BS: WV Governor = Clinton Clone

Subject: BS: WV Governor = Clinton Clone
From: GUEST,Claymore
Date: 13 May 03 - 12:00 PM

At the risk of opening old wounds, creating chaos in the universe... what the hell, I'm going to do it anyway...

It appears the Governor of our great state has been caught in an affair with the wife of a musician, one Philip Frye, a bass player in the Kanawha County area of the state. Now I really don't care about the affair (no, I mean REALLY) but the below quote made my day.

This is from the Charleston Daily Mail (www.dailymail.com/news/News/2003051238)

The following is a vastly truncated version of the story, but I had to cut it off at an appropriate quote:

Monday May 12, 2003

Gov. Bob Wise released a statement today saying he was "not faithful to my family" after his office was asked about allegations that he had been implicated in the divorce case of a woman who works in the state development office...

Wise's press secretary was contacted after a Kanawha County man confirmed today that his divorce case in Kanawha County Family Court alleges his wife has been having a relationship with another man, whom he identified as Wise.

Philip Frye, 40, declined to comment on specifics but said that his divorce case includes allegations that the man he identified as Wise and Frye's wife, Angela Mascia-Frye, had been having an affair for some time.

"I didn't come down with the last rain," Frye, a musician who lives in Hugheston in eastern Kanawha County, said. "I let this thing go on for months so I could get as much evidence as I possibly could.

"I had private detectives all over this thing. I've got pictures and documents -- all kinds of hard evidence."

Frye said he is going to withhold exact details of the allegations or a copy of his divorce filing for the time being, but said he placed much of the blame on Wise for failure of his almost seven-year marriage. Frye said he had had less success with his music career lately and the financial strain caused by the divorce was great.

"That little weasel-faced bastard," Frye said. "Typical Democrat."


(Disclaimer: I DID NOT MAKE THIS UP!)

Subject: RE: BS: WV Governor = Clinton Clone
From: CarolC
Date: 13 May 03 - 12:07 PM

So what was Newt Gingerich, Bob Livingston, and Rudy Gulianni's excuse?

Subject: RE: BS: WV Governor = Clinton Clone
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 13 May 03 - 01:38 PM

Once again a creep owns up, after he's been nabbed. Obviously I would support many of Clinton's policies, but Carol, it bothers me when so many excuse his behaviour by saying "nyah, the other side does it too"!

I doubt I'd agree with you Claymore on virtually anything Political but I believe that a whole generation has grown up thinking that to cheat with a bimbo (or multiple bimbos) is cool and I think Clinton disgraced the Presidency. Not just by doing what most did in the past but KNOWINGLY allowing himself to be caught so easily...his deliberate recklessness made him vulnerable to more than just possible impeachment.

Cheers

Rick

Subject: RE: BS: WV Governor = Clinton Clone
From: CarolC
Date: 13 May 03 - 01:48 PM

Well, I'm certainly not excusing bad behavior. But I do like to point out that people don't do things like that "because they're Democrats" or whatever. To me it's like saying that when a person of color commits a crime, it's inherently because they're a person of color, but when a white person commits a crime, it's not because they're white. Flawed reasoning is what I have a problem with.

When Democrats cheat on their spouses, it's not because this is what Democrats do. It's because it's what some people from all points on the political spectrum do. It's hardly an inherently "Democratic" problem. And I'm not a Democrat (or a Republican), so partisanship has nothing to do with my position.

As far as the timing of this news is concerned, I'd bet that it has more to do with the beginning of a new election cycle than anything else.

Subject: RE: BS: WV Governor = Clinton Clone
From: katlaughing
Date: 13 May 03 - 01:52 PM

Sounds to me like the musician is a failure in more ways than one and he's using this as an excuse to win his divorce case. No one other person can cause a marriage to fail, esp. if that person is not one of the two parties in the marriage. If one them went loooking elsewhere, the marraige was in trouble anyway. If his musical career hasn't been going well, then he might need to practice a bit more or change his approach.:-) He really sounds as though he's gloating which, imo, is just as unseemingly as dragging all of this into the open. There used to be a time when someone such as he would be embarrassed to be known as a cuckold and would have dealt with it in a quiet manner.

Subject: RE: BS: WV Governor = Clinton Clone
From: Janie
Date: 13 May 03 - 02:26 PM

Rick,

Why is the woman always a bimbo?

Bob Wise has proven himself to be a power-hungry opportunist more than once in the course of his political career, and I have to say that while appalled, I am not particularly shocked by this revelation. I agree with Carol that his immoral behavior has nothing to do with his political affiliation. Let us not forget that Republican Gov. Arch Moore went to prison for his abuse of power, but much as I hate to admit it, that doesn't mean that all Republicans are crooks.

