BS: It's over. Bush wins!

Subject: RE: BS: It's over. Bush wins!
From: Bert
Date: 05 Nov 04 - 08:01 PM

OK Martin "Bush Wins" But now PROVE IT!

Subject: RE: BS: It's over. Bush wins!
From: GUEST,Wilhelmina
Date: 05 Nov 04 - 07:36 PM

"Today, Doctors Without Borders announced
that it is leaving Iraq. In March of 2003, Iraq had 150 international
relief organizations working inside its borders. Today it has less than
50. The country is devolving into madness. Tens of thousands of Iraqis
have died. Thousands more are wounded. American casualties exceed
10,000.

"The only future for Iraq -- which is growing faster than any
OPEC country except Nigeria -- is as an oil colony of the West. To feed
its people, educate them and house them, it must open its oil wells
full blast and sell as much oil as it can to the world market. Can it
do that without civil war? It looks doubtful. If it can avoid war, will
there be enough money to rebuild a country devastated by both Saddam
and then the Pentagon? Again, it looks doubtful.

Like his fellow Texan, Lyndon Johnson, our just-re-elected president
deceived America into waging an immoral war that it cannot win. Bush
has locked us into a religious war with the Muslim world that will last
decades. Today, we are stuck in Iraq. We cannot leave and we cannot
stay. And every week American soldiers stay in Baghdad costs us $1
billion.

Yes, Bush won. America, however, lost. And thousands more people will
die because Bush and the neocons lied to the American people. Don't
expect me to change my position on that.

Sincerely,
Robert Bryce
Austin, TX"

Subject: RE: BS: It's over. Bush wins!
From: GUEST,Andover Agen
Date: 05 Nov 04 - 07:03 PM

From a distribution list:

_________________________________________________________________________

What are people's thoughts on this?

A friend of mine got off the phone with the office of the Ohio
Secretary of State and was told the following:

- Kerry's concession has no legal bearing on who wins the election.

- Ohio has been using and counting provisional ballots the exact same
way for the past 10 elections.

- Ohio and Federal law dictate that the state will wait 10 days and
then begin counting the provisional
ballots.

- All valid provisional ballots will be counted.

- The winner of the state of Ohio shall not be considered official
until such time as all provisional ballots have been counted.

- If Kerry is found to win Ohio, regardless of his public concession,
he will win the election.

The woman she spoke with asked that people post this information far
and wide because, for whatever reason, the media aren't reporting it.

There remain a couple of questions though. As of yesterday, Secretary
of State Blackwell said there were about 175,000 provisional ballots,
but that didn't include about 10 counties that hadn't turned theirs in
yet. Did those counties include huge democratic stronghold and highly
populated Cuyahuga county, that contains Cleveland?


J. Kenneth Blackwell
Ohio Secretary of State
180 E. Broad St. 16th Floor
Columbus, OH 43215

General Telephone Number (Toll Free): 1-877-767-6446
General Telephone Number (Local): 1-614- 466-2655

Elections questions or comments:
email: [e-mail]
call: 614-466-2585

Subject: RE: BS: It's over. Bush wins!
From: Kim C
Date: 05 Nov 04 - 05:42 PM

So if we don't elect our officials by a majority vote, how are we supposed to do it?

I think I'm missing something here.

Subject: RE: BS: It's over. Bush wins!
From: GUEST,Frank
Date: 05 Nov 04 - 04:19 PM

"everyone got to vote. They are just crybabies because their saviour lost."

Crap! The election was stolen by black boxes, corporate crime and suppression of democracy by reactionary bullies.

Bush has really lost.

Frank

Subject: RE: BS: It's over. Bush wins!
From: GUEST,peedeecee
Date: 04 Nov 04 - 11:45 PM

Oh thank heaven, finally an explanation for what should have been impossible. Of course (*coughcough*) I don't believe for a moment that there is any actual correlation here (*cough*) -- it's all just sheer coincidence. The data are real, however.

