BS: Can I get me a hunting licence here?

Subject: BS: Can I get me a hunting licence here?
From: GUEST,Apollo
Date: 29 Oct 04 - 01:24 AM

"When Johnny went a-huntin'
In Ohio this week, John Kerry tried to stage something for the press to show that he's not an anti-gun elitist who looks down his nose at the voting public. But the dog-and-pony show he put on in order to hunt geese in Ohio the other day largely served as another political opportunity for the Bush campaign and the National Rifle Association to remind gun owners that few senators have been as hostile to them as Mr. Kerry.
Mr. Kerry's Ohio hunting adventure started last Saturday, when the senator, campaign entourage in tow, went into a grocery store and asked the owner: "Can I get me a hunting license here?"
He's triangulating — trying to do whatever he can to to persuade hunters he's their buddy, without completely alienating animal-rights backers on the political left who might be inclined to support him.
http://washingtontimes.com/op-ed/20041022-090857-8206r.htm
Apollo

Subject: RE: BS: Can I get me a hunting licence here?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 29 Oct 04 - 08:48 AM

If he thinks there's a place for hunting with guns, but that there should be sensible limits on gun ownwership, what's wrong with that? Doesn't every rational person, apart from those who are completely opposed to gun ownership, believe in this?

Subject: RE: BS: Can I get me a hunting licence here?
From: NH Dave
Date: 29 Oct 04 - 09:29 AM

The thing is, throughout most of the states, people may own guns without a license to do so, and may only own fully automatic weapons - hold down the trigger and more than one cartridge fired - with a license from the federal government. There are exceptions to this of course. Mass. and New York, and probably others as well, have laws against pistol or gun ownership without a state issued license to do so. Additionally the law barring ownership of "assault type" weapons recently expired with little but small complaints.

Unfortunately, as the bumper stickers state, "When guns are outlawed only outlaws will own guns." Thus criminals in Mass and NY have little difficulty obtaining guns to aid them in their crimes, so all these laws do is prevent honest people from buying guns for sport or protection.

Additionally, since the issue of gun ownership has become such an emotional one, a graduating student in a local town has been prohibited from using a picture of him, in a shooting jacket with a opened shotgun over his left shoulder, in his graduation yearbook. Granted, this is a knee-jerk reaction to tragedies such as occurred at Columbine High School, in Colorado, and other locations, but it hasn't seemed to curtain gun ownership. The student is appealing this decision through the courts, with the financial aid of shooting organizations.   

Dave

Subject: RE: BS: Can I get me a hunting licence here?
From: GUEST,Bobbi F.K.
Date: 29 Oct 04 - 11:03 AM

Interesting diction from a Yale educated lawyer.
Tough to feel much sympathy for a candidate who says he was "too lazy" to carry the bird back himself.Most of those who have any morals and hunt wild game do so to eat the meat. Anybody see Teresa cleaning and cooking this one?

Subject: RE: BS: Can I get me a hunting licence here?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 29 Oct 04 - 11:19 AM

Whether Mr. Kerry could get a hunting license in Ohio has virtually nothing to do with national policies and regulations. Hunting is licensed by each state, independent of what other states may do. Most states, in fact, encourage people who DO NOT INTEND TO HUNT to "buy a license," since that's the source for much of the funding that supports wildlife management (including parks and habitat).

At the Federal level, more "duck stamps" - required to hunt migratory game birds - are sold to non-hunting stamp collectors in recent years than to hunters. (Also true of the "marijuana stamp," I'm told.) Many hunters buy two duck stamps, since one has to be pasted on the license and is thus spoiled as a collectible.

And did Mr. Kerry know he needed a "Fedral Migratory Game Bird Stamp" affixed to his license to hunt geese?

