Is there a folk club mafia ?

Subject: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: Avril Betts
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 05:48 AM

Hello everyone, I've just joined Mudcat, Let me introduce myself.
I'm Avril Betts and I live in South East London. I started singing folk songs almost two years ago, although I've sung with a church choir since I was nine. I also sing regularly at various Karioci evenings. I sing most of my songs without accompaniment, although I've started using a bodran with some of them recently, and at some sessions various guitarists accompany me.

My songs always seem to go down well with the audience, but I keep getting told by club organisers that they can't fit me on the list or that I've got there too late. I often notice that a lot of the time, other singers, who are usually friends of the organiser, get there much later than me and still get a chance to sing. Is there a sort of mafia that runs in folk clubs and if so, how do you join ? One of the clubs which I go to regularly has "featured spots" where one of the regular singers gets a chance to do a mini-booking, but every time I ask if I can do one, I get told that they might think about it in the future. How long do you have to be singing before you get accepted ?

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 05:59 AM

Just local cliques, Avril, not any form of organised resistance to new entrants. It's the bad flip-side of people organising into clubs of any sort. It doesn't have to be this way of course, and there are several clubs west and north-west from London (Herga, Maidenhead, St Albans) that would welcome and embrace any newcomer.

Don't give up. Keep battering those walls. And widen your search of clubs. You'll find a good one soon.

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: breezy
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 06:09 AM

El Greks correct , but its tough in Catford anyway.
when I first visited st Albans I had no chance
Now I've taken over the singing scene and my clubs are the only ones worth being seen in.

Ring em up before you go and prebook your spot.


There that could stir up the sh.. !!!

I didnt know there were any clubs booking artistes in S E London

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: Leadfingers
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 06:24 AM

Avril - I can only reinforce whats been said above, but keep plugging away , phone the organisers to book you spot and DONT arrive late and expect to get on. Having run clubs myself, I know that most people like to 'balance their evenings if possible, so knowing who is there and what they do before you start makes it a lot easier.

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 06:31 AM

Avril.

I think it's only fair to say that you need to widen your choice of songs and definitely choose ones which are more suitable for folk clubs - most of the ones which I've heard you perform are pop music and without the instrumental backings just don't work. The only song that I've heard from you that really fitted into the folk club scene was "Lord of the Dance" - and that could have done without being drowned out by the bodhran. It would also help if you actually learned the words of songs, rather than have to read them from lots of bits of paper which you keep dropping all over the place and which you have to hold up close to your face.

Finally, the main reason that I and other guitarists accompany you, is that it helps to keep you singing in the same key, otherwise you're all over the place.

Linda's tried to help by suggesting some new songs, but you told her that they were all too boring - yet you'll notice that she usually gets asked to sing, when you don't.

Do some work on your singing, learn (not just read) some new, more suitable material, and listen to some of the more experienced singers - both their singing and advice, and perhaps you wouldn't have to feel that you were being unfairly treated.

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: Moses
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 06:35 AM

Folk clubs are run by "folks". They (the clubs and the organisers) come in all shapes, sizes and tastes. Depends on the format - are the clubs you have attended "concert" clubs which charge good money to enter and where it is expected that only top rate performers will appear? In this case the organisers would not take a risk to put on someone inexperienced or who may not deliver what their paying audience expects.

Try the "singers" or "spotlight" clubs where you will be welcome whatever your experience or level of talent.

Open evenings at Herga (most Monday nights at the Royal Oak) or the Spotlight club in St Albans (various Sundays - contact Breezy to pre-book a spot & check Unicorn for dates for both clubs) will guarantee you a "sing".

As El Greco says, keep trying until you find a club you like and which makes you feel welcome. There are plenty out there.

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 06:42 AM

Dye your hair blonde. Make the organiser think you might sleep with him.

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: Catherine Jayne
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 06:48 AM

Well well well look what the 'cat dragged up! I have to say to women...watch your men....she is a man eater...all over Micca everytime I look away!

Voice is ok but limited repetoire with a love of durges.

Welcome to the cat and enjoy

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: Doktor Doktor
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 06:51 AM

Theres a Singers Night at Stortfolk on Thursday - just on the London side of Stansted airport. You'd be welcome!

.. & if you want a non-mafia experience, come to Woodworks on 17th April. Details on beerfordbury.com .....

ps - we dont have any definition of "acceptable" songs - probably why our programme is a bit umm .. catholic ...

(pps Suggers says we're desperate anyway)

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: VIN
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 06:52 AM

Hi Avril.

Hope these experiences don't put you off going to the clubs/sessions, gigs etc. There's always been 'cliquishness' and 'favouritism' in folk clubs (as in any other areas and events where poeple gather together). I experienced this in the late sixties when i first attended folk clubs - and it still goes on, its a human thing. It may sound slightly naive, but it's the music that matters to me and that's initially what i go for, anything else is a bonus. If i'm invited to join in a singaround then that's nice but if not i'll just listen and enjoy the songs/tunes. Usually tho, i find people are pretty friendly if you give em a chance. Those that are'nt, well its there loss eh? Keep on singing!

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: VIN
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 07:00 AM

P.S. Having said that, Dave Bryant does give some useful tips. When poeple are prepared to offer constuctive advice, then thats great. I would always welcome it even at my age especially from more experienced performers.

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 07:00 AM

Guest - She dyes her hair black - and she gives all the fellows the idea that she might sleep with them ! - folk club organisers or not !
She even had a run-in with Khat on one occasion when she was obviously setting her bonnet at Micca. Tact is not one of Avril's finer skills - she basically asked Khat if her "dad" was looking for a girlfriend !

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 07:04 AM

Whoops - cross-posted with you Khat - hope you didn't mind me telling the full story - I know that Micca was highly amused and has "dined out" on it since.

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: Micca
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 07:08 AM

Well, take it from me mate, Dirges and a worse singer than me, and it is my opinion that Avril is Poison!!!

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: breezy
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 07:08 AM

O K , I've got the fuller picture now.

Go and do your research and find and learn your material thoroughly.

You are being overlooked cos you aint ready for the folk audience yet.

dont be put off, there is no short cut.

Pop songs are boring, mundane and are unsingable as they mostly have little or no melody while their content is pure dross.

Thats why we descerning folkies demand more and have higher expectations of the material and of us as performers

it takes alot of years and a large collection of CDs

see www.folk4all.net and see how many of the artistes named on the St Albans guest list you know of and have heard

You want to run before you can walk.

But you have to have staying power, I went from Puff the M D to the watersons via Paul Simon in one week at the railway Tavern Catford in 64

No crib sheets allowed, its not a choir, actors dont read the lines onstage, and you are on stage when you stand there, so be weell versed and rehearsed before starting.

good luck

Sleep with the organiser? now thats an idea.

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: Morticia
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 07:18 AM

Sorry Avril but you know I've said this to your face as well, dear, if you must persist in singing Celine Dion songs, it would probably help if you finished in approximately the same key you started in and knew at least some of the words......and the tune.

I think I was the only folk club organiser she hasn't tried to sleep with, so I guess that won't work either.

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 07:19 AM

Hey, man-eating is not a crime folks. Neither is the reverse. When we started going to folk clubs, for many of us that was one of the main attractions - why should things change now? Having said that, a bit of tact goes a long way.

Breezy gives some sterling advice (and he is available).

As for me, sorry - happily married. But it's been ages since I had to fend off any attention, so go on - boost my ego.

Don't give up, girl. But do listen to the advice, and keep plugging.

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 07:21 AM

But I did find Micca's story funny, go on Khatt, admit it!

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: greg stephens
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 07:22 AM

Well, well, well....what you find on Mudcat eh?

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 07:22 AM

Interesting - no-one has offered to sleep with me to get a spot. I wonder how I might react.........

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: Micca
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 07:32 AM

Well, Next time I go to Swinton, Manchester, FC I am NOT going to offer to sleep with Dave the Gnome OR Spot the Dog!!!!

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: GUEST,two sides maybe
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 07:33 AM

Sounds like Avril has made a few enemies!
However - there can be two sides...
If she genuinely thought Micca & Khatt were father & daughter then she made an honest mistake - Micca is a lovely friendly bloke & maybe she was misreading his signals.
What are the specific pop songs that are being dismissed as worthless? Are they REALLY the dross type, or just not suitable to a particular style of club. There are good and bad songs in "pop".
There are plenty of threads debating the issue of whether or not it is acceptable to read the words - and there are arguments on both sides.
I don't know Avril - but I hate to see anyone being so completely slagged off.... - especially when she has given her name and location & so has made herself vulnerable to attack

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: beetle cat
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 07:35 AM

Hey Avril, we share a last name. Im Mary Betts from NYC. There are lots of traditional songs that arnt boring. Half the fun is in researcing them.   GOOD LUCK.

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: pixieofdoom
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 07:36 AM

The mafia told me to tell you that if you persist in these defamatory allegations you'll wake up one morning to find a bodhran skin on your pillow. They'll make you an offer that's 87 verses long.

Seriously though, you might get asked to do more spots if you didn't tell everyone in the club how you'd run it better, usually loudly and over the top of everyone elses songs. Just a suggestion

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: Avril Betts
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 07:37 AM

Perhaps I should look for some new clubs. The only thing is that I don't have a car and all of the clubs mentioned are the other side of London from me, I live near Woolwich. I could probably get there by train, as I work in central London, but it's getting home late at night that's the problem. If any fellows could give me a lift home afterwards, I'd love to come. I could even put someone up at my flat in Woolwich if they didn't want to drive all the way back.

Dave Bryant - You and Linda don't sing the sort of songs that I like. One singer who I do like is Ron Trueman Border, I like his style, perhaps I'll try and learn some of his songs. I have to hold my words close to my face because I am very short-sighted, and I don't like wearing glasses because I think they make me look unattractive.

I don't think that I do flirt, OK I like men and have been looking for a steady boyfriend since I lost my husband three years ago. I behave the same with the people I know at church and noone has comlained there.

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: Essex Girl
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 07:49 AM

Avril, the people at Church always try to be 'nice'. We do most of the time, but it gets a bit wearing when you don't take any notice of more experienced performers suggestions. Haven't you noticed the way people always go to the loo or the bar when you're singing.I agree that Rons songs are very good but they do need a guitar backing.

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: Catherine Jayne
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 07:53 AM

Avril, I suggest you take a good long hard look at yourself in the mirror. I admit that you can be a good person but you don't realise the signal you put out.

If you want to be taken seriously take heed of what people have said. Listen to more folk music...if you want to sing pop songs go to a karaoke night down your local pub.

