BS: Obit: Christmas

Subject: Obit: Christmas
From: sed
Date: 21 Dec 02 - 03:54 PM

Jingle Bells; Jingle Bells;
Jingle all the way....
Christ's Mass vs. Santa Claus:
If you could only have one, which would it be?

All the hoopla over what?

Jesus died for me.
Who is Santa?

Saturnalia.....
Winter Solstice....
the trauma to the human with every significant seasonal change.....
personal salvation by the grace of Jesus Christ.......

what's all this stuff going on about us like buzzards on a bank?

Sincerely,
Steve Sedberry

Subject: RE: Obit: Christmas
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 21 Dec 02 - 04:05 PM

Christ was NOT born on Dec 25th, so I'm gonna side with Santa...

Subject: RE: Obit: Christmas
From: Cluin
Date: 21 Dec 02 - 04:05 PM

I thought it was about the birth of Jesus. They got Easter for the death..

Cheer up, pal. It's supposed to be a happy time. And it belongs to everyone, especially the kids (and others) who believe in Santa. Whatever the "reason for the season" (Christ's birthday, Winter's Turning, Feast of Oomsloppogas) it's a long long tradition, still going on and thriving today. Don't let the commercialism get to you, just have a Merry Christmas.

Subject: RE: Obit: Christmas
From: Allan C.
Date: 21 Dec 02 - 04:18 PM

Happy Solstice to you, Steve! Other ideas about the world, about the powers that created it and keep it will always abound, my friend. I see nothing at all wrong with a winter celebration or any expression of joyfulness at any time of year, for that matter. Clearly it matters to you what the reason for the celebration is; but try not to get in the way of other people's happiness while you ponder the meaning of it all. Remember, though, as you ponder, that you must include the possibility that while your point of view might not be incorrect; the views of others might also be correct. This world is big enough for all of us. Have a happy holiday season.

Subject: RE: Obit: Christmas
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 21 Dec 02 - 04:20 PM

Must have been how the pagans felt when they saw all their traditions, symbols, and celebrations taken over by the church.

Diversity. Christmas is a folk holiday with a beautiful message. Celebrate the spirit of the holiday.

Ron

Subject: RE: Obit: Christmas
From: Allan C.
Date: 21 Dec 02 - 04:29 PM

Well said, Ron! Speaking of diversity, here are some other ways folks celebrate the season.

Subject: RE: Obit: Christmas
From: sed
Date: 21 Dec 02 - 04:38 PM

Good point:
"try not to get in the way of other people's happiness while you ponder the meaning of it all."

Yet, it swings both ways, now, doesn't it?

How can the truth contradict itself?

Subject: RE: Obit: Christmas
From: *daylia*
Date: 21 Dec 02 - 04:53 PM

How can the truth contradict itself? Because nothing can exist here without it's opposite. If there were no dark, we could not recognize light. If there were no hate, we would not know love either. Nature's law, I guess.

daylia

Subject: RE: Obit: Christmas
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Dec 02 - 05:08 PM

Steve, if the Christian religious aspect of the holiday is lacking in your life, I think the thing to do is find some people who share your feelings and beliefs about it. This holiday isn't really just about Jesus, it is also a time of year when many cultures separate different sorts of folk customs (as someone has pointed out). The Santa thing isn't even all that universal, although the Anglo American commercialized version of it is likely what is putting you off. It is entirely possible to ignore it if you don't buy into the gift binge thing, or watch too much television.

For me, Christmas is a tree, feasting with family & friends on whatever we want (our only food traditions these days are to eat whatever we feel like), go to movies/watch DVDs, and try and tolerate the hordes of teenagers as best we can! That's it! Low stress, high enjoyment, not all that much money. Some years we go to mass, some years we don't.

