BS: earthquake, related tsunami bring death

Subject: RE: BS: earthquake, related tsunami bring death
From: GUEST,John O'l;ennaine
Date: 08 Jan 05 - 07:31 PM

Reasons to feel proud of being an Australian have been fairly thin on the ground in recent years, but I am today proud to tell you that last night the three commercial free-to-air television networks jointly hosted a telethon for three and a half hours, during which Australian individuals and companies pledged more than $15 million.

Prior to that the total donated by Australians was already $110 million.

The government has pledged $1 billion.

My 7 yr-old son and 10 yr-old daughter have been busking for the last three days and raised $200.

Proud today.

John

Subject: RE: BS: earthquake, related tsunami bring death
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 09 Jan 05 - 02:01 PM

That is quite something. I imagine that the idea of the beach suddenly becoming a scene of total devastation and death must have especially hit home in Australia.

Subject: RE: BS: earthquake, related tsunami bring death
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 09 Jan 05 - 08:24 PM

A friend sent this link. There are 14 distinct images, each reached by using the "next" or "prev" links. While on each page, use the "Before" or "After" button to compare the landscape. It's astonishing how the landscape was in some cases literally scraped bare. People simply didn't have a chance.

http://homepage.mac.com/demark/tsunami/

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: earthquake, related tsunami bring death
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 10 Jan 05 - 04:38 PM

That's frightening - like so many Hiroshimas.

I've found that every tiem I see a shot of a beach or the seaside now, the images of the tidal wave and its devastation vecomes inescapable. The same way I can't see a low flying big aeroplane without thinking of September 11th, especially if it passes begind a building.

Such images have lost their innocence, for a generation.

We got a brochure through the post with all these adverts for holidays in Sri Lanka and Thailand, all put together just a few weeks ago...

Subject: RE: BS: earthquake, related tsunami bring death
From: GUEST,John O'Lennaine
Date: 10 Jan 05 - 05:03 PM

SRS -
Powerful images. An aid in trying to imagine the unimaginable.
We saw some "new" footage on TV last night of the water coming through a town in Aceh "some kilometers from the coast".
The water was up to the level of the ceilings on the ground floor, and so thick with rubble you couldn't always see the water at all - just a fluid mass of building materials, trees etc. flowing between the buildings, in the channels where the streets used to be.

Subject: RE: BS: earthquake, related tsunami bring death
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 11 Jan 05 - 11:53 AM

I saw something like that also. How to run ahead of or swim in such a dense miasma of debris? I heard one survivor say that he was lucky to have been near the beach, where he was hit by only water. After those images his words make more sense.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: earthquake, related tsunami bring death
From: GUEST,Wolfgang
Date: 12 Jan 05 - 09:36 AM

"I still find it appalling that people are using this tragedy as an opportunity to spread misinformation and hatred towards Christians"

Would we have thought such a sentence appropriate as a comment to several GUEST posts criticising the action of the US government? I guess not.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: earthquake, related tsunami bring death
From: CarolC
Date: 12 Jan 05 - 12:51 PM

Once again, Wolfgang, I will point out to you the fact that someone else took care of making that point before I even read the posts criticizing the US. You may be a big fan of ten or fifty people all posting the same thing in a row, but I am not. If someone else makes the point before me, I see no reason to add yet another comment that says essentially the same thing.

Prior to making my post, I noted that no one else had already made my point.

So fuck off, Wolfgang. Stop following me around and making the same stupid sniping remarks over and over and over and over and over. You are entirely incapable of learning anything whatever, no matter how many times I repeat the same thing.

Subject: RE: BS: earthquake, related tsunami bring death
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 12 Jan 05 - 01:14 PM

When people use criticisms of the US government as a way of sniping at Christians in general, more especially in parts of the world where Christians are a vulnerable minority, yes that is appalling, Wolfgang.

The sad thing is that, when the people in power use a distorted version of the majority religion in their as camouflage for power politics and aggrandisement, that does have a knock on effect of playing into the hands of people who will use that as a way of attacking that religion, and harassing its adherents in other parts of the world. That is just as true whether the case in point is the USA, Saudi Arabia or Israel. (Among many other examples that could be cited.)

Subject: RE: BS: earthquake, related tsunami bring death
From: CarolC
Date: 12 Jan 05 - 01:17 PM

Interesting point, McGrath. I actually don't associate the United States with any particular religion, including Christianity, so that part of Wolfgang's petty little snipe was lost on me.

Subject: RE: BS: earthquake, related tsunami bring death
From: GUEST,Wolfgang
Date: 13 Jan 05 - 10:03 AM

Carol,

my point was not the content of your remark (that's ok with me), but the language and the expression. I know from reading this thread that others had already made that point regarding the USA. Had they made that general point using the words as in my quote I would have strongly objected.

McGrath sees rightly why reading your sentence, Carol, I cringed:

Criticising a country (or its government), even if the majority in this country has one faith, is and should never be an attack upon the faith. Criticising the USA is not spreading hate against Christians and criticising SA (for instance) is not spreading hate against Muslims.

That's where I wanted to point your attention to.

I'd prefer you to answer me in more polite language, but there is no way I can influence the way how yxou like to express yourself.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: earthquake, related tsunami bring death
From: CarolC
Date: 13 Jan 05 - 12:14 PM

Wolfgang, both of the people I was responding to specifically mentioned Muslims and not just governments. At least the wording in their posts did that. Grab has since said that although his wording reads like that, it was not his intention for it to read that way.

