BS: Bill Clinton vs. Bob Dole. Puhleeze!

Subject: BS: Bill Clinton vs. Bob Dole. Puhleeze!
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 09 Mar 03 - 11:21 PM

Fer Heaven's sake I was SO lookin' forward to this (no...I don't know why) and it was totally pathetic!

One of the things that made Bob Dole the weakest Presidential candidate since Mike Dukakis, was his complete inability to speak coherently into a microphone. Yes they BOTH used prepared (and totally uninspiring texts) but Dole simply can't use a teleprompter. He follows each word from it (you can see his eyes quiver) rather than grasping a couple of sentences at a time, and then SWEEPING the eyes past it.......in a SEEMINGLY casual motion.

Clinton is much better (although not as perfect as they both should be by now) but still looks like insincerity is the ONLY emotion that really comes easily to him. Yes he's friendly, his make-up was ok, and you CAN see a bit of that charisma that worked wonders on stupid girls who wanted to fuck powerful guys.....but the "aww shucks" thing got on my nerves fast.

Mr Dole (who I respect for his toughness if not his policies) looked ghastly. Too much cosmetic surgery, corpse-like make-up, and a hesitant delivery ain't going to cut it.

If they want someone who can keep up with Clinton, style-wise with a few dynamics, why don't they bring over Tucker Carlson. No....his content is just as weak as Dole's (and Clinton's) but he's got a little verve........and this IS TELEVISION after all. It has absolutely ZIP to do with either liberalism or conservatism.

P.S.

Thanks for separating the music from the rest Joe (and for the rest of your hard work). I've suggested that so many times on Mudcat that I KNEW it had to be a good idea ha ha! It's fun to get back involed with politics without feelin' guilty!!

Cheers

Rick

Subject: RE: BS: Bill Clinton vs. Bob Dole. Puhleeze!
From: Ebbie
Date: 09 Mar 03 - 11:39 PM

Did you see last night's Saturday Night Live? Dan Ackroyd reprised his old role with Jane Curtin- he played Bob Dole on the skit and the other guy did Clinton. It was quite funny really. Clinton/other guy did the no-criticizing-Bush- bit but was insincerely humble and self congratulatory, very pleased with himself; Ackroyd/Bob Dole started with 'Bill, you ignorant slut...'

I didn't get to hear the Clinton-Dole thing tonight. Turns out that the three broadcast stations I get don't carry 60 Minutes.

Subject: RE: BS: Bill Clinton vs. Bob Dole. Puhleeze!
From: katlaughing
Date: 09 Mar 03 - 11:53 PM

Ebbie, we saw it. Absolutely hysterical! (Oops, that hyster is following me from thread to thread now!)

Rick, I missed them tonight, but I can only imagine how pathetic Dole must've been The way your describe him sounds just like he was when running for prez. CLinton, well, it's not just young girls who he is attractive tp...of course I am thinking of his mind/intellect and wouldn't fuck him.:-) I would have him eating out of my hand for lack of it, though!**bg**

kat

Subject: RE: BS: Bill Clinton vs. Bob Dole. Puhleeze!
From: Ebbie
Date: 10 Mar 03 - 12:22 AM

"I would have him eating out of my hand for lack of it, though!**bg**"

An unfortunate turn of phrase? :)

Subject: RE: BS: Bill Clinton vs. Bob Dole. Puhleeze!
From: katlaughing
Date: 10 Mar 03 - 12:34 AM

??Sorry? In what way do you mean, Ebbie?

Subject: RE: BS: Bill Clinton vs. Bob Dole. Puhleeze!
From: Ebbie
Date: 10 Mar 03 - 01:00 AM

Sorry, just being facetious, kat. Brought a picture to my mind...

Subject: RE: BS: Bill Clinton vs. Bob Dole. Puhleeze!
From: Peg
Date: 10 Mar 03 - 01:25 AM

Wish I had caught this; I was hoping it would be worth the time. Sad to hear it's all pre-scripted...

I did watch SNL but not the very beginning; I wondered why they thanked Dan Ackroyd at the end...

Subject: RE: BS: Bill Clinton vs. Bob Dole. Puhleeze!
From: katlaughing
Date: 10 Mar 03 - 03:04 AM

Ebbie, it's okay. I just didn't get it, then when I thought of it, later, I thought, well...maybe I should have specified that I meant for lack of the "fuck" not the "mind/intellect!" **BG**

FWIW, in what I heard on NPR and elsewhere, I am not surprised it was pre-scripted. I think all of the old Point-Counterpoints were, too, weren't they? Just a couple of quickie op/eds of opposing sides?

kat

Subject: RE: BS: Bill Clinton vs. Bob Dole. Puhleeze!
From: JudyR
Date: 10 Mar 03 - 03:45 AM

It was fun, though. Am I in the minority? Just hearing Clinton's nuanced reasoning, instead of Bush's third-rate, third-grade stuttering, was like a relief (sigh). And I do want to hear how Clinton would act on things these days (sigh). Dole doddered through, it is true, poor guy. Somehow I had the feeling he would sound more reasonable than he did, because practically any moderate Republican does, compared to this administration.

