 sj |
||
|
||
BS: Respect and civility
|
|
|
Subject: BS: Respect and civility From: Georgiansilver Date: 24 Jul 04 - 01:16 PM I am a Christian and intend to treat all I meet with respect and civility but sometimes fail to do this as a result of a human failure.... which is not taking time to think!!!. I love all Gods kids(even those who don't know Him personally) and think that each of us....however brought into the world...however brought up...should be given the benefit of the doubt. You can chastise me for my beliefs.....you can call me whatever names you wish (as Martin does often) but nothing will change my way. Respect and civility for all....even those who like to think of themselves as my enemies. Be Blessed all of you. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: Little Hawk Date: 24 Jul 04 - 01:24 PM A very wise attitude, GS, but it drives certain people crazy. (and I think you know who they are...:-) The reason for that is that certain frequencies just naturally clash with other frequencies, that's all. Remember in the Bible where it advised not to cast your pearls before swine? On the Internet, of course, you can do it without danger. In real life, that's not always the case. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: Amos Date: 24 Jul 04 - 01:24 PM Georgian: Some of choose not to be blessed in the sense you use the word. I think it would be more courteous of you to keep your blessings between yourself and God, instead of using them to brag about your religiosity. It may seem unlikely to you that anyone would not want blessings from you, but I assure you it is so. A |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: Little Hawk Date: 24 Jul 04 - 01:31 PM But that's because it's a custom they associate with certain past events or circumstances they didn't like, isn't it? When I was 17 it would have freaked me out if someone was blessing me all the time...it would have seemed creepy. When I was 22 it would have irritated me. Now I'm fine with it. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: Bill D Date: 24 Jul 04 - 01:56 PM Georgiansilver..no one is trying to "change your way" but some do weary of proselytizing coloring many discussions. religion is something which should be personal and NOT inserted in almost every issue and post. In a forum like this it serves as a lightning rod and divisive issue (others have discovered this...some adapted, some left). It is fine for others to be 'aware' of your particular orientation, but you accomplish **NOTHING** by offering blessings and sanctimonious defensiveness about it all. If your entire personality is so permeated with your religious beliefs that you can barely communicate without incessant 'witnessing', you MUST be prepared for the remarks by those with other belief systems. It is good to live in society with ALLOWS "freedom of religion" so you can go to church and live your life as you please...but PLEASE understand .... "freedom of religion" MUST include "freedom FROM religion" for those who choose. Your messages implicitly suggest that everyone who does not currently believe like you do would be well advised to change and adopt your ferevently held set of beliefs....and that just plain irritates some folks who feel that they can decide for themselves what (and whether) to 'believe'. You MUST know that there are forums devoted to sharing and comparing ideas on Christianity....it would be a pretty good idea to see if you might be better advised to express certain aspects of your concerns in some of those........ |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: Stilly River Sage Date: 24 Jul 04 - 01:57 PM A friend of mine blithely dismisses my complaint that she not appropriate the stories from other cultures into her christian-focus storytelling business. "It's all the same God anyway," she says. No, it's not. But she was raised by a culture with this over-arching view of the world, the "Enlightenment" as it has been called since centuries past by christian practitioners of science and the humanities. Drives me nuts, this christian and eurocentric view of the world. . . it's so narrow minded in the long run. I ignore her "blessings," but instead understand that my friend wishes me well and that the positive energy is enough, even if she never quite understands why I don't wished to be burdoned by her god. SRS |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: Amos Date: 24 Jul 04 - 02:16 PM I think it is disrespectful, but, like many forms of disrespect, I can ignore it by considering the source. A |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: Little Hawk Date: 24 Jul 04 - 02:19 PM It is all the same God, and it must be...if "God" means what it is supposed to mean...God, by definition being the infinite, the unlimited, therefore omnipresent. How could it not be the same God, except in someone's fractured understanding. To recognize that is all the same God is wise, and it leads to tolerance of differing faiths. The problem arises when people think that someone else's limited view of what they think that someone else thinks God is...is being pushed down their throat. But is it? It may be...it may not be. I would take the comment "be blessed" as a general form of good wishes being sent in my direction, not as an attempt to recruit me into an organized religion...but that would depend on who said it to me and how they said it, and where I assumed they were coming from when they said it. I don't see any reason why GS should not end a post with "be blessed". Muslims and people of many other faiths have used expressions of the sort in common vernacular without giving it a second thought. Examples: Spanish - "vaya con Dios" (go with God) Would you be insulted if a Latin American said that to you in parting? I hope not. I don't get the feeling that GS is proselytizing, just that he is extending good wishes. Now, like I say, when I was younger it would have bothered me no end. Georgian Silver is just being who he is. Why is this seen as threatening or condescending? Just because it's different from what you would do? Well, if GS was inclined to react like you, I could guess he could get all upset that you are different from HIM and start suggesting that you do things the way he does (and say "be blessed" at the end of every post), couldn't he? How would you like that? Give it a rest. He isn't hurting anyone by saying "be blessed". |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: Jack the Sailor Date: 24 Jul 04 - 02:21 PM I'm a Christian, Heres what I feel about spreading the "Good News." If I think a person is open to the message, if I think it will do you some good, I'll politely and humbly try to tell them about what my faith has done for me. When I'm witnessing is about the only time you'll see me being humble. I don't want credit for being Christain, It isn't my credit to claim. I don't want praise because I was lucky enough to receive God's gifts. Its not something to brag about. Its not something to Lord over people. It is something to share. While Christians should be civil, civility is not a trait unique to Christians. In fact Christains aren't any more civil than anyone else. I'm glad you are trying to be civil GeorgianSilver, but I would hope that you are doing so as a member of this community, not as paragon of your faith. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: Little Hawk Date: 24 Jul 04 - 02:25 PM If people are this terrified of being preached at (as they see it) they must not be very secure in their own faith (whatever it happens to be based on). :-) OR...they must be very strong believers in conformity. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: Jack the Sailor Date: 24 Jul 04 - 02:30 PM A friend of mine with a fledgling "Gospel Ministry" who claims to respect a certian songwriter, has taken a very secular song and rewritten the words as a testament. I urged my friend to get permission from the songwriter before he performed it publically. That's wrong. SRS. Rewording a folk tale with a Christian message is not a violation of copyright it is not a perversion of the original authors intent. Is it not part of the folk process to change a song or story for the audience? I guess if your friend is acknowledging the sources she isn't doing anything wrong. If she isn't, then it is kind of sleazy. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: saulgoldie Date: 24 Jul 04 - 02:35 PM Is it not fair to accept that there are sensibilities on BOTH sides of the communication who are each deserving of respect and civility? I accept that GS's BB signature is meant in a positive way. But I can also see that some may prefer not to have it directed at them. Why does his "right" to sign off that way supercede their right to not have "his" religion thrust their way? Is that not a reasonable courtesy to ask? Change it around a little: What if someone (say me, for example) genuinely felt that "May a flock of geese make a deposit on your red convertible when the top is down" conoted the same sentiment as "BB?" Would we all just say, "Oh, that is just Saul with his typical, good-natured salutation."? I think not. I am not busting GS in this case. If he wants to bless me, I take it in the spirit that I think he means it. I do suggest, though, that those unwilling recipients of his blessing have a legitimate point, and they deserve respect for their feelings, too. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: Little Hawk Date: 24 Jul 04 - 02:36 PM By the way, I had an acquaintance who was a born-again atheist! What I mean is, he was obsessed with his sacred mission which was to convert all other people to atheism, thus "saving" them, I assume, from the folly of their ways. God, was he annoying. He was just as annoying as some born-again Christians I have run into from time to time. What was really ironical was that he had previously BEEN a born-again Christian, but had changed his mind, because it didn't solve all his problems the way he thought it should have. Thus he got "saved" twice. :-) Once by accepting Jesus, once by rejecting the whole thing as a crock of shit. I understand he was equally pestiferous AS a born-again Christian. In both phases he was utterly convinced that he had the ONE and ONLY WAY to sanity, truth, and salvation. In both phases he showed no regard for other people's right to be who they were. In both phases he pestered the life out of everyone he met. Obviously this guy had a psychological problem that overshadowed the effects of religion or not/religion. He was obsessive and intolerant of those who were different from him. You can err this way quite thoroughly on either side of the divide, folks. It doesn't hurt you if someone says "be blessed", it doesn't hurt you if they don't. But if it really bugs you, then it's a clue to something you could work on in yourself...and I don't mean you have to become religious when I say that. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: Little Hawk Date: 24 Jul 04 - 02:37 PM May your red convertible always shine, saulgoldie. :-) |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: Jack the Sailor Date: 24 Jul 04 - 02:38 PM I don't think people are "terrified" of being preached at just weary and frustrated. You must admit it is tempting to take out all of our frustrations with saturday morning, doorknockering, get us out of bed while we are bleary eyed and cranky, gone before we think of a suitable comeback, door to door, bright eyed, bushy tailed cultists on a "mission", on the people who say they are friends and try to preach to us on an Internet forum. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: Little Hawk Date: 24 Jul 04 - 02:40 PM Yes, Jack, but there is a simple remedy tp the doorknockers. Just strip down to your briefs, then answer the door with a big grin on your face and say, "Hi! Are you here for the orgy?" It works like a charm. They NEVER come back. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: Jack the Sailor Date: 24 Jul 04 - 02:43 PM hmmmmm If anyone is seriously complaining about is the salutation "Be blessed" then I suggest you be grateful how little you have to complain about. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: Little Hawk Date: 24 Jul 04 - 02:44 PM And you can also put a little black sign out front saying "Satanic Church of Atheism and Nihilistic Practices". That stops 'em dead in their tracks. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: Little Hawk Date: 24 Jul 04 - 02:45 PM Right on, Jack. And that appears to me to BE all that they are really complaining about. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: Jack the Sailor Date: 24 Jul 04 - 02:47 PM That's my point LH, People always think of things like that after they have gone. They store up all the clever things they would have said at their door if they weren't so hung over, then they dump them on the first person who says something religious on the Internet. (WARNING I may be exaggerating for humourous effect!!) |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: Bill D Date: 24 Jul 04 - 02:48 PM well, Little Hawk..use the search feature and find Georgiansilver's very first post to Mudcat...it is quite evident in that and other posts that his notion of "being blessed" relates to Jesus and the Christian bible, and NOT just general good wishes.....and with the current leaders of my government sounding very much like they intend to make Conservative Christianity the de facto form of relationship to 'higher powers' and exclude anyone from high office who does not agree, I am pretty durn sensitive to the matter these days. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: Jeri Date: 24 Jul 04 - 02:55 PM Bill, I must have missed the proseletizing. I'd love it if people were just freely able to discus what they wanted to, and if others would try to pay attention to what they were actually saying. In this case, Georgiansilver was talking about Georgiansilver. My friends, whoever they are, should know that I'm interested and willing to talk about their beliefs. If those beliefs make them play nicer, and less likely to log out and take a swipe at somebody, it's a good thing. I'd also love it if people would give some thought to what others care about discussing. If all a person seems to talk about is their religion, chances are I'll just avoid them. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: Georgiansilver Date: 24 Jul 04 - 03:00 PM Amos. I apologise if there appeared to be an element of "bragging" in my statement, It was unintentional if in fact it is there. Bill D..You say I achieve nothing by offering blessings and sanctimonious defensiveness but perhaps I do, even if it is in my own belief.You say "Your messages implicitly suggest that everyone who does not currently believe like you do would be well advised to change and adopt your ferevently held set of beliefs". I would like to know how you arrive at this understanding. Have I in any instance tried to inflict my beliefs on anyone? If so in what way have I tried to do so? Jack the Sailor. I believe my mesaage was "Be respectful and civil". Was I actually claiming credit for being a Christian? To quote you.."I'm glad you are trying to be civil GeorgianSilver, but I would hope that you are doing so as a member of this community, not as paragon of your faith". Which should I then be in your opinion....a member of the community or a paragon of my faith? and which are you please? You seem to have voiced more of your belief than I have. Can I please re-iterate...The source message is "Respect and civility" NOT Christian belief although Christian belief does affect my personal behaviour...and I don't always get it right!!!!. Be Blessed. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: Amos Date: 24 Jul 04 - 03:05 PM I don't recall mentioning being terrified, LH -- condescension is incivil no matter how thinly garbed, yours or anyone else's. GS is imposing on the courtesy of others by placing his rather bizarre belief system on his sleeve in this manner.. We can ignore it, sure. But let's not pretend that is as purely benevolent as it is presented. There are many reasons why not, which I won't go in to here. Suffice it to say that the courteous thing to do is to leave religion to the individual; as I say nothing to dissuade GS from his path, I would prefer a reciprocal respect. And while you may feel you have elevated yourself to a comfortably superior state of awareness from which you can see how others fear these benign blessings, and do so without grounds, let me just say you are mistaken. There is no fear to it, just a mild sense of irritation at the subterfuge involved. Let's hope that's all I have to say on the issue. A |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: Jack the Sailor Date: 24 Jul 04 - 03:06 PM Bill D, You know you are one of my favourite 'catters and we agree more often than not, but I gotta go against you on this one. Lets give Gerogiansilver credit for believing he is blessed and wanting to share it. He's not saying be blessed or he'll support a constitutional ammendment to make you blessed. :) He's not screaming about "activist" judges who are trying to take the "God given blessings" from us. :D He's not even saying "Be Blessed or you will burn in Hell" :LOL I say give him a break. :) |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: Stilly River Sage Date: 24 Jul 04 - 03:17 PM For my friend to suggest that "it's all the same god" even though someone should disagree with her, she is appropriating other religions, and putting HER god above over all others. She doesn't understand that those with other religious beliefs find this rude and uncivil. (I've seen the bumper sticker that perfectly defines her view: "My God is better than Your God.") For her to tell the creation stories of Am. Indian cultures and treat them like cute little stories she can tell at library story hour (when they are considered very important by those Indian cultures), and at the same time, take stories made up by whites to reflect what they think they know about Indians and retell them as if they're Indian in origin is also an insult. I have simply chosen never to discuss these views any more with my friend because she doesn't understand and if I try to make the point I may win the argument but I'd lose a friend who in all other things is wonderful. A bit ditzy, but wonderful. Anyway, you're all speaking as if there is only one god, anyway. Duh. Little you guys know. :) |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: Amos Date: 24 Jul 04 - 03:18 PM GS: Let's put it this way: I am already blessed, and if I need more blessing I will seek it in my own way, from my own sources; so waving your wrist and lisping at me about being blessed is entirely superfluous and unnecessary, thank you very much, and something I am able to do without help or instruction -- especially uninvited help or instruction. If Jack is correct, and you are simply overflowing with your own goodwill about being blessed yourself, then I wish you congratulations and joy from it. But I certainly don't want to hear about it, and least of all on an automatic basis. A |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: Jack the Sailor Date: 24 Jul 04 - 03:19 PM GS, In your first post, it certainly looks like you are saying that there is some relationship between your Christianity and your civility. You also talk a little like you are a martyr. To me claiming martyrdom is bragging. Perhaps you have another explaination. I apparanty didn't know what you are trying to say, I still don't. I took a guess and said what I hoped you were talking about and what I hoped you were not saying. Fact is you have not been very clear and ambiguity invites misinterpretation. A lot of people have been very frank and informative about the message they think they are getting from you. Since you opened the conversation in the first place, maybe the best course for you would be to address our concerns and clearly tell us what you did mean. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: Little Hawk Date: 24 Jul 04 - 03:20 PM Yeah. Be blessed, eh? (Canadian version) The route to blessedness in hoserdom is to always have enough beer and back bacon and to be seen as a really cool dude and be popular with girls. Everybody's got their own take on being blessed. Amos, I follow your line of reasoning, but I do not find GS to be condescending, just well intentioned. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: Georgiansilver Date: 24 Jul 04 - 03:31 PM Your input is appreciated Little Hawk, as usual showing great wisdom. Looking at the intentions of some people on the cat..I can't help but fel some sort of worry about how they are in real life. Do they all speak as they are or do we see what they want us to see? mmmmmm Jack the Sailor thank you also for the space and respect you give. Be Blessed all. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: Oaklet Date: 24 Jul 04 - 03:34 PM And if I could chip in me fourpenn'th- a really, really nice bloke. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: Georgiansilver Date: 24 Jul 04 - 03:42 PM Thank you Dave and I do appreciate your music(Cara). Looking forward to the new CD with "The Faerie Queen" on it. For anyone who has not heard the Folk Group in Lincolnshire called "Cara"...PM Dave(Oaklet) and order the new CDE. You would not be disappointed. Be Blessed. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: Georgiansilver Date: 24 Jul 04 - 03:43 PM Sorry CD not CDE |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: Oaklet Date: 24 Jul 04 - 03:44 PM Thread drift of this severity cannot, under any circumstances be tolerated. But thanks. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: mg Date: 24 Jul 04 - 03:58 PM beats me how an innocuous generic signoff can generate so much animosity in a thread called respect and civility. We are all going to have to learn to be simultaneously more tolerant and ready to stand up mightly to abuses in the name of various religions or we will all die...Will you go after Blessings Barbara next? (hope I didn't give anyone any ideas) .mg |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: kendall Date: 24 Jul 04 - 04:15 PM A wise man, probably Art Thieme, once said, "The best thing that ever came out of ORGANIZED religion, is the music." |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: Jack the Sailor Date: 24 Jul 04 - 04:16 PM Mary you make some good points. But I hope for all our sakes that this thread is not a model for the wider world. It seems that we are not talking about the sign off right now but Georgiansilver's reaction to the way he is treated in the Mudcat because of it. It seems that he got a little steamed up and decided to blow off that steam in this thread. He's done that, a few of us have reacted. Some of us have blown off our own steam. Everyone has made some good points. No one is calling names no one is acting bitter. No harm no foul right? If Georgiansilver is happy with the result, I'm happy. I don't think this thread have any big implications for big international problems. I think and hope its just a few friends getting to know each other better. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: Strollin' Johnny Date: 24 Jul 04 - 04:17 PM I've got the drop on most of you people (Oaklet excepted) because I know GS personally - indeed we applauded one another's singing only last evening. Many of you are totally misreading the guy. I assure you that GS has real reason to feel himself blessed, and that his sign-off of 'Be Blessed' is (a) an expression of thanks for the blessing he feels he has received and, (b) a wish that others with whom he comes into contact be similarly blessed. Why can't those of you are disturbed by the sign-off 'Be Blessed' simply accept that it's made genuinely and with good intent. If you don't like it, or feel uncomfortable with it, just ignore it. But don't slag a guy off for wishing you well. There are plenty of spunk-bubbles on Mudcat who deserve a bloody good gobful, save the venom for them and leave a genuinely nice guy alone. Johnny :0) PS - I use the word spunk in the British, not US, sense. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: Jeri Date: 24 Jul 04 - 04:22 PM Respect and civility for all....even those who like to think of themselves as my enemies. When I said that bit up there about "and if others would try to pay attention to what they were actually saying," this is what I was talking about. People seem to generally see whatever they want to read and are able to respond to. I've seen this a bunch of times: Q (by GUEST,Boffo): Can anybody tell me who wrote the song 'Dim as a Duck'? It's a very funny song I've been singing for a few years now, and I want to record it, but I need to find out who's got the copyright. Thanks in advance! A1: Here ya go! [types out lyrics] The lyrics were in the DT and very easy to find. You should really try to look there before asking for the lyrics. A2: Hey 'Boffo', buddy, I know who you really are! Don't answer him, people. It's just ________, playing his silly troll games again. A3: Boffo, you know you can become a member? It's really easy and you get all sorts of neat benefits like being able to send personal messages and tracing threads and stuff. Also, people are more likely to talk to you if you're a member. Boffo: Er, thanks guys, but anybody know who wrote the song? A4: Yeah, sure. I got it on the album "Chicken Hits" by Birdy and the Coop Kickers. A5: I'm familiar with the song, and I find it an offensive piece of crap. I've had ducks through the years, and they don't have sex like that. The song gives people the wrong impression, and is a serious insult. A6: Dear A5, don't get your panties in a wad, it's just a silly song. A7: Hey, I know a great joke about ducks... I could keep going. The basic theme of this mess I've written is that people often either can't seem to be able to read, or choose to focus on some side issue or completely fabricated issue just so they can type something or play their favorite game. Of late, there are inappropriate smart-ass comments, but people mostly seem to want to fight. Maybe we're all in a bad mood, but I really get the feeling many folks read a thread, any thread, searching for something they can take issue with. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: Little Hawk Date: 24 Jul 04 - 04:30 PM They may do that, Jeri. And they may do it for wildly differing reasons. Some people genuinely enjoy getting other people angry, some are merely kidding around but not meaning any harm, and so on... There are a lot of idle minds out there at the keyboard. Mary Garvey - Who in the World is Blessings Barbara???? I've got a feeling I should look it up on Google right away... |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: Jerry Rasmussen Date: 24 Jul 04 - 04:33 PM Maybe we should all end our posts with "Have a Nice Day? And Amos, how did you detect that GeorgianSilver lisps and waves a limp wrist when he says Be Blessed? Sounds homophobic to me. Just curious.. Good on you Amos: Jerry |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: Amos Date: 24 Jul 04 - 04:34 PM Jeri: ROTLMAO!! Sorry for being an auld grumpwit. A |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: Jeri Date: 24 Jul 04 - 04:40 PM Little Hawk, she is (or was) a Mudcat member. Signed off her posts (if I remember correctly) with 'Blessed Be'. I also don't recall her ever getting flamed for doing so. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: Jack the Sailor Date: 24 Jul 04 - 04:42 PM :LOL Are you getting enough fibre Amos? Maybe to much vibration in the groin area? Does the timing on the Indian need to be adjusted? I'll say one thing on your behalf, you are funny when you are cranky. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: Peace Date: 24 Jul 04 - 04:43 PM Tea and Grumpwits? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: Strollin' Johnny Date: 24 Jul 04 - 04:43 PM Amos, he doesn't lisp and his wrist is as stiff as...... well, it's very stiff. GS is a big guy with a big heart. Life has dealt him some shitty hands, some of those shitty hands were maybe of his own making, but he's survived and has come through to be a Good Guy. He wishes everyone to have his good fortune - that's an admirable sentiment and far better than inverting his piss-pot on people's heads the way some of you have done on his. Get a life man. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: Justa Picker Date: 24 Jul 04 - 04:47 PM I have a problem with the in-your-face "I am a Chrisitan" thing. Why do WE ... NEED... to know this? in communicating with someone who manages to include this phrase in their opening sentence or two? To me, it really implies a moral superiority and a veiled condescending attitude towards others of other beliefs and frankly I resent it, whether reading it on the internet or elsewhere. I believe it is a major turn off to a lot of people. It's like being smacked across the face with a copy of The Watch Tower. I don't need to be "wintessed" by anyone. I resent that too. Why the need to define this Christian "identity" to anyone you meet whether casually, socially, in business or on the internet? It's too much like a brainwashing . Are you not comfortable and secure enough within your own skin? Or is it an excuse/defense mechanism so that we don't challenge your moral and ethical "authority"? Whenever I meet anyone who is born again, honestly I say to myself, "what terrible and tragic personal catastrophe must this person have endured to have left them this way?" I really see it as a handi-cap in exactly the same way as I see anyone who has completely lost the ability to think independently for themselves - without a NEED to belong and be "validated" by the rest. Granted, if it gets you through the day and night, and harms no one else, fine by me. I think back to the old Cheech and Chong album of the 70s's "The Big Bambu" and the line from the ex-druggie "Before, I was all messed up on drugs, but since I found G-d, now I'm all messed up on the Lord." Just trading one crutch for another i.m.o. I'm not talking about spirituality. You don't have to belong to a religion to be spiratual within. But I guess a lot people believe that being religious is the vehicle to spirituality. I think not. How you feel if other religious people got in your face about everything in their day to day lives by clarifying and quantifying everything with: " Hi. I should let you know that I am Jew....therefore...".. or ....... "I am a Bhuddist and therefore".....or " I am a Catholic or...." or... [pick your favorite organized I think everyone should be free to practise their belief system anyway they like ON THEIR OWN OR WITHIN THEIR OWN KIND, but keep it the hell out of my face. So explain it all to me. But your words, not what they've brainwashed you to say. I sincerely want to know. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: Justa Picker Date: 24 Jul 04 - 04:48 PM Apologies for the previous typos. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: Georgiansilver Date: 24 Jul 04 - 04:50 PM Jack the Sailor....you state...."It seems that we are not talking about the sign off right now but Georgiansilver's reaction to the way he is treated in the Mudcat because of it. It seems that he got a little steamed up and decided to blow off that steam in this thread. He's done that, a few of us have reacted. Some of us have blown off our own steam" My reaction to the way I am treated on mudcat??? How have you reached that conclusion please? What have I said to make you think that on any thread? Also, I have not felt one little bit "steamed up" or wanted to "blow off steam" as you put it and am not sure where your interpretation of that comes from. Did I blow off steam?? I would like to see some people on Mudcat showing respect and civility for each other...that's the message. I don't suppose it will happen as too many people are too ready to jump to conclusions or just jump. Be Blessed. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: Amos Date: 24 Jul 04 - 04:54 PM GS: I don't suppose I could persuade you to change you signature line a little, could I? All I can say is it would make you communications much more assimilable to me. If not, fine, chacun a son gout atroce. A |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: Georgiansilver Date: 24 Jul 04 - 05:04 PM My signature line seems to be the cause of some problem for a few people but I cannot figure why. Even taking into account that there are differing religions on here. I have not encroached on anyones beliefs or tried to impose mine. Perhaps there is an attitude on the cat which reflects a kind of negativity in some people. I am no expert but I do know about me. Many don't but perhaps sometimes it might be prudent to accept people for who they are and only question opinions, giving ones own in the process. I thought that was what non-music threads were about. Be Blessed. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: Peace Date: 24 Jul 04 - 05:05 PM Hell, I hate missing an opportunity, and I did. I pushed the submit button and went, "Dang!" It should have read, "Tea and Grumpwits?" Be Buttered. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: Justa Picker Date: 24 Jul 04 - 05:06 PM You HAVE imposed yours. You're just to brainwashed to realize it. The first 4 words of your intial post, were completely un-necessary to the rest of your message. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: Little Hawk Date: 24 Jul 04 - 05:06 PM Not French again. (Sigh.) Now I have to go and get it translated. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: Little Hawk Date: 24 Jul 04 - 05:10 PM Ces individus qui se servent du langage français pour frapper la crainte dans les coeurs de peu de mortels méritent d'être assaillis par des troupeaux de porcs exaspérés ! |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: jacqui.c Date: 24 Jul 04 - 05:13 PM Jeri - I think you're right about people looking for arguments. There have been some interesting threads that I was enjoying following and even maybe formulating my own thoughts to post on and then certain people come in and spoil the discussion with iuncalled for hostility. It just makes me back off as I hate wasting energy dealing with such negative attitudes. Such a shame. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: Peace Date: 24 Jul 04 - 05:13 PM Interesting views expressed above. Years ago when the "Have a nice day" remark was all the rage, I couldn't resist the temptation to respond, "Fu#k off and don't tell me what to DO!" That's got nothin' to do with anything, but then neither does the remark, "Be Blessed." Mostly because I don't know what it means. So, I ignore it. Thank you, though, GS. I think your motives are cool. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: Peace Date: 24 Jul 04 - 05:17 PM These individuals that use the French language to hit the fear in the hearts of mortal few one deserve to be assailed by flocks of exasperated porks! Couldn't have said it better myself, Little Hawk. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: Peace Date: 24 Jul 04 - 05:18 PM Did y'ever notice that GS's threads grow like the seeds in "Jack and the Beanstalk"? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: Georgiansilver Date: 24 Jul 04 - 05:19 PM Merci bien Brucie et bon-chance(almost as good as Be Blessed eh?) |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: Little Hawk Date: 24 Jul 04 - 05:20 PM The reason why, GS, is that it pushes their buttons. What if you were a declared atheist? What if you had begun your statement with "I am an atheist..." Well, then it would push a different set of buttons, and a different bunch of people would be bothered by it. As an atheist you could end each post with: "I'd say 'blessed be', but it wouldn't make any difference, because there's nothing out there to bless you, so I won't. I'd say 'good luck', but I don't believe in luck either. I'd say 'see ya later'...but maybe I won't, so I can't say that because it might prove false. Hmmm. Aw, just forget it!" That would probably bug certain people too, specially if it was after every single post. I say, stick with "Be Blessed". It's short, friendly, and easy to type (even if it isn't easy to say ten times in a row really fast). |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: Peace Date: 24 Jul 04 - 05:29 PM Naw. Be Blessed is a nice thing, and I know that from your perspective it's honest and given from the heart. Heck, when so many people around the world are yelling at each other, shooting at each other, it's good to know that some folks want something they consider to be nice for other folks, and with no strings attached. I was given a gift about three days ago, and it has changed me for the better. (Yeah, yeah, I know, I know.) I can't go into details--and no, it wasn't LH's goat--but something really got me in the heart, and now I think the world is a beautiful place. So, it would take a heckuva lot more than you telling me to Be Blessed to throw me off my milk. In fact, right now you could tell me to Be Buggerd and it wouldn't phase me a bit. Therefore, GS, you be blessed, too. Bruce M |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: artbrooks Date: 24 Jul 04 - 05:29 PM Pesonally, and as a non-practicing Deist, I think that god (or God, if your religious and/or grammatical preferences require) isn't enough of an activist to respond to "Be Blessed" by doing much of anything. On the other hand, if using that as a closing fits into GS's personal view of the universe, who does it harm? It clearly makes him happy, and it doesn't harm anyone else...unless their hypersensitivity borders upon the pathological. None of us are really going to know the answer on the basis of personal experience in this lifetime anyway. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: Little Hawk Date: 24 Jul 04 - 05:37 PM Don't be so sure about that, Art. :-) (not that I'm saying I know from personal experience, but....) |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: Little Hawk Date: 24 Jul 04 - 05:38 PM brucie - Dang! There I was thinking the goat had finally arrived. Oh well, I'm glad to here about your good fortune anyway. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: Wolfgang Date: 24 Jul 04 - 05:50 PM he was obsessed with his sacred mission which was to convert all other people to atheism, thus "saving" them, I assume, from the folly of their ways. God, was he annoying. (Little Hawk) You're so right, I know these types. They truly are annoying. Replace one word and you have a description of Georgiansilver. Georgiansilver, it isn't annoying to me if you end a normal post with 'be blessed'. But it feels wrong, superficial and 'Look I'm better than you' if you for instance end a post to MG this way after he has called you names. In these situations it feels completely out of context. It reminds me in these contexts of the newly trained too friendly salespeople I encounter over here since a few years. I walk in a shop just to buy a roll or whatever, still half asleep, don't want to talk to anybody I don't really know and then the Lady says "Good morning Sir, what can I do for you" and later "Is there anything else I can sell you...goodbye, have a nice day, come again soon thank you for your custom". It sounds artificial and trained and anything but genuine. That's how you sound to me when you use the 'be blessed' in a context where I would expect a bit stronger words. I don't know whether the English language knows 'Pharisean' as an adjective. That's how you come over for me if you use the two words more or less independent of the context. Wolfgang |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: Georgiansilver Date: 24 Jul 04 - 05:58 PM Wolfgang. I may have many differences of opinion with members(and the dreaded "Guest") on the cat but I bear no-one any malice. I came on to join something I thought would be a sensible discussion forum and for the most part it is. It matters not to me if someone is abusive if that is how they choose to be but I don't really know them and they don't know me. I try to treat all with the kind of expect I would "like" for myself and will put "Be Blessed" on all posts as a matter of course whether I am personally praised or abused. Be Blessed. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: Georgiansilver Date: 24 Jul 04 - 06:30 PM expect should read respect....sorry! |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: Amos Date: 24 Jul 04 - 06:44 PM Some of you may be aware that it was here in the pages of the Mudcat that the now planet-scale organic religion known as the Temple of the Golden Curve was first founded, demonstrating a pronounced tendency for forward thinking and front-viewing on an almost mystic level by the participants. There are a number of threads which go over the remarkable history of this fine religious organization, and our growth curve has been exemplary in spite of the fact that management personnel are notoriously soft touches. But we compensated with a lot of support from the very up-front folks who understood our vision. As well as being one of the Founders I am also an aspirant of the Temple. Be Breast, A |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: Little Hawk Date: 24 Jul 04 - 06:49 PM Hmmm. Interesting. I shall have to look into this. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: Bill D Date: 24 Jul 04 - 07:06 PM ok..one last clarifying post and I will retire from this. georgiansilver...you ask.." I would like to know how you arrive at this understanding. Have I in any instance tried to inflict my beliefs on anyone?" .....Please read the following, trying, as you ask others to do, in the spirit in which is was intended. This is the first time I have responded to or mentioned Georgiansilver's signature...I did so because the thread was relevant, in that it was started in order to make a point about civility and the animosity which has developed in some quarter. I 'tried' to explain why some are bothered, and why in a forum like this, context is so important. "blessings, Barbara" used that signature with, as far as I can find or remember, NO reference to any religion whatsoever. I have NO idea whether she is religious or not. It 'felt' simply like good wishes. (I sometimes refer to MY blessings, using it simply as a shorthand for "happiness and good fortune which I obtained with no particular credit to my own efforts"....a quite non-religious context) Georgiansilver, on the other hand entered this forum with many direct and specific references to HIS religion... "but I believe and you have to believe before you can begin your understanding..not the other way round. I say to all of you, keep seeking the truth..yes I said the truth..because satan will lead you up the garden path and back again to stop you finding your salvation in Jesus Christ. I was lost but now I'm found...was blind but now I see....My suggestion to you is..get a Bible with Jesus words in red..or highlighted...read them and then make your mind up....I know that some of you(just by the things you have written already) are not ready to find Jesus...that's up to you..but I won't knock your belief so please don't knock mine." (from April 12) that seems clear enough to me...'believe BEFORE you understand' 'the TRUTH is already determined...just pay attention'. Is this 'over the line' regarding "inflicting beliefs on others"?...obviously, opinions differ. No one can 'inflict' much on anyone in a VT text chat, but words are powerful in ANY relationship, real or virtual. ...so, if some, given this context, presume that all offered 'blessings' from GS are of a specific type and suggest that those who have not found "the truth" need to find his notion of the "truth", it is not surprising. Yes, I can certainly ignore posts that bother me, and most likely will not get into this again, as I have no doubt that GS is, in person, a good and delightful fellow to know, who shares music and helps people. We debate many things here at Mudcat, and expressions of personal attitudes towards living life harmoniously is just one...and I'll guarantee you that some ways of going about it will inspire controversy. Martin Gibson has no corner on the market, even if he does have pretty good luck...*grin* |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: Peace Date: 24 Jul 04 - 07:12 PM Amos, Have you boobed by not posting a link? You have my complete but divided attention. WE WANT LINKS! WE WANT LINKS! WE WANT LINKS! |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: Little Hawk Date: 24 Jul 04 - 07:12 PM Amos, I have found many references to the Temple of the Golden Curve already. I am transfixed! I feel a deep need to worship at the altar. Where is the Temple located? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: freda underhill Date: 24 Jul 04 - 07:14 PM anyone having a bad hair day is going to find someone to blame it on, thats what a bad hair day is all about. interesting to compare comments on the 8th deadly sin (intolerance was recommended as the most dangerous one) with comments here (no i haven't) but it seems there are some things we are proud to be tolerant about (major differences like race) but happy to let fly on much smaller foibles and irritants. but its all the same emotion. imho it doesnt matter how we sign off - is this an argument re style over content? and all this time i thought you were a pagan, georgiansilver! freda |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: Peace Date: 24 Jul 04 - 07:14 PM Hark. Is the thread entitled Temple of the Golden Globes about what I think? Sorry. Forget I asked for LINKS on the other thread. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: Amos Date: 24 Jul 04 - 07:19 PM Brucie, Enlightenment is a slow process. We offer orientation courses for those who want help getting in touch with their feelings, and also advanced Barille techniques. A |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: Peace Date: 24 Jul 04 - 07:19 PM I misspelled it anyway. I meant to say LYNX. I recently read, "My Ritual Mating with a Canadian Lynx" by Claude Bolz, and I was absolutely fascinated. I hope this won't be interpreted as thread drift. Double C Breast. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: Peace Date: 24 Jul 04 - 07:40 PM Amos, You are a prince among men. How do I join? What must I do? Must I take the pebble from your hand? Speak, Amos, for in this enlightment process may be found the seeds of a new beginning. Imagine the freedom: no longer having to view pictures hidden behind newspapers. No longer having to feel that women come in three parts as they do in the finer magazines that one reads only for the articles. So, like, is there a ring to kiss or anything like that? Brucie |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: Pogo Date: 24 Jul 04 - 07:40 PM Well to throw in a nickle and a dime ...I quite frankly enjoy discussing religion much like I enjoy discussing say literature or history or music. It's a way to pass the time and a way to see different views. Only sometimes it dissolves into generalizations and pointless arguements (" Well all pagans act like this... " " Well oh yeah...well all Christians act like this... " " And what about you Buddhists huh? ")and this saddens me cause then it seems no one is trying to understand anymore...everyone is just vying to show why THEIR religion is the best religion to belong to. I believe very strongly in a spirit of mutual goodwill and tolerance to accompany religious discussions...really the main purpose is to understand why the other fellow chooses to believe this way. As for my own beliefs I am quite happy with my belief in God. If someone wants to know more then I will be happy to talk to them about it. Otherwise I don't bring up the subject. I never try to push my beliefs in people's faces but I feel no shame in believing and praying to Heavenly Father, supporting my religious leaders and going to church on a regular basis. I just don't see the point of arguing about WHY anyone believes the way they do. I mean...they're going to believe however the sweet hades they want to believe. Nothing you or I or the Pope or the President or anyone says is going to change that if they are that firmly cemented in their beliefs. Okay...sorry I just had to get that off my chest. Yawl know how it is with me now so I won't need to say anything more huh?...I'll shut up. Ohh-kay. {O) May fleas never infest your wives' beards |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: Amos Date: 24 Jul 04 - 07:49 PM We too believe in uncovering our feelings, or their referents, and getting off what is on our chests. We, too, believe that firmness is often the greatest virtue, but we do not think therefore that it needs to be pursued artificially, because we believe that "Artificial substance givers rise to artificial feelings". So I think we have a lot in common once we round things off correctly. Be Breast, Andrew Lahloverim, Apprentice Aspirant Temple of the Golden Curve |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: Pogo Date: 24 Jul 04 - 07:52 PM {OD {OD {OP |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: Jack the Sailor Date: 24 Jul 04 - 08:08 PM From Georgiasilver, I would like to see some people on Mudcat showing respect and civility for each other...that's the message. OK, You are lecturing the Mudcat on civility. Good luck to you, I hope your Faith proves to be strong enough for you to be example you hold yourself to be. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: Little Hawk Date: 24 Jul 04 - 08:32 PM Another thing to remember, Amos, is that while it is always good to have a point it is even better to have two of them. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: Amos Date: 24 Jul 04 - 08:51 PM We of the Temple are highly sensitive to the duality of all beauty, Sir Hawk. But although we are sensitive to duality, we are not in favor of polarization -- our favorite slogan is "Keep them all pointing North". B Breast, A |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: Peace Date: 24 Jul 04 - 09:17 PM Yhank you, Amos, for we ARE in the north. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: GUEST,Clint Keller Date: 24 Jul 04 - 10:13 PM I think I first heard "Blessed be" used by Wiccans. Until this thread came out I thought G.Silver was some kind of New Reformed Pagan. Just goes to show. clint |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: Once Famous Date: 24 Jul 04 - 10:33 PM Hi all, time to check in on this! What can I say? Georgiansilver is obviously one tight-ass with hemmoroids that bump each other. Be ridiculous. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: Georgiansilver Date: 25 Jul 04 - 01:12 AM Knew you would get here eventually Martin. Yes, being Christian has not stopped me getting Haemmoroids! One of my everyday problems to face in life as with all of us. Be Blessed. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: Blackcatter Date: 25 Jul 04 - 01:55 AM I'm with Clint, I thought that GS was Pagan. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 25 Jul 04 - 05:24 AM Pogp, didn't you mean {OB |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: kendall Date: 25 Jul 04 - 07:14 AM We all have a cross to bear. hehehe |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: GUEST Date: 25 Jul 04 - 07:19 AM I hate to sound like a spelling Nazi, but, there are three forms of the word "TO", and when you mix them up, it is confusing to the reader. TO, preposition TWO,more than one, less than three TOO, also |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: Amos Date: 25 Jul 04 - 10:06 AM Dear Guest: Although you DO sound like a spelling nazi, you are forgiven, for you are part of the DIvine Duality of Golden Curves. All mankind shares this miracle and when this is universally recognized, there will be peace on Earth. Stay in touch. B. Breast, Brother Duophile Fixation, Assistant Curator Temple ofthe Golden Globes |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: JennyO Date: 25 Jul 04 - 10:46 AM Be Blessed and Blessed Be are not the same thing. Blessed Be is something that pagans often say to each other. I usually only say it to people who I know are pagan. I see nothing wrong at all with Georgiansilver putting Be Blessed on the end of his posts. Like Little Hawk, there was a time when I might have been annoyed by it, when the memory of being humiliated and figuratively beaten over the head with religion as a child was more recent. I had been the victim of many so-called Christians, my family in particular, whose holier-than-thou attitude made my childhood pretty miserable. But that was a long time ago. Through a long journey of self-discovery where I was able to start to identify and feel comfortable with my own brand of spirituality, I have also developed a lot more tolerance of differences. Everyone has to find their own path. My feelings are that life is too short to go looking for hidden agendas and other things that make your experience negative. I prefer to take people at face value and not impose judgment. As far as I can see, Georgiansilver is just expressing his satisfaction with his life and extending his feelings of goodwill to other people here. I won't feel belittled at all if he says it to me. So Georgiansilver, Be Blessed. Jenny |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: Georgiansilver Date: 25 Jul 04 - 11:26 AM You too JennyO. Our journeys of self discovery are not always pleasant and not always a joy but sometimes we meet people who we feel comfortable with and accept at face value. I have some admiration for you already as you may have restored faith in a thread which was suggesting Respect and civility but was degenerating in places. Be Blessed. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: katlaughing Date: 25 Jul 04 - 11:27 AM BillD...thanks for all you've said. JennyO,thanks for pointing out the difference between the two. Jeri, LMAO with tears because it is so true AND sad. "Be Blessed" rankles, imo, because it is a command. It irks the same way as "God bless you." Way back when, we'd figured out, in the interest of respect and civility, that if one wanted to say such it would be better to say "May your god bless you." The pagan "Blessed be" seems much more amenable than the GS command, imo. kat |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: Jeri Date: 25 Jul 04 - 12:12 PM Quibbling about words... Don't we have enough stress with what's going on in the world these days that we need to get upset about somebody wishing us well using the wrong words as well? Or maybe that's the whole problem. It doesn't take much to set people off, here or elsewhere. Doesn't take much to excuse jumping on somebody for a perceived slight. Lots of folks are mad at something we feel pretty helpless to do anything about. I wrote a really long post last night, flaming people for being hostile and petty, and making Mudcat somewhere I wasn't sure if I wanted to be. I didn't send it. Today, I realize I was being just as hostile and petty as the folks I was pissed off about. Fighting fire with fire is only an option when you don't mind losing everything you're going to burn. I have enough things to worry about to get my panties in a bunch because someone used terminology I don't care for to wish me well. (and no, 'Be Blessed' doesn't bother me. If it did, 'Blessed Be' would bother me just as much. They mean the same damned thing, without the stuff between the lines.) It's especially ironic that this should happen in a thread about 'respect and civility'. It's not 'Live and let live, as long as you do it the way I think you should'. Oy. Don't MAKE me post "There's a Bug Up My Butt" again! Jeri |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: harpgirl Date: 25 Jul 04 - 12:14 PM GS...we have had many religious wars over the years on mudcat. At this point in our history, we all seem to know what each other's take on religion is and we try to keep the prosletizing to a minimum. The unwritten rule is to be modest or respectful and civil about one another's individual belief or non-belief. You would be well-advised to work harder on this approach. (For history on how I have stepped into it with both feet, read our war about Catholicism after the priest scandals began to surface. I offended dozens of catholics with my remark about the catholic church going bankrupt.) For your information, I am a traditional Episcopalian with little or no interest in the bible or modern interpretations of biblical stories. I don't believe in a virgin birth and I think many churches have commandeered the life and teachings of Jesus of Nazareth for their own narrow-minded and oppressive purposes. I only attend my mother's church for the most part, and to me religion is about helping other people.That's how I practice my "religion." When I hear other people say "I am a Christian" I always wonder what that implies. I am a Christian because I am an Episcopalian. It seems to me that "I am a Christian" implies that your brand of Christianity is somehow better than all the other denominations. Sanctimonious posts also draw a great deal of negative feedback, in case you haven't noticed. In my opinion, Jerry Rasmussen has the best approach to his religious beliefs. He can blab on and on about his religious activities and ideas and it nevers sounds sanctimonious or defensive. He just sounds like a good soul whose light shines on everyone equally. Frankly, most of our more religious members have found a way to fit in or have learned to live and let live. Good luck harp |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: Amos Date: 25 Jul 04 - 12:31 PM Jeri: Ya know what? I think you're right. I shoulda kept my mouth shut. Next time, maybe I will be better, eh? AS |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: Once Famous Date: 25 Jul 04 - 01:17 PM Does Georgiansilver expose himself to choir boys from his friar tuck robe? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: Georgiansilver Date: 25 Jul 04 - 01:36 PM Interesting you should mention Friar Tuck Martin. A colleague and I are hoping to set up a Robin Hood theme park in Lincolnshire within the next two years..all being well. I suppose I could wear the Friar Tuck robe but exposing myself is something I have never considered. Poor contribution from you Martin just to be No 100 on the thread. Be Blessed. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: GUEST,KT Date: 25 Jul 04 - 01:44 PM Georgiansilver, thanks for wishing goodness for me! I choose to receive your good wishes in a positive way. I wish you the same! KT |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: Jeri Date: 25 Jul 04 - 01:50 PM S'ok Amos. I've said enough stuff I wish I hadn't in these threads over the years. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: Jerry Rasmussen Date: 25 Jul 04 - 02:05 PM Thanks, Harpgirl: I don't have an agenda. I don't consider mudcat a particularly good place to discuss faith... or even a lack thereof. I have my hands full trying to live a loving life without advising anyone else how to live theirs. Which is probably why I've had such close, lifetime friendships with people who are Atheists. That said, my faith is a part of who I am as a human being, just as my age is, and the part of the country I grew up. It would be artifical for me to feel that I have to completely deny part of who I am to be welcome in here. That would be denying myself of friendships because of difference in faith. And for the record, I don't think that there are many people who find George Bush and the Christian Right more offensive than I do. The Christian Right doesn't speak for any Christians that I know. As for the salutation "Be Blessed" each of us has the choice of accepting it in the spirit in which we perceive that it is being offered. Someone could say "Screw you," and you'd accept it as a loving comment if you knew the person. In the same way, someone could say "God Bless You," and you'd think to yourself, "Yeah, RIIIIIGHT! because you know the insincerity of the "blessing." Here on Mudcat, most of us are these funny little black letters of the alphabet arranged in a semi-coherent order. We aren't flesh and blood, and we have a very one-dimensional relationship with each other. I spend as much time reading between the lines as I do reading what is posted. That means that, while I am in complete disagreement with Bill D (as an example) I respect and like him, and would enjoy knowing him in 3-D. Much is in how we perceive the motivations of others. And sadly, too often, what WE carry within us colors our perceptions so radically that we only see a reflection of ourselves. I have no problem with people believing differently than I do. Or even thinking that I'm full of it. Or delusional. But, I'm all for a little more respect and civility on mudcat. It seems to be in increasingly short supply around here. As Leadbelly sang, "We're in the same boat, Brother." May good things come to all.. Jerry |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: Pogo Date: 25 Jul 04 - 02:27 PM That's a nice way of putting it Jerry. Mmm-hmm. *nods* I likes it. Foolstroupe: LOL Uhm...yeah...sumpin' like that... And in parting, live long and prosper, may your kumquats be numerous and may chickens never spontaneously combust on your front porch. {O) {OD |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: Blackcatter Date: 25 Jul 04 - 02:37 PM Yep - gotta watch them chicken's inhaling too much swamp gas. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: akenaton Date: 25 Jul 04 - 02:40 PM Jerry ...Im not in your boat. You're bound for Glory.........Im bound for Hell....Ake |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: Jerry Rasmussen Date: 25 Jul 04 - 02:57 PM You never know, ake.. :-) Right now, all we have is the moment. Jerry |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: JennyO Date: 25 Jul 04 - 10:54 PM Thankyou Georgiansilver. Jenny |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: Peace Date: 25 Jul 04 - 11:13 PM Be screwed. Why doesn't anyone . . . ah, never mind. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: Blackcatter Date: 25 Jul 04 - 11:25 PM I'm hoping to Brucie. Met a nice lady at church today. She let me give her the special tour, if you know what I mean. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: Jack the Sailor Date: 25 Jul 04 - 11:47 PM Did you show her your apse? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: Georgiansilver Date: 26 Jul 04 - 03:29 AM What a Knave!or is it Nave? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 26 Jul 04 - 03:36 AM A Nava(e)l Tour? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: Georgiansilver Date: 26 Jul 04 - 03:57 AM That took guts! Be Blessed. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: Ellenpoly Date: 26 Jul 04 - 07:14 AM Not being religious, I have no especial reaction to GS's "Be Blessed", though I do think I once responded on some thread or other to him with "Blessed Be". I thought I was just returning a nice energy coming my way back to him in another form. I really do understand the impact of words, even to the point of having written a note to Joe Offer about removing a thread that had become so filled with explicitives and nasty thoughts that even my most liberal of minds reeled from the onslaught it had to my psyche. We need to be cogniscent of the power of words-how easily they can be misinterpreted, and how effectively they can be used to offend, defend, or influence. Each time we tap out our little (or large) postings here at Mudcat is an opportunity to connect or disconnect with others. This thread is as good an example of any on how this works for us, and I for one am glad to be a part of the continuing discussions. ..xx..e |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: Nerd Date: 26 Jul 04 - 02:00 PM I think many people are trying to have it both ways. GS says "be blessed" and claims that he isn't trying to spread his religios beliefs or prosletyse because "I love all Gods kids (even those who don't know Him personally) and think that each of us....however brought into the world...however brought up...should be given the benefit of the doubt." Perhaps he can't see how condescending this is. First of all, he defines others as people who don't know God personally, then says he will give us "the benefit of the doubt" anyway. So it's not a question of "I see your beliefs as the equal of mine" but "I see mine as the REAL path to God, and yours as an error, but I don't blame you for the error." Mighty white of you, as they used to say. On the OTHER hand... Be Blessed is just what folklorists call a "leave-taking formula." It is just like "have a nice day," actually, or "see you later, alligator," or indeed like "Goodbye" which was originally "God be by you" (in the sense of 'with you'). Some of us use a sort of personalized leave-taking that expresses our own personality, and if GS is a Christian then his "be blessed" is no different than my friend Ozzie's "Peace, man." Both could be read as foisting an ideology on you, but I don't think either is intended that way. So GS, no problem with the "be blessed" thing. And I do understand that your belief system may truly be unable to perceive other religions as equally valid and right; it is rare for a religion to be that accepting, of course. So you should be aware that an attitude that your religion is superior DOES sometimes come through in what you say, and may continue to do so whenever you talk about religion. Perhaps the best solution would be not to talk much about religion except in religious forums. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: GUEST,Garton Mibson Date: 26 Jul 04 - 03:08 PM Friar Tuck. Friar Tuck. Friar Tuck. Lends a whole new meaning to the "Lincolnshire Poacher' |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: GUEST,cookieless Norton1 Date: 26 Jul 04 - 03:11 PM God bless you Amos - heck - God Bless you all - In specific - may the God I worship bless you all. Funny how a belief system so dedicated to peace can be found so offensive in this particular den of supposed peace advocates. Have a bad day Amos?? Thank you GS - And God bless you and yours also - Steve PS - I think someone once told me - if you don't like it there is a BS filter and common sense available for you to make your choices from. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: Jerry Rasmussen Date: 26 Jul 04 - 03:22 PM If you think that all beliefs and religions are equal, then what's the point? Might's well be a member of the Church of Whatever.. Having a strong belief is not in itself condescending to others. It had absolutely nothing to do with others. It's an intensely personal experience that is non-tranferable. Respecting others and treating them lovingly depends on what you believe, NOT on what they believe. Jerry |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: Nerd Date: 26 Jul 04 - 03:35 PM I agree, Jerry. That's why I said very few religions are that accepting. This is precisely why religion is a sensitive topic. You literally cannot talk about your religion and at the same time avoid saying that someone else's deeply-held beliefs are wrong. Saying to others "you are wrong" is impolite. And when GS says "I love all Gods kids (even those who don't know Him personally)," he is essentially saying "some of you do not know God, hence your religion is wrong." It would probably be better simply not to say this, but of course he has the right to say whatever he wants. It's just ironic that he started this thread for "respect and civility" and ended up, unwittingly I'm sure, making some people feel disrespected. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: Jerry Rasmussen Date: 26 Jul 04 - 03:48 PM I think that GS started this thread because he wanted to be treated with respect and civility. We all want that. I don't believe he consciously meant to be disrespectful of others, himself. Want a real zinger? My wife was always fond of saying, "I love you.. I just don't like the things that you do." Now, theologically, there's nothing wrong in that statement. But somehow it sounded infuriatingly judgmental, sugar-coated with a statement that "I love you." Now, if GS signed off THAAAAT way, I'd be the one to blow my top. :-) Howzabout a closing salutation "Have a generic day? Jerry |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: GUEST,Blackcatter at work Date: 26 Jul 04 - 04:27 PM GS started this thread because it is all about him around here. He's sitting back and enjoying this mere because we're talking about him. Now, there's nothing wrong with that. As for: Funny how a belief system so dedicated to peace Am I to assume that you're talking about Chirstianity? If so, why do so many Christians kill? Please. That's just a silly statement regardles of the fact that may be a lot of Christians at Mudcat are peace-loving and don't have notches on their belts. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: Georgiansilver Date: 26 Jul 04 - 07:46 PM GUEST Blackcatter at work....I really don't claim to be happy to be talked about, nevertheless I am happy for anyone to question my opinions or statements on any thread. I don't hold myself above anyone else because of my beliefs. We were all thrust into this world..not by choice...and have to make our own way as best we can.. I just try..like everyone else, using the framework of my life experience...If yours differs from mine..so be it.. I can't change it. Be Blessed. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: GUEST,Augie Date: 26 Jul 04 - 09:31 PM I've just read this thread from beginning to end and was reminded of nothing so much as"The Dutchman" author Michael Smith's recent lines; "Some Say it was a Big Bang,others, Seven Days But in this Clockwork Universe with its Convoluted Ways... There's Doubt for those with evidence,and Faith for those with none. Every Sense and Mind Agrees, an Artist Lives in All of These, One who knows Intrinsically Such Things are Finely Done, Such Things are Finely Done." No one has the One True Answer.There are as many different,true answers as there are people asking the question. I'm comfortable with mine. I hope you are with yours. And if yours is different from mine, well at least lets try try to play in tune with each other. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: curmudgeon Date: 26 Jul 04 - 09:39 PM When Woody Guthrie was being admitted to the hospital for what would become his final stay, he was asked to fill in his religious preference on the admission form . Being Woody, he wrote "All." The nurse advised him that he had to choose one particular faith, to which he replied, "All or none; take your choice." |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: saulgoldie Date: 27 Jul 04 - 10:24 AM Went from "Respect and civility" to a discussion of religion. I accept that GS likes to sign off a certain way. But he has heard from many people who approve or are neutral, and some who have explained in clear terms that they are deeply offended by that action. It now goes back to him to RESPECT the wishes of those who do not take it in the spirit he intends it and refrain from signing off to them in that way, thereby showing his CIVILITY. It matters not how he signs off or what his intentions are. It is that simple. Otherwise: "May a flock of geese make a deposit on your red convertible when the top is down." or maybe "I hope you find much congress at the coven meeting." "Respect and civility" is a two way street or it is not at all. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: Bagpuss Date: 27 Jul 04 - 10:40 AM Jerry, what have you got against the Church of Whatever? What have we ever done to offend you? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: Big Mick Date: 27 Jul 04 - 10:40 AM Saul, you are way off the mark here. No one is required by any rule of civility to change how they sign off unless they are doing something that is clearly intended to offend. In other words, if one signed off anti-semitic, racist, or openly hostile comments, that would clearly be intended to offend all people of conscience. "Be Blessed" could hardly be considered offensive in any terms, and those that take umbrage to it are likely folks that are so strident in their beliefs that they would take umbrage at any reference that wasn't strictly in line with their views. Watching for intent is good sauce here. It seems clear that the intent of GS is to wish well to all. And the phrase used is very neutral. I would probably be offended if s/he knuckled under to this. Statements made to reflect one's beliefs, that are not done in an intentionally offensive way, are not only within the bounds of civility, but are the ultimate expressions of civility. While I am not a Jew, or a Moslem, I would take a blessing from these or any group, in the spirit with which it was intended. All the best, Mick |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: beardedbruce Date: 27 Jul 04 - 10:49 AM I would take whatever blessings I might be offered. Any positive thoughts are welcome. Mick's "all the best" is as much a wish for my welfare as "be blessed"- and I apreciate the intent behind both of them. 8-{E |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: el ted Date: 27 Jul 04 - 11:22 AM Hi there, nothing of import to add to what is a heavy and depressing thread.I just thought a bit of red lettering would liven things up a bit |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: Strollin' Johnny Date: 27 Jul 04 - 12:41 PM Stop it Ted, you naughty naughty person! (ROTFL) Big Mick - at last, someone with more than one gram of common sense! You are absolutely, 100% correct. It's sad that these moaners have nothing better on which to vent their miserable spleens. Johnny :0) |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: el ted Date: 27 Jul 04 - 12:44 PM I can do it in a different colour if you like johnny |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: Kim C Date: 27 Jul 04 - 12:55 PM Let me ask you all this one question: Is this the hill you want to die on? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: Little Hawk Date: 27 Jul 04 - 01:07 PM Right on, Big Mick. Yours is the voice of common sense speaking. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: M.Ted Date: 27 Jul 04 - 08:20 PM Good point, Mick--and even more to the point, KimC-- "Be Blessed" is an odd place to draw the line in the sand-- |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: jimmyt Date: 27 Jul 04 - 09:05 PM Georgian Silver, I have read this entire thread trying to get the real gist of your original premise, ie respect and civility. Then I went back to your original post. I have read ad nauseum threads where you and Martin Gibson were flailing away at one another for no apparent reason. At each post, you say, Be Blessed. I will have to tell you that in my opinion,if you are sincere and really mean that you would like to treat and be treated with respect and civility, you would be wise to consider that your sign off seems to be offensive and self promoting to many people. If you continue to do this after they have mentioned it, it seems rude and inconsiderate. Religion completely out of the formula. This is my opinion. I sincerely hope that you consider this objectively and not in the manner of religiosity that some would use to circumvent the issue. There are many Christians in this website that are respected for their opinions, as well as Jews, Pagans and a wide diversity of other persuasions. Most of them have managed to co-exist here without ruffling any feathers. They do this by avoiding things that others find to be offensive. Again, you seem to be a fine fellow, and those who know you sing your praises highly. I hope you are not ofended by my post, as it is intended to be my take on this, not a personal affront. jimmyt |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: Jerry Rasmussen Date: 27 Jul 04 - 09:52 PM Good post, jimmy. If some people tell you that they find something you repeatedly say offensive, then it seeems like the civil thing to do is to find another positive way to express yourself. Saying, that you shouldn't be offended is kinda missing the point. Like when someone does something to hurt you and you say it's their fault for being too sensitive. There's more than one way to skin a cat. And a mudcat. Jerry |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: Jerry Rasmussen Date: 27 Jul 04 - 09:55 PM And Georgian: With all due respect, is there a reason why you are so adamant about ending every post with "Be Blessed?" What's the point, if you are offending some people? There are other ways to sign off. I guess I shouldn't be critical though. I always sign off Jerry |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: Once Famous Date: 27 Jul 04 - 10:20 PM Yeah Georginsilver. How about something like, "bye now." |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: Blackcatter Date: 27 Jul 04 - 11:37 PM Children: So long, farewell, auf Wiedersehen, good night Marta: I hate to go and leave this pretty sight Children: So long, farewell, auf Wiedersehen, adieu Friedrich: Adieu, adieu, to yieu and yieu and yieu Children: So long, farewell, au revoir, auf wiedersehen Liesl: I'd like to stay and taste my first champagne Children: So long, farewell, auf Wiedersehen, goodbye Kurt: I leave and heave a sigh and say goodbye -- Goodbye! Brigitta: I'm glad to go, I cannot tell a lie Louisa: I flit, I float, I fleetly flee, I fly Gretl: The sun has gone to bed and so must I Children: So long, farewell, auf Wiedersehen, goodbye Goodbye, goodbye, goodbye Guests: Goodbye |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: Georgiansilver Date: 28 Jul 04 - 04:37 AM O.K. I have not gone out of my way to offend people on here but seem to offend some, as do many others(some of whom intend to). I bow to those of you who are unhappy with my sign off and humbly withdraw it. It seems sad to me that I have to, because it was a sincere wish for good to all of you...however, if it is not in keeping then consider it closed as far as the Cat is concerned Best wishes, |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: Georgiansilver Date: 28 Jul 04 - 04:48 AM Incidentally. jimmyt and others latterly on this thread...It was a pleasure to be asked in a manner which in itself respects and is civil. Best wishes. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: el ted Date: 28 Jul 04 - 05:11 AM CHEER UP FOR GOD'S SAKE! MAYBE A POST IN ORANGE WOULD HELP? BE BLESSED. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: GUEST,weerover Date: 28 Jul 04 - 05:52 AM I find it difficult to see why anyone would be offended at Georgiansilver's (now former) sign-off. If you believe in blessings you might well be gratified; if not, then at worst it is surely only useless and not malign? wr. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: jacqui.c Date: 28 Jul 04 - 06:42 AM wr - I agree GS - Be Blessed |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: GUEST,Oh yeah,Like I want 2225 Pm's about this Date: 28 Jul 04 - 08:49 AM Congratulations Mudcatters On having sucessfully censored GS.Once again the right to free speech in an open forum prevails.Well,atleast for the likes of Martin Gibson.You folks should be proud. Who can we shout down next fellow brownshirts? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: jimmyt Date: 28 Jul 04 - 08:56 AM By the way, GS, I am personally not offended so you may offer your blessings to me if you wish, as I do you, albiet silently. I am sure lots of people would feel likewise. Lets see, you could get a catalog of the blessers and the non blessers, or have someone write a program to automatically default.........a blessing default.......yeah, I think you can make a million on this if you work it just right, and get Bill Gates involved. grin |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: Little Hawk Date: 28 Jul 04 - 09:05 AM I have just one thing to say to every last one of you who finds himself in a state of mental discomfort when reminded of his own inner traumas, prejudices, and other sore points bubbling up from the subconscious...and decides, thereupon, that someone ELSE is to blame for it and must be controlled accordingly: BE BLESSED!!! |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: el ted Date: 28 Jul 04 - 09:30 AM If a muslim came on here and offered you all a fraternal greeting, "peace be upon you" or whatever, I'd be you would all keep stum wouldn't you? That'll teach him to be a christian! |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: el ted Date: 28 Jul 04 - 09:40 AM That last post should have been in red |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: Big Mick Date: 28 Jul 04 - 09:56 AM This is the first time in my long association with my beloved Mudcat that I have been ashamed of the folks here. And Jerry Rasmussen, you of all people I would have expected to defend this. At this moment I am witnessing the worst of herd mentality. There was absolutely nothing in the closing of "Be Blessed" that could possibly be construed as offensive by any right thinking person. This is nothing more than a bunch of folks looking for a cause. The worst part of it is that you are being manipulated and aren't seeing it. Be assured that there is a person who gets their jollies out of sitting at a keyboard and laying out bait and watching you all dance, and then chuckling. So I suppose that if folks find it offensive that I wear a crucifix, I should take it off? Georgiansilver, it is a shame that you even responded to this nonsense. I would have suggested that you ignore it. Sharing what makes you tick is not wrong, in fact it is noble. Proselytizing is another matter, but unless I missed it, you never did that. I wish I could offer "All the best" at this moment, but somehow I just can't find it in me. Mick |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: Georgiansilver Date: 28 Jul 04 - 10:04 AM Big Mick. Thank you and I appreciate your input, however, I am not here to anooy or upset folk, just to be part of it and enjoy chat..especially the music side. If it oppresses some folk that I use Be Blessed then I can change and have no problem with it. I accept that some have been manipulated and cajoled into thinking the way they do..but I am also not in the business of antagonising if I can help it...at least not deliberately. Some will have great delight in my change of heart and others will be saddened by it..but it will not pre-occupy me. Those who were...how can I say... "responsible"(if that is the word) for my change of heart will either find something else to challenge me for, or have a go at someone else because that is the way they operate. Who are we to say if that is right or wrong. Best wishes, Mike. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: jimmyt Date: 28 Jul 04 - 10:20 AM Mick, I certainly did not mean to force anything on GeorgianSilver with my posts. In fact, if you read from the beginning, it seems to me that Georgian silver was saying in so many words, what am I doing that is bothering folks. I would have never made any suggestion unless he had requested one. I know Jerry pretty well and I believe he feels the same. I think you may be perceiving a conspiracy that does not exist. Certainly on the part of most of the folks who have responded to this thread. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: Big Mick Date: 28 Jul 04 - 10:35 AM I simply think you are wrong, jimmyt, and I will tell you why. GS has been the subject of attack here from a bitter man in Chicago. Once upon a time I welcomed this person here. I regret that. This person is a destructive bully. When intellect fails, he falls into the old "calling names" tactic. GS has had threads started about him, been attacked, and unfortunately he responded. Finally, the attack centered on his beliefs. I reread the opening posts before I ever responded here. What I saw was a man who was explaining why he responds the way he does. He was not asking for guidance as you suggest. He was simply setting up the predicate that says we should have respect for one anothers views. Bill D, a friend of mine, suggested that he was proselytizing. News flash for you, folks. Proselytizing would be trying to convince you that his way was best and you needed to follow it. Here is what he actually said. I am a Christian and intend to treat all I meet with respect and civility but sometimes fail to do this as a result of a human failure.... which is not taking time to think!!!. I love all Gods kids(even those who don't know Him personally) and think that each of us....however brought into the world...however brought up...should be given the benefit of the doubt. You can chastise me for my beliefs.....you can call me whatever names you wish (as Martin does often) but nothing will change my way. Respect and civility for all....even those who like to think of themselves as my enemies. That is not proselytizing, that is a simple statement of the basis for his posts, a defense in the face of numberous attacks, and a request. That request is for one of the things that made Mudcat what it is today. That thing is a respect for one anothers views, and being civil. We have many pagans on this forum. Many of them are my friends. Not once have I heard them chastised for using the phrase "Blessed Be", or heard feminists chastised for spelling with a "y" instead of an "e". Nor should I. That is a simple statement of the belief system from which they operate. I respect others beliefs. If GS, or any of the others were pro-actively trying to use this place as a forum for trying to gain converts, I would be with you. They are not. They are simply using terminology that accurately portrays who they are. That is not wrong. Mick |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: JennyO Date: 28 Jul 04 - 10:53 AM I agree with what Big Mick said at 9.56am. The way it has gone here makes me very sad. What's the matter with you people? What a strange thing to feel offended by! I'm not even a Christian, and I can take it in the spirit in which it was intended. As I said to you earlier in the thread, Georgiansilver, you can say Be Blessed to me any time. In fact, I will feel honoured if you do. Jenny |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: mg Date: 28 Jul 04 - 11:19 AM This has really been scary to watch. They will go after you at some point for wearing a crucifix, like