It may be, however, that our dollar enfluenced political system has evolved (or devolved) to the point that we must assume in most cases that those who manage to stay in power become corrupt. There is the saying that "power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely."
I wonder, is it that, or is that those who actively seek and love power are more easily (willingly) corrupted?

A bit of thread creep...Claymore, what part of WV do you hail from?

Janie

Subject: RE: BS: WV Governor = Clinton Clone
From: Greg F.
Date: 13 May 03 - 03:53 PM

Please. Is anyone here truly naive enough (or ignorant enough?) to think that philandering - not only by politicians of whatever party - is at all unuaual or a 20th century invention? Or that Clinton was the first or only U.S. president to engage in illicit sex?

Big deal. Just another non-news story.

Subject: RE: BS: WV Governor = Clinton Clone
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 13 May 03 - 10:22 PM

Hmmmmmm, well I'm not sure about Claymore's motivation but I'm damn sure about mine. Clinton's fucking was no different than any other powerful guy's fucking, regardless of party affiliation. His recklessness in pushing the envelope til' he got caught, WAS. He could easily have kept it private as the others who get away with it do, but I guess that wouldn't have been as exciting. Consequently he allowed us to be in the perverted mess were in eight now. What he could have accomplished.....instead he opened the door for this ignorant cocksucker who's kicking the world in the ass at the moment.

I'll try not to use the word 'bimbo' again.

Rick

Subject: RE: BS: WV Governor = Clinton Clone
From: GUEST,pdc
Date: 13 May 03 - 10:29 PM

LOL!! Thank you for not using the word "bimbo" any more. Feel free to continue using "cocksucker."

Subject: RE: BS: WV Governor = Clinton Clone
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 13 May 03 - 10:33 PM

Who me..... emotional over what Clinton's behaviour allowed to happen? Nahhhhhhhh not too much, ha ha.

Rick

Subject: RE: BS: WV Governor = Clinton Clone
From: jimmyt
Date: 13 May 03 - 11:12 PM

Surprised she was cheating on a Bass player with a politician. We bass players are normally adept with Gstrings. I also thought adultery in West Virginia was sleeping around on your sister. (Sorry Too good to pass up!)

Subject: RE: BS: WV Governor = Clinton Clone
From: CarolC
Date: 13 May 03 - 11:29 PM

It was this bit that prompted my initial response in this thread:

The following is a vastly truncated version of the story, but I had to cut it off at an appropriate quote:

"That little weasel-faced bastard," Frye said. "Typical Democrat."

Subject: RE: BS: WV Governor = Clinton Clone
From: alanabit
Date: 14 May 03 - 02:57 AM

Shucks Claymore. A Democrat gets caught with his pants down. Just smile and enjoy it mate - you wouldn't want to have less fun than him now, would you?

Subject: RE: BS: WV Governor = Clinton Clone
From: An Pluiméir Ceolmhar
Date: 14 May 03 - 12:31 PM

We know that Clinton is a cocksuckee, but where's the evidence that Arbustito is a cocksucker?

Subject: RE: BS: WV Governor = Clinton Clone
From: GUEST,Claymore
Date: 14 May 03 - 12:37 PM

No, but I loved the quote.

You have to understand that West Virginia has been a Democrat stronghold since the Civil War. The flap over Clinton, gave us our first Republican (and first female, period) Congresswoman in the State. And I do recall someone waxing poetic about Kennedys sexual escapades (in an era where the press didn't report such things, yah-da-yah-da etc.).

Now with the other flap about President Kennedy keeping a 19 year old intern for nothing but sex ("couldn't even answer the phone") and the drug use, and the lying about his illnesses, we know why Bill considered him his hero...

Subject: RE: BS: WV Governor = Clinton Clone
From: Ebbie
Date: 14 May 03 - 01:20 PM

Claymore, it will be most amusing to see what comes out when the Bush is out of office. Do you really think he is normal?

Incidentally, years ago before the first Bush was vice president and was running for consideration, there were stories of his womanizing. Someone somewhere shut that down, because I have not read of any such thing since.

Subject: RE: BS: WV Governor = Clinton Clone
From: CarolC
Date: 14 May 03 - 01:40 PM

Now with the other flap about President Kennedy keeping a 19 year old intern for nothing but sex ("couldn't even answer the phone") and the drug use, and the lying about his illnesses, we know why Bill considered him his hero...

