BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...

Subject: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 22 Jul 04 - 01:32 PM

Now and then one finds a Guest upset about an apparent feud on Mudcat between someone and someone else...but it isn't really a feud at all...it's a joke. Now and then longtime Mudcat members get upset about the same thing. This happens when people aren't in on the joke, I guess, or they don't know the combatants well enough to catch on.

The thing is, when you know people really well you sometimes pretend to fight with them about something (preferably something fairly ridiculous) just for fun. It's called "joshing".

The spectacle of other people getting bent out of shape by this because they take it all too seriously can sometimes come as a bit of a surprise.

Anyway, just to reassure those people, I have had big fake feuds in the past on Mudcat with:

flattop (a longtime good friend of mine in real life)

Raptor (another longtime friend whom I delight in sniping at on occasion...he's a real shit disturber sometimes, so why shouldn't I do the same to him now and then? For instance, he persecuted my stuffed frog, Kermit, so badly that I had to quit taking Kermit to my musical performances altogether. To put it simply, Raptor can be an A$$hole at times, and he enjoys it thoroughly! :-))

Clinton Hammond (a guy who disagrees with me about a lot of things, but sometimes surprises me by agreeing with me on something!)

Amos - A prince of a man. When I appear to insult Amos you should definitely KNOW it's a joke!

Spaw - I took up fake feuding with Spaw merely because he is a veritable icon on this forum (kind of like William Shatner), and it's far too tempting to snipe at an icon for me to be able to resist. It is all tongue in cheek. Spaw is a great guy.

Martin Gibson - Hell, everybody feuds with Martin! Still, I actually like him.

Doug R - Well, I don't really feud with Doug, we just disagree radically on politics. I like Doug R.

teribus & Wolfgang - Sort of similar to Doug R. I just naturally tend to disagree with them on a lot of subjects. This may appear like a feud, but it isn't, as far as I'm concerned.

So....the next time you see this sort of thing happening, consider that it may be just a joke...or the healthy give and take of alternate viewpoints.

Anyone else want to admit to their fake feuds on Mudcat so as to put people's worried minds to rest a bit?

Oh...and you real feuders can go and start your own flippin' thread!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: CarolC
Date: 22 Jul 04 - 01:38 PM

Troll and his brother Skeptic had a hilarious "pretend" feud a few years ago. They had to stop because people who weren't in on it were getting upset. It's too bad, because they were very funny.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 22 Jul 04 - 01:42 PM

Yeah, I vaguely remember that, and it was truly hilarious all right.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: Rapparee
Date: 22 Jul 04 - 01:55 PM

Little Hawk, Chongo the Chimp, Amos, DougR, Bobert and everyone else. Except the ubiquitous GUEST. Not all GUESTs, just the one. You know who I mean.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: saulgoldie
Date: 22 Jul 04 - 02:11 PM

Is it only feuding if you attack the person and not the ideas? I have been sticking with attacking only the ideas. (Even if someone is a jackass, their ideas may still be pretty good, and even if they are the very model of a human being, if they spout crap, then that is all there is.) Perhaps I should branch out. Feuding, real or fake sounds like fun.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 22 Jul 04 - 03:02 PM

Well, no, I think you can attack the ideas too, but it helps to attack them in a really intemperate, unreasonable fashion, using convoluted and pompous language or else resorting to obviously crude forms of bluster and obfuscation. (love those big words...)

However, you are correct that petty criticism and personal abuse is the heart and soul of a really good fake feud, saul. :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: CarolC
Date: 22 Jul 04 - 03:07 PM

Some gems from Troll and Skeptic:

Skeptic-

ps: troll: I agree and endorse the first paragraph in your latest post. But then, I know where you got it from. Lobachevsky would be so proud.

Troll-

I only steal from the best. I'm happy that you FINALLY recognized one of my many sources of information.
Of course, even a blind pig will find an acorn if he roots long enough.

Skeptic-

troll, The Times? In response to something in the Forth Worth Star Telegraph? You are being less than lucid. Glad you're getting back to normal.

Skeptic-

The "blind pig" reference was to me. Not one of his better efforts (using 'effort' very liberally). I think it some sort of sad compulsion to try to be witty. Much like his delusions of competency. (Note to troll - an opening for a comeback - don't miss it).

Troll-

I save them for those who can appreciate and -more importantly- understand them.

Far from being a "sad compulsion to try to be witty", I was merely trying to make YOU feel more a part of things. Sort of a "make jokes with him so he'll feel more like one of the guys". I realize that it was probably a wasted effort but I DID promise I'd try. I should have remembered," Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig."

Oh. By the way. All things considered, you are the LAST person I would expect to hear talking about competency.

Skeptic-

Is there someone who appreciates your efforts? I mean aside from those abnormal psych grad students using you as a case study?

Troll-

Skeptic.
Ebbie likes my humor. She said so.
So THERE!

Skeptic-

Ebbie, In his own mind, troll is almost always serious. Couple that curious delusion with his severely dysfunctional personality and a view of reality that can best be characterized as, literally, unique and you capture a hint of the difficult in deciphering his cryptic attempts at communication. Let along dealing with him face to face.
I've always found that: 1. Ignoring him does no good. He can't take the hint. 2. Some people crave abuse and rejection. He requires it. 3. Don't take him at all seriously. Although he takes himself that way, those who know him have adopted a kind of benign contempt.

I hope his comments weren't meant as a compliment. Talk about ruining your whole day.....!!!!


...And on another thread (I think this is one of my favorites)...

Troll-

Amos, if Skeptic (John) HAD taken it personally, you would have known it in no uncertain terms. So far he has been extremely kind in his postings

Actually, he is a vicious little rat with a tongue like a razor-blade dipped in sulphuric acid.

And those are his GOOD points.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Jul 04 - 03:07 PM

well I think you're all talking tosh - you wouldnt get me wasting my breath - or typing on a pretend fued I reckon they are all real!!!!!

bring back birching, stocks, hanging for anyone who has an alternate point of view

the duelling threads last year and this were a bit like the ones you've talked about - check out the names there - we're all mates too

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 22 Jul 04 - 03:15 PM

Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Har! Har! Gasp!@ Oh, my...

Carol, that stuff is absolutely as good as it gets in fake feuding. My hat is off to Troll and Skeptic.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: Don Firth
Date: 22 Jul 04 - 04:55 PM

I mentioned on another thread that I used to be an avid fencer. The sport, of course, was derived from serious matters centuries ago, when sometimes one's life could depend upon one's skill in handling a rapier (16th and 17th centuries) or an elegant but deadly small-sword (18th century). Gentlemen would often spent half a day at the salle d'armes, taking a lesson from the maitre d'armes in offense and defence with the sword, then spending a couple of hours bouting with other gentlemen, partly in an effort to perfect their technique, but often just for the sport of it. It was this sort of thing from which modern art and sport of fencing was derived.

Although the term was never used in relation to fencing until a few decades ago, it is a martial art, and it demands the same sort of discipline, mental focus, and self control as the Asian martial arts.

Many hours I used to spend dressed in my fencing whites, peering intently through the wire mesh of a fencing mask, foil, épée, or saber in my gloved hand, going at it hammer and tongs with other fencers, invariably good friends because we shared the same passion for the sport. The click and slither of slender blades against each other, the stamping of feet, and the shouts of "Et la!" and "Touché!" are sheer music!

To the onlooker unacquainted with the art, it undoubtedly looked as if we were trying to kill each other. In fact, friend of my youth Alan Randall and I were fencing one afternoon in a nearby park (in our imaginations, recreating the days when gentlemen might settle an "affair of honor" in the Bois de Boulogne just outside of Paris) when a police car cruising through screeched to a halt and two policemen leaped out and dashed over to us, convinced that we were bent on doing murder to each other—fight with swords, ye gods! We let them examine our weapons (slender, flexible steel blades with points like nail-heads which we padded with a bit of adhesive tape) and our wire mesh masks and padded jackets, and assured them that we were good friends engaging in a perfectly safe sport. They stayed for awhile and watched us, rather fascinated as we thrusted, parried, lunged, et al, then eventually left us to our recreation.

An evening of swordplay at the YMCA or the Washington Athletic Club in Seattle or Hans Halberstadt's salle d'armes in San Francisco was almost invariably followed by adjourning to the nearest alehouse to replace the moisture we had sweated out and share convivial good-fellowship with the guys and gals we had spent the past couple of hours trying (in our imaginations) to shish-kabob on modern (blunted) replicas of the elegant, deadly weapons that the aristocracy of two or three centuries ago wore as an essential part of their wardrobe. A spirited, healthy, and enjoyable way to experience a bit of history.

Quite a bit of verbal fencing goes on here on Mudcat, and sometimes it gets vigorous to the point where an onlooker might misunderstand what is really going on. As long as one does it in the spirit of sport—and in the spirit (even if, because of distances, it is not actually possible) of following the discourse by lifting a tall and foamy with one's former adversaries, then one gets one's exercise, hones one's skills, and all is well.

My only real quarrel is with the kind of person who (to change the analogy from fencing) comes into a conference where dignified people are discussing serious issues, and whose only contribution to the discussion is to drop his pants and take a dump in the middle of the conference table.

You know the type.

Don Firth

". . . and as I end the refrain, thrust home!"
                               —Cyrano de Bergerac

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 22 Jul 04 - 06:31 PM

What can be annoying, in the Internet as in real life, is when someone starts blustering and bullying in dead earnest - and then backs off under pressure and moves into the mode "I was only joking, some people haven't got any no sense of humour".