That said, I was soooo disappointed that it was a two-minute Point-Counterpoint thing. I don't know what I was thinking it would be. Longer than that, for sure. Oh, and Dan Ackroyd was outrageous!!! More entertaining than any of it, as you are all saying!!

Subject: RE: BS: Bill Clinton vs. Bob Dole. Puhleeze!
From: catspaw49
Date: 10 Mar 03 - 07:07 AM

Ever since this came up on the other thread, I've wanted to say something, but...............

I don't want to defend Bob Dole here as far as his politics go, but have you ever caught in on Larry King or some other off the cuff thing where he can relax a bit and just banter back and forth? The man is not an idiot and can be very funny, very quick witted, and very sarcastic. This segment could have been entertaining and fun with both of these guys making their points with some good natured jostling. I didn't figure that is how it would work out and of course it didn't. Too bad really.....Give them longer and leave it unscripted and we might all be saying it was pretty good.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Bill Clinton vs. Bob Dole. Puhleeze!
From: Beccy
Date: 10 Mar 03 - 09:09 AM

I think it would've been worth watching if Clinton had debated Newt Gingerich. THAT would've been good. They were truly the adversaries in the 90's. Gingrich was the only one who gave Clinton a run for his money. Dole, God bless 'em, (I did vote for the poor guy) just didn't have it in him to stand up to the slick good 'ole boy that is Bill Clinton.
Hmmm... there's a battle- a nice bland, heartland-of-America war hero against a firebrand, narcissistic southern boy.

Subject: RE: BS: Bill Clinton vs. Bob Dole. Puhleeze!
From: catspaw49
Date: 10 Mar 03 - 09:33 AM

Gingrich? Are you shitting me? The guy would never do it! One on one he never held a candle to Clinton....and he knows that. Besides, he's still jealous because there sure as hell weren't any 20+ year old interns lining up to blow him!!! At best, he was a guy in the right place at the right time and although he did know how to exploit the moment, when it all started turning brown for him, his downward spiral quickly became a plunge!

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Bill Clinton vs. Bob Dole. Puhleeze!
From: GUEST,Kim C no cookie
Date: 10 Mar 03 - 09:47 AM

That SNL bit was one of the funniest I've seen on there in a LOOOOONG time. They must have got some new writers - Queen Latifah's monologue had me AND Mister in stitches, and he don't usually laugh out loud at things like that.

How about Bill Clinton and Dan Quayle? mwhahahahahahahahaha

Subject: RE: BS: Bill Clinton vs. Bob Dole. Puhleeze!
From: Beccy
Date: 10 Mar 03 - 10:50 AM

Come on, Spaw... Gingrich was forced out by the Republicans because he was doing what they said they hated... He was cheatin' on his wife with his secretary. He didn't need interns- he had his office staff. He got what was coming to him.

...And aside from spearheading the campaign that made the House a Republican one during a "popular" Democrat president's tenure, I guess he didn't do anything. (He DID after all come up with the "Contract With America" concept that got that HUGE amount of Republican freshies elected.)

I hate to disagree with you (okay, that's a lie-) but I think he would've jumped at the chance to debate Clinton. I would be the first one on my couch, clicker in hand, to watch it, too!

Subject: RE: BS: Bill Clinton vs. Bob Dole. Puhleeze!
From: Ebbie
Date: 10 Mar 03 - 12:39 PM

Beccy, this is hardly Clinton's 'slick, good old boy' talking. This snippet shows more actual thinking on Clinton's part than the 'good old boy' parroting by Dole. In my opinion.

"Mr. Clinton argued that the cost of establishing peace in Iraq would so drain the treasury that the country should forgo a tax cut. ("Never before have we had a tax cut in times of national crisis. Lincoln didn't. F. D. R. didn't. With over 200,000 young Americans in the Persian Gulf, we shouldn't.") Mr. Dole countered that the nation could afford both. ("This is a war to protect American lives and preserve the American way of life, which means among other things the freedom to save and invest our own money instead of Washington taking it from us.") "

Subject: RE: BS: Bill Clinton vs. Bob Dole. Puhleeze!
From: Mark Clark
Date: 10 Mar 03 - 03:21 PM

I'd much rather have seen Bill Clinton debating Kurt Vonnegut or some other equally educated left-wing thinker. What's the point of having two right-wingers argue over stuff?

