 sj |
||
|
||
The great Irish Song theft conspiracy
|
|
|
Subject: The great Irish Song theft conspirac y From: Declan Date: 26 Jun 02 - 12:37 PM Am I the only one around here who is starting to get a little bored with the fact that almost every song origin thread ends up with a list of songs that "the Irish" (whoever they are) have stolen. For example a German American wrote a song about someone who he chose to name Kathleen (an irish name). This was then sung and recorded by a number of 'Irish Tenors' and lo and behold some people thought it was Irish. Is this a surprize. I suspect the author had an eye to the market in choosing the name. If he'd written "I'll take you home again Grunhilde (sorry about the spelling) it might not have sold so many copies. Also a lot of Irish bands (both Irish and internationally based) have recorded songs that weren't written in Ireland. These may or may not have been properly accredited at the time, but not everybody studies the liner notes on albums, and some people may think they are Irish when they are not. The same is true of 'Irish' song books, not all of which are compiled by Irish people, who wrongly attribute songs as being Irish. There are cases where people have changed the words to Irish place names to make them more meaningful to their audience. Some may have done so to avoid copyright, in which case they are guilty of theft to some degree, but this is surely part of the folk process. Were Woody Guthrie and Bob Dylan thieves ? or did they just adapt songs to suit their circumstances. I'd just ask people out there to think twice before they start generalising about "the" anything. If these threads were written about other ethnic groups they would rightly be the subject of messages condemning racism for what it is. Or is it always only a joke ? Rant over. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The great Irish Song theft conspirac y From: RichM Date: 26 Jun 02 - 12:56 PM No one can 'steal' a song--I suspect this is one time I would agree with #1Peasant! Some songs are like the wind: they don't recognize borders, countries, cultures or languages...They move freely because their musicality is recognized universally. I leave up to the scholars, librarians and historians to record and debate their origins.
I simply sing them, and enjoy them. Rich McCarthy |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The great Irish Song theft conspirac y From: Davetnova Date: 26 Jun 02 - 12:57 PM Well I have one songbook that has two entries for Macpherson's lament. One with eight verses is listed as a Scottish folksong, the other with only five verses is listed as an Irish folksong. So obviously the Irish were disturbed before they could steal the whole song. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The great Irish Song theft conspirac y From: Mrrzy Date: 26 Jun 02 - 12:57 PM Hey, you sing about Kathleen, even if you are German you are writing an Irish song, I agree. I hope so does poor otherwise-misguided Kevin Reilly...! |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The great Irish Song theft conspirac y From: Mr Happy Date: 26 Jun 02 - 12:58 PM some years ago,a friend bought a cassette compilation called'songs of old ireland' among the listings on the sleeve notes was, 'i belong to glasgow'! |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The great Irish Song theft conspirac y From: greg stephens Date: 26 Jun 02 - 01:36 PM You're right Declan, it is boring.Those little Ossian song books that evrybody has are very rightly entitled "Folksongs and ballads popular in Ireland"...and it would be better if people remembered that.It doesnt say "Irish Folksongs".It's bloody lovely when songs move around the world and get adopted and changed andshared, and who coud object to that. But you must also understand that people will also get amused, or niggled, or both if a pattern develops of attributing certain musical itmems or forms to "Irish origin" when they clearly aren't( or if it's a moot point). "Any old Iron"and "Lish young buy-a-broom" have been raised as obvious examples in recent postings. WThey are bound to make hackles rise if you call them "Irish", just as it would be plain ludicrous to go round calling "Spancil Hill" or "The
Flower of Scotland" English folksongs. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The great Irish Song theft conspirac y From: greg stephens Date: 26 Jun 02 - 01:56 PM Come on declan, you can't expect people not to have a little chuckle finding "Any old iron" or the"lish young buy a broom" described as Irish. "Foksongs and Ballads Popular in Ireland" is thevery fair title of the little Ossian books, and that is a wonderful non-controversialway of putting it. The English, Welsh, scottish and Irish have been sharing songs and tunes for untold centuries with enormous mutual pleasure. It is only a few rabid chauvinist cultural historians on all sides who stir things up occasionally by refusing to recognise this mutually beneficial borrowing, and adopt the line of "if it's sung in X it must have originated in X". And those sort of claims, believed by credulous people, do need jumping on, because they can feed feelings of ethnic superiority in inadequate people and we all know only too well where that can lead. My own position is I love English songs and I love Irish songs, and most of the time I havent a bloody clue which are which. But just sometimes I do have a clue, and will take a humorous dig at any Englishman who claims "Spancil Hill" is an old Norfolk folksong. PS Can we have St Patrick back? