Obit: My Wife

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: Big Tim
Date: 16 Dec 03 - 04:10 PM

Heartfelt sympathies.

I lost my favourite brother 18 months ago and I still miss him so badly. God knows how I'd survive if I lost my wife.

Sounds like, with LH and people like that, you have good friends. Hang in there.

John.

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: *daylia*
Date: 16 Dec 03 - 02:15 PM

Ooooo ... so you get to cat around at work too?

Figures!

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: Raptor
Date: 16 Dec 03 - 01:58 PM

Daylia I am at work!

This is where I mudcat the most!

David

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: Little Hawk
Date: 16 Dec 03 - 10:55 AM

I went snowshoeing with Raptor on the weekend, and he is doing pretty well, it seems. Me...I've been just barely holding off a cold (I think) ever since. So far so good. We have watched the entire first 2 seasons of "Trailer Park Boys" on DVD, and I can recommend it without reservation to anyone who does not have a broomstick rammed up their you-know-where...

The scenes where you get to see Ricky slide down the ravine behind the shopping mall about 15 times in a row and in his utter frustration yell a certain common expletive are worth the whole price of admission. :-) It's all about "supply and command", see? You master that, and it's "Freedom 35", baby! And all the pepperoni sticks you can eat.

- LH

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: Sweetfia
Date: 16 Dec 03 - 10:45 AM

Sorry, i was too deep in thought, that should have read....'not feel like it'.

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: *daylia*
Date: 16 Dec 03 - 10:45 AM

Sophia, if you want to help David smile, just ask him how to achieve "enlightenment". (Something to do with an asscan --- oops, sorry, that's "ashram").

Raptor, my buddy! How come you're not at work this morning huh? HUH????

;-) Love and blessings, daylia

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: Sweetfia
Date: 16 Dec 03 - 10:39 AM

Sorry to hear about your loss...keep your head high and, though it may not fell lik eit right now, you will smile again.

Sophia xxx

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: Raptor
Date: 16 Dec 03 - 09:40 AM

It's amazing how much love there is here on the mudcat!

I'm doing better every day, and between my friends babysitting me and my puppy I don't feel that lonely!

Thanks Again!

David

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: Mrrzy
Date: 14 Dec 03 - 11:04 AM

So sorry, just read this very sad thread. Condolences especially in this midwinter time. It will get darker, but then it will get lighter again.

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: Two_bears
Date: 14 Dec 03 - 01:41 AM

Aloha nui loa Raptor; my brother.

I have been pretty busy this week and not had time to check on you as I should have. How are you doing?

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: Raptor
Date: 13 Dec 03 - 09:09 AM

Thank you

Raptor

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: CarolC
Date: 12 Dec 03 - 03:53 PM

I'm sorry I didn't see this sooner.

I send my deepest condolences for your loss, David, and my best thoughts and wishes for comfort and healing for you and your loved ones.

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: *daylia*
Date: 12 Dec 03 - 12:01 PM

Refresh, for David

Earth to Raptor ... Earth to Raptor ... Come in, Raptor! I wanna hear from ya pleeeeez ....

Love, daylia

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: *daylia*
Date: 10 Dec 03 - 07:20 AM

David it's good to see you check in here, sounding so chipper too! I keep wanting to phone you every day, but don't want you to start feeling "babysat" either!   :-/

Thanks for being so openminded towards the debate about grieving above. And now a true confession ... I take responsibility for starting it, because a couple suggestions above did not sit well with me when I first read them. I felt that if I were in your place, I would NOT want people phoning me on the monthly anniversary of my loved one's passing, or bombarding me with photos and stories at every opportunity. At least, not until I'd resolved my own feelings and memories somewhat, and that would take some time I'm sure. The very idea of people doing that made me want to cry out "beam me up, Scotty!" Knowing that Two Bears has more experience helping people deal with situations like this than I do, I asked for his opinion. And so he checked in here.

I did suggest to him that if he wanted to present his insights re grieving here, he start a new thread to do it. I really wish he had. The debate above feels so insensitive and inappropriate on this condolence thread. Thank you again for being so accepting. And hey, maybe Heide is enjoying the debate after all, from the "Other Side"! Thanks for that too!   :-)

...debating is encouraged if kept in a friendly non-preachey fashion.   I second the motion!

