BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words

Subject: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: Mr Happy
Date: 26 Jun 03 - 05:42 AM

I've lately noticed a number of misspellings & mispronounciations of frequently used words.

noone:meaning nobody- could be pronounced 'noon'.
misled:meaning deceived- could be pronounced 'mizzled'.
moped: meaning small motorbike or moved gloomily.

anyone spotted any others?

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: GUEST,Dáithí
Date: 26 Jun 03 - 05:46 AM

How about your own "mispronounciation"? It's "mispronunciation"....
8¬)

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: AllisonA(Animaterra)
Date: 26 Jun 03 - 06:05 AM

alright

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: Mr Happy
Date: 26 Jun 03 - 06:07 AM

ayup-touche-well i wasn't sure! 8-)

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: Noreen
Date: 26 Jun 03 - 06:52 AM

Definitely! (Aaaaargh)

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: gnu
Date: 26 Jun 03 - 07:04 AM

Volumptuous... and she was.

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: GUEST,KB
Date: 26 Jun 03 - 07:10 AM

can you be more pacific about that?

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Jun 03 - 07:40 AM

Nuclear, particularly, arctic, genealogy

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: GUEST,Sooz(at work)
Date: 26 Jun 03 - 08:10 AM

My current one is focussed (or is it focused?)Apparently both are correct. I've just finished collating school reports with an equal number of each spelling and I think they look dreadful!

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Jun 03 - 08:46 AM

I hate it when sports commentators say "subtitute", "sikth" and "Alec" (Ferguson) instead of substitute, sixth and Alex - and they do it all the time! Why do commentators seem to find it so much of an effort to pronounce all the s's in a word?

Bagpuss

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 26 Jun 03 - 09:15 AM

Misspelt.

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: nickp
Date: 26 Jun 03 - 09:31 AM

February/Febrary

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: Peter T.
Date: 26 Jun 03 - 10:05 AM

Tough ones that virtually everyone is now getting wrong:

"principal" and "principle"

"effect" and "affect"

"its" and "it's"

yours,

Peter T.

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: Sorcha
Date: 26 Jun 03 - 10:16 AM

Well, for one thing, two Mr. Happy's examples are either two words or hyphenated words; no one and mo-ped. Solves that confusion. Cinnamon, aluminum, envelope,inundate (indunate), chimney (chimbley),often (ofTen. But, the one that drives me batshit is 'irregardless'. Not a word.

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: kendall
Date: 26 Jun 03 - 10:21 AM

irregardless also sends me over the top. Our own Senator Snowe once used that non word, and I chastised her severely.

Prostate
Orangutan

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 26 Jun 03 - 10:24 AM

For February the most common mistake here is Febuary, then there's umbarella, and the folks who get their books from the libary. But what really gets on my tits is people who answer a question with the one word, "absolutely". ABSOLUTELY WHAT?? It can be either affirmative or negative, it is an adverb, and usually qualifies a verb, on its own it has no validity.
RANT RANT....Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: Noreen
Date: 26 Jun 03 - 10:24 AM

Peter T reminds me of a usage which I thought amusing when I first saw it, but now appears to be generally accepted :0(
on private hire taxi cabs: Advanced bookings only.

Surely it should be advance bookings = bookings in advance?

Also, on public fire doors: these doors are alarmed
when they look perfectly calm to me.

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: Giac
Date: 26 Jun 03 - 11:17 AM

TV sports persons annoy me daily with this one:

Ath-a-letic. As in, sports fans and athaletic supporters.

A local one which is kinda funny the first zillion times you hear it:

fidgiderry

Got it yet? Whatever you were thinking, likely that's not it. It's refrigerator. Seriously. It is a corruption of the brand name, Frigidaire. That first R apparently is impossible to see, but is made up for by pronouncing the E. Written spellings, too, are quite exotic, including "frigerotor".

Ain't langidge grate?

Mary

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: Alba
Date: 26 Jun 03 - 11:19 AM

My Grandmother, bless her, (who frequently mixed up words) was telling us of a friend who had just had her Baby 6 weeks prematurely.
She informed me that the Woman was fine but the baby was in an incinerator until it got it got a bit stronger!....we were all laughing so much we couldn't tell her the word was incubator   *BG*
A:>)

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: Bill D
Date: 26 Jun 03 - 11:59 AM

re: 'fidgiderry'...my cousin said 'batumfritter'..but HE was only 5, and learned better. Some adults do not care to learn.

I do grate (grit?) my teeth over randomly scattered apostrophes, with little regard whether they are used as plurals, possessives or contractions.

and I have totally given up on educating the masses on the difference between 'your' and 'you're' or 'there', 'their' and 'they're'

I also remember trying (with mixed results)to correct some young lads who said things like "He was standing in the filled (field), looking in the mere (mirror)"

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: the lemonade lady
Date: 26 Jun 03 - 12:05 PM

Carboard : cardboard

And the way weather men/women say 'uh' before their words...you listen when they're doing the forecast on TV. They do it on Blue Peter too.I know it's the same as saying 'er' but it bugs me.

Sal

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Jun 03 - 12:14 PM

We've got parakeet flooring!

From www.isms.org.uk Hilaryous (sic) stuff...

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: M.Ted
Date: 26 Jun 03 - 12:18 PM

"Irregardless" is a real word, irregardless of whether it is a very good word. As per The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language:

>Usage Note: Irregardless is a word that many mistakenly believe to be correct usage in formal >style, when in fact it is used chiefly in nonstandard speech or casual writing. Coined in the United >States in the early 20th century, it has met with a blizzard of condemnation for being an improper >yoking of irrespective and regardless and for the logical absurdity of combining the negative ir- >prefix and -less suffix in a single term. Although one might reasonably argue that it is no different >from words with redundant affixes like debone and unravel, it has been considered a blunder for >decades and will probably continue to be so.

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: Ebbie
Date: 26 Jun 03 - 12:43 PM

Doesn't bug me, exactly, but I'm aware of it when people say: eightth. As in eight-thuh. There is only one th in the word.

I know a woman who for "usual" (yoozhual) says "yoozyooall". As anyone else ever heard the word pronounced like that? (English is not a second language for her; she's a native born American.)

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: Bill D
Date: 26 Jun 03 - 01:04 PM

oh,...there are still folks who will argue violently about 'tomato' and 'salmon'...

and, although a tree of the Pacific Northwest is called simply 'Madrone' in most botany texts, it is sometimes called "Madrona", and I know one friend who will not listen to me discuss the tree and its wood if I spell it 'wrong' *grin*

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 26 Jun 03 - 01:16 PM

The companion to doors that are alarmed is traffic that goes in for diversions.

