American Attacks**Part Twelve: Steady On

Subject: American Attacks**Part Twelve: Steady On
From: Amos
Date: 26 Sep 01 - 11:24 PM

Part Eleven can be found over here.

Regards,

Amos

Subject: RE: American Attacks**Part Twelve: Steady On
From: Amos
Date: 26 Sep 01 - 11:26 PM

You cannot shoot at an "-ism".

A

Subject: RE: American Attacks**Part Twelve: Steady On
From: Troll
Date: 26 Sep 01 - 11:33 PM

No, but you CAN shoot at an "ist."

troll

Subject: RE: American Attacks**Part Twelve: Steady On
From: DougR
Date: 26 Sep 01 - 11:49 PM

Donuel: I think I have read most of your posts (those that were within reason to read according to length). Methinks thou art a pot stirrer.

DougR

Subject: RE: American Attacks**Part Twelve: Steady On
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Sep 01 - 12:24 AM

Yes Doug , I am given to hyperbole , humor , satire , a search of truth , compromise and even political cartoons. If you don't occaisionaly stir the pot of ideas the bottom gets burned the top grows cold.

My favorite political cartoonist is Tom Toles.

Subject: RE: American Attacks**Part Twelve: Steady On
From: Amos
Date: 27 Sep 01 - 12:24 AM

Doug:

I think you are, too, to some degree, and me as well.

It's a Cat trait, I reckon. Or did you mean something more specific?

A

Subject: RE: American Attacks**Part Twelve: Steady On
From: GUEST,poffice
Date: 27 Sep 01 - 02:01 AM

I know this doesn't fit the current discussion but I just had to send it.

I have been reading the threads for a number of days. Most all are very good. I know many were meant to be funny to releve the stress. Well a few days ago it was asked "Where is Jesse Jackson?" Read Fox News. According to him he has been asked to get involved.

Subject: RE: American Attacks**Part Twelve: Steady On
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Sep 01 - 09:26 AM

Thanks troll, I did not even know *G* meant a grin.

The normal rules of civility is a kindness, appreciated by all.

Lately there is little voice inside that questions if it wise to say anything resembling peace and reason. It is a worry regarding the teh very freedom of speech during times of great stress.

The little voice I was referring to is the one that only just recently warns that words of peace and understanding will be ferociously attacked. You have seen it everywhere lately. Responses to words of peace recently beget words like; wussies, cowardly pacifists, misguided, unpatriotic and thinly veiled death threats.

Although I have never advocated a do nothing policy, in fact quite the opposite, some have reacted with unrestrained hostility to the very concept of reason. Case in point; I posted the very words * "we must seek a peaceful resolution lest we spiral into an ever deeper spiral of hate and war". These words were met by a barrage of hate and anger. * By a quirk of fate the Pope uttered these very words the next day.

Kahlil Gibran wrote "of what can I speak that does not already move in your own heart?" If peace and understanding are moving in the hearts of some people today, it is withered and suffering an infection of hate. You see my words are not directed solely at ourselves (the perceived victims) but the aggressors (the perceived killers) as well.

Subject: RE: American Attacks**Part Twelve: Steady On
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 27 Sep 01 - 09:50 AM

that words of peace and understanding will be ferociously attacked. You have seen it everywhere lately. Responses to words of peace recently beget words like; wussies, cowardly pacifists, misguided, unpatriotic and thinly veiled death threats.

One iteresting thing is the way that the phrase "turning the other cheek" seems increasingly to be used as a sneer. And this mostly from people who would say that they are Christians.

Subject: RE: American Attacks**Part Twelve: Steady On
From: Midchuck
Date: 27 Sep 01 - 11:39 AM

Here's the first attempt to be funny about the whole thing that has worked for me.

Harsh? Crude? Yes, but...

Peter.

Subject: RE: American Attacks**Part Twelve: Steady On
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 27 Sep 01 - 12:08 PM

I've not been keeping up with all the threads, so I don't know who's been saying what (but can guess in some cases). Anyway, having slagged GW a time or two, I thought I ought to come back here and admit that his speech to congress was pretty good. His actions too (or lack of them) have gone far beyond anything I dared hope for, when he was still in "wanted dead or alive" mode.

Anyone who wants a laugh out of the whole catastrophe need look no farther than the video footage simulating air marshalls at work. Just the sort of scenario to bring the punters flocking back to air travel. (Will hijackers who trained as pilots have to go through reskilling programs before they can work as air marshalls?)