Election 2004 explained

Subject: RE: BS: It's over. Bush wins!
From: Cluin
Date: 04 Nov 04 - 09:46 PM

I would flinch with embarrassment at the thought of George W. Bush meeting any other head of state in the world.


Like Canadians felt when Jean Chretien was our PM.
But at least he was entertaining. I miss him already.

Subject: RE: BS: It's over. Bush wins!
From: GUEST,Clint Keller
Date: 04 Nov 04 - 09:43 PM

You don't have to be the the Bill of Rights as long as you're the right Bill.

clint

--That almost sounds as if it meant something

Subject: RE: BS: It's over. Bush wins!
From: GUEST,peedeecee
Date: 04 Nov 04 - 07:02 PM

I mean is it really a good idea for half the people to be enslaved by the ignorance of the other half?"

This rates as one of the most moronic things I have ever read here.

Indeed it is not moronic. It represents one of the main problems with America -- the tyranny of the majority, as de Tocqueville predicted in the 18th century.

The majority always getting its way leads to LCD -- lowest common denominator -- in politics, religion, education, entertainment, and all aspects of a culture. It explains a lot of things such as American sitcoms, pop music, and movies that rely on big noises and special effects rather than intelligent ideas.

It also explains rednecks electing a president who is a clown a man with the sophistication of a booger joke. I am very glad I am not an American -- I would flinch with embarrassment at the thought of George W. Bush meeting any other head of state in the world.

Subject: RE: BS: It's over. Bush wins!
From: Bill Hahn//\\
Date: 04 Nov 04 - 06:48 PM

And here I thought I was the Bill of Rights. Fame is so fleeting.

Bill Hahn

Subject: RE: BS: It's over. Bush wins!
From: GUEST,Clint Keller
Date: 04 Nov 04 - 06:34 PM

Kim: "I don't believe the Bill of Rights has much to do with how many people vote for which candidate."

It doesn't.

It has something to do with how the winners treat the losers, that is, by NOT enslaving them, as you said in your 9:58 post--" as far as half of the country being enslaved by the ignorance of the other half... well, isn't that sort of the way it has to be in a voting situation?"

In America it is not supposed to be winner take all. If it were the victors would become the only party -- until the next coup.

clint

Subject: RE: BS: It's over. Bush wins!
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 04 Nov 04 - 05:39 PM

Something to do?

Subject: RE: BS: It's over. Bush wins!
From: Kim C
Date: 04 Nov 04 - 05:32 PM

What's the point in praying, then, if God doesn't answer?

Subject: RE: BS: It's over. Bush wins!
From: GUEST,Rich
Date: 04 Nov 04 - 05:26 PM

If only the bulk of people who showerd up to vote their conscience had actually had a conscience

Subject: RE: BS: It's over. Bush wins!
From: Once Famous
Date: 04 Nov 04 - 04:41 PM

Nice humming, bill H.

Subject: RE: BS: It's over. Bush wins!
From: Bill Hahn//\\
Date: 04 Nov 04 - 04:32 PM

Kim C:---He told me so--He doesn't (talking to folks individually).

Actually I think there is a Bluegrass song (or perhaps Gospel) that has that line in it---"I know because he told me."   Then again, there is the great line in another song---it may be Rev. Billy C Wirtz---"Jesus loves me, but he sure don't like you."   Sounds like something W might hum in the shower.

Seriously though---heard his press conference today. One commentator remarked later that the most important thing about it was that he actually had one.   I think he laid it all out in the press conference--"...I have some political capitol now--and I am going to spend it...".   Sounds a little threatening---somewhat like his other thought having to do with coming together for the good of the nation provided people agree with his aims. So---Great Communicator--No. Great Compromisor---Hmmmm, doubt that.   So---Great what---I have a few thoughts.

Bill Hahn

Subject: RE: BS: It's over. Bush wins!
From: Once Famous
Date: 04 Nov 04 - 03:27 PM

They don't want it Kim C.

everyone got to vote. They are just crybabies because their saviour lost.

