BS: Canada-US Present Relationship

Subject: BS: Canada-US Present Relationship
From: GUEST,Pat
Date: 04 Apr 03 - 12:41 AM

Hi:

I am Canadian, and will be moving to Atlanta for five months (January through May) in 2004.

I have been hearing really dreadful stories of Canadian cars in the US being vandalized, tires slashed, key scratches, windshields smashed, etc., because Canada did not support the invasion of Iraq.
Other stories, such as Canadians being refused service in restaurants, are also being circulated.

I don't know what is true and what isn't -- as an eBay shopper, I know that a lot of eBay sites are refusing to sell to Canadians. But I don't know about the other stories -- rumours fly in days like these.

Does anyone have any information? Needless to say, I am concerned.

Thank you.

Subject: RE: BS: Canada-US Present Relationship
From: CarolC
Date: 04 Apr 03 - 01:28 AM

I don't know about the smaller towns in Georgia, but we (Jack the Sailor and I) are in Columbus, which is about an hour and a half from Atlanta, and we go to Atlanta about once a month. JtS is Canadian. We have a Canadian flag where the front license plate goes on one of our cars. We haven't had any trouble so far. Both Atlanta and Columbus are fairly international cities, so maybe the people around here are just used to being around people from all over the world. Plus, there is a very strong culture of politeness here. Being Canadian, that's one of the things JtS really likes about this area ;-)

JtS says you're going to have to get get Georgia licence plates and a Georgia driver's licence within 30 days of coming here, so if you get your tags right away, that might give you some peace of mind. He also says that nobody here will know you're Canadian just from talking to you unless you tell them.

Subject: RE: BS: Canada-US Present Relationship
From: katlaughing
Date: 04 Apr 03 - 01:29 AM

According to this article it is only one ebay seller: click here and in a search of google, the one article I found about cars being vandalised had the victim softening her appraisal of the situation and saying that it was probably just a random thing.

I don't know about Atlanta, but I've not heard of any such problems here in Colorado.

kat

Subject: RE: BS: Canada-US Present Relationship
From: kendall
Date: 04 Apr 03 - 09:27 AM

Rumors. People do love rumors, especially nasty ones.
I've never heard anyone bad mouth Canada, and if I do, well; it wont be pretty.

Subject: RE: BS: Canada-US Present Relationship
From: *daylia*
Date: 04 Apr 03 - 09:35 AM

"He also says that nobody here will know you're Canadian just from talking to you unless you tell them."

Do people in Georgia say "eh?" too then? When I've travelled through the States I've found that's a dead giveaweh. I also discovered just how often I say it - kinda embarrassing eh? (Attracts teasing, anyweh).

daylia

Subject: RE: BS: Canada-US Present Relationship
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 04 Apr 03 - 10:09 AM

Hi Pat

RELAX!

Canada's relationship with the States is undergoing a blip....but there have been many OTHER blips, believe me.

For example, in the sixties we got a lot of bad publicity for welcoming (unofficially) draft dodgers, and deserters. Our Government generally turned a blind eye...while winking with the other one.

Every so often a US Senator or Congressman remembers that we've always supported (unofficially) Fidel Castro, and the shit hits the fan in the US.

Now we're dealing with "Operation Iraqi-Halliburton Freedom". This too will pass, and we'll be back to our (reasonably) normal relationship state.

But you have to understand.....IT IS NOT BASED ON FRIENDSHIP AND NEVER
HAS BEEN. It is so 'quid pro quo' it's hard to believe. American Presidents have absolutely LOATHED some of our Prime Ministers....Diefenbaker and Trudeau, and of course our current guy Jean Chretien.

We have learned how to live happily while being next door to the most well-armed country in the world, but it has very little to do with 'friendship', and everything to do with only making SMALL waves.

After all, if we were attacked by Upper Volta, we'd be conquered by noon. The States do NOT want Upper Voltans skiing in Plattsburg, so they'd save our ass....pronto.

We give away (or they'd simply 'take it') tiny chunks of our vast natural resources (water, wood etc.) and the US doesn't impose it's Government on us.....for the time being.

However....as far as personal friendships go....there'll be very little change. Think about it....your friends are your friends. There MAY be some problems in stores and restaurants....but that's still commerce, and the buck rules. Give it a year, and all will be fine.

Right now the US is making border crossings a real drag, but the economy of an awful lot of little decaying Yankee towns will take a big hit without those Canadian bucks, so expect to see that return to (mostly) normal as well.

Cheers

Rick

Subject: RE: BS: Canada-US Present Relationship
From: CarolC
Date: 04 Apr 03 - 12:42 PM

Do people in Georgia say "eh?" too then? When I've travelled through the States I've found that's a dead giveaweh. I also discovered just how often I say it - kinda embarrassing eh? (Attracts teasing, anyweh).