Oh, and apparently any US Air Force general can now shoot down jumbos without recourse to the president. That's too much reasurance for one day.

Subject: RE: American Attacks**Part Twelve: Steady On
From: kendall
Date: 27 Sep 01 - 12:19 PM

Would a crashed 747 in the middle of Park Ave. be less horrible?

Subject: RE: American Attacks**Part Twelve: Steady On
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 27 Sep 01 - 12:46 PM

Midchick

Funny idea. I couldn't read it all though.

I was very worried about this to start, but Mr. Bush and Mr. Powell, seem to be talking a lot more peace and reason. I'm starting to think most of their war talk was simply to mobilize congress and the American people. The don't seem to be listening to all of the people around me clamouring for bombings and even the use of nuclear weapons. They are talking about respect for Moslems and care for the Afghani people. They are talking about not offending allies. They are talking about using all means at our disposal with the military option as a hole card.

I recently read a Tom Clancy book about Special Forces. Special Forces are trained to communicate with and train local insurgents. They are specially selected for language skills and awareness of local cultures. I am glad they are going in first. Especially before the Air Force. It bodes well.

Subject: RE: American Attacks**Part Twelve: Steady On
From: GUEST,Kim C no cookie
Date: 27 Sep 01 - 12:50 PM

So what is the deal with Jesse? Was he invited, or did he offer? I have read reports of both. I find it hard to believe that the Taliban would just pull him out of a hat and say, we want to talk to this guy...

I live in Nashville, which is near Ft. Campbell, home of the 101st Airborne. The Screaming Eagles have been in the local news EVERY DAY since Sept. 11. "This is your local news reporter live at Ft. Campbell, where soldiers are getting haircuts, vaccinations, and making sure everything is in order for a possible deployment that could come at any time. Traditionally the soldiers of the 101st Airborne are among the first to be called in a crisis." etc. etc. etc. Every day. I am not kidding.

Last night the news reported that 400 Screaming Eagles had been deployed to the wilds of ... Kentucky and Indiana, to guard chemical weapons or something like that. Part of National Defense and all. And meaning no disrespect- I know it's important to cover all our bases, but it just seemed sort of amusing after all the news hype over the last several days.

Subject: RE: American Attacks**Part Twelve: Steady On
From: Mrrzy
Date: 27 Sep 01 - 01:00 PM

I thought it was Delta forces and the SAS who were on the ground in Afghanistan...

Subject: RE: American Attacks**Part Twelve: Steady On
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Sep 01 - 01:42 PM

I just listened to Mr. Cem the Turkish Foreign Minister. He actually filled me with a glimmer of hope for a humane take on this conflict.

Jesse Jackson has assisted in other Middle East "hostage" situations. Perhaps this means of bypassing the authority of the US government is a way out for the 8 American missionaries. Or perhaps the Taliban wants 5 more weeks for the fog to cloak the mountains making it inaccesable to US aircraft...?

Subject: RE: American Attacks**Part Twelve: Steady On
From: GUEST,just a nobody
Date: 27 Sep 01 - 03:03 PM

shoulda been keeping up with this thread...

I have also heard that the president has deligated the power to shoot down civilian aircraft. Its about time. Before anyone goes nuts... think about this. Two weeks ago only the president could order the shooting down of civilian aircraft. The president may not be made aware in time to act to certain situations, such as what has happened. The Air Force typically is more aware of these things and can respond when needed. It doesn't mean open season... it does mean that it makes it harder to use our own system of mass transportation against us.

Subject: RE: American Attacks**Part Twelve: Steady On
From: GUEST,Kim C no cookie
Date: 27 Sep 01 - 03:50 PM

Listen... if I were on a plane that was about to crash into a building and kill 6000 people, and I knew that the plane could be shot down in order to avert a mass tragedy, but I might still die - please, shoot me down, and fast. It's a terrible, awful thought, but if I had to die so 6000 people could live - well, y'all, it's been nice knowing you.

Subject: RE: American Attacks**Part Twelve: Steady On
From: kendall
Date: 27 Sep 01 - 04:00 PM

I agree Kim, but, I would hope that they would shoot before the plane reached a population center. Hard to do in NY or DC.

