13 PM

If you like this kind of science fiction, i.e., with paradoxes, I recommend Philip K. Dick's stories.

Subject: RE: DTStudy: I'm My Own Grandpa (D Latham/M Jaffe)
From: Helen
Date: 25 Apr 22 - 12:50 PM

Yes! Philip K. Dick!

One of my all-time favourite movies is Blade Runner, inspired by PKD's novel, Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?

Subject: RE: DTStudy: I'm My Own Grandpa (D Latham/M Jaffe)
From: Piers Plowman
Date: 25 Apr 22 - 02:11 PM

I saw another movie based on his ideas and I have to say I think his stories were much better than the movie. A nearby library has a three volume collection of his short stories which I read a while ago and they were really good.

I used to read science fiction when I was young and then eventually stopped, mostly because I stopped liking what was coming out. Dick was a real discovery for me.

Subject: RE: DTStudy: I'm My Own Grandpa (D Latham/M Jaffe)
From: Helen
Date: 25 Apr 22 - 02:46 PM

I was a big Sci-Fi and fantasy fiction fan when I was young too and I still have a big collection of books but I never got back into it for some reason. I have a big book of PKD's stories which I bought about 10 years ago but for some reason I never got very far with reading them. I tried to read one of the longer stories but the subject matter didn't appeal to me and I didn't go back to the book.

I had read the Do Androids Dream story many years before I saw Blade Runner so it was interesting seeing the movie compared with the story.

Subject: RE: DTStudy: I'm My Own Grandpa (D Latham/M Jaffe)
From: Piers Plowman
Date: 25 Apr 22 - 03:57 PM

When I was young, I knew the name Philip K. Dick and I may have read something in some anthology or other but to me he was just another author. Much later I found out how he was now recognized as being a special writer, even by critics who don't generally care for science fiction. It may have had something to do with people getting rich off of his ideas by making successful movies. Unfortunately, he himself never reaped much in the way of rewards for his work when he was alive.

Some of the stories I read have really stuck with me. It might be worth giving him another try.

Back in the day my favorite SF author was John Brunner, who wrote three long, ambitious novels along with lots of ordinary ones, with some stand-outs, however. Later I came across John Wyndham, whom I still like very much.

Subject: RE: DTStudy: I'm My Own Grandpa (D Latham/M Jaffe)
From: Helen
Date: 25 Apr 22 - 04:29 PM

We probably shouldn't be hijacking this thread but some of my other fave authors in Sci-Fi and/or fantasy are Richard Matheson, Terry Pratchett, Ursula K. Le Guin, Marion Bradley, C. J. Cherryh. I originally started with anthologies in late high school and then progressed to the novels and short stories of my preferred authors. I wasn't overly fond of Heinlein's works, but I liked Isaac Asimov and Brian Aldis. One discovery was John Crowley's book Engine Summer.

Subject: RE: DTStudy: I'm My Own Grandpa (D Latham/M Jaffe)
From: Piers Plowman
Date: 25 Apr 22 - 04:53 PM

Well, since before you first posted, the last two postings were from 2017 and 2010 I doubt that anyone would care, though you never know.

From the authors you mentioned I'm guessing you're a little younger than I am. I started with SF and Fantasy in junior high school, I suppose. There are some things that are good or even very good but a lot of it is meant to be light reading without trying to be anything more than that.

Another author I liked and would recommend would be J.G. Ballard.

Subject: BS: Sci-Fi and/or fantasy authors
From: Helen
Date: 25 Apr 22 - 06:19 PM

I'm starting this thread so that two of us can stop hijacking the following thread:

DTStudy: I'm My Own Grandpa (D Latham/M Jaffe)

I posted to that thread about the song because I had just watched a movie called Predestination and the song was referenced twice and its concept is central to the core theme of the movie.

What came out of that was a topic detour, i.e. a discussion about favourite Sci-Fi and/or fantasy authors.

As the Grandpa song thread was a DTStudy, I thought that retreat was the better part of valour, and I decided not to sully the thread with unrelated content, and to start a new specific thread.

I'll paste our comments into this thread and also put a link to this one in the Grandpa song thread.

Subject: RE: BS: Sci-Fi and/or fantasy authors
From: Helen
Date: 25 Apr 22 - 06:24 PM

These are the posts which were in the Grandpa song thread:

Subject: RE: DTStudy: I'm My Own Grandpa (D Latham/M Jaffe)
From: Helen - PM
Date: 25 Apr 22 - 04:11 AM

I'll go back and read this whole thread but I just watched an Australian Sci-fi movie called Predestination. A couple of times in the movie someone was playing I'm My Own Grandpa on a juke box and it turns out that it is a core theme of the movie.

I'll have to watch it again to fully understand it all - like I had to watch Inception a couple more times. It was an interesting concept and I think it was worth watching.

Based on a story by Robert Heinlein called All You Zombies, and I'll now try to find it and read it.

From: Piers Plowman - PM
Date: 25 Apr 22 - 12:13 PM

If you like this kind of science fiction, i.e., with paradoxes, I recommend Philip K. Dick's stories.

From: Helen - PM
Date: 25 Apr 22 - 12:50 PM

Yes! Philip K. Dick!

One of my all-time favourite movies is Blade Runner, inspired by PKD's novel, Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?

From: Piers Plowman - PM
Date: 25 Apr 22 - 02:11 PM

I saw another movie based on his ideas and I have to say I think his stories were much better than the movie. A nearby library has a three volume collection of his short stories which I read a while ago and they were really good.

I used to read science fiction when I was young and then eventually stopped, mostly because I stopped liking what was coming out. Dick was a real discovery for me.