They are in the minority and always will be because they just plain hate anything that looks like mainstream America.

In a way, they aren't that different from certain terrorists.

Subject: RE: BS: It's over. Bush wins!
From: Kim C
Date: 04 Nov 04 - 02:11 PM

All right then, explain to me how that's supposed to work, and how someone is supposed to win an election. You can't win an election unless the majority votes for you. If you have 10 people on a committee, and 6 people vote for Proposition A, and 4 people don't, the majority wins. Or is that not how we do it anymore? I don't believe the Bill of Rights has much to do with how many people vote for which candidate.

And one more thing, folks... all these comments about ignorance don't do much to further the cause of that unity everyone says they want so badly.

Subject: RE: BS: It's over. Bush wins!
From: GUEST,Clint Keller
Date: 04 Nov 04 - 02:02 PM

"Now then... as far as half of the country being enslaved by the ignorance of the other half... well, isn't that sort of the way it has to be in a voting situation? "

No, it ain't. We used to have a system of "checks and balances" and a Bill of Rights to protect minorities and keep them from being enslaved by the majority.

clint

Subject: RE: BS: It's over. Bush wins!
From: Once Famous
Date: 04 Nov 04 - 12:39 PM

Way to say it Kim C.

Unlike the bizzaro who above said:

"Maybe this just goes to show the rest of the world that democracy aint all its chalked up to be.

I mean is it really a good idea for half the people to be enslaved by the ignorance of the other half?"

This rates as one of the most moronic things I have ever read here.

Subject: RE: BS: It's over. Bush wins!
From: Kim C
Date: 04 Nov 04 - 09:58 AM

Okay, Clint, fair enough. That is true. It seems to me, though, that too many people do think it's up to the President to do everything, thus absolving everyone else from any personal responsibility. So, yes, we should all be on the team.

Now then... as far as half of the country being enslaved by the ignorance of the other half... well, isn't that sort of the way it has to be in a voting situation? The person who wins has to get most of the votes, which would be at least half, if two people are running. Side A and Side B are each nearly always going to think the other is ignorant. That's why they're on opposing sides.

Then what if there's a Side C, and the votes break down 3 ways? Let's say Side A gets 40%, B gets 35, and C gets 25. That would mean that 60% of the people would be subject to the decision of the other 40%. Is that any better?

Everybody can't have it THEIR way. That's why we vote. There's nothing that says we have to like the results. OVER HALF of registered voters chose their candidate. That's how the system is supposed to work. If you don't like the way the system works, then devise a plan to change it.

Personally, I think it's good to know that we're pretty much half-and-half in this country, because that means we're closer to having a balance.

Subject: RE: BS: It's over. Bush wins!
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 04 Nov 04 - 09:43 AM

I would be awfully grateful if this 48% would pull together with the 51% and go and bomb the French for me please, never liked them.

Subject: RE: BS: It's over. Bush wins!
From: Stu
Date: 04 Nov 04 - 09:22 AM

The American (or about 50% of the population - half seem OK) fascination with commies, islamic fundamentalists, ruskkies, Frenchmen and just about everyone else in the world, is due to the fact they constantly need an external threat to make them feel better, to pull together as a nation.

They have no common desire to make either themselves happy or care if their actions make other peoples lives a misery (witness the US contempt for Kyoto, the general befuddlement on everyone else's view of the Iraq war etc).

That said, I believe in the inherent goodness of people, and I think the 52% of Americans who have just elected Monkey Boy again have been frightened by years of neo-con mythologising about threats that largely do not exist.

When I was in New York, I found the people to be friendly, warm and well-informed - they made us feel very welcome.

Subject: RE: BS: It's over. Bush wins!
From: GUEST,Limey Bastard
Date: 04 Nov 04 - 07:01 AM

What is America's fascination with "Commies"? As well as the fact that god (if he exists) does not owe allegience to any one country, especially to a bumbling chimpanzee. Anyone see 9/11, the bit were that marine is bragging about having music piped into his helmet while fighting. What the HELL!!! If only they played "War, what is if good for, absolutley fuck all" then sense might reign. Good film though if a little one sided.