Subject: RE: American Attacks**Part Twelve: Steady On
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 27 Sep 01 - 04:05 PM

Don't get me wrong, I'm all in favour of civilian planes being taken out if that limits the damage. But that and in-flight shoot-outs with the air marshalls (who could be people with hostile intent anyway - even just loonies like the guy in Switzerland today) both seem to be tackling the problem one step too late. Best to keep the wrong sorts, and their means of doing damage, off the planes in the first place. In my view any loaded gun on board, in anyone's hands, is only going to increase the risks to all.

Subject: RE: American Attacks**Part Twelve: Steady On
From: Amos
Date: 27 Sep 01 - 04:14 PM

"Peaceful" solutions are a first rate idea Donuel.

The ones I can think of are -- financial suffocation or starvation, concentrated alliance-building to starve them into a more amenable frame of mind (the question of who's "them" aside for the moment, a series of intense PR campaigns designed to seed the whole nation of Islam with unrest -- one, for example, fomenting a feminism movement, and one to foment the adamant and vociferous demand that the religous face if Islam be preserved from contamination by being divorced from the secular -- let's see, what other "peaceful" solutions could we come up with? Maybe we could send in waves and waves of trained pickpockets and smugglers to steal all their munitions and their boxcutters, too. Oh! Information war -- we could penetrate their networks with a combination of HUMINT and ELECINT and gradually identify and completely trash the repute and financial standing of anyone involved by trashing his accounts and starting wild black PR campaigns about his relationships with young animals...or some such.

We could smuggle Tasers and pepper gas to all the wives and mothers of Islam to use in self defense.

We could cut off all oil shipments into the... nah, never mind. Maybe we could send SOF ops in to ruin their refineries so they would have nothing but crude, which we would continue to buy, and process Stateside.

We could probably dream up all kinds of horribly embarassing circumstances that would be completely unmanning to a devout Muslim, and set them up to happen. The old naked at a cocktail party routine.

We could penetrate all their intell lines and flood them with false data until nothing they said could be trusted.

Y'know, you're right, Donuel!! I like this peaceful stuff!!

A

Subject: RE: American Attacks**Part Twelve: Steady On
From: Ebbie
Date: 27 Sep 01 - 04:28 PM

So far so good. I'm one of those who is hoping that our response will ultimately be well thought out before it is enacted.

It seems to me that the best case scenario of this situation is for the US and the rest of the civilized world to persuade/pressure host countries to expel all terrorist groups from inside their borders. Once the terrorists and wannabes are on the run, they will be far more liable to make mistakes and thus be vulnerable to capture.

I see that it is proposed that National Guardsmen be utilized as security persons at airlines. Might it not also be a good idea to train National Guard personnel as sky marshalls? They are already on the payroll, so to speak, and certainly their mindset and training is military.

Ebbie

Subject: RE: American Attacks**Part Twelve: Steady On
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 27 Sep 01 - 04:40 PM

Do the terrorists being eliminated include people who massacre the occupants of villages and spray chemical from the air that wreck the health of the local inhabitants and so forth?

That's good news for people in Columbia. And what's especially good is that stopping that sort of stuff should be pretty straightforward for Washington to do...

Subject: RE: American Attacks**Part Twelve: Steady On
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 27 Sep 01 - 04:56 PM

Mrrzy

I haven't heard about the SAS but considering there role in the gulf war it is quite likely they are there quietly.

I've only heard Mr. Bush and Mr. Powell mention the use of "Special Forces" Delta Force is under the special forces command and as their role is freeing hostages it wouldn't be surprizng to see them deployed as well.

I expect that we soon will see special forces supplying coodination and communications to Northern Alliance troops.

Subject: RE: American Attacks**Part Twelve: Steady On
From: Greg F.
Date: 27 Sep 01 - 05:20 PM

National Guard? Great idea. They did a bang-up job of defusing a tense situation at Kent State.

Subject: RE: American Attacks**Part Twelve: Steady On
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Sep 01 - 05:44 PM

Cool ideas Amos. Meanwhileback on the farm , its a go to bomb the poppy fields.

Subject: RE: American Attacks**Part Twelve: Steady On
From: Amos
Date: 27 Sep 01 - 06:03 PM

IF you are mystified about the depth of resentment that many people in the countries that are predominantly Msulim have against the United States, here is a link which explains it in detail.