Here is what I first objected to:

As far as sums of money go though, check this one out. As far as impressing the Muslim community - yeah right, see what the Muslim community does for its own.

No distinction is made in this statement between governments, and Muslims generally. In fact, the term "Muslim community" cannot mean anything other than all Muslims. Then concerned UK made it about Muslims with this statement:

It appears as if many in the Christian and Muslim worlds are at least united in one way. Their paranoia against each other.

Your track record of either misinterpreting, or just flat out distorting what I say is really appalling. Either you need to start reading much more carefully, or you need to stop trying to communicate complex ideas in English. Either way, I would like you to stop following me around and making outrageous mischaracterizations of what I say. And stop being such an asshole.

Subject: RE: BS: earthquake, related tsunami bring death
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 13 Jan 05 - 12:17 PM

Clearly I'll have to go back and catch up with this thread.

I actually don't associate the United States with any particular religion, including Christianity,

You're not in a unique position if you don't see this as a christian country, CarolC, because when you live in the middle of a culture, seeing it through other's eyes is a challenge. Philosophers and other scholars will point out that this dominant religion is embedded in the language, in the laws, in the traditions and in the architecture. It has severely encroached on privacy and has to be beated back all of the time. That's why non-christians struggle so mightily to try to keep the church out of government and private choices and lives.

I think it was yesterday, maybe early this morning, on NPR I heard an interview and discussion of this very topic, to do with the tsunami. How can religious organizations help, ala NGOs, in places where they are distrusted because the local view is that they're there just to prostelytize? There are religiously-based groups working hard to prevent that from happening, trying to rein in the others.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: earthquake, related tsunami bring death
From: CarolC
Date: 13 Jan 05 - 12:39 PM

Interesting points, SRS.

Subject: RE: BS: earthquake, related tsunami bring death
From: Grab
Date: 13 Jan 05 - 01:52 PM

Well, it could Carol, since I didn't mean for it to mean that! But anyway, we've been there, done that.

As an off-topic aside, you may not personally see the US as a Christian country. But in the eyes of the rest of the world, it has a reputation for being strongly Christian, with a very powerful fundamentalist lobby (from which the current President has drawn his power base) who interpret "one nation under God" to mean the Christian God. In this way it is not too different from Israel, for example.

Graham.

PS. You could still get better results by not insulting people first post out of the door...

Subject: RE: BS: earthquake, related tsunami bring death
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 13 Jan 05 - 03:04 PM

"this dominant religion is embedded in the language"..."

For example, when Bush came out with that stuff about the fight against terror being "a crusade" - I doubt if he had any idea when he put it that way that it would be seen as highly provocative and insulting, but it was, and it played right into the hands of Al Qa'eda, and has contributed to Americans dying. He should have, of course, and I think that most people in that kind of job would have had the sense not to say that. I imagine his minders must have had their head in their hands when they heard it.

Subject: RE: BS: earthquake, related tsunami bring death
From: CarolC
Date: 13 Jan 05 - 03:23 PM

Grab, Wolfgang and I have been going 'round and 'round this one for years. I gave him the benefit of the doubt a long, long time ago. He no longer has the benefit of the doubt with me. You, on the other hand, still have the benefit of the doubt with me, but you could eventually lose it if you continue to distort what I have said.

Subject: RE: BS: earthquake, related tsunami bring death
From: Grab
Date: 14 Jan 05 - 10:39 AM

What's this "continue to distort" thing?

Subject: RE: BS: earthquake, related tsunami bring death
From: Wolfgang
Date: 16 Jan 05 - 04:49 PM

Carol,

I don't follow you around, we just happen to read sometimes the same threads. If I read something I feel I might comment upon I do, even if it is a post from you. And I shall do so in future. I wish you'd try to read that without paranoid thoughts. And save the strong words for Martin, he may appreciate them.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: earthquake, related tsunami bring death
From: CarolC
Date: 16 Jan 05 - 06:03 PM

I don't think so, Wolfgang. You have indicated you will continue as you have been doing. I will continue as I have been doing also.

Subject: RE: BS: earthquake, related tsunami bring death
From: SINSULL
Date: 01 Feb 05 - 01:55 PM

Over 100,000 are still missing according to a news report today. The Red Cross has reached its goal and will no longer solicit funds specifically for tsunami disaster aid. The tourism industry was destroyed both by damage to resorts and loss of service personnel. There are plans to offer free airfares, overnights, etc to lure tourists back in. The Australians seem to be in the forefront, volunteers are clearing debris and helping rebuild.

Just a friendly reminder - this will not go away for years to come.

Subject: RE: BS: earthquake, related tsunami bring death
From: GUEST,-me-
Date: 06 Feb 05 - 01:51 PM

i am so confused

Subject: RE: BS: earthquake, related tsunami bring death
From: SINSULL
Date: 19 Dec 06 - 11:01 AM

From Relief International:
"Aid is still direly needed in the region even twenty two months after the disaster, with hundreds of thousands people still displaced. Although the latest report from the UN Special Envoy for Tsunami Recovery shows that Indonesia has made progress to reopen or rebuild health care facilities, Sri Lanka lags behind with less than half of its health care facilities reopened or reconstructed.

Direct Relief has furnished over $55.5 million in direct aid to tsunami-affected areas since December 2004, including $44.7 million in medical material aid and $10.7 million in targeted cash grants. Direct Relief is committed to supporting those affected by the tsunami for as long as necessary and ensuring that they have the proper tools and resources to ensure public health in the long term. "