Somhow people never seem to follow the instruction they put up in clothes shops, where it says "menswear" and "womenswear"

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: Noreen
Date: 26 Jun 03 - 01:25 PM

Yep, that's the usual way to prounce it in England, Ebbie :0)

Barb wire for barbed wire.

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: Noreen
Date: 26 Jun 03 - 01:35 PM

Dave the Gnome's link above didn't work- try this one with the http:
http://www.mudcat.org/www.isms.org.uk

looks fun :0)

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: Mrs.Duck
Date: 26 Jun 03 - 01:45 PM

Buggered if I do McGrath! And of course Sorcha I would spell aluminum aluminium! The one that confounds me is practice/practise which depending on which side of the atlantic you fall are reversed - all very confusing.

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: Sorcha
Date: 26 Jun 03 - 02:07 PM

Excuse me, that should be 'bob wahr', not barbed wire.

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 26 Jun 03 - 02:22 PM

One annoyance which springs from the USA is the compounding of perfectly good words into meaningles twaddle. For example :-
A burglar burgles your house. You as the victim (and your house) have been burgled. You have NOT been burglarised
what the burglar has done is NOT burglarisation.
In the world of biology your liver is an organ which removes toxins from your bloodstream. There are two verbs which describe the process - to detoxify or to detoxicate.The process is called detoxication NOT detoxification.
Quack!
GtD.

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: DonMeixner
Date: 26 Jun 03 - 03:17 PM

Just about every word I type.   I spell just fine, I type just awful.

Don

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: TIA
Date: 26 Jun 03 - 03:23 PM

If you are nauseous, you make people ill.
If you are nauseated, you feel ill.

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 26 Jun 03 - 03:30 PM

Dr Johnson was once in a carriage, and a fellow passenger protested, saying "Yoiu smell, Sir"; to which the good doctor replied correcting his English - "No, Sir - you smell. I stink."

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 26 Jun 03 - 03:43 PM

Often found cavalry spelled and mispronounced calvary in the south.

Echoing M Ted on irregardless- It entered the American Dialectical Dictionary in 1912. Both Merriam Webster's and the OED list it with notes. The OED says it probably is a blend of irrespective and regardless. Webster's says "Use regardless instead," but the OED says it is "in humorous usage."

Yep, bob wahr seems to be the standard western and southern pronunciation of barbed wire. I have a catalogue in which it is listed as bob wire and it appears as bob-wire in the Oxford Dictionary (1929, J. Frank Dobie).

Geoff the Duck, the OED has listed burglarize for many years. (in print 1871, American origin). Burgle is a fairly recent English word, first in print in 1872 in a novel by Collins. Hence I would say that burglarize has priority, wouldn't you?.

How come so many English use the incorrect suffix -ise (recognise, etc.) instead of the correct -ize (Oxford English Dictionary usage). Is it just rebellion against the upper classes and Oxbridge?? (Withdrawing to an impregnable- I hope- redoubt).
Is there a re-doubt? Haven't looked that one up yet but I hope not.

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: kendall
Date: 26 Jun 03 - 04:05 PM

I heard a reporter say that he was with the CALVARY. Journalism is in sad shape when the reporters cant spell.

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: Noreen
Date: 26 Jun 03 - 04:43 PM

GUEST,Q: the accepted spelling in UK English is recognise, while in the US it is recognize (and similarly with other words with the same suffix).

Spelling with a z is becoming more common in the UK as US influences increse, but I much prefer the ise spelling.


Another one where the US spelling is taking over here is jewelry rather than jewellery- I saw the US spelling on a notice in my local college recently :0( no doubt thanks to Microsoft spellcheckers...

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 26 Jun 03 - 04:49 PM

I note one above that doesn't seem to bug many people, but the "as" in "as per" is redundant. "Per The American Heritage Dictionary" would have been sufficient.

Probably the most ubiquitous nonsense usage is the "times more" and "times less" construction. If you do something once more, you've done it twice. If you do it "two times more" you've done it "thrice," or three times. Two times two is four, but two times more than two is six.

Even worse is the "hundred times less" - which of course, in most cases should be "hundred times fewer" for any but total illiterates, but once less means it's all gone, so anything more than "one times" less (or "one times" smaller) apparently means the person is operating in some plane of reality where "multiply absent" means something to them. To me, it means the user is illiterate, or is in advertising, where lying is acceptable and expected.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: Alba
Date: 26 Jun 03 - 04:54 PM

Ooops I got the meaning of this thread all wrong with my previous post:>o Sorry Folks!
A

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 26 Jun 03 - 05:25 PM

Noreen, the Oxford English Dictionary spellings are mostly -ize. This has been standard since the start of their program in 1857.
My question stands.

Quoting from the OED:
1. Words that have come down from Greek, or adopted from Greek, or formed on Greek elements. Examples- canonize, christianize, crystallize, etc. etc.
2. Words formed on Latin adjectives and substantives- civilize, colonize, brutalize, nationalize, etc. etc.
3. Words from later sources- jeopardize, womanize, cricketize, etc. etc.
4. Words formed from ethnic adjectives- Anglicize, Americanize, Latinize, etc.
5. Words formed on names of persons- Calvinize, Bowdlerize, macadamize, Merry-Andrewise, ec. etc.
6. Words from the names of substances and processes- oxidize, carbonize, hydrogenize, etc, etc.
Colonization, civilization and other nouns that fit the above categories.

So- changing a line from the comedy of Eliza Doolittle and her mentor, Why can't the English- learn to spell?

The suffix -ise.
"A frequent spelling of -IZE, suffix forming vbs, which see."
Used with abstract substantives of quality, state, function.

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 26 Jun 03 - 06:06 PM

John, I agree. One hundred and ten percent.
This one has always bugged me.

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: Mr Red
Date: 26 Jun 03 - 06:14 PM

Some folks make a feast a-mispronouncing coteneaster
But when spoke any faster it comes out cotoneaster.

©Mr Red 1982

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: GUEST,Bill D (in a different browser with no cooki
Date: 26 Jun 03 - 06:23 PM

re: 'aluminium' and 'jewellery' etc...it seems as if when UK-US spellings are compared, it is 'almost' always the case that the UK uses longer versions... I suppose there is something in US culture that eschews what it considers unnecessary extra letters...not a conscious thing, but just a need to be 'compact'

as to 's' vs. 'z', that is largely a matter of pronunciation...I (we) say the hard "Z" mostly, and it sort of makes sense to spell it that way.

