Help: Russian vocabulary

Subject: Russian vocabulary
From: Sourdough
Date: 30 Apr 00 - 06:14 PM

I'm looking for a literal translation into Russian of the words "green" and "field" as in "a green field".

If language skills include a bit of Polish, I would love to fine a word, in Polish, that sounds like "Chervonne" or "Shevonne" meaning red or red head.

All help gratefully accepted.

Sourdough

Subject: RE: Help: Russian vocabulary
From: katlaughing
Date: 30 Apr 00 - 06:35 PM

I don't know if this will help or not, but if you click here, it will take you to some dictionaries.

I won't see my brother until tomorrow, but if nobody has posted an answer by then for the Russian one, I'll ask him. That's what he did in the Army SA.

kat

Subject: RE: Help: Russian vocabulary
From: Sourdough
Date: 30 Apr 00 - 07:30 PM

dear littlekaykat:

The distionary site you recommended is amazing. It had both English-Russian and English-Polish dictionaries (it even has Russian Swahili dictionary if that's what you fancy.)

I found what I needed in the Polish dictionary but I am stuck on the Russian words because there was no guide on pronounciation. I could still use help from your brother or from another person knowlegable in Russian.

What was really fascinating were some of the links from that dictionary page. This is a great site, I think, for people who love words. It is apparently run by a group of linguists whose enthusiasm for their subject is very evident on their home page, "Fun With Language".

I know there are a lot of people around the Cat who love words, their history, development, and the like. This might be a terrific site for them. I've bookmarked it and when I have some time I will explore it further. Thanks.

Here is the direct link to the Fun with WOrds site:

http://www.yourdictionary.com/fun.html (sorry I can't make it a one-step process)

Sourdough

Subject: RE: Help: Russian vocabulary
From: katlaughing
Date: 30 Apr 00 - 07:39 PM

Thanks, SD, it is a great site and I found out about it, right here on the Mudcat, from some udder Mudder!

ere is that a href=http://www.yourdictionary.com/fun.html >one-step process, darlin'.

lilkaykatbeamingagreatbigsmile

Subject: RE: Help: Russian vocabulary
From: Crowhugger
Date: 30 Apr 00 - 08:05 PM

Hi, sourdough,

I e-mailed a friend who might be able to help in Russian. His mother tongue is Polish, but he knows some Russian too. I expect he's pretty busy with family and work life etc. but maybe he'll drop a line.

CH.

Subject: RE: Help: Russian vocabulary
From: Sourdough
Date: 30 Apr 00 - 09:32 PM

Thank you Crowhugger. Sourdough

Subject: RE: Help: Russian vocabulary
From: GUEST,Former Russki Spy
Date: 30 Apr 00 - 10:31 PM

Ha Ha, I used to be in military intelligence and learned how to speak Russian way back when.

The word for 'green' in russian is 'zelenie'. Its pronounced zel (as in sell but with a z rather than an s. enie -- e has a couple of dots over (forgot what that's call-- so its prounounced like yo as in yo-yo. nie -- just like knee zell yo knee accent on the 'yo.

But the ending changes with the gender of the noun.

'Field' is polye -- like in 'pole' and 'yea!' Accent on first syllable though.

pole' yea

Put them together though

Zelenoe polye. Masculine adjective gets 'oe' ending.

'oe' is pronounced as 'oy' in 'boy' 'e' sounds like 'yeah'

'oy-yeah'

In the end you get:

Zel-yo-noy-yeah (accent on 'yo') Pole-yea (accent on Pole).

Hope this helps.

Subject: RE: Help: Russian vocabulary
From: Sourdough
Date: 01 May 00 - 12:25 AM

Thank you for your translation. Perhaps you could go a bit further. Is there a Russian surname that would translate to "Greenfield".

There was a Dr. Garfield who played a very signifcant role in US medical history. His father was from the Ukraine and the family name, according to their family lore, was originally the Russian for Green Field. Do Russian names translate the same way that many Western European names do, into trade and place names? If so, what would Greenfield be? Zel-yo-noy-yeah Pole-yea does not sound like a surname.

I am writing a biography of the man and would like to uncover a good possibility of what the original name was.