From: Helen - PM
Date: 25 Apr 22 - 02:46 PM

I was a big Sci-Fi and fantasy fiction fan when I was young too and I still have a big collection of books but I never got back into it for some reason. I have a big book of PKD's stories which I bought about 10 years ago but for some reason I never got very far with reading them. I tried to read one of the longer stories but the subject matter didn't appeal to me and I didn't go back to the book.

I had read the Do Androids Dream story many years before I saw Blade Runner so it was interesting seeing the movie compared with the story.

From: Piers Plowman - PM
Date: 25 Apr 22 - 03:57 PM

When I was young, I knew the name Philip K. Dick and I may have read something in some anthology or other but to me he was just another author. Much later I found out how he was now recognized as being a special writer, even by critics who don't generally care for science fiction. It may have had something to do with people getting rich off of his ideas by making successful movies. Unfortunately, he himself never reaped much in the way of rewards for his work when he was alive.

Some of the stories I read have really stuck with me. It might be worth giving him another try.

Back in the day my favorite SF author was John Brunner, who wrote three long, ambitious novels along with lots of ordinary ones, with some stand-outs, however. Later I came across John Wyndham, whom I still like very much.

From: Helen - PM
Date: 25 Apr 22 - 04:29 PM

We probably shouldn't be hijacking this thread but some of my other fave authors in Sci-Fi and/or fantasy are Richard Matheson, Terry Pratchett, Ursula K. Le Guin, Marion Bradley, C. J. Cherryh. I originally started with anthologies in late high school and then progressed to the novels and short stories of my preferred authors. I wasn't overly fond of Heinlein's works, but I liked Isaac Asimov and Brian Aldis. One discovery was John Crowley's book Engine Summer.

From: Piers Plowman - PM
Date: 25 Apr 22 - 04:53 PM

Well, since before you first posted, the last two postings were from 2017 and 2010 I doubt that anyone would care, though you never know.

From the authors you mentioned I'm guessing you're a little younger than I am. I started with SF and Fantasy in junior high school, I suppose. There are some things that are good or even very good but a lot of it is meant to be light reading without trying to be anything more than that.

Another author I liked and would recommend would be J.G. Ballard.

Subject: RE: BS: Sci-Fi and/or fantasy authors
From: Helen
Date: 25 Apr 22 - 06:31 PM

BTW and again, off topic, I studied The vision of Piers Plowman at Uni when I studied Middle English and Old English.

I remember the names John Brunner and J.G. Ballard but I can't remember what I have read by them.

Another author I like is Nevil Shute and he wrote at least two futuristic novels. On the Beach was about a nuclear future, and the other one - I'll have to look up the title - started as a very ordinary, everyday situation but later revealed itself as Sci-Fi.

Subject: RE: BS: Sci-Fi and/or fantasy authors
From: Bill D
Date: 25 Apr 22 - 06:57 PM

Best short stories in general... James Tiptree Jr...(who was a woman)
Lots by Roger Zelazny..including the exquisite https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Rose_for_Ecclesiastes... which *I* think should have been made into a movie... but Zelazny would never have permitted Hollywood to mess with the story.


Best novels- My all-time favorite is "The Mote in God's Eye" Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle,..sequel is "The Gripping Hand"
.. but many things by James Blish, Issac Asimov are also great.
So very, very many...

Subject: RE: BS: Sci-Fi and/or fantasy authors
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Apr 22 - 07:13 PM

I know that the past, future and present can occur simultsneously someplace at some velocities that gives predestination some real estate. Depending on how you slice space time one would be looking at a past or a future but not be present in either. Being human I can relate to premonition as a real quantum phenomenon with more ease. Going back in time is a real no-no in my book. There are some things for which I can not suspend belief. A work around by using coded communiction by entangled particles are still a cheat. Authors that treat realities in physics too fast and loose fall short in my reality models. Popular now is the 20 year old multiverse idea. It too makes for a cluttered mess in my way of thinking.

I've even tried ideas of entangled twins going into opposite time streams but that too was cheating by ignoring paradoxes.
Some travel should is simply best not tried.

Subject: RE: BS: Sci-Fi and/or fantasy authors
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Apr 22 - 07:17 PM

Niven, Pournelle and Asimov is in my wheelhouse too.

Subject: RE: BS: Sci-Fi and/or fantasy authors
From: Helen
Date: 25 Apr 22 - 08:35 PM

The other Nevil Shute novel I mentioned is In the Wet . It's more of a social future novel than a scientific future novel.

Subject: RE: BS: Sci-Fi and/or fantasy authors
From: Piers Plowman
Date: 26 Apr 22 - 05:15 AM

I'd much rather post under my real name (Laurence Finston) and I asked how to change this but I never got an answer and I haven't bothered to pursue this further. I've never read "Piers Plowman".

I thought thread drift was part of the "folk process", but I'm happy to move, if you prefer.

John Brunner wrote three long, ambitious novels in a kind of "collage" style, Stand on Zanzibar, The Sheep Look Up and "The Jagged Orbit". They were influenced by the Club of Rome report warning of the effects of overpopulation. They may seem a bit dated now, but still worth reading.

The Stone that Never Came Down was probably one of the first adult books I read. I discovered it by chance at the Evanston Public Library and was intrigued by the title. It is one of his good ones, as is The Shockwave Rider, which I bought and read several times.

J.G. Ballard wrote a very good short story about a dead giant who washes up on a beach and what happens to the corpse and another one about a couple of people who find a hidden room in a society where people don't have much space. People sometimes use the term "Ballardesque" to describe situations like ones in his stories.