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The great Irish Song theft conspirac y From: greg stephens Date: 26 Jun 02 - 02:00 PM Sorry thought I'd lost the first letter, so I wrote it again and now it's reappeared. So youve gottwo versions. I think the second one's better, how about you? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The great Irish Song theft conspirac y From: PeteBoom Date: 26 Jun 02 - 02:03 PM Defintely, the second one is better.... |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The great Irish Song theft conspirac y From: Wolfgang Date: 26 Jun 02 - 02:20 PM I disagree, Pete, the second one looks to me like a later Irish theft of minor quality of the strongly worded true English original. Wolfgang |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The great Irish Song theft conspirac y From: GUEST Date: 26 Jun 02 - 02:45 PM I can't find the words thief/thieves/theft, or stole/stolen anywhere in the "Kathleen" thread. Do you have an example of a "song origin" thread which "ends up with" a "list" of songs "The Irish" "stole" ? That is, it must be a thread about the origins of a song, there must be a list of songs (i.e. more than one) near the end of the thread, and in the same post with the list there must occur the words "The Irish stole" or similar words, with the object of "stole" being the songs on the list. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The great Irish Song theft conspirac y From: greg stephens Date: 26 Jun 02 - 02:56 PM well its been a friendly chat so far lets keep it that way, huh? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The great Irish Song theft conspirac y From: MMario Date: 26 Jun 02 - 03:08 PM Guest does have a point in that as far as I can tell - recently - the trend has been in the other direction - with people complaining that songs are marked or considered "irish" and they are NOT. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The great Irish Song theft conspirac y From: PeteBoom Date: 26 Jun 02 - 03:41 PM "people complaining that songs are marked or considered "irish" and they are NOT. " Actually... it strikes me that Guest, 26-Jun-02 - 02:45 PM above, is slicing and dicing Declan's metaphores. I *believe* that the gist of Declan's original post (that songs like "I'll Take You Home Again Kathleen" and "Dirty Old Town" are considered "Irish" by many people) is not something to blame the Irish themselves for. The fact that The Pogues did a cover of Dirty Old Town does not make it Irish. Right? Blaming "the Irish" because of other people's assumptions (mainly Americans it seems) is silly. It seems that Declan's main thrust is that there are folks too lazy to verify sources before posting in DT (and elsewhere) or so unscrupulous to publish a book of "Irish" songs that aren't. The stuff I write is "American" although it may be written in a style similar to Irish folk or Scottish folk. If my cousin in Dublin sings it, or a friend in Ayreshire sings it, it is still American, not Irish or Scottish, but some folks may never figure that out. Now let us quit violently agreeing... ;-) Pete |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The great Irish Song theft conspirac y From: gnu Date: 26 Jun 02 - 03:44 PM Perhaps the Irish are just better at performing these tunes ? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The great Irish Song theft conspirac y From: GUEST,Ewan McVicar Date: 26 Jun 02 - 03:58 PM My favourite reallocation as an Irish song is Sonny's Dream. A Nova Scotian composition, recorded in Dublin by Scot Hamish Imlach with Mary Black among the backing singers, then recorded by Mary Black herself, and at last performed on the Bringing It All Home TV series as a genuine Irish-American folksong. How irritating / embarrassing for all concerned. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The great Irish Song theft conspirac y From: little john cameron Date: 26 Jun 02 - 05:31 PM See there is a perfect example.Sonny's Drean was written by Ron Hynes from NEWFOUNDLAND.Ah'm surprised at ye Ewan.ljc |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The great Irish Song theft conspirac y From: Lanfranc Date: 26 Jun 02 - 07:17 PM Let it never be forgotten that "Sing Out" once described "On Ilkley Moor Baht 'At" as a Welsh folksong. Errare humanum est. Alan |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The great Irish Song theft conspirac y From: Den Date: 26 Jun 02 - 09:24 PM So the Irish are music thieves now...uhm! I thought they were all just terrorists and itinerants. Or is that just the crowd from the north...hard to know. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The great Irish Song theft conspirac y From: GUEST Date: 26 Jun 02 - 09:28 PM It's NOT????? I thought it was ............... (insert nationality to taste in order to start another argument) |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The great Irish Song theft conspirac y From: GUEST Date: 26 Jun 02 - 09:30 PM Last post referring to Lanfranc's post, but beaten to the Submit button by Den...... |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The great Irish Song theft conspirac y From: Midchuck Date: 26 Jun 02 - 09:41 PM One of the "Folksongs popular in Ireland" pamphlets that we have has Bill Staines' "A Place in the Choir," without any attribution whatever. I think Planxty liberated Norman Blake's "Billy Grey," more or less in cold blood, retitling it "True Love Knows no Season." I don't know if they paid any royalties, but I doubt it, since he grumbled about it in introducing the song at a concert once. Peter. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The great Irish Song theft conspirac y From: katlaughing Date: 26 Jun 02 - 09:52 PM If you have corrections for any song origin threads, it would helpful if you'd post them in the appropriate threads, with whatever references you have. We'd like the Song Origins Permathread, with its links to those threads, to be as accurate as possible. Thanks, kat |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The great Irish Song theft conspirac y From: GUEST,guitarfixer Date: 27 Jun 02 - 02:01 AM Irish groups tend to latch on to all kinds (usually good) songs or tunes. Of course, by they time they are passed around and recorded by 6 or 8 Irish groups, they are thought of as "Irish" songs. Tommy Makem and Liam Clancy had a pretty good hit with Bill Staines' "A Place in the Choir". Several groups "stole" it from them and I don't imagine many of them heard Staines' own recordings of it. On the other hand, many recordings have been made of Tommy Makem's "Four Green Fields" and seldom have I seen it credited. It is hard to keep track sometimes. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The great Irish Song theft conspirac y From: Declan Date: 27 Jun 02 - 05:48 AM Ok guest. The Kathleen thread didn't actually say steal - it said "claimed as trad. Irish" but I think this is not quite accurate. I'd say in most cases these songs have been attributed as trad Irish - in many cases by those who either knew no better, or were too lazy to go and check it out. Maybe I was getting a bit paranoid, but I've read a lot of these threads and the same stuff gets repeated again and again. Maybe I should have named this thread "Songs wrongly thought to be Irish" and everybody could have posted their favourites there. Then people could just add a link to that thread every time they felt inclined to rant on the subject rather than clog up the origin threads. I'm all for accuracy. There are people out there who seem to feel qualified to publish song books who don't feel the need to research the material in any sort of a thorough way. But obviously there's a market there for this stuff, so they might feel there isn't any need for accuracy. At the end of the day (as Roy Keane might put it) I think Rich M has the right attitude. I sing and play songs from many parts of the world, and if anybody can be bothered to listen to me, and they want to know, I'll tell them as much as I know about the provenance of the song. In the unlikely event that anyone was willing to record and publish any of that material I'd do my best to produce accurately researched sleeve notes, but there's no guarantee that people would read them. By the way, as far as I'm concerned you (The English and/or The Scots) can have Danny Boy back now. We're finished with it ! |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The great Irish Song theft conspirac y From: greg stephens Date: 27 Jun 02 - 06:00 AM Come on Dekkers old chap. We're not allowed to say "the English" or "the Scots", for fear of being racist (your ruling, in your original post). I refuse to allow any of my English or Scottish blood to make me feel any collective responsibility for "Danny Boy", whoever wrote it. I hate it, because I can never make the high note. Do you think this Orac bloke is right, that it was written about Scotland? Seems unlikely to me. I know it's got pipes and glens in it, but I thought this was a general "celtic twilight" overwash on a portrait of Ireland. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The great Irish Song theft conspirac y From: Hrothgar Date: 27 Jun 02 - 06:05 AM Let's pick a fight - aren't the Welsh reputed to be thieves? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The great Irish Song theft conspirac y From: GUEST,JTT Date: 27 Jun 02 - 06:09 AM In Tin Pan Alley, so I've heard, a lot of the Jewish songwriters wrote for their audience, so a song about an Irish mammy might have more buyers than one about a Yiddischer mama, at one particular time.