Now...a couple that REALLY bother me... "orientate" and "importate". Used mostly in the past tense.."orientating" and "importating" ...do people listen to themselves? And what do they think when someone simply says 'orienting' and 'importing'?

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 26 Jun 03 - 06:44 PM

Orientate and orientation have been with us since the 1830's at least.
Orientate seems to have first appeared in ecclestical writings- orientate the church, etc. Both orient and orientation are accepted by the OED.

Importatable goes back to the 14th century and Chaucer. Accepted in all its senses by the OED.

There are both grammatical reasons for preferences on aluminium and aluminum, as well as a decision by the American Chemical Standards Soc. to use aluminum. This has been discussed before, but I have forgotten the details.

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 26 Jun 03 - 07:16 PM

Dreamed and dreamt.

Spelled and spelt.

Can anyone think of any other pairs like that, where there are two words meaning the same and with the same origin, but spelled/spelt differently and pronounced differently - and both in current use.

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: Snuffy
Date: 26 Jun 03 - 07:30 PM

burned/burnt

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 26 Jun 03 - 07:37 PM

I bother to complain about mispronunciations only when they are made by people who are paid to speak, for example TV announcers, political pundits, talk-show hosts, and the like.

For example: pundit. I've been hearing it a lot lately as if it had another 'n': pundint.

Where did people get the idea that the plural of 'process' is pronounced 'process-ease'? You hear about legal process-ease, diplomatic process-ease, and so on.

And I've been hearing 'antibiotic' pronounced 'antibeeotic'. Nonsense. It should be pronounced with a long i as in biology, biography, etc.

Since the medical professions switched to the metric system, doctors and nurses have been pronouncing 'centimeter' in the French way, 'sawntimeter'. That's silly. Maybe the French invented it, but it's an English word now, so pronounce it consistently with cent, century, centennial, percentage, etc.

These are Americans I'm talking about, of course.

Regarding the 'smell/stink' controversy: Try saying, "A rose by any other name would stink as sweet."

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: kendall
Date: 26 Jun 03 - 07:37 PM

So, why do we care?

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Jun 03 - 07:40 PM

George Dubyah is really worried about the "nucelar" capabilities of rogue states, isn't he?

He must be a little treasure trove of pismronunciations (something that the great U.K. comedian, Ronnie Barker, once built a skit around). . . (Has anyone noticed that "that" seems to be falling out of use, by the way?)

How Dubyahisms many can you add, 'catters?

Gray D

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Jun 03 - 07:44 PM

Wait a minute . . .how come I'm a bl**dy GUEST all of a sudden, I've been here for ages?

Help!!!

Joe Offer, what have I done wrong?

Was it something I typed?

Gray D

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 26 Jun 03 - 07:47 PM

learned, learnt

Jewellery-jewelry is an odd one, inspiring the OED editors to a mini-essay. "In commercial use commonly spelt jewellery; the form jewelry is more rhetorical and poetic and unassociated with the jeweller. But the pronunciation with three sylables is usual even with the former spelling." I would agree that "jewelry" has pretty well taken over in North America.

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: Gray D
Date: 26 Jun 03 - 08:09 PM

Phew/few, no/know, its/it's okay/ok I/eye have/halve reset/rested my/m'eye cookie/biscuit

Gray D

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: DonMeixner
Date: 26 Jun 03 - 11:35 PM

I have spelled and seen jewelry spelled many ways and I thing all are acceptable as long as archaic usage is acceptable. Here are some thoughts.

Jewelry- The bracelets I make are Jewelry
Jeweller - A person who makes Jewelry
Jewellery - The place where a Jeweller make Jewelry.

Don

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: DMcG
Date: 27 Jun 03 - 09:30 AM

One of the banners over the aisles in my local supermarket says there are 'Air freshners' nearby. It has been there for years now and irritates me every time I see it. The managers claim no-one else has noticed it. Then they refurbished the next nearest supermarket and made spelling mistakes in its labels as well.

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 27 Jun 03 - 09:39 AM

McGrath:
Dreamed/dreamt
Dwelled/dwelt
Kneeled/knelt
Leaned/leant
Leaped/leapt
Learned/learnt
Smelled/smelt
Spelled/spelt
Spilled/spilt
Spoiled/spoilt

(I found them on this list of irregular verbs.)

In all the above cases, modern American usage favors the -ed versions. The -t versions would seem archaic.

Yet we hang onto built, dealt, felt, lent, meant, spent. I don't think I've ever heard builded, dealed, etc., in ordinary speech, but isn't builded in the King James Bible?

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: GUEST,Bagpuss
Date: 27 Jun 03 - 09:51 AM

Apparently the irregular versions of the word are earlier and tend to be replaced by the regular version as time goes on. The more common or frequently used a word is, the more likely it is to retain the irregular form for longer. Rarely used words succumb to the regular form earlier in our language history. Words in which both forms are used are in the middle of this transition process.

That's as far as i remember from my English Language course at university, anyway.

Bagpuss

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: Gareth
Date: 27 Jun 03 - 11:13 AM

"Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch"

Gareth

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 27 Jun 03 - 12:53 PM

If your feet small, and your nose runs, you're probably upside down!!
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 27 Jun 03 - 01:43 PM

Dreamed-dreamt etc. Been reading a number of current UK novels recently, and the -t ending seems to be alive and well in the UK although it has mostly been lost in American usage.

Amusing how many people ignore dictionaries and English language teaching in schools and follow their own bent- see a number of the postings above. This contributes to the changes with time in the language, but adds to debate and to the proliferation of threads like this one.

This is repetitious, but I still would like to hear an explanation of the reasons behind the -ize, -ise schism in the UK. The better (or should I be politically correct and say more expensive) private (English public) schools in England and the Oxford-Cambridge publications all demand -ize, while most people use -ise.
Along with that, why did the Americans keep the older, established -ize while most Britons shifted to -ise?

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: John Hardly
Date: 27 Jun 03 - 01:48 PM

I screw up "Cincinnati" and "necessary" regularly. The "I" before "E" except after "C" or when sounding like "A" as in neighbor and weigh, and its exceptions cause many mis-spelled words.

