BS: Another reincarnation story.

Subject: BS: Another reincarnation story.
From: Little Hawk
Date: 29 Apr 04 - 09:52 PM

No surprise to me. I know about this stuff already. Check it out at:

http://www.unknowncountry.com/news/?id=3724

Subject: RE: BS: Another reincarnation story.
From: Rustic Rebel
Date: 29 Apr 04 - 10:07 PM

So is it really reincarnation or our lives multidementional?
Are we actually living from the past or are we living several lives co-existant?
My belief leans toward the aft.

Subject: RE: BS: Another reincarnation story.
From: katlaughing
Date: 29 Apr 04 - 10:23 PM

Thanks for the link, LH. Of course this kind of thing has long been acknowledged in places like India.

Our youngest daughter had never been to Boulder, CO and had never known any of her grandfathers when we went there when she was about three. While driving down one of the main streets, she told us all about how she had lived there with her grandfather.

RR, good question. There certainly could be different realities/dimensions, but I believe we are on a spiral of incarnations, raising our consciousness with each progression and from what we've learned from each experience. To me, the Essence of oneself inhabits one body/incarnation at a time, though may astral travel to other realms, always, one would hope, returning to that body until time to pass on to the next incarnation. For the Essence/Soul to exist in several different concurrent realities would seem very scattered and non-progressive, imo.:-)

katwhooncewasursula:-)

Subject: RE: BS: Another reincarnation story.
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 29 Apr 04 - 11:23 PM

Curious quote KittleKattle - "never knew any of her grandfather's".....bad breath....sick humor....wet-pampers.....inheritance money?????

What possision of GrandPa did she not know?

Inquiring minds want to know!

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

Subject: RE: BS: Another reincarnation story.
From: mack/misophist
Date: 29 Apr 04 - 11:37 PM

Extrordinary claims require extrordinary proof, and very careful investigations. As far as I know, no properly investigated reincarnation case has stood up to careful examination. And really, investigations by true believers don't count. They don't want to disprove it.

Subject: RE: BS: Another reincarnation story.
From: Amos
Date: 30 Apr 04 - 12:03 AM

The desire to disprove is abundant, mack.

This is on the surface of it a strong argument for prior familiarity with the details. The referenced page,m though, is woefully short on procedural data, so there is no assurance that there was any rigor to the research or the process of discovering his memories aligned with external "objective:" history. They leave the believer to assume the discipline is there, which is really unfortunate. If they had documented every step of the process it would be much more convincing.

Kat and Garg are both right -- the kind of reincarnate memories you are likely to encounter are thrillingly indicative of past lives and are also ridiculously full of holes from any rigorous perspective. Too bad. Maybe they are both true!

I have a lot of personal certainty that Kat's model is precisely correct, but I am not about to try and sell that notion to someone who isn't so inclined, anymore than I would try to sell a V8-Corvette to a white-haired granny.

A

RR: Your question is a good one. It is purely a matter of degree whether the individual is (a) bound down to an individual body (b) bound in to an individual viewpoint that transcends from one body to the next or (c) is capable of transcending identity to the point of Being multi-dimensionally through time past and future, as you describe. These are not contradictory models, they are gradients of the same evolution.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Another reincarnation story.
From: GUEST,Clint Keller
Date: 30 Apr 04 - 12:07 AM

There was a book a few years back named something like "20 Cases Suggestive of Reincarnation".

As I recall the author said that he hadn't proved reincarnation, but that he had enough evidence to show that the subject was worth taking seriously, and worthy of further investigation.

clint

Subject: RE: BS: Another reincarnation story.
From: Cruiser
Date: 30 Apr 04 - 12:19 AM

Little Hawk,

Surely, you don't believe this stuff! This does not fit in any side of the brain, even in the creative, right side.

But, (sigh) I guess if letting your mind "wander" like this helps it be creative so you can create important "treasures" like "Dipwollow" well....

Keeping an open mind is important, but when opening it don't let ALL the smarts fall out!

Cruiser

Subject: RE: BS: Another reincarnation story.
From: Amos
Date: 30 Apr 04 - 12:21 AM

Cruiser:

All I can say is, be prepared for an orful surprise.