One of the things it brings home, always good to remember, is that people respond to "perceived truth", not to "ground truth". Ten thousand miles away from Norfolk or San Franciso, "perceived truth" may consist of impressions of American Blackhawks and not much more -- the opportunity for key information to be missing is enormous, in other words.

The loss of a loved one can well up and become one's whole impression of the country that is assumed to be responsible, whether accurately or not.

ANother two bits in the pot.

A.

Subject: RE: American Attacks**Part Twelve: Steady On
From: SharonA
Date: 27 Sep 01 - 06:15 PM

Midchuck: Great link (to The Onion's "article"). Thank you for a much-needed good laugh.

Subject: RE: American Attacks**Part Twelve: Steady On
From: CarolC
Date: 27 Sep 01 - 07:55 PM

On the financial front, I heard on a news broadcast last night that even the Swiss banks want to cooperate. The reporter said that they didn't even wait to be asked. They offered. It appears that it will be a little more difficult to get at some of the off-shore banks, but nobody suggested that it was not possible.

Subject: RE: American Attacks**Part Twelve: Steady On
From: kendall
Date: 27 Sep 01 - 09:17 PM

Fionne, I dont like the idea of anyonr being armed on a plane.BUT it didn't matter that I dont like it, those terrorists did it anyway. So, I would feel much better if I know there is a TRAINED lawman aboard. The National Guard? I dont know about that. A soldier and a police officer are two different breeds of cat.

Subject: RE: American Attacks**Part Twelve: Steady On
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Sep 01 - 09:51 PM

midchuck , I put the onion article on the maestronet forum. IT was taken down(censored away) in less than an hour. Another case of we did it for the children.

Subject: RE: American Attacks**Part Twelve: Steady On
From: Troll
Date: 27 Sep 01 - 09:56 PM

Amos; good link. Some very good information there.
Kendall, I agree. The use of the National Guard is out for me unless they went through one HELL of a lot of training.
I'd like to see the pilots armed too. The Sept.11th terrorists took over those planes with KNIVES for Gods sake. If only ONE of the pilots on each plane had been armed, it would not have happened.
I heard someone on the radio say that she was against the pilots having guns because it would only give the hijackers access to more weapons. I mean, they've hijacked a bloody plane and she's afraid that IF they could overpower the pilot it would give them more weapons.
I'm sorry, but people like that shouldn't be let out without their keeper. I'll probably take some flak for that last statement, but really,some folks are so afraid of guns that they will surrender their lives before they will admit that someone being armed MIGHT be a good idea.

troll

Subject: RE: American Attacks**Part Twelve: Steady On
From: CarolC
Date: 27 Sep 01 - 10:08 PM

I'm not much of a flyer, myself, but one thing that would greatly reassure me about flying would be for Mary Schiavo to be appointed as the head of the FAA.

Subject: RE: American Attacks**Part Twelve: Steady On
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 27 Sep 01 - 10:15 PM

I say a skit once where ALL the passengers are armed.

"Hi jackers say take me to Cuba" you hear a hundred guns cock them see thme all pointing at the scared hijackers.

It was funny at the time!!

Subject: RE: American Attacks**Part Twelve: Steady On
From: catspaw49
Date: 27 Sep 01 - 10:23 PM

Have you read Schiavo's book Carol? It's a well done piece. She lives here and teaches at Ohio State so the locals have her on a lot.

Spaw

have you read Schiavo's book Caro

Subject: RE: American Attacks**Part Twelve: Steady On
From: CarolC
Date: 27 Sep 01 - 10:30 PM

No, I haven't read her book. But I'm always incredibly impressed with her when I hear her speak. If the book reflects her competence and expertise, I imagine it's probably very instructive.

Subject: RE: American Attacks**Part Twelve: Steady On
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 28 Sep 01 - 07:29 AM

In a pressurised aeroplane, it's crazy having a conventional gun in the hands of anyone. Some kind of crossbow or harpoon gun or high powered air pistol would be a much better idea.

Subject: RE: American Attacks**Part Twelve: Steady On
From: CarolC
Date: 28 Sep 01 - 07:46 AM

The bullets that the Sky Marshalls will be using are a special kind that won't penetrate the hull of an airplane.