But when well-intentioned peacemaker is trying to calm down a battle-royal which is in fact a friendly match - that can be quite entertaining to observe.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 22 Jul 04 - 06:38 PM

Darn right. :-) I remember one time when Spaw was engaged in some ridiculous thread that supposedly involved people maltreating parrots while playing music or something like that. It was started by some band looking for information, and Spaw siezed upon something in their band name and started raising hell about them encouraging cruelty to animals. He was doing it just for laughs, but they took him seriously. It got crazier and crazier. I think they finally realized he was joking, but he had to say some totally off-the-wall stuff before they finally caught on.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 22 Jul 04 - 06:44 PM

Hi again Don. I fear your last "Lunge" may be "Parried" by you know who but aint it all sort of fun anyway??. I suppose if we all took everything everyone said to us on a real personal level on here, we would become paranoid(paranoid schitzophrenics..those who are pretending not to be their real selves eh?)
Be Blessed.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 22 Jul 04 - 06:55 PM

Idle curiosity drift - is "blessed" there intended as an adjective, with two syllables ("I can't find my blessed socks") or a verb with one syllable ("he blessed the bride")?

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: Rapparee
Date: 22 Jul 04 - 07:04 PM

Don, the Presbyterian church here sponsors fencing. I'd like to get back to it -- foil, I think, since I gave away my epees and my saber is, well, a saber and sharp edges and blood give a whole new dimension to the sport.

It's excellent physical and mental exercise.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: Once Famous
Date: 22 Jul 04 - 09:22 PM

"My only real quarrel is with the kind of person who (to change the analogy from fencing) comes into a conference where dignified people are discussing serious issues, and whose only contribution to the discussion is to drop his pants and take a dump in the middle of the conference table"

But that's the deal for me. The more dignified, the bigger the dump is going to be. Can't do it at the meeting room at work, but sure can here. I'm always watching for the good opportunities, Don.

And fencing is really a stupid sport! Why don't you play with your friends for real? Do you guys wear the same masks as bee keepers?

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 22 Jul 04 - 10:40 PM

............This happens when people aren't in on the joke, I guess, or they don't know the combatants well enough to catch on..........

..................But when well-intentioned peacemaker is trying to calm down a battle-royal which is in fact a friendly match - that can be quite entertaining to observe..........

..................They had to stop because people who weren't in on it were getting upset..........

..................However, you are correct that petty criticism and personal abuse is the heart and soul of a really good fake feud,...........

I find the idea of people continuing in-jokes on a public forum, at best, rude. When the insiders start to find amusement in the actions of the "well-intentioned peacemaker" then it is akin to children whispering and giggling with the intention of upsetting others.

As members often use Mudcat handles rather than family names, how could I be expected to know that Troll and Skeptic were, in fact, brothers and their "feud" was only good old family joshing. One of the complaints against Mudcat is that it is run by an inner clique. I don't believe that to be true but leaving a large percentage of the contributors out of the loop in this way only re-enforces that feeling.

We have enough real feuds (or, at least, I think we do) to make Mudcat seem a very unpleasant place at times. Fake feuds, while being fun for the few, encourage the climate where intolerance seems the norm and is likely to drive sensible people to look elsewhere.


Doug C

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: CarolC
Date: 22 Jul 04 - 11:10 PM

Well, they did stop (Troll and Skeptic). They even apologized for it in a thread started just for that reason. Feel any better?

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 22 Jul 04 - 11:44 PM

Actually, Doug, all it usually takes is just not to react immediately, but to read between the lines a bit. When people are writing stuff tongue in cheek it usually becomes evident what they are up to fairly quickly, I think.

And we don't do it to mystify outsiders, we do it because it's funny for those directly involved. The same thing happens in ordinary conversations in real life. Have you not ever kidded around with a buddy about something? And did the people at the next table always know exactly what was going on? Does it really matter? Any club or meeting place forms groups of people who know each other well enough that they have something going that someone else may not fully comprehend. It's not just Mudcat where that happens.

Brucie's constant references to my supposed penchant for goats and blow-up dolls, for instance...how could a newcomer possibly know where that's coming from? Well, it's a joke. I am not going to give up making jokes because there may be someone in the room who doesn't get it.

In the immortal words of Mick Jagger, "F*ck 'em if they can't take a joke."

And I learned it all from Spaw, the beloved elder statesman of this forum, so if you're gonna get upset with someone, get upset with him.

Yes, he is a horrible example. Just horrible. He should probably be clapped in the stocks or keelhauled or something. :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: DougR
Date: 23 Jul 04 - 01:15 AM

Aw shucks, LH, I'm blushing! :>)

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: Peace
Date: 23 Jul 04 - 01:49 AM

It would seriously hurt to get your stocks clapped. That happened to me once in a sparring match. Spaw, don't let him clap your stocks.

Someone on another thread made a very good observation: We never saw Ringo Starr and Arafat together in the same room. So, could they be the same person? That got me to wondering about Little Hawk and William Shatner. Naw, couldn't be, right?

When I castigate (I hope that means what I think it does) Little Hawk about the goat or the dolls, it is with the intent of having some fun. People--even all growed up people--occasionally get the giggles and absolutely EVERYthing seems funny. The whole world won't like it. Hey, that's life. If I though for a moment that LH took any of it seriously, I would apologize first in public and then in private. He is a 'catter, thinker and person for whom I have the utmost respect. (I don't trust him worth shit on the goat, but he understands that.)

Some fights do break out on the Mudcat. But fights don't break out over Willard Fillmore or beer (except amongst those who drink Guinness and those who don't). Fights break out over topics about which people feel very deeply, rightly or wrongly. That too is life.

After my brother's deat a while back, I got to thinking that with his body being sent to Montreal for autopsy, then being sent elsewhere for further testing (toxicology) and finally the trip to the crematorium and then the trip to the burial sit--he travelled more the first month after his death than he's travelled in the past twenty years. That appealed to my sense of humour and I ended up laughing for about ten minutes. It struck me as being extremely funny. I wouldn't expect many people to see the humour in it, but I know some from the 'cat who would. And I wouldn't be the least offended if they too laughed out loud about it. Hell, funny is funny, even if everyone doesn't 'see' it.

An understanding of context helps, but that isn't the only barometer for humour. Months ago I seriously offended someone who likes rugby. I implied that it wasn't a real game like North American football. (I know rugby is a tough game.) You'd a though I shit in the cornflakes. I tried to make amends--they weren't accepted. So, what's a guy to do? Everything can't be serious all the time, any more than everything can be a joke all the time. Is everyone's understanding of context always right on? Naw. Is everyone's humour or timing always right on? Naw. Will it matter in five years? Naw.

It's life, and life only.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: Peace
Date: 23 Jul 04 - 02:04 AM

Besides, I started by asking LH if I could borrow the goat because life was lonely in Alberta. In the only real lie LH has ever told on the Mudcat, he said he sent her--and I know he didn't. He barbequed the poor little thing and here I sit, waiting for Esmerelda who will never find true love. Death, where is thy STING!

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: Ellenpoly
Date: 23 Jul 04 - 04:08 AM

So





Cookies all around?





;-D




..xx..e

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: mooman
Date: 23 Jul 04 - 04:40 AM

But that's the deal for me. The more dignified, the bigger the dump is going to be. Can't do it at the meeting room at work, but sure can here. I'm always watching for the good opportunities, Don.

Pretty good statement MG that pretty well sums you up. Some of us do have the nerve to stick our neck out at the meeting room at work, where it can make a difference, week in week out in the interest of doing the right thing. And then we act like civilized human beings here. Your language and attitude is pretty much the worst I've seen in the five years or so I've been visiting this forum. I suppose you take great pride in that.

mooman

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 23 Jul 04 - 05:23 AM

... and the problem that you don't seem to understand MG, is that while people who meet you in real life first may think you are a great guy, those of us who have only experienced you first in this forum in all your glory of 'dumping' in this place, are only more likely to try to avoid you in real life, rather than willingly to seek out your company. And sadly, also probably discount your personal opinions on anything regarding music, even those areas in which you well be expert and well experienced.

Robin

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 23 Jul 04 - 06:44 AM

Without naming names, I can remember a thread (now deleted) where two members where throwing the most vicious invective at each other. I happen to know that the antagonists where both alta egos of the same person. I of course did a similiar thing with my Avril Betts persona.

Many of the Mudcat feuds are on this sort of level - there are some exceptions though - Kampervan & I versus McFat & Baggyrash and of course The World versus Breezy - these are deadly serious !

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: Once Famous
Date: 23 Jul 04 - 09:59 AM

Mooman

So what! Maybe that's why you've bounced around from job to job or can't even hold one. If you offend so easily, you are probably wearing your wife's panties anyway. Go suck cow teat, Moo.

And "fool" stroupe, another BFD. I could care less if you don't seek me out. You can discount anything you want about me about what I post in the music threads. I COULD CARE LESS! As a music historian and pro for 40 years, it's your loss. I shake hands with my friends in real life. Welcome to cyberspace, pal.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: CarolC
Date: 23 Jul 04 - 10:30 AM

I guess that's another thing that makes a certain amount of inside humor inevitable. Many of us who post here in the Mudcat have met or spent time with many other Mudcatters in "real life" (3D world). Some inside jokes are bound to arise out of these "real life" encounters.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: Once Famous
Date: 23 Jul 04 - 10:38 AM

And some prefer to remain private and keep it all in perspective.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: CarolC
Date: 23 Jul 04 - 10:55 AM

Good point. I've noticed that in the past, people who have started out in the Mudcat with "personas" that centered around being abusive toward others did, eventually, become more accountable for their behavior once they started meeting other Mudcatters in "real life".

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: Once Famous
Date: 23 Jul 04 - 10:57 AM

Yeah, and I'm really sick of being accountable.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: CarolC
Date: 23 Jul 04 - 11:00 AM

That's what I thought.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: Once Famous
Date: 23 Jul 04 - 11:26 AM

Should have been obvious.

What does it all really prove anyway, if one already has more self-esteem than they will ever need? Or if this whole place to them is just a whimsy that varies to certain degrees at any given time?

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: CarolC
Date: 23 Jul 04 - 11:52 AM

Just a matter of preferences, I guess. I find the friendships I've made with people here in the Mudcat very rewarding. More rewarding, in some ways, than many of the contacts I have with people I meet through other contexts. I guess that's because people from all over the world who have certain sensibilities in commone with me (sense of humor, musical tastes, etc.) are all concentrated here in this one place.

