BS: earthquake, related tsunami bring death

Subject: BS: earthquake, related tsunami bring death
From: open mike
Date: 27 Dec 04 - 03:52 AM

http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/ns/news/story.jsp?flok=FF-APO-1104&idq=/ff/story/0001%2F20041226%2F2344747924.htm&sc=1104
thousands are reported dead.
the waves in hawaii were huge last week, as well.

Subject: RE: BS: earthquake, related tsunami bring death
From: Peace
Date: 27 Dec 04 - 05:00 AM

Report I read said the toll was so far about 8,000.

Subject: RE: BS: earthquake, related tsunami bring death
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 27 Dec 04 - 05:26 AM

They're talking 12000 now. I just couldn't believe it when I heard the news on the radio yesterday AM, it has an unreal quality like a disaster movie. Then you see all the newsreel film, and you realise it's true, and the magnitude is just staggering. When I looked at an Australian site it gave the dates of big quakes, and the scary thing is this is the 3rd big one to occur on the date of December 26th. All those poor people, so many of them have enough troubles already, I'm going to find a disaster relief fund site, and send them a cheque.
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: earthquake, related tsunami bring death
From: Mooh
Date: 27 Dec 04 - 05:40 AM

Red Cross was saying to send money, not goods, as it's easier for them. Our prayers to the victims!

Peace, Mooh.

Subject: RE: BS: earthquake, related tsunami bring death
From: gnu
Date: 27 Dec 04 - 05:46 AM

CNN now reporting 20,000.

Subject: RE: BS: earthquake, related tsunami bring death
From: Wolfgang
Date: 27 Dec 04 - 05:53 AM

Some dead are even reported from the east coast of Africa. At least that should speed up the construction of a warning system in the Indian Ocean similar to the one being in effect in the Pacific.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: earthquake, related tsunami bring death
From: wysiwyg
Date: 27 Dec 04 - 07:08 AM

Red Cross prefers cash because:
<> It will already be making payments from reserves,
<> The reserves need to be buttressed fro the next disaster,
<> They try to purchase goods and services as close to the affected area as possible,
<> It aids the local economy along with the individuals who receive the goods and services,
<> It minimizes transport costs.

It hit me yesterday that this is a Global Disaster, like some of the wars came to be known as "World Wars." Not just from the scale, but the number of countries affected directly.

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: earthquake, related tsunami bring death
From: wysiwyg
Date: 27 Dec 04 - 07:11 AM

Also it said on the news that the quake had affected the earth's rotation. And here we all had been worrying a meteor would get us-- and that a meteor would at least give us plenty of warning to get our affairs in order. Surprise!

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: earthquake, related tsunami bring death
From: wysiwyg
Date: 27 Dec 04 - 07:15 AM

Tidal wave toll tops 20,000 in southern Asia
Millions homeless as international aid arrives

The Associated Press
Updated: 6:30 a.m. ET Dec. 27, 2004
COLOMBO, Sri Lanka

Rescuers scoured Asia's coastlines for survivors of devastating tidal waves that obliterated seaside towns in nine countries, killing more than 20,900 people. Aid poured into the region, but morgues and hospitals struggled to cope with the tragedy.

Hundreds of children were buried in mass graves in India as grieving parents looked on.

The death toll began climbing sharply after Sunday morning's 9.0-magnitude quake that struck deep beneath the Indian Ocean off the coast of Indonesia, the most powerful temblor in four decades.

The waves sped away from the epicenter at over 500 mph before crashing into the region's shorelines without warning, sweeping people and fishing villages out to sea. Millions were displaced from their homes and thousands were missing.

Subject: RE: BS: earthquake, related tsunami bring death
From: Peace
Date: 27 Dec 04 - 07:34 AM

General and specific info is available on tsunamis at the following site: Google

Tsunami!: The WWW Tsunami Information Resource

Subject: RE: BS: earthquake, related tsunami bring death
From: wysiwyg
Date: 27 Dec 04 - 07:37 AM

Co-seismic Excitation of Earth Rotational and Gravitational Changes At a Glance

A seismic event, apart from the "shaking" that is the earthquake, leaves behind permanent, step-function-like dislocations in the Earth. This redistribution of mass changes the Earth's inertia tensor; and the Earth's rotation will change according to the conservation of angular momentum. Such is the co-seismic excitation of Earth rotation changes. Similarly this mass redistribution causes the Earth's gravitational field to undergo slight changes expressible in terms of changes in its harmonic Stokes coefficients. The question is whether such excitations are large enough to be of any significance or consequence. The answer is mixed, as highlighted below...