Apparently they don't notice it much. Being from Newfoundland, JtS doesn't say "eh", but one of our friends here who is from Alberta, does say "eh". He doesn't seem to get hassled about it. There are so many different accents around here because a large proportion of the people who live here come from different places. I think people just don't pay much attention to accents. Plus, as I said, people here are extremely polite.

Subject: RE: BS: Canada-US Present Relationship
From: Troll
Date: 04 Apr 03 - 01:28 PM

Rick, thanks for your insightful views on the Us/Canadian reltionship. It's nice to se a realistic viewpoint once in a while instead of the "every family has arguments" sort of crap that is usually presented or "Canada Good/Us Bad (or vice versa) which is the other which represents the other kind of crap that we are subjected to from both sides of the border.
Now if no mentions hockey, maybe this will all blow over.

troll

Subject: RE: BS: Canada-US Present Relationship
From: GUEST,Pat
Date: 04 Apr 03 - 01:32 PM

Thank you all for your responses -- I'm thinking from a slightly different perspective now.

Regarding "eh," -- I heard a comedian say once that the difference between Americans and Canadians is that Americans say, "Hey, how ya doin'?" and Canadians say "How ya doin', eh?"

Subject: RE: BS: Canada-US Present Relationship
From: JedMarum
Date: 04 Apr 03 - 01:41 PM

I have not a single disparaging word in Texas about Canada or Canadians (and in fact, in Texas one seldom has heard a disparaging word).

Now - if you were moving here from France, you might want to expect a bit more criticism!

;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Canada-US Present Relationship
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Apr 03 - 01:49 PM

i bad mouth canadia all the time....just not seriously...but then im from north idaho....where canadians and californians are good for target practice...

Subject: RE: BS: Canada-US Present Relationship
From: CarolC
Date: 04 Apr 03 - 02:04 PM

"Eh" update (eh!)

I just talked to JtS about that and he said if you say "eh" a lot, people might notice, but he said the people who are from around here think all Yankees (northerners) sound pretty much the same.

Subject: RE: BS: Canada-US Present Relationship
From: DougR
Date: 04 Apr 03 - 02:54 PM

We have lots of winter residents and visitors from Canada here in Arizona. There have been no such reports in our media. Canadians are fine folks and most of them (excluding L. H. of course :>))are good positive thinking people.

For reasons that should be apparant to one and all, however, I'm not particularly impressed with that country's leadership.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Canada-US Present Relationship
From: *daylia*
Date: 04 Apr 03 - 03:01 PM

It was in Minneapolis where I was last singled out for my "eh's", eh? Other than that, there were no noticeable differences in accent I recall in that part of the country. Must be different farther east, eh?

My sister, who's lived in Florida for about 20 years now, has worked real hard to lose her "eh"s, and to say her "r's" in a less Canadian fashion.(?) She said co-workers teased her about her r's - I still can't hear much of a difference though. She's picked up a noticeable southern twang too - which does make for some good-natured teasing!

It's interesting to note that according to the CBC last night, there has been very little change in the deployment of Canadian troops in the Gulf since Jean Chretien announced we would not be joining the coalition against Iraq last week. Canadian ships still carry out patrols in the Gulf, still escort American/coalition carriers across the "war zone", provide vital communications support etc. 31 Canadian soldiers on exchange with the American and British military are actively engaged within Iraq itself, right now.

In light of this, I really don't see that there's much for the US to feel "offended" about.

daylia

Subject: RE: BS: Canada-US Present Relationship
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 04 Apr 03 - 03:03 PM

Pat, If we are still in the area when you get here, we can meet and swap stories.

Those down here who thing about Canada, Like us and respect us. Except for thr service industry in Florida. They say
"What's the difference between a Canadian and a Canoe"
"Canoes Tip"

I'm sure you'll enjoy Atlanta and you're gonna be here for the best weather By the end of May its almost to hot to go outdoors.

Subject: RE: BS: Canada-US Present Relationship
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 04 Apr 03 - 03:08 PM

Over here we can't tell the difference between how people from Canada and the USA talk. Apart from Newfoundlanders who are assumed to be Irish.

Subject: RE: BS: Canada-US Present Relationship
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 04 Apr 03 - 03:08 PM

DougR I'm not much impressed with the Bush Leagers running this government.