Just another set-up photo op.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Can I get me a hunting licence here?
From: Rapparee
Date: 29 Oct 04 - 11:47 AM

A little bit about New York City's "Sullivan Law":

In the late 19th century New York started trying to develop its own strong gun control act, but nothing passed with success. However in 1910 mayor William J. Gaynov was shot and seriously injured from a disgruntled former public employee, and in 1911 the popular novelist David Graham Philips was shot and killed on a New York City sidewalk. These two incidents plus statistics showing that gun homicides in New York had risen 50 percent from 1910-1911, created an outcry from the people of New York to create a new gun control legislation.

This law which is still in effect today, stood as a model for gun legislation for 50 years. The law required people to acquire a license to possess or carry a firearm small enough to conceal. The law also made it illegal for aliens to possess firearms in any public place. Which created controversy between many opponents of gun control, saying that not allowing aliens to posses a gun in a public place presented "ulterior motives", and "illegitimacy" of such measures. After this law was in place in 1912 the firearm suicide rate declined by 40 percent, however, gun related homicide rate increased. There was much debate if this law had any real effect on gun violence, however, some believe that without this law New York's gun violence would have been much higher then it is today.

I've read estimates that as many as 1 in 4 NYC residents are carrying a gun. And there isn't any way in the world you can convince me that folks in NYC are hunting anything other than each other.

I am NOT opposed to rational gun control. I own guns, and I shoot guns, and I've hunted and plan to do so in the future, and I have a state-issued permit to "carry concealed." In slightly over a year in Idaho, I know of only one person (other than cops) who overtly carries a weapon and THAT isn't concealed at all.

As far as my "carry permit" is concerned -- it's unused. I have it for a variety of reasons, one of which is to force myself to review gun safety procedures periodically. And yes, the guns and ammo are locked up (seperately).

Subject: RE: BS: Can I get me a hunting licence here?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 29 Oct 04 - 11:55 AM

Everything is a set up photo-op a couple of weeks before the election. Is anyone surprised? Why worry if Theresa is cleaning the goose, would Laura? It's a silly observation. Are you afraid that bird went to waste? I doubt it.

Though they'd like people to think so, it isn't necessary to ever have anything to do with the NRA if one wants to hunt. Hunting without the NRA, to borrow from a popular cliche, is like a fish without a bicycle. Superflouous.

Subject: RE: BS: Can I get me a hunting licence here?
From: Rapparee
Date: 29 Oct 04 - 12:21 PM

I'm not an NRA member. NMLRA, yes -- that's the Nation Muzzle Loading Rifle Association, seperate and distinct from the NRA. We shoot flintlocks and such.

Subject: RE: BS: Can I get me a hunting licence here?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 29 Oct 04 - 01:20 PM

We shoot flintlocks and such. The kind of weapons that "right to bear arms " was meant to cover, surely?

Subject: RE: BS: Can I get me a hunting licence here?
From: GUEST,Rapaire
Date: 29 Oct 04 - 02:08 PM

Cookie Monster seems to have been here....

Yes and no. They were the weapons available at the time, but have since been "improved". (I use the quotes deliberately.)

But I think that if you can't shoot something with, at most, two shots what makes you think you can hit it with twenty? Destroying the landscape to shoot a rabbit is neither hunting nor marksmanship.

Subject: RE: BS: Can I get me a hunting licence here?
From: pdq
Date: 29 Oct 04 - 02:53 PM

A grizzly has the "right to bear arms". He also has the "right to bear feet".

Subject: RE: BS: Can I get me a hunting licence here?
From: CarolC
Date: 29 Oct 04 - 03:06 PM

Support your right to arm bears

Subject: RE: BS: Can I get me a hunting licence here?
From: pdq
Date: 29 Oct 04 - 03:11 PM

I think the "right to arm chairs" is more likely.

Subject: RE: BS: Can I get me a hunting licence here?
From: Ebbie
Date: 29 Oct 04 - 03:33 PM

We seem to have two issues going here. So Senator Kerry went into a grocery store and asked if he could buy a hunting license there. (Valid, even though in most of the states I've lived, hardware stores are more likely to be a license outlet.) Presumably he already had his gun. This has nothing to do with licensing gun ownership.

