Non-Music: Cyclical Depression

Subject: Non-Music: Cyclical Depression
From: Mrrzy
Date: 28 Dec 00 - 04:54 PM

Well, I looked at the "bummed out" thread, and that was about 6 months ago, so at least the cycle is getting longer, especially since I had an excuse then.

Life sucks. Please tell me why I should live it.

Not a Red Alert, guys, I'm not at that stage and haven't been since 1987, but things are really quite bad and I could really use a little help from my friends...

Does that make it a musical thread after all?

Subject: RE: Non-Music: Cyclical Depression
From: Sorcha
Date: 28 Dec 00 - 05:15 PM

Seasonal Affective Disorder, mrzzy. You probably need more "full spectrum light" than you are getting.....regular light bulbs and flourescents don't do it. Ask your doc or pharmacist about them. They do help.

Subject: RE: Non-Music: Cyclical Depression
From: Bardford
Date: 28 Dec 00 - 05:30 PM

"Life sucks. Please tell me why I should live it."
Well, for starters, I counted 903 postings by you to Mudcat since March of this year. (I didn't read them all at this sitting, but it would be an interesting, if somewhat voyeuristic excercise.) I'm assuming those posts were read by at least one person, but it's likely far more than that. I will also go out on a limb and suggest that there was something of value to somebody in each of those posts. So right there you've touched 900 people. That's 900 people you've never even met! You may never know what wonderful crops may sprout from the seeds you've planted with those 903 posts. I don't know about where you you live, but here in Bedford Falls, connecting with people is an important job, and somebody's got to do it. May as well be you.
Peace, Bardford

Subject: RE: Non-Music: Cyclical Depression
From: Ebbie
Date: 28 Dec 00 - 05:41 PM

Bardford, that's great.

Ebbie

Subject: RE: Non-Music: Cyclical Depression
From: Sorcha
Date: 28 Dec 00 - 05:48 PM

Because if you don't live it you only have the one other choice......and then you will create unbelievable guilt and anger in your family, friends,and others. Trust me, we just went through the "Other"......Your sons could very easily never forgive you. Do you want to add that to your Karmic Load?

Subject: RE: Non-Music: Cyclical Depression
From: Dave (the ancient mariner)
Date: 28 Dec 00 - 05:58 PM

Dedicate your life to making the lives of others safer and happier. What you give to others, you will receive back tenfold. That will improve the quality of your life; and give immeasurable comfort to your own soul. Yours, Aye. Dave

Subject: RE: Non-Music: Cyclical Depression
From: Susan-Marie
Date: 28 Dec 00 - 06:03 PM

Because things have been bad before, and they have gotten better - they will this time too.

Because there's still more music to hear and learn and sing/play.

Because right now someone is writing or recording a song that will make you shiver with delight the first time you hear it - but ya gotta stick around to hear it.

And now, a group hug for everyone with the post-holiday mid-winter whatever-the-reason blues....

Subject: RE: Non-Music: Cyclical Depression
From: GUEST,Steve
Date: 28 Dec 00 - 06:10 PM

I'm a clinical social worker and seasonal affective disorder can occur in these times. And there is a co relation between sunlight and mood. Brighter is cheerier. Bottom line - Only you can find the thread to continue with life. As a Lakota told me one day - "Today is the only day you will get today - it is your choice as to how you utilize this day that the Creator has provided." So choose wisely! After all it really is "Just another gorgeous day in paradise."

Subject: RE: Non-Music: Cyclical Depression
From: Hollowfox
Date: 28 Dec 00 - 06:12 PM

I value your posts, and I'd miss them. When I feel down I give myself Something To Do, something small that I can finish. Often it's just lighting a candle. The light helps, and makes the world prettier. Once I got a bunch of really ugly colored candles at a garage sale, and I saw them as a metaphor for burning c**p out of my life.

Subject: RE: Non-Music: Cyclical Depression
From: GUEST,Sluefoot Sue
Date: 28 Dec 00 - 06:19 PM

If that is the esteemed SL, listen to him. He has written a dozen or so books!!!!!! Get a good night's sleep. Enough good quality sleep is the single most important factor in emotional well-being...SS

Subject: RE: Non-Music: Cyclical Depression
From: Amergin
Date: 28 Dec 00 - 06:21 PM

Mrrzy, if you want to talk with some one, I am a good listener. (or so I have been told) PM me.

Amergin

Subject: RE: Non-Music: Cyclical Depression
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 28 Dec 00 - 06:32 PM

And I thought cyclical depression was when some one stole your mountain bike.... *BG*

Been there, done that: keep talking to people, a problem shared isn't always a problem halved, but it sure makes sure you ain't the only one miserable about it!!