Subject: RE: BS: Sci-Fi and/or fantasy authors
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 26 Apr 22 - 05:26 AM

If we're still talking "I'm my own grandpa" then I can recommend The Flipside of Dominick Hide although just this comment is enough to make itself a 'spoiler'.
It was an episode of "Play For Today" in 1980
Available as a DVD on Ebay (I've just ordered a copy)

Subject: RE: BS: Sci-Fi and/or fantasy authors
From: Helen
Date: 26 Apr 22 - 05:38 AM

Piers, I was just a bit worried that a DTStudy thread might be, well, you know, too "studious" to drift a long way from the topic. LOL

I tried searching for an existing thread on Sci-Fi & fantasy authors but I couldn't find one which seemed to be about the same topic.

BTW, I left high school in the very early 70's but I'm a senior citizen now. One of the units I studied in my English Lit degree was fantasy and science fiction. I discovered a lot of authors I hadn't heard of before and really enjoyed studying that part of the course.

Subject: RE: BS: Sci-Fi and/or fantasy authors
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Apr 22 - 06:10 AM

Helen if you look up this week you will see a sci fi favorite,
Earth Mars Venus Saturn and Jupiter are nicely alinged
all lined up


a red nebula

Subject: RE: BS: Sci-Fi and/or fantasy authors
From: Rain Dog
Date: 26 Apr 22 - 06:25 AM

Some of you might find the following of interest.

SF Encyclopedia Home Page

Subject: RE: BS: Sci-Fi and/or fantasy authors
From: Piers Plowman
Date: 26 Apr 22 - 08:06 AM

If you graduated from high school in the very early '70s then I was way off with my guess about being older than you. I was born in 1963.

While I never did any Middle English (and thus missed out on Chaucer, for example), I did take a class in Old English. I studied Old Icelandic and Middle High German and took a couple of classes in Old High German and Gothic. I still have all of my books from this era but it's been a long time since I've done anything with these languages, having gone in a different direction.

I've recently gotten a few books out of boxes and may start reading some things I started back then and always wanted to finish.

I must admit that reading Beowulf, for instance, or many of the Old Icelandic sagas, was much more rewarding than reading almost all of the SF and Fantasy literature I've read. However, maybe that's comparing apples and oranges.

Subject: RE: BS: Sci-Fi and/or fantasy authors
From: Piers Plowman
Date: 26 Apr 22 - 08:09 AM

... Or apples and pears, for any Britishers who may be reading this.

Subject: RE: BS: Sci-Fi and/or fantasy authors
From: Mrrzy
Date: 26 Apr 22 - 08:59 AM

On the one hand, Larry Niven rules, especially his Known Space series. On the other hand, I usually like his short stories better than his novels. On the gripping hand, none of the sequels to Mote were really worth it...

Subject: RE: BS: Sci-Fi and/or fantasy authors
From: Bill D
Date: 26 Apr 22 - 09:25 AM

I was at one time, immersed in the Darkover series by Marion Zimmer Bradley. I have read 'almost' all of them.
There's almost no 'science' in them, even though the basis is 'ship from Earth rediscovers lost colony where a few humans interbred with vaguely humanoid aliens, acquiring various degrees of psychic powers.
   So, the meat of the series explores the conflicts and personalities and resultant society as it developed BEFORE rediscovery and after.
Later books, sometimes shared by the author with other female writers focuses on an Amazon-like group of women.
   In such a long, complex series there are inevitable contradictions about relationships and timeline.... but one can pick & choose which aspects of the culture to explore.

Subject: RE: BS: Sci-Fi and/or fantasy authors
From: Black belt caterpillar wrestler
Date: 26 Apr 22 - 12:25 PM

Juhn Brunner was asociated with South Petherton Folk Festival, I remember meeting him when Blind Panic were booked there many years ago.

Robin

Subject: RE: BS: Sci-Fi and/or fantasy authors
From: Helen
Date: 26 Apr 22 - 02:53 PM

Donuel, unfortunately I missed the alignment of the planets because it was cloudy here. It was declared as a once-in-1000-year event and I missed it. I'll have to watch it next time. LOL

Piers, I started re-reading Beowulf in Old English a few years ago but I got sidetracked and stopped. It was a bit of a struggle remembering some of the words but I was enjoying it. I was motivated to re-read it because I saw a Beowulf movie on TV. It was a dark and gritty rendition, not a Hollywood version.

Bill D, I read everything I could find of Marion Zimmer Bradley, including the Darkover series, and the Mists of Avalon series. In the MoA series it always struck me as funny that Merlin's birth name was Kevin, because a Kevin or Kev here in Australia is usually one of the blokes you meet at the pub or a plumber or builder etc, with a big Aussie personality. Merlin? No!! So I had to suspend my disbelief every time I saw his name in the books. LOL

Subject: RE: BS: Sci-Fi and/or fantasy authors
From: robomatic
Date: 26 Apr 22 - 05:46 PM

The genesis of the thread re: "I'm My Own Grandpa" and the reference to "All You Zombies" by Robert A. Heinlein is a great remembrance of a truly seminal short story about sex, time, and time-travel. It's the kind of story a young man writes during a brilliant evening, similar to what happened with Isaac Asimov the evening he wrote "Nightfall". or Arthur C. Clarke with "The Ten Billion Names of God".

"All You Zombies
" is brilliantly interwoven, both sad and hilarious and unrestrained, especially since it was written in the 50s.

And it also has a listing of The Bylaws of Time, among them are:

A Stitch in Time Saves Nine Billion.
Ancestors are Just People
It is Earlier When You Think

Subject: RE: BS: Sci-Fi and/or fantasy authors
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Apr 22 - 02:02 AM

I'm currently reading "The Long Earth" series by Terry Pratchett and Stephen Baxter. I know the former well as he is one of my favourite authors. I didn't know Baxter at all but the sleeve notes say he is one of the best current sci-fi writers in the UK. I must try some of his other works.