So, cheer up! It ain't all that bad. The US is becoming less and less Santa and Christ centric both, and I don't consider that to be a bad thing. If you want to celebrate Christ's birth, go for it. Ain't nobody standing in your way. Don't want to celebrate the commercial/Santa aspect of Christmas? Then don't do it! Want to just be thankful for making it through another year, hang with people you love, start dreaming of possibilities for the new year, go for it!

But lower that stress and bah humbugness there, or you will only make YOURSELF miserable (and possibly, as someone else has pointed out, the people around you too! Not a good thing!)

Happy Holidays (whatever that means to you)

Subject: RE: Obit: Christmas
From: *daylia*
Date: 21 Dec 02 - 05:10 PM

Subject: RE: Obit: Christmas
From: Amos
Date: 21 Dec 02 - 05:19 PM

There are other icons about which you can get wrapped just as easily, Sed; what you are wrestling is not truth, but a convenient mythology for making certain lessons more portable. Getting wrapped around the bottomless significance of the symbol is kind of like arguing with the thermometer because you don't like the weather, to stretch a point.

The kingdom of heaven is not in the calendar, accordng to the same Testament you're worried about.   Stick witht he substance, and the symptoms and symbols will take care of themselves.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Christmas
From: mack/misophist
Date: 22 Dec 02 - 09:27 AM

Internal evidence in the Bible indicates that JC must have been born in April or May. Our Pilgrim Fathers put people in jail for celebrating Yule. Looks to me like Santa's ahead.

Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Christmas
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 22 Dec 02 - 09:55 AM

And just rememeber that Santa is an anagram of Satan! Repent now all ye sinners or be smitten with yards of wrapping paper, string and the latest electronic games from Japan. Remember that God sent us his holy son in this season to teach us love, peace and how to kill the pagans, heathens, wogs and those who do not agree. God taught us that this is a time of plenty where we can eat drink and be merry with concience clear because the starving peoples of the world have brought it upon themselves with their blasphemous ways. Remember that these heathens wear no clothes, have no houses and eat naught but dirt and insects. This cannot be natural and so cannot exist in your world.

Rid us, oh holy Lord, of those who do not think like us. Particulary those from the heathen lands to the west of the Atlantic. Especialy those who belive not the holy scriptures and reside in the frozen wastes of the northern part of that pagan land. Those who preach that your Christ-Son was not born on the named holy day, was not white, did not have blue eyes and did not speak English. Mangle and masacre those who do not believe in love and peace.

And finaly, oh great God of all that is good and holy, bring me redemption from those who ponder too deeply on the obvious meanings of your holy words. Oh - and a bottle of 17 year old Glen Morangie would be very nice...

Seasons Greetings

Dave the Cleric

Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Christmas
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 22 Dec 02 - 10:01 AM

Christmas, for those of us who believe that Christ is the son of God, is celebrated in the heart, Steve. It can comfortably be celebrated by giving gifts, drinking glog, enjoying the fellowship of friends and family (whatever their belief) and praising the Lord. The only thing that stops people from celebrating the birth of Christ is themselves. There's also nothing wrong in celebrating the shortest day of the year (Yahoo!!!!) If God is love, than the best way to worship him is to rejoice at this time of year and share our love with all. The word Christmas is very simply broken down into Christ and celebrate. Here's to celebrating with all of our friends. Giving gifts, if it's done in love, is a wonderful way to celebrate.

I can hardly wait for Christmas. As a matter of fact, my wife and I have been celebrating it with our fmaily and friends for the last week.

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Christmas
From: reggie miles
Date: 22 Dec 02 - 10:54 AM

Obit: Christmas???

It won't happen my friend. There's too much at stake. Christmas is and has been, for some time now, the stuff of legend, those things that have endured and will continue to do so.

We, however, will not.

Though, there have been some very impressive breakthroughs of late that seem to indicate the possibility of longer lifespans for those who can afford the cure, but I doubt it will ever be within the reach of the average planetary inhabitant.

The eternal struggle of the haves and the don't gots. That's what this season is all about. That's what life on the planet is all about. The great balancing act, of giving to those in need, is always upon us. You can see it everywhere, even here, right now.