Subject: RE: BS: Canada-US Present Relationship
From: kendall
Date: 04 Apr 03 - 03:48 PM

Most of the American voters didn't vote for either Bush or Chretien

Subject: RE: BS: Canada-US Present Relationship
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Apr 03 - 03:50 PM

Hey Guest potatohead, look forward to seeing you in June

http://204.228.236.37/News/story.asp?ID=35222

Subject: RE: BS: Canada-US Present Relationship
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 04 Apr 03 - 04:04 PM

Stop it! Stop it! Stop it!

We DON'T talk funny eh? It's YOU who's be talkin' funny!!!

Oops, sorry. This was meant for the "culture of Offendedness thread.

P.S. Thanks Troll.

Rick

Subject: RE: BS: Canada-US Present Relationship
From: artbrooks
Date: 04 Apr 03 - 05:46 PM

Under the provisions of the North American Free Trade Agreement... Anyway, the only way to tell Canadians around here is that they are among the very small minority that bother to use turn signals. Glad to have you with us.

Subject: RE: BS: Canada-US Present Relationship
From: DonMeixner
Date: 04 Apr 03 - 05:55 PM

Pat you really needn't worry. Just remember to bring 40% more of your funny and confusing money.


"Loons, Chuckles softly and shakes his head."

Don

Subject: RE: BS: Canada-US Present Relationship
From: DonMeixner
Date: 04 Apr 03 - 05:58 PM

Carol,

How is Jack doing with the climatic change? I can't stand the heat and humidity of the south below Pennsylvania. There is on a lakes difference between me and Toronto. Has he noticed a difference or hasn't he been in Georgia long enough.

Don

Subject: RE: BS: Canada-US Present Relationship
From: CarolC
Date: 04 Apr 03 - 06:35 PM

He's been here for about four years. He doesn't handle heat very well, so he stays inside where it's air-conditioned during most of the hot weather. Being originally from Rhode Island, I don't handle heat and humidity very well either. JtS loves the weather here when it's not hot and humid though ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Canada-US Present Relationship
From: DonMeixner
Date: 04 Apr 03 - 06:49 PM

ANd when was that? January 24th between 2 and 4?

Subject: RE: BS: Canada-US Present Relationship
From: CarolC
Date: 04 Apr 03 - 06:52 PM

;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Canada-US Present Relationship
From: Troll
Date: 04 Apr 03 - 07:51 PM

Jed, the "disparaging word" post reminded me of a joke which I will now share. (Aren't YOU the lucky ones!)
The scene is a typical MGM-type Western Saloon. Lying on the floor is the body or a man, and standing over him is a man with a six-shooter in his hand. The man is saying to the Marshall who is standing beside him; "He said a discouraging word."

troll

Subject: RE: BS: Canada-US Present Relationship
From: kendall
Date: 05 Apr 03 - 09:26 AM

Rick is right. We have always had blips in our relationship. Seems like it all started in 1812 when we invaded Canada. They kicked our asses, and, we never got over it.

Subject: RE: BS: Canada-US Present Relationship
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 05 Apr 03 - 09:40 AM

Well, I wasn't gonna mention that Kendall.....but if you don't mention which side "WE" were on during the Civil War, or the fact that good old enlightened Toronto had as many "No dogs or Jews" signs as The States, or how many Afro-Canadians were in the Canadian Musician's association before the sixties, or even how many Canadians lost their jobs during the fifties 'red-scare' HERE(!!)......well, hopefully you get my point.

We do NOT have a monopoly on good stuff here. We are a remarkable country, to have managed not to be amalgamated into the States. There really IS a "Canadian personality".

The United States is a remarkable country....almost totally ungovernable because of it's vastness and regional attitudes. Yet it hangs in there.

I am hugely critical of BOTH countries, because I want them to REMAIN great places to live. Patriotism has fuck all to do with standing up at a ball game!

Cheers

Rick

Subject: RE: BS: Canada-US Present Relationship
From: GUEST,Peter T.
Date: 05 Apr 03 - 09:52 AM

It is time for Canada to become a rogue state and develop nuclear weapons. We foolishly agreed not to back in the 1940s. yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: BS: Canada-US Present Relationship
From: *daylia*
Date: 05 Apr 03 - 10:09 AM

Well, I don't know about the nuclear weapons, Peter. Seems we have enough trouble keeping the nuclear power plants up and running safely!

I found hope in the fact that a thousand Canadians braved the freezing rain in a Toronto rally yesterday to show support for the US - not for the current war, but for the States as a friend, neighbour and trade partner. Story here. I think that the rally expresses the attitudes of most Canadians - anti-war, but in general, pro-US.

Bodes well for the peace and security of North America, imo!

daylia

Subject: RE: BS: Canada-US Present Relationship
From: catspaw49
Date: 05 Apr 03 - 10:29 AM

Anybody else see Robin Williams' latest HBO special where he refers to Canada as a "loft above a really wild party?"