I can recommend the horror/fantasy/sci-fi work of English author, Simon Bestwick. He also sings an excellent rendition of Twa Corbies :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Sci-Fi and/or fantasy authors
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Apr 22 - 10:17 AM

As a time junkie a 70's oldie but a goodie is Dahlgren. After an accident Time moves in loopy circles so electronic signals can’t reach the city, cutting it off from the outside world. To borrow a phrase from the book, Dhalgren “has more to say than vocabulary and syntax can bear”; written in a circular structure, it’s a novel with multiple entry points, which will bend your brain. I'm not good with names so i had to look up samual Delaney.
The only sci fi writer I met was Douglas Adams.

Subject: RE: BS: Sci-Fi and/or fantasy authors
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 27 Apr 22 - 11:15 AM

I haven't heard of In the Wet and I was looking for his novels (pre-Internet) back in the 70s and 80s. On the Beach has one of the last scenes near my home in Washington and I guess that cemented it's place in my memory. Have you read his Trustee From the Toolroom? Who'd have thought up a story like that?

Years ago I read some of the novels of Jules Verne (in high school) and more recently I read to my son during our bedtime reading time Frankenstein; or, The Modern Prometheus that is probably the earliest science fiction novel. (We may have been an unusual family. We read at bedtime into their high school years, because why stop just because they can read? We covered some great stuff, novels and poetry.) I will admit that Shelley's novel was the last one we read - it was a tough one to get through with such an old fashioned style of writing and expression, but even then, the next time we watched Rocky Horror Picture Show together and some of the exact words turned up in the dialog, my son's head popped up in surprise.

Subject: RE: BS: Sci-Fi and/or fantasy authors
From: Stanron
Date: 27 Apr 22 - 12:28 PM

I was a library junkie from the age of eleven, over six decades ago!, and science fiction was a big part of what I read. Many of the authors names are now lost to me now but I do remember Heinlein and Azimoth. Bradbury was a bit dark and very strange. Philip K Dick was not always to my taste.

There were Neville Shute novels on my parents book shelves but at that time I preferred Sci Fi.

Three or four decades later I got into Neville Shute novels in a big way. I read every one of his novels and his autobiography Sliderule. That's not going to be a good read if your politics are to the left. Trustee From The Toolroom was one of my favourites. All heroes and no baddies.

In my thirties I discovered Roger Zelazney. More fantasy than S F but I read every one I could find.

I don't read much these days. Perhaps I spend too long online.

Subject: RE: BS: Sci-Fi and/or fantasy authors
From: Helen
Date: 27 Apr 22 - 04:40 PM

Nevil Shute has been one of my favourite authors for decades. Slide Rule is one of my all-time favourite books. In fact, I was just thinking the other day that it's time I re-read it. I don't know why it hasn't been made into a movie. As an ex-employee of a few state and local government departments I find the comparison between a business perspective and government bull-headed, head-in-the-sand bureaucracy fascinating but I also love anything to do with flying so designing and building airships fascinated me as well.

(The government bureaucracy and management madness theme reminds me of a very clever, very funny Oz TV series called Grass Roots. Watching it, I would be howling with laughter but almost crying in despair because to me it was a lived experience.)

I have read Trustee From The Toolroom but I've also read every other NS book I could find so I don't remember that one specifically. I have about 40 of his books so I'll find it and read it again, after I read Slide Rule again, of course.

I think that when I discovered Terry Pratchett he sent me off course for a couple of decades for reading other fantasy/Sci-Fi authors because he was so clever and funny and inventive. I bought every one of his books that I could find. And, being a librarian in a public library branch, I also ordered one of each for the library shelves - and told (i.e. converted to Pratchettism) everyone I knew who would listen.

Subject: RE: BS: Sci-Fi and/or fantasy authors
From: Bill D
Date: 27 Apr 22 - 05:52 PM

re: Nevil Shute...
I started "On the Beach" many years ago and all I can remember of it is that a couple were going 'somewhere' looking for better lives and the only detail that stuck with me was the constant struggle to "find milk for baby".
I never included Schute in a list of sci-fi authors.
As for Bradley, I just gravitate more to 'hard' sci-fi and mostly avoid anything closer to fantasy. Darkover is highly speculative as to possible psychic powers, but doesn't get into 'magic' as such.

Subject: RE: BS: Sci-Fi and/or fantasy authors
From: Helen
Date: 27 Apr 22 - 11:31 PM

Well, Bill D, as I said above, Nevil Shute wrote at least two futuristic novels, On the Beach, and In the Wet. As far as I know they are the only two he wrote with any futuristic themes, and they probably come more under a definition of speculative fiction, i.e. what will society be like in the future, and therefore could be under the umbrella of Sci-Fi.

Subject: RE: BS: Sci-Fi and/or fantasy authors
From: robomatic
Date: 28 Apr 22 - 04:25 AM

I may have mentioned this elsewhere in MC, the Three Body Problem trilogy by Cixin Liu is cutting edge SF. Particularly with its Chinese POV.

Subject: RE: BS: Sci-Fi and/or fantasy authors
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Apr 22 - 06:52 AM

Back in the day sci fi nerds and geeks seem to have been outsiders of sorts. Today you are much better people for having explored unique ideas and opportunities.

Subject: RE: BS: Sci-Fi and/or fantasy authors
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 28 Apr 22 - 04:46 PM

Just been into Waterstones in Cardiff centre and bought three* of the six novels shortlisted for this year's Hugo awards.
Hopefully some good reading ahead.