As long as the pedants are out and biting like bass on a spring pond -- whatever happened to "lit"? Was it ever NOT the past of "light"? Is "lit" not a word? or is it one of those "Lay/lain" thingys where lit is the past of the activity of, of rinstance, sanding on a tree branch as a bird might, while "lighted" is what I might have done to a light bulb?

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 27 Jun 03 - 02:51 PM

Guest Q; Jim Dixon:
Unless US dictionaries are different, learned & learnt are not synoymous.
Learnt: (lurnt) is usually reserved for the past participle of the verb 'to learn', i.e. "he learnt his two times table"
Learned: (lurn'id) is the adjective to describe someone who has learning. "The learned gentleman taught his pupils English until they had learnt enough"

Nigel

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: wysiwyg
Date: 27 Jun 03 - 03:13 PM

I believe PLEASE and THANK YOU are commonly confused with GIMMEE and IT'S ABOUT TIME.

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: GUEST,Jim Dixon
Date: 27 Jun 03 - 03:15 PM

American dictionaries ARE different (but I don't have one to examine right now). Americans would say "He learned his two-times table." As a verb, "learned" would be pronounced as one syllable, to rhyme with "turned." We also have "learned" pronounced as two syllables when it's an adjective, as in "the learned gentleman." But that's not a usage we hear often.

American English has had its own standard since Noah Webster published his first dictionary. Nowadays "Webster's" is almost a synonym for dictionary. The term "Webster's" is no longer a protected trademark, so anyone can publish a dictionary and call it "Webster's." Many cheap and poor dictionaries are called that. "Merriam-Webster," however is a trademarked name, and the name of our best publisher of dictionaries, in my opinion.

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: beadie
Date: 27 Jun 03 - 03:29 PM

The adjective "learned" seems restricted to the lofty discourse of lawyers and politicians, although I have heard it used as a descriptive for "learned" professions (theology, medicine and law).

. . . and the learned gentleman can stick THAT in his Funk and Wagnalls !

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: Mary in Kentucky
Date: 27 Jun 03 - 03:31 PM

I'm with Dave on this one. It's one thing to make a mistake, but to have your mistake on a public sign, have it pointed out to you, and then to do nothing about it!

We have a Miniture Soldier Museum in town. Also a business sign which says Wensday.

Of course all MY mistakes are just typos. I really do know better.

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 27 Jun 03 - 04:00 PM

In our language it's difficult to describe differences in pronunciation because we don't have a symbol for schwa even though it's the commonest of English vowels.

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 27 Jun 03 - 04:07 PM

Merriam Webster-
"learnt Chiefly Brit past and past part of learn."
OED-
Learn v pa t and pple learned, learnt.
In other words both are acceptable to the OED if not to Nigel and his teachers (I think I was taught the same as you, Nigel, but we end up absorbing the teacher's preferences).

Learnéd in the sense of erudite.
Some Americans speak of a knowledgeable man as learnéd, using the two-syllable pronunciation used in the OED, but Webster's accepts both, reflecting the American tendency to abandon the accented -ed ending.

Yep, still biting. John H, I know that in talk I probably mess up light-lit- lighted. Webster's accepts lit or lighted as past for the verb. Lighted is often seen in 19th C. writing. In the US Navy they have the phrase "the smoking lamp is lit."
Lit often used with up- her face lit up. Lit (up) = drunk. Lit as short for literature.
Webster's also accepts both "the bird lit on the branch or lighted on the branch. I know some birders who prefer lighted but I think most of us say lit.
The OED also accepts both. In the US I think most of us turn on or turn off a light bulb or lamp and avoid the l-word. Or we could outen the light as our Pennsy. Dutch friends are supposed to say.
Hmmm, bite, bit, bitten (and bit)- why not light, lit, litten?

Lighten up?

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 27 Jun 03 - 06:15 PM

WYS reminds of the people who say "excuse me for ..." when they're about to do something for which there is no excuse (and none offered). "Forgive me" would be much more appropriate - and might be possible when we're in a good mood.

A "cartoon" carried locally, Non-Sequitor, runs frequent "What he/she said"//"What she/he heard" and "What they mean"/"when they say" bits that tweak on numerous foibles. Unfortuately, most of my "collected favorites" are mainly "sight gags" that don't translate well without the pictures.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: GUEST,Jim Dixon
Date: 27 Jun 03 - 06:28 PM

Restaurant menus are a common source of misspellings. I have seen omlet and omlette countless times. My local college grille serves Monte Crisco sandwiches. They also have a weird way of spelling focaccia but I can't remember it.

Advertising copywriters feel free to abuse the language. Usually, they know exactly what they're doing, but they will gladly break any grammar or spelling rule if they think the resulting text will appeal to their target audience.

Case in point: the lowly word 'n'. I mean the contracted form of and as in rock 'n' roll. Copywriters love this word because it has a nice slangy informal feel to it. It conveys that their product is effortless to use, just like grammar and orthography. They have invented brand names like Clairol Nice 'n Easy® haircolor (spelling haircolor as one word) or SPRAY 'n WASH® laundry stain remover. Once you start noticing 'n', you see it everywhere.

The consensus among advertisers is that one apostrophe is sufficient; two is too much effort. Trouble is, they can't agree on whether the apostrophe should go before or after the n.

I wish I could think of more examples. I know they're out there, but Google ignores punctuation, apparently.

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: Bill D
Date: 27 Jun 03 - 06:56 PM

well, it is work to find exactly the ones you want, but Non Sequitur is on the web, and a treasure it is!

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 27 Jun 03 - 07:51 PM

Non Sequitur (and many others) available Daily from the Washington Post. Also a selection of the political cartoons from several papers.

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: jimmyt
Date: 27 Jun 03 - 10:29 PM

I have a hard time with people using the word preventive pronouncing it as preventative. The extra syllable is not there.

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 27 Jun 03 - 11:20 PM

The OED considers preventive preferable, but preventative has been around since the 17th century. The syllable is available if you prefer to stretch the word out. Merriam Webster's lists it without comment.

Since both are 17th century in print, neither is prevenient.

The OED did not admit omelet (omelette) to their Dictionary until 1987. The word first appeared in English in 1846 in the "Jewish Manual, or Practical Information on Jewish and Modern Cooking." Acton, in 1846, in his "Modern Cookery," introduced the "omlette(sic) aux fines herbes" to English cooks.
All examples from the OED.