Guest 2 sides.....Avril knows full well Micca and I are not father and daughter....she was being snide.....however Im glad Linda didn't see her trying her best with Dave!...that would have been a confrontation I would have paid to watch!!

El G....yes the story is funny but unacceptable!!

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 07:59 AM

Micca...

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: breezy
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 08:08 AM

I like Ron Truman -B and I booked him at my club this year.

I played his Cd over the summer and look forwrd to hearing him again.

However his songs are a marriage of content and style and if one aspect is divorced fromthe other then it may not work unless you are brilliantly talented.

The divorce is at the nisi stage seeing as grek mentioned it.

I'll be at Waltham Abbey tonight,at the legion , Mike Nicholson's on and he'll be travelling home to kent after I think , but moses will have her eye on me. See you during the interal for an audition, stand up or lying down, whatever way makes you feel comfortable its all the same to me.

Think I'll put Ron on
5 minutes do you? or is it a ballad?

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 08:10 AM

Glasses wouldn't make you unattractive, Avril. Squinting might. Use what you have, and that includes the glasses.

Learn the words as much as possible, this will allow you to "perform" the song. You can keep them close buy for a reminder or for comfort if necessary - as long as your energy is directed to performing rather than reading.

If there's a problem with holding the pitch, then some simple tone-giving accompaniment might be in order. The bodhran does not help there. It's good for some songs, but spoils the rest. Why not take up the guitar? Simple chord stuff, just to keep you in check.

Travel is a problem, but if you can combine with visits to friends in the vicinity, that would make it easier.

As for the rubbing up of people the wrong way: Well, not everyone can be sensitive enough to realise it when they are offending. But listen to criticism, and even if you think it wrong, apologise - it shows at least that your intentions are honourable. Remember that the simple fact that you are advertising "available and looking for a friend", in word or behaviour, is likely to increase sensitivity in protective partners - that is normal and natural. Don't hold bitterness, it only makes things worse. You go to church, so use some of the good advice there.

And keep plugging.
Good luck

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: GUEST,Two Sides
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 08:17 AM

Well that's diffrnt then Khatt. Maybe she's just jealous. No need to be snidey though is there? Grrrr.
Sounds like a woman slightly out of control - I hope she can take that honest look at herself & sort herself out.
Avril - I expect if you were to take on board what people here are saying a bit then it would not take long to turn the situation around a bit & have everyone nicely unruffled again. You may have to work at rebuilding some bridges, but its probably worth it.

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: greg stephens
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 08:17 AM

Interesting as all this may be, I feel it should be deleted. A little too personal for Mudcat.

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 08:20 AM

Agree, Khatt, sorry. If anyone asked Vanessa whether her Michelin-man was available she'd feel the same...At least I like to think that she would! (Now I'm worried...)

My disappointment is - nobody has asked her such a question... At least you can both be proud of the unwelcome interest. And a bit of smugness might also be allowed in the circumstances :-)

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 08:22 AM

Greg,
yes it's personal, but it looks like there is some constructive dialogue going on - Avril is listening and talking still. It might do some good after all.

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: GUEST,Betsy
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 08:26 AM

Folk music is a big church - but some music doesn`t fit. Hard to tell what sort - and also some types are acceptable in one club and not so much in another.
Dave Bryant - I know him not - seems to have been very constructive - and this thread seems to be very self promoting to this lady so maybe you are that type of girl who is using this thread as a publicity vehicle.
There are some clubs which will not book certain singers performers because this or that particular singer does not fit in with their idea of a Folk night - nowt wrong with that-their members & attendees are paying - so they know a general direction they want to go in.
Sounds like a bit of practice and new songs are needed young lady - and the only tips I can give,is,leave the drum at home and find clubs where they will tolerate you - however difficult
They can`t be ALL wrong

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: GUEST,JOHN of ELSIE`S BAND
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 08:29 AM

Avril,
       Having read Dave Bryants`s vivid description of your performance you appear to have made quite an impression and any folk club really should give you a floor spot. But seriously, we have run folk clubs in London and the south east from the "Railway Tavern" at Catford to our "sing and play" nights where we are now and never once have we resorted to pre-booking floor spots. Sound a bit "mafia-ish" to me.

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: breezy
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 08:30 AM

this is where the support really is over here, hang fire greg, others may empathise, and most of us know each other.
its some times harder for some of us to talk face to face but there is a clear picture emerging and there is humour too.
Let it ride .
this is real folk in and around the london scene.

was it the word 'mafia' that bothered you?

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: breezy
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 08:35 AM

John,   I think you got it arseaboutface, its the artistes who ring up the club to secure their floor spots in advance to be sure of getting on, not the other way about.
so I wopuld ring you to ask if I can have a floor spot at Elsie's

See you in Padstow on 1st of M, regards to all.

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: el ted
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 08:38 AM

I had to sleep with the harri watts band to ensure my place in the concert we are giving at The Lamp in Hull on wednesday night.

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 08:39 AM

You did sleep with me at Swinton, Micca!

Well, in the next room anyway..;-)

Cheers

:D

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 08:40 AM

If you really want to help and direct her why all the character assassination. I know reasons have been given but people are giving personal opinions about other peoples issues. Avril may have one or two issues but it's not helped with all the knifes going in one after the other. Help and guidance was asked for and no wonder

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: GUEST,JOHN OF ELSIES`S BAND
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 08:44 AM

Breezy,
       What I meant to say is that we have never requested any person wanting to do a floor spot to call us beforehand. Just be there, and if time allows, you`re on: sometimes to such an extent that we run well over time.
Padders here we come!

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 08:50 AM

El Greko & Greg

"I started this thread to find out why I don't get asked to do many floor spots at folk clubs and I suppose I've been told the answer, although I think that they're all exagerating a bit. Perhaps I should stick to the Karioci evenings, all the fellows cheer me there, especially when I show a bit of boob, I think your all a bit prudish on the folk scene.

There must be other singers out there with the same problem that I'm having - how do you try and get floorspots ?"

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: Roger the Skiffler
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 08:54 AM

You know there's a folk mafia when you find a hobby horse's head in your bed.

RtS
(galloping for cover)

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: GUEST,Amazed
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 08:56 AM

Dave Bryant says "Guest - She dyes her hair black - and she gives all the fellows the idea that she might sleep with them" how dare anyone make such a discusting comment in public. Best advice is leave the club they dont want to help you.

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 09:02 AM

Now I am confused! Is this Dave? Linda? Avril? Lirva? The little devil on my shoulder? Too much for a small brain without a drink yet...Aah, I think I guessed it...or have I? Help!

But I know one thing: When it comes to showing a boob I could compete with the best. It's just that I haven't chosen to do so yet, in case someone cries "unfair competition". Fair-minded, that's me (And bloody fat - Vanessa)

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: Avril Betts
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 09:04 AM

Dave Bryant - are you trying to post as me ?   I can look after myself, mind you I don't mind the bit about the boobs, I've seen you looking at them and then looking to see if Linda noticed you doing it.

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 09:06 AM

Obviously a piss-take. Laugh? I thought I'd never start. :0)

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 09:09 AM

Excellent piss take out of the punch the horse characters, who were REALLY taking the piss out of their nearest and dearest friend

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: Alice
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 09:10 AM

Find a good voice teacher.
Take lessons and practice every day for six months while MEMORIZING a new repertoire of folk songs. Then go back to the club and try it again.

Alice in Montana, USA

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: Micca
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 09:10 AM

Hey Dave, when pasticheing Avrils (or anyone elses) style it is usual to put "" around what you write! and I think part of your post went missing too unless of course you want us to think you are a Roug-looking transvestite with a dreadful singing voice and NO repetoire (except 4th carbon copies of "My Tart will go on") and other songs that consist of no melody line and a single sentence repeated ad nauseum, well good Luck to you!! But if you want to star as aTV get rid of the Beard!1

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: GUEST,2sides
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 09:11 AM

Well if this is just one big windup then all participants can take a running jump. I'm most peeved at wasting my time reading this & worrying about Avril.

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: Ellenpoly
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 09:15 AM

Wow! And here I've been under the impression that everyone is so polite to each other, even in their heavy disagreements. This is the first thread that really aimed at much as personality as performance.
It makes for fascinating reading, which is all I do here, not having met any of you yet personally. Perhaps that's the difference. The veils are down, the faces seen, and voices heard...Still, it does show that mudcat is a microcosm of our world. Things will be said that are hurtful, and one learns what is useful...

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 09:21 AM

Does that mean that I have just PM-d Avril to make a secret assignation with Dave's beard? Aaaargghhh - pass the toilet brush in good Jim Carey style!

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: kendall
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 09:31 AM

As John Wayne would say, "Well   Pilgrim   you   got a   lot of   people    mad at ya."

The thought of someone singing pop songs off key with a bodron would be enough to keep me out of the place.

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: Avril Betts
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 09:36 AM

El Greko, you sweetums, it was me not Dave that got your pm. See you tonight at Herga. Thanks for the offer to put me up tonight, looking forward to hear your songs.

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: Nessie
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 09:39 AM

Not too heavy on the harmony, though!
Vanessa

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: el ted
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 09:45 AM

Wow, the way this thread is going I should be able to sneak in and bag the 100th post in about half an hour!

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 09:52 AM

Only joking Avril - I forgot that I had to logout before I could post as GUEST. You must admit that you do try and show as much boob as possible - we were all joking the other day about bringing some sneezing powder to the club . . . . . . .

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: Bajax
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 09:55 AM

They say that a little confrontation/agression/argument can add piquancy to sex. But if this is somebodys argument with themselves, what kind of sex is this? Kinda looks like slapping the monkey...

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 11:04 AM

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah! You naughty lot!

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: Catherine Jayne
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 11:07 AM

Sex is great...especially with someone you love...or in the next best thing fancy and they love and fancy you....NOT with someone you have stolen off someone else.....Avril is in complete denial about her behaviour I hope she calms herself down before the next festival...its like a dog on heat.

On the singing side....practice lots and learn lots of new material

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: GUEST,Sarah
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 11:08 AM

Rodger the Skiffler, you have made me laugh so much I can hardly type!!!!

The rest of you, I think the humour is too Brit for some.

Cheers
Sarah

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 11:24 AM

I'll tell you what Avril - Linda (she wouldn't trust me on my own with you) and I will give you a lift down to our next session at Stanstead (Kent), and you can sing as long as it's folk club material and you've learnt all the words. You'll also have to promise to dress a little more conservatively than usual - Ted Clark our melodeon player has just had his nth heart bypass and we don't want you raising his blood preasure too much. Perhaps I should find that piccie I took of you singing (? well certainly performing) "Big Spender" at "The Chequers" and send it to Pene Azul - it looks like a dead heat in a zepelin race - I don't think that Khat would call that dirgie ! mind you it could have been more tuneful. There is one advantage in the fact that you hold the words right up to your face rather than lower down though !