Take care, go pop some bubble wrap - does it for me! Imagine each bubble is something you're having trouble with, and then squeeze the living daylights out of it!

LTS

Subject: RE: Non-Music: Cyclical Depression
From: kendall
Date: 28 Dec 00 - 06:41 PM

Man! do I understand your plight...sometimes life does suck. However, the other option is a permanent solution to a temporary problem. Besides, if you check out before your time, you must come back as a public servant!

Subject: RE: Non-Music: Cyclical Depression
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 28 Dec 00 - 06:43 PM

Excuse me.... Are you insinuating that just because I have worked in local government and am now a Civil (pause for hysterical laughter) Servant, that I checked out early in a previous life?? I'm sure I would have remembered.....

**BG**

LTS

Subject: RE: Non-Music: Cyclical Depression
From: Troll
Date: 28 Dec 00 - 07:39 PM

Kendall! You weren't supposed to tell!
Talk helps me. So does having a job to do. For me, It's physical labor.
I've been where you are and it sucks big time. But it always slacks off and things improve.
Checking out IS an option but it's pretty final. They are coming up with more and more information about our shared problem every day and a cure-if not final at least partial- may be just around the corner.
PM me if you need to talk.

troll *public servant.Sheesh!*

Subject: RE: Non-Music: Cyclical Depression
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 28 Dec 00 - 07:46 PM

I was hoping to create a music tie-in for this thread by posting the lyrics to "Someone Else's Blues" by David Bromberg (as sung on his album "Wanted Dead or Alive," Columbia 32717, 1974) - but after an Internet search, I came up empty-handed. If anyone else can supply them, I'd be grateful.

That song is the most insightful song about depression I know, because it shows how you can feel depressed even when everything is apparently going well.

I fought depression most of my life until I started taking Zoloft. I can't promise it will work for you, but it worked for me. I only have 3 pieces of advice:

1. Get yourself to a shrink right away. Don't let your HMO shunt you into counseling until a shrink has evaluated you first.
2. When you talk to the shrink (or psychiatric nurse, who might act as a triage agent) be brutally honest. If you have ever thought about suicide, say so. (I used to think about it a lot, but I never mentioned it to anyone because I didn't want to alarm them. This was stupid.)
3. If you have already taken care of items 1 and 2, and you are just waiting for the drugs (or whatever) to kick in, then there is nothing left to do but pamper yourself. Do the same thing you would do if you had the flu, and wait it out. Pampering yourself won't make depression or the flu go away any sooner, but why add to your burdens by taking on any more responsibilities that you have to?

Subject: RE: Non-Music: Cyclical Depression
From: CarolC
Date: 28 Dec 00 - 08:24 PM

I don't have any good advice about depression. When I get depressed, it's more situational than cyclical. But I know that you wouldn't want to put your children through the kind of hell people live with when their loved ones take their own lives.

That kind of thing stays with people for the rest of thier lives. And it also increased the chances that they, themselves will do the same.

So even if you can't see a good reason to keep living for yourself, maybe you can see the good in doing it for someone else.

Good luck,

Carol

Subject: RE: Non-Music: Cyclical Depression
From: Sorcha
Date: 28 Dec 00 - 08:30 PM

As MattR, the entity formerly known as Mbo would say,
ZOLOFT ROOLZ!
Seriously, I can't see any side effects what so ever. I think I am doing GREAT, Just Fine thank you, and try to stop taking it, and there I am in the PITS again.

So, I have decided, (finally!) that it will be a life-long thing.

Subject: RE: Non-Music: Cyclical Depression
From: Amos
Date: 28 Dec 00 - 08:35 PM

Skip the (*&%#$ shrink. They aren't worth the parchment in most cases.

Grab yourself by the collar and go out and learn something different. Really different. Learn to weld, or do HTML or clog dance or nursing injections or Mac maintenance or breadboard cirtcuit soldering, or SCUBA dive or fly a plane, as long as it is different. Kick your butt along until you start getting the hang of whatever it is. Don't take NO for an answer.

Then lemme know how its going.

A

Subject: RE: Non-Music: Cyclical Depression
From: Amergin
Date: 28 Dec 00 - 08:36 PM

I take zoloft (my depression unfortunately is not seasonal or situational) and the only side effect I have is a slight hangover in the morning.....never had any side effects with paxil or trazadone either....Mrrzy, my offer is good permanently. Talking it out will help lance the pain. Take care.

Amergin

Subject: RE: Non-Music: Cyclical Depression
From: kendall
Date: 28 Dec 00 - 10:39 PM

Sorry Amos, but, no amount of work or other distractions will off set a chemical imbalance. What you suggest is like getting a new job instead of taking insulin if you are diabetic. However, if your depression is short term, and not clinical, then a new activity will help. By the way, I was a public servant in this life too!