Subject: RE: American Attacks**Part Twelve: Steady On
From: Troll
Date: 28 Sep 01 - 07:50 AM

A Taser might work but you have to get real close. Besides, one bullet hole is not going to cause rapid decompression of the plane, "Goldfinger" notwithstanding and if you are probably going to die anyway, why not at least have a chance.
Crossbows, etc., have little or no stopping power unless you hit the heart or brain and kill them instantly. The reason a bullet is so effective is NOT because of what it hits (unless it's the heart or brain) but because of hydroststic shock which affects all the organs of the body.
Give the pilots guns say I.

troll

Subject: RE: American Attacks**Part Twelve: Steady On
From: GUEST,just a nobody
Date: 28 Sep 01 - 08:23 AM

From the reports I have heard about weapons on th plane, they will be the same weapons used to take a prisoner alive, and quel riots. Stun bags, (bean bag with a 12 gauge hit), rubber rings, pepper spray, and rapid fire stunners (from what I have seen High power rubber bullets that shatter on impact).

I want to see the National Guard in the airports. I saw one post where someone mentioned Kent State. I suppose to some people there is a correlation. I can't imagine what that is. But I would much prefer them than a man getting paid 10 dollars an hour, just waiting for shift to end. Or wondering if the Union is really going to try to get him a raise. Remember, right now the airlines have alot of control over the security. That means that as life starts to return to normal and more people fly. They may be more willing to tell security not to be so strict. After all, it is thier money. With military protection I don't think that is very likely.

Subject: RE: American Attacks**Part Twelve: Steady On
From: kendall
Date: 28 Sep 01 - 08:55 AM

As a law enforcement agent for the state of Maine, then for the US Government, I see guns as tools. I would not be in favor of putting a gun in the hands of an untrained pilot. It would be like putting a chain saw in the hands of a 10 year old. There is a lot more to being a gun packing law man than just having a gun, anyone could pass the physical test. It's the emotional test that is the big one. There are those who would start blazing away at the first sign of an arguement, and those who would freeze up and be as useless as a trap door in a canoe.

I say, bring back the Sky Marshals, and install some sturdy doors in the cockpit. El Al does it, and they dont have hijackers. This whole tradegy could have been avoided if there had been one Sky Pig aboard.

Subject: RE: American Attacks**Part Twelve: Steady On
From: GUEST,PeteBoom (at work)
Date: 28 Sep 01 - 09:04 AM

Jack the Sailor - When I was a starving college kidworking my way thru school, the fast food resturant I was working at had an "attempted" armed robbery by a former employee - he'd been fired the day before. So, this genius comes in when the lunch rush crew had been sent home and the till was still fill of cash. Assistant manager and myself were working up front, manager was in back counting money to switch tills. This dimbulb came in with a pistol and pointed it (generally) at the assistant manager. HE says "What, you're gonna rob us with THAT for a gun?" into the microphone, which draws the manager's attention in back, who looks on the screen for the security camera, sees what's going on and goes to the dining room - allerting the "patrons" who take quick and decisive action.

Dimbulb is STILL telling the assitant manager to put the money into a bag NOW or ELSE - and the assistant manager keeps telling him "Man, you don't want to do this." RIGHT until Dimbulb points the gun at the assitant manager's chest.

You should have seen the look on Dimbulb's face when he heard EIGHT hammers go "click" behind him - two city cops, three county cops and three state troopers (we were at a highway off-ramp). Frazzle-a$$ed old sergeant (city cop) pats the rookie with him on the back and says "Great job kid - third day on the job and ya get an armed robber."

BAck to work -

Pete

Subject: RE: American Attacks**Part Twelve: Steady On
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 28 Sep 01 - 09:18 AM

Great story Pete. I wonder if the airlines could use a system whereby they give discounted or free flights to trained certified veterans and cops and ex-cops.

Listening to NPR this morning. They will be putting video cameras in the cabin and strengthing the doors. Mr. Bush has 150,000 applicants for sky marshall. As of now they are "Borrowing" DEA, ATF, INS and other gmen and traing them. They are about to put a traing program in place for external applicants. They've increased the maximum age from 37 to 40 to increase the pool. but that leaves a lot of veteran cops between 40-60 who feel their expierence in handling bad situations would be valuable.