So it's ok to talk about Kennedy or Clinton's drug use, but not about Bush Jr's drug use? Seems like whenever someone tries to talk about W's history of drug use, they get accused of all kinds of terrible things. What I'm having trouble with here is double standards. It's either bad or it ain't, whether you're a Democrat or a Republican. If you only hold the other side accountable for bad behavior and gloss over bad behavior on your own side, what right do you have to claim any moral high ground at all?

Subject: RE: BS: WV Governor = Clinton Clone
From: GUEST,Claymore
Date: 14 May 03 - 03:56 PM

Carol, I know you're now out of the DC loop, but the Kennedy story has just hit and appears to be big. Bushes excesses were known years before he ever ran for office. He also never lied about them.

Clinton lied and lied and lied, and some of his worse ones weren't discovered until after he left office.

Kennedy's were mostly hidden, due to the aforementioned liberal media's attachment to him, and are only now coming out after some forty years.

I also suspect that, since Bushes excesses in all areas were freely acknowledged, and his behavior since has been well beyond reproach (he doesn't drink at all since about 1970) etc, I would have to say that due to the incredible amount of lying done by Clinton, and by Kennedy(s), there is no contest in the moral tone contest. And I have a feeling the Nation feels pretty much the same way. They may understand the frailties of human nature, but they also understand being snookered...

Subject: RE: BS: WV Governor = Clinton Clone
From: PoppaGator
Date: 14 May 03 - 04:09 PM

If Bush never lied about his personal shortcomings, he was making an exception to his normal practices.

He shows up for a photo op at a HeadStart center, praising everyone's efforts to "leave no child behind," at the same time his administration is cutting all funding for the Head Start program. He gives loud public lip services to how much we appreciate "our troops" while cutting veterans' benefits to the bone. Ad infinitum.

Just another weasel, not unlike any other politican of any party in any nation.

Subject: RE: BS: WV Governor = Clinton Clone
From: CarolC
Date: 14 May 03 - 04:10 PM

So it's the lying, not the use of drugs and/or sexual misbehavior that's bad?

Subject: RE: BS: WV Governor = Clinton Clone
From: GUEST,sorefingers
Date: 14 May 03 - 04:56 PM

Great crimes are often planned by great criminals...

Abolishing tax on wages and transferring it to property seems like a very smart move if you want to keep stealing the money ...
when you already know how few people will have a job by the time the law gets enacted...

The sex/peeping KenStar etc is a diversion while they do their thing.

Subject: RE: BS: WV Governor = Clinton Clone
From: Bill D
Date: 14 May 03 - 04:57 PM

so...every politician who is doing or HAS done something similar should call up his local paper and confess tomorrow?

How about if they kept their pants zipped but accepted bribes? Or exaggerated their resume's?

SEXUAL stuff (consensual)is between the person and their wife/family, and 'usually' should NOT have any bearing on official duties.

Subject: RE: BS: WV Governor = Clinton Clone
From: GUEST,Claymore
Date: 14 May 03 - 06:04 PM

The "every body does it" routine doesn't wash. Politicians are like salemen, and product manufacturers. There is a level of hype in every product they sell. But not to recognize the venality in Clinton's conduct as FAR surpassing any reasonable level of hype or salesmenship, says more about the enabler than the perpetrator.

Don't you guys get it? He fucked you and every thing you stood for, and walked away, leaving you and and some decent politicians whom I don't happen to agree with, to deal with the consequences. Now the fact that I happen to really like the consequences, should not deter you from finding inside the weakness's within you that he appealed to.

Subject: RE: BS: WV Governor = Clinton Clone
From: CarolC
Date: 14 May 03 - 06:18 PM

So are you saying that lying, and fucking the American public over is bad then, Claymore?

Subject: RE: BS: WV Governor = Clinton Clone
From: GUEST
Date: 14 May 03 - 06:27 PM

(Could be we'll be seeing quite a bit about West Virginia before long. There's nothing like a sexcapade to divert attention from incipient revolution. The newspaper piece below may be the beginning of that revolution. The cut and paste is for those who don't want to go through the invasive sign-up process for the online paper):

...Here is what is coming clear. George W. Bush and his cabal lied to the American people so they could attack another country to seize its oil wealth. Bush has, as Doonesbury and others have pointed out, assumed the mantle of Julius Caesar. He is in the process of ruining the American republic and establishing an American/corporate empire.

A favorite motto at the White House is "Let them hate us, as long as they fear us." Emperor Caligula liked that saying too.

The American people should be clear about two things. History never judges kindly a rich, powerful nation that attacks a small, poor one. The second is that empires — all empires — end up on the ashbin of history.

George W. Bush should be impeached. After that, he should stand beside Saddam Hussein in the dock to be tried for war crimes. First witnesses — though they cannot speak for themselves — should be Marwa, Tabarek, and Safia Abbas.