Subject: RE: Non-Music: Cyclical Depression
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Dec 00 - 01:17 PM

Write a blues tune...after all, blues is about feelin' bad. Then play it. As weird as it sounds, playing depressing music will make you feel better. If it weren't so, millions of honky-tonk cowboys would've drowned in their beer a long time ago listening to all those sad songs by George Jones and Tammy Wynett...

Subject: RE: Non-Music: Cyclical Depression
From: MMario
Date: 29 Dec 00 - 02:00 PM

Mrzzy - I have fought depression most of my life. for me, counseling and the shrink didn't help. (They weren't able to tell me anything I didn't know, and I couldn't afford to have them listen for the length of time I needed. Talking to friends and relatives did help.
VENT! VENT! It's good for you!

Physical activity helped too, that's when I learned to bake bread...an activity that helped me through many a rough time. (There is something about pounding the shit out of kneading dough that gives me great satisfaction.) So did various crafts that kept me occupied enough that I didn't dwell on things but also let me feel like I was accomplishing something.

Another thing that helped me was that I truly did (do - though the lows aren't nearly so bad these last couple years) have a cyclical depression...a five week long cycle with the worst part of the down side lasting about three to five days. Once I figured that out I was able to compensate for a lot.

I still find this time of year difficult; partly because I swear my body wants to hibernate; probably partly due to the whole b-complex vitamin/sunshine/seasonal thingie; partly the freekin' holidays...a LOT of factors combine to depress people this time of year.

For me the important thing is that I have found I can moderate the effects of depression if I catch myself on the slide "down". It's still not pretty if I "miss" - but I've learned ways to cope with that too, and have friends who have learned how to help me compensate.

Subject: RE: Non-Music: Cyclical Depression
From: Wesley S
Date: 29 Dec 00 - 02:40 PM

Why is life worth living ?? Because it gives you the opportunity to clean out the garage of the little old lady next door, or make sandwiches at the local homeless shelter, or sing to some kids, or rock babies to sleep at the local hospital, take a meal to a shut-in, drop cash in the salvation army bucket, give blood at the blood bank, send a personal message via the Mudcat to someone else who is depressed so that you don't feel so alone, I could go on but I think you get the picture. I've got plenty of reasons to be depressed myself but I just don't have the time. There are too many important things to DO. Go somewhere and sing. Loud. For a long time. And then this too will pass. I'm counting on it. Good Luck.

Subject: RE: Non-Music: Cyclical Depression
From: mej
Date: 29 Dec 00 - 02:49 PM

Have you tried the herb St. John's Wort? Is has proven very helpful to some people.

There was a Mudcat thread on it last fall: http://www.mudcat.org/thread.CFM?threadID=26007

I've had some help from SJW, am currently working with homeopathy.

Best wishes, I know it's a hard road!

Mary

Subject: RE: Non-Music: Cyclical Depression
From: Amergin
Date: 29 Dec 00 - 03:04 PM

here are some links to previous discussions here...click here,here, and here.

Subject: RE: Non-Music: Cyclical Depression
From: Wesley S
Date: 29 Dec 00 - 03:12 PM

Mrrzy - Thinking over my post it was not my intent to minimize what you are feeling. If I gave that impression I'm sorry. But I do feel and activity, exersize, and doing things for other people whose needs are greater than your own is a great way to get out of a funk. Best of Luck. And drink lots of water. Wesley

Subject: RE: Non-Music: Cyclical Depression
From: Mrrzy
Date: 29 Dec 00 - 04:14 PM

Thank you all, I knew I could count on my ifriends.