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: greg stephens
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 11:27 AM

For the benefit of those of us who dont know the person involved, I think some photos and a sound recording of a song(preferably with bodhran) would be good, so we can make up our own minds.

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 12:55 PM

Khat,
Dog on heat? I had some of those last week when I was in the US on business. Lovely with mustard...

Lighten up everyone, I'm sure Avril or whoever is OK really, just a little naive perhaps.

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: treewind
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 01:28 PM

It seems to me, only from what I've read here, that Avril is perfectly cut out to be a pop singer and not to be a folk singer. If it goes down well at the karaoke nights - well, surely that's the place to do it - what's the problem?

I wouldn't dream of taking my melodeons and concertina along to a karaoke bar or a jazz club, and wouldn't call them the mafia if I played a few morris tunes and jigs there and it didn't go down well.

There are different sorts of folk clubs of course, and I've certainly been to some where Celine Dion covers would probably go down well. As far as I'm concerned, that sort of material accompanied by nothing but a bodhran would have be be done incredibly well to impress me, but that's only because it's not my sort of music.

Anahata

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 01:30 PM

Is this thread for real or is it some kind of a spoof? If it's for real I think these personal comments are getting a little bit over the top and maybe should have been put in pm's???

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: breezy
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 01:34 PM

While I was out coaching Basketball this has moved on.

Will it put bums on seats at Herga tonight?

Can I come round for breakfast?

Hey George, shall we go topless at the Spotlight next week as support for Keith Snodon and call ourselves the 'Who'lda Fought Its'

We always let it hang out at the Legion in verulam Road St Albans every Sunday and this Saturday too in the main auditorium where its open stage with a P A

All performers welcome.

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 01:34 PM

I agree that some of the comments were over the top, GUEST; on the other hand, Avril seems to have responded positively to the well-meant (most of it) criticism. I'll be meeting her tonight at Herga. So, sometimes good can come out of bad...give it a chance.

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 01:36 PM

Personally,I like the personal comments

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: greg stephens
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 01:49 PM

I suggested earlier that this thread should be deleted because I thought it would be very upsetting to the person who started it. However, as it has transpired that the person concerned is perfectly pleased with the publicity she is receiving, I withdraw my objection unreservedly. Let the personal comments continue(the dead heat in the zeppelin race sounds most rivetting).

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: Peace
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 01:51 PM

I am going to say this once: There IS NO FOLK CLUB MAFIA. It does NOT exist. You got that?!

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 02:35 PM

. . . . and if anyone keeps on with these slanders, the godfather's goin' ta send round a coupla of the boys - justa put you right - yeh ?

OK Brucie, but I suppose we all have singers that we would prefer to keep off the list - especially on those nights when we've got a fairly full house and are hoping that they'll all be turning up next week as well. I must admit that I've never been quite as blunt with Avril at a folk club as I was in my first posting on this thread - it's probably more difficult face to face, but I have tried to give her advice - and she's not very good at taking it, so she probably thinks it's just that she's not one of the clique.

She does have a couple of big points in her favour, but they're nothing to do with her singing. While the blokes might stick around because of these, once she starts singing, as Essex Girl said - all the ladies go off to the loo, and most pub facilities can't cope with the rush and we don't see most of them back for half the evening - which is a nuisance if I want to sing a song with Linda.

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 02:58 PM

Getting away from the personal abuse:

1. The reference in the OP to "list" suggests that she is looking for spots at clubs with a staged format rather than singarounds/song circles. As a staged format is normally targeted at paying customers it is perfectly reasonable to exclude prospective floor singers who fail to reach even the low levels of ability expected at most clubs. Some organisers will favour their friends but more often it is simply a case of knowing what the performance will be like and where it will fit best in the evening.

2. The side discussion about phoning for floor spots. This is a sensible precaution if visiting a new club on a guest night. There are a handful of clubs that will book support acts and a few do insist on pre booking spots.

3. If your material doesn't fit with the established artistic profile of the club then, regardless of ability, you won't be as welcome as a performer whose material does.

4. If you piss off the organisers and residents then start again somewhere else.

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 03:11 PM

Organised clubs, festivals, never met this mafia. Been at this game for over forty years. I agree. Does not exist.


Dave

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: Willa
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 05:03 PM

Isn't this thread three days early, Avril premiere?

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: Willie-O
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 05:33 PM

I have just been pissing myself laughing reading this and trying to figure out what the hell is going on in London...someday i may have to go and find out for myself. Avril are you a real person and the person who actually started this thread?   

I have heard "they don't appreciate me, how can I get into the inner circle" a lot lately (and I live in rural Canada). If there is one, you get into it by making yourself generally useful in the myriad of ways that you can help a scene happen--helping with publicity, setting up chairs, learning to do sound, etc etc etc. And taking the opportunity to learn from others. (Even if their advice is rather brusque at times.) I've always found, in the end, most of the best advice I've gotten I didn't enjoy at the time.

How you _don't_ open doors is by assuming it should all be about you and your fabulous talent. Talent is one thing, but even if you have it that is not much on its own. You have to develop repertoire, performing skills (OK, apparently you have some of those), be able to provide appropriate accompaniment, and yada yada yada. A few get by on the basis of talent, but for most of us it's a matter of learning how to contribute to a community, and the music comes along with that.

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: Peace
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 05:40 PM

Listen to Willie O. Carefully.

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: Dead Horse
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 05:43 PM

Sex between two people who really love each other, can be a wonderfull experience...........between six, its fantastic!

P.S. Micca sleeps with the fishes.

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: Hawker
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 06:08 PM

I don't know what to make of this thread, but one thing occurs to me as I read it, Averil, you say you dont like to wear glasses as they make you loook unattractive...... well, if you cover you face up with a sheet of paper, you may as well just cover up half of it with a pair of glasses! Also, from the tone of these posts, it would appear that most of the men are too busy looking at you tits to see whether you are wearing glasses or not- and most of the women don't care!
Hey, like most of the posts say, learn some of the stuff that gets sung at the folk club you go to, especially some chorus songs so that people can join in, when you are starting at this game, it is good to let the rest help you with half of the song, especially if you are not too good at holding the tune, and that will improve too if you persevere. It is probably best to concentrate on one thing at a time too, learn to sing well or play the bodhran well, but not at the same time. I have been playing the bodhran for 15 years and am still in the practising stage! I sing too, but after 15 years still look on myself as a newcomer, some of these folkies have a pedigree rather than a history - and I respect them for that. You dont have to be a big star to start with, you dont have to be a big big star full stop! and as a newcomer try to blend in rather than being larger than life, some of the people getting spots may have been in your position for years and just got to the heady heights!
Folk music is great, in general it is a friendly place, If you really are genuine, think about what you want out of this, is it enjoyment or what? think about your material, and finally be tactful - everybody is doing their best, it might not be to others exacting standards but hey, I never said we were all perfect!
Sing because you love it and love what you sing
Be happy
Lucy

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 06:12 PM

Look Chaps
Bob Copper has just died.
Can we stop this now?
Everybody has the right to perform.
Regards
Ralphie

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: Raggytash
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 06:16 PM

Mr Bryant

You are clearly wasting your valuble talents on this thread (porcine erudition comes to mind) Kindly save your venom and spleen for attacking my good self and my Noble Leige MC Fat.

Oh roll on the duel

Lord Bulstrode de Wraggetache of Colne

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 06:18 PM

Well, Avril chickened out the last minute and did not come to Herga tonight. Some rubbish about the cats being on their own, but I have to say, "El Inglese" did look relieved. It was another great singers' night at the Royal Oak anyway.

Come on, Avril, We're trying to open doors here!

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: breezy
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 06:37 PM

And I took in Mike N at W-Abbey.
Everybody got to do a song,a tune or a poem, 12 floor spots in all
I won a bottle of wine in the raffle!!
moses came too and sang jutland by les sullivan les is his name, its not the french as inlay
She - moses - also won a bottle of wine in the raffle
The W Abbey raffle had 7 prizes, that beats herga's raffle.
the st Albans raffle only has music Cds as prizes so is therefore not to be compared.

Also took out a full page ad in Puddlestone folk Magazine for the 'Windward' where this Friday its Tommy Sands

www.folk4all.net

We remembered Bob Copper

Good night

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 08:24 PM

Voilà!!!! Ce n'est qu'un poisson d'avril!!!!

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 09:11 PM

It is usually a local clique

Pay your dues (i.e. put in the time)

Make connections to a network.

Inside of twenty years you will turning down twenty (on your schedule not theirs) excess gigs a year.

Never, ever, ever, stiff an engagment.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: Avril Betts
Date: 30 Mar 04 - 03:49 AM

It's not just me, there are other people I talk to in folk clubs who complain that they always get left off the list. There's someone called Alec who lives somewhere near me who plays the melodian and sings and says that it's no use putting his name on the list because they never fit him in. Does anyone know about a group called Travelling Folk because I was told that they let anyone sing if they want to. I think they sing somewhere in Kent, but I'd need a lift to get there.

El Greko, I'm sorry about last night but I really did have to do something about my pussie. If I'd known in advance, I could have asked the man in the flat downstairs to sort it out, but he's got a girlfriend and isn't always able to manage it. Anyway I don't think your wife would have let you drive me back to Woolwich.

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: GUEST,sledge
Date: 30 Mar 04 - 04:54 AM

oo-er missus

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: breezy
Date: 30 Mar 04 - 05:39 AM

No, George would not have driven you back to Woolwich.

Shame about your neighbour's problem, pity his poor girl-friend too, having to do without.

Q. Isnt pussy s pelt with a 'Y'?
A. Dont know havent looked lately

Sounds like you've found your soul mate and an accompaniest then.

A a a vril, come she will.

have a nice day.

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: greg stephens
Date: 30 Mar 04 - 06:18 AM

Avril Betts, others have suggested you might be well advised to change your repertoire a bit to make it more acceptable to a folk club. people are extremely said at the momwent at the loss of Bob Copper, and tributes to him will surely be in order. From the range of your interestes described on this thread, I would recommend a few of the Copper family songs which you might relate to: Shepherds Arise, Wop She 'Ad'it Io, Come all Bold Britons, You Semen Bold,Sportsmen Arouse, Now All You Lads, the Old Threshing Song and the Hard Times of Old England.