So yeah. I can believe that it was a photo op. But as long as he didn't break down in tears at the bird(s) he killed, I would think that people would accept thathe has done it before, that he is a hunter. As he has said before.

Subject: RE: BS: Can I get me a hunting licence here?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 29 Oct 04 - 03:44 PM

And Kerry wasn't going hunting with the Supreme Court justice who was in the unique (many say unprecedented) position to decide on a case concerning documents Cheney should or shouldn't turn over (or was it about the company he ran? Cheney has his iron in so many suspicious fires).

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Can I get me a hunting licence here?
From: GUEST,MarkS
Date: 29 Oct 04 - 03:56 PM

Here in New Jersey, if Mr. Kerry wanted to buy a hunting license, he would have to show either his license from the previous year or a certificate showing he had successfully passed a firearms safety course. He would then be eligible to buy a non-resident license.
Can't speak for all states, but I suspect there is nowhere where you can just walk into an outlet and buy a license without proper documentation.
Mark

Subject: RE: BS: Can I get me a hunting licence here?
From: Nerd
Date: 29 Oct 04 - 04:03 PM

Kerry apparently bagged a couple of geese in Ohio, enough to convince most people he is a hunter. And anyway, he IS a hunter, so photo-op or not, what's the difference?

As for the wording, if you listen to the audio (you can find it at Rush Limbaugh, among other places), it sounds like he is stumbling on the sentence, not affecting a "hick" speech pattern. Rush tries to spin it that Kerry is affecting a "hick" pattern, so you hear Kerry say:

"can I get...me...uh...hunting license here?" in his completely normal voice and accent.

(Then Rush says

"Did you hear that? 'Can Ah Git Me a Huntin' Lahsense heyaeh?' This is what he thinks we sound like...")

And how exactly has Kerry been hostile to hunters? Explain this bizarre claim, please.

Subject: RE: BS: Can I get me a hunting licence here?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 29 Oct 04 - 08:14 PM

So what's the problem? Do you not need hunting licences in Ohio? or is it that any fool knows that you can't get them in grocery stores? Or is it that photo opportunities are un-American?

Subject: RE: BS: Can I get me a hunting licence here?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 29 Oct 04 - 09:52 PM

It is silly to grouse about the hunting photo, after Bush donned the bomber jacket last year and headed out to the aircraft carrier.

Subject: RE: BS: Can I get me a hunting licence here?
From: Rapparee
Date: 29 Oct 04 - 09:56 PM

1. Having lived in Ohio, I can assure everyone that you need a hunter education course. HOWEVER, Kerry (like myself) is probably grandfathered out of the requirement because of his age. Also, as far as I know all of the states that have a hunter safety course requirement for a hunting license reciprocates with the rest. Basically, it's a non-issue here.

2. Kerry got a non-resident license (ALWAYS more expensive, sometimes much more) and shot two Canada geese. Good. They are hardly an endangered species.

3. Whether he ate or will eat the meat or donated it to a foodbank or "Hunters For The Hungry" is his decision.

4. In Ohio and other states, especially in rural areas, a grocery store or even a gas station might very well sell hunting and fishing licenses -- as well as firearms, ammunition, fishing tackle, bait, and such things.

6. Even in states as populous as Ohio, even Northeastern Ohio (where Kerry was), you might be surprised how rural "rural" can be.

7. Photo op -- sure, why not? It's an election year and the press is following him and Bush and others around like dogs after a bone. I'd make use of the opportunity to do some hunting and get some positive publicity too (if I was crazy enough to run for anything).

Subject: RE: BS: Can I get me a hunting licence here?
From: Amos
Date: 29 Oct 04 - 10:08 PM

http://www.bandofcitizens.org/citizenflicks/visualizewinning.html

A

Subject: RE: BS: Can I get me a hunting licence here?
From: Rapparee
Date: 30 Oct 04 - 10:30 AM

That's nice, Amos, but I'm not allowed to vote. For me to vote on November 2 would be, well, illegal. Idaho won't let me vote.

