Subject: RE: BS: earthquake, related tsunami bring death
From: Peace
Date: 27 Dec 04 - 07:40 AM

To add to Wolfgang's post:

"In 1964, a large earthquake in Alaska triggered a tsunami that caused damage all the way to California, including several million dollars damage in Port Alberni here in British Columbia. Because the warning system worked, an evacuation was possible and there was no loss of life."

Subject: RE: BS: earthquake, related tsunami bring death
From: GUEST,Mrr at work
Date: 27 Dec 04 - 08:35 AM

Does anybody know if anybody is checking to see if the orang-utans are now extinct? Don't they live only in Sumatra and Borneo?

Subject: RE: BS: earthquake, related tsunami bring death
From: Bill D
Date: 27 Dec 04 - 08:46 AM

yes...they live in the wild only in that part of the world, but the tsunami damage was largely a shoreline incident. Any primate, including orangs and their human cousins living more than a mile inland will have survived.

Subject: RE: BS: earthquake, related tsunami bring death
From: gnu
Date: 27 Dec 04 - 09:24 AM

..."The question is whether such excitations are large enough to be of any significance or consequence." Too bad I didn't stock up on smokes and booze before the blizzard hit and shut the city down. If we're all going to die, well, I'd just as soon have fun shovelling. Come to think of it, no sense in shovelling... there's no where to go.

Subject: RE: BS: earthquake, related tsunami bring death
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Dec 04 - 09:28 AM

A picture of the birth of a tsunami
http://www.angelfire.com/md2/customviolins/zania3.jpg

Subject: RE: BS: earthquake, related tsunami bring death
From: mg
Date: 27 Dec 04 - 10:10 AM

I heard on the earlier versions of the news that the scientists here had one and a half hours notice and if the people had 15 minutes warning they could have gone to higher ground and many would have been saved. They honest to God, and I heard this half asleep but I swear I heard it, that they didn't have names in their rolodexes to call. That has got to be the stupidest thing I have heard in my life. Call the UN. Call the embassies. Put it on the radio and the internet and people could have called people over there. And surely they could have called the weather people in the various countries, the geology departments in the universities etc. I have not heard that particular news bit in recent hours so I bet they are suppressing it. I subscribe to a tsunami warning system at work and get the big quakes even if it doesn't threaten us here (and I am living on a sand spit two blocks from the ocean).

It makes me sad to think of the tragedy and outraged to think of how stupid some people in our government payroll (presumably) can be...what were they thinking? mg

mg

Subject: RE: BS: earthquake, related tsunami bring death
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 27 Dec 04 - 10:54 AM

I saw a TV program a while back concerning a prediction that part of the Canary Islands is going to fall into the sea resulting in a massive tsunami devasting the whole of the USA Eastern seaboard. Is there an early warning system in place for such an eventuality?

Subject: RE: BS: earthquake, related tsunami bring death
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 27 Dec 04 - 11:01 AM

Exactly one year on from a massive earthquake that destroyed the city of Bam in Iran, and killed 30,000 people. Massive amounts of aid were promised by governments round the world. Hardly any of it actually was provided. (£1 billion promised, £17 million paid over.

Maybe the fact that some of the places hit this time are places Western tourists go to might make it more likely the promised help will be supplied. Maybe.

Tsunami kills hundreds of tourists - Reuters - 50 minutes ago
Anxious families across the world are seeking news of loved ones after a tsunami crashed into beaches and bars in some of Asia's most popular tourist resorts, killing more than 20,000 people and stranding many more.

Ten of thousands dead, and what's the headline? "Hundred of tourists"

Subject: RE: BS: earthquake, related tsunami bring death
From: Once Famous
Date: 27 Dec 04 - 11:16 AM

I figured it would only be a matter of time before someone like Mary Garvey blamed our government.

If you want people to be warned who live in a third world country, you first have to get them into at least the middle of the 20th century. Unfortunately this is not the case.

Undoubtably, the U.S. will once again be the leader in relief programs for these types of Acts of God. I will be sure to donate to the cause instead of trying to point a finger at someone.