It would be extremely difficult for me to find as many kindred spirits in the "real world" as I find here in the Mudcat every day. And the friendships I make here become a means for me to get out and see much more of the world than I would otherwise be able to do, through the eyes of people who are local to that area. Best way to travel, in my opinion.

On the other hand, one of the best friends I've ever had in the Mudcat, I never even knew his name or what he looked like until after he died. I miss him a lot.

One thing I think some people don't understand about places like the Mudcat, is that mixed in amongst the every day regular people like you, who have very active and full 3D world lives, there are quite a few people who, because of illness or other physical limitations, aren't able to have a full and satisfying 3D life. The Mudcat helps them keep their sanity while they go through very difficult times of physical and social isolation.

I know everyone's behavior here is their own choice, but personally, I think the people who are going through difficult times deserve all the kindness we can give them. And it's not always possible to know which Mudcatters are going through such experiences. So for me, I choose to at least attempt kindness toward everyone. I know from personal experience what an important life-line a place like the Mudcat can be.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: mooman
Date: 23 Jul 04 - 11:56 AM

Mooman

So what! Maybe that's why you've bounced around from job to job or can't even hold one. If you offend so easily, you are probably wearing your wife's panties anyway. Go suck cow teat, Moo.

Exactly. No need for me to say anything. You say it all yourself. Actually, you don't know the first thing about me Martin unlike the 60 or 70 'Catters I've actually met in person. And although I sometimes visit Chicago on business...you never will meet me. And, if I accidentally should bump into you, I'd still buy you a drink despite having "shit for brains and wearing my wife's panties". And no...I'm not easily offended at all...on the contrary. You'll have to try a great deal harder than that. Cow teat...mmmmm.

moo

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: CarolC
Date: 23 Jul 04 - 12:04 PM

Here's a very small example of what I'm talking about...

For my mother

Subject: For my mother
From: GUEST,CarolC (at her parent's house in Wheaton) - PM
Date: 24 Nov 00 - 12:19 AM

My mom just died. She had a heart attack. She had a good Thanksgiving.

Carol

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 23 Jul 04 - 12:48 PM

Spaw had a fake feud going with me over the David Bowie song "Space Oddity". Every chance he got he would attack that song and its main protagonist, Major Tom, in a totally outrageous and unfair manner. It' actually a great song. Why he chose to do this I don't know, except I guess he got a few laughs out of it. My reaction was to mention the song frequently, just to see if he'd go after it again, and he always did.

Then I discovered that Spaw had a very low opinion of the song "McArthur Park" (heaven knows why...), so I started praising "McArthur Park" to the skies as a brilliant piece of musical metaphor whenever I could. That was fun. I will probably always defend "McArthur Park" on Mudcat, and Spaw is responsible.

And so it goes...

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: Don Firth
Date: 23 Jul 04 - 05:19 PM

Okay, Little Hawk, here it comes, as promised. I decided to post it on this thread rather than "the end of the world is nigh" because that thread is getting so long it takes a long time to load, and I feel that this is too important for people to miss. Also, it does seem fairly appropriate here. However, by way of introduction, some folks might wish to pick up the background of the following by reading a couple of posts on the aforementioned thread (here), beginning with Little Hawk's of 22 Jul 04 - 03:30 PM, and on through subsequent posts.

This bit of Natural (or Unnatural) History was learned from a strange and awesome source. It occurred during a moment of great clarity that came to me a few nights ago, when, feeling relaxed, magnanimous, and open to all that the universe had to offer (and without the "aid" of mind-altering substances, I might add, other that a cup of tea [Earl Gray, hot]), I was surprised to find myself channeling an old, wise soul who informed me that he had reincarnated many times—and in various forms. He had been many people and many things during his long sojourn, and at times he had occupied non-human forms. On one of these occasions when he manifested as a non-human, he had adopted the name Cyril. Since things in this multiplicity of realms tend to form interlocking vortices, many of which account for strange coincidences in this world, it is not unusual that, in the form of the non-human, Cyril, he had been in Chicago some four and a half or five decades ago and he chanced to encounter none other than our dear friend Martin Gibson!

We talked of many things, and during this conversation, Cyril told me this bizarre story:—

To say that Martin Gibson had a dysfunctional childhood would be something of an understatement.

A few moments after he was born, she who bore him took one look at him, and her heartrending and bloodcurdling shriek of horror echoed and re-echoed through the concrete canyons of the great city. She scrambled frantically out of the Dumpster, ran down the alley, and vanished into the night.

Being forsaken thus could have meant the end for Marty. But he was in luck. Many animals recognize and seem to take pity on abandoned infants of other species and take care of them as best they can, raising them as if they were their own (there are precedents for this: strange though it seems, there are rare cases of even human children being raised by wild animals). For months he was suckled by feral alley cats, who also cuddled up to him and kept him warm on cold winter nights. This was not entirely pleasant for him, but being dined on by the fleas that the cats carried was preferable to freezing to death.

Eventually, the cats were driven away by a family if large and ferocious Norwegian rats (you could tell by the accent) who appropriated the Dumpster as their own. Once again, this could have meant the end for Marty. But the rats, feeling some sort of strange kinship to this odd, helpless creature, decided that, rather than eating him, they would take care of him. As helpless and pathetic as he was, and with his wrinkled, pasty grayish-white skin and long incisors, he reminded them of a creature that was indigenous to Equatorial East Africa, and who, also being a rodent, may or may not be distantly related to them:   the naked mole rat (here and here), one of Mother Nature's more disgusting creatures.

Thus, under these unusual circumstances, Marty thrived as best as one could. He grew fat and strong on the provender that seem to rain down with some regularity when the lid was lifted, blinding him in the harsh daylight, but leaving he and his rattus norvegicus family a variety of treats:   such things as orange peels, wilted lettuce, half-eaten Big Macs, and the occasional stale Twinkie. A major treat in his young life was when someone tossed in a nearly half-full box of Froot Loops. The nearest thing to square meals he had in those early years came in the form of a discarded box of moldy Pop Tarts.

Because he had learned many aggressive survival mechanisms from his two adoptive families (the cats and the rats), as he grew larger and larger, the rats became afraid of him, especially when he took to eating their newborn ("Uff da!"), so they abandoned the Dumpster to seek safer refuge.

I might digress at this point to mention that, since his birth, twice a week Marty went through moments of sheer terror when the Dumpster suddenly moved, and accompanied by strange vibrations and metallic growling noises, was lifted up, and turned upside-down, causing all the accumulated contents to fall out. He always knew when this was about to occur, because his rattus norvegicus family (and the feral cats before them) always disappeared shortly before this happened. He barely managed to keep from being ejected with the rest of the trash by desperately clutching the protuberances of dried, unspecified crud that had adhered to the insides of the Dumpster. His terror gradually ebbed when the Dumpster was righted and returned to its former location. On a plaintive and somewhat unsettling note, he always wondered why, when his rattus norvegicus family (and the feral cats before them) returned and saw he was still there, they rolled their eyes and sighed wearily.

Much to his credit, and standing him in good stead (sort of) in his years to come, Marty whiled away the lonely hours by teaching himself to read. A small bit of light dimly illuminated the interior of the Dumpster because the lid didn't fit properly, and one day someone tossed in a well-thumbed and somewhat sticky copy of Hustler Magazine. This constituted Marty's "First Reader," and goes a long way toward explaining his current interests and modes of expression.

Over the years Marty began to feel that there had to be something beyond the confines of the Dumpster, but cowering in fear at the light that blinded him whenever the lid was raise, he knew practically nothing of the Outside World until he began receiving regular visits from a raccoon named Cyril [AHA! Here we go!], who lived in an overgrown vacant lot several blocks away. Cyril first dropped in (literally) to examine the menu du jour of the random but fortunately plentiful semi-edibles that rained into the Dumpster almost every day. Urbane, worldly wise, and a bit cynical (as befits a city-dwelling raccoon), but with a basically kindly nature, he took pity on the pathetic creature that inhabited the Dumpster. Now that the rats were gone, the poor creature's only companions were a horde of surly and uncommunicative cockroaches, the usual swarm of flies, and an occasional yellow-jacket that found its way under the ill-fitting lid.

During his regular visits, as they dined on leftover pizza crusts and licked the Omega 3 oils out empty kipper-snack cans, Marty told Cyril of his life in the metal box (not much to tell) and Cyril told Marty of the great world outside, often regaling him with tales of his many wonderful adventures. Marty's normally watery, squinting eyes opened wide in amazement as Cyril told him of the humans that predominated in the city, and instructed him in the ways of these humans, since, after eliminating a number of other likely possibilities, he judged Marty could possibly belong to that species. Finally, exhibiting tough-love, Cyril urged, encouraged, and even threatened Marty until he fearfully ventured out of the Dumpster, cowering and blinking, into the light of day. As he crouched bewildered and trembling there in the alley, he was overcome with something akin to agoraphobia. Although he wanted to desperately, he was much too nervous, shaky, and confused to figure out how to lift the lid and crawl back in. As he curled up in the fetal position, leaned against the Dumpster, sucked his thumb, and whimpered piteously, he had his very first encounter with personal hygiene. It began to rain.

It took years of long and bitter struggle as he gradually learned to adapt to the outside world, but eventually Marty was able to walk the streets of Chicago with no one really being the wiser about his strange beginnings in life. Despite the loose, grayish skin, the drooping, rheumy eyes, the overlong incisors, the tendency to drool, and the peculiar vocabulary—and because one meets some pret-ty strange people in a big city, he managed to achieved general acceptance as merely another human being [Biologist's annotation: Let us not forget that this classification has not yet been fully tested and that so far, we are relying on the random speculations of a raccoon!].