Sourdough

Subject: RE: Help: Russian vocabulary
From: Sorcha
Date: 01 May 00 - 01:48 AM

ah, the truth will out here, sounds to me like a Jewish name, and might have been either Yiddish or Hebrew, most of both were changed to somehthing else. Somehow, I thought perhaps you were trying to translate lyrics to "Greenfields of America".......don't know just why I thought that. Trans literation for names doesn't always work. And BTW, I did find the Cryllic for both green and field, but I didn't think it would help, (and it wouldn't have) so didn't post it.

Subject: RE: Help: Russian vocabulary
From: katlaughing
Date: 01 May 00 - 11:30 AM

Former Russki Spy, did you go to the Presidio in Monterey?

Subject: RE: Help: Russian vocabulary
From: Sourdough
Date: 01 May 00 - 01:10 PM

Sorcha:

Yes, but will the name from Ukranian Jewish family be Yiddish? WOuldn't it be a form of Russian name? For instance, a German Jewish name might be Steinberg but the name is made up of German words. The name is identifiable as Jewish but the words are German. Wouldn't that be the same in this case, the name would be identifiable as Jewish but would be in Ukrainian or Russian?

Sourdough

Subject: RE: Help: Russian vocabulary
From: GUEST,"Former Russki Spy"
Date: 02 May 00 - 09:10 PM

Sorry I can't help you on a possible name "Greenfield".

I remember one of my teachers was Mr. Lebedev -- which translates literally to swan. When he came to America he changed his name to Swanson.

I doubt Mr./Ms. Greenfield translates literally into Russian.

Subject: RE: Help: Russian vocabulary
From: Crowhugger
Date: 03 May 00 - 04:06 AM

FRS,

My best bet is that it does convert. The Polish surname, Polak, is from the same root as 'pole' (pron. po'-leh) meaning field. And the Polish word for 'green' is along the lines of the Russian but escapes me right now...it's been a couple of years since I was immersed in the language. Didn't have to go to Poland either, just to Mississauga.

CH.

Subject: RE: Help: Russian vocabulary
From: AKS
Date: 03 May 00 - 04:18 AM

I think that 'Greenfield' (or Grün(en)feldt) would be in Russian something like 'Zelenopolevoy' or '-polevaya' if female, stress on -vo/va. I've never met such a name but again that guarantees nothing!

In imperial Russia since Ekaterina II's days, the jews were allowed (in principle) to live only in towns in a zone that reached from the Black Sea to the Baltic (present day's Ukraine, Moldova, White Russia, Poland, Lithuania, Latvia etc). Most of them spoke Jiddish as their mother tongue, so names presumably were mostly Jiddish also.

And to be precise, Spy, it's 'Lebedev' that translates litarally to 'Swanson' (being the old possessive form meaning 'of swan').

AKS

Subject: RE: Help: Russian vocabulary
From: Sourdough
Date: 03 May 00 - 11:28 AM

The man in question, now deceased, was the founder of the Kaiser Permanente Medical Care Program. He is the son of a Jew from the Ukraine, near Kiev.

It is possible that the name was a Germanic-Yiddish one in which case Grunfeldt or some cognate is a good guess.

This may be as far as I can go with this unless I get some addition information form birth records.

Sourdough

Subject: RE: Help: Russian vocabulary
From: GUEST,Volgodon
Date: 07 Nov 07 - 02:54 PM

Lugovoy (~ovaya) is the adjective form of meadow and also a surname. Unless the person was a Russian Jew and called Grenfeldt, I think meadows is the likely option.
Chernvoniy is the Ukranian (and old Slavic) adjective for 'red'. Ten rouble bills are nicknamed chervonets because they used to be a red colour.

Subject: RE: Help: Russian vocabulary
From: Wilfried Schaum
Date: 08 Nov 07 - 03:29 AM

Former Russian Spy - masculine is zelenyi, but since pole is neuter, it is zelenoe.

Greenfield sounds definitely Jewish when from the Ukraina; in Yiddish it is Grinfeld (111.000 hits with Google.)

High German form: Gruenfeld (or the u with a trema)