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: breezy
Date: 30 Mar 04 - 06:22 AM

I think this thread has gone far enuf and ought to be deleted,





































while on the other gland

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: GUEST,Lone Shark
Date: 30 Mar 04 - 06:42 AM

What are your views Ben & Ivor?

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: GUEST,Dr. Quelch
Date: 30 Mar 04 - 06:45 AM

Poisson d`avril? Pas avant le jeudi!

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 30 Mar 04 - 07:02 AM

Come off it Breezy - you've already done some advertising on it - I don't believe for one moment that George is really upset about Avril not turning up at Herga last night, it's not the easiest place to find by public transport.

Avril, you can find a site for Travelling Folk here. If you're talking about the same Alec as I think, I used to give him floorspots years ago when I ran Blackheath folk club. These days he never seems to want to perform even if asked.

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 30 Mar 04 - 07:44 AM

If it was a dead heat in a zepelin race surely she would be singing dirrigable dirges wouldn't she?

Anyway, what do you mean there is no such thing as the folk club Mafia? What are all them violin cases for? Eh?

Just watch it or you will end up at the bottom of the deep blue sea, blue sea, the bottom of the deep blue sea. With a concrete bodhran...

Dave "Fingers" Gnomioni

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: Essex Girl
Date: 30 Mar 04 - 08:10 AM

Just come back to this thread, what's this about Avril & Dave, Khat?. I thought there were several unattached men on the folk scene in this area who would be more receptive. Come on lads, help Avril out, I know at least two of you who couid accompany her without treading on anyones toes.

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: breezy
Date: 30 Mar 04 - 08:18 AM

2 mins Harrow/Wealdstone Station 15 mins from Euston,
2 days from Woolwich Arse n ole































For the benefit of our overseas catters and others who think we've gone and fallen off our trolleys 'ere in the sarfeastof london tarn
let me explain ,

thats a joke on Woolwich Arsenal , the name of the train station to get into London, also where The Arsenal Football club had its origins

Being where armaments were held for major conflicts

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: breezy
Date: 30 Mar 04 - 08:22 AM

its not the toes that are the problem.

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: breezy
Date: 30 Mar 04 - 08:23 AM

its controlling that dave geezer

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 30 Mar 04 - 08:57 AM

John, can't you manage to get all your thoughts together at once so you can put them all in the same posting ?

Linda - you know what shape Avril is - she'd have a hard job getting close enough to anyone to actually tread on their toes - someone as short as Breezy would probably suffocate first ! - he might enjoy it though.

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 30 Mar 04 - 09:10 AM

Look, will someone please tell me where this hobby horse head is supposed to go?

LTS

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 30 Mar 04 - 09:27 AM

If it's male, I wouldn't put in in Avril's bed - she might be encouraged.

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 30 Mar 04 - 09:28 AM

Huh.. that's the last time I look after a strange melodeon case......

Anyone fancy a nice Belgian stew for dinner?

LTS

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 30 Mar 04 - 09:43 AM

What's a Belgian stew ? Actually interested in cooking

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: breezy
Date: 30 Mar 04 - 09:52 AM

Liz, dont joke because I have to say that I feel that there is a situation up here in S-W herts where certain people appear to control happenings and events to the exclusion of local talent, and are openly hostile to others who show enterprise and initiative.


Avril, in all blondness you would be banging your talents against a brick wall should you come over this way, especially on a
Thursday, however is Maidenhead Folk Club, within your radius? el grek sometimes visits there, I'm sure he would like to meet you.

I'm afraid this Friday in St Albans at the Duke of Marlborough the evening is already planned for the visit of Tommy Sands.

Perhaps you could arrange for Dave to bring you over when he is scheduled to appear May and we could experience you for ourselves and share with you our honest opinion and evaluate where your at.

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Mar 04 - 10:06 AM

eyesight probs - don't like glasses - try the new wonderfull invention

Contact Lenses!

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: concertina ceol
Date: 30 Mar 04 - 10:24 AM

I went to traveling folk for the first time about ten days ago. Have to say I thought it was brilliant. They were exceptionally friendly and there was a good selection/rotation of singers. But have to say to anyone thinking of joining in anything - you have to have respect for what is already going on. If the club/session is traditional english then I think the people there have an expectation that singers will sing traditional english. If you go to an irish session, people expect you to sing irish songs. I think it is only polite to listen to what is happening, and then offer something that is appropriate.

I love to sing and I also play concertina for morris. My philosophy has always been morris music stays at the door - people usually want something different inside. I can't believe the number of times I been to morris things where as soon as you get in the bar the "melodeon chorus" plays exactly the same tunes all over again!

BTW travelling folk is spread over the most rural areas of Kent where there is no public transport - a car (and map/compass) are essential!

Good luck with the new songs Avril - listen to June Tabor, Norma Waterson, Eliza Carthy, Niamh Parsons, Kate Rusby, Bill Jones, Chris While, The Copper Family, Brass Monkey etc. etc. etc. - the beauty of folk music is that there is such a huge body of songs available, you are bound to find something to suit you, and that other people want to hear.

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 30 Mar 04 - 11:08 AM

Well you're getting plenty of offers and suggestions Avril old girl. As you work in London - why not try Sharps at Cecil Sharp House (Camden Town tube) - it's on tonight. Linda and I have managed to get from Camden Town back to Charing + (or London Bridge) to catch the last train to Mottingham - so you should be able to make it back to Woolwich.

Incidently Breezy - Avril isn't blonde - her hair is black (although I think she dyes it).

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 30 Mar 04 - 12:37 PM

Well in dog showing there used to be a distinct tendency to judge what's on the other end of the lead.....

This is palliated by going and "showing out" - and Avril m'girl it sounds as if you can manage that. I look forward to bumping into you. S l o w l y.

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: breezy
Date: 30 Mar 04 - 12:42 PM

Perhaps I was momentarily thinking of some else who I remember from my days at the Crypt of St Marys Folk Club in Woolwich.

Memory plays funny tricks at tea time.

Just had me plumbing seen to - new ball and cock - and I got given the 1st verse of the Plumbers song. Its set to the tune of Danny Boy.
Credit to Simon Barnet

it goes

Oh damn it boy, the pipes the pipes are leadking
from tank to tank and down the mouldering wall
My bedrooms wet, the whole house damp and freezing
Tissue, tissue, I've caught a cold an all

there are 3 more verses, anyone interested?

So its Sharps tonight then?

Whose on in July?

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: Rasener
Date: 30 Mar 04 - 01:41 PM

Tell me who is on in in July, then.

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 30 Mar 04 - 05:29 PM

The classic Belgian beef stew is called 'carbonnade' and the best recipe for it I have seen is in Michael Jackson's Guide to Beers of the World Doubtless you can fine it online.

Hi April.

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: Avril Betts
Date: 30 Mar 04 - 06:02 PM

Richard Bridge, and all the rest of you letches out there, I don't want to give the impression that I am an easy "lay", just because I said I am looking to find a soulmate! All I want is a chance to be accepted for what I am, an ordinary person that likes music and likes to sing. And if I like Karioci it doesn't mean I am not suitable for folk clubs, treewind!

I am willing to listen and learn. why don't others listen to me though? Why is it I who has to conform with the establishment and it's silly rules? As far as I can tell so far, I only got cattiness from CatsPhiddle, mortification from Morticia, and letcherous approaches form the rest of you. Except for El Greko and his darling wife who were willing to accept me for what I am...

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 30 Mar 04 - 06:03 PM

Ninety-nine bonk

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: breezy
Date: 30 Mar 04 - 06:10 PM

Not in public, richard please!

Avril, have you heard about greeks bearing gifts? say no more.

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: breezy
Date: 30 Mar 04 - 06:15 PM

Did you make Sharps?
Yes, El Greko and his wife are a genuinely lovely couple.
Richard, you are out of order.
Say sorry.

avril . will you make Maidenhead?

pm Bryant ,but make sure essex girl is there.

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 30 Mar 04 - 06:17 PM

Hi Breezy

I'm just waiting for the other shoe to drop.

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: breezy
Date: 30 Mar 04 - 06:28 PM

Maybe Avril you ought to go to the U s of a where you would be tolerated as they have a more liberal attitude.

Any offers of hospitalty?

El Grek, I'm keeping an eye on you!

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: Avril Betts
Date: 30 Mar 04 - 06:39 PM

Johnikins my cat has woken me up and I couldn't get back to sleep again, so I've logged in on my PC. I couldn't go to a folk club tonight because it's church choir practice on Tuesdays. Guess what - I asked the choirmaster if I could sing Lord of the Dance as a solo and he said yes. I wanted to sing it because Sidney Cartier has died. We went into the main church and I tried with the organ and it was really great.

Is Essex Girl the same person as Linda, if so I don't think she likes me very much. Someone asked me why I don't wear contact lenses - it's because I'm so shortsighted that I need very thick lenses which are made of special glass called high reflective index or something, and they can't make that sort of contact lense. Because of that, I need to get very close to people to see who they are and other women always think that I'm trying to get off with their men when I do.

Better go now my pussie needs seeing to.

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: Raggytash
Date: 30 Mar 04 - 06:41 PM

Avril, Darling,

I have already suggetsed to Mr Bryant that his venom is misplaced and that if he wishes to vent his spleen on anyone he should do so on me, as I have the wherewithal to withstand his monsterous invective.
If you should seek solace and comfort and wish to confront this monster with like minded people (I sing Leonard Cohen songs in folk clubs)may I invite you to the duel between myself, My Leige, MC Fat, Mr (and I use the term loosely) Bryant and some usurper who goes under the pseudonym Klingonman, which will be held in a suitable beer emporium in Whitby during the wonderful extravaganza oF British Folk Music in August. Accomodation can be provided, as I have a luxury caravan available for ALL eventualities

You may call me Raggy :-)

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: Wombat at work
Date: 30 Mar 04 - 06:50 PM

What's going on here then?   Wait till I get hold of that Raggy when I get home from work. More to the point, wait till I get hold of this Avril person. The only person she'll be having a duel with is me if she tries to get her hands on my Raggy.................

Wombat (aka Mrs Raggytash)

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 30 Mar 04 - 06:56 PM

This thread feels a little choreographed to me...

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Mar 04 - 12:09 AM

Had a dog that would sit on a stool sent him to Saudi Arabia and made a fair profit....not to mention the increased revenue from decreased dog-food.