As fickle fate would have it, the vortices of happenstance (as described above) have swept Marty into that quadrant of the cyberspace galaxy in which Mudcat resides. And that, in essence, is the story thus far, folks.

Considering his unusual upbringing, it is understandable that his social skills may be a bit—well—trying at times. But knowing of his strange background, I'm sure that, in our greatness of heart, we will all take pity on him and therefore be willing to cut him a bit of slack.

Don Firth

P. S.: Undoubtedly there are those here who might wonder, "Doesn't Firth have something better to do with his time?" Well, certainly. But Cyril urged me to post this. He thought the world should know.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 Jul 04 - 06:11 PM

Can't do it at the meeting room at work./I>

I think the term for that is chickenshit.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 23 Jul 04 - 06:19 PM

A term which is hardly fair to chickens! After all, chickens too must eliminate waste in the only way Nature has allowed them to.

Don, I am amazed by those revelations. I await Martin's response.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 23 Jul 04 - 07:29 PM

My previous reference to "Handyman" Don still obviously applies to someone so adept at "Hitting the nail on the head". You seem to have done just that again. It would appear to me that you have the makings of a Biographical epic here and could possibly have a "Best Seller" as well as a possible film offer when completed. Your literal talent shines through in abundance. Be Blessed.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: Don Firth
Date: 23 Jul 04 - 08:00 PM

Thank you, Georgiansilver. You are a person of great keenness and discernment.

A major problem with a film, of course, would be casting. Who (or what!??) would play Marty?

Well, maybe computer generation is the answer. In LOTR, they seemed to have done pretty well with Gollum. . . .

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 23 Jul 04 - 08:21 PM

Martin Gibso-You are rubbish, I seen mooman in real life, and he's a good bloke, so don't say any bad things about him.
and you said he's got no job, but he's got his own company making musical instruments, so just shut up.

and I seen your messages that got deleted, you are bad, and i bet nobody likes you, and i bet you got no frends, and i bet you are shit at music, and i bet you can't play guitar, and i bet you got no job.

so just get lost and stop making trubble.john

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 Jul 04 - 08:34 PM

Still idly curious about which way "blessed" is meant to be pronounced in Georgiansilver's sign-off.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: GUEST,Jaze
Date: 23 Jul 04 - 08:49 PM

Still wondering who pissed in Martin Gibson's corn flakes? Little Hawk, If you really want to get to Spaw--start another thread on the Songcatcher movie!

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 24 Jul 04 - 05:45 AM

McG of H....I make no secret of the fact I am Christian...not always a good one I must add but nevertheless a Christian. Although I might not like some of the things people do or say(including myself) I would always ask the Blessing of our God on all I meet in life or in the unreal life of Mudcat. As usual, this will make me yet again some sort of target for those who do not share my beliefs but Bless'em all anyway. Be Blessed.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: jacqui.c
Date: 24 Jul 04 - 05:57 AM

GS - I'm not a Christian but feel that anyone who can hold to their beliefs, in spite of opposition of whatever kind, is to be greatly admired.

Your blessing to others shows a caring for those with whom you come into contact and puts you in a different class from those who simply want to disipate their own anger in unpleasant attacks on others.

Don - you gave me the best laugh I've had in a while - and that's saying something - with the lowdown on Marty's origins. I await the next chapter with bated breath.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 24 Jul 04 - 10:09 AM

It's awfully easy to misconstrue things on the Internet when you can't hear the tone of a person's voice. I once got very pissed off because someone used the phrase "I can't believe..." in response to something I said. Now, "I can't believe that X happened" can be construed two ways. It can figuratively mean "I'm surprised that X happened" or it can literally mean "You're a liar if you say that X happened." In the context of the discussion, I took it literally, but on reflection, much later, it occurred to me that it might have been meant figuratively.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 24 Jul 04 - 01:12 PM

The Songcatcher movie? Hmmm. Okay, I'll check it out.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: kendall
Date: 24 Jul 04 - 09:30 PM

I saw a great bumper sticker today, it said:

I'D SLAP YOU, BUT SHIT SPLATTERS.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: Peace
Date: 24 Jul 04 - 09:34 PM

That's Mudflap Feuds that aren't really feuds, kendall.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: Once Famous
Date: 24 Jul 04 - 10:18 PM

Take a look at what kind of foolish asshole like Don Firth writes such a long thread about someone who always gets the best of him. Creative? No, fucked. It really shows how shallow his life is that he spends so much time writing about me, which is his obsession and shows how much sleep he loses over me.

Guest, Jaze, did you changed your name for Jiz, as in jizzum.

Miss John from Dull: I would fart in your face, first opportunity.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 24 Jul 04 - 11:37 PM

"Take a look at what kind of foolish asshole like Don Firth writes such a long thread about someone who always gets the best of him. Creative? No, fucked."

Do I detect the Green Eyed Monster - someone who despises a talent that he does not possess?

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 25 Jul 04 - 01:05 AM

I too find Don Firth to be well talented in the literal department. Apart from hid fun filled fued with Martin, some of his postings are a delight to read...even those I do not agree with. Keep it up Don
Be Blessed.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: Jeri
Date: 25 Jul 04 - 10:25 AM

I thought Don's post was great. As to who's getting the best of whom, I think it's pretty obviously Don who's winning this one. My guess is that Marty has a very limited repertoire. Name-calling and relative-insulting sort of lose effectiveness after a while. Marty, if you want to keep insulting people, try learning some new tricks. Quite a few formerly 'nice' people around here have learned how to be nasty to people, so I'm sure you can develop new skills.

Play it again
Call 'em fuck face, dick breath, jerk-off boozers
Say their mama gives head to all the homeless losers
You'd think them shocking words would score
But they don't work like they used to anymore

Folks just yawn now, make fun of my style,
They just don't react to my prethenth
I guess if I really wanna piss 'em off
I'll hafta play this again with a Gmaj7th

[Play it again, etc...]

But folks can rhyme or write a story
They play some different games
But you know what they say about old dogs,
I'll just keep on callin' them names

Play it again...[yada, yada, yada]
- When it comes to creativity, I just don't rate
- 'Cause all I can do is hyphen-ate
- But I'll can play the banjo... [ends with first 9 notes from Dueling Banjos.]

Georgiansilver, not all who don't share your beliefs will see you as a target. If I tried to tell you not to post certain things about who you are or what you believe just because I'll have a knee-jerk reaction I won't be able to prevent, I'd be a controlling (of others, not myself) jerk.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: Amos
Date: 25 Jul 04 - 10:45 AM

Jeri:

Pretenth....Gmaj7th?

What, lost some sleep last night working that over? :>)

I like your song, though, really truly.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: Jeri
Date: 25 Jul 04 - 11:36 AM

Amos, are you familiar with the concept of the 'Persian Fuckup'. You know - those mistakes they put in works because only Allah is perfect, and they just KNOW they're not gonna make any mistakes? They have to do one on purpose so they don't make Allah look bad. It's humility. This isn't one of those things.

This is a "just how stupid CAN I make this song?" thing. Took me about 20 minutes - whaddya want? I could do a rewrite, but then the song wouldn't sound as stupid. I think I did a damned fine job of including the stupidity element, if I do say so myself.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: Amos
Date: 25 Jul 04 - 11:52 AM

Yeah, I know the concept but I always attributed it to Chinese ceramic artists from the Yang dynasty or something. ANyway, rhyming pretenth with seventh certainly is gonna protect you from the gods getting pissed off. It's perfect camouflage. Makes ya look like a regular ole humanoid slob going about his business!!

"No hubris here!!"

"These are not the Creative Individuals you are looking for". LOL!!


A

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: Once Famous
Date: 25 Jul 04 - 01:14 PM

Limited repertoire?

How many different ways can you spell or believe bullshit?

No Foolstroupe, I envy no one. If you find writing a stupid web forum in old English talent, you are even more laughable.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: Jeri
Date: 25 Jul 04 - 01:45 PM

"How many different ways can you spell or believe bullshit?"

Exactly!

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: Once Famous
Date: 25 Jul 04 - 05:46 PM

Exactly what?

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 25 Jul 04 - 05:56 PM

That wasn't some kind of coded sneer on my part Georgiansilver - it was a straightforward question. "Blessed" can be pronounced two ways, and the word has a slightly different role according to which way it is pronounced.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 25 Jul 04 - 06:17 PM

McG of H sorry if it came across wrongly but was not having a go at you...just simply trying to explain. Be Blessed.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: Peace
Date: 25 Jul 04 - 06:54 PM

jOhn from Hull can spell bullshit in lotsa ways. He is the man.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 25 Jul 04 - 07:38 PM

Well Done Brucie!

"No Foolstroupe, I envy no one. If you find writing a stupid web forum in old English talent, you are even more laughable. "

Definitely the Green Eyed Monster! Shouting in a verbal argument is the proof that you have lost: in a text only argument, the argumentum ad hominem, which seems to be your main debating tactic, is the ultimate proof.

And My Virtual Fooles Troupe is a Web site, not a forum: that comment only reveals that you are not capable of doing proper research - unfortunately another strike against you for your claim as an expert in any field, let alone Folk Music.

Robin

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: Don Firth
Date: 25 Jul 04 - 07:40 PM

Marty, when you drop a post like the ones you drop, your supposed to scoop it into a plastic bag and dispose of it properly.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: Once Famous
Date: 25 Jul 04 - 10:55 PM

Foolstroupe, you are a sniveling whiner.

You really don't impress me.

As far as what I know about folk music or music in general, I don't have to justify anything to you, pig breath.

Debate with you? Why bother? Who would want to debate with someone who knows so little about anything? I wouldn't waste mny time with your idiotic, self serving web site.

My favorite and most effective debating skill is to just to tell you to fuck off, because you are just so unworthy.

Don, your remark was about as funny as the egg always on your dirty face. Really, Don. You are about as interesting as white bread, which is really your outlook on life.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: Blackcatter
Date: 25 Jul 04 - 11:08 PM

Boy can't you just feel the love!