CHARLESTON GAZETTE

BUSH'S LATEST WAR CRIME

Subject: RE: BS: WV Governor = Clinton Clone
From: Ebbie
Date: 14 May 03 - 10:25 PM

"Clinton lied and lied and lied, and some of his worse ones weren't discovered until after he left office." Claymore, I'm out of the loop too; what are some of his worse ones that were discovered after he left office?


"Don't you guys get it? He fucked you and every thing you stood for, and walked away, leaving you and and some decent politicians whom I don't happen to agree with, to deal with the consequences. " Claymore, for a minute there I thought you were talking about Bush.

Subject: RE: BS: WV Governor = Clinton Clone
From: Bobert
Date: 14 May 03 - 11:45 PM

Well danged, Claymore! No wonder I can't get my road fixed. I wrote the Gov, a few months back but looks like he was too busy with other affairs, so to speak.

Only problem is is that this crap ain't restricted to Democrats. It's everywhere. Your guy, ahhhh, Bush says he "mighta made a few mistakes" but since he's a "Christain"... ahhh, it don't matter since it's between him and God. Hmmmmm? As a Christain my own self, I don't read it that way. But seems there are lots of folks buying Bush's testimonial so I reckon I'll leave it up the the *real* Big Guy to make the judgement. Just seems like a tad on the hypopcritical side to point at a memebers of one of the two Twidle-Dee-Twidle-Dum parties and go, "Hey, look what that guy did!".

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: WV Governor = Clinton Clone
From: John Hardly
Date: 15 May 03 - 11:41 AM

The extent to which I was against our involvement in a military action with Iraq was due in no small part to the kind of rationalization and illogical, immoral thinking evident in this thread.

Sure, I was upset with Clinton's behavior but more so with the American public's reaction to it. I'm not Falwellian in thinking that we got what we deserved when terrorism struck our homeland...

...but I am freshly convinced that we are morally bankrupt beyond having a right to voice (especially militarilly) an opinion on the activities of other countries.

We forfeited that right so that we could keep a charming president in office so as to not upset comfortable economic conditions. Could we be more bankrupt?

The fact that, after the dust has cleared, there is no perceptible difference in your minds between a Clinton who sent out a well-schooled disinformation crew to lie and decieve, and a Bob Livingston who removed himself from consideration as Speaker of the House because he would be standing in judgement of something to closely related to (or at least he was smart enough to know it would be percieved that way) that immorality in which he had also participated, stuns me.

Subject: RE: BS: WV Governor = Clinton Clone
From: CarolC
Date: 15 May 03 - 12:55 PM

If Bob Livingston was the only Republican to ever commit an immoral act, you might have a point there, John Hardly. But that is far from being the case, so maybe it's your own moral bankruptcy that is allowing you to see wickedness only on one side of the political spectrum.

Subject: RE: BS: WV Governor = Clinton Clone
From: John Hardly
Date: 15 May 03 - 01:22 PM

I am seeing wickedness in US. I made no assertion otherwise.

Subject: RE: BS: WV Governor = Clinton Clone
From: GUEST,Claymore
Date: 16 May 03 - 08:47 AM

Actually Carol the Livingston story is more typical of Republicans than you would think.

Guliani; once found out he removed himself from the Senate race

Newt Gingrich - once found out he resigned from the Speakers position, setting the example for Livingston.

So Carol, your examples of Democrats are..........................?

Subject: RE: BS: WV Governor = Clinton Clone
From: CarolC
Date: 16 May 03 - 12:54 PM

The only Democrat that has been mentioned here who was found out while in office was President Clinton. Had he bowed out, he would have acted against the wishes of the majority of his constituency, who knew that the mob action being waged against him by the Republicans was a defacto Coup d'Etat.

None of the Republicans who bowed out did so prior to their misdeeds being exposed to the public. They bowed out because their party told them to. Had integrigy or moral uprightness been an issue for them, A. they wouldn't have done the deeds in the first place, and B. they would have bowed out immediately, rather than waitng to be found out before doing so.

Subject: RE: BS: WV Governor = Clinton Clone
From: CarolC
Date: 16 May 03 - 12:56 PM

Correction: integrity

Subject: RE: BS: WV Governor = Clinton Clone
From: GUEST
Date: 16 May 03 - 01:53 PM

William Bennett. 'Book of Virtues'. $1.4 million gambling debt. 'nuff said.

Subject: RE: BS: WV Governor = Clinton Clone
From: GUEST,Claymore
Date: 16 May 03 - 04:29 PM

Carol, you can't mean what you say... Read your last two sentences with regard to Clinton. Thats about as close as you have ever come to calling Clinton a venal bag of puss... And while we may never know how much the party put pressure on Newt and Rudy, Livingston announced his infidelity and his resignation in the same speech, before anyone knew of it.