There is nothing smart about the "man-from-mud" model of existence, IMNSHO.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Another reincarnation story.
From: GUEST,John O'Lennaine
Date: 30 Apr 04 - 12:24 AM

Rustic Rebel,
Time as we understand it is a man-made invention.
There is no reason to believe that the cosmos behaves according to man-made rules.
For all we know, everything that has ever happened and everything that ever will happen might all be happpening in this instant, right NOW, which means, I suppose, that time operates in a sort of a sideways direction, rather than forwards and/or backwards, eh?

John

Subject: RE: BS: Another reincarnation story.
From: katlaughing
Date: 30 Apr 04 - 12:40 AM

John, that sounds like a bit like a chaotic stasis.:-)

anymore than I would try to sell a V8-Corvette to a white-haired granny. And, why not?! Esp. if she's wearing purple!

Subject: RE: BS: Another reincarnation story.
From: LadyJean
Date: 30 Apr 04 - 12:51 AM

If someone was regressed into a past life and started speaking Basque, or Cornish, or some similar obscure language then I'd believe them. Otherwise, I figure they've been coached, or they've seen a movie or read a historical novel, or maybe a documentary.

Subject: RE: BS: Another reincarnation story.
From: LadyJean
Date: 30 Apr 04 - 01:35 AM

According to the "Weekly World News", George W is the reincarnation of King Bushwa Lyingsack Ushet of the kingdom of Atlantis. Maybe there is something to this reincarnation thing after all.

Subject: RE: BS: Another reincarnation story.
From: LadyJean
Date: 30 Apr 04 - 01:37 AM

For those of you who don't live in the U.S.A. "Weekly World News" is an American tabloid, that focuses on improbable stories, like the Bat Boy, or the alien who advises presidents, though not Bush.

Subject: RE: BS: Another reincarnation story.
From: Ebbie
Date: 30 Apr 04 - 01:54 AM

LadyJean, is that one of those with the hilarious headlines of features inside? Like 'Life after Death- GUARANTEED!'

It really hit my funny bone when I saw that in the checkout lane, because if there is no life after death, who are you going to collect from?

Subject: RE: BS: Another reincarnation story.
From: jacqui.c
Date: 30 Apr 04 - 02:18 AM

This comes down to a matter of faith. The arguments rehearsed could be used for any world religion. It isn't possible to prove or disprove any of the theories or beliefs - they are either accepted or not.

I have had instances of 'knowing' something that I could not possibly have experienced in my lifetime - possibly a past life memory? I'm not discounting that but, at the same time, I won't say for sure that's what it is, because I can't prove it. My belief is that we live many lives but why and for what purpose I don't know.

Subject: RE: BS: Another reincarnation story.
From: GUEST,John O'Lennaine
Date: 30 Apr 04 - 02:59 AM

If there is a supreme intelligence overseeing all of this, then there is no reason to expect its motivations to be logical to us.
There is no reason to expect any of us to understand anything of what it does.
This is where belief and faith come into their own.

If, on the other hand there is no supreme intelligence at all, then there is even less reason to expect to be able to fathom the great mysteries, since there are none.

Now then, where was I?

John

Subject: RE: BS: Another reincarnation story.
From: Jeanie
Date: 30 Apr 04 - 03:53 AM

I'm not suggesting any kind of answer here, just wondering out loud: On one level, we humans (and all created things) are unique and individual and that is something to celebrate in ourselves and others, but, tantalisingly, we have glimpses (or more) of a different reality, in which we are All One. There seems to be a great drive in humans to assert their individuality, but I do wonder sometimes whether on a level of soul/spirit, it is our collectiveness and oneness which is paramount. We like to think of ourselves as progressing, maybe from one physical life to another, but perhaps that is only one slant on what could be happening. Maybe the individuality on the earthly/bodily plane does not exist in the same way on spiritual planes ? Maybe there is a kind of "pool of spirit" from which we emerge as individuals and return to, both whilst inhabiting this earth in our physical bodies and when we do not have a body to live in ?

I feel it is very possible to tap into what has been described as a "collective unconscious". I have experienced this many times when "becoming" another person when rehearsing and acting on stage. These experiences could be 'explained' in many ways: a tapping into an otherwise hidden part of our own individual selves; a recollection of a past life experience; contact being made with the spirit of a person who has died and is inhabiting another plane of existence; a tapping into a collective pool of experience... To me, it hardly matters what label one puts on it. It is a most wonderful thing, to be treasured when it happens.