The bottom line being, don't blame the bush, he's just an idiot, it's those shady bastards behind that are pulling the strings.

Subject: RE: BS: It's over. Bush wins!
From: GUEST,BlueJay
Date: 04 Nov 04 - 06:39 AM

Go ahead and gloat, DEWEY. But your line of BS, (propagated by the Bush administration), is exactly why the rest of the world hates us right now.

Don't get too comfortable in your belligerance. You'd best keep in mind that 48% of the American voters DO NOT share your belief that Bush is the goddam messiah. In fact, we feel he's an idiot. He has not defended this country, as you claim, but instead done irreparable harm to our cause. It's beyond me why you think he's done anything good at all.

And learn how to spell. BlueJay

Subject: RE: BS: It's over. Bush wins!
From: Arnie
Date: 04 Nov 04 - 04:51 AM

Well, from a UK perspective, this has made Blair a very relieved man indeed. He had a few meetings with Kerry just to hedge his bets, but he's got too much invested in Iraq to see Bush kicked out. Our elections are not until next Spring but the opposition are a lot weaker than the Democrats - the Tories spent 18yrs destroying this country and are now trying to convince us that they should be in charge again. The Liberal Democrats are too small a party to make any real difference. The only good thing about the US election being over is that we in the UK will no longer be bombarded with BBC round-the-clock coverage - they actually sent almost 200 journalists to the US - all at licence-payers expense (we have no choice in the UK - if you own a TV set you are obliged by law to pay £121 p.a. to the BBC whether you watch their channels or not). Why - when we could simply watch the results on CNN??

Subject: RE: BS: It's over. Bush wins!
From: chris nightbird childs
Date: 04 Nov 04 - 03:56 AM

"I mean is it really a good idea for half the people to be enslaved by the ignorance of the other half?"

That is the most sane, most honest thing I have heard in this whole thread, and sadly, truth be told (for real this time), THAT is the American way...

Subject: RE: BS: It's over. Bush wins!
From: dianavan
Date: 04 Nov 04 - 03:51 AM

Maybe this just goes to show the rest of the world that democracy aint all its chalked up to be.

I mean is it really a good idea for half the people to be enslaved by the ignorance of the other half?

d

Subject: RE: BS: It's over. Bush wins!
From: GUEST,Clint Keller
Date: 04 Nov 04 - 02:25 AM

I think the American electorate is generally right; that's why I believe in democracy.

But only God is perfect, and every once in a while we elect a Nixon, or a Warren Harding. We do straughten out, though, and I trust we will again.

clint

Subject: RE: BS: It's over. Bush wins!
From: Dewey
Date: 04 Nov 04 - 01:31 AM

Great Patriots! Great Votes!

Chirac, Arafat, Bin Laden, Micheal Moore:

Go eat your turds!

This president is going to defend THIS country. Without the permission slip or the will of the Corrupted United nations.

I hereby pledge my loyalty to the God Ole U.S.A. as did most of the voting U.S. population.

Bush won because he supports the interests of OUR country.

This IS my country, and MY wartime President, smart enough to defend America, and kiss off the corrupt United Nations and European Union.

And not foolish enough (Like Kerry) to put this nation and the will of those who already hate us (and wish us nothing but harm) in power with the pre-requisite of a global test to defend our soveignty.

Liberals Everywhere: Stop wearing those black arm bands! You'll cut off you all of your vitals and your brains will stop working for you. Opps! perhaps collectively, that has already happened!


Dewey

P.S. this was not a letter of peace (admittedly) but a had a heck of a lot of fun writing it! Plus all you commy-liberals, who talk about peace are in general the most intolerant of the intolerant when it comes to political discourse.

And are also (NAME CALLING PERMITTED)the most militant con-descending, know it all, globalistic elitest that have even walked this planet.