Sorcha, it isn't really seasonal, and it usually isn't worse in the winter, it's just that this depressive leg happened to hit right now...
Bardford - superb. Really really good, thanks.
Sorcha(2) and Dave(tam), yes indeed, my kids are who I'm living for right now, but that is a terrible burden for them which is why I was looking for other answers...
Susan-Marie and GuestSteve, I liked both the idea that you gotta stick around to hear the music you will love, and that today is the only day you get today... that sounds like something the Navajo would say, too.
Hollowfox, what a nice thing to write, thanks, I am heartwarmed.
Sluefoot, SL who?
Amergin, c'est fort possible, et tu peux m'écrire aussi si tu veux, ça ne me gênerait pas. And thanks for the later blickies!
LtS and Kendall, quelle horreur! Thanks for the warning!
Troll, I agree, and thanks, I might.
Jim Dixon, I have a shrink, I even called her in California where she is on vacation, and I agree with Sorcha(3) - I tried to reduce my dosage when things were going well to see if things were really OK or was it the drugs and BOY did I find out, ain't gonna do that again anytime soon.
Amos, although I agree with you in principle, MY shrink is great, and I do have a chemical imbalance which requires adjustment, as kendall put it. When things are fine in the outside world, that is all that is required. But when life really does suck (by whatever standards are applied by my brain, which might have nothing to do with my mind who knows perfectly well that things aren't all that bad), they tend to suck bigger, greener donkey dicks than for people with more standard levels of serotonin.
Guest, I wish I could. Maybe I'll try again.
Wesley S, you have my heartfelt thanks and condolences. Reading your [other] post opened a logjam of repressed-during-the-holidays-for-the-sake-of-family-harmony tears, which helped TREMENDOUSLY with the depression. I relived a lot of my own fears, which of course reduced their strength tremendously. You are an inspiration to me, actually. That you would take the time to read this and post to it touches me even more. Kiss Brendan and Bretta for me.
mej, I hear about that, and also about ginko or something for my memory issues, and really ought to try them. They take some kick-in time, don't they?

I think I am mentally allergic to boredom. As long as I'm at work or with my kids or something I'm OK. As soon as it's just me, I fall apart. And I've been on vacation from work for a week and a half, and some of that time the boys were with their father, so it HAS been just me... and I've kind of used up all my favors with my local friends, so I'm really, really glad I have this whole set of ifriends to talk to! You really help. I'll check back in tomorrow.

Subject: RE: Non-Music: Cyclical Depression
From: Amergin
Date: 29 Dec 00 - 04:31 PM

Mrrzy, L'ok et vous remercient. Je pourrais juste. No problem about the blickies.

Subject: RE: Non-Music: Cyclical Depression
From: Bernard
Date: 29 Dec 00 - 05:39 PM

I have been in a deep depression for around 18 months, and only just seem to be pulling out of it.

There are different types of depression, and varying degrees to which the sufferer is affected. Advice which works for one can make another worse!!

Clinical Depression as opposed to 'the blues' or 'a funk' is chemical, and defies any attempt to joke your way out of it.

A depressive loses the ability to 'get a grip', and such advice can be destructive in its very extreme sense.

The only real help to a depressed person is a good listener who is non-judgemental.

I found that people, in trying to help, only made matters worse. They wanted me to feel better, and I'd put on a front for their sakes. That would precipitate an even bigger 'downer'...

A depressed person has lost the will to fight. It comes back in its own time, and true friends can only protect themselves until that time comes.

Try to remember that the depressed person appears selfish, and probably churlish. It isn't their fault!

I found that bright, sunny days made me feel worse, because I was unable to enjoy them.

Seasonal Affective Disorder should never be confused with other forms of depression - nor should it be dismissed out of hand. The trick is to know what helps and what doesn't.

Someone who is depressed may be helped by working hard, etc., but someone who is Clinically Depressed may not have the ability to cope, and should not be pushed. I became incapable of doing simple jobs that I would normally be able to do blindfolded...

A friend - the one who triggered my depression - tried to help me by bullying me into a positive mental attitude. She failed miserably, and we don't even speak to each other anymore. She wouldn't accept that I couldn't maintain control over my emotions...

Mrrzy - I won't say I know how you are feeling, as only you really know that. It doesn't help to say 'Lots of people suffer in the same way', either - who cares about them anyway?!! I'm the one with the problem!!

However, self-termination is a bad idea, although it seems to be the only solution at the time. Unfortunately, depression makes you feel as if nobody really cares, so you don't care about them, either. Catch 22!

It's no use trying to find books about suicide in the library - nobody ever takes them back!!

Good luck, Mrrzy, you'll need it.

Subject: RE: Non-Music: Cyclical Depression
From: Mrrzy
Date: 29 Dec 00 - 05:54 PM

LOL! Thanks, Bernard, just what I needed! Anyone for Paltalk?

Subject: RE: Non-Music: Cyclical Depression
From: GUEST,JTT
Date: 29 Dec 00 - 07:10 PM

I was in a really deep walloped depression just around the winter solstice, and as soon as the solstice came it lifted miraculously off, and I've been lepping around the hills in the snow since.

It sometimes helps to remember how very *physical* depressions are. When you're depressed you think "this is real - this pain and sadness and fear and anger are the central reality of life".

But they're not - they're central reality at the time you have them, sure, but a week later sunny happiness is the central reality.

If you're feeling that life is not worth living it may be because you've had a couple of knock-backs and feel hopeless. But that's not to say that some wonderful boost in your work and your life isn't just around the corner. What a pity to miss it just from going off in a huff from life.