- jeanie

Subject: RE: BS: Another reincarnation story.
From: Partridge
Date: 30 Apr 04 - 04:14 AM

Jeanie, I like your wonderings very much.

I too am not going to attempt an answer, but here are some of my wonderings. What if our lives here on the earth were a sort of learning experience - going to school if you like. We are here to learn how to cope with some sort of suffering to help us to grow spiritually. Our Souls live forever and our bodies are the shells we used to live our lives in this earthly realm. Our souls are pure love and part of The Creator. We judge ourselves when we die by the way we have treated our fellow humans, if we learn our lesson we progress to a higher realm, if not then we have to come back at a later stage and have another go.
I believe that the soul rests in your conscience. those that have one are perhaps more spiritual than those without.
I think that we should love more, that is, each other, the planet and the Creator.

love

Pat xxxx

Subject: RE: BS: Another reincarnation story.
From: jacqui.c
Date: 30 Apr 04 - 04:52 AM

Kendall here. What this boils down to is simply this; either you believe or you don't. No one can say they have the answer because no one really knows.Disagree all you want but you don't have the right to make statements such as..letting your brains fall out. That is just arrogance.

Subject: RE: BS: Another reincarnation story.
From: GUEST,Partridge without cookie
Date: 30 Apr 04 - 05:17 AM

look here

Have a look at the above link, there are some more reincarnation stories, some with scientific evidence

Pat xx

Subject: RE: BS: Another reincarnation story.
From: Escamillo
Date: 30 Apr 04 - 05:26 AM

This makes me wonder about a bizarre idea. Is the humankind really making some progress? Are we spiritually superior (in average) to our ancestors, or are we worse, more unmerciful, more cynical ?

It would be possible that one day, that Supreme Intelligence could look at our Earth, declare us a complete failure and leave us alone.

For now, un abrazo
Andrés

Subject: RE: BS: Another reincarnation story.
From: GUEST,John O'Lennaine
Date: 30 Apr 04 - 05:52 AM

Escamillo,
Interesting scenario.
Alternately, the Supreme Intelligence might look down on humanity one day and say "Well, they've finally gone through it all and reached the final stage" (or the highest plain, or whatever) "the job's done."
What then?
Is it the getting there that counts, or the being there?

John

Subject: RE: BS: Another reincarnation story.
From: Jeanie
Date: 30 Apr 04 - 06:03 AM

Or, John, just to put another tantalising slant on it, are we already 'there', have we always been 'there' and just don't (always) see it ? Is 'there' here ?

- jeanie

Subject: RE: BS: Another reincarnation story.
From: GUEST,John O'Lennaine
Date: 30 Apr 04 - 07:34 AM

Fair comment, Jeannie.
Buddha is said to have stepped back from entering Nirvana when he achieved enlightenment, choosing to continue in the world and teach others how they can do it too.
Maybe that's the whole point of it. Maybe he actually did go into Nivana by staying right where he was.
I honestly can't see the point of achieving neverending etherial mindless bliss, but as I think I said earlier, the logic of the omniscient is not made of the same stuff as my logic's made of.
(At least I think I said something along those lines)

John

Subject: RE: BS: Another reincarnation story.
From: Amos
Date: 30 Apr 04 - 08:11 AM

Amazon offers these, and there are a good many others on the subject available. It is worth noting that if you consult all the inhabitants of the planet, a huge majority of them will be in the camp which supports the belief of the individual as a spiritual entity which survives death. The Western notion of death is actually an anomalous minority opinion.

A

OLD SOULS : Compelling Evidence from Children Who Remember Past Lives by Thomas Shroder
Children's Past Lives : How Past Life Memories Affect Your Child by Carol Bowman
Return From Heaven : Beloved Relatives Reincarnated Within Your Family by Carol Bowman
European Cases of the Reincarnation Type by Ian, Md. Stevenson
Life After Life : The Investigation of a Phenomenon--Survival of Bodily Death by Raymond Moody

Subject: RE: BS: Another reincarnation story.
From: Jeanie
Date: 30 Apr 04 - 08:39 AM

Here's another one: "Life Before Life" by Helen Wambach. I don't know if it is still available (my copy was printed 1979).