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 26 Jul 04 - 02:06 AM

"the argumentum ad hominem, which seems to be your main debating tactic"
Point conceded to Robin I think!

"As far as what I know about folk music or music in general, I don't have to justify anything" ... even abusing people... so what respect for your research talent do you get MG?

"My favourite and most effective debating skill is to just to tell you to fuck off" ... correction ... ONLY skill, it seems from the evidence presented here...

On occasions, I do like a good fresh baked white bread....

So I'm a Winner, or is that a Winer....

This posted on behalf of Robin by
Bottel the Winer of
The Fooles Troupe

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 26 Jul 04 - 03:38 AM

Fresh baked bread...with wine(or is it whine) with a wholesome "cheese" is good for the inner person. Be Blessed.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: jacqui.c
Date: 26 Jul 04 - 03:43 AM

Do you think it's Marty's time of the month or something? He does seem to be particularly strident and emotional at the moment. Maybe he's started going through the change........

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 26 Jul 04 - 06:02 AM

... just lack of bran mate....

... and my typing was checked - I did not mean 'brain'...

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 26 Jul 04 - 04:13 PM

If the stick is stirring the shit-pot.....

It will ALWAYS stink

Sincerely,

Gargoyle

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: mcgrathof altcar
Date: 26 Jul 04 - 04:39 PM

its nice to be nice

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: Don Firth
Date: 26 Jul 04 - 04:55 PM

Well, now, let's not be too hard on Marty. It must be admitted that he does have fairly lucid moments from time to time. For example:

It was some years after he had emerged from the Dumpster and attempted to pass as human that he was arrested in a rural area outside of Chicago and charged with lewd and lascivious conduct. Unable to find any of his usual chickens or sheep, he discovered himself passing a pumpkin patch. He explained to the judge that, "A pumpkin is soft and squishy inside and I didn't think there was anyone around for miles." Marty went on to say that he picked out a particularly attractive pumpkin, one that turned him on, and that he felt was appropriate to his purposes, cut a hole in it, and proceeded to. . . .

So much in love was he that he didn't even see the Cook County police cruiser pull up, the door open, and Officer Brenda MacDougall get out and walk up to him. She watched him for awhile, not knowing whether to be totally disgusted or to laugh her head off. Finally, she said, "'Excuse me, but do you realize that you're screwing a pumpkin?"

Startled, he dropped the pumpkin, which shattered messily on the blacktopped road, and stood there like a deer literally caught in the headlights with his fly unzipped and his glory displayed to all the world. Bewildered for a moment at getting caught in the act, but (as we all realize by now) having never known an emotion like embarrassment, he had a sudden flash of sheer brilliance.

"A pumpkin!!??? " he said, as if shocked and surprised. "Ye gods! Is it midnight already!!???"

They booked him anyway.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 26 Jul 04 - 05:17 PM

"My favorite and most effective debating skill is to just to tell you to fuck off..."

That sums it up pretty well. "Effective" in more or less the same sense as using a banana to drive in a nail.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: Blackcatter
Date: 26 Jul 04 - 05:49 PM

Umm Don,

Following the logic of the (albeit modernized) Cinderella story, was he screwing the tailpipe of a limo?

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: Don Firth
Date: 26 Jul 04 - 06:18 PM

Well, according to Officer MacDougall, it was a pumpkin. But it was pretty dark. . . .

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: Don Firth
Date: 26 Jul 04 - 06:23 PM

. . . and judging from the bizarre suggestions he has made to most of us at one time or another, Marty isn't especially particular.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 26 Jul 04 - 07:30 PM

All you need is Love...la, la, la, la, la...All you need is...

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 26 Jul 04 - 07:33 PM

Oh Don. You seem to have dispelled the rumour that it was a grape!
Oh well. Be Blessed.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: Don Firth
Date: 26 Jul 04 - 08:15 PM

Well, as they said, it was dark. A grape might have been adequate. . . .

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: Once Famous
Date: 26 Jul 04 - 10:36 PM

This attempt at humor by Don Filth is just so lame!

It smacks of an over 70 year old, completely out of touch person who has nothing better to do than write stupid shit because his days of getting laid are so far over, along with making decent music and not leaving his house without wearing a Depends diaper.

Pathetic.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: MAG
Date: 26 Jul 04 - 10:53 PM

Ah yes, "Martin." You so remind me of this Broward County lawyer I once knew. Chip on his shoulder big as the rock of Gibralter. Anybody he thought played better than he did came in   for constant put-downs and various rude behavior. Only friend was one nice guy who felt sorry for him.

Your name wouldn't be Steve, would it?

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 26 Jul 04 - 11:04 PM

All you need is Bran...la, la, la, la, la... All you need is...

or maybe Sennapod Tea...


"It smacks of an over 70 year old"

Happy Birthday Don!

and I don't think it's nice to smack 70 year olds...

Robin

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 26 Jul 04 - 11:14 PM

Hey! This thread is for feuds that AREN'T really feuds. Take this war with Martin Gibson somewhere else, people. (Of course, that would mean not having the last word...aw, forget it!)

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: Amos
Date: 27 Jul 04 - 12:10 AM

For example, I really do not have anything against Little Hawk, a veritable Prince among men. Even though I temporarily took away his damned hand-puppet! :>) I know he's going to just have to put it back on, though. He's addicted to certain behaviours and won't be able not to become SHatner once again. But I can forgive him.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 27 Jul 04 - 12:36 AM

There you go. Now we're back on track here. Feuds that aren't really feuds are the subject of the hour.

(Like Chongo's feud with Martin Gibson, for example.)

I used to also attack the NYCFTTS regularly...partly just to attack Spaw...and partly because it gave me a way to promote its alternative, the WSSBA. I did think that the James Taylor Center for Catatonic Blandness, on the other hand, was a simply brilliant notion on Spaw's part, and I never attacked it at all.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 27 Jul 04 - 04:33 AM

This is not a war with Martin!! I believe we are all responding to his attention seeking behaviour as we worry about the poor guy becoming neurotic. If we failed to respond the poor guy would curl up in a corner and cry. Be nice to him. Be Blessed.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: Don Firth
Date: 27 Jul 04 - 12:54 PM

My humor is lame, Marty? You seem to be the only one who isn't laughing.

Don Firth

P. S.: You can't spell for sour owl jowls either!

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 27 Jul 04 - 01:09 PM

Don, you and Martin should consider costarring in a new edition of "The Odd Couple". :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Jul 04 - 01:18 PM

More like "The three hundred Spartans" with Don as the invading Greek army. Martin as the Spartans is well outnumbered and bound to be defeated..but not without putting up a good fight. Be Blessed

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: GUEST,Georgiansilver at work
Date: 27 Jul 04 - 01:22 PM

Sorry...forgot that I would appear as guest but you would have known me by the sign off eh??? Be Blessed.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: Don Firth
Date: 27 Jul 04 - 01:52 PM

But I digress. . . .

No, I have no feud with Marty. In fact, I'm grateful to him for providing me with such a deserving target.

I've been keeping my nose to the grindstone and doing a lot of serious writing lately, and having just finish a difficult chapter on the magnum opus I'm working on, I thought I'd take a break and try my hand at combining the styles of Max Shulman (Barefoot Boy with Cheek, The Feather Merchants) and Don Marquis (archy and mehitabel), with a sprinkling of Dave Barry and a lot of my own prodigious wit (I have learned from the Masters, such as Stilly River Sage's father).

I admit that it's an experiment in writing, but even though Marty seems to be sulking, I'm fairly pleased with the results so far.

No feud, at least on my part. Just havin' fun.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: Blackcatter
Date: 27 Jul 04 - 01:52 PM

Yeah GS - we certainly can trust all the guest posts which try to sound like a member.

Sacred Insect

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: Amos
Date: 27 Jul 04 - 01:59 PM

Max Shulman was one of my favorites, Don, right up there with the great Thurber, and archie.

Toujours gai!!


A

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: Don Firth
Date: 27 Jul 04 - 03:19 PM

Amos, I've got a funny one about my relationship with Max Shulman. Several hundred years ago, I was in a high school creative writing class (senior elective). The teacher assigned us a short story and gave us a deadline. I had an idea for a short story: something very "serious and literary." But—I had been reading Barefoot Boy with Cheek, and just for fun and on my own time, I wrote a zany story along that line. Outrageous characters and really dippy humor. I was having so much fun with it, that the deadline crept up on me and suddenly there it was and I hadn't done anything on the serious story I had in mind. So to save my butt, I turned in the Shulman-esque story, fully expecting to get maybe a C-minus and a comment from the teacher, like "Now REALLY, Don!"

She loved it! Normally a somewhat stereotypically stiff high school English teacher, she howled with laughter when she read it—and sent it in to the Atlantic Monthly high school short story contest. It didn't win, but it did get an honorable mention in the humor department, with some very nice, encouraging comments from the judges.

I don't have the story anymore, because the handwritten copy that I turned in (which she sent to AM) was the only one I had. But it did teach me a valuable lesson:   don't knock yourself out trying to be "serious and literary." Just write what you enjoy writing.
###. . . and Don Maquis—

Who among the greatest poets of history can match such marvels as those to be found in works like "archy interviews a pharaoh":

little archy
forty centuries of thirst
look down upon you
oh by isis
and by osiris
says the princely raisin
and by pish and phthush and phthah
by the sacred book perembru
and all the gods
that rule from the upper
cataract of the nile
to the delta of the duodenum
i am dry
i am as dry
as the next morning mouth
of the dissipated desert
as dry as the hoofs
of the camels of timbuctoo
little fussy face
i am as dry as the heart
of a sand storm
at high noon in hell
i have been lying here
and there
for four thousand years
with silicon in my esophagus
and gravel in my gizzard
thinking
thinking
thinking
of beer

(A moment of silence . . . I am in awe)

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: catspaw49
Date: 27 Jul 04 - 04:47 PM

Hey Garg.......Ya' still out there? This thread is pretty pathetic. I mean it started off as a kinda' funny idea but went downhill pretty quick.