It may be that you're very tired and have used up all your energy. Take a holiday, even if it's only a weekend spent hiking and hostelling somewhere beautiful - and away from your ordinary life and responsibilities.

It may be that you're short of nutrients. Take a look at your diet, and try lashing in a bit of artificial vitamin C for a start (though only in the morning: it's a wicked stimulant).

It may be that your laughter meter is low. Take out a bunch of funny videos and watch them.

But above anything remember that time really does help. If you calm down, eat and rest well, and have some fun, your mood will turn upwards again.

The human spirit is like a child, and we have a proverb in Ireland that says "Mol an oige agus tiocfaidh si" - praise youth and it will come on. Give your spirits some affection and they'll arise from the gloom.

And you can be sure, Mrzy, that the Mudcatters are thinking of you with kindly good wishes in your time of trouble.

Subject: RE: Non-Music: Cyclical Depression
From: blt
Date: 30 Dec 00 - 01:13 AM

Dear Mrrzy, I am a therapist, about to graduate from Antioch in Dance Movement Therapy. I currently work in 2 psychiatric units, one for adults (18 and older)and one for children and adolescents. After being around individuals who suffer greatly from depression, I've changed my beliefs concerning anti-depressant medications--I'm not as skeptical of them as I used to be. It seems that you have done your own research on what medications work for you, which I think is very useful. Anybody can give you advice but your own experience is probably the most valuable. It also sounds as if you know what to do when things begin to get bad, such as reaching out to others. Of all the treatments and programs and resources I've seen concerning depression, connecting in a meaningful way to another person is, in my opinion and personal experience, one of the best solutions. Depression is, I agree, tied to chemistry in the brain--however, I also believe that the chemistry and the chemicals are directly linked to many things, such as diet, fatigue, stress, exercise, relationships, trauma experiences, etc., etc. As a therapist who chose creative arts as a path toward emotional healing, both personally and professionally, I believe that music has a very special role to play when applied to depression. It is as if a musical note or frequency, which is literally an energy wave, can strike our human nervous system and "tune" it biochemically. There are specific practices which address this (such as toning, chanting, sacred singing, the use of certain modes or scales), but I was thinking in a less esoteric way of just getting out a guitar and noodling around. In a movement therapy group that I co-lead, one of the warm-up exercises that everybody seems to like, no matter how sad they appear coming into the group, is to slowly breathe in then exhale, making some sort of sound. There is no judgement about what kind, a whisper, a groan, a shrill whine, a bark, a long musical warble--even this small thing appears to help adjust the feeling of overwhelming sadness. It doesn't go away, but I believe, after talking with the folks in the group about this, that the pain simply becomes bearable, even if only for that moment. In many ways, this is what I believe folk music helps to create, whether it's blues or New Song--it's that trust that no matter how I sing what I have to sing, someone will accept me singing it, and will listen without judgement. If creative therapies interest you, I would be happy to give you more information. With warm regards, blt

Subject: RE: Non-Music: Cyclical Depression
From: AllisonA(Animaterra)
Date: 30 Dec 00 - 06:47 AM

YES! blt, very good point. Mrrzz, I can't improve on what others here have said. I am married to one who is depressive, and can say that a Better Life Thru Chemistry is the reality around here. But if you can get yourself out to a place where music is happening that you can participate in, especially singing, by all means do it. When you're in the depths it's very hard to pull yourself out, but if you can just get there, it may just help. And meanwhile you've got us loving you and singing with you!

Subject: RE: Non-Music: Cyclical Depression
From: Mrrzy
Date: 30 Dec 00 - 01:40 PM

Thanks again, all. I'm looking forward to meeting up with a few of y'all in SF next week, but I gotta tell you, my affect is still quite negative, as the jargon would have it. I'm gonna try to do some housework at least - anybody see that article on Hoarders in the Health section of the Washington Post a couple of Tuesdays ago, the week of $mas I think...? Seeing carpet would cheer me up enourmously...

Subject: RE: Non-Music: Cyclical Depression
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 30 Dec 00 - 02:37 PM

Seeing the carpet? Hey, if you find it, how do you fancy coming over here to see if you can find mine?!

Hope all goes better soon, catch up on Paltalk one day? I missed last night, too involved in TV for a change. Typical how all the good stuff comes on the one night!

LTS - and do try the bubble wrap - it's cheaper than therapy!

Subject: RE: Non-Music: Cyclical Depression
From: Mrrzy
Date: 31 Dec 00 - 11:20 AM

OK, whew, that one too has passed. I feel like someone standing on a crumbling cliff edge who had about 17,000 pairs of hands reach out and hold on... woke up this morning feeling neutral, rather than Oh shit I wish I were still unconscious, and THAT made me feel better right there! The elephant is off my chest and while I haven't actually DONE any of the things I need to do, at least the idea isn't sending me back to bed...Thank you all, I hope not to ask for this kind of help again anytime soon, but it's really, really good to know it's here.