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Canada-US Present Relationship
From: GUEST, heric
Date: 05 Apr 03 - 12:03 PM

Bless you Rick Fielding for mentioning/not mentioning all those things at 09:40 AM. All the tripe about forever peaceful and harmonious and non-[fill in the blank]-ist (and environmentally pure) is such silliness. Canadians marching around the world with that boring speech so frequently for so long has given all Canadians a reputation for being . . . well, you know. . .

Subject: RE: BS: Canada-US Present Relationship
From: catspaw49
Date: 05 Apr 03 - 12:07 PM

............huh........uh.........er, uh.........What'd you say there heric? I kinda' nodded off during your post.............

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Canada-US Present Relationship
From: Peter T.
Date: 05 Apr 03 - 12:11 PM

I am surprised only 1,000 turned out, I was sure we had more moronic, lick-spittle Yankee bumsucking lackeys in Canada than that, many of them in Parliament. yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: BS: Canada-US Present Relationship
From: GUEST, heric
Date: 05 Apr 03 - 12:12 PM

oh, please spaw, please be nice to me.

Subject: RE: BS: Canada-US Present Relationship
From: GUEST, heric
Date: 05 Apr 03 - 12:13 PM

ROFLMSFAO spaw!

Subject: RE: BS: Canada-US Present Relationship
From: GUEST, heric
Date: 05 Apr 03 - 12:37 PM

Oh, spaw, were you coming to the defense of Canada? I'm sorry - I should have mentioned that I'm a fourth generation Vancouverite (quite a rare breed, in fact) I'm allowed to call Canadians boring. (We are boring, just no need to activley advertise it all the time, I feel.)

Subject: RE: BS: Canada-US Present Relationship
From: kendall
Date: 05 Apr 03 - 12:47 PM

None of MY Canadian friends are BORING!

Subject: RE: BS: Canada-US Present Relationship
From: *daylia*
Date: 05 Apr 03 - 01:13 PM

Well, one thing's for sure - Canadian weather ain't boring!

Subject: RE: BS: Canada-US Present Relationship
From: GUEST, heric
Date: 05 Apr 03 - 01:14 PM

What a mess I'm making of the thread, and for myself. (And I'm at my desk, working - I better re-read all of today's work product on Monday.) You're right, kendall, and in fact my original point was that Canadians are not nearly as boring as they frequently present themselves outside the country. I retract my misstatement in that regard at 12:57 and head home for a bit of gardening and bungee-jumping.



don't generalize. don't generalize. don't generalize.

Subject: RE: BS: Canada-US Present Relationship
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 05 Apr 03 - 01:25 PM

I saw the Downchild Blues Band last night! Not boring at all!!!

A few rambling observations.

Canada and the US have a very complex relationship. Canadian React to every twitch the US makes. Americans barely notice Canada. Down here In the deep south pretty much everyone perceives the realtionship to be a good one. I seldom agree with GWB but I think he was on the money when he said were were like family. One doesn't always agree with one's siblings put they are the ones who understand you and who WILL be there when the chips are down.

In Newfoundland England is the mother and USA is the wild brother. growing up, we sang "God Save the Queen" in school. There were US bases from which the "yankees" very friendly and generous, would visit our communities support our economy and marry our women. families have spats, we have had spats with the USA. Canada does have a different neational personality than the US does but to me, the people here in Georgia are more similar to Newfoundlanders than Ontarians are.

Subject: RE: BS: Canada-US Present Relationship
From: GUEST, heric
Date: 05 Apr 03 - 01:27 PM

12:37

spaw: do you live near Lebanon, Ohio?
http://reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=worldNews&storyID=2513808

Subject: RE: BS: Canada-US Present Relationship
From: Troll
Date: 05 Apr 03 - 03:47 PM

We love you too, Peter.

troll

Subject: RE: BS: Canada-US Present Relationship
From: *daylia*
Date: 05 Apr 03 - 06:54 PM

Ah troll, maybe Peter's just a tad upset about stuff like this. A relatively recent behavioral adaptation of certain Canadians (like MP Stephen Harper), probably closely related to this.

Hmmm. Hope it passes quickly.

daylia

Subject: RE: BS: Canada-US Present Relationship
From: GUEST,G.I. Joke Lark
Date: 05 Apr 03 - 07:17 PM

Dear Peter, that was hilarious. As usual, you have me wetting my keyboard from every orifice.

Actually the rest of the potential protestors were watching Don Cherry's TV Special, "Queers in Figure-skating? Not on My Watch!"