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 27 Jun 03 - 11:32 PM

Jimmyt: The Institute for Preventative Sports Medicine thinks preventative is a good word, and so does the Center for Preventative Health.
The Guardian used preventative in a headline, and BBC News says, "Paddy Ashdown called for strong preventative action." If you want to argue with those guys, go ahead.

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 27 Jun 03 - 11:44 PM

I goofed on omelet- Skipped over the entry; it was in earlier editions of the OED. 1611- defined as a pancake of eggs. Spelling varied, everything from amulet to omlet.

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: catspaw49
Date: 28 Jun 03 - 12:05 AM

I think that spelling fart with a ph (phart) makes it less offensive.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Jun 03 - 03:17 AM

as a linguist and someone who cant speeell this thred haz faseneated mee. Just showz u how langwidge continyooz ta chaynj it iz ownli bekoz we rite thet we av theez problems - are mispronunciations not just colloquial (or is it coloquial or kollokwial?) dialect?

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 28 Jun 03 - 08:42 PM

Complimentary/complementary seem to be just about mutually interchangeable now, and nearly always wrong! As is seperate, acomodate, comunicate, etc.

As for pronunciation, nearly everyone who is not French says Deja vous (pron.voo) meaning already you, instead of Deja vu (pron. more like view)meaning already seen, which is what it really means.

I like the medical ones, e.g. prostrate intead of prostate, or the lady who told us she had "ballistic kidneys" when she had the polycystic variety! But nearly every newscaster talks about cervical with emphasis on the first syllable, whereas most medics say cerveyecal, with emphasis on the second.

As for the apostrophe's everywhere these day's!

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 28 Jun 03 - 08:47 PM

Oh and I forgot the Scottish ones, e.g. definaytely (long A!) and sangwich, badmington (never had a g in them when I went to school!)
And in some areas they say "went" where the usual would be "gone", e.g. "he's went to Aberdeen"

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: GUEST,Webster
Date: 28 Jun 03 - 09:23 PM

A "catalytic converter" is not a "cadillac Converter"

In the Southern USA, people "warsh" their clothes, "rinch" and "bresh" their hair. They drink "alkyhol",which they buy when they have some "extree" money.

"Weird" is my failing...mostly, I spell it "wierd", if I do not pay attention.

Webster

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 28 Jun 03 - 10:20 PM

Warsh is widespread in the western US. I have heard it in the UK- perhaps it came from there originally. Anyone in the UK know if it comes from one region or another? I have been told it is Irish.

Asphalt- What is the source of ash-felt? I think this was asked before, but I can't remember if an answer was found. In Canada, very few people correctly pronounce it as-falt.
Just remember the ie rule- i before e except after c and in certain weird words.

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: GUEST,pdc
Date: 29 Jun 03 - 02:14 AM

My two cents' worth: the one I cannot abide, and unfortunately it is becoming ubiquitous is "There is, or there's" for "There are." It's in newspapers, magazines, on news broadcasts -- all the places one would expect or hope to find correct language.

"There's lots more where this came from, hon!"
"There is no excuses for this kind of behaviour."

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 29 Jun 03 - 02:44 PM

Of course, there is always Polari which could be described as "the queens' English"

Nigel

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 29 Jun 03 - 10:59 PM

Well, I'm not going to get into regional pronunciations--I think they add color to conversation. As in Brooklyn, where departing travelers (travellers to the UK educated) are wished "Bon Verge!", or folks in Kentucky that comb their har and put on their paints.

What I hate is "Normalcy"--a gaffe from a previous illiterate President that has come to be cast in stone (whatever that means.)

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 29 Jun 03 - 11:41 PM

Normality is accepted in Merriam Webster's but No normalcy.

Surprisingly, the OED has it. "Now frequent (esp. in U.S.), used in the sense of normality." 1920, W. G. Harding in F. L. Allen, "Only Yesterday," (1931), "America's present need is not heroics but healing; not nostrums but normalcy; not revolution but restoration."

The British author G. K. Chesterton took it up in 1932- "Life in a modern town, whatever else it is, is not Normalcy." John o' London's (1939) "That insistent normalcy of men who cannot permit themselves to be thrown off balance." Even the New Statesman has used it.

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: GUEST,Crazy Eddie
Date: 30 Jun 03 - 07:20 AM

'Spaw, You say the "I think that spelling fart with a ph (phart) makes it less offensive"

Now I hate to contradict a Mudcat Icon, but after all "What's in a name? A rose by any other name would smell as sweet."

So I don't think spelling your farts with a ph will make them less offensive!

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 30 Jun 03 - 06:33 PM

Old Warren Gamaliel Harding (who also was involved in his share of financial scandals) also coined "generalcy". But at least he wasn't misunderestimated.

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: Amos
Date: 30 Jun 03 - 06:37 PM

Jim Dixon:

A generation before Johnson made that retort the word "stink" meant much what "smell" in the sense of producing an odor does today, and smell meant primarily to perceive that odor. But since Shakespeare was writing at the same time, roughly, it was already a losing battle, IIRC.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: Mr Happy
Date: 30 Jun 03 - 06:42 PM

re: lying in adverts- what does it mean?

Razor blades being 'twice as thin'?

do they mean half as thick as ......?

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: jimmyt
Date: 30 Jun 03 - 09:13 PM

to Jim Dixon regarding Preventative/preventative So I see when I do a search on google, but it also asks "did you mean PREVENTIVE?" COuld it be a usage that is predominately English/preventative, American /preventive? If you do a search for Preventive, you will also find lots od organizations calling themselves Preventive etc. I was taught this was incorect or colloquial, and I just guess I accepted the information as fact and should have been more questioning, but at least in America, it seems to be the more accepted usage. will do more digging on it

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 30 Jun 03 - 10:48 PM

The American (Merriam Webster) and Oxford English Dictionary entries for preventive and preventative were mentioned in my post of 27 Jun 03, indicating both have been in use since at least the 17th century.
Since these are the two major dictionaries for their respective countries, their acceptance of both makes the question a matter of preference. The OED says preventive is "preferable," but Webster's Collegiate makes no comment. Certainly "preventive" is more common at this time.

Preventative is often used by medical men with reference to a preventative drug or preventative treatment, but others will leave out the extra syllable. I doubt that there is a clear preference among medical practitioners at this time.

Examples, preventative:
Earl Orrery, 1676- "All preventative thoughts of hostility were silenced."
De Foe (on the Plague), 1722- "To send a Preventative Medicine to the Father of the child."
J. Pratt, 1775- "Without meeting any new preventative in my way..."
Pennant (medical), 1774- "The practice of Bleeding- as a preventative against the pleurisy."
Dylan Thomas, 1934- "Do you believe in preventatives (referring to contraception).