*Two more on order, but Waterstones don't have a trading relationship with the final book's publisher.

Subject: RE: BS: Sci-Fi and/or fantasy authors
From: Helen
Date: 29 Apr 22 - 03:17 PM

I've read so much Sci-Fi and Fantasy fiction that it is difficult to remember the names of all the authors I like, and trawling through these lists I am reminded of so many of them:

List of science-fiction authors

The page has links - in the box on the right hand side and also a list of links at the bottom of the page - to other pages such as:

Fantasy fiction article

Alternate history fiction article

and a range of specific genres within Sci-Fi and horror fiction.

I'm reminded of a few authors who have strayed into Sci-Fi from mainstream fiction.

One of my all-time favourite mainstream fiction authors is Margaret Atwood who wrote The Handmaid's Tale, and Oryx and Crake in 2003, the first novel in a series including The Year of the Flood (2009) and MaddAddam (2013).

Subject: RE: BS: Sci-Fi and/or fantasy authors
From: Bill D
Date: 30 Apr 22 - 10:45 AM

"could be under the umbrella of Sci-Fi. "

I see he's not included in the list in Wikipedia.

Like 'folk', some umbrellas are a bit large to suit me. ;>)

Categories are always pretty subjective... I like lots of sub-categories in order to clarify...even if just to myself... what I refer to.

(I did learn from that list that even good ol' Theodore Sturgeon was a pen name.)

Subject: RE: BS: Sci-Fi and/or fantasy authors
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 30 Apr 22 - 10:59 AM

One you won't probably have heard of because she generally writes literary novels is Louise Erdrich's dystopian Future Home of the Living God. I'm sending you the link via my favorite place for book lists, a British site called Fantastic Fiction that has performed the wonderful task of listing any given author's books in the order (and by series) in which they were written. I know, you can go to Wikipedia or someplace for any specific bibliography, but they are all here in one amazing place (and they'll let you sign up for notices if an author publishes a new one and they aren't Amazon, trying to sell you a gazillion things until then - e.g. "because you liked X . . . ")

Subject: RE: BS: Sci-Fi and/or fantasy authors
From: Helen
Date: 30 Apr 22 - 03:01 PM

Bill D, I doubt whether a couple of novels out of a total of almost 30 written by Nevil Shute would qualify him to be entered on a list of speculative fiction writers, so personally I wouldn't count him in that list either. My point was that some mainstream authors sometimes stray into the speculative genre.

Subject: RE: BS: Sci-Fi and/or fantasy authors
From: Jeri
Date: 30 Apr 22 - 03:26 PM

Since no one's mentioned him yet, and at least a couple of us here are fans, Charles De Lint.
He writes fantasy, or what's been called "Urban Fantasy". He also plays fiddle. I ended up buying one of his books twice, because there were pages of fiddle tunes he'd written in the back. ("The Little Country") Many of his books feature musicians.

Subject: RE: BS: Sci-Fi and/or fantasy authors
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 30 Apr 22 - 03:42 PM

> My point was that some mainstream authors sometimes stray into the
> speculative genre.

It's slightly worse than that, Helen: as soon as someone who's highly rated in more literary genres produces something which might be called SF, They Who Write The Rules sniff loudly and move the goalposts. If provoked, I'll provide a link to the quote to the effect that the one foe that the Blake's 7 crew could never defeat was the BBC's "long-standing apathy towards science fiction".

Subject: RE: BS: Sci-Fi and/or fantasy authors
From: Helen
Date: 30 Apr 22 - 04:00 PM

MaJoC the Filk, I guess you are right. Although wasn't Dr Who a Beeb production? Nearly 60 years ago and still powering on. It can't be that bad for business. LOL

Subject: RE: BS: Sci-Fi and/or fantasy authors
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 01 May 22 - 11:47 AM

Dr Who was always a Beeb production, but that didn't stop it deteriorating with age and neglect, twice now. SF has always been popular with Real People, and therefore a bit declassé, so it doesn't have sufficient snob value with Them Up Top. They love the money it brings in, but, this side of the pond at least, they can't bring themeselves to admit they like it for itself to each other.

Meanwhile, books by Agatha Christie continue to be televised, despite (as Terry Pratchett pointed out) the stories being set in just as unreal a setting as SF: it's just a fantasy about the past. Now if we could launch the idea that SF is reminiscing about the future .... :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Sci-Fi and/or fantasy authors
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 01 May 22 - 12:03 PM

Simon Bestwick, who I recommended earlier, is now publishing under the name Daniel Church.

Subject: RE: BS: Sci-Fi and/or fantasy authors
From: Helen
Date: 01 May 22 - 04:15 PM

My personal view is that SF is socially responsible because by projecting current ideas, or social or political policies into the future we can see the consequences and effects on our world or our society. It helps to review the likely outcomes of decisions and hopefully proactively revise those decisions if necessary. It's easier to prevent disasters before they occur than to clean up afterwards and live with the aftermath. (As I used to keep saying to managers in my various workplaces, a lot of whom seemed to be unaware or unconcerned for the consequences of their decisions, but don't get me started on that!)

One of my favourite authors is Ursula K. LeGuin and I think that she showed a lot of social awareness in her work. Margaret Atwood's ventures into future worlds are similar. It's the effects and consequences on people which are core to her work.

I was very surprised to see Louis L'Amour's name on the wiki list of SF authors. We had so many of his western novels in our collection at the public library. I don't remember any SF titles.