I recall as you do I'm sure, a time when we would have a go at each other and others too and it really got to boiling. You predicted back then that it would lead to a dumbing down even more significant than that which you argued was already happening. I hate to admit that you, you shit filled gutter spout, were right.......but alas you were. The current crop of "feuds," like the current crop of threads, are on a sub-par level at the very least and more like the usual net style bullshit rather than Mudcat. So there ya' go Greg.....I'll take responsibility but I won't apologize..........Or maybe I should apologize and not take responsibility. Fuckit, I'll have an order of both and you can join me......I mean you may have predicted it, but you have some culpability here as well..........

As to your thread Hawk...........We have had some great fake feuds, you and I, but the funniest non-feud I remember is one where Kendall started a thread about Gordon Bok's new songbook entitled, "Gordon Bok Fans." I took it off into the idea of fan, the wind moving device, and went on at great length over several days about Bok's new line of fans and how you could get one free with a songbook or something along those lines. Kendall kept coming in and telling me that Gordon sometimes read the threads but I figured it was such an obvious joke he'd enjoy it. Turns out gordon isn't endowed with anything but a straightlaced sense of humor and he didn't get it at all. Missed the joke entirely!!! He didn't get the "gordon Bok Special Edition Amish-Australian Pitchfork Moustache Tuner" either.........****sigh****..................


Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: GUEST,Blackcatter
Date: 27 Jul 04 - 04:57 PM

Gee,

Some people got no sense of humor.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: jacqui.c
Date: 27 Jul 04 - 05:29 PM

Don - your writing will probably put you in line for Snog of the Week - be warned!

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: Don Firth
Date: 27 Jul 04 - 05:42 PM

(Blush!) Aw, shucks. . . .

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 27 Jul 04 - 05:42 PM

I like your style Don but definitely not snog of the week from me.....
Be Blessed.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 27 Jul 04 - 06:19 PM

The trouble with your ideas, Spaw, is that sometimes they are simply so far out there that...that...what was I talking about?

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: Amos
Date: 27 Jul 04 - 06:23 PM

GS:

I don't think anyone on the Cat wants to get any snogs from you. We're too busy choking and spewing all those goddamed blessings.

Thanks, Spaw. It is very encouraging to see you crawl out of the woodwork once a month and tell us how much funnier things used to be!!

At least it helps reinforce my confidence that my meory still works. :>)

A

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 27 Jul 04 - 06:49 PM

Those who want things to be funnier must themselves do something about it.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 27 Jul 04 - 07:03 PM

Good thread you started here LH. I've not had time to read it all, as I've been away a few days. But I must pick you up on the suggestion that Teribus and Wolfgang are similar. I had you down as a Mudcatter gifted with rare insight until I saw this. And you didn't leave it there. You said BOTH were like DougR! I expect I'll soon be reading that all three are like William Shatner.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 27 Jul 04 - 07:03 PM

Was actually talking to someone I consider an intellegent and articulate friend Amos. If you choose to choke and spew over my offerings that's up to you.
Be Blessed.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: catspaw49
Date: 27 Jul 04 - 11:45 PM

Actually Amos, even with the shinola at present, I'd be here more often except this old computer has just about had it. dodgy ethernet card along with old age makes Roadrunner slow even!!!! Sometimes it makes it not at all!!! This thing was new when I signed on here in '98 and I've gotten great service but the times ain't just a changin', they done changed. I now require a reboot about 10 times a day and sometimes then the damn thing still won't work...........***sigh***...........

Hello?......Dell?.......We need to talk.............

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: Amos
Date: 28 Jul 04 - 12:03 AM

Try an IMAC, Spawzer!! You'll never regret it!!

A

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: Blackcatter
Date: 28 Jul 04 - 12:17 AM

My old Commodore 64 is still around somewhere. Uses tha new-fangled cassette tape drive.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: Don Firth
Date: 28 Jul 04 - 02:24 PM

KayPro II, anybody?

I just thought I'd report in. I just had another channeling contact with Cyril. He felt that Marty should know that it is possible that he was not totally abandoned by she who bore him.

As you may recall, she who bore him fled the Dumpster in panic and disgust after first glimpsing what she had just let . . . loose on an unsuspecting world. Considering his pathetic state (which has remained pretty much the same all these years), one might think that she was a bit callous deserting it him that way (although who could blame her?).

Well, Cyril (the soul of The Vererable Bede and many, many others, including Voltaire, reincarnated in the form of a city-dwelling raccoon) told me that, after he encouraged Marty to leave the relative safety and security of the Dumpster that had been his life-long home and try to build a life in the Outside World, he (Cyril) often returned, just to check the latest menu to be found in the Dumpster. The overgrown vacant lot in which he lived offered little in the way of comestibles, and he had found that Dumpsters, particularly those behind restaurants and apartment buildings, frequently offered a good variety of nutritional treats. Anyway, during his frequent visits to the Dumpster in question, Cyril noted a strange, recurring event. Regularly, once a year—as best as he could recall from what Marty had told him, on the anniversary of the night in which Marty was let born—a mysterious woman, her identity concealed by (all together, now) a Long Black Veil, crept into the alley, skulked through the shadows to the Dumpster, then quickly and furtively glancing this way and that, lifted the lid of the Dumpster, threw in a birthday cake, then fled down the alley into the mist.

Cyril wanted Marty to know.

(I'm all choked up.)

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: jacqui.c
Date: 28 Jul 04 - 02:28 PM

Keep going Don - you could become Mudcat's Charles Dickens.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 28 Jul 04 - 04:23 PM

This thread is like the song....

There was a little bird
No bigger than a turd<
Sitting on a tellephone pole
He ruffled up his neck
And shit about a peck
He puckered up his little

ASSHOLE - ASSHOLE - ASSHOLE

If little turd didn't keep pumping his own colon - this thread would have atrophied and died.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: Don Firth
Date: 28 Jul 04 - 06:08 PM

Thank you, jacqui.c. That is my fond ambition.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: Once Famous
Date: 28 Jul 04 - 08:19 PM

Dickens

How about just a dick.

Hey Don. Paint a little hole on the top of your head and put a big rubber band around your ears and you and your schmuck could pose as twins.

I still find your writing much less interesting than anything else I've taken the time to just scan................and pan.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 28 Jul 04 - 09:02 PM

"Scan and Pan" - the motto of the Anti-Intellectual.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Jul 04 - 09:05 PM

Get the damn Dell. Spaw! We miss you and need you. With Martin being a smacked ass all the time, it's getting boring.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: Once Famous
Date: 28 Jul 04 - 09:37 PM

No, "Fool" stroupe the motto of Uncle-Intellectual.

Scan and pan, as in wasting one's time with shit writing that's posing as intellectual.

It's not. How can someone be an intellectual barbing everyday with someone in cyberspace using a fake name while they are getting a kick out of it?

Intellectuals do greater things than that. They don't hang around web forums just pretending to be intellectuals.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 28 Jul 04 - 09:59 PM

Well Said MG!

"someone in cyberspace using a fake name"

Your mirror is broken?

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 28 Jul 04 - 10:04 PM

"Intellectuals do greater things than that. They don't hang around web forums just pretending to be intellectuals. "

Sorry to see you leave Marty.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: Once Famous
Date: 28 Jul 04 - 10:06 PM

No, I've always claimed that Martin Gibson is a fake name and a character that I care to portray on this forum only. Why? For my own entertainment as I have been saying.

And if you had any brains, you would realize I was directing my statement at pseudo-intellectuals like yourself who do very little but wasting their time trying to one-up someone as myself, who doesn't give a shit what you say or do.

get it now?

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 29 Jul 04 - 12:43 AM

I find it is so understimulating, Marty, to one's intellect (and somewhat depressing) when someone obviously desirous of engaging me in a batle of wits turns up with only half the normal issue of armament.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: Don Firth
Date: 29 Jul 04 - 12:48 PM

". . . entertainment. . . ."

Why do you think I'm writing up the saga of you early days, Marty? Pure entertainment (well . . . because it's about you, it can't be all that pure). And it's cute that you keep accusing me of trying to sound intellectual when all I am is a pair of typing hands channeling the soul of a raccoon. But then, to you, a soup can label would probably sound intellectual.

The reason Marty "scans and pans" is that he can't read without moving his lips as he points at the words. He gets dirty finger marks all over his computer screen and after reading more than a paragraph or two, he has to stop because his mouth is tired (not to mention his brain—actually, it's hard to mention his brain at all without having to suppress a guffaw!). That explains the scanning part. He pans anything he doesn't understand, and if you write anything longer than a couple of sentences, by the time he reaches the last sentence, he's forgotten the first, so of course it doesn't make sense to him.

It really amazes me that he's able to handle a word like "intellectual." It's five whole syllables! Now, if he only had at least a foggy idea of what the word means. . . .

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: akenaton
Date: 29 Jul 04 - 05:20 PM

I like Gargoyles posts....His insults are all "brain teasers"

Nobody splashes the acid like Garg.,..Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: Once Famous
Date: 29 Jul 04 - 06:10 PM

Don, you are a testicle in formaldihyde. what's funny about what you write about me is that it is so far off base and that you waste your time even doing it. I don't waste my time panning the crap you write, Don. I gain time by not reading it. so do others.

It's amazing that you can type at all don, when your finger is in your ass at the same time.

You know what, maybe I can start writing some fiction about you. But you wouldn't like it one bit. I can call the charachter Don Frith or Don Filth. That's not you is it Don? So it wouldn't matter what I said about you, would it?

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 29 Jul 04 - 06:27 PM

Perhaps you should start writing fiction about Don.....Martin! Might show that you have some usable brain power if your composition proved as successful as Dons literal triumph.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: Don Firth
Date: 29 Jul 04 - 06:52 PM

Okay, Marty, your on! Show us what you can do!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 29 Jul 04 - 08:52 PM

Marty, the level of intellectual involvement of your constant childish snipes and jibes and cussing is about as entertaining as a Christian Wet T-shirt Competition.