Examples, preventive:
Milton (Church directives), 1641- "A preventive fear in case the omitting of this duty..."
Fuller, 1639- "A preventive war..."
Sir T. Browne (medical ref.), 1646- "Physicke is either curative or preventive."
Godfrey (medical ref.), 1676- " Yet would I not have you think there are no Preventives, or means to preserve Health for the future."
New Statesman, 1963- "Released from preventive detention..."

And many more examples of each, with many nuances of meaning.

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: JennieG
Date: 01 Jul 03 - 08:15 PM

A favourite here from people who should know better is Austrayia instead of Australia...even politicians have been guilty of this one. Why should they represent a country they can't even pronounce?
And Spaw - if we spell phart to make the action less offensive (notice I didn't mention the smell) does this mean we can now spell the 'f' word 'phuque'? As in 'phuque housework'?
Cheers
JennieG off to phuque some housework...I am on holidays and I am not sweeping the floor!

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 01 Jul 03 - 09:26 PM

Everyone knows it is Os-tryl-yah.
Sorry, but I listened to an old LP by Bob Sharp today.

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: GUEST,Denise:^), house-sitting
Date: 02 Jul 03 - 03:38 AM

Wow--a *major* pet peeve of mine!
Some of these have been mentioned, but here goes:
Jag-wire (Jaguar)
nuc-you-ler (nuclear)
reg-ill-er (regular)
"Five cent your change." (Instead of 'cents.')
Sure-bert (sherbet--"Sure, Bert!" is what Ernie says on Sesame Street--NOT a frozen dessert!)
I was just at a concert where the performer announced, at least three times, that he was still "calm and COLLECTIVE..."
Ah-capello (a capella)
There's a shoe store 'round here that they call "DSW Shoe Warehouse." Aaaargghhhh! The 'SW' part *stands for* shoe warehouse--so, they're now calling it "Desgner Shoe Warehouse Shoe Warehouse..."

In writing:
"Please pay Frist" (first)
"Quite, please." (quiet)
"Tomato's for sale" (or anything else that doesn't own something using the posessive 's...as in, a mailbox that announces, "The Quimby's...")

I'm sure more will jump out to torment me, but that's enough for now...

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: An Pluiméir Ceolmhar
Date: 02 Jul 03 - 07:12 AM

The officially correct spelling "[un]paralleled".

According to the normal patterns of [British and Irish] English this should be "[un]parallelled". My guess is that people who can spell are so proud to show that they know that there is a single "l" at the end of the adjective "parallel" that they overcompensate and fail to double it where they should do so.

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: GUEST,Lidy
Date: 02 Jul 03 - 08:32 AM

I'm a linguist, I spend ages analysing and writing essays on this stuff, and what's really weird is that in academic circles in this subject, nothing is considered "right" or "wrong". The whole point is not to prescribe but to describe...obviously we're a bit more fussy about spelling because that doesn't vary as much regionally, but mispronunciation is just something we note down! Example; have you noticed how NOBODY in the UK under the age of around 40 speaks "RP" (Queen's English) anymore? The accent will totally disappear as the generation does... Fascinating stuff!

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: Snuffy
Date: 02 Jul 03 - 08:42 AM

"Five cent your change."?

In many parts of Britain the local dialect regularly uses the single form after a number (or other word denoting plurality) - "forty mile", "ten pound", "a dozen head", etc.

Why add an "s" when the number already tells you it's plural?

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 02 Jul 03 - 10:59 AM

I've been told that the three most commonly misspelled words in English are:

vermilion, inocculate and ukulele

For what its worth.

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 02 Jul 03 - 11:45 AM

The correct spelling is 'ukulele. Only in Hawai'i is the correct spelling taught.

Department of Useless Information- Vermillion is commonly found here in Canada (French also an official language).
In 1296, first appearance in print in English, it was spelled vermelyon.

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: Noreen
Date: 02 Jul 03 - 11:50 AM

A wonderful site to peruse is Ask Oxford.com from the Oxford University Press, whose authority cannot be questioned...

I've certainly learnt a lot from it! :0)

Are spellings like `privatize' and `organize' Americanisms?

Learned and learnt

Is there an apostrophe in the plural of pizza?

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: GUEST,Dave H.
Date: 02 Jul 03 - 12:16 PM

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: GUEST,Dave H.
Date: 02 Jul 03 - 12:18 PM

Sorry for the previous, I tend to hit enter which automatically sends.

A little bit of a drift but,

I used to get in trouble in school for using the English spellings for words such as color (colour). Although perfectly acceptable according to the dictionary the teachers didn't like it.

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 02 Jul 03 - 02:49 PM

Snuffy:
Why add an "s" when the number already tells you it's plural?

What reason then for the people who insist on mentioning a 'one pence coin', or 'one pence change'; the singular is (and always was) one penny!
Even worse is the description of the coin as 'One pee', in pre-decimal times we never described a penny as 'one dee'

Nigel

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: GUEST,Denise:^), house-sitting
Date: 02 Jul 03 - 03:26 PM

Snuffy:
"Why add an "s" when the number already tells you it's plural?"

Oh, I see:
"I'll just wear this pair of sock..." --since pair means two...

I didn't mean that they should add the 's' to the five, but to the 'cent...'
(The alternative is intriguing:
"I've been waiting for three hour for you..."
"My six brother and I went to the fair together..."
"I bought a new pair of dulcimer hammer from the festival..."
"Please order ten gallon of ice cream for the party..."
Hmmmmm...!!!! )


Just heard another old favorite on t.v.--
"Wimble-TON." Grrrrrr...

Denise:^)

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 02 Jul 03 - 04:05 PM

One of the best parts of the Oxford English Dictionary are the mini-essays given with many of the words. For example, we learn that "serviette" is vulgar usage (unnecessary use of a foreign word in place of table napkin).

Although many words end with the suffix -ize (see post above somewhere), the OED provides a mini-essay on analyse, which some Britons and all Americans spell analyze. Mentioned in the website under privatize (Noreen's post), here is part of the argument from the OED:
"Hence from the first it was commonly written in English analyze, the spelling accepted bt Johnson [he did much to regularize English spelling], and historically quite defensible. The objection that this assumes a Gk. G----- itself assumes that analyse is formed on the Gk. ----- , which is etymologically impossible and historically untrue [----; the Gk. words left out]."
In other words, better know your Greek before you argue about the spelling of -ize and -ise words!