Subject: RE: BS: Sci-Fi and/or fantasy authors
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 01 May 22 - 05:12 PM

Yup, Helen: thought experiments tend to use less expensive lab equipment.

Subject: RE: BS: Sci-Fi and/or fantasy authors
From: Helen
Date: 01 May 22 - 05:18 PM

They lose less lives too.

Subject: RE: BS: Sci-Fi and/or fantasy authors
From: Bill D
Date: 02 May 22 - 11:56 AM

Ursula K. LeGuin was very good, although I didn't delve into
her fantasy works.. "The Left Hand of Darkness" was as good as they come.

Subject: RE: BS: Sci-Fi and/or fantasy authors
From: Helen
Date: 02 May 22 - 04:46 PM

Bill D, I totally agree about "The Left Hand of Darkness".

Subject: RE: BS: Sci-Fi and/or fantasy authors
From: Donuel
Date: 10 May 22 - 08:03 PM

If you like a challenge try Nabokov's Pale Fire.

Subject: RE: BS: Sci-Fi and/or fantasy authors
From: Piers Plowman
Date: 10 May 22 - 10:39 PM

"Ursula K. LeGuin was very good, although I didn't delve into
her fantasy works.. "The Left Hand of Darkness" was as good as they come."

The three original Earthsea books are excellent. They are for children but can be enjoyed by adults, too. I reread them every so often.

I didn't like her later books. I felt the same way about Roger Zelazny. I liked some of his earlier books a lot, especially "Jack of Shadows".

I thought it might have been a somewhat obscure one, so I checked Wikipedia. Appparently it isn't so obscure. The article states:
"Zelazny wrote it in first draft, with no rewrites." On this subject, Truman Capote is quoted as saying "That's not writing, that's typing", (but to Jack Kerouac, not Zelazny).

Subject: RE: BS: Sci-Fi and/or fantasy authors
From: Helen
Date: 11 May 22 - 12:16 AM

I've read LeGuin's Earthsea books a few times over the years. I like them a lot.

Subject: RE: BS: Sci-Fi and/or fantasy authors
From: Neil D
Date: 11 May 22 - 02:20 AM

I always liked Asimov, particularly "The Foundation Trilogy" and Niven's "Ringworld". Lem is brilliant and I loved everything Zelazny wrote. But my favorite Sci-fi writer was Philip Jose Farmer. Books like "Riverworld", "The Other Log of Phileas Fogg" and the "Dayworld" series are extremely inventive. Even though Farmer is my favorite (Sci-fi) author, my favorite Sci-Fi novel is by little-known Clifford Simak, a tome called "City". I love it because it is not only a science fiction novel but it is also a series of dog stories.

Subject: RE: BS: Sci-Fi and/or fantasy authors
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 11 May 22 - 01:06 PM

Neil Gaiman and Terry Pratchett's Good Omens: The Nice and Accurate Prophecies of Agnes Nutter, Witch is a marvelous fantasy-type novel that always works to improve my mood by the time I finish it.

Subject: RE: BS: Sci-Fi and/or fantasy authors
From: Donuel
Date: 11 May 22 - 01:47 PM

Which authors have avoided the absurd assumptions that would allow for the possibility of communication with aliens of a different evolution.
Learning that perceptions would most likely be very different.

For example when a dolphin is in the air it is half blind because in the water it uses sonar that sees inside our bodies like our micro sound machines that we use on pregnant women. Or dwarf stars that last longer than the sun allowing for longer evolution would create eyes more in the infrared that is their predominant wavelength. Sound is the most unlikely thing we could have in common perception wise imo.

Subject: RE: BS: Sci-Fi and/or fantasy authors
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 11 May 22 - 02:02 PM

Good Omens is brilliant, SRS. have you seen the TV series too? I thought it was a good adaptation and the charecterisations by David Tennant and Michael Sheen were wonderful.

Subject: RE: BS: Sci-Fi and/or fantasy authors
From: Helen
Date: 11 May 22 - 03:58 PM

Good Omens was my introduction to Terry Pratchett and Neil Gaiman.

I loved it, and there beginneth my story of addiction to Pratchett. And I confess to tempting others around me to the same addiction. Mea culpa! LOL

I have the Good Omens series on DVD and I enjoyed it but the initial joy of discovering Pratchett when I read the book overtakes the enjoyment of watching the series.

Subject: RE: BS: Sci-Fi and/or fantasy authors
From: Piers Plowman
Date: 11 May 22 - 03:59 PM

"Which authors have avoided the absurd assumptions that would allow for the possibility of communication with aliens of a different evolution.
Learning that perceptions would most likely be very different."

Philip K. Dick in at least one short story and maybe more. If anyone really wants to know, which one or ones, I could check the books out of the library and try to find them. I wouldn't mind reading them again.

Stanislaw Lem as well.

"For example when a dolphin is in the air it is half blind because in the water it uses sonar that sees inside our bodies like our micro sound machines that we use on pregnant women."

I never!

Subject: RE: BS: Sci-Fi and/or fantasy authors
From: Piers Plowman
Date: 11 May 22 - 04:02 PM

When I was still going to the children's room at the library, I was always tempted by the books by John Christopher. I read a couple but they never really grabbed me. Then (as an adult) I saw the TV series "The Tripods" and liked it very much. I then read the books and liked them, too.

Subject: RE: BS: Sci-Fi and/or fantasy authors
From: Donuel
Date: 11 May 22 - 04:50 PM

I gonna watch good omens now...

Subject: RE: BS: Sci-Fi and/or fantasy authors
From: Donuel
Date: 11 May 22 - 05:05 PM

eww I'm more of a 'The Good Place' fan.