G.I. Joke

Subject: RE: BS: Canada-US Present Relationship
From: Peter T.
Date: 06 Apr 03 - 08:53 AM

You clearly can't be Canadian, Joke, we Canadians have great control over every orifice, except when there is a clean white snowbank which for some reason requires, er, marking. In fact, "Yankee stay home" would look pretty good in a snowbank right now. Time to get a couple of quarts of water (or American beer).yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: BS: Canada-US Present Relationship
From: jimmyt
Date: 06 Apr 03 - 09:36 AM

I live in Georgia, and there has been such an influx of people from everywhere for the last 15 years, you will probably hardly be noticed in Atlanta. They probably will be so delighted you're not a yankee, they will be delighted!....grin

Subject: RE: BS: Canada-US Present Relationship
From: CarolC
Date: 06 Apr 03 - 10:08 AM

Anybody else see Robin Williams' latest HBO special where he refers to Canada as a "loft above a really wild party?"

*G* Yeah, but the best stuff happens in the loft ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Canada-US Present Relationship
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 06 Apr 03 - 10:44 AM

I just received this from my rural folk informant Jaques Les Galoshes

I jus be seen dis tread about Presents and Canada and de US, and I wanna say dat it's about time vous Americans sent US some presents! We give you dose Celine Dions and Shania's Twains, so da least you can do is give us your Dixie cup Chicks. Dey can merde on dat Howdy Doody fron Texas all day long and we loggers won't care, as long as dey show us der mandolins!

Jaques le Rubber Boot

****************************************************************

Peter T.
Don't be so sure that "Joke Lark" isn't Canadian. Both his/her celebrity references are pretty obscure in the States. Seems like the work of Stephen Harper to me.

Cheers

Rick

Subject: RE: BS: Canada-US Present Relationship
From: Big Mick
Date: 06 Apr 03 - 02:21 PM

I feel like a Canada/US version of the song "The Orange and the Green". I love Canada and consider meself an adopted son. But...........writing names and clever sayings in the snow is NOT a Canadian thing. Us Meechigen lads used to do it on our way ice fishing. I never had a problem geting "Mick Lane" done. But my cousin, Edjiu Maciewski, could never get to that third "i", let alone dot any of them.

All the best,

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: Canada-US Present Relationship
From: SINSULL
Date: 06 Apr 03 - 02:41 PM

I don't know guys, that "rogue nation" has a lot of sex appeal. Maybe you should consider nuclear weapons. Certainly get you some attention.

Subject: RE: BS: Canada-US Present Relationship
From: Peter T.
Date: 06 Apr 03 - 02:58 PM

It's the little smiley face circles over the i's that separates the Canadians from the boys. yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: BS: Canada-US Present Relationship
From: Big Mick
Date: 06 Apr 03 - 03:00 PM

Peter, you might get the outline, but we fill in the color portion.

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: Canada-US Present Relationship
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 06 Apr 03 - 04:35 PM

Jeez Mick....yer cousin was using UPPER CASE and BOLD!

Damn, I wish I could do those "thingy" "things". T'would make my jokes funnier!

Rick

Subject: RE: BS: Canada-US Present Relationship
From: gnu
Date: 07 Apr 03 - 06:57 AM

Rick... Cellephane Dion and Shania Twang ? That's enough to get nuked right there.

Subject: RE: BS: Canada-US Present Relationship
From: catspaw49
Date: 07 Apr 03 - 09:38 AM

Carol, I think you're probably right!!! Especially considering where you are now living. Columbus, Georgia is at the northern limits of "The Great Georgia Gnat Country," with it's capital in Albany (al-BAY-nee). A few years ago, southwest Georgia lobbied to have the state bird changed to the gnat but it went down to defeat.

I've always thought that the women in that area were some of the greatest mothers in the entire world and it was easy to tell who the great ones were too! The best mothers cut the seat out of their kids' pants so their little butts are out in the breeze! Truly an act of love as this keeps the gnats off of their faces.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Canada-US Present Relationship
From: catspaw49
Date: 07 Apr 03 - 09:47 AM

BTW, I have always been very impressed with the leadership shown on many fronts by Toronto. On many levels you folks are far ahead of the rest of the entire continent. Just this morning I heard that Toronto now leads all places in North America in number of reported cases of the SARS virus. Well done!!!

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Canada-US Present Relationship
From: *daylia*
Date: 07 Apr 03 - 10:10 AM

Thanks Spaw. It's nice to know our efforts are appreciated!

SARS ... Shovelling American Rhetorical Shit! An endless, thankless job, but someone's gotta do it!

;)   daylia

Subject: RE: BS: Canada-US Present Relationship
From: CarolC
Date: 07 Apr 03 - 01:43 PM

Really Spaw? I swallowed a lot of gnats when I was living in West Virginia, but I haven't seen (or breathed) a single gnat since I came here last August. I'm extremely impressed with the size of the local ant population though.