Noreen, the OED website answered my question about why most Britons ignore the preferred -ize spellings in the OED: Lazy spellers plus a touch of Anti-Americanism.

Now if the OED will just put its complete edition on the net without the hefty charge for its use .....

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: Noreen
Date: 02 Jul 03 - 04:55 PM

As I said, I learnt a lot from it, Q! I have always been told that the ...ize ending was an Americanisation.

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: GUEST,CrazyEddie
Date: 03 Jul 03 - 05:10 AM

Light Amplification by the Stimulated Emission of Radiation.

LASER

How can you make LAZER from it?

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: GUEST,Terry K
Date: 03 Jul 03 - 06:35 AM

My pet peeve is Ibiza, pronounced as "eye-beetha" by the people who continue to bugger it up as a holiday resort, instead of "ee-beetha" as it should be.

A somewhat more upmarket one is that the "t" in Moet (of "et Chandon" fame) should not be silent - even though everyone seems to want to say "Mow - ay". The Moet family are not French, hence the "t" is pronounced.

See also Nigel's comment about the dreaded term "one pence piece" which saved me a lot of typing.

cheers, Terry

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 03 Jul 03 - 06:31 PM

Ibiza- depends on where you come from. The th is almost entirely lacking in Latin American Spanish. Some Andalusians say only Castilians and fairies (oh, my! pinc!)lisp it.
Similarly, Aranjuez.

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 03 Jul 03 - 08:10 PM

Just read today's (July 3, 2003) New York Times Email edition for today. I found this:

Today's Editorials
No Budging in California
"California's Republicans cannot continue to tow the party line on taxes if the state is to resolve its budgetary crisis."

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: LilyFestre
Date: 03 Jul 03 - 09:50 PM

We host children from New York City each summer. We frequently hear them say, "I'm gonna axe my mommy...." In response, they hear us shriek, "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!! Why would you want to do such a thing?!?!?!?" We get blank looks for a few days and eventually they figure it out....ASK....and NOT AXE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The kids who return year after year get a chuckle out of it each and every time!

Lily =^..^=

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: GUEST,Strollin Johnny
Date: 04 Jul 03 - 07:33 AM

One of our local pubs advertises 'Wensday night - Striper, one for the lads'. Hope the landlord can pull a pint better than he can spell.

Use of an apostrophe before the 's' in a plural (pea's, bean's etc.) gives me a serious attack of the vapours. Don't these buggers learn anything at school?

Also, those serial abusers of the English language, TV Announcers, who describe persons/things at risk as 'vunerable' do me in.
SJ

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: GUEST,Bagpuss
Date: 04 Jul 03 - 07:46 AM

From American Heritage Dictionary

Ax, a common nonstandard variant of ask, is often identified as an especially salient feature of African American Vernacular English. While it is true that the form is frequent in the speech of African Americans, it used to be common in the speech of white Americans as well, especially in New England. This should not be surprising since ax is a very old word in English, having been used in England for over 1,000 years. In Old English we find both ascian and acsian, and in Middle English both asken and axen. Moreover, the forms with cs or x had no stigma associated with them. Chaucer used asken and axen interchangeably, as in the lines "I wol aske, if it hir will be/To be my wyf" and "Men axed hym, what sholde bifalle," both from The Canterbury Tales. The forms in x arose from the forms in sk by a linguistic process called metathesis, in which two sounds are reversed. The x thus represents (ks), the flipped version of (sk). Metathesis is a common linguistic process around the world and does not arise from a defect in speaking. Nevertheless, ax has become stigmatized as substandard—a fate that has befallen other words, like ain't, that were once perfectly acceptable in literate circles.

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: LilyFestre
Date: 04 Jul 03 - 07:58 AM

Hey,
Thanks for the history...that's interesting!

Lily =^..^=

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 04 Jul 03 - 02:35 PM

African-Americans, as slaves, got much of their English from their masters and overseers, many of whom spoke in the dialects they and their ancestors brought from 'the old country', hence ax for ask, etc., pointed out above.
Spelling was standardized largely through the efforts of Samuel Johnson, the 18th century lexicographer and his followers, but until formal schooling eroded the dialects, the old words persisted. And still persist among those of us who enjoy the language in all of its parts.

Always wondered why 'am't I' never became popular for Am I not.

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: GUEST,pdc
Date: 04 Jul 03 - 02:36 PM

Sorry I don't have a proper reference for this -- apparently a documentary has just been made about kids entered in a spelling bee. It's supposed to be quite good. At the end, there is a sign held up to the winner that says "Congradulations!"

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: LilyFestre
Date: 04 Jul 03 - 08:07 PM

Hey All,

Thanks for the history behind the use of ax/awe for ask, it was a different angle for me to ponder. I am seeing the use of ax/axe for ask as a dialect, in a sense, of these young girls from the inner city neighborhoods of NYC. Something gets lost in their language...at least for me. Take a look and see what you think....


The Lord's Prayer
In Ebonics


EBONICS                               ENGLISH

Big Daddy's Rap                      The Lord's Prayer

Yo, Bid Daddy upstairs,               Our Father, who art in heaven
You be chillin                        Hallowed be thy name
So be yo hood                         Thy Kingdom come
You be sayin' it, I be doin' it       Thy will be done
In this here hood and yo's            On earth as it is in heaven
Gimme some eats                      Give us this day our daily bread
And cut me some slack, Blood          And forgive us our trespasses
Sos I be doin' it to dem             As we forgive those who trespasses
dat diss me                            against us
Don't be pushing me into no jive      And lead us not into temptation
And keep dem Crips away               But deliver us from evil
'Cause you always be da Man.          For thine is the Kingdom, the power
                                        and the glory, forever and ever.

Aaa-men                               Amen


A whole different world....no?   :)

Lily =^..^=

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: Chief Chaos
Date: 05 Jul 03 - 10:58 PM

What I always wondered was what comes after Ebonics?

Ebmathics: 2 n 1 Ekals 4 (pronounced "FO")?

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 06 Jul 03 - 01:21 PM

I'm an editor, brought up in England now living next door to Uncle Sam and trying to save Canada from throwing the cultural identity away. Here are some I see and hear regularly:

Mother's Day. It's not possessive, it's descriptive, so no apostrophe please!

barbeque should that be pronounced bar-beek?