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: GUEST,eliza c
Date: 31 Mar 04 - 01:05 AM

This is without a doubt the strangest thread I have ever seen on the Mudcat. Avril, you have some guts, and that's for sure. Good luck with the practising, and if you want to learn to play the bodhran properly (it's an instrument after all), listen to John Jo Kelly from Flook, or Gino Lupari. I always liked the McPeakes for singing with the drum, but if it's not played well it can be like listening to someone scritching their nails down a blackboard. People in folk clubs tend to have heard a lot of that, and usually have little patience for it, quite rightly really; it's one of the most abused of instruments, and not easy to do right.
What I would do is learn one or two songs, and learn to do them well without accompaniment. Find a way to focus (I hate singing with my glasses on too, but messing around with bits of paper just confuses your body so it's not set up for singing well or performing to an audience, which is surely why you are there). Or get yourself an autoharp and use that to keep yourself in tune. Get a tape recorder of some kind and listen to yourself, visualise how you can improve your performance. People will be kind if you make an effort.
cheers,
eliza
ps-I hope I never get on the wrong side of any of you! :-) I would find it very hard to cope with some of the personal attacks on this thread. Ouch. Peace and love chaps.

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: breezy
Date: 31 Mar 04 - 03:06 AM

Avril, how do you manage to read the words on the screen for your karioci, do you have to put your face close up to the screen? If so what are the punters looking at?

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 31 Mar 04 - 03:57 AM

I think most of it is quite good-natured, Eliza, and a tongue or two glued to the cheek also. But I liked the idea of the autoharp for keeping in tune. I have a couple of people in mind that I will suggest it to.

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 31 Mar 04 - 04:03 AM

Not having had the chance to meet Avril in person but realising she has problems with tune and tempo could I suggest the discrete use of a metronome could be advantageous and if not a metronome then perhaps a taxi home

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 31 Mar 04 - 04:04 AM

Avril - Lord of the Dance was written by Sydney Carter not Cartier. Perhaps your comment:-
"I tried with the organ and it was really great" could have been better expressed - it makes me think of a song in the DT which has the lines:

In church at the organ she'd practice each day
While the minister pumped up and down.
His wife caught him pumping the organ one day
And that's why aunt Clara left town.

Wombat - I think Avril may be a little older than Raggy would desire (after all he was quite rude about my beautiful Essex Girl) - but she is a widow (there's been much speculation about what her husband died of) and seems rather keen to find a steady fellow.

Breezy - I have never seen Avril perform "Karioci" (I thought it was a form of Japanese ritual suicide), but at a local pub which does have this sort of entertainment, the words are projected onto one of those huge overhead screens in thumping great letters - so I suppose she can manage to read them.

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: Avril Betts
Date: 31 Mar 04 - 04:28 AM

Dave Bryant behave yourself. I don't actually play the organ I just sing while the choirmaster does. I'm not a widow, I'm a divorcee and my ex-husband went back to Australia. Your right about the Karioci though, they do use a great big screen but I still have trouble reading the words. I'm not that old either, about the same age as Linda I think.

Eliza, thank you for your nice advice, you sound as if you know quite a lot about singing, I wouldn't think that you have any problems getting on to the singers list.

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: treewind
Date: 31 Mar 04 - 04:53 AM

Avril,
never mind the singers list - Eliza doesn't have any problem getting onto BBC national radio and occasionally the TV!

Yes, she does know a bit about singing...

I think you have a lot of learning to do in several areas.
Learning the words of your songs would solve the glasses/vision problem and would be a good start.

Anahata

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: GUEST,gloria soame
Date: 31 Mar 04 - 05:01 AM

hi avril

don't let those bastards get to you. that dave bryant is so far up himself, his arse is in his mouth. yes, there is a folk mafia, and if you can't get past it, i suggest you join it. drink guinness, learn to sing a song about mining, and model yourself on some obscure singer from northumbria.

more than anything, if that dave gives you a hard time, offer to get him a beer. when youve paid for it, drop by the ladies'and turn it into a shandy. he's so pissed generally, he'll never notice (or at least he hasn't so far). because the mafia is so relentless in its pursuit of the hirsute, as opposed to the cute, i am writing this under a falsetto name.

and don't worry, avril, there's nothing wrong with having big breasts. they're a handy spot to hide the takings from Dave's wallet, at the end of the evening.

all my good thoughts and encouragement to you - keep singing!

gloria soame.

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 31 Mar 04 - 05:03 AM

Dave is alleged to play the organ quite a lot despite his age. Has anyone seen the evidence?

Avril may I say you seem not to have your roots in "folk" or "folk-style" music? I get the impression that you would really rather be signing soft-rock than interpreting material in the folk tradition (even if the material is not from the tradition), and that you do not really follow and understand the milieu you complain is rejecting you.

I have not seen you perform but you do need to tailor your material. "Traditional folk songs" written by say the Rolling Stones or the Who or Bad Company (I do all three) have a time and a place, and need adaptation to become appropriate. You wouldn't wisely have done them at the late Bob Copper's club, where friend of mine was once much sneered at for doing the Cuddy Wren with a non-traditional instrument namely the guitar.

Words are a pain. You need to have enough songs on board to establish "cred" without words before (with due apology) you can wisely use words even as a "prop".

Likewise socialising may be an impediment to acceptance. Other people do not want their performances ignored or interrupted either.

If you are not going to measure at least approximately up to the minimum necessary standard, then to be welcome to perform rather than merely tolerated (most clubs I think still tolerate pretty nearly anything) you need a persona to go with it. Back in the old days there was a chap (to save his blushes, we'll call him Eleheu, not his real name) who was a dreadful singer and guitarist, although he had (not at the very beginning) quite a nice birds' eye maple Washburn. He simply played up to the joshing, and everyone loved him for it. He was almost always welcome, but he did tend only to get short sets!

Indeed if my memory serves me he was a bit of a serial womaniser, so if he is still out there and above ground, perhpas the two of you are made for each other, particularly if you like older men (only trying to help)

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: Avril Betts
Date: 31 Mar 04 - 05:25 AM

I think your just joking Gloria, but I found the bit about peeing in DB's beer quite amusing. Really though, I don't like mining songs and I was born in Charlton so I don't really sound as though I come from the north. I've only ever tried guiness once and it tasted like medicine and anyway I'm trying to lose weight. I usually drink either wine or bacardi, but I have to be careful as I get tipsy very easily.

Sorry Eliza, after Treewind's posting I've realised who you are and that your famous - thank you even more for your advice. The only problem with learning the words is that I find it so hard getting them all that into my brain.

Treewind, what sort of songs do you sing, do you like the same sort of songs that Eliza and lots of other women seem to sing ?

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: GUEST,Jim Ward
Date: 31 Mar 04 - 05:37 AM

Richard Bridge - Who, exactly sneered at your friend for playing a guitar in Bob Copper's club? It certainly would not have been Bob or his family. Bob's one complaint was that so many people thought of them as 'folk purists'. Your posting tends to support this idea when in fact their musical tastes were very diverse. The family songbook, which is still in print, contains just the family songs, but Jim Copper's original songbook, on which it is based, contains all manner of popular songs including Music Hall comic songs, Bing Crosby, Louis Armstrong, The Inkspots and many more, all mixed together.

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: GUEST,Ova Consumption
Date: 31 Mar 04 - 05:40 AM

hi Avril

when i'm feeling blue, i try to write a song to make myself feel better. Ive written one for you (hope you like it!)

as i went out walking one morning in March
i espied a young Avril, her voice young and harsch
beside her dave bryant, all nissed as a pewt
and he asked her if she wanted to
to have a play of his flute.

when they kissed so sweet and fumbling
as they spewed on each other
they went arm in arm along the road
each clutchin each t'other
they went armin arm along the road
til they came to a gutter
and the way that davey looked at er
would make your 'eart flutter

.. i'm still working on it,avril, but hope that this will inspire you and help you understand the genre a little. please pm me if you want any further advice, or to go to a club togther soon.

best wishes

Ova

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: GUEST,Dave Webster
Date: 31 Mar 04 - 05:43 AM

I heard it used to be cliquey down at the Woodman in Lee S.London, on Sundays, but it's got more democratic with songs and such, again recently. Some people have left or something. I must get along again soon. There was a time when it was 50/50 and now it's come back to that. Will anyone be going to see?

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 31 Mar 04 - 06:33 AM

Very good Ova. Sticks and Stones etc - I'm very thick-skinned and there isn't much that will hurt me (except that incident with the ram at Knockholt - OK I was too pissed to realise that it wasn't a sheep).

Avril - Treewind is a feller and plays melodeon.

Dave Webber - is the Woodman still an Irish session ?

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 31 Mar 04 - 06:40 AM

Woops sorry, slip of the tongue - meant Dave Webster

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: Avril Betts
Date: 31 Mar 04 - 06:48 AM

Those words were quite funny Ova, but I don't think that I'd like to be spewed over.

Is there anything on near Woolwich tonight, I want to try and sing somewhere without reading the words.

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: treewind
Date: 31 Mar 04 - 06:50 AM

Avril
I don't sing, but my partner Mary Humphreys does and we perform as a duo, with me playing lots of instruments. We're not as famous as Eliza, but you can see (and hear) what we do HERE

If by "same sort of songs" you mean traditional folk songs, then yes, that is what we both like and perform.

You have to understand that in folk music there is a whole spectrum from traditional unaccompanied at one end of the scale to pop music at the other. In between are the revivalists who do traditional songs with modern instruments and contemporary singer/songwriters, together with blues, rock'n'roll and categories I've forgotten to mention. Some folk clubs are very wide ranging in what they like, others tend to specialize. If you can't tell the difference, keep listening.

I probably know less about karaoke that you do about folk music, but I get the impression it's a very easy ride with the backing carrying you along and the words in front of you so you don't have to learn them. Learning to sing and perform properly is a big step up from that and may be harder work than you think. I've been playing my instruments for variously 25-40 years, yet if I don't practice for a few days I can tell my playing's got worse.

Clubs also vary in the standard of performance they expect. Some are all inclusive singarounds designed to let anybody and everybody "have a go" - others are more like concert venues where people pay for their tickets and expect to be entertained professionally. Most come somewhere between those extremes.

Anyway you've had plenty of invitations, some of which you can take reasonably seriously, so go exploring (cat care and transport permitting) and keep working at the songs, and re-read the details of Eliza's advice, which is really quite excellent.

Anahata

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: GUEST,Concerned of Huddersfield
Date: 31 Mar 04 - 07:13 AM

I've head about you and your slipping tongue Mr Bryant, I feel Avril may have to watch her alcohol comsumption when you are adjacent as she gives the impression she is easily led and you sir are a scoundrel

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 31 Mar 04 - 07:25 AM

I agree with what Anahata said about Eliza's advice - I can think of many other singers who could benefit from it.