I have generously given details where you could find some of the output of my intellect. You have claimed to be capable of exceeding my level, and also claimed expertise with knowledge and experience of Folk Music, but have not yet given us a URL to investigate the output of your intellect.

I would be interested in 'scanning and panning' (one should respect one's opponent by only using the same level of intellect) some of your output, but I suspect that it just is all between your ears - that's about the size of it.

I look forward to intensely studying your mighty thesis on Don... I can probably spare a minute or two....

Robin

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: Blackcatter
Date: 29 Jul 04 - 10:29 PM

What exactly, in your mind, is a Christian Wet T-shirt Competition? I've seen Christian boobs - they can be as fun to watch as any!

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 29 Jul 04 - 11:22 PM

Ahh! but that's the whole point... you only get to see tee T-shirts...

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: Amos
Date: 29 Jul 04 - 11:59 PM

They wet them before they put them on, then they judge them as wet tee shirts, still not worn, then they take them home and dry them out before wearing them.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 30 Jul 04 - 12:11 AM

... because nice girls wouldn't behave the way I have some do at some competitions - you might think that the competition was really about exposed body parts ...

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 30 Jul 04 - 10:09 AM

Come on Martin, this is your biggest chance to become known for something positive....please don't overlook it.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 30 Jul 04 - 10:27 AM

"wouldn't behave the way I have some do"

Now Wait On! That was a typo! I really meant

"wouldn't behave the way I have SEEN some do"

I have never organised such a competition....

[:-E)

Robin

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: Blackcatter
Date: 30 Jul 04 - 11:21 AM

Gee and I was beginning to imagine you as a contestant...

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 30 Jul 04 - 11:55 AM

I know I have pulled some boobs in my life, but that suggestion is ridiculous!

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 30 Jul 04 - 12:16 PM

O.K all of you just stop that tittering!

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: Once Famous
Date: 30 Jul 04 - 12:48 PM

Christian girls in west T-shirts can be OK, provided they did not go to that famous Catholic school "Our Lady of Perpetual Guilt."

As for writing fiction about people here, forget it. The point is that doing so is a complete waste of time as guys like Don wallow their life away doing such drivel.

As for "fool" sroupe's intellect, I believe that I have read a few poems by him in a men's room stall, underneath the articulate and imaginative artwork of some Mexican guy.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: Jeri
Date: 30 Jul 04 - 12:55 PM

Spaw, (if you manage to ever get it up again), we desperately need you around here. See if someone out there has a DaVinci that can fix computers, or get a new one!

The next device ought to be one that extracts one's head from one's butt. I see something like a tube and a thing that comes out of it that looks sort of like the staple-remover second set of jaws on an alien (from Alien). You could then stick it, nay, SHOVE it in the auction. We could purchase it for ourselves, but how many people realize it when their own head is up their butts? Perhaps we could buy it for 'next time', or just leave it on the desk at work, and point to it at appropriate times.

I miss you, Spaw,
Be Fucked --
Jeri

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 30 Jul 04 - 01:00 PM

mmmm sorry you have an inability to meet the challenge Martin. I really though there was something in you that was made of "sterner stuff" as we Brits put it. Another Brit expression comes to mind too.."All mouth and no trousers". As you are unable to meet the challenge...perhaps a few of your usual expletives or insults would not go amiss..you sure are good at those.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: jacqui.c
Date: 30 Jul 04 - 02:01 PM

Oh - and I was so looking forward to seeing what Marty could produce! We'll just have to stick with maestro Firth - he obviously has no equal in this field. When's the next installment Don?

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: Once Famous
Date: 30 Jul 04 - 02:24 PM

It's not a question of being up for the challange.

To me it's just too fucking stupid.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: Don Firth
Date: 30 Jul 04 - 03:06 PM

When you suggested that you might start writing some fiction about me, you piqued my curiousity and you got us all into a state of excited anticipation of your offerings. And now you disappoint us all by wimping out. That's really too bad. But we all understand.

Marty's just afraid of people waiting with their sharpened editorial blue pencils. He knows he's not up to the challenge, so (in his usual masterful prose), he calls it "too fucking stupid" and slinks away.

Well, that's okay, Marty. Get back in your Dumpster and play with your flies.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: Once Famous
Date: 30 Jul 04 - 03:11 PM

No you fucking old idiot.

You can jerk-off in your wife's panties if your interest was so piqued.

You know that I have such a way with words that I could blow you out of the water if I wanted to. I just do not feel it is time well spent. Writing fiction here seems not very rewarding to me. while you are doing that, I am working on songs to perform for a real audience. Take a look at who is the pathetic one.

I have showed some of your posts to my friends and they find what you do and say as very sad.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: Don Firth
Date: 30 Jul 04 - 03:52 PM

Well, let me see. . . .

I know you're afraid to participate, Marty, but as an exercise, let's see if you can write something without referring to "fucking" or "jerking off."

No? Well, I understand. Some people's writing tends to be centered exclusively on wish-fulfillment based on what they feel they are missing in real life.

By the way, if this is all such a "complete waste of time" and "too fucking stupid," why are you still here, reading it all and commenting on it?

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: Once Famous
Date: 30 Jul 04 - 04:05 PM

To fuck with your head, Don.

And to have some politically incorrect fun and make you ask such stupid questions.

Thanks for the on-going opportunity you always present.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: akenaton
Date: 30 Jul 04 - 04:12 PM

Excuse me for butting in, but does this infantile nonesense prove anything or entertain anyone...I think not..
With so much happening politically and musically, have you both not more to do with your time?
Every other thread has you two arseholes shouting at one another.
What a pair of egos!!

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: Don Firth
Date: 30 Jul 04 - 05:02 PM

I'll let somebody else answer that.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: Once Famous
Date: 30 Jul 04 - 05:28 PM

Ake, you are not excused for butting in. For you, there is no excuse. Please go find a Shatner thread to whine about. I never participate in those. The joke is so lame, already.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: jacqui.c
Date: 30 Jul 04 - 05:33 PM

Ake - I think you'll find that, in general, Martin starts the arguments with his unwarranted attacks on other mudcatters. He has, of late, become more and more insulting and foulmouthed and has a real talent for souring every thread that he takes part in.

I've said before that it might do some good if that type of post was just ignored completely as he is obviously looking for the attention that he must lack in other areas of his life. Unfortunately it's not always that easy to ignore such rudeness and I must admit that I've really been enjoying Don's story - it makes up for the number of threads that I've stopped reading because Martin has spoiled them.

Don may be carrying on the argument but he is maintaining a decency that Martin seems to be incapable of and is, at least entertaining. I think, if Martin was not carrying out what seems to be a vendetta against some mudcatters Don would not be pushing back. Where does the problem start?

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: Once Famous
Date: 30 Jul 04 - 05:52 PM

Jacqui C.

I have no vendetta or agenda. If you find don's posts entertaining fine for you. I knew moving to those extra wide tampons would be good for you.

As far as foul-mouthed, I'm sorry you so easily offend. You keep reading my posts anyway and always will.

Now what thread is next? any suggestions?

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: Don Firth
Date: 30 Jul 04 - 06:29 PM

And there you have it!

Actually, ake, jacqui.c has summed it up pretty well, but maybe I could add a bit.

I can't speak for Martin Gibson (hell, he can hardly speak for himself without larding his discourse with the juicier vocabulary of the ancient Anglo-Saxons), but as for me, the apparent hostility is merely a vehicle for sallies of wit and humor. I go my own way, and if Marty wishes to follow me around (as he does several others) and make his usual puerile remarks (see examples above), I can at least counterbalance the disgust he leaves in his wake (like the slime trail of the common garden slug) by attempting to give those who follow these exchanges a smile or a chuckle. This is hardly my main mission in life (as Marty likes to think), it is mere recreation, and provides an occasional break from my more serious writing.

Be of good cheer. If you don't enjoy the exchanges, then the logical thing to do is to just skip them.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 30 Jul 04 - 07:21 PM

I too am sad to see that Martin has wimped out of the challenge. Any person who can compose songs should at least be able to compose a little fictional tale to amuse us. It was an unacceptable challenge for him so I suggest we just let it go now. Let him off the hook so to speak. Best wishes.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 30 Jul 04 - 07:25 PM

Sorry but should have mentioned...Martin has had another literal challenge on the "Mudcat bad writing" thread. So far he has not responded but he does know of it as I sent him a PM.
The incredible story starts with a piece of "bad writing" from a GUEST called literal genius and has been added to. Please view and feel free to comment. Best wishes.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 31 Jul 04 - 12:08 AM

Those who can - do.

Those who can't, try to belittle the efforts of those who can.

Those who can, have no need to belittle the efforts of others: those who belittle the efforts of others can never be first raters, only at best second raters who always pretend that their offal-output is wildly funny. It is, of course, to their limited uneducated unsophisticated intellect, and they will never be able to tell the difference. When challenged to a fair fight, bullies always wimp out, often with even greater outbursts of abuse & profanity.

Never try to teach a pig to sing - it is just a waste of your time and annoys the pig.


"I am working on songs to perform for a real audience. Take a look at who is the pathetic one."

Ah, we've had discussion of this type of performer before in other threads - the ones that drive the audence away....

Robin

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 01 Aug 04 - 07:42 AM

Still waiting for you to meet the literal challenge Martin.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: Once Famous
Date: 01 Aug 04 - 10:48 AM

Sorry, but like others have done for years, you will have to talk to my publisher and pay for any of my serious writing. Mudcat is not part of my freelance agenda.

I don't see why I should compromise my prinicpals on that.

You can now ponder that as about as true an answer that I can give you, because it is.