Specifically, I voted about three weeks back, and Idaho won't let me vote again. They're real testy about it, too.

Subject: RE: BS: Can I get me a hunting licence here?
From: van lingle
Date: 31 Oct 04 - 07:35 AM

Hmmm, a hunter who wants to do some hunting in autumn? Very suspicious.

Subject: RE: BS: Can I get me a hunting licence here?
From: GUEST,Apollo
Date: 31 Oct 04 - 08:16 AM

"How do the elites view you?
Ben Webb...
The elites...a group of people that hardly anybody likes to mention by name but the disdain for them is universal...
The perpetration of certain myths that diplomacy and alliances are a sign of weakness is Neanderthal," Heinz Kerry said. "I never heard of teaching a child to make enemies so they can get along in the playground...
Can I get me a hunting liscense here?" - John Kerry"

http://www.opinioneditorials.com/freedomwriters/bwebb_20041029.html

Apollo

Subject: RE: BS: Can I get me a hunting licence here?
From: Ebbie
Date: 01 Nov 04 - 01:35 AM

"The lower and middle class often grumble sarcastic questions about how elites are able to do anything better if their noses are always in the air instead of focusing their eyes on what is really happening. " Ben Webb from the link

With a sentence like that, I can see why Mr. Webb feels insecure when he measures himself against the "elite".

Subject: RE: BS: Can I get me a hunting licence here?
From: CarolC
Date: 01 Nov 04 - 01:29 PM

I keep remembering that video clip of Bush speaking at some kind of dinner with a lot of very wealthy and powerful people in attendance. He says something like this, "people call you the haves and the have-mores. I call you my base".

Ron Reagan (who probably knows this from his own experience with being a member of a family that occupied the halls of power for eight years), said something along these lines about the little people Bush calls his friends, "you're not his friends... you're 'the help'".

Subject: RE: BS: Can I get me a hunting licence here?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 01 Nov 04 - 01:35 PM

From one source:

Kerry co-sponsors a bill that would ban all semi-automatic shotguns and detachable-magazine semi-automatic rifles, a gigantic step toward bringing Australian-style gun control to the U.S. (Signed on as co-sponsor of S. 1431 on Nov. 21, 2003.)

Kerry says, "I think you ought to tax all ammunition, personally, I think you ought to tax guns." (CNN 'Late Edition,' Nov. 7, 1993)

Kerry has voted nine times in favor of banning semi-auto firearms. (Vote No. 24, March 2, 2004; Vote No. 295, Aug. 25, 1994; Vote No. 294, Aug. 25, 1994; Vote No. 293, Aug. 25, 1994; Vote No. 375, Nov. 17, 1993; Vote No. 365, Nov. 9, 1993; Vote No. 133, June 28, 1990; Vote No. 103, May 23, 1990; Vote No. 102, May 23, 1990.)

Kerry has voted for a Ted Kennedy amendment to ban most center-fire rifle ammunition, including the most common rounds used by hunters and target shooters. (Vote No. 28, March 2, 2004.)

Kerry has voted to close off hundreds of thousands of acres of the California Mojave Desert to hunting. (Vote No. 28, March 2, 2004.)

Kerry has voted to hold the highly regulated American firearms industry legally responsible for the illegal acts of violent criminals. (Vote No. 24, March 2, 2004; Vote No. 25, March 2, 2004 ('poison pill' amendments).)

Kerry was one of only 18 Senators to oppose the Firearms Owners' Protection Act, which ended alarming abuses being committed under the 1968 Gun Control Act. (Vote No. 142, July 9, 1985.)

Kerry was one of only 29 Senators to vote to prohibit gun manufacturers from discharging debts created by the reckless lawsuits filed by municipalities. (Vote No. 4, Feb. 2, 2000.)