(BTW, we started up the air conditioner yesterday for the first time this year.

Subject: RE: BS: Canada-US Present Relationship
From: robomatic
Date: 07 Apr 03 - 03:31 PM

I was just in Vancouver BC, drove up from Seattle, and as far as the West goes, didn't see hide nor hair nor breath of a problem. Those yanks apt to hold a grudge should also remember all the important help we've received from Canada when we really needed it, what goes through my mind is the three embassy hostages rescued by Canada during that little problem with that 'other' member of the axis of evil, Iran. I remember a big sign 'Thank you Canada' on the roads, apropos of nothing.

Meanwhile, even up here in Alaska, we give the ultimate tribute to Canada - we take Canadian change!

robo

Subject: RE: BS: Canada-US Present Relationship
From: Metchosin
Date: 07 Apr 03 - 03:40 PM

Damned civilized of you robomatic. I mentioned the rescue on another thread when I suggested the US should be pleased we took the position we did, you never know when the mouse might prove useful to the elephant.

Subject: RE: BS: Canada-US Present Relationship
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 07 Apr 03 - 04:07 PM

Spaw ain't it the truth. I try to stay away from any kind of wild vegetation in the summer. Iffin ya go in the woods ya got lot of dangerous critters. You got yer cottommouths and diamondbacks, yer gnats chiggers and skeeters, yer black widders and yer brown recluses, yer toothless pulpwooders in their NASCAR caps and torn T-shirts. Yepper, I buy golf balls in bulk and when I slice 'em into the woods I always take the penalty.

Subject: RE: BS: Canada-US Present Relationship
From: GUEST,Pat
Date: 08 Apr 03 - 12:48 AM

Oh gee, gnats, cottonmouths, black widows, heat and humidity! I think I'd better do a lot of research before I go to Atlanta!

Which allows a segue into this:

Every year, a lot of American tourists come to Canada in June, July or August, with skis, toboggans and winter clothes!

Subject: RE: BS: Canada-US Present Relationship
From: CarolC
Date: 08 Apr 03 - 12:53 AM

I don't think you have to worry about those critters in Atlanta, Pat. They aren't a problem in Columbus, and I didn't notice them at all during the times I was in Atlanta. I think you need to go into the woods or the countryside before you'll notice them. But we definitely have the heat and humidity.

Subject: RE: BS: Canada-US Present Relationship
From: Cluin
Date: 08 Apr 03 - 02:09 AM

Guest,Pat,

I know! Isn't it crazy how they come up here expecting to indulge in winter sports during our coldest months. We won't venture outside then, when exposed skin flash-freezes in 2 seconds flat. By the middle of May I like to make sure we have enough musk-ox chips laid by and my two extra-heavy polar bear hide storm doors on my igloo. We look over the sled dogs and bring the best male and bitch in with us and shoot the rest for eating through the freezin' times.


Seriously, I wouldn't worry too much. I've heard the stories about rudeness, refusal of service and vehicle vandalization too. And I know someone personally who has experienced it, but it's definitely not the norm. There are always a few arseholes around, but they have fairly short attention spans and things will blow over for them soon.

Actually, I was playing a St. Paddy's Night gig well into Michigan on March 17th, the day the war started, and I heard no condemnation of Canada's stand from anyone down there, not even from any of the drunks in the bar. We had a great time playing for them, the party went on till the wee hours. I've always found Americans to be great friends and the audiences are definitely much better on average than northern Ontarians. Incidentally, we had no problems crossing the border at Soo Michigan, going into the States, but the Canadian Customs boys stopped us and search us thoroughly the next day when we returned. Go figger. At least they didn't want to look in our bums. They can do that, you know, any old time they like...

And as Daylia said above, Canada is actually providing a strong supportive role in the war effort over there... 4th, in fact, right after the Australians, (moreso than a lot of countries spouting lip service in support of the war) despite our government's stand against entering the conflict directly. We all hope this thing is wrapped up quickly so we join in and deploy our weapons of mass reconstruction.

Subject: RE: BS: Canada-US Present Relationship
From: *daylia*
Date: 08 Apr 03 - 11:08 AM

"We all hope this thing is wrapped up quickly so we join in and deploy our weapons of mass reconstruction."

Hear hear, Cluin! Let's make sure that our "weapons of mass reconstruction" are deployed according to the wishes and best interests of (whatever remains of) the Iraqis though, and not just the benefit of the (non-Iraqi) corporations who carry it out. Obviously, not an easy task!

daylia

Subject: RE: BS: Canada-US Present Relationship
From: GUEST,pdc
Date: 08 Apr 03 - 12:13 PM

Speaking of weapons of mass reconstruction, has anyone noticed what is going on in Afghanistan since Bush broke his promise to "rebuild" it? The Taliban are regathering, rearming, and may well end up running the country again.