- jeanie

Subject: RE: BS: Another reincarnation story.
From: freda underhill
Date: 30 Apr 04 - 08:47 AM

One of my daughters, when she was aged around three, said she had been on fire and burning. Why?

Subject: RE: BS: Another reincarnation story.
From: Amos
Date: 30 Apr 04 - 09:21 AM

Probably because she had been.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Another reincarnation story.
From: Little Hawk
Date: 30 Apr 04 - 11:19 AM

Exactly. She had been on fire...in another existence, in another place and time.

You can't destroy energy. Life is a form of organized energy, and some of us call that energy "the mind" or "the emotions" or "the nervous system" while others call it "the soul"...we call it all of those, and it is all of those. That energy builds a body, following conception, one cell at a time inside the womb or the egg (or from a seed, etc.) until it has a fully developed body through which it is capable of living a physical life. It then is a living, physical being of the many types we are all familiar with...such as a human, an animal, an insect, a plant, a lichen, etc. More highly developed energy intelligences build more highly developed bodies. Obviously a human being or a chimpanzee are operating at a higher level of awareness and independence than a geranium, for example.

But a body is subject to injury, illness, aging and death. The intelligent energy that built that body and makes it alive is NOT subject to injury, illness, aging, and death. When a body is injured beyond repair or worn out the energy leaves it and the body rapidly decays. The body is literally built in the image of the intelligent energy (soul-mind) that informs it, permeates it, and surrounds it...but when the body becomes useless as a vehicle, then the energy departs from it. There is some scientific evidence to support that...in that there is a small, measurable decrease in body weight at the time of death which has been observed and recorded quite accurately. Why there would be such a change in weight I don't know (not knowing the exact nature of the mechanism involved), but it indicates the departure of the energy-soul-mind at that time.

You can SEE the energy-soul-mind leave something when it dies...and then you just have an inert body lying there, devoid of life. What left it? Life, personality, emotion, thought, mind, will, desire, love, affection, reaction, passion....ALL those things we identify with life itself...and all those things are the soul which does not die. It's a highly organized, highly intelligent and purposeful energy, and it will build a new body as soon as it is ready to.

People who are vehemently disbelieving in such things are so...not because they're being scientific or particularly rational about it...but merely because they're holding to an established set of beliefs and opinions that they are already comfortable and familiar with. Period.

Everyone naturally defends the beliefs they are already holding against beliefs which contradict or add to those. It's human nature.

Cruiser, not only do I believe in reincarnation, but it's as obvious to me at this point as the fact that sidewalks are normally made out of concrete or that frogs hop. That's because I'm familiar with the concept and accustomed to it. Your reaction is because you're not, I would assume.

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: Another reincarnation story.
From: Kim C
Date: 30 Apr 04 - 11:35 AM

There are some things too incredible for our petty human minds to comprehend.

When my friend Lisa's little girl was 3, she talked about her "other brother" and her "other grandpa." It freaked Lisa out.

When I was very small, I was fascinated by pictures of Native Americans in one of my brother's books. It was as if I had known them. I can't explain that now.

And sometimes you meet someone you've never met before, and it's like you've known them forever.

I took to playing the violin very easily, as if I had done it before. One time when I was practicing, I got frustrated with the music, and the thought popped into my head, "that's not how I played it before." But it was a new piece, one I didn't know.

I can't say with complete certaintty that I believe one way or the other, but I can say I certainly believe in the possibilities.

Subject: RE: BS: Another reincarnation story.
From: Amos
Date: 30 Apr 04 - 12:01 PM

(There is some scientific evidence to support that...in that there is a small, measurable decrease in body weight at the time of death which has been observed and recorded quite accurately.)

I am not sure this is true, LH -- there was at one time a scintific-sounding assertion to this effect, but it was debunked as having been acquired through highly subjective assessments. The experimenter was McDougall, and a brief essay on his experimental validity can be found at http://www.snopes.com/religion/soulweight.asp.

But the fact seems to be that there is no weight to consciousness and it is not energy in the usual sense, but an originator of and operator of energy. I doubt it weighs anything in itself, other than what it may decide to weigh! This is like expecting the driver of a car to have steel parts, if you see what I mean.