      - Mark

Subject: RE: BS: Bill Clinton vs. Bob Dole. Puhleeze!
From: Beccy
Date: 10 Mar 03 - 05:05 PM

You're a hoot, Mark...

Subject: RE: BS: Bill Clinton vs. Bob Dole. Puhleeze!
From: Bobert
Date: 10 Mar 03 - 07:02 PM

Good point, Mark. How about Amy Goodman (Pacifica Radio) and Slick Willie. You know he made the mistake of calling her a few years back and thought he would just be able to do a hit-and-run 1 minute interview. Wrong! She tore his Republican butt up and kept him on the air for 10 minutes while he tried to score *just one point*. Final score: Amy 17, Bill 0!

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Bill Clinton vs. Bob Dole. Puhleeze!
From: harpgirl
Date: 10 Mar 03 - 09:01 PM

I love Bob Dole, even though I would never vote Republican. And of course, I could have schtupped Billy in Arkansas, if I had been so inclined...I looked for this but 60 minutes had something else. Was it on at the end of the program? Those guys need to throw away their scripts. This will be very interesting to watch in the future if they do!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Bill Clinton vs. Bob Dole. Puhleeze!
From: DougR
Date: 11 Mar 03 - 01:18 AM

I agree with Beccy. Newt Gingrich would have been a worthy opponent for Bill Clinton. They both are good public speakers and present their party's views clearly. Bob Dole is a good man but no match for Bill Clinton when it comes to debate. It would not surprise me that CBS might have put this match together because they knew Clinton, who represent their POV, would cream the former senator from Kansas. In an informal setting, as Spaw pointed out, Dole would have done much better.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Bill Clinton vs. Bob Dole. Puhleeze!
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 11 Mar 03 - 11:09 AM

He DIDN'T cream him Doug. It was simply bad TV. I watched Dole for a few minutes last night (or the night before)on Larry and he was much more relaxed (with MUCH better make-up)

Nah. Bill vs. Tucker.....to the death!

Rick

Subject: RE: BS: Bill Clinton vs. Bob Dole. Puhleeze!
From: DougR
Date: 11 Mar 03 - 05:57 PM

Tucker? You got me there Rick. Who's Tucker?

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Bill Clinton vs. Bob Dole. Puhleeze!
From: Ebbie
Date: 11 Mar 03 - 06:06 PM

I agree with the person who suggested that Clinton-Rush Limbaugh would be some kind of a matchup. If from the point of view of the producers, 'good' TV is anything that makes people watch, that pairing would accommplish it. Can you imagine people sitting in their living rooms screaming at one or the other of them?

Subject: RE: BS: Bill Clinton vs. Bob Dole. Puhleeze!
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 11 Mar 03 - 07:01 PM

Doug, Doug, Doug!

Cossfire! Tucker Carlson! Son of Margaret Carlson. Young, bright articulate and right wing (I know that will seem like an oxymoron to some,) and he often debates Democrat Paul Begala and James (Corporal Cueball) Carvale.

Cheers

Rick

Subject: RE: BS: Bill Clinton vs. Bob Dole. Puhleeze!
From: DougR
Date: 12 Mar 03 - 01:16 AM

Thanks Rick. I know who you mean now, but I'm not sure he would be a match for Clinton. I still think Newt would be the best bet.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Bill Clinton vs. Bob Dole. Puhleeze!
From: DougR
Date: 12 Mar 03 - 01:17 AM

However, I do find the thought of Clinton versus Rush an exciting possiblility. Not that I think for a minute Clinton would agree to such a match.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Bill Clinton vs. Bob Dole. Puhleeze!
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Mar 03 - 01:22 AM

Yeah, but Rush doesn't play fair. He calls names. You might as well have Dan Ackroyd imitating Rush than the real Rush.

Frankly, I think Carville trumps Tucker every time. Tucker's OK, but he's not the most dynamic kid on the block.

Subject: RE: BS: Bill Clinton vs. Bob Dole. Puhleeze!
From: Beccy
Date: 12 Mar 03 - 02:46 PM

Clinton doesn't play fair, either. He parses words to oblivion and shtumps interns. Besides, he's not above a bald-faced lie if it'll suit him.

I think Rush, Newt or Jonah Goldberg would be the only debaters vs. Clinton that I'd be interested in watching. Any of those 3 would be fun.

Beccy

Subject: RE: BS: Bill Clinton vs. Bob Dole. Puhleeze!
From: DougR
Date: 12 Mar 03 - 04:04 PM

Yeah, I agree Beccy, Jonah could probably hold his own with ole Bill.

DougR