So, cheer up brother! Get beyond the conflict within. Find someone else on the planet who has less than you, less friends, less money, less time, less energy, whatever, and do your part to rebalance things. Even if it's only a perceived by you or others as a very small part. Every little movement toward harmony is a positive and healthy endeavor. The changes you create via this sort of activity reshape the future of life on the planet. It's everyone's task to do the same.

Peace and health to you.

Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Christmas
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 22 Dec 02 - 02:03 PM

Good message, reggie!

Have a joyful Christmas..

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Christmas
From: Big Mick
Date: 22 Dec 02 - 02:23 PM

I make a distinction between the holiday and the holy day. The holiday is a reflection of our society. Much of it is wrong, misguided, full of inappropriate messages to our young, and at times causes great sadness and misery. I despair for those that are so taken with the commercial aspects that they cannot see the holy day. But the coin has another side. It is also a season of folks tying to solve problems, a season of folks who work very hard to help others.

The Holy Day and season, for me, is a wholly different time. It is a time for contemplative reflection. A time when I look to the messages of the man I vainly try to emulate. A time when I find time to sit on my hill and listen to the voices of the old ones that I hear in my head, and try to find a way, as we head into the season of light, to move a little closer to being a better man, a better Father, a better friend, and a better person.

Sed, I don't know what tradition you follow at this time of the year. And to me, it doesn't matter. But I find a little more peace when I can shut out the noise, listen to those who have gotten away, and reflect on the life of the greatest who ever lived.

All the best,

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Christmas
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 22 Dec 02 - 02:34 PM

Amen, Mick.... Have a joyful Christmas...

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Christmas
From: *daylia*
Date: 22 Dec 02 - 02:34 PM

Reggie - thanks for that! It really is all about giving and recieving with joy... and healthy balance ... in this and every season. Knowing that whatever we give returns to us many times over!!

Happy trails

daylia

Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Christmas
From: Amos
Date: 23 Dec 02 - 10:03 AM

Merry Christmas to all, you madcap merry Mudcatters!!
Geeze, what a fine crew you are!



A

Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Christmas
From: *daylia*
Date: 23 Dec 02 - 12:31 PM

One more thought about the 'reason for the season' - the ancient peoples of Northern Europe had a very practical NEED to celebrate the Winter Solstice with gifting and feasting. It was an opportunity for those who had enjoyed a successful harvest/hunt to share the bounty with those less fortunate. That way, everyone had a chance to make it through the darkest, coldest season of the year without starving, and the 'survival of the species' (and of the communities) was ensured.

In spite of all the commercialism surrounding Christmas today, the song DOES remain the same. It all depends on where the focus is, on HOW each of us chooses to celebrate - if we choose to do so at all!

Peace and love,

daylia

Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Christmas
From: Mr Happy
Date: 23 Dec 02 - 12:42 PM

goodwill to all men? don't think so- UK & USA govts presently planning wholesale slaughter of non-christian? iraquis!

Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Christmas
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Dec 02 - 12:48 PM

Season of good will slaughter.

Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Christmas
From: *daylia*
Date: 23 Dec 02 - 12:56 PM

And short of everyone in the military 'seeing the light' and refusing to obey orders to do so (not too likely!) what the h*** can any of us do about it except pray? And let our dissent be heard loud and clear?

daylia

Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Christmas
From: YOR
Date: 23 Dec 02 - 01:02 PM

OK, So why is Santa's beard white? Does he powder it like Goerge Washington? Shouldn't it be grey. Santa the Grey not Santa the White.

Roy

Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Christmas
From: *daylia*
Date: 23 Dec 02 - 01:07 PM

Hey, maybe he's related to 'Gandolf the Gray'? Ho ho ho

Could use a few peaceful 'spells' around here ...

daylia

Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Christmas
From: YOR
Date: 23 Dec 02 - 01:26 PM

Me brain done gone on holiday! :)