they have gone after little girls in France for wearing a headscarf, like they have gone after Sikhs for wearing a turban. It is mass selfishness and we are on a slippery slope to God knows what. Whatever God, goddess, you might wish to assume or not if that is your preference. The all too easily offended are tyrants. mg |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: Big Mick Date: 28 Jul 04 - 11:24 AM Or little girls going to school in Belfast. Right on, friend Mary. Mick |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: mooman Date: 28 Jul 04 - 11:36 AM I also agree with Big Mick. GS should be able to sign himself as he wants. I see no sign at all of proselytizing in "Be Blessed". "Blessings" are by no means the sole domain of Christianity. I am a Buddhist and usually sign myself out with "Peace" and have so for a long time. I could therefore probably equally be accused of proselytizing although Buddhism is a strictly non-proselytizing, non-evangelizing practice. (I am probably opening myself up to some attack by even saying this but don't give a fig!) On that note, I also support what Mary Garvey said. A little more tolerance and a little less judgementalism would probably not be amiss. Peace, moo |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: Jerry Rasmussen Date: 28 Jul 04 - 01:01 PM Sorry you feel that way, Mick: I think that it's clear that I don't have a problem with blessing people. Or having people bless me. But, when someone tells me that something is upsetting to them, I generally speaking don't do it any more, if I see some way to remain true to who I am and can express myself in some other way. I have no way of knowing whether they are really upset, or just trying to be asses. There are both kinds of people responding to this thread, I think. Probably the closest friend I have ever had in my life is Art Theime, who is an Atheist. I love Art and respect him very much. I know that he has personally been seriously hurt by people claiming to be Christians, and so I correspond with him differently than I would to my Christian (and God-believing) friends. I have friends who have been cruelly mistreated in the name of Jesus Christ. My faith is very simple. God is love. I try to respond to people and treat them out of love, as best I can. If someone is uncomfortable with my Christianity, I try to be sensitive of that. If they say that something I am saying or doing is bothering them, I'd try to talk about it, understand why, and then find a different way to communicate with them. In a public forum like this, there's no way to know the sincerity of people. Some, like Harmony Stella reek bitterness, and are here to offend people. That's an easy call. But, there are others in this forum like Art and Bill D who I have a great respect for. When a posting is directed to someone specific, as I am directing this to you, Mick, I feel I can say "May Christ's face shine upon you" and not offend you. If I post a message to others in here who I know don't believe in God, or Christ, I would not use that closing. Or even Be Blessed. Why close a message to someone by using a phrase that you know will be offensive? So, Be Blessed, Mick, and Jimmy and Little Hawk and ColK and Khandu and those who share my faith. For all my other friends, I send all of my good wishes. Be Blessed, Mick Jerry |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: Big Mick Date: 28 Jul 04 - 01:09 PM Thanks for the blessing, Jerry. I guess what I have a tremendous disagreement with here is this. There is a huge difference between a personal response to a specific person in a conversation and a general closing to my posts. I feel as though GS is being attacked not for what he says, but for who he is. And that is wrong. His "Be Blessed" is a very neutral comment that could be used by folks of any stripe from Atheist to Fundie whatever. To attack, or criticize, or in your and my case, to fail to defend seems incongrous to me within the realm of respectful and civil behaviour. Know that I have great respect for you, Jerry. I just disagree mightily on this issue. I apologize for singling you out as I did. But this troubles like few things have here. All the best, Mick |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: Nerd Date: 28 Jul 04 - 01:24 PM Hey, Mooman, precisely my point on 26 Jul 04 - 02:00 PM, and with the same example, too! Peace, Nerd |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: saulgoldie Date: 28 Jul 04 - 01:33 PM Well, for as muddled as this relatively simple notion has been made...If someone told me that they found something I said offensive and asked me not to say it, I would repsect their wishes, even if I knew in my heart that I was somehow "right." It matters not what the nature of whatever is being said is. What matters is that I respect their wishes. I think the fact that in this case it is of a religious nature is causing a lot of people a lot of unnecessary confusion over the root issue of respecting others. Tragically, this happens all the time when religion is involved. If you simply remove religion from the equation and diagram the argument using (some phrase) in the place of "be blessed" then the core issue becomes easier to see. Any competent relationship therapist will agree with me on this. "But, Honey, when I say, 'I really liked the way you set out that meal tonight,' I didn't mean that I see you as subservient, even if that is the way you perceived it." Do I want to die on this hill? Um, well, no. But this is a very basic point from which emminate faulty world views. So it is not unimportant. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: Blackcatter Date: 28 Jul 04 - 01:46 PM This is a sad day. I have had my problems with GS, which I've noted in another thread and have also said it is my personal issues that have something to do with it. I haven't said anything about the "Be Blessed" sign off, simply because since it was a sign off, in my mind not meant to be directed at particular persons, just as a sign off. I've been hurt by Chirstians time and time again, but I try to accept each perosn on their own basis, regardless of whether they're Christian or not. I also know several very good Christians, I hope that GS is among those that I know at Mudcat. I am Pagan and Unitarian Universalist - which is something that I don't hide, but also don't make a big deal about. But following those two faiths, it would be easy to start signing off: Be Blessed. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: Jerry Rasmussen Date: 28 Jul 04 - 01:52 PM Somehow, this whole conversation has become exhausting. Who would think that wishing all good things for someone could be so volitile? I don't know, Mick. I can see your point, and I guess that you can see mine, in not signing off with something that is bothersome to an individual. I can see your point too, that if someone is just signing off generally, they should have a right to sign off in any way they want. Maybe I'm wrong on this one. It wouldn't be the first time. In the long run, all we can do is govern ourselves as best we can. Sometimes, I want to throw my hands up in frustration at this place. You can use pretty much any obscenity you want in here and people defend your right to say it. Too often, those same people who will defend your right to use obscenities are the first to say you have no right to use words of praise. Funny thing too is that "Spirituality" is o.k., but "Religion" isn't around here. "God" is the ultimate four letter word for many people in here. I try to be sensitive to others and adjust my language accordingly. But sometimes you can't win for losing. Jerry |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: saulgoldie Date: 28 Jul 04 - 02:02 PM No, I refrain from obsenity when I discover that it offends people. It really is not that complicated. If something you say offends, stop saying it. Unless you are specifically trying to drive home a point. In that case, persist but accept the slings and arrows that will undoubtedly come your way and don't whine about it. Others' feelings deserve our respect. We show our civility by respecting their wishes. And that goes directly to the title of this thread. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: weerover Date: 28 Jul 04 - 02:15 PM I continue to be bemused about how someone can be *offended* by the phrase in question. If they don't particularly believe in the concept of blessings, why is it not simply neutral or meaningless to them, unless directed deliberately to (say) a committed atheist and intended sarcastically or maliciously? wr. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: jacqui.c Date: 28 Jul 04 - 02:25 PM I am not involved with any religious group - I have my own take on spirituality that I will discuss if asked but which is personal to me. I don't see GS's 'be blessed' as an insult to me and find it rather refreshing that, in what can be a very self interested, materialistic and cynical world there are still people who have enough simple faith to want to try to follow the teachings of Christ and sufficient belief in their fellow man to try to thnk the best of them at all times. It makes a change from those who seem to have to put down and insult others for no apparent reason. I know which of the two types I would prefer to meet. I'll go along with Jenny - keep using be blessed GS - it's part of who you are and I will miss it. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: jimmyt Date: 28 Jul 04 - 02:35 PM Exhausting as the whole thread is, I think StellaHarmony is the most clever line in the fray. Be Blessed, Jerry |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: Georgiansilver Date: 28 Jul 04 - 04:42 PM ..........people are the same, wherever you go...There's good and bad..in everyone. Learn to live...and learn to give each other...what we need to survive..etc etc Great song, Great singer. Best wishes. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: Strollin' Johnny Date: 28 Jul 04 - 05:05 PM I'm blessed by knowing you as a kind and generous man Mike. You have my wholehearted permission to sign off 'Be Blessed' when you answer any of my posts, I take it as an honour. John :0) |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: Once Famous Date: 28 Jul 04 - 06:16 PM We are all so blessed here! Big Mick, I'm not bitter! I found the Be blessed thing annoying. still do. Just look at how much mileage you all got to occupy your day with this topic of discussion. I've not censored anyone. I don't run this forum I simply voiced my opinion that it's far from the way normal people converse with each other. But, I am not a Christian, either. In many ways, grateful for that. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: Georgiansilver Date: 28 Jul 04 - 06:50 PM Well good for you Martin. You must feel really pleased with yourself. No you are not bitter...just playing silly games. May the Lord truly pour out his Blessings on you for being such a great guy. Best wishes, Mike. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: Georgiansilver Date: 28 Jul 04 - 07:01 PM For me...sticking to the music threads might be a good idea. There seems to be a much more pleasant class of people there...whether Christian or non-Christian....Respect and Civility costs nothing except a little give....Best wishes and Be Blessed all of you, |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: Jerry Rasmussen Date: 28 Jul 04 - 07:24 PM I'm outta here, meself. Too hurtful in here. Maybe it's time we all give this a rest. Jerry |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: Georgiansilver Date: 28 Jul 04 - 07:32 PM Respect and Civility is a thing of the distant past I believe. Am I just imagining things? Be Blessed. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: Once Famous Date: 28 Jul 04 - 08:24 PM See ya. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: Cluin Date: 29 Jul 04 - 12:05 AM Well you can wish me a blessing any old time. A nice lady did that for me last year and things worked out pretty good. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 29 Jul 04 - 12:45 AM I'm always willing to accept prayers and blessings provided with good intent - other than those to force me to change my Religious Beliefs. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility From: Folk Form # 1 Date: 21 Feb 08 - 08:16 AM There is no God! |