But then I thought the Partisan song was about Mao |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The great Irish Song theft conspirac y From: Declan Date: 27 Jun 02 - 06:19 AM greg, Danny Boy can't be about Ireland 'cause it mentions the summer and we don't get them in Ireland (at least not this year so far). The "the"s (wasn't that the name of a band?) were deliberate, for effect. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The great Irish Song theft conspirac y From: greg stephens Date: 27 Jun 02 - 06:21 AM The Welsh were certainly always supposed to steal sheep. But it's what they do with thm afterwards that causes the fuss. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The great Irish Song theft conspirac y From: Orac Date: 27 Jun 02 - 01:13 PM Yippee.. I got a mention. Nice to see someone else has taken up my theme about the Irish claiming ownership of pretty well anything. Most of the books I have do not say "songs popular in Ireland" at all they most definitely say "Irish Folk songs" and include "The Rose of Allandale" (written by Charles Jeffrys) and always spelled wrongly as Allendale. Fiddlers Green, The Shoals of Herring, When you were sweet sixteen..... I can go on for ever how many do you want?. Frederick Whetherley who wrote Danny Boy in 1911 was quite clearly thinking of Scotland when he wrote it. The song never became "Irish" until it was hi-jacked by Irish Americans like Bing Crosby in the 1920's and after. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The great Irish Song theft conspirac y From: greg stephens Date: 27 Jun 02 - 01:28 PM Well, I dont know about your collections, Orac, but I reckon the Ossian books outsell everything else ten to one, judging by the fact you find them in every shop, and everyone I know seems to have a few of them. And they are definitely labelled "Folksongs and Ballads popular in Ireland" (admittedly with the "popular in " in rather smaller print). Every one of the songs you quote are in the ossian books,incidentally. And you'll have to better than just say "quite clearly" to convince me Danny Boy was written about Scotland. That's just an assertion: what's your evidence, or reasoning? Maybe it was, I'm just curious to know. But in general I will say I define folksongs in terms of usage, not origin, once they have bedded in and become part of the landscape. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The great Irish Song theft conspirac y From: GUEST,SeanN Date: 27 Jun 02 - 11:13 PM For Danny Boy saga, see here: http://www.standingstones.com/danny3.html Mr. Happy, I don't know anything about the origins of "I belong to Glasgow" but I do know there is a very large Irish immigrant population in Glasgow, so that likely explains common attributions to that community. Many Donegal natives go back and forth between Ireland and Scotland, for instance. It isn't at all uncommon to read an obit in Gweedore for some local who had lived in Glasgow most their life. Sometimes they are even brought back to Donegal for burial. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The great Irish Song theft conspiracy From: katlaughing Date: 28 Jun 02 - 12:20 AM Personally, I think Stravinsky was really Irish... |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The great Irish Song theft conspiracy From: GUEST,ozmacca Date: 28 Jun 02 - 12:58 AM Of course the Irish are claiming songs that aren't irish, and this is only one aspect of a saddening world-wide campaign to deprive the creators of every worthy thing which is decent and honest from their rightful recognition. I base this on the proven principle that everything worth having in this world was, of course, written, composed, invented or at the very least perfected by a scot. As we all know, Wallace the MacBruce not only single-handedly caused the downfall of the roman empire, married Cleopatra, composed the Beethoven symphonies, kicked out the english from the American colonies, filmed Gone With The Wind, invented the steam engine, postage stamp and sewing machine, flew a balloon to the moon and was lead singer for the Beatles before they went to Germany (teaching Paul McCartney everything he knew), all the while developing the first waterproof road-going bicycle pump. Oh yes kat, AND he also wrote Stravinsky - mind you, anybody could have done that... I just did, and so did you. Half the fun of the folk process is waiting for people to say "Wait on, wasn't that originally a 15th century Patagonian shepherd's madrigal arranged for noseflute and two pieces of string by an obscure monk posing as Henry VIII in a kilt while standing on one leg in front of the wardrobe?" While the provenance of the music is important, it ain't THAT important, as long as we like singing it and hearing it... and as long as the audiences enjoy it. Introduce a piece properly, and if they think it's irish, and it's not, let them worry about it. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The great Irish Song theft conspiracy From: greg stephens Date: 28 Jun 02 - 03:57 AM Totally agree about provenance, Ozmacca, it's interesting but not important in itself. It only becomes significant if chauvinists start using it for racist purposes. Folk music's like football....worth playing, not worth beating up rival supporters for. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The great Irish Song theft conspiracy From: GUEST,Frank McGuiness Date: 28 Jun 02 - 08:03 AM There is definitely begrudgery towards most things Irish from the English on the folk scene. That is not imagined at all, and has it's roots in the Troubles. Nationalism isn't racism though, so people should stop calling the bigoted anti-Irish attitudes of the English racism. It is a very particular sort of English nationalist bigotry, commonly directed towards the Irish, and commonly condoned by those who have assimilated into the Anglo Irish and Anglo American dominant cultures. As long as folk music and the "folk process" is believed by the English in particular to be their most sacred "national" music, we will continue to see this ugly, virulent nationalist bigotry continue. Because so many Brits in particular believe that any English language folk song which can be found within their political borders must have originated in England or Scotland--but absolutely not in Ireland, we will likely continue to see this ignorant and spiteful sort of thing on the British folk scene continue. Many Brits who believe themselves above all that will still engage in this particular form of Irish bashing that Declan mentioned in his original thread. They will continue to do it because their bigotry has it's roots in the belief and value systems of 19th century romantic nationalism--and they believe that to be A Good Thing. Many conservative English folk (and the English folk scene is made up of a lot of conservatives, just as the Anglo American folk scene is) consider the anti-Irish begrudgery something of a sport. They don't care how tiresome it all gets for Irish people, who are expected to have the skin of an armadillo in regard to anti-Irish English and British nationalist "setting people straight" about all things Irish. It is all about provocation. The button pushing is engaged in by the Brits (particularly English Brits) just to see how far they can push us before they get a reaction. Sort of like time spent with a dysfunctional family, which the English most certainly are. No different than the ways that whites used to be able to get away with baiting blacks in the US. Blacks were hyper-aware when it was happening, and so were raised by their elders to learn to take any humiliation and harrassment, because if they reacted they risked their lives and possibly the lives of other blacks, by responding to it. So it was done by whites with impunity for centuries. It is the same behavior between the English and the Irish. It has it's roots in colonialism and romantic nationalism. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The great Irish Song theft conspiracy From: Declan Date: 28 Jun 02 - 08:42 AM Frank, You may very well have some good points to make there, but to my mind making generalised comments about "the English" and "the Brits" is also arrogant and bigoted. That is the kind of behaviour I was giving out about in my original post, whether it is perpetrated by a British person towards "the Irish" or an Irish person towards "the Brits". We are all individuals ("I'm not") and while there may be certain national traits or ways of behaving it does nobody any good if a whole nation (or race or whatever you want to call it) gets tarred with the same brush becuse of the actions or a percieved attitude of a few people. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The great Irish Song theft conspiracy From: greg stephens Date: 28 Jun 02 - 09:48 AM Dont rise to the "Frank McGuiness" bait, a first posting to Mudcat under that name, but a poster well known to all under various names and none. Be fascinating if the powers-that-be were to give us a list of messages coming from that computer. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The great Irish Song theft conspiracy From: GUEST,Dolly West Date: 28 Jun 02 - 09:50 AM Declan me lad, it is nigh on impossible to discuss nationalist bigotry or racism meaningfully without mentioning the names of the groups involved. There is an English/British nationalist form of bigotry which is directed towards the Irish. If you don't want to admit that exists, fine. But to suggest we all just get along here merely sweeps those realities under the rug. I can appreciate people's attempts to defuse ugly bigoted flame wars between the majority English/British posters here in Mudcat and the Irish/Irish American posters. But you can't have it both ways. Either a problem exists in relation to the Irish and Irish music, or it doesn't. If you don't think it is an issue, why did you bring it up to begin with? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The great Irish Song theft conspiracy From: greg stephens Date: 28 Jun 02 - 10:49 AM Another first-time poster. Welcome to Mudcat, Dolly, this topic is attracting a lot of attention. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The great Irish Song theft conspiracy From: Declan Date: 28 Jun 02 - 10:59 AM Dolly, Things must've got odious quiet over at thon Dumcree campsite, if you're over here joining in this discussion. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The great Irish Song theft conspiracy From: GUEST,Dolly West Date: 28 Jun 02 - 11:01 AM We Irish have a quizzical sort of saying that roughly translates to "If drowning is your intention, why bother wading in shallow water?" |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The great Irish Song theft conspiracy From: GUEST Date: 28 Jun 02 - 11:28 AM I'm having some difficulty understanding what difference it makes if there is one or one thousand posts under any given name here, greg. I'm not sure what mysterious, cryptic meaning you have assigned to those who post as guests for the first time under a particular name? I note you yourself only managed to post 32 times on 27 June. Nothing very fascinating about those posts, to be sure, regardless of the fact that we can be fairly certain they are all coming from the same computer under the same name. Ad nauseum. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The great Irish Song theft conspiracy From: Gloredhel Date: 28 Jun 02 - 12:58 PM So, what do you call a song that consists of lyrics by an Irish poet set to music by an American? Is it Irish? Is it American? Irish-American, American-Irish, just a good song, or nobody cares? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The great Irish Song theft conspiracy From: GUEST,dermod in salisbury Date: 28 Jun 02 - 01:47 PM All songs written in English are English folksongs. English,however, is a language that belongs to anyone who cares to speak it. Many do and it is greatly enriched on that account. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The great Irish Song theft conspiracy From: GUEST,Philippa Date: 28 Jun 02 - 03:24 PM Usually it's not the Irish singers who popularise songs that originated outside of Ireland are not the people who wrongly describing songs as Irish. Unfortunately people who learn the songs from the Irish sources assume that they are Irish and describe the songs as such. Often they are half right as the songs have been created or developed by Irish emigrants and brought back home after a generation or more. As many of you have already said, you can't always pin a song down to one country or another. Sometimes Irish singers and songwriters have deliberately turned songs from elsewhere into Irish songs. Si Kahn's "Aragon Mill" got turned into "Belfast Mill". OK, often in the folk tradition people change placenames to fit a song to their own locality. And the author of this song may even be pleased at evidence of its universality. But it doesn't seem right that a known living author isn't acknowledged; lots of people think this song is Irish because of a one-word alteration. Curiously, several of the songs of the fight for Irish independence from Britain were closely modelled on English songs. Examples include "All around my hat I wear a tri-coloured ribbon" and "I am a merry ploughboy and I plough the fields all day ... I'm off to join the IRA" ozmacca - give Dan O'Connell credit for the steam engine (or at least for a novel use of it - see the song) |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The great Irish Song theft conspiracy From: Jimmy C Date: 02 Jul 02 - 11:25 AM I meant to respond to this thread a few days ago but my computer went belly up. It is now fixed. I believe that the main reason people assume some songs are Irish is because the Irish may be the only ones taking the trouble to sing them. It's the old adage " USE IT OR LOSE IT",. I guarantee that if one was to poll 100 people on any street in Dublin, Belfast, Derry, Galway or anywhere in Ireland , at least 95% of those polled could sing up to 10 to 20 folk songs apiece as well as name 10 or more folk groups and/or singers. The same would not be true in London, Manchester or most cities in England. Scotland would fare a little better with the Corries known to most of them. Welsh folk songs would be more popular outside of Wales if someone would take the trouble of translating them and recording them. Music and singing is more than a hobby in Ireland, it is part of the fibre of the Irish people. We sing and play songs from all over the world, and if no one else is doing this to the same extent, then it stands to reason that the uninformed will assume that the song is Irish. Please make every effort to correct this and please take Danny Boy back, along with Kathleen. It would be a great help if more English radio stations played the folk songs from the vast treasury of english folk songs available. Unfortunately this is not the case. One or two weekly radio slots dedicated to folk music is not enough to get the nmessage across to the general public that they have a great folk song tradition that has died out in many of the large populated regions, all being replaced by Rock, etc. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The great Irish Song theft conspiracy From: DMcG Date: 02 Jul 02 - 12:03 PM There is a difference between the way scholars and researchers think of music and the way sellers/purchasers think of it. One is interested in the 'real' origin, no matter how unlikely or obscure, the other simply ease of access. This can give rise to some odd classifications. To find English Traditional Folk on "Emusic" for example, you look under "World/Reggae" and then the subsection "Celtic/British Isles" I can just picture Bob Copper in dreadlocks! |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The great Irish Song theft conspiracy From: beachcomber Date: 02 Jul 02 - 04:40 PM Aw c'mon fellas. Irish singers and groups had a very international popularity from the 60's up to , maybe the early 90's. Don't you expect publishers , producers et al. to attempt to cash in by pushing out everything that was Irish or could even be proposed as Irish to an eagerly receptive public? It will all return to normal, anyday now ok?? beach |
| Share Thread: |