Subject: RE: BS: Sci-Fi and/or fantasy authors
From: Helen
Date: 11 May 22 - 05:55 PM

Donuel, your link didn't work for me so I searched for it:

Cheshire Cat

Subject: RE: BS: Sci-Fi and/or fantasy authors
From: Donuel
Date: 11 May 22 - 06:29 PM

Thanks, perhaps I am glitchy right now. This Sunday we will have a near lunar eclipse (the flower moon) which will be a a reddish peach color.

Subject: RE: BS: Sci-Fi and/or fantasy authors
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 11 May 22 - 06:29 PM

Don, I have the audiobook of Good Omens. I keep forgetting about the recent Tennant version, I should watch it. It helps to know what's going on, I think, and you get that from the book or audiobook.

Subject: RE: BS: Sci-Fi and/or fantasy authors
From: Bill D
Date: 11 May 22 - 06:59 PM

Philip Jose Farmer is/was a real mixed bag. He was 'creative', but he bit off more then he could chew as he developed Ringworld.
   Some absolutely amazing ideas taken to conceptual incoherence.
I know.. 'de gustibus non disputandem est', and YMMV. I am reminded of the philosophical logical fallacy "ex falso [sequitur] quodlibet, 'from falsehood, anything [follows]"
   In Farmer's case, it suggests that the very 'creative' aspects of his ideas led to such hard-to-follow story lines that they seem to just be whims that he expanded like improvised jazz, but with far less rules.
   I suspect that his mind was a strange place to contemplate, and this is borne out by his stories such as "Strange Relations" and novels like "Blown". http://www.pjfarmer.com/WORKS-books-blown.html
I am NOT advocating censorship, but merely noting that much of his stories don't seem to "me" to fit what *I* call science-fiction. I am not alone in that feeling.

Subject: RE: BS: Sci-Fi and/or fantasy authors
From: Neil D
Date: 12 May 22 - 12:51 AM

Bill D, Larry Niven wrote "Ringworld". Did you mean to say "Riverworld"?

Subject: RE: BS: Sci-Fi and/or fantasy authors
From: Bill D
Date: 12 May 22 - 01:44 PM

Urk.. of course.. I even mentioned Ringworld earlier. Fingers faster that brain sometimes.

Subject: RE: BS: Sci-Fi and/or fantasy authors
From: Donuel
Date: 12 May 22 - 04:39 PM

I liked the low gravity of Ringworld but lost interest.
I like The Good Place but not Good Omens.
Decades later I even like Ike.

Subject: RE: BS: Sci-Fi and/or fantasy authors
From: Donuel
Date: 12 May 22 - 08:37 PM

my local cosmologist

Subject: RE: BS: Sci-Fi and/or fantasy authors
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 13 May 22 - 09:27 AM

Donuel:
Which authors have avoided the absurd assumptions that would allow for the possibility of communication with aliens of a different evolution.
Learning that perceptions would most likely be very different.
"Project Hail Mary" by Andy Weir (author of 'The Martian')
This is his second book, and shortlisted for this year's Hugo awards.
Most of the book deals with interactions between just one earthman, and one eridanian (sightless, and communicating by musicality)

Subject: RE: BS: Sci-Fi and/or fantasy authors
From: Mrrzy
Date: 13 May 22 - 05:09 PM

Asimov wrote some scifi murder mysteries

Subject: RE: BS: Sci-Fi and/or fantasy authors
From: Amergin
Date: 13 May 22 - 06:16 PM

Living in Portland, I got to meet Ursula Le Guin once at a poetry reading. I wish I had the sense to take our picture together, like I did with John Prine, but I did get her autograph.

As for science fiction, I can't recommend Jeff Vandermeer enough. His Southern Reach trilogy is brilliant and strange, very well written. The first one (Annihilation) was made into a film, but as is often the case, the book is miles better.

Also for something along the lines of On the Beach, Cormac McCarthy's The Road is amazing. The writing...holy shit, the writing, the format, everything to create a sense of plodding and dread through out the story. My god, that man can write.

Subject: RE: BS: Sci-Fi and/or fantasy authors
From: Amergin
Date: 13 May 22 - 06:16 PM

Oh and for other authors who strayed into the speculative realm, look at Jack London and his Iron Heel.

Subject: RE: BS: Sci-Fi and/or fantasy authors
From: Neil D
Date: 14 May 22 - 03:49 PM

Sir Arthur Conan Doyle wrote a handful of sci-fi novels.

Subject: RE: BS: Sci-Fi and/or fantasy authors
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 May 22 - 12:08 PM

I just read "Treacle Walker" by Alan Garner and it was a treat. Short but very enjoyable. Highly recommended.

Subject: RE: BS: Sci-Fi and/or fantasy authors
From: Helen
Date: 17 May 22 - 06:11 PM

Dave the Gnome, Alan Garner is one of my favourite authors. I have a few of his books.

Tonight on TV in Oz the movie A Scanner Darkly will be aired. It's an animated version based on a story by Philip K. Dick. I think that might be the story that I tried to read but the drugs theme put me off, so I'll watch the movie and then read the story properly.

Subject: RE: BS: Sci-Fi and/or fantasy authors
From: Mrrzy
Date: 18 May 22 - 02:07 PM

Larry Niven characters sang great songs, too

Subject: RE: BS: Sci-Fi and/or fantasy authors
From: Joe_F
Date: 21 May 22 - 05:33 PM

Some of the most memorable sf was written by people who were not sf authors, such as Rudyard Kipling ("Easy as ABC" -- a Tory Anarchist utopia) and E. M. Forster ("The Machine Stops" -- anticipates the Internet).