Subject: RE: BS: earthquake, related tsunami bring death
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 27 Dec 04 - 11:20 AM

Well McGrath I think it was the Dundee Courier that ran the 1912 headline, 'Liner lost at sea, local man feared drowned', or words to that effect.Events like this bring out the best and the worst in headline writers.
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: earthquake, related tsunami bring death
From: Bill D
Date: 27 Dec 04 - 11:47 AM

about the Canary Islands situation : Yeah...it just might happen someday...next week, or in a few thousand years...if the local volcano erupts hard enough. Might be anywhere from a few days warning to 2 hrs warning...*IF* it goes beyond just an eruption. Can you imagine the traffic jams if the warning is sounded? And can you imagine the repercussions if the island doesn't collapse?

The Discovery channel has a whole stock of Armageddon documentries about everything from asteroids to earthquakes...including one running now which includes them all, along with references to Biblical predictions and past disasters. If you like knowing everything that 'might' get you, go on and watch.


Entropy Will Get You, If You Don't Watch Out



In fact, Entropy Will Get You, If You DO Watch Out

Subject: RE: BS: earthquake, related tsunami bring death
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Dec 04 - 12:09 PM

Nearly 40 years ago I was standing on the western shore of Lake Cayuga NY. I watched the shore line recede 60 feet away from me.
Many years later I pieced together that at that moment there had been an earthquake in China that killed countless thousands.

BY THE WAY ...Right after the Sumatra earthquake, Yosemite Park had an earthquake of 3.4


I wonder how Arthur C Clark is doing since he lives in Sri Lanka.

Subject: RE: BS: earthquake, related tsunami bring death
From: mg
Date: 27 Dec 04 - 12:16 PM

I did not blame the government. I blame the idiot persons who did not at least make a few phone calls. And it does not take a whole lot of technology to tell people a big wave is coming and run to higher ground, which apparently was nearby in at least some cases. And to get out of the ocean. How about radio? Do you think none of those countries have radios? Bullhorns? Sirens of some sort? Cell phones? Loud voices? OK, perhaps the "natives" are too technologically underserved to get out of the ocean but there were tourists who probably had their waterproof blackberries with them. mg

Subject: RE: BS: earthquake, related tsunami bring death
From: Once Famous
Date: 27 Dec 04 - 12:25 PM

You are trying to blame somebody/anybody for the unfortunate situation. And yes, I don't believe there is much of any kind of infrastructure in place there that would have made much difference. what you would have had is just wide spread panic.

Subject: RE: BS: earthquake, related tsunami bring death
From: Peace
Date: 27 Dec 04 - 12:28 PM

Don, is it possible you mean thirty years ago? Just askin'.

Subject: RE: BS: earthquake, related tsunami bring death
From: mg
Date: 27 Dec 04 - 12:42 PM

Yes, you would have had panic and traffic jams and people getting trampled. It might have resulted in more deaths but I doubt it. And at least we could say we tried. Some would have made it to higher ground; some might have had time to assemble ropes or collect water and food or blow up an inflatable boat. guess we'll never know. mg

Subject: RE: BS: earthquake, related tsunami bring death
From: Once Famous
Date: 27 Dec 04 - 12:47 PM

I don't know why these types of disasters seem to happen in third world countries, but they just seem to.

Subject: RE: BS: earthquake, related tsunami bring death
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Dec 04 - 12:53 PM

In most cases the geology was inplace before the people. So you could equally ask why do third world countries happen in 'these places'?
Life and death are often unfair. Thoughts to all who are suffering there.

Subject: RE: BS: earthquake, related tsunami bring death
From: Bill D
Date: 27 Dec 04 - 01:04 PM

" third world countries,.."

umm...like Oregon?..(Mt. St. Helens)..California?..(several earthquakes a year) Missouri (largest earthquake in U.S. history, New Madrid)...Alaska? (2nd largest earthquake in this century...with tsunami)....and are Chile & Peru 3rd world? And I doubt Japan would like to be called 3rd world any more.

Subject: RE: BS: earthquake, related tsunami bring death
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 27 Dec 04 - 01:10 PM

23000 now with 30000 missing in the Andaman Islands alone. The figures are unbelievable, and I think it may turn out to be the biggest disaster ever, casualty wise.
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: earthquake, related tsunami bring death
From: wysiwyg
Date: 27 Dec 04 - 01:16 PM

Headline (film at 11):

"Musicians Adopt Internal Strife Strategy to Resolve World's Problems"

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: earthquake, related tsunami bring death
From: open mike
Date: 27 Dec 04 - 01:16 PM

http://www.usgs.gov/
this site has loads of info on geological stuff
earthquakes, etc.
i remember hearing a report on NPR that surfing
enthusiatsa have bee swarming to hawaii to a
memorial sirfiong contest--in memory of a
rescuer who died trying to save some folks
years back...that the waves were like high
rise bldgs coming at you...wonder if there is
an relation to the tsunami?

in 1998, i experienced on of the mose incredible
days of my life. I was on a clipper ship off the
coast of Guadeloupe--there to watch the total solar
eclipse. There is the Caribbean, in the path of
totality was also the volcano on MontSerrat, which
was erupting at the time, which caused seismic
reaction which resulted in massive waves . this
cause whales and porpoises to leap from the water..
what a multi media show....!! plus the total eclipse
was in progress, to add to the mix!