You guys have done your good deed for the year as far as I'm concerned. Bless you.

Subject: RE: Non-Music: Cyclical Depression
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 31 Dec 00 - 11:25 AM

Neat community eh Mrrz?

Best in the new Year.

Rick

Subject: RE: Non-Music: Cyclical Depression
From: Mrrzy
Date: 31 Dec 00 - 05:14 PM

Yes indeedy, Rick!

Subject: RE: Non-Music: Cyclical Depression
From: Bernard
Date: 31 Dec 00 - 05:22 PM

Good on yer, mate!

I found a carpet in my front room the other day... there had been rumours abounding that there was one in there, under all the junk, but I didn't believe it.

Now I believe! There is a carpet! Halleluya!

As you all pass through these hallowed portals, please remember the tin marked 'For The Sick' is intended for money only!

Happy New Millennium, folks! Surely it can't be as bad as the last one? Can it?!!

Subject: RE: Non-Music: Cyclical Depression
From: mg
Date: 31 Dec 00 - 07:32 PM

you mentioned hibernation...I just read a book called lights out by wiley and formby and they talk about this exact thing..that we are animals who like to hibernate in the winter...which is why we put on fat stores etc. Recommends 9.5 hours of sleep int he winter, turning off lights early, eating caveman diet of protein and roughage, no refined or processed carbs at least in winter...relates it to depression too. If you have flourescent lights shoot them. Don't watch t.v. late at night . get up with the sun and get outside, glasses or contacts off....mg

Subject: RE: Non-Music: Cyclical Depression
From: Bernard
Date: 31 Dec 00 - 07:45 PM

Thanks, Mary - I don't want to sound disparaging, but...

Those who feel 'down' because of outside influences are the lucky ones - the way out of their depression is relatively easy.

Those of us whose depression comes from within are victims of our own capricious minds, and external influences often are totally ineffectual.

Sorry to cast a damper, but I know. I've just been there (I hope it's 'been' - maybe I'm still there, and won't find out for a few days...).

Subject: RE: Non-Music: Cyclical Depression
From: Mrrzy
Date: 31 Dec 00 - 08:50 PM

Luckily for those of us for whom a pendulum swingeth, mine hath swung in the right direction... at least I am blessed with a bipolar disorder, and if I can "wait it out" it WILL get better...
I really feel for those with just plain depression, for whom often waiting brings no relief. I'll take my particular burden.

Subject: RE: Non-Music: Cyclical Depression
From: Hardiman the Fiddler
Date: 01 Jan 01 - 12:37 PM

PLEASE SEE THE LINKS I POSTED IN THE STRESS-BURNOUT THREAD AWHILE BACK (someone please make a blicky) and then e-mail me. Offline several days. I firmly believe this is THE missing piece. And I am ALIVE today.

~Susan, on Hardiman's laptop and cookie

Subject: RE: Non-Music: Cyclical Depression
From: Mrrzy
Date: 01 Jan 01 - 04:15 PM

I'd like to see that blicky. That upswing isn't as up as I'd like it to be.

Subject: RE: Non-Music: Cyclical Depression
From: Hardiman the Fiddler
Date: 02 Jan 01 - 02:56 AM

Mrrzy, I refreshed the thread, links are in mid-thread.

~Susan munching Hardi Cookies

Subject: RE: Non-Music: Cyclical Depression
From: CarolC
Date: 02 Jan 01 - 03:18 AM

Here is the blicky for the Stress and Burnout thread. (For future reference.)

Subject: RE: Non-Music: Cyclical Depression
From: GUEST,Steve
Date: 02 Jan 01 - 05:21 PM

I don't recall who used the word "victim" in one of the posts but I really struggle with that word as it obviates responsibility. No matter the issue it is my job to find my piece of the issue and rectify it to the best of my ability.

There are chemicals in the brain that can be activated simply by getting up and doing something. The very same chemicals that medication assists with - and all psychiatric disorders are biologically based as are all wellness. The difference is in the choices we make for ourselves. And the best medicine sometimes is "Faking it till you make it" as those in AA have found as an intermediate solution.

With chronic disorders medication may be the only BASE solution - but ultimately it is the individual's responsibility to find what works in addition to the medication and then keep doing it. Mrrzy - getting off your meds was a lesson you lived not to replicate and I applaud you that lesson! And a good therapist is not one who gives you answers but one who mirrors who you are in such a way that you can see yourself in a light that facilitates recognition and hence change. I'm glad you have one of those also.