Avril - the nearest club is the Tudor Barn at Eltham - youve been there already, haven't you ? Unfortunately it has moved to a Thursday night until May. There is a session at Bough Beech but thats near Hever in Kent.

Sometime there's a session in a pub the other side of Blackwall Tunnel which a few of us go to. The landlord loves folk song and music, but he doesn't have a music license and is worried about being caught by the "PEL police" so we can't advertise it. The other problem is that the Landlady isn't so keen on the music, and is a bit prudish - so I have to refrain from rude songs (which cuts whole chumks out of my repertoire !).

Micca and Khat are friends of the landlord - I'll try and find out if it's on tonight.

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 31 Mar 04 - 08:15 AM

Jim, it was Bob himself. So I am told.

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: GUEST,Dave Webster
Date: 31 Mar 04 - 08:20 AM

I'm not sure if The Woodman's still Irish. Probly is, but better for singers, so I heard - more relaxed and friendly was the message I got.

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: Essex Girl
Date: 31 Mar 04 - 08:40 AM

What's all this about Dave Bryant? I know he goes on a bit but he's quite harmless really. I thought this thread was supposed to be offering Avril advice,(although she doesn't seem to be taking it) not slagging other mudcatters off!!!

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 31 Mar 04 - 08:49 AM

"I've never had roots in folk music - I don't believe in mixing business and pleasure" Bod Dylan.

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: GUEST,Concerned of Huddersfield
Date: 31 Mar 04 - 09:01 AM

Rattlesnakes are harmless provided you don't approach them and try to make their acquaintance

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: Alice
Date: 31 Mar 04 - 09:08 AM

Avril. Tape record your practicing at home, analyze how you sound, like going out of tune, etc. Really, a voice teacher is what you should find, if you naturally don't have good tone or control, you REALLY need someone else to guide you in what to do to get it. Listen, listen, listen, to your own voice on tape in private, and correct what you can.
Memorizing lyrics is very important.

Alice in Montana, USA

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: GUEST,KB
Date: 31 Mar 04 - 09:14 AM

And memorising lyrics gets easier and easier the more you do it.
Alice is right - find a good singing teacher. That will give you a much more impartial judgement than you are likely to find here.

Kris

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 31 Mar 04 - 09:47 AM

Avril

The session is on for tonight there should be quite a few of us going.
Linda and I could pick you up at about 7.45 if you want to go - please PM us your phone number if you want to go - I think I can remember where you live. I think we'll be giving Micca and Khat a lift too. Khat needs the front seat at the moment so Linda can sit between you and Micca in the back.

The Pub's between Stratford and Leytonstone and can sometimes be a bit rough, but the locals seem to like a bit of entertainment. Be careful what you wear - the landlady was quite funny to Linda when she was wearing a low-cut top once - she thinks all women are after her husband - it's actually the other way round - he's ex-navy and "handy" as sailors are always supposed to be.

Manitas and Liz might make it and we're hoping that Richard Bridge will try and get down from Grain. I think that Breezy and El Greko are busy tonight, but they're welcome to try and make it if they can - I think they know the venue - if not they can PM me.

You've got to behave yourself - stay sober and none of that nonsense we got at "The Chequers" - then you can sing a couple of songs.

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: GUEST,fishface
Date: 31 Mar 04 - 09:58 AM

Gosh - that's very gracious of them. Be a good girl and you can sing a couple of songs. Tcha! If that were me I think I'd say sod 'em - in fact I'm getting heartily sick of the sound of some of that little pack. Fascinating thread though - in a horrible sort of a way.

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 31 Mar 04 - 10:45 AM

Fishface - In most sessions, I don't often get more than two songs - especially when it's a music session as well. In a recent club we visited Linda and I were offered 2 songs each if we sang separately but only two songs to gether - they wouldn't let us sing one song each and one together.

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: Avril Betts
Date: 31 Mar 04 - 10:57 AM

Dave - yes I'd love to come with you and Linda as long as she and Khat don't mind. I've PMed you the address and Phone Number.

Fishface - at most of the clubs and sessions that I go to, two songs is all anyone expects - anyway I don't think I could manage more than two without reading the words. I know what Dave means about behaving - I got very drunk at a session recently and rather disgraced myself.

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: GUEST,fishface
Date: 31 Mar 04 - 11:04 AM

Oh! Then perhaps the mafia have got it in for you too!

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: freda underhill
Date: 31 Mar 04 - 11:06 AM

personally, I'm shocked at these poissonous comments. Gloria and Ova, your comments, while well meaning, are insensitive to say the least.

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: Micca
Date: 31 Mar 04 - 11:16 AM

Dave, we are up for this, thanks for the offer of a lift as khatt is not that mobile yet, remember the LandLady of that pub is very volatile tho' and prone to explode without warning, remember the incident with the "Guinness shampoo"? and she had only asked the Landlord for a light!!! see ya later

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 31 Mar 04 - 11:20 AM

I'm game.

(just so long as no-one has a shotgun)

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 31 Mar 04 - 11:24 AM

Richard Bridge is coming too - have you spoken to Liz and Manitas ?

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 31 Mar 04 - 11:44 AM

Freda I think I know who's behind Gloria and Ova - I think their postings were more rude to me than Avril - as I've said I've got a thick skin - and Avril is fairly well-cushioned.

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: InOBU
Date: 31 Mar 04 - 12:37 PM

Hi Avril:
All the nonsence aside, there is a folk mafia, and I know I will get flamed about it, because they are a bunch of well meaning nice folks, who always tend to think of the same people when booking shows. There are a few extreme execptions... here in New York, I have to say, Joel Landy has been good enough to put me on the teli a fair number of times, but it has little to do with audience appreciation. I have brought houses down at my gigs, not bragging, but check the reviews for my band written by folks who actualy heard us. But, the small circle of friends is at work, and frankly, for me, I work too hard busking and flogging my music, as well as working for social change in the US (anti war - pro nomadic rights - anti racialist... etc...) to hang out with the "in crowd" so I just am not on their minds... though sometimes it seems more than that... but to give them the benifit of the doupt. I will go a little farther on the subject of my being overlooked, my complete lack of Pinewoods bookings looks to me like a blacklist.
Good luck and keep singing to the audiences not the bookers.
Larry Otway

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: breezy
Date: 31 Mar 04 - 03:17 PM

Good luck Avril, hope you had your pussies well cared for tonight.

How was David towards you?

Sorry I couldnt come tonight but who knows maybe in the fullness of time I will find out for myself how poor a performer you really are and if you are making a complete idiot of yourself and if dave is really as bad as some people make him out to be.

But then theres always karioci with that spelling where they dont really know much about singing cos they are always usually enibriated.

Perhaps you ought to be just audience for a while , -- like a lifetime.

I dont think Treewind and Macartney can help you, you sound as if you are beyond the pale.pail.?
All the best, hope I havent offended you, but dont come near here, I think the Greek regrets his offers, or he's lost his marbles.

I'm off for fish and chips with lashings of vinegar.

And that Australian ref who let that forward pass go unpenalised which lead to a try against Wales was a wombat.

I'll sort out that Dave Bryant on Sunday 9th May when he comes to St Albans and peforms at the Spotlight club at the Britsh Legion -every sunday this week Keith Snodon

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: Peace
Date: 31 Mar 04 - 04:25 PM

Avril Betts:

In response to your initial question: There was a club that would not hire me or let me participate in open-stage nights, etc. I too felt at the time that there was a 'closed circle' or some sort of 'folk club mafia.' Eventually it struck me: I had behaved like an asshole and was subsequently treated as such. Always check the mirror first. I learned a very valuable lesson from that experience: BE NICE!

Bruce Murdoch

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 31 Mar 04 - 04:58 PM

Agree, Brucie.
From a recent conversation with Mike Nicholson: "The best performers and songwriters are essentially good people". Nastiness, arrogance, selfishness etc can do nothing for your output, only harm it.

I also believe however that very few people are beyond redemption. Most have something good inside them, and the bad elements are mostly parts of some defense mechanism.

Perhaps that's another way of saying I'm a softie, but I don't care.

So I will not condemn Avril. If she was 18 years old, or even 30, and putting herself about because she needs a soulmate, nobody would bat an eyelid. Just because she's North side of 50 (60?) that changes nothing, in my eyes.

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: GUEST,emily rain
Date: 31 Mar 04 - 05:47 PM

avril, i see that you're still reading this thread, which tells me that you are a brave soul indeed. i don't know you personally, but the many venemous posts above make me never want to meet one of your critics. hang in there.

as a member in good standing of my local folk mafia, i'd like to point out that FMs also have a lot of self-examination to do. my ideal clique would be supportive, kind, and fair to everyone, regardless of taste or talent. i know that we do our best here on babinbridge... but i wonder how often we succeed?

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: Peace
Date: 31 Mar 04 - 05:53 PM

El Greko:

I was not making the assumption that such was the case with Avril. It was a thing I did lots of years ago, and I tended to my side of the issue. It was a statement about me, not her. However. the mirror is not a bad place to stsrt. If the answer is not in the mirror, then maybe there is a mafia and she should seek out other venues or clubs.

Bruce Murdoch

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: Hawker
Date: 31 Mar 04 - 06:07 PM

Bonjour Avril its 12.05 UK 1-4-2004 and time to come clean
Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha!
Good One
Cheers, Lucy

Subject: sean gagnier info?
From:
Date: 31 Mar 04 - 07:11 PM

mr. murdoch:

was looking around the web for information on sean gagnier and came across yr posts here. alwasy dug the hell of "33 revolutions" and am very pleased to see you've still got yr hand in it (as it were). i was curious, however, if you might be able to direct me to a source for any info on mr. gagnier. i'm currently working on a project involving he es-disk record label, for whom sean recorded a mostly-unreleased lp in '68 or so. any tips on where i might turn would be most appreciated.
thanks,
byron coley

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: Avril Betts
Date: 31 Mar 04 - 07:23 PM

I don't feel very well at the moment, I've just been sick. I had quite a lot of trouble logging in. Everthing seemed to be going so well. We picked up Micca and Khat and it didn't take very long to get to the pub which seemes quite nice really. There were a few people playing tunes when we got there and we all joined in, Dave playing his guitar and I started off with my bodran, but they were plaing too fast for me, so I used one of Linda's shaky egg things. After a while Dave and Linda sang a song, and we played some more tunes then I sang Lord of the dance and remembered nearly all of it - dave and somebody else, I think it was Richard, played along with me after we'd found the right key. Some men in the corner liked it a lot and bought me a drink. Micca sang a funny song which every one liked and we played more tunes. A bit later I tried to sing Yesterday, but I got the words abit wrong, but two of the men bought me some more drinks. I can't remember much after that, I know that Mike the landlord bought me a drink as well, but I don't remember much else except that the landlady who was a little miserable lady started shouting at me an telling me to go home. We all had to go then and I was sick in Dave's car when we went through the tunnel. I don't think I did anything wrong, but Micca and Dave weren't very pleased with me and Linda called me stupid. I hope I haven't spoiled things.