OOH! THE TRUTH HURTS DOESN'T IT! The REAL WISDOM IS THE AMERICAN ELECTORATE AND THEY SPOKE (COMPLETELY AND INDEPENDANTLY ON ELECTION DAY)

Dewey

(who says let the sparks fly, a conservative should be able to post and name call, his fair share too)

the rest of you jerky know it alls, do it ALL THE TIME, And now you whine because your Global Savior SCARY KERRY (with his all knowing wisdom and intelligents) was not accepted by the American electorate.

Subject: RE: BS: It's over. Bush wins!
From: GUEST,peedeecee
Date: 04 Nov 04 - 12:39 AM

I think that the rednecks of America just voted into power the most ludicrous, ridiculous, laughingstock of a national leader since Idi Amin.

Subject: RE: BS: It's over. Bush wins!
From: GUEST,Clint Keller
Date: 04 Nov 04 - 12:02 AM

No Kim, you didn't say anything about whip-cracking; I did. You said "Clint - pulling together is up to the people, not the President."

I was pointing out that the President has to pull too; he is supposed to be on the team. That quote -- which is from Woodward's first book about Bush -- where he says he doesn't have to explain to any one, but people have to explain to him, is the voice of an autocrat. Like Nixon saying "If the president does it, that makes it legal."

And so I used the whip-cracking analogy.

The president is not supposed to get everything his own way. That's why the well-known checks and balances were built into the constitution.

Get rid of the "not" and make it "pulling together is up to the people, AND the President." and you've got what I said.

We are citizens, not subjects. And the President is a Public Servant, not a Lord.

clint

Subject: RE: BS: It's over. Bush wins!
From: Peace
Date: 03 Nov 04 - 11:52 PM

Not THAT ooops, the OTHER ooops.

Alley Ooops, Ooops . . . .

Subject: RE: BS: It's over. Bush wins!
From: Peace
Date: 03 Nov 04 - 11:51 PM

Ooops. Sorry. It's about politics. BUT, Montreal has politicians and some of them eat pizza. There's the connection, so I stand corrected and retract that ooops.

Subject: RE: BS: It's over. Bush wins!
From: Peace
Date: 03 Nov 04 - 11:49 PM

Bobert: Get a grip. This thread is about pizza. I LOVE PIZZA.

Subject: RE: BS: It's over. Bush wins!
From: Bobert
Date: 03 Nov 04 - 11:48 PM

Ahhhhh, sorry to break up the pizza party but...

...all the Bush won was the "responsibility" to clean up his own danged mess.

This election was more like yer mom tellin' you that you can't go out and play until you clean up yer danged bedroom.

Now the fun oughtta begin because Bush is thinking he's got to creat a legacy since he has gotten a second term and he is surrounded by, ahhhh, a bunch of crooks who are all on the take. Hmmmmm?

Then Bush looks inside his mind and thinks "I'm screwed!"...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: It's over. Bush wins!
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 03 Nov 04 - 11:38 PM

Pizza in Montreal or Chicago = Bleckkk. If you want the best, go to Rays Original in NYC. Finest kind.   I know, God spoke to me and said it was so.

Subject: RE: BS: It's over. Bush wins!
From: chris nightbird childs
Date: 03 Nov 04 - 11:35 PM

Chicago's definitely overrated...

Subject: RE: BS: It's over. Bush wins!
From: Peace
Date: 03 Nov 04 - 11:34 PM

Best pizza place is Pine's in Montreal. Martin, don't even THINK of telling me about some joint in Chicago. Not even a whisper!

Subject: RE: BS: It's over. Bush wins!
From: Once Famous
Date: 03 Nov 04 - 10:55 PM

Let's all send out for pizza!

Subject: RE: BS: It's over. Bush wins!
From: Kim C
Date: 03 Nov 04 - 10:50 PM

(Thanks Martin.) ;-)

Fionn, many places have early voting, up to two weeks (and sometimes more) before the election, but not everyone has implemented this yet. I voted early and waited maybe 30 minutes. In Nashville, we had a record number of early voters this year - over a million.