She had a lot more spirituality than me

Heide studied and practiced different spiritual traditions more than you do, but I don't think that means your spirituality is in any way "less than" hers. I think everyone has the same "amount" of spirituality. Just like everyone has vocal chords, yet not everyone chooses to becomes a public speaker or a singer! Spirituality is part of human nature, and it's our choice to explore and develop it ... or not. There's LOTS of other important and wonderful things to explore!

I don't know what to believe in now! Well, if I were you I'd know exactly what to believe in -- myself and my ability to easily, lovingly and wisely handle anything life throws at me. You are one special dude!

And please know that you and Heide are still in my prayers, (believe it or not!)    ;-)

daylia

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: Two_bears
Date: 10 Dec 03 - 07:19 AM

> Nothing I've read here seems harmfull, Only people triing to be
> helpfull! And Heide was quite often My "brain" Iv'e lost that and

Aloha nui loa David; my brother.

I certainly meant nothing harmful. I just wanted the other well intending indivisuals to give you some space until you were ready to share stories.

Everyone deals with grief differently and according to their own time table, and people going through grief should be supported, but should not be rushed along the grieving process according to someone else's schedule.

> She had a lot more spirituality than me and I don't know what to
> believe in now!

Assorted forms of spirituality were formed according to the varying levels of awareness of the people that founded them.

The assorted forms of spirituality are different, but there is not one true faith, and all of the others are wrong (as my guardians believed).

I would suggest that you explore several forms of spirituality, and follow the tradition that answers your spiritual questions.

Two Bears.

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: Escamillo
Date: 10 Dec 03 - 03:39 AM

When my dear wife died one year ago, I did write something that is not an obituary, but a simple, long letter. This was written for her two sisters and one brother, and for their children and as many generations as possible. In that letter I told them how I loved and respected this woman, how she dedicated her life to me and to our sons, how she made of me the happiest man in the world and our three sons the most beloved sons. I told them how noble was her sister, and how grateful I was for their welcoming to their family.

I wouldn't like to die any day without having told everybody who was my Graciela. It's an idea, for those of us who aren't able to write a book or many songs.

Un abrazo,
Andrés

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 10 Dec 03 - 12:34 AM

Raptor,

I read the obituaries in my hometown newspaper, and find I learn so much about the community that doesn't come through in the rest of the paper. What is your local newspaper, is it online, and did you run an obituary for your wife? Did you use a photo?

To write an obituary you have to gather your thoughts, and distill what you know and loved about that person into a time capsule that you send out to the world. Sometimes they're the best writing in the paper.

When my father died I used a photo taken at a hoot at his house a few years earlier, because it caught him in an engaged and happy time. My mother was a skilled geneologist, and my sister made sure that her obit included family names and relationships that will speak to generations in the future. Some of the obits that really touch me are those where the woman may look like my mother and have a similar history, or I see the passings-on in the families old friends. And there are also touching memorial notices in the paper. One I took note of recently and sent to a friend who fishes was this one.

SRS

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: Amos
Date: 09 Dec 03 - 11:46 PM

David:

I think I understand. I can only suggest you make a little plan to take over one thing at a time, notice yourself managing it, and each time you succeed at something where once you depended on Heidi, acknowledge yourself and her as well. Pick up the hats one at a time, one small skill at a time, and give yourself plenty of breathing room and plenty of baby-step triumphs. This will gradually enable you to resume your own whole and entire beingness in the world as your own man. Nothing is more worthwhile.

A

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: Raptor
Date: 09 Dec 03 - 11:14 PM

Ya know what guys
If Heide was here she would be right in there argueing with you on how I should Grieve! She loved a good debate and this is a good debate!!

Nothing I've read here seems harmfull, Only people triing to be helpfull! And Heide was quite often My "brain" Iv'e lost that and could use all the guidence I can get so all sudgestions are welcome, and debateing is encouraged if kept in a friendly non-preachey fashion. She had a lot more spirituality than me and I don't know what to believe in now!

David

Thanks for looking out for me Mick!

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: Guy Wolff
Date: 09 Dec 03 - 09:27 PM

Thanks Mick for saying what you did so well. Perfect.