Subject: RE: BS: Sci-Fi and/or fantasy authors
From: Donuel
Date: 21 May 22 - 07:30 PM

While I like the easy flow of Niven I enjoy realism in the mix of new technologies that may or may not be neutral since science is definetly effected by ideology. No one knows if the intrinsic good in people will outweigh the bad. Werner von Braun comes to mind. We have recovered some V2's from the water and the hand made engines were like a work of art made by slave labor. Nazi science invented things like the electron microscope and unspeakable horrors in biological experiments against people's will.

Societies ideology knows what has killed hundreds of millions of people while nuclesr weapons and production has probably only killed an undocumented 10's of millions. Tobbacco has killed hundreds of millions.

Subject: RE: BS: Sci-Fi and/or fantasy authors
From: Stanron
Date: 21 May 22 - 09:06 PM

Anyone remember E E Doc Smith? I once nearly missed my bus stop because I didn't want to stop reading.

Subject: RE: BS: Sci-Fi and/or fantasy authors
From: Mrrzy
Date: 23 May 22 - 10:42 AM

"Some have harsh words
For this man of renown
But some say our attitude
Should be one of gratitude
Like the widows and cripples
In old London town
Who owe their large pensions
To Werner von Braun."

Sorry.

Subject: RE: BS: Sci-Fi and/or fantasy authors
From: keberoxu
Date: 27 May 22 - 09:57 PM

Excellent!
I was hoping that somebody besides me would remember
E. M. Forster's "The Machine Stops."

the late Doris Lessing made a rather noisy foray into
fantasy fiction, I remember reading some of it.
Of course she is an eminent writer and had something to say,
but her arrogance made me uneasy:
she was composing myths, and she KNEW IT. A bit much.

Subject: RE: BS: Sci-Fi and/or fantasy authors
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 28 May 22 - 03:13 AM

Donuel, 11th May:

> Which authors have avoided the absurd assumptions that would allow
> for the possibility of communication with aliens of a different
> evolution.

I'd have replied to that earlier, but I've been busy rereading Vernor Vinge's A Deepness In The Sky, which includes a portrayal in depth of some of the most alien aliens I've ever encountered; much of the plot turns on the problems of communication, and the (very alien but oh-so-human) way the humans overcome them. Good classic-style hard SF, with the necessary strong moral compass, and not a telepath in sight. (It also includes an all-but-direct reference to my favourite computer operating system, but that's one for the nerds.)

Subject: RE: BS: Sci-Fi and/or fantasy authors
From: Mrrzy
Date: 29 May 22 - 11:06 AM

Larry Niven was all over that issue.

The scene with the Trinoc (I thought you were a gambler. / I gambled that you could only see out of the front of your head.) comes to mind.

Subject: RE: BS: Sci-Fi and/or fantasy authors
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 29 May 22 - 11:47 AM

There was also a Star Trek NG episode where the translation machines worked perfectly, but understanding was impossible: the aliens* spoke totally in metaphors, and there was no mutual cultural traction. You can see the same effect in real life when nerds talk in jargon in a non-technical context, something which it's taken taking me a lifetime to stop doing.

* PS: I mistyped that as "apians", but realised that's us. Oook.

Subject: RE: BS: Sci-Fi and/or fantasy authors
From: keberoxu
Date: 01 Jun 22 - 07:29 PM

Author Janny Wurts,
who collaborates with Raymond Feist on occasion,
has just announced to her readers at her webpages
the completion of the final book in her series,
The Wars of Light and Shadow.
It's book number eleven, if I recall right.

Fantasy to the max, with dragons, unicorns, necromancers, oh, my.
People who don't like Janny Wurts's writing REALLY don't like her.
I believe that she is a bit of a frustrated attorney.
One of the things that takes so much ink and paper in her writing
is how she makes a case for this character or that situation,
arguing their cause ... and then turns the whole thing on its ear.

Her fascination with the subtle vibrations in music interests me.

Subject: RE: BS: Sci-Fi and/or fantasy authors
From: robomatic
Date: 05 Jun 22 - 06:18 PM

I experienced a sort of sci-fi/ technobabble/ fantasy repetitive experience for several yers in the early 80s. Whenever I was in a Chinese restaurant with others at the table, there was always a table within earshot with four engineers talking about computers. This went on for a few years, and resolved itself for good when I found myself AT THAT TABLE.

Meanwhile Mrrzy in honor of Lehrer and Von Braun:

"You too can be a big hero
Once you've learned to count down to zero
'In German or English, I know how to count down-
And I'm learning Chinese!'
Says Werner Von Braun"

Subject: RE: BS: Sci-Fi and/or fantasy authors
From: Senoufou
Date: 06 Jun 22 - 03:13 AM

My niece Emily is a language expert (she speaks several languages, including Japanese for some reason!)
Not long ago she announced that she now speaks Klingon. My sister and her are Startrek mad, the pair of them. My sister is madly in love with Mr Spock. (Isn't he the Vulcan one with the pointy ears?)

Subject: RE: BS: Sci-Fi and/or fantasy authors
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 06 Jun 22 - 05:32 AM

robomatic> technobabble

Strictly speaking, if they were real engineers, what they would have been talking would have been hackish. Technobabble is spoken (loudly) by those who don't know what they're talking about, eg middle management. Technobabble is also the title of a book mentioned in the bibliography of The New Hacker's Dictionary, along with Stan Kelly-Bootle's book (now retitled The Computer Contradictionary).

And looping back to music, I didn't realise till much later that Stan K-B was one of the founding fathers of Cambridge's folk scene, as well as working in what we now call Computer Science, so he was fully entitled to write computer filk. But that's perhaps the subject of a separate thread.