But I love your last two sentences (and am glad the Republicans would push out two men from the third most powerful position in the Nation, over moral indiscretions...) I gives me faith that someone cares...

Subject: RE: BS: WV Governor = Clinton Clone
From: TIA
Date: 16 May 03 - 04:45 PM

"Republicans would push out two men from the third most powerful position in the Nation, over moral indiscretions..."

Nope. The Repubs didn't push them out for moral indiscretions. They pushed 'em out to avoid bad PR (even they could see the astounding hypocrisy). In at least Newt's case, the indiscretions went back to the mid 1970's, and the push-out didn't happen 'til 20 years later (when the media spotlight hit 'em). All about morals indeed.

Subject: RE: BS: WV Governor = Clinton Clone
From: CarolC
Date: 16 May 03 - 07:08 PM

Carol, you can't mean what you say... Read your last two sentences with regard to Clinton. Thats about as close as you have ever come to calling Clinton a venal bag of puss.

Hardly. And neither would I call GW Bush a venal bag of puss, even though I have proof that he is a liar. I just don't have the need to be as venomous as you when talking about politicians I disagree with. But you know as well as I do that I have said many times that I have lost respect for Clinton because of a lie he promoted. But it's not a lie about his sex life, and I didn't find out about it until after he left office.

But I love your last two sentences (and am glad the Republicans would push out two men from the third most powerful position in the Nation, over moral indiscretions...) I gives me faith that someone cares...

What TIA said. The Republicans don't, and never did care about their own people committing acts of questionable morality. All they care about is whether or not the public perception will be effected in a negative way if it gets out. Hell, they don't even really care what the Democrats do in their personal lives except to the extent that they can use it as a weapon.

To me, one of the most immoral things a politician can do is to use his or her office for personal gain at the expense of the voters. That's something that both sides are quite guilty of, and that isn't going to change until we get the soft money out of the election process.

Oh, yeah... that, and using the Homeland Security Act to track down state legislators, which is an internal issue and not what the HSA is supposed to empower people to do, and is an inexcusable abuse of power. Now, any politician who endorses an action like that one, I might consider calling a "venal bag of puss".

Subject: RE: BS: WV Governor = Clinton Clone
From: EBarnacle1
Date: 17 May 03 - 10:03 AM

While hardly a Republican apologist, I find it interesting that the Clinton/Lewinsky scandal did not surface until Starr spread his net far beyond his official purview. Most of the others came out in the curse [sic] of "normal business." Yes, Clinton's behavior on this issue was reprehensible. The goal of the persecution, though, was an effort to force him to resign or be impeached over anything that could be used as a lever.

Kennedy's infidelities were well known. The fact that they have surfaced again is probably an artifact of the start of the electoral season--"See, all them Democrats are secretly screwing everyone." There is probably an element of envy in addition to tar in all that publicity.

Subject: RE: BS: WV Governor = Clinton Clone
From: GUEST
Date: 17 May 03 - 10:22 AM

The goal was to destroy the office of the independent prosecutor. Ken Starr was the most hated man in America for months running. His office was abolished, thus paving the way for the blatantly unconstitutional and criminal behavior of the next and all future administrations. America cared more about a penis than a constitution.

Subject: RE: BS: WV Governor = Clinton Clone
From: Bobert
Date: 17 May 03 - 10:49 AM

Good point, Carol. Here we are in the midst of a serious recession. We aren't growing an economy to keepm up[ with its own needs. Our educational system is a mess and getting messier with rich folks wanting to bleed it with "vouchers". Our inner cities are a mess and getting messier. Our forieng policy is in chaos with much agruement within the administration. And Bush thinks that a big old cash grab fir his friends is what America needs. Hmmmmmm?

And now we hear the the Department of Homeland Security Act provides for the spying on state legislators? Yeah, like I'm real scared of my local guy, Dale Manuel, strapping' on explosives and walking into the Martinsburg Cinema! Give me a break! This is obviously another ploy toward forced conformity, which does not bode well for the success of democracy.

And what about the "pussy-dick" (excuse my French) mentality of the American people. Boy, oh, boy! We've become a tabloid driven nation of uninformed sheep. This also does not bode well for democracy. But, hey, those folks in control consider democracy to be a nuissance, anyway, don't they?

Beam me up...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: WV Governor = Clinton Clone
From: Janie
Date: 17 May 03 - 10:34 PM

Oh, Bobert,

I have such fear that you are right:-{

Janie