Bill, how are you so sure God doesn't talk to people individually?

Subject: RE: BS: It's over. Bush wins!
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 03 Nov 04 - 10:30 PM

I don't know if I would compare Cheney to Darth Vader. Darth ended up saving his son, destroying the Emperor and eliminating the dark side. I can't see Cheney doing anything that good.

Subject: RE: BS: It's over. Bush wins!
From: Bill Hahn//\\
Date: 03 Nov 04 - 09:05 PM

Peter K---Good point. Why did they have to line-up (queue) for such time---I think it was not a common thing. Still it should not occur.

       If you read my earlier post---Cheney was truly frightening. No coming together, merely gloating and looking, as I said earlier, like Darth Vader in human face---the snarl seems implanted. So that answers your query.

       To your other thoughts:   Bush understanding runs about as deep as the shore of a river at low tide. As to Powell and others---I am betting Powell is gone---Rumsfeld should be. If Rumsfeld stays then you know that no change is imminent.

       In the end--we should all grieve for the lost souls--US and UK that have been lost in this inane futility to change a culture under the name of democracy that translates to self interest.

Bill Hahn

Subject: RE: BS: It's over. Bush wins!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 03 Nov 04 - 08:57 PM

The World and its people survived Napoleon, the British Empire, the Roman Empire, the Huns, Vlad the Impaler, Hitler, Stalin, Mussolini, Mao, Genghis Khan, Tamerlane, and numerous other imperial despots.

They will survive the Bush family and the New World Order too.

Subject: RE: BS: It's over. Bush wins!
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 03 Nov 04 - 08:41 PM

My first reaction is that I'm not as depressed as I thought I would be. Bush has been immeasurably stronger in this campaign than last time - a much stronger candidate than the gauche loon of four years ago. I still cannot stomach much of what he stands for, but I see signs that he is beginning to understand some of the issues.

I didn't here the Cheney preamble, but the part of the acceptance speech I heard here in the UK gave me some hope that there will be a change of tone in the second term. (It wouldn't be the first time.) Maybe he was just playing to the gallery, but maybe he really does see that the splitting of the US into two nations has gone too far. Maybe he has even lost some confidence in the wretched neocons around him. I won't hold my breath on that, but it will be interesting to see how the Powellites fare viz a viz the Rumsfeld types in the new line-up.

The biggest worry must stil be what happens to the Supreme Court. If Bush takes his chance to stack it with (for instance) Christian fundamentalists, any prospect of reuniting the nation will have gone out of the window for 10 or 15 years.

Bravo to Kerry for the timing and tone of his concession. I assume Hillary will continue the dynastic trend in presidents next time round, or will Edwards be in the reckoning?

One other thought. Why the hell was it necessary, in a developed nation that has done this sort of thing before, for people to queue 5-8 hours in the rain to cast their votes? I've not seen anything like it since the first post-apartheid elections in South Africa, where they had every excuse.

Subject: RE: BS: It's over. Bush wins!
From: dianavan
Date: 03 Nov 04 - 08:23 PM

I am assuming they fixed the glitch in the diebold machines.

d

Subject: RE: BS: It's over. Bush wins!
From: PennyBlack
Date: 03 Nov 04 - 08:07 PM

why didn't we in the 51st State have a vote?

Subject: RE: BS: It's over. Bush wins!
From: GUEST,Pootie Tang
Date: 03 Nov 04 - 08:02 PM

I say we form a network of cells, stage attacks on the opposition and eliminate as many of them as we can.
We can release videotapes of our demands and take hostages whenever possible to prove our point.

After a few years of this they will be willing to make a deal and see it our way.

Pootie

Subject: RE: BS: It's over. Bush wins!
From: GUEST,GUEST 3
Date: 03 Nov 04 - 07:35 PM

Freekin' Nazi!

Subject: RE: BS: It's over. Bush wins!
From: GUEST,Wayne Monroe
Date: 03 Nov 04 - 07:35 PM

"No one ever went broke misunderestimating the intelligence of the American people."