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: Guy Wolff
Date: 31 Mar 04 - 07:29 PM

I hope all this has worked itself out. I thought Eliza wrote a very nice bit of advice and everyone seems to be trying to stretch .\, so maybe all of this has done some good after all . Good luck . I cant beleave i just read all this .

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: Guy Wolff
Date: 31 Mar 04 - 07:36 PM

PS If i get to London can i play some music with you all . !!! All the best , PPS   I dont realy drink much so your car will be safe with me . Yours , Guy

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: GUEST,emily rain
Date: 31 Mar 04 - 07:57 PM

oh fuck. nevermind.

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 31 Mar 04 - 08:05 PM

Let's just say that tonight was somewhat of a disaster, but I suppopse it was partly our fault. Avril had drunk a few glasses of wine when we picked her up, but she seemed OK. She did quite well with her first song although we all had to prompt her a bit. There were a a crowd of men in the corner who were probably more inpressed with her physical assets than her singing and we didn't realise how many drinks they were buying her. The landlord predictably showed interest as well and ended up having a row with the men who were getting very friendly with her. Later on one of the men, an australian, started singing "My one-eyed Trouser Snake" and she said that she'd learnt it from her ex-husband and joined in with him. When it looked as though she was going to undo his trousers, Hilda the landlady went ballistic and threw us all out.

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: Essex Girl
Date: 31 Mar 04 - 08:12 PM

Khat got it right when she said that the reason that Avril has trouble getting songs into her brain is because it isn't between her ears, and that she should try sticking an earpiece up her twat and she might be able to learn them that way !

I knew that it wasn't a good idea taking Avril over there !

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: GUEST,Anne Croucher
Date: 31 Mar 04 - 08:45 PM

I have read this thread with increasing amusement - having always been the one who stayed sober and decanted the rest off my motor cycle or its side car and onto their doorsteps then went round next day to deliver their amps, guitars,jackets, wallets etc., I have to say that I was not in the least surprised at the reports of what went on last night.

No sense in rolling ones eyes to Heaven - someone is obviously either reliving a mis spent youth, or looking to catch up on what has been missed before it is too late.

It is the first day of the Real New Year here - 2.30 in the morning of 1st April - maybe a few new year resolutions should be made - or maybe you are just going to have to live with someone enjoying life a little too fully for some.

I think I shall just take a little look outside to smell the Spring, and then go to bed - still smiling.

Anne

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: GUEST,Ova Dunne
Date: 31 Mar 04 - 09:30 PM

oh hi avril

i think perhaps it could be time to branch out into some pub poetry. this is always very much appreciated in the folk scene.

best wishes

Ova Dunne

(Poet Lorikeet)

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: GUEST,Billy
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 01:41 AM

Well, I guess it is now April Fools Day and Avril (French for April or even Chaucer's old English, get it?) and all the others are now going to reveal that this was all a big SPOOF!

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: Dipsodeb
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 03:22 AM

Good one Dave and Linda I thoroughly enjoyed it. I am so glad that I knew it was a spoof all along as I definitely wouldn't want to be on the wrong side of your Mafiosso. It does make you wonder though about the reality of some peoples experiences at folk clubs, it happens!!
LOL :o)

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 03:45 AM

"Good one Dave" my arse, he's a bloody pervert, "earpiece up her twat" what the hell is going on, its disgusting.

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 03:48 AM

Whaddayamean, I was propositioned by a SPOOF? Seriously though, it was fun. Even before I was let into the "know". I thought indeed that Eliza's advice was great, I nearly emailed her to give her the gen but then thought "up to Dave".

El Inglese's (Vanessa's) postings and one of Breezy's were mine (you really must change that password, Breezy mate). On the way I got hands slapped for doing so by our diligent moderators (boy, they ARE on the ball!)

For me the best bit was when "Avril" PMed me with a "thank you-come-on" message, before I knew the truth. I kept the faith, thank God!

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: Avril Betts
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 03:55 AM

Perhaps I should spell my name properly - as many of you have guessed it's really:

                                                      April Bêtes


Although as a GUEST pointed out, the French would actually say:


                                                 Poisson d'Avril

Although we would usually say:

                                                   April Fool


I do exist on the Folk Scene though (in both sexes) - or rather various facets of me do - perhaps you don't come across my 40DD bust so often (well I had to keep you fellers interested somehow and give the girls something to bitch about).

Thank you to everyone from Eliza Carthy onwards who gave such excellent advice - if you wonder why you don't get spots or the club organiser looks worried when you walk in the door - then there's a wealth of useful information in this thread, please read it.

Must be off now - my pussie is making demands again !

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: breezy
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 03:56 AM

You mean all this was a wind-up?

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 03:58 AM

Nah, it was real, Breezy - I will explain later

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: My guru always said
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 04:04 AM

Ah, poor Breezy...

As I happen to know someone almost exactly like the Avril described I wondered for a while. Great thread - entertaining and, as you say, could be useful!!

Thanks AllCatsInvolved

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: Moses
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 04:21 AM

And we were all looking forward so much to seeing you at Herga. I was about to say not to worry about your pussie. In my experience, so long as it is not left alone too long it will be OK.

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: breezy
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 04:23 AM

And to think the plug was nearly pulled early on.

did anyone thank Tree wind?


who do you mean guru?


Liza is Paul Macartney's daughter and she does what?

She hasnt asked me for a floor spot, she any cop?

Should I give her one if she does?

And I've booked Dave Bryant for the 9th May, I wonder who'll turn up with him?

El Greko , see you friday for Tommy Sands?

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: Ellenpoly
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 04:29 AM

I am SO GLAD this was a wind-up! I have been following Avril's journey through mudcat, and my mouth hung open a few too many times. But at least brucie will sleep easier knowing that this poor lady wasn't seduced by her singing teacher, I will go back to knowing that you guys are good folk, with the kind of bent humour that appealed to me in the first place..(One of your April Fools' fools)..xx..e

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: GUEST,Ova Le Hill
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 04:31 AM

Dave Bryant, I'll pay for your dry cleaning. my apologies and

best wishes

Ova

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 04:42 AM

Thanks a bunch arseholes for wasting my time & getting me genuinely worried about the lady.

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 04:55 AM

Good for you for worrying, GUEST, that makes you "good people". But don't feel so bad about it. See, I've just been called an arsehole by you, and I am smiling. Follow Ellenpoly's example.

Moses, REALLY! I blush...sort of.

The fact is, like MGAS I know people with elements of Avril in their makeup. And the positive advice that was given by Treewind/Eliza (McCartney! well, that's one you'll never get to your club, Breezy) and others is actually very useful.

So, less arsing and more smiling, please...

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 05:17 AM

No smile. Am cross. Feel no obligation to find it funny - sorry.

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 05:34 AM

Fair enough...no need to say sorry.

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: Damon
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 05:49 AM

ho ho ho

way to go children...is 192 posts in 3 days a record?

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 06:05 AM

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: concertina ceol
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 06:13 AM

this may have been a wind up but we've all met this person!

excellent stuff and a brilliant April Fool!

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: MikeofNorthumbria
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 06:18 AM

A few centuries ago, the alchemists went looking for the Philosopher's Stone, which was supposed to turn lead into gold. They never found it, because it was strictly mythical. But their search turned up lots of useful chemical information along the way.

Perhaps these replies to the mythical Avril may help struggling beginners transmute their leaden repertoire into something more like the heavy yellow stuff. The elixir that can make anyone a star overnight is another myth - still vainly pursued by the alchemists of the music biz. But with good advice, and a lot of practice, all of us can improve, however limited our innate abilites.

Unlike most other kinds of music, folk is primarily about participation. Excellence is very nice when you can get it. But it's not excellence that keeps the folk movement going. Folk music needs its Avrils, as well as its Carthys. And the fact that its Carthys will take the trouble to give its Avrils a few words of advice and encouragement is one of our most precious assets.   

Wassail!

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 06:24 AM

So what do I do with this hobby horse head that's stinking out my cellar then?

LTS

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: treewind
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 06:40 AM

So now we know it was a wind up (I had my doubts, all that stuff about "my pussie" was too ridiculous to be true, and several other clues) - who started it really? Are we going to get the full story?

El Grek isn't responsible but knows what happened and says it was "real".. explanations, please - now it's past 12 o'clock.

Anahata

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 06:47 AM

The "real" statement to Breezy was tongue-in-cheek, because (I think)he too was in the know but pretending he knew nothing.

Dave Bryant and Linda started it. Looking at the earlier postings, I believe several others were in on it from the start. Half way through (and after I was almost propositioned in a PM by "Avril" - thankfully for my marriage and reputation I deflected it) I was brought in on it too, and was given "Avril's" login details. "Avril" postings are in fact by several people, not a single one.

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: Avril Betts
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 06:49 AM

See what I mean? I feel like Anthony Perkins in "Psycho"...

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 06:50 AM

Back as me, wig discarded along with the two melons...

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: greg stephens
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 06:56 AM

Well I was fooled at the start and wrote to Joe Offer asking him to delete the thread. Then I smelled a rat and wrote to him again, withdrawing my plea. A good read, well done chaps, who says April Fools have to be on April 1.

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: Doktor Doktor
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 07:00 AM

Oh spite oh Hell !

Weve had a call from Avril to say she'll be turning up tonight with a delegation from the UK Naturist Federation. Something about "Rite of Spring" on a "floor spot"

Do rather hope its not Breezy & El Grek in the all together.

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: Damon
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 07:08 AM

Treewind, I know a woman who comes out with "pussy" remarks...if ever I went to see her you could guarantee she would mention it, like holding her cat, looking me straight in the eye and asking me if I'd like to stroke her pussy!

The first time, being a cat lover, I didn't even realise what she meant and stroked it. The subsequent times I found it acutely embarassing, and declined the offer as politely as one can in these situations.

These experiences made Avril very real, and scary!

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: Hrothgar
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 07:30 AM

A+

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: Alice
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 09:12 AM

You should have done your prank in the chat room. Waste of people's time to do it on the forum, which shows a lack of consideration.

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 09:21 AM

Alice, perverts don't know the meaning of the word consideration.