Kerry has voted to allow BATF to conduct unlimited warrantless inspections of FFL holders.(Vote No. 140, July 9, 1985)

Kerry has voted to criminalize legal sales between private individuals at gun shows. (Vote No, 134, May 20, 1999; Vote No. 25, March 2, 2004).

Kerry has voted to impose penalties of a year in prison and a $10,000 fine on an adult if a juvenile steals a firearm from him, and then merely displays it in a public place. (Vote No. 118, May 14, 1999; Vote No. 224, July 22, 1998.)

Kerry has voted to force many small firearms dealers out of business, which would have impacted both the availability and price of guns, particularly in rural areas. (Vote No. 227, July 30, 1993.)

Kerry has voted 11 times to force law-abiding citizens to wait to exercise their Second Amendment rights. He voted to keep the federal waiting period after the National Instant Check System was in place. (Vote No. 141, July 9, 1985; Vote No. 115, June 28, 1991; Vote No. 113, June 28, 1991; Vote No. 278, Nov. 27, 1991; Vote No. 53, Mar. 19, 1992; Vote No. 262, Oct. 2, 1992; Vote No. 385, Nov. 19, 1993; Vote No. 386, Nov. 19, 1993; Vote No. 387, Nov. 19, 1993; Vote No. 390, Nov. 19, 1993; Vote No. 394, Nov. 20, 1993.

Kerry voted twice to eliminate the Civilian Marksmanship Program. (Vote No. 325 Oct. 12, 1993; Vote No. 178, June 27, 1996.)

Kerry wants to silence gun owners' voices. When NRA sought the same exemption from campaign finance rules that news organizations have, Kerry called that effort "hijacking America's airwaves." (Vote No. 64, April 2, 2001; Kerry asks FEC to Block NRA Channel,' AP, Dec. 9, 2003.)

Kerry commended the Million Mom March for their march on Washington that included calls for gun owner licensing, gun registration and other restrictions on law-abiding gun owners. (Vote No. 104, May 17, 2000.)

If elected president, Kerry will pack the U.S. Supreme Court with Dianne Feinstein/Chuck Schumer/Ted Kennedy-selected anti-gun activists who believe you have no right to own any firearm. (Speculation.)

Hunter???? Of course, as President he'd be exempt from any rules, so he could still hunt.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Can I get me a hunting licence here?
From: Rapparee
Date: 01 Nov 04 - 02:33 PM

JiK, the President is not exempt from the rules. Cheney said that because the President did it it was legal, and I remember Nixon trying the same defense.

It didn't fly either time.

Subject: RE: BS: Can I get me a hunting licence here?
From: Nerd
Date: 01 Nov 04 - 02:33 PM

Oh, "one source." Thanks John!

Wouldn't care to tell us what that source was, would you?































Hint: it's the lobbying wing of the NRA.

As with much of the NRA propaganda, they claim to be primarily about hunting, when in fact what they wish is unregulated access to guns. Notice that the list uses inflammatory language but often does not tell you what Kerry was voting for or against, to wit:

Kerry was one of only 18 Senators to oppose the Firearms Owners' Protection Act, which ended alarming abuses being committed under the 1968 Gun Control Act. (Vote No. 142, July 9, 1985.)

How do we know there were alarming abuses? Why, the NRA tells us so! But something that is alarming to the NRA might not prove alarming to you or me.

Kerry wants to silence gun owners' voices. When NRA sought the same exemption from campaign finance rules that news organizations have, Kerry called that effort "hijacking America's airwaves."

This says to me that Kerry wanted to prevent lobbyists from masquerading as news organizations, and press releases from the NRA from masquerading as news stories. Exactly why is this supposed to be bad?


Kerry has voted to close off hundreds of thousands of acres of the California Mojave Desert to hunting.

This seems to me to be more about the Mojave desert than about hunting. Presumably even hunters understand that there will always be some places that are protected from hunting. So Kerry thinks this should be one of them. What are the REAL issues involved here? The NRA won't tell you.