I'm not the "Famous SL" just another person who found music as a venue in which to find more life. I've written a couple of books but none that dealt with psychiatric disorders. But I have been where you were and been where you are. The thing(s) that counted the most for my sanity was, and not necessarliy in the order that worked at any particular time, my family, children, friends, musicians, music, dogs, horses, the desert, the mountains, trees, strangers, grass (the kind you walk on and that shares our breath), and this gorgeous day in paradise. Probably some I left out but you get the idea.

And I have a Navajo Brother who said the same thing about the day. It is universal. I'm glad I was part of this piece of this forum as it gave me more ideas to share with the folks who honor me with their life and an opportunity to share in the journey of change.

Have a superb day!

Subject: RE: Non-Music: Cyclical Depression
From: GUEST,Mrr
Date: 03 Jan 01 - 01:29 PM

SteveGuest, good thoughts! What books?

Subject: RE: Non-Music: Cyclical Depression
From: Melani
Date: 03 Jan 01 - 01:43 PM

Mrrzy, try diet and excercise adjustment along with your meds. Sometimes a whole-body approach works best. You may have subtle lurking food sensitivities that you're not even aware of. An alternative medicine practitioner such as an acupuncturist or herbalist may be able to advise you. Good luck. We're looking forward to seeing you in SF.

Subject: RE: Non-Music: Cyclical Depression
From: Bernard
Date: 03 Jan 01 - 01:52 PM

Just one point - 'the choices we make for ourselves' - until you've had Clinical Depression, you cannot possibly begin to comprehend that the choice isn't necessarily ours to make.

I've grown tired of people insinuating that I could 'do something about it' - I couldn't. However, that facility seems to be returning now.

Trying to 'fake it' only sent me down further, as anyone who knows me will verify. I lost the ability to 'put on a front'...

Serotonin deficiency is one reason for depression, and St. John's Wort has been clinically proved to be a natural Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitor. In other words, it is a natural alternative to Prozac (et al.), and that's official!

It worked for me when man-made chemicals only compounded my problems.

Subject: RE: Non-Music: Cyclical Depression
From: mousethief
Date: 03 Jan 01 - 02:00 PM

Exercise! Lots of time spent outdoors! Meds! Good music, good books, good food. Time.

Alex

Subject: RE: Non-Music: Cyclical Depression
From: Bernard
Date: 03 Jan 01 - 02:29 PM

It's easy to say that from the outside...

It seems to me that the memory plays tricks - maybe you forget how bad it was.

I used to go to Morris practice every week - I had the best attendance record of the side. I can't remember the last time I went... just can't be bothered.

I used to go to the folk club every week, and am one of the 'residents' - can't remember when I last went there, either.

If I have to be on my own, I may as well be on my own. Can't stand being alone in a crowd. It's less painful to stay at home, where I'm not being a burden on others.

The last thing I want to do is to do something. No music playing in the house or the car, can't concentrate long enough to read a book, not hungry - can't be bothered to cook.

Need I go on?

Advice is fine if you are ready and able to accept it!

Subject: RE: Non-Music: Cyclical Depression
From: M.Ted
Date: 03 Jan 01 - 06:42 PM

Sorry to join late--but I had to just thank Bernard for his comments above--I have saved them, because they really are simple, direct, and to the point--

I have mentioned this before, in other depression threads, so please forgive if it is wearing thin, but in the last few years, as scanning technology has made it possible to examine the brain while it is working, there are indications that depression may be connected to brain damage that has likely resulted from undetected traumas of one sort or another.

This means that depression, instead of being caused by family problems or cloudy days, or such things, is the result of physical damage to the brain. Depression is a physical disability. Not that this should be a big surprise--Most other "Physical" handicaps are really the result of one or another sort of damage to the central nervous system(the results of stroke, for instance, can include motor impairment and speech impairment).

Just like other physical handicaps, depression requires coping strategies, especially support from people who understand it, which really amounts to the others who suffer from it.

It is as absurd to tell a person who is trying to cope with depresssion symptoms to "cheer up" and get an "attitude adjustment", as it is to tell old Uncle Roy to throw away his walker and dance.

Subject: RE: Non-Music: Cyclical Depression
From: mousethief
Date: 03 Jan 01 - 06:58 PM

Um, if I recall, the first post in the thread was in fact asking for advice.

Subject: RE: Non-Music: Cyclical Depression
From: pict
Date: 03 Jan 01 - 08:34 PM

I know getting out and about and keeping physically occupied helps a lot of people.Depression has myriad reasons for appearing and many people have learnt to adjust their lives to its regular appearance so it definitely can be dealt with successfully.Any light you see head for it.