Ceasar salad,

and of course war-chesta-shigher sauce , no wonder so many people just call it Lea & Perrin's!

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 06 Jul 03 - 01:47 PM

TBPL: Mother's Day seems fine to me if it is the day I give a gift to my mother, however, if I accept that everyone celebrates on the same day then Mothers' Day would be correct. In either case an apostrophe is required. Of course, as an editor you may wish to save on ink, or column inches, by omitting as many apostrophes as possible.
Of course it has been commercialized over time. I remember it as 'Mothering Sunday' which was as much about giving thanks for 'Mother Church'.

Nigel

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 06 Jul 03 - 04:46 PM

"Caesar" salad was first concocted in Mexico by a chef named César (pronounced Says'-are).

Both the OED and Merriam Webster's give barbeque three syllables. The word is not French. Some people credit it to the New World Spanish word, barbacoa (a framework for supporting meat over a fire) but originally the word was probably Caribbean Indian. An early example from the OED suggests this:
Hickeringill, "Jamaica," 1661- "Some are slain, and their flesh forthwith Barbecu'd and eaten." Adair, 1775, "American Indians," spelled it the way we do, barbecue.

As for Worse ter sauce, most of us over here use Heinz.

I suppose Big Pink would pronounces niche "neesh," in the English Quebec-Ottawa dialect. Cotgrave introduced the word to English in his dictionary or 1611, using Italian nicchia as the root word. His friend Jonson used it in a play three years later, and it has been nitch ever since.

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: LilyFestre
Date: 06 Jul 03 - 10:25 PM

Chief,

LOL...dat b 2 funee!   ;)

Lily =^..^=

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: Noreen
Date: 07 Jul 03 - 09:04 AM

Q, Big Pink's point is that barbecue is spelt with a c not a q.

And niche is pronounced in the french way (neesh) in the UK by most people, I'd say.

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: GUEST,Strollin Johnny
Date: 07 Jul 03 - 10:04 AM

As Worcestershire is pronounced 'Wustersher' here. Except us posh 'uns up in't North call it Lea 'n' Perrin's!

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: Kim C
Date: 07 Jul 03 - 01:13 PM

Expresso instead of eSpresso

Calvary instead of CAValry

Joolary instead of jewelry

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: GUEST,Strollin' Johnny
Date: 08 Jul 03 - 12:38 PM

Pronuciations - 'Nucular' instead of 'nuclear', 'a-loo-min-um' instead of 'al-yoo-min-yum' (sorry guys, I guess it's the old UK/USA thang again!). Glottal stops (e.g. le'er instead of letter, ta'oo instead of tattoo) which have become far more common since they started that showing that bloody 'East Enders' drivel on the telly. And worst of all, the use of an 'f' or a 'v' where there's a 'th' (e.g. 'fink' instead of 'think', or 'wiv' instead of 'with') - more foul 'East Enders' influence, and sheer unadulterated idleness on the part of the perpetrator.

Spelling - 'are' instead of 'our', 'maintainance' instead of 'maintenance' and 'fourty' instead of 'forty'.

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: Kim C
Date: 08 Jul 03 - 04:13 PM

Flamingo instead of Flamenco

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: Kim C
Date: 08 Jul 03 - 04:22 PM

Oh, and Webster, I have been a Southerner all my life, and I do not warsh, rinch, or bresh, neither do I drink alkyhol. (I have been known to wash, brush, and have a glass of wine.) However, once in awhile I do have an extry something or other, just for fun. ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 08 Jul 03 - 05:18 PM

Kim C, seldom heard "warsh" in the south. It shows up in a lot of places. I catch myself warshing, which I could have obtained from either north of England or Irish grandparents on one side, but very doubtfully from Spanish and Am. Indian on the other. I am pretty sure that it came over from the north of England, but need someone from the UK to verify.

Noreen caught the barbeque, which is a common way of spelling it here (Canadian English, a year or two of compulsory French in the west which is soon lost or twisted into something that is wrong in both languages). A bit of attempted humor which went awry- oh, well. Has anyone brought up aw-ree yet?

Odd how many English ignore the Oxford dictionary; seemingly "neesh" is another example.

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: Kim C
Date: 08 Jul 03 - 05:41 PM

I think I remember my granny saying "warsh." She was from West Virginia, which is or isn't part of the South, depending on who you ask. She lived in Indiana for a number of years.

We do see the abbreviation "BBQ" or "bar-b-q" a lot...

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 09 Jul 03 - 09:28 AM

Regarding the nuclear/nucular problem:

There are many words in English that end with -ular and only a few with -lear, and there is only one other (that I can find on my CD-ROM American Heritage Dictionary) where -lear is pronounced as two syllables: cochlear, adj. Pertaining to the cochlea, an inner-ear organ.

A few of the more common ones: angular, cellular, circular, consular, curricular, granular, insular, jocular, jugular, ocular, particular, perpendicular, popular, regular, secular, singular, spectacular, vascular, ventricular. (And then there are the words that can be built up from these: triangular, multicellular, etc.)

So if you can't forgive "nucular" at least you ought to be able to understand it.

I predict "nucular"--at least the pronunciation--will become more accepted and will be added to dictionaries in the future.

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 09 Jul 03 - 11:29 AM

Nucleus has been around since about 1700, spawning nucleic, nuclear, nucleobranch and other words used in the sciences. I doubt that it will change. The ending is -ar, not ear, so it is like some of the others- granule, cellule, etc.

Have yet to meet with a perpendicule, but it has a nice sound to it. Hmmm, will have to find a use for it.

Nucule is a word used by botanists. It probably has appeared as the adjective, nucular in their writings.

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: GUEST,Strollin' Johnny
Date: 09 Jul 03 - 12:46 PM

Jim, I reckon you're right about the mispronunciation 'nucular' probably becoming the accepted norm. Guess I'll just have to wind my neck back in and accept progress (if that's what it is!).

I'm sure the adage is true that Britain and the USA are two nations divided by a common language, but it all adds to the fun! Gives us summat (Northern-England dialect meaning 'something') to poke each other with!

Cheers & Beers,
Johnny

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: Noreen
Date: 09 Jul 03 - 03:58 PM

Odd how many English ignore the Oxford dictionary;...

Does anybody or any nation take their pronunciation from a dictionary?
Dictionaries follow the language, they don't lead. Or are you saying, Q, that we should take our pronunciation from the OED?

I suppose France may be officially an exception, with the Academie Francais- but they still cant control how ordinary people speak.