Pity the poor bloody Afghans who have to survive both the Taliban and the US!

Subject: RE: BS: Canada-US Present Relationship
From: *daylia*
Date: 08 Apr 03 - 01:39 PM

pdr - did you see this animation yet? Turn your speakers on! It's well done, and directly relates to what you said about the "rebuilding" of Afghanistan.

daylia

Subject: RE: BS: Canada-US Present Relationship
From: GUEST,pdc
Date: 08 Apr 03 - 03:58 PM

The animation was excellent, but I really, really wish that someone would make some sort of filmed statement, animated or otherwise, that didn't use humor as part of its message.

It seems to me that outrage has become entertainment these days -- consider Bowling for Columbine took an Oscar, that anti-war statements take the form of entertaining cartoons, etc.

If outrage is something that we pay to go and see, and give awards to, and laugh at (or with), then what is its purpose? It almost indicates that outrage will change nothing.

Just my thoughts on this issue.

Subject: RE: BS: Canada-US Present Relationship
From: Cluin
Date: 09 Apr 03 - 01:34 AM

Nothing new under the sun, pdc. Cartoons and movies are no more nor less effective than protest songs.

Subject: RE: BS: Canada-US Present Relationship
From: *daylia*
Date: 09 Apr 03 - 08:45 AM

Why do I like cartoons? They usually get important messages across much more clearly and easily than the written word. And as the old song says, "A spoonful of sugar helps the medicine go down". That's important, especially when the "medicine" turns as bitter as it has been lately.

I didn't think there was much funny about the animation, except the rather stupid sneaky expression on the 'terrorist's' face in the final frame. But you're right, pdc. There are limits to the appropriateness of humour. I just hope we don't reach those limits for a long time to come, or we just might mire ourselves down in grief and anger and pessimism instead.

"Against the assault of laughter, no-thing can stand!" (Sorry, don't know which genius I can credit that too!) Hmmm, so if we got hundreds of thousands of people to gather outside the Pentagon and roar with laughter for days on end, would Dubya et al eventually topple over?!? What would we call it - a new Weapon of Mass Delerium?
At this point, I'm about ready to try anything that doesn't draw blood or poison the environment ...

;) daylia

Subject: RE: BS: Canada-US Present Relationship
From: GUEST,pdc
Date: 09 Apr 03 - 11:27 AM

Yes, laughing at Bush would probably be effective, if done en masse and in person.

And he's so easy to laugh at! Think Alfred E. Newman!

But he's not funny when he calls the shots, literally.

Subject: RE: BS: Canada-US Present Relationship
From: Joe Offer
Date: 10 Apr 03 - 01:33 PM

Kendall asked me to post this.
-Joe Offer-

---

I've never posted a piece from elsewhere, and don't know how to do it.
I'd like to
Remember...

- The 4 Canadian servicemen killed in Afghanistan by U.S. "friendly fire", while serving in the last U.S. Invasion.

- The Canadian warships patrolling the Arabian Gulf as part of the Afghanistan coalition for the last year and a half (and currently still on patrol).

- The Canadian Peacekeeping force in Bosnia, serving with U.S. forces.

- The Canadian forces that served in Kuwait as part of the Coalition Forces.

- The Canadian Airports filled with U.S. airplanes on September 11 (and the week after)

- The hospitality of Canadians in Gander, Goose Bay and Halifax to those stranded travellers on Sept 11.

- The Canadian firemen who went to New York City of their own accord to be part of the recovery efforts.

- The Canadian Ambassador to Iran who smuggled four Americans out of Iran (using Canadian passports)

- And remember... when Ronald Reagan vetoed sanctions against Saddam Hussein after he gassed thousands of Kurds.

- And remember... when the U.S. supported Iraq in their war with Iran.

- And remember... how Canada joined World War 2 in September 1939, not 1942.

- And remember... how Canada joined World War 1 in 1914 not 1917.

So before you get down on CANADA, remember that Canada has been there for the U.S. more than the U.S has ever been there for Canada.

Remember that the world is more complex than playing cowboys with those you don't like (today). Canadians and Americans are friends, but we don't have to like everything you do.

We wish you luck in Iraq and we will be there to help pick up the pieces with you, but do not drop your true friends over your latest whim.

Subject: RE: BS: Canada-US Present Relationship
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 10 Apr 03 - 07:25 PM

Thanks Joe.