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: Lorraine
Date: 09 Dec 03 - 06:55 PM

Raptor-My thoughts and sympathy to you. Death seems so final. Memories, pictures, reminiscenses from others who have known her are only a little help, I suspect. But every little bit is some help, I hope. But my love and hugs to you even though we have never met. Lorraine

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: GUEST,pdc
Date: 09 Dec 03 - 06:38 PM

Well said, Mick. This is no place for egos.

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: GUEST,Big Mick at work
Date: 09 Dec 03 - 06:34 PM

David, I grieve for you and with you. I cannot imagine the loss or how you will bear it, but I know that a worldwide community miracle known as The Mudcat is here for you in whatever way big or small that you require. I am proud of these people and their hearts. And I thank you for sharing your life with us. I don't know what I can do to support you, but my email is [e-mail].

To those that chose to turn this into a debate and a self serving recitation of credentials, shame on you. I hope David will forgive this. If anyone wants to continue that part of the discussion, would you please start a separate thread and post no more of this here. I would be grateful.

All the best,

Mick

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: s&r
Date: 09 Dec 03 - 10:00 AM

My wife is my friend, my workmate, my lover, my conscience and my inspiration. I cannot imagine life without her.

You have more sympathy than I have words to express.

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: Deda
Date: 08 Dec 03 - 07:16 PM

I am also very sorry to read of this awful loss. I pray that you find healing and comfort.

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: Hawker
Date: 08 Dec 03 - 06:50 PM

David, So sorry, Kindest thoughts, Lots of love and prayers
Lucy

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: sed
Date: 08 Dec 03 - 02:25 PM

It's wonderful and inspiring that many mudcat folk have responded so lovingly.

Steve Sedberry

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: Bassic
Date: 07 Dec 03 - 09:55 PM

You and your loved ones are in my thoughts. I celebrate with you, your joy in her life and add my small contribution to the embracing arms of the Mudcat "family".

Peace,

G

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: Two_bears
Date: 07 Dec 03 - 08:59 PM

After several people asked that I set up an account on MudCat; well here I am. I will no longer use the guest,Mato Nupai for the account.

Two Bears

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: ard mhacha
Date: 07 Dec 03 - 03:27 PM

Deepest sympathy, Ard Mhacha.

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: DougR
Date: 07 Dec 03 - 02:51 PM

Very sorry Raptor.

DougR

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: rock chick
Date: 07 Dec 03 - 02:41 PM

My deepest eepest sympathy is with you. We wonder why it happens to our loved ones, no matter how much searching you do there is no anwser, i went through a loss when in my twenties, my first husband, all you can do is know that you have friends, ones thats are willing to be there with you, thinking and praying for you to have strength. Lean on those friends for they have strong shoulders.

God rest her sole.

Shelagh

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: sledge
Date: 07 Dec 03 - 09:27 AM

All that can be said has already been said by those much more eloquent than myself, but I am very sorry to hear of your loss, stay strong.

Stuart

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: wysiwyg
Date: 07 Dec 03 - 08:47 AM

Let's stop debating anyone's posts and just let this thread be what it will be. People are free to take wht is useful and leave the rest. Even when what may be needful doesn't appear to have been heard, it is heard and saved for the time when it is useful. Relax. Everyone here is learning and growing in wisdom-- even if we don't always show that. :~) This thread is either a place for debate or for condolence.... and it won't work to try to make it serve both pursuits.

~Susan

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: GUEST,Mato Nupai
Date: 07 Dec 03 - 12:03 AM

> All I know is, I needed stories about Byron from the very first day
> after his death. I still need them.

Aloha nui loa Allison; my sister.

Of course you needed to hear stories about Byron. You wanted to know how he affected the lives of other people.

If Daylia or Little Hawk wants to share stories of Heide; that would be great; but David should not allow well meaning individuals to push him in directions he is not prepared to go now.

> And I also know from experience, that the "stages" of grief spiral
> around and twist and turn in a very non-linear path for me. I am
> not through with one, then move on to the next. I often still feel
> a combination of numbness, grief, anger, sorrow, even acceptance.
> Let's not forget denial!

Grief can do many things to a person.

You are correct that denial is a state in the grieving process.