Subject: RE: Non-Music: Cyclical Depression
From: Bernard
Date: 04 Jan 01 - 12:33 PM

Alex - sometime advice can be negative. M.Ted was quite rightly pointing that out, and that is advice in itself.

A broken leg is a visible disability, albeit temporary. You can advise the person with the broken leg that they need to walk around and get some exercise, but that advice is negative as they are powerless to do so whilst in bed and in traction!

For my part, I have tried to explain to people why the advice they were giving wouldn't suit me, as a way of pointing out that depression takes different forms and directions.

I'm sorry if it has come across to some of you the wrong way, but that merely underlines the problem that depressives have to live with. Unlike a broken leg, it is invisible and insidious, and with no known timescale...

I'm not 'having a go', Alex - perhaps you could read through the postings again? You may see things differently...

Subject: RE: Non-Music: Cyclical Depression
From: mousethief
Date: 04 Jan 01 - 01:56 PM

I dunno what "having a go" means. I do know what depression is like, because I have recently (last 1-2 weeks) emerged from yet another bout. (Thank you, Effexor.) I don't believe I once said anything about "just getting over it." I was listing things that help me when I am having a depressive episode. If they don't help you, that's fine; I don't expect they'll help everybody. But it sure seemed like I was being told "nobody asked you for your advice" when in fact that's what the thread was about, asking for advice, as I pointed out.

I know that depressed people often get very snippy with others (I know I do), and maybe that is what is happening here.

Peace and healing to all who suffer from this affliction.

Alex

Subject: RE: Non-Music: Cyclical Depression
From: M.Ted
Date: 04 Jan 01 - 02:15 PM

The intention of the sort of general, vague, "positive" advice, that people who aren't suffering from depression syptoms offer is to be supportive--but it often has the opposite effect, simply because the inability to follow the advice feeds into the profound feelings of hopelessness and powerlessness that define depression.

Even mild suggestions like "get out and about" can be threatening, since, when in depressive states, many people suffer panic, dread, and extreme and situationally inappropriate fear when they go out.

Subject: RE: Non-Music: Cyclical Depression
From: pict
Date: 04 Jan 01 - 02:30 PM

Getting out and about helps some people not everyone but some,as I said depression manifests itself in different ways and can be dealt with in different ways the difficult part of dealing with it is finding out how to deal with your own particular and idiosyncratic manifestation of it and no one is the authority on dealing with it.

Subject: RE: Non-Music: Cyclical Depression
From: mousethief
Date: 04 Jan 01 - 04:29 PM

We seem to be all saying roughly the same thing but taking exception at one another. How depressing.

Subject: RE: Non-Music: Cyclical Depression
From: Bernard
Date: 04 Jan 01 - 04:40 PM

Well that's okay, then!

Funny how even depression can bring us all together!

It's frightening how commonplace depression is, though, innit?!

We each have to learn what is best for us, and it's going to be different for each of us to a greater or lesser extent...

No offence intended!! And none taken, either...

Subject: RE: Non-Music: Cyclical Depression
From: Amergin
Date: 05 Jan 01 - 12:56 AM

Excuse this little bit of self promotion here....but here is something I wrote some time ago about my experiences with depression

Amergin

Subject: RE: Non-Music: Cyclical Depression
From: GUEST,Steve
Date: 05 Jan 01 - 05:55 PM

I apologize if I wasn't clear - Fake it till you make it is at best a temporary deal. But it is part of it. And doing something about it is going to a Doctor and getting medication, talking to friends, joining a support group, or whatever else meets your individualized needs. As far as having it? I'm 60% disabled by my experiences in the Viet Nam war. For the most part depression. That is according to the Veteran's Administration and not by my account. I'm on meds for life because it works for me as does a little faking at times. It is about choice and seeking options. And unless I am dead I have choices and options - I just have to figure a way to find and do them. I know it seems hopeless at times but you are still here and you are still making choices and you are still working on it - that is what we are supposed to do. I do enjoy this forum.

Subject: RE: Non-Music: Cyclical Depression
From: mousethief
Date: 05 Jan 01 - 05:57 PM

Well said, Steve. Hope you decide to join us for the long term!

Alex

Subject: RE: Non-Music: Cyclical Depression
From: GUEST,Steve
Date: 05 Jan 01 - 06:19 PM

I will off and on as time permits. Join you that is. What I would really like to do is learn the lead in riff to Clayton Delaney. I think I have it but will go back to the record to make sure. Have a lovely weekend folks. BTW - The book I wrote is called "A Dictionary of Terms Indigenous to the Viet Nam War." The other was a presentation to the International Post Traumatic Stress Disorder conference in Washington D.C. on "Concurrent Treatment Modalities for PTSD and Alcohol related problems."