Subject: RE: American Attacks**Part Twelve: Steady On
From: Fiolar
Date: 28 Sep 01 - 09:38 AM

There's been a lot of ideas mooted about preventing hijackers getting control of the aircraft and I wonder if there is really any sure method. Some expert claims that Sky Marshalls would stand out like sore thumbs among the ordinary passengers. If that is the case then 'jackers don't need to bring weapons on board. They will be there already. The Israeli model is probably the best, which has a combination of steel doors to the cockpit as well as armed guards. Another probability is the installation of an over-ride which could be controlled from the ground allowing the controller to land the aircraft. I suppose that in future pilots must be thought to ignore the fact that passengers and colleagues will be killed in order to bring them out of the cockpit. Not a decision to be taken lightly and will need a special breed of person. But then who know what humans are really capable of. Only look at Switzerland today. The last place on God's earth where it would be assumed someone would go berserk with a gun.

Subject: RE: American Attacks**Part Twelve: Steady On
From: Troll
Date: 28 Sep 01 - 09:40 AM

Kendall, I don't believe the idea was to give guns to intrained men. There would, of course, be training before a pilot was permitted to carry a gun and as for the emotional test you referred to, I think that anyone who flies the big jets is someone who wouldn't go off half-cocked in an emergency situation. They MUST be capable of acessing emergencies and reacting quickly and correctly.
Call them the second line of defense if the bad guys get the Sky Marshall(s).

troll

Subject: RE: American Attacks**Part Twelve: Steady On
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 28 Sep 01 - 10:18 AM

It seems fairly clear that the responsibility for safety shouldn't be left to airlines trying to cut costs, for example by paying people so little they don't have difficulty recruiting. Or politicians trying to cut costs to enable tax reductions for that matter. Whoever makes these arrangements needs to be able to do what needs to be done without any regard for cost whatsoever.

But I hope they aren't focusing all their attention on airline safety, because I think it's fairly safe to assume that the next attacks will be from some completely different direction.

The idea of having brainstorming with the kind of people who make up disaster fiction makes a lot of sense. I'd hesitate to suggest that people suggest scenarios here though - imagine how you'd feel if you suggested something on the net, and then it happened. Perhaps there should be some kind of electronic suggestions box where we could post those kind of things. With some kind of guarantee of total anonymity. Otherwise you'd be terrified that the powers that be might come down on you if you hit unlucky.

Subject: RE: American Attacks**Part Twelve: Steady On
From: heric
Date: 28 Sep 01 - 01:24 PM

troll, dig this:

"Ummat quotes bin Laden as saying: 'We are against the American system but not the American people. Islam does not allow killing of innocent people, men, women and children even in the event of war.'"

http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_410936.html?menu=news.latestheadlines

Subject: RE: American Attacks**Part Twelve: Steady On
From: Troll
Date: 28 Sep 01 - 01:40 PM

I saw that. It doesn't agree with what he has said in his other published writings about America and Americans.
I don't know why he would issue a statement that is a direct retraction of everything else that he has said.

troll

Subject: RE: American Attacks**Part Twelve: Steady On
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Sep 01 - 01:49 PM

The fragmentation bullets that are to be used by former military personelle ,trained as sky marshalls, disintegrate in tissue like powdered clay. Even if a person is not hit in the brain as preferred in training exercises there is so much damage that infection is often the killer. If the bullet hits the plane it explodes in a cloud of dust and makes no penetrating hole.

20 years ago I submitted an invention to the FBI in Buffalo NY of a hijack prevention technology with the combination of knock out gas and an automatic pilot landing of the plane. Guess what. They are dusting off this old technology and are in the process of perfecting it.

Subject: RE: American Attacks**Part Twelve: Steady On
From: heric
Date: 28 Sep 01 - 01:51 PM

and this:

"Elite troops from U.S. special operations forces have been inside Afghanistan the past 2 weeks looking for Osama bin Laden, but they're having difficulty locating him and are asking other nations for additional intelligence help, senior U.S. and Pakistani officials have confirmed privately. . . .

'Teams of three to five soldiers, backed by Blackhawk MH-60K helicopters kept at airbases outside Afghanistan, then began deploying into that nation's mountainous regions in an attempt to locate the elusive bin Laden, senior U.S. and Pakistani officials said. They have been concentrating their searches in caves and underground bunkers in southwest Afghanistan near the city of Kandahar, the officials added. Bin Laden has long been known to operate in that region."

http://www.usatoday.com/hlead.htm

Looks like a thick fog has rolled in. Now we're going to be groping for truth in a mist full of changing illusions.