> And I won't be told how to grieve by anyone, no matter how
> qualified.

Nor should you. AS I discussed with Stilly River Sage. There is not one right way to grieve. There are bad ways, and there are better ways to grieve, but each person will grieve in the way that is right for them.

I only hope people will give David some space until he is ready to share stories.

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: GUEST,Mato Nupai
Date: 06 Dec 03 - 11:42 PM

GUEST 9:59am, you are correct. But gentle nudges don't seem to work with GUEST,Mato Nupai. For someone so versed on the levels within grief, he doesn't seem to read between the lines. Whatever his understanding of the process, it's preaching to the choir to lecture the rest of us.
-----

Aloha nui loa Stilly

Now where did I hide that ministers license? ;-)

Seriously though; I'm sorry you felt as if I was preaching at you. All I want is for well meaning people to give David a little space until he is ready to talk about Heide.

-----
(Please don't cut and paste and send any more remarks to what I've said. Thank you.)
-----

WEll; this is the first time I have been ask not to quote text (an attempt to be polite and remind people what I am talking about), and you are the first one to get upset for me telling you "I love you very much" with my aloha nui loa greeting.

Two Bears

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: Guy Wolff
Date: 06 Dec 03 - 06:08 PM

David , We havent ever talked in any of the threads but I just had to add my sorrow for your loss . It is an inpossable story and I am so sorry you are haveing this on your plate. One day at a time seems to have many uses. Keep breathing and walking and getting up in the morning. Im so sorry , Guy

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: RichM
Date: 06 Dec 03 - 05:32 PM

Bless you, and your wife.

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: GUEST,Stilly River Sage
Date: 06 Dec 03 - 05:21 PM

GUEST 9:59am, you are correct. But gentle nudges don't seem to work with GUEST,Mato Nupai. For someone so versed on the levels within grief, he doesn't seem to read between the lines. Whatever his understanding of the process, it's preaching to the choir to lecture the rest of us. (Please don't cut and paste and send any more remarks to what I've said. Thank you.)

Raptor, I'm glad to see that past history with silly or sarcastic postings didn't keep you from turning to Mudcat as one outlet for your grief. Did she ever chuckle while reading over your shoulder when you were posting some of these remarks?

SRS

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From:
Date: 06 Dec 03 - 04:13 PM

Sorry I haven't been on, earlier. We are very sorry to hear such sad news and send you thoughts of care, sympathy, and energy.

Kat & Rog

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: GUEST,Desdemona
Date: 06 Dec 03 - 01:33 PM

Please accept my sympathy for your sudden & shocking loss.

D.

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: AllisonA(Animaterra)
Date: 06 Dec 03 - 01:26 PM

Sorry, I thought I was on the Bereavement thread! This thread's really for David. I'll keep checking here, too, David, because this community is what it's all about.
Allison

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: AllisonA(Animaterra)
Date: 06 Dec 03 - 01:24 PM

All I know is, I needed stories about Byron from the very first day after his death. I still need them. And I also know from experience, that the "stages" of grief spiral around and twist and turn in a very non-linear path for me. I am not through with one, then move on to the next. I often still feel a combination of numbness, grief, anger, sorrow, even acceptance. Let's not forget denial!
And I won't be told how to grieve by anyone, no matter how qualified.
I will keep coming to this thread, and to the Mudcat, for the wealth of love and support from the members here.

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: Jeri
Date: 06 Dec 03 - 10:08 AM

Reading or posting about recreational suppositories (oh, HOW did I miss that one?!) is just skimming the surface layer. There's never a need to go to the deeper layers, but they've always been here.

"Say what you need to," is what Allison/Animaterra first said. We'll be here to listen.

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Dec 03 - 09:59 AM

I thought this thread was offering condolences to Raptor - I can't see how he's going to benefit from reading the above debate - shouldn't a new thread have been started?

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: Raptor
Date: 06 Dec 03 - 09:53 AM

I appriciate ALL sugestions and condolences from all of you

I feel a certin strength from the fact that so many people have taken time to bother with me here in my time of weakness!
Considering that up till now most of my posts have been Sarcastic and pointless such as swearing on cakes or recreational supositories! I never realized that so many of you are the kind of people that are there for anyone! Thank you all SO MUCH!