Here are some more facts:

The "outdoorsman" vote is split in this election cycle, because some hunters are primarily gun voters, others are primarily wilderness voters. Bush is for unregulated gun-ownership, but he's also for privatizing and exploiting wilderness through unregulated logging, oil-drilling and polluting that would ultimately harm hunters.

Outdoors columnist Bill Cochran points out:

Who will get the outdoorsmen vote? That?s not as easy to answer as you might think. Field & Stream and Outdoor Life magazines have carried extensive interviews with both candidates, but have endorsed neither.

The editors of Field & Stream said: ?This much we know. The next president of the United States will be a sportsman. Whether it?s George W. Bush or John F. Kerry, each claims that hunting and fishing have been an integral part of his life. No matter where you stand on the political spectrum, this should come as very good news.?

[...]

?The sportsmen who will vote firearms first will vote for Bush,? Paul Hansen was quoted in the Washington Post. He is executive director of the Izaak Walton League. ?The sportsmen who will vote conservation first will have a tougher choice,? he said.

Preservation groups, like the Sierra Club, have urged their members to vote again Bush, citing what they call a poor record on conservation. These groups are more concerned about mercury in water, loggers in the national forest and oil-drillers on public land than in gun rights.

[...]

Many sportsmen are comfortable with the fact that President Bush is solidly behind the Second Amendment, but they have been disappointed that he hasn?t been more of a conservationist. Some, reluctantly, have gone to the other camp, saying, ?What good are guns if there are no places to hunt?? Others chant back, ?What good are places to hunt if you can?t own guns to hunt them??

The result is a crack in the unity of the outdoor fraternity. No where is this more evident than in the ranks of the Outdoor Writers Association of America, where some members side with the NRA and others with the Sierra Club. Still others stand on the sidelines, uncertain what to do.

So if you like to hunt, remember that neither candidate may be perfect. But the fact is, Kerry is not in favor of "banning" most hunting weapons anyway.

The NRA lobbies for handguns, automatic weapons, and other firearms that hunters don't use.

The Sierra Club lobbies for forests, deserts, and natural habitats for animals, something all hunters in the world need.

Subject: RE: BS: Can I get me a hunting licence here?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 01 Nov 04 - 03:00 PM

The above post was not advocacy. Merely in response to a previous question about why some think Mr. Kerry is not really much of a sportsman. You can probably find the same or very similar lists at numerous places, and it doesn't matter where the list comes from since the specific items include citation of the specific actions of Mr. Kerry in Congressional records.

Semi-automatic rifles and shotguns are quite commonly used for hunting, and Kerry has voted numerous times to ban them. He has also voted to ban commonly used hunting cartridges. That's not very sensational, and doesn't require a "party line" to see. His record indicates an "unfriendly" attitude toward sportsmen - including shooters who are not primarily hunters.

The 1968 Gun Control Act was a negotiated work, that was created to answer some of the complaints of anti-gun interests. As it was written, it contained specific provisions for the collecting, use, and retention of records on individual gun purchasers. The act was specifically violated by the FBI and Treasury Departments via the keeping and use of records that, under the provisions of the law, were NOT to be retained beyond the time required for the specific uses enumerated in the law. There were also numerous documented demands by both FBI and Treasurey for records NOT required under the law. Mr. Kerry apparently favored "legitimizing" this illegal action.

"The NRA lobbies for handguns, automatic weapons, and other firearms that hunters don't use." So it's okay to trample the little guys, as long as they're not too numerous? Or as long as they're not your guys? Or as long as you don't enjoy their recreations?

Neither candidate, in my opinion - which is not too humble - shows respect for the LAW, and particularly for Constitutional history; and both candidates have demonstrated and continue to demonstrate pandering to special interests that I find dangerous and repugnant.