Regards,

A

Subject: RE: BS: Another reincarnation story.
From: Little Hawk
Date: 30 Apr 04 - 12:15 PM

Yeah, that sounds about the way I would see it too, Amos. It seems highly unlikely that consciousness would possess weight, and it is futile for debunkers to demand physical proof for that which is not physical in the first place...yet this is what they seem to want.

Bizarre, when you think about it.

Life cannot be described solely in terms of physicality.

I think the great mystery that has eluded the reductionists is this: physical reality (as we perceive it) is an aftereffect of non-physical intelligently directed energy. And when you look at the physical very closely (at the subatomic level) you eventually find....there is nothing solid there at all, just whirling vortices of organized energy.

The ghost built the body, not the other way around. And that is why the body dies, and passes away. It's a temporary, artificial construct. It's a mask, an appearance, an illusion. But we perceive it as solid and real as long as we are in it...and best of all, it allows us these glorious adventures in mortality and limitation. You can't have a good game unless you set rules and limitations. Your body is the piece, and life is the giant chessboard. When the game is over, you put the board away until the next game. You are the consciousness which invented the game, made the rules, built the board and the pieces, and continues to live long after the game is done.

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: Another reincarnation story.
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 30 Apr 04 - 12:15 PM

What I'd like to know is what compels me to read through these threads when I know they're going to churn my guts. I can't seem to stop myself. Was I Job in a previous existance? Is it that I unable to appreciate I have been allowed a view into a parallel plain where no matter how unsound the logic the inhabitants will gleefully run with it? Does the defination of science have an alternate here? So many questions, so little beer.

Subject: RE: BS: Another reincarnation story.
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 30 Apr 04 - 12:18 PM

And why can't I type?

Subject: RE: BS: Another reincarnation story.
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Apr 04 - 12:20 PM

Dear me..as my old man used to say "what a load of old boots!"
Some people would believe anything. I have this bridge I'd like to sell......

Subject: RE: BS: Another reincarnation story.
From: Amos
Date: 30 Apr 04 - 12:25 PM

I suggest you not get too close to discussions like this one, Guest -- you're clearly locked into the Mud wing of the universe. Enjoy your time there.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Another reincarnation story.
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 30 Apr 04 - 12:29 PM

Amos always pulls that ad hominem thing Guest,. Your dad was right.

Subject: RE: BS: Another reincarnation story.
From: freda underhill
Date: 30 Apr 04 - 12:39 PM

..what compels me to read through these threads when I know they're going to churn my guts..

its your unconscious desire to digest the truth, BigpinkLad!

Subject: RE: BS: Another reincarnation story.
From: Amos
Date: 30 Apr 04 - 12:40 PM

Well, I didn't think the comment about Boots was exactly germane, reasoned, articulate or persuasive, Pink Lad. Did I miss some intelligence hidden deep in one of those boots? And let me add that it was his ad hominem remark which first derailed the discussion.

If either of you have something articulate to add, please do!

A

Subject: RE: BS: Another reincarnation story.
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 30 Apr 04 - 12:52 PM

I may not be capable of articulating well ;o) My quest for the truth is sometimes ongoing, genuine and sometimes tortuous, but all I ever ask is for sound evidence and perhaps not to have to wade (again) through so much 1 + 1 = 8,000 stuff. And fewer insults when I disagree would be nice. (Not from this forum, in particular, generally you're all quite polite, even if you are completely mad ;o)

Subject: RE: BS: Another reincarnation story.
From: Ellenpoly
Date: 30 Apr 04 - 12:54 PM

I just KNOW I've read this thread before!


I tend to agree with Kendall on this one. If you choose to believe, or at least open yourself to the possibility of believing, so be it. Of course this is a lot easier if you've had some kind of experience that seems so familiar but you can find no explanation for it.(Personally, I've experienced this on more than one occasion, and haven't a clue as to what it means.)

Little Hawk, you speak with such certainty because this is a part of your belief system. I only worry when you end sentences with "Period". It seems to be said with the kind of finality that brooks no opposition. I know that's not the case, and that you really like explaining at length how and why you have come to the conclusions you have.