Subject: RE: BS: earthquake, related tsunami bring death
From: Metchosin
Date: 27 Dec 04 - 01:16 PM

brucie, while there was no loss of life in BC, people did die in Oregon and California as a result of the 1964 Tsunami, a number of whom, although warned, went down to the sea side to watch, if I recall correctly. Of course that was before Hollywood started making movies about such disasters.

Setting up a Tsunami monitoring system for the Indian Ocean is a very expensive undertaking, which would require the economic cooperation of a lot of extremely impoverished nations. However, true to human nature, it probably will be undertaken, now that the damage has been done.

Subject: RE: BS: earthquake, related tsunami bring death
From: Ebbie
Date: 27 Dec 04 - 02:14 PM

I believe that the death count from the 1964 Alaska earthquake and tsunami was over a hundred. Not to be compared with this tragedy but it still affected a lot of people.

I was in an Oregon restaurant that night and we all felt anxiety and sorrow for a visiting Alaskan who was glued to the television straining to hear what had happened to his home and family.

Subject: RE: BS: earthquake, related tsunami bring death
From: Megan L
Date: 27 Dec 04 - 02:15 PM

It is easy to make fun of headlines like the "few hundred tourists" If however you were waiting for news of a loved one in one of those places the headline was like a hammer blow.

Subject: RE: BS: earthquake, related tsunami bring death
From: jaze
Date: 27 Dec 04 - 02:21 PM

Just what effect did it have on the earth's rotation?

Subject: RE: BS: earthquake, related tsunami bring death
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 27 Dec 04 - 02:53 PM

Who cares what effect it had on the earths rotation? Let's just either pray or offer best wishes to those who are grieving and mourning the loss of loved ones in the tragedy.

Lord, I lift all those who have suffered in this tragedy to you and ask (as you said ASK) that you bring comfort to all those who have suffered in this tragedy. To the families of those who have perished and all their friends and relations. Help them to come to terms with it all and come to a greater understanding of the forces of good and evil.
I ask this in Jesus name. Amen.

Subject: RE: BS: earthquake, related tsunami bring death
From: Peace
Date: 27 Dec 04 - 03:09 PM

Amen, brother.

I was in Edmonton when the tornados hit. I was in university at the time (1984?) and I went to the Red Cross building to see if I could help: give blood (O neg) or search for people or whatever. They figured that because I was studying education that I'd know something about organization, so they told me to organize their office which had about twenty phones in it.

We received hundreds and hundreds of calls from all over the world. People asking after loved ones and relatives. A lady from England called and wanted to know if her daughter in Toronto would be safe. I assured her she would be. Toronto is over 1500 miles from Edmonton. On a map it seems like the next town over. It had been reported by various news agencies around the world that Edmonton was a disaster--you'd a thought we'd been hit by 10 megaton nuke. But regardless, people were worried and we did what we could to take names and see if we could pass messages along or get people connected. I do not recall how many people died because of the tornados, but it was very few. I know it wasn't few to those who lost family or friends. A disaster of this magnitude--the tsunami--is incomprehensible to most people. It will be weeks before aid gets to where it's needed. That won't be for want of trying. It's just the nature of disasters.

The death toll will continue to rise, and the heartache will continue to increase. People who have been devastated will go into shock at destruction that has been wrought in their usually-secure world, and the efforts of humankind will do its best to save lives, feed and house people, give the comfort we can. That;s part of the responsibility we have as citizens of this planet.

BM

Subject: RE: BS: earthquake, related tsunami bring death
From: Wolfgang
Date: 27 Dec 04 - 03:31 PM

Mary, what you complain to have been missed has actually been done. The USA had the information about a possible tsunami early and did inform the US embassies in several countries hit later. The embassies did try to phone local services responsible for giving warnings. But due to the holiday season, to the (locally) very early time of the day and to the inefficiency of the local institutions no warnings reached the people that could have profited from hearing them.