Subject: RE: BS: Canada-US Present Relationship
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 10 Apr 03 - 07:30 PM

Thank you Canada

Subject: RE: BS: Canada-US Present Relationship
From: kendall
Date: 10 Apr 03 - 07:40 PM

Don't mention it Jack

Subject: RE: BS: Canada-US Present Relationship
From: Steve Latimer
Date: 11 Apr 03 - 12:01 AM

Thanks Kendall

Subject: RE: BS: Canada-US Present Relationship
From: GUEST,pdc
Date: 11 Apr 03 - 12:43 AM

I'm not sure where to post this, so I'm just going to put it in various threads, as I think everyone should read this.

Michael Ignatieff, a Professor of Human Rights at Harvard, wrote an article for New York Times Magazine on January 5th of this year, before the war in Iraq, but when it was pending. It is called The Burden, and it is a thoughtful, intelligent, balanced look at the role of the US in today's world.

He discusses the responsibilities that the US has taken upon itself, the cost to the country and its people, all from -- I repeat -- an extremely balanced perspective.

It's very long, and it's well worth reading. It's at the following link:

Michael Ignatieff -- The Burden

Subject: RE: BS: Canada-US Present Relationship
From: *daylia*
Date: 11 Apr 03 - 07:44 AM

kendall, Joe - thanks for the article. I'm wondering whose words those are, kendall?

And I'd like to remember the Canadian soldiers who were killed in Iraq during the last week or so - a 21yr old who'd joined the US Marines while living with his mother in the States, and one of the Canadian soldiers on exchange with the US military.

Thanks for the link re Canada and the Iranian hostages, JtS.

daylia

Subject: RE: BS: Canada-US Present Relationship
From: kendall
Date: 11 Apr 03 - 09:10 AM

I can't say who wrote this; it came to me in an e mail.

Subject: RE: BS: Canada-US Present Relationship
From: robomatic
Date: 11 Apr 03 - 10:30 PM

Another nice U.S. Canada response to world history - When the U.S. was fighting Gt. Britain for the second time -War of 1812 U.S. calls it, don't know if the English even remember it, the U.S. was having more luck than most with a certain wooden ship called The Constitution. The English weren't used to losing naval engagements, but the colonials had started a habit which lasts to this day, of spending a lot of money on military technology. The Constitution class of ships were heavily built, packed slightly less cannon power than a regular Man O'War, and were slightly faster. Well, we Yanks don't like to remember it much but a certain English captain liked to lay offshore of Boston and by his back-and-forth sailing actions outside the mouth of the Charles challenged the Constitution's sister ship, whose name I can't recall, it might be the Constellation. When that ship finally issued forth, The Englishman demolished it in 15 minutes and towed it off to Halifax.

Halifax and Boston were rival shipping points, and during our little spats with the Brits, each was port for Privateers, which were basically pirates (or in modern biz speak 'entrepreneurs') who were licensed by their side to prey off the other guys' shipping. So Yanks were attacking the English and dragging 'em back to Boston, and Brits were attacking the Americans and towing 'em into Halifax. With classic anglo understatement, the great Canadian raconteur/ poet/ songster Stan Rogers wrote Barrett's Privateers, where he has his side lose to the Americans! In history I don't think the Canadian / British side lost that much at sea.

Halifax has a lovely stone fortress which was not built to defend them from the French!

Anyhow, flash foreword to December 1917. A French munitions ship catches fire in Halifax Harbour (Yeah, I'll even spell it wrong when I'm covering a brit topic). It explodes and kills over 2,000 people and makes thousands more homeless.

Most of the aid came from Boston, Massachusetts and is commemorated to this day in the Halifax Maritime Museum.

To me it's a great lesson in rivalry that does not withstand compassion. I don't know if I'm putting this down right, but we couldn't have a better northern neighbor, excuse me, -bour. I don't know how they put up with us, except that here in Alaska, we have to put up with them when we try to drive south with twelve guns in the boot.

For more info on Halifax Harbour explosion:

Halfix Harbour

robo

Subject: RE: BS: Canada-US Present Relationship
From: GUEST,pdc
Date: 12 Apr 03 - 11:46 AM

GWB has now cancelled his May 5th trip to Canada, citing Canada's war stance.

Oh, I really hope he is ousted in 2004!!

Subject: RE: BS: Canada-US Present Relationship
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 12 Apr 03 - 11:54 AM

pdc, we are gonna PAY and PAY and PAY!

I'm afraid the Dems don't have a snowball's chance. Number one, their candidates are weak and virtually invisible, and number two, America won't change horses during a war....and believe me Dubya will make SURE there's still a war.

Yes, I KNOW I'm cynical, but to paraphrase GB Shaw, "The ability to see accurately is called cynicism by those who don't posess it". Hope he's wrong, ha ha!

Rick