Being open-minded is sometimes being open to those who will never be able to agree with us. I hope that the people who read through here are doing so as much because it's a subject they find interesting, rather than a subject that they intensely dislike and resist so much that they must express only that...xx..e

Subject: RE: BS: Another reincarnation story.
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 30 Apr 04 - 01:08 PM

My skepticism is born of vast experience of charlatans, liars and con artists. It is not negativism, I see it as dutiful and a positive counter to protect in some small measure those who are open to exploitation. That said, I have no problem at all with diverse viewpoints -- I think it's a bit unfair to suggest incredulity equates to closed-mindedness.

Subject: RE: BS: Another reincarnation story.
From: Amos
Date: 30 Apr 04 - 01:26 PM

Ah, BPL, I did not mean to imply you were clos eminded -- my sarcasm was directed to Guest, who thought ridicule an appropriate submission. The history of charlatanism is enough to make anyone skeptical. No question, the great beauty of the phsyical universe is that it politely repeats itself exactly, and we can use that as a standard of proof. Great stuff for proving that gravity's acceleration in near-Earth tests is pretty consistently 9.8 m/s/s and that pi will always be 3.14 (or whatever the precise values are).

The question of life force is an order of magnitude removed from these things, though, and is a lot trickier to categorize. Thought has no bounds the way a solid object has, it has no reason to comply with any constant rates of acceleration or density. It is wild-fire when it gets going and can change the rules as quick as you like. So it is a different problem altogether. Unfortunately sorting out the differences and similarities, and finding the cause of them, is a long pursuit. Be that as it may I have always found it a rewarding one. But the bottom line is that you must be true to what you yourself observe. Nothing else will do you much good.

A

A

Subject: RE: BS: Another reincarnation story.
From: Cruiser
Date: 30 Apr 04 - 01:27 PM

Reincarnation?

Dipwallow!!!


(From the term coined(?) by the popular Little Hawk, and one of my favorite Mudcatters)

Cruiser

Subject: RE: BS: Another reincarnation story.
From: Amos
Date: 30 Apr 04 - 01:34 PM

Right, there ya go, Cruiser.

Have a nice life, anyway, and when you find yourself looking down on your ex-body from thirty feet up, at the end, I promise not to be there to say anything snide, rude, or dismissive.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Another reincarnation story.
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 30 Apr 04 - 01:35 PM

But the bottom line is that you must be true to what you yourself observe

I think this is one of the points upon which we differ, Amos. I would require you test your observation before putting it forward. I saw Santa in 1958 and in 1970 Jimi Hendrix winked at me from the poster on my bedroom wall ;o)

Subject: RE: BS: Another reincarnation story.
From: Mudlark
Date: 30 Apr 04 - 01:51 PM

I have a literal mind, I think...just listening to discussions about chaos and string theory churns MY stomach, and boggles my mind, and they are based, supposedly, in scientific thinking. Though agnostic in faith-based subjects I've certainly had a few unexplainable incidents that have left me marvelling at the mystery of it all. And I'm OK with that. None of us truly understand the workings of our own bodies, let alone that of the universe and beyond. Watching a school of fish, or a huge flock of blackbirds, all wheeling and turning in perfect formation, it's hard not to believe in collective consciousness. If only the Discovery Channel were able able to focus a wildlife camera back through time on small tribes of stoneage humans, the same patterns might be seen. I think our brains have just outgrown mind/body wisdom.

Subject: RE: BS: Another reincarnation story.
From: Amos
Date: 30 Apr 04 - 02:32 PM

BPL:

From your description, you know these were not true events (because you describe them as one would hallucinations); your integrity is not compromised when you are being true to what you really think and see. What YOU see may be truer than what some mis-firing circuit in the body "sees".   It's when you start altering what you've observed for yourself in order to satisfy someone else that you start getting in to trouble.

Or so it seems to me.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Another reincarnation story.
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 30 Apr 04 - 02:57 PM

OK, stop the play right there ... you've given up a good example of what I mean, Amos. You place an emphasis on the word 'you' by typing it in giant, important letters, juxtaposed with a purposely-demeaning use of quote marks around the word 'sees' and reinforced it with a second demeaning reference 'mis-firing circuit.'

No fair. Try it in reverse: What you "see" may not be as true as that which the body sees.

It's a bit mangled, but you see where I'm coming from.