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 09:23 AM

I've been keeping a low profile for tha last few hours. Thank you Linda, Khat, Micca, El Greko, Breezy, Richard Bridge, LtS and all the other Catters who helped me (in the words of W S Gilbert) by adding "corroborative detail, intended to give artistic verisimilitude to an otherwise bald and unconvincing narrative". Special thanks to those others who have actually adopted Avril's persona for the odd posting (and are still continuing to do so, it seems).

I will not be held responsible for any laundry bills for the bed-linen of male catters who have suffered nocturnal emissions caused by thoughts of a middle-aged nymphomaniac with a 40DD bust. Similarly I must appologise to Manitas who has been looking for a new venue for a sessions in East London now that we've been kicked out of "The Dog and Lampost".

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: Roger the Skiffler
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 10:13 AM

Now I recognise you, Avril, didn't you used to serve behind the bar of the Slug and Sarrusaphone in Preston Lockwood under your maiden name, Avril Premier? Or was it the Kazoo and Gherkin in Lockwood West?
I never forget a pair of big br-,er blue eyes.

RtS

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 10:19 AM

Hand smacking makes some feel superior. Correcting people is what some do best.do us a favour and stop being so smug in yer perfect posts.you no who you R

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: treewind
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 11:07 AM

Well done, Dave. Cunning stunt....

Anahata

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 11:15 AM

Just got there ahead of me, Anahata...
By a year

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: InOBU
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 01:19 PM

Bravo... may you live through out the year, like Christmas for Scrooge, Well done Avil, the spirit of tom foolery past present and future. Cheers Larry

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: breezy
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 01:50 PM

From Scotland

cunning what, did you say Anahata?

You mean I was in on it?
thanks for covering for me chaps.

Who is this Macarthy person anyway?
She a folkie?

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: Peace
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 01:55 PM

NOCTURNAL EMISSIONS: That's the answer to my virginity problem. What a f#ckin' thread. Yes!

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: Peace
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 04:26 PM

Avril Betts: Sucked me in. (Please allow me to rephrase that.) I was taken in by the thread. A work of art. Next year--watch it!

The Phantom

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: jacqui.c
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 04:43 PM

Good one people = really cheered me up this week. My neighbours must have wondered at the loud cackles coming from my place.

Liz - can't you find a way to cook the hobby horse's head - they make brawn from pigs heads - anybody got any suggestions?

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: Blowzabella
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 05:13 PM

I found it a good read but confess, I was wondering throughout how someone could play the bodrhan AND hold up song words at the same time...!

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: breezy
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 05:29 PM

Blowzabella me hearty

Avril sits and has the words on the table but as she leans forward ....and sometimes some silly bugger makes the words fall to the floor then Avril has to lean even further forward.
The organise is a slim, middle aged woman and is profoundly jealous of Avril's attributes .

coming back from Scotland tomorrow

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: GUEST,Anne Croucher
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 05:58 PM

One thing I have not yet worked out - is there really a song called my one eyed trouser snake or was it just for dramatic effect?

Still smiling

Anne

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 06:05 PM

I daresay there probably is... there is definately a Monty Python song with that phrase in it - it's their Noel Coward parody, 'Isn't awfully nice to have a penis'.

LTS

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: Guy Wolff
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 09:49 PM

Skunks one and all !!!! I should have known but I didnt . ! I still want to come play music with this gang anyway . i bet I could hold music sing and play spoons at the same time while playing a bass drum with a foot . Some club would put up with it . maybe not . Happy April Fools day . Swine ><><><.. Yours guy

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 06:19 AM

I'm sorry that this thread coincided with the sad news of Bob Copper's death. While I did think of stopping it, this was planned some time ago, and I like to think that Bob himself would have enjoyed the joke. I'm sure that he would have agreed with much of the excellent advice given to Avril and would have probably provided some himself.

I'm sorry that I forgot to thank Jeff (Pene Azul) and Joe and the clones for not pulling the plug on the thread before it's finale.

I hear that some of the women's postings have ecouraged Avril to embrace feminism, unfortunately the conflagration caused when she burnt her collection of bras, took the London fire service two hours to get under control. It took the hunky firemen even longer to get Avril under control!

"My One-eyed Trouser Snake" is one of the songs that Barry Humphies (aka Dame Edna Everage, Sir Leslie Patterson) produced for one of his earlier personas: Barry McKenzie an Australian in London. He wrote a whole lot of poems and songs including "Chunder in the old pacific sea" and popularised such Autralian terms as "Technicolour Yawn".

There's a wonderful song where a stuck-up englishman asks him why he looks upset and his answer goes somethink like:

So I told him straight, I'm Ozzie mate,
And I'm bent on getting plastered.
For the beer's all crook, and the girls all look
Like YOU, you pommie bastard !

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: GUEST,Dave Webster
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 06:30 AM

Ha ha! What a cracker! Can you sing it for us then? Sunday?

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 06:44 AM

I don't know all the words, but Avril does and (with a fellow to demonstrate on of course) performs a whole lot of enteresting actions. Strangely enough she seems to have no trouble remembering the lyrics - perhaps the remarks from Khat and Essex Girl about how things get into her brain might be relevant here. Mind you I don't know what she'd want in return for teaching you . . . . .

Seriously there seems to be a version posted here.

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: breezy
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 07:12 PM

I see that your warming to your theme in readiness for your forthcoming, - nay you've lost count after all these years - visit to St Albans.

Will 'she' be putting in an appearance??

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: GUEST,eliza c
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 10:35 PM

That's it, I officially don't get it. Chatrooms. Oh well, back to the day job.

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: Coyote Breath
Date: 03 Apr 04 - 12:05 AM

Once in Chicago I got hired to perform in a club, union scale. Went to the club. No one there but a couple of guys wearing shiny suits and gold rings with big diamonds. They kept to them selves, so did I. Did three sets, got paid. Did this for three or four weeks. Came to the club one evening. It had a new name. Same guys. Did my thing, got paid. This went on for three or four weeks. Came to the club one evening, it had yet another name. I played in five or six clubs that year, all in the same location. Never could figure out what was going on.

CB

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: Shimbo Darktree
Date: 03 Apr 04 - 11:13 AM

Bugger me (expletive only, people!) I have not been on the 'cat for some days. An acquaintance (formerly a friend!) told me that I should read this thread when I got home. No names, but he needs a jolly rogering for this!

And I was all prepared to offer Avril a spot in an Aussie folk club, where she could stand on her head, if she wished ... in fact, I'd encourage it (just so long as she didn't sing). I have a pussy as well, so I know how she feels (this will come as a shock to those who know me).

Great thread ... it has stopped me playing Diablo II for over an hour, and that is a wonderful achievement. Brilliant effort.

***THINKS useless pricks ... but I can't say that ... I'll be called a bad sport ... grrrrrr ...***

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: Hrothgar
Date: 04 Apr 04 - 07:28 AM

There I strode down Earl's Court Road
When into a pub I was lured.
"Where ya from?" says a nosey Pom
As I sipped the amber fluid.
So I told him straight, I'm Ozzie mate,
And I came in here to get plastered,
But your beer tastes crook, and the sheilas all look
Like YOU, you Pommie bastard !

Rule, Britannia! Marmalde and jam, etc

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: breezy
Date: 04 Apr 04 - 08:16 AM

Dear eliza, please

dont give up the day job,

See you outside the Golden Lion mid-night with mum and dad as usual again?

must stop meeting like this.

Fancy a gig?

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: matai
Date: 04 Apr 04 - 08:56 AM

I feel like I've just left some kind of horror story. Do some of you guys dislike large breasted women who can't see or sing as much as come's across....and the advice it went on ad nauseum. No wonder the poor girl was sick. She'd injected so much stuff from you all that she had to spew it out, even if she was just a figment of your imaginations. You could at least have had a disclaimer about cats or pussies not being harmed for this production but then of course no one would have believed it right from the beginning. I'm so glad I don't live in London...especially in the 50's when this novel seems to be set....yuk is all I can say...here's to women's liberation when it finally arrives. Next time choose a bloke. Now I have to go and spew. What horrifies me is why I stayed so long. I think I was waiting for the murder.
matai

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: breezy
Date: 04 Apr 04 - 09:26 AM

So it worked.
Nobody is stopping anyone re-dressing the balance.


Avril was a child of '47 but underwent extensive reclamation and re-invention by a computor wizz kid, which put a 45 year old in the body of someone much older and 40DD into something much smaller.

She is of our times.

I know there are some of you who empathised with her.

Meet her on Sunday 9th May,at the St Albans,'Spotlight'Folk-song club

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 04 Apr 04 - 01:00 PM

There seems to be a huge amount of point-missing going on here.

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Apr 04 - 01:18 PM

Look, I've just bloody sick of it. Whoever suggested that Avril used a Metrognome had better watch out from a leter from the species relations board.

What have all them poor Metrognomes done to deserve this treatment? All they did was build the Paris underground railway. They are my cousins after all...

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: GUEST,Cardiff Student
Date: 15 Apr 04 - 06:40 AM

Now I'm really confused.

I met Avril at Miskin at Easter. I'm sure it was Avril (although I'd been drinking)as there was a Mudcat(c)badge on her ample bosom.

It did seem however that the badge got past around, as I later saw it being worn by one or more men.

Does this raving houri pass on her official Mudcat(c) badge to all her conquests?

Can I join the clan. I have been known to beg on bended knee for a woman of ample volume

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 15 Apr 04 - 07:36 AM

Since Linda and I forgot to pick Avril up from Eltham in SE London, she didn't actually get to Miskin - see the entry in that thread. I gather that she had a very satisfactory Easter though, but I did hear that the fellow's had to take a rest cure though. I just thought it might cheer her up to know that her badge had been seen around Miskin.

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 15 Apr 04 - 02:25 PM

Er - I thought there were already a couple of constituent parts of Avril in Eltham??

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: Eric the Streetsinger
Date: 15 Sep 04 - 01:40 PM

Six months later-
Read the thread with my mouth agape-
Damn I wish I lived in England- you
folks really know how to have a good
time.

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: Scooby Doo
Date: 15 Sep 04 - 01:48 PM

We try and do our best.
Avril badge was seen around Miskin on several occasions,was'nt it Dave!!!!!.

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Sep 04 - 01:50 PM

Refresh

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: Eric the Streetsinger
Date: 16 Sep 04 - 02:52 PM

I think someone ought to create "Avril" and take her on tour. Can she
possibly be any worse that Britney Spears?

Subject: RE: Is there a folk club mafia ?
From: GUEST,Mike, Halifax UK
Date: 16 Sep 04 - 02:56 PM

Just spent half an hour reading through this thread and LOL on more than one occasion. Reminded me of real folk characters I have met and enjoyed. Perfect.