The blame here rests with the local authorities and with nobody else.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: earthquake, related tsunami bring death
From: mg
Date: 27 Dec 04 - 03:53 PM

It is incompetence on all sides then. Are there no ham operators? Could they not have gotten in touch with Fox news or someone and said get hold of your people there? Put the word out? They should have flooded the airwaves and the internet. If we can't get hold of people, for example, in major tourist attractions, with all night hotels, etc.....we sure as hell had better figure out how to. mg

Subject: RE: BS: earthquake, related tsunami bring death
From: Once Famous
Date: 27 Dec 04 - 03:59 PM

It's your fault Mary Garvey. I blame you for not yelling the news over to them.

Oregon? Mt. St. Helen compared to this Bill D.?

Allow me to show you that this is an apple and this is an orange and that there is quite a bit of difference.

Subject: RE: BS: earthquake, related tsunami bring death
From: open mike
Date: 27 Dec 04 - 05:35 PM

where to go to offer assistance
(if you are not poart of the solution,
you are part of the problem)
Red Cross
when yuo go to the red cross site, you can find a video
of musicians doing a benefit for red cross...
that is something many of us could do...
what a good way to celebrate new years or first night...
i issue a challenge....how many such events can we mudcats
organize??!!
UNICEF

Subject: RE: BS: earthquake, related tsunami bring death
From: open mike
Date: 27 Dec 04 - 05:46 PM

try again for U.N.I.C.E.F.

Subject: RE: BS: earthquake, related tsunami bring death
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 27 Dec 04 - 05:57 PM

The Revenge of Gaia.

Tasmania had a level 8.8 or near abouts quake within last week near Macquarie Island - fortunately not many live there. Also North West coast of Aust got the Tsunami but very few live there so no damage.

Subject: RE: BS: earthquake, related tsunami bring death
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 27 Dec 04 - 06:02 PM

In Pacific countries, I gather from the press coverage, there is in place already a tsunami warning system, because of previous experience. This earthquake happened in the Indian Ocean, where there hasn't been anywhere like so much seismic activity in recent decades as round the Pacific rim.

If there was a similar major disaster like this in Western Europe or the United States, the same would apply, noone is expecting it (apart perhaps from the US West Coast) and noone is ready for it. There appears to have been a failure to have contingency plans in place from the Canary Isles disaster in waiting mentioned earlier. Perhaps this may change as a consequence of this tragedy.
.......................
About that insensitive headline I quoted - I can understand that people with tourist relatives in the area must have been very worried, but there are probably far larger number of people from immigrant backgrounds who have relatives who are resident in those countries, who must have been equally worried.

Subject: RE: BS: earthquake, related tsunami bring death
From: GUEST,Diogenes
Date: 27 Dec 04 - 06:31 PM

"I figured it would only be a matter of time before someone like Mary Garvey blamed our government."

I figured it would only be a matter of time before Martin Gibson blamed the victims for not having sense enough to be American.

Subject: RE: BS: earthquake, related tsunami bring death
From: mg
Date: 27 Dec 04 - 06:55 PM

before a catastrophe hits your shores, check out coconut fluid as a replacement for blood plasma...they have used it in some armies like Indonesia I think....it is supposedly quite similar in composition and can be used for transfusions, should the need arise and coconuts be available (which they probably are in some of these areas affected by the tsunami). mg

Subject: RE: BS: earthquake, related tsunami bring death
From: Shanghaiceltic
Date: 27 Dec 04 - 07:17 PM

Even with a fully functioning warning system to detect quaked and the resulting tsunami would there be enough time to evacuate people?

The Maldives and the Andamen Islands are isolated so getting people off on ships and getting those ships well away from the coastline would be difficult.

With regards densley populated regions like Tamil Nadu and Sri Lanka just how many could be evacuated? Roads would become clogged ad nothing would move.

Yes a few more lives might be saved but the loss of life would still be unbearably high. We live a fragile existance on a fragile planet and nature is always ready to remind us of that.

Subject: RE: BS: earthquake, related tsunami bring death
From: mg
Date: 27 Dec 04 - 08:01 PM

Some people somewhere were able to run to higher ground. You take your chances getting into a car. Trust me, I live on a tsunami road and doubt I would make it out. But some would...I think near seacoasts we need to build some sturdy stone buildings, and high enough that they provide some protection..of course then they act as damns etc...mg