David

I will tell you stories about heide soon she was a great person and a loving wife!

I still feel like the luckiest guy to have known her!

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: GUEST,Mato Nupai
Date: 06 Dec 03 - 08:58 AM

Two Bears isn't in Hawaii, Stilly. He's in Tennessee. As for the bear spirit, it is an archetype that is everywhere, although it may be stronger in some places than in others (maybe...). Two Bears works in many traditions, and they all support each other quite well.

It is good that everyone express their own understanding in their own way, and their own opinion. Differences of opinion are inevitable in any large group of people, but this does not mean that something bad has happened. It is an opportunity, not an attack on anyone.
-----

Aloha nui loa Little Hawk; my brother.

I appreciate the kind words very much.

Two Bears.

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: GUEST,Mato Nupai
Date: 06 Dec 03 - 08:56 AM

-----
Two Bears, one reads into the remarks a level of correction on your part that seems inappropriate. Pardon me, but the term "levels of grief" is so very clinical, and not really how it feels when you lose a loved one.
-----

Aloha nui loa Stilly.

Well excuse me; but there are different levels of grief.

First there is numbness (the stage David in in now)
Then there is anger or rage (in some people)
Then there is grief
then there is acceptance, and the ability to move on with their life.

-----
I ask you to give his Mudcat commmunity the opportunity to express their sorrow and to ask him for his stories about his wife without your approval. It's not required.
-----

It is perfectly appropriate for David to tell some of his stories with Heidi; but now is not the time. In another week or two would be perfectly fine; but right now give him some time and space to deal with his emotions.

-----
It has been my experience that stories are what we are all made of, and stories are how we teach and share. And when Raptor is ready, I would like to hear his stories about his wife. The laughter of love
-----

I agree; but David should share when HE is ready. David is not on your my, or anyone else at mudcat schedules.

Please be patient amd allow David to do the inner work on himself and deal with the emotions.

-----
Funny, I would have sworn there were no bears in Hawaii.
-----

That is fair.

The Bear is my totem animal (spirit helper). I have been two completely different people in my life so the name Two Bears is appropriate.

I use Aloha nui loa in my greetings because I have done an intensive study into Hawai'ian mysticism, and I love what aloha nui loa means (I love you very much)

I live in Tennessee East of Nashville in an apartment. I can not build an inipi lodge, or a yuwipi lodge on the apartment complex gwounds for healing ceremonies; so Hawai'ian mysticism (some people call it Huna) allows me to do healings most effectively.

Also I have received the title "master" eight times.

Karuna Reiki (master/teacher
Magnussa Phoenix Reiki (grandmaster)
Seichim (master)
Seventh Facet Seichim (master)
Tibetan Reiki (master/teacher)
Usui Shiki Reiki (master/teacher)
Usui Shiki Ryoho Reiki (master/teacher)
Zhan Zhuang Qigong (master)

I also studied Actualism, Crystal healing, Kiatsu, MAP, HUNA and others.

Any more questions Stilly?

Two Bears

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: Little Hawk
Date: 05 Dec 03 - 10:31 PM

Two Bears isn't in Hawaii, Stilly. He's in Tennessee. As for the bear spirit, it is an archetype that is everywhere, although it may be stronger in some places than in others (maybe...). Two Bears works in many traditions, and they all support each other quite well.

It is good that everyone express their own understanding in their own way, and their own opinion. Differences of opinion are inevitable in any large group of people, but this does not mean that something bad has happened. It is an opportunity, not an attack on anyone.

- LH

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 05 Dec 03 - 10:03 PM

Two Bears, one reads into the remarks a level of correction on your part that seems inappropriate. Pardon me, but the term "levels of grief" is so very clinical, and not really how it feels when you lose a loved one.

I ask you to give his Mudcat commmunity the opportunity to express their sorrow and to ask him for his stories about his wife without your approval. It's not required.

It has been my experience that stories are what we are all made of, and stories are how we teach and share. And when Raptor is ready, I would like to hear his stories about his wife. The laughter of love that comes when one shares a story about the recently departed is as pure as the laughter of a small child.

SRS

Funny, I would have sworn there were no bears in Hawaii.