Hard choice. Probably comes down to which one is least likely to actually accomplish what they promise.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Can I get me a hunting licence here?
From: Nerd
Date: 01 Nov 04 - 03:17 PM


"The NRA lobbies for handguns, automatic weapons, and other firearms that hunters don't use." So it's okay to trample the little guys, as long as they're not too numerous? Or as long as they're not your guys? Or as long as you don't enjoy their recreations?

Huh?

What the hell does this mean, John? Who are the "little guys" supposed to be, the handgun lobby?

No, my point was that your propaganda was copied from a "factsheet" distributed by a lobbying organization whose agenda is not hunting but guns. To claim that the NRA opposing Kerry means he is "anti-hunting" requires the premise that they are about hunters' rights. They are not. They are about guns and the gun industry.

Kerry may be "unfriendly" to SOME hunters, if they wish to use certain guns that he opposes. If they wish to use a handgun or an uzi, for example, he would be "unfriendly" to them, although I understand that most hunters do not use these weapons. In SOME cases, weapons that Kerry wishes to regulate and weapons that hunters wish to use may coincide. But WHY he opposes the guns is an important question, and the NRA doesn't care. They simply spout meaningless rhetoric like

Kerry wants to silence gun owners' voices. When NRA sought the same exemption from campaign finance rules that news organizations have, Kerry called that effort "hijacking America's airwaves."

As though this has anything to do with hunting.

Subject: RE: BS: Can I get me a hunting licence here?
From: Rapparee
Date: 01 Nov 04 - 03:33 PM

Actually, many hunters DO use hanguns (including my own brother, who uses, during the appropriate season, a .44 Magnum revolver with a 10" barrel). I have gone hunting for squirrels with a .22 semiautomatic pistol (didn't get any, didn't even fire a shot). And were I to go into the woods around here I'd carry my .38 Special revolver (although not for hunting -- the cougars here HAVE been known to attack people) and I'd prefer a .357.

But between heavy stuff suitable to hunting deer, etc. and small stuff useful for squirrels and rabbits, I can't figure out what the middle range would be useful for in hunting.

Subject: RE: BS: Can I get me a hunting licence here?
From: Nerd
Date: 01 Nov 04 - 05:13 PM

Yes, Rapaire, I did say MOST hunters.

Subject: RE: BS: Can I get me a hunting licence here?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 01 Nov 04 - 05:35 PM

It apparently is little noted, but the "Campaign Reform Act" which limits(?) campaign donations, including sponsoring of media, contains a provision that no one may contradict anything that "the media says" during the final days before an election. Some of us believe that this is intended as a "gag rule" - and is a violation of free speech principles. The NRA, and several other groups thereby prevented from responding to potential campaign rhetoric did protest. They lost, because politicians on both sides supported the provision.

The argument for the provision was supposedly to prevent a lobbying organization from "blitzing" the media immediately before the election. The effect is that any candidate, or any "recognized broadcaster" can make any claim they want to in the last couple of weeks, and NO ONE WITH A CONTRARY OPINION - except perhaps another broadcaster - is ALLOWED to buy broadcast time to refute them.

"Only the Press is entitled to free speech?"

John

Subject: RE: BS: Can I get me a hunting licence here?
From: GUEST,Cramden
Date: 01 Nov 04 - 08:50 PM

Go Johnny Go.
Expose the arrogant asshole.

Ralph

Subject: RE: BS: Can I get me a hunting licence here?
From: GUEST,GoingToTheJohnInKansas
Date: 01 Nov 04 - 11:57 PM

It apparently is little noted, but the "Campaign Reform Act" which limits(?) campaign donations, including sponsoring of media, contains a provision that no one may contradict anything that "the media says" during the final days before an election.

It is little noted because it is not true. Anyone may say whatever they want.   They simply can't use the airwaves, which are public property held in trust, to do it. As you point out, both sides supported this provision, and only lobbyists opposed it. Boo-hoo!

Subject: RE: BS: Can I get me a hunting licence here?
From: Rapparee
Date: 02 Nov 04 - 09:32 AM

Sorry, Nerd. Read too fast, I guess.