I'm going on vacation in about a half hour and won't be near a computer for almost a week. Try real life once in a while, Don.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 01 Aug 04 - 11:15 AM

You are the wimp that has been talked about on other thread....You attempt to bully people but when put in the position where you are facing a challenge..you make all kinds of feeble excuses and wimp out.
Enjoy your holiday..you and your family.
Best wishes...Oh and Be Blessed.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 01 Aug 04 - 02:10 PM

refresh

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: el ted
Date: 02 Aug 04 - 05:17 AM

Red Post

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 02 Aug 04 - 06:27 AM

"I don't see why I should compromise my prinicpals on that."

Well, mate, since you can't spell, I know you must have your bowels crossed - you are talking s...

Robin

Green Post
Red Post
Pink Post
Purple Prose
Red Post

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: GUEST,Don Firth (with a crumbled cookie)
Date: 02 Aug 04 - 11:19 PM

I'm having computer problems right now and for some reason I am unable to log in and re-up my cookie. I note that I have two personal messages that I can't get at. So if the person or persons who sent them to me reads this, sorry for the delay, but I'll get back to you as soon as I get the problem solved. In the meantime. . . .

I just had another communiqué from Cyril.

Don't be fooled by this business of Martin Gibson going on vacation—or that he doesn't want to waste his literary talents (talk about a member of a null-class!) writing for free for us bums. Nothing but a feeble excuse, folks. The truth is that, in addition to his other obvious handicaps, he probably won't be able to type for several days (his last message was typed by someone else). It seems, according to Cyril, that Marty had grandiose notions that he could write something brilliant (at least in his own estimation) and completely dazzle us, but he was completely stuck for ideas (not an unusual happenstance in his life). While he was rummaging around for material to use, somebody slammed the toilet seat on his fingers.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 03 Aug 04 - 02:12 AM

I just knew he was faking a vacation... LOL!

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: GUEST,Longtime member who is tired of the crap
Date: 03 Aug 04 - 10:32 AM

Those who feed Martin are as bad as he is. If his posts are ignored, he stops posting. You can say you're having fun, but you are as responsible as he is for ruining some good threads. One post from him does not ruin a thread, but when you respond, he posts, and posts, and posts.

Also, Georgiansilver was supposedly leaving BS Land in a huff because of MG and other bad people. Funny how that hasn't happened, eh? Maybe, just maybe, GS needs the same attention fix as MG.

Both are sad and contribute little to the Mudcat. The rest of you are as immature as grade school boys talking about poop.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 03 Aug 04 - 10:44 AM

Why is it always some GUEST that comes on and tries to inflame matters?
Immaturity like beauty is in the eye of the beholder. With regard to contributing to Mudcat, perhaps you should read some of the postings and make a value judgement..not just some vague opinion....Please get some true identity before playing your silly games.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: jacqui.c
Date: 03 Aug 04 - 11:12 AM

I've suggested a number of times that ignoring unpleasant posts is probably the best thing to do. Unfortunately, sometimes these get so bad that the temptation to reply is too great to be resisted - paticularly when it would seemt that the person concerned is gunning for a particular individual in a really nasty way.

In view of the insulting nature of a lot of the posts it would take a semi saint not to make any sort of riposte and I don't think we've got many of them on Mudcat.

In the present case it has been shown that the person in question is just using bullying tactics as, when challenged, he is unwilling or unable to show what he can do.

We have also had the bonus of Don's brilliant pieces, which have made me laugh out loud a number of times - that was a real treat.

On the question of posting as a guest - I can't think of anything that I would want to say that I wouldn't put my identity to. If you feel strongly enough that you have a valid point don't be afraid to make it under your own identity - most of the people here would respect your view, even if they might not agree with it

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: Ellenpoly
Date: 03 Aug 04 - 12:28 PM

There are aspects of GUEST longtime member etc... in which I agree.

Especially this:
"Those who feed Martin are as bad as he is. If his posts are ignored, he stops posting. You can say you're having fun, but you are as responsible as he is for ruining some good threads. One post from him does not ruin a thread, but when you respond, he posts, and posts, and posts."

But this:
"Also, Georgiansilver was supposedly leaving BS Land in a huff because of MG and other bad people. Funny how that hasn't happened, eh? Maybe, just maybe, GS needs the same attention fix as MG."

...I think is because a lot of us asked him to reconsider leaving.


AND:
"The rest of you are as immature as grade school boys talking about poop."

I do also think has some validity. Don and GS, among others can be very witty in their posts, but it still only accomplishes keeping the enmity flying.

I just can't help but think we all have better things to write about, and better ways to use our wit rather than against each other. (And of course I don't mean the good natured jibes, of which I am as guilty as the next).

..xx..e

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: GUEST,longtime member
Date: 03 Aug 04 - 02:49 PM

I've never posted as a guest except for in the very beginning several years ago before I became a member.

I'm not a saint, by any means, but I choose to remain a GUEST for this because I have tried to avoid having people like MG attack me. I don't respond when others attack me, other than to initially try to explain myself further. If they're just being malicious, I try my best to ignore them. Because of this, few people do attack me.

GS - you're still new to the Mudcat, yet you have kept MG inflamed from the get go. You're not the only one, but my guess is you've hardly let a day go by in the few months you've been here in which you haven't responded to him in some way. If it's just harmless sparring, that's fine, but there have been a lot of perfectly nice threads (even BS ones) which have gotten nasty because of various people egging MG on or doing what he's doing.

Should I put my name on this post? Maybe, but I don't want people to hunt me down on every thread I post to and attack me. That's happened before and I don't want it to happen again.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: GUEST,Don Firth (still cookie-less)
Date: 03 Aug 04 - 04:37 PM

Well, now, I can certainly understand your frustration.

But speaking of frustration, I have been one of the consistent targets of this particular troll.   For some reason (I think I had the audacity to post something he disagreed with once) he has chosen to fasten on me, and almost every thread I post on, he shows up with his usual comments. Ignoring him doesn't work. I've tried. In fact, ignoring him seems to inflame him all the more. So since I can't seem to get him off my tail, I try to turn the whole thing into a running joke. After all, as an entertainer, responding to a persistent heckler with zingers is a time honored sport.

A lesson in Natural History:   it often happens that when you go on a picnic, the enjoyment of the picnic can be spoiled by one or more yellow jackets that appear just about the time you break out the fried chicken and potato salad, buzz around the food and your face, and general make mega-pests of themselves. They can thoroughly spoil a potentially enjoyable day. And their nature is such that they're going to be there, "bugging" you, whether you ignore them or not.

Well, I learned of a method of dealing with the little buggers beggars:   when you go on a picnic, arm yourself with a piece of meat or fish that is way past it and is beginning to smell very ripe. The smellier the better. Then you hang it from a tree limb some distance away (but not too far). The rotten meat or fish is more pungent than the fragrance of the newly purchased bucket of the Colonel's Favorite Recipe, so while you are enjoying your chicken and potato salad, they are busy with the (to them) more appealing diversion you have provided them with, and with the possible exception of an occasional foray, they will leave you pretty much alone.

In a like manner, a number of promising discussions, some musical and some of a political, sociological, or philosophical nature, have been started, only to be infested by one or more cyber-vermin. The threads have ended up being deserted by those who have something worthwhile to contribute and completely taken over by the pea-brained.

Now, I like to think of the accounts of my communications with Cyril and the shots from my vast quiver of zingers as brilliant sallies of wit. But, if you wish, you may think of them as pieces of rotten, smelly fish. But as long as the pests keep buzzing around them, they aren't getting into the fried chicken.

Don Firth (phewy!!)

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 03 Aug 04 - 07:59 PM

If you look back over my postings GUEST..you will see that I have had some fun myself with Martin Gibson but have not stooped to the level that he/she works at in doing so. It was not really Martin Gibson that gave me most of the grief over my postings or my signing off as such and I have in some ways enjoyed the game with him.
I was however hoping to see him rise to the challenges set for him to produce a piece of writing which he/she had composed....
Thus proving to all that he/she is not just a "wind-up" kind of person.
This has not been forthcoming.
I wait with anticipation.
Incidentally, does my being relatively new to Mudcat have any bearing on what has happened? Also, I have carried on submitting to threads as many people PM'd me and others said such things on the threads that I would have felt I was letting them down if I had confined myself to just the music threads.
Best wishes.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 03 Aug 04 - 08:40 PM

GS - Yes, being relatively new to the Mudcat carries with it the same perils and disadvantages which appy to being relatively new in any other peer group. Remember what it was like in school?

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 03 Aug 04 - 11:10 PM

I particularly liked the sally about getting his finger trapped in the toilet lid... right on the mark too... :-)

and I talk as one who's literary output was scatologically disparaged - I too challenged him as an outright bully and dared him to hold the output of his own soul for possible ridicule in the way he had treated others. All that got was some nonsense about his time being too valuable to waste here - which of course, if it was true, he wouldn't have been here spouting his foul mouthed obscenities at us for quite some time.

I think he got no better than he deserved, and I will repeat any of my similar actions in similar circumstances, without any pity or demur.

When I first joined Mudcat some clever ###### tried to have a go at me by making nasty comments about my intelligence, but as I have said, it's a great pity that when some people challenge me to a battle of wits, they turn up half-armed....

If they try to start a fight, I feel no pity if they end up getting hurt when I defend my self to make them leave ME alone - of course, in the ensuing fracas, some other's toes may get stepped on or a few bits of furniture rearranged, but that's life... :-)

I learned the hard way to play for keeps, at least in a intellectual situation. I still prefer to walk away from a physical beatup - but sometimes bullies insist on chasing you. There's only one thing to do then - hit them once, hard, and put them down for the count, and then leave them alone unless they want more.

But I do enjoy some clever intellectual sparring with friends - spawning creative insults in a friendly way can be fun, but people like Our Fiend Mart Gibberish like to dish it out seriously, but of course get hurt too easily to take it acording to the rules they want to impose on others.

"You right to freedom to swing your fists around stops at the end of my nose" allegedly John Wayne.

Robin

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Feuds that aren't really feuds...
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Aug 04 - 08:48 AM