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Subject: BS: Christmas Thread for Christians... From: Bobert Date: 21 Dec 05 - 08:29 PM Well, I went to the other Christmas thread and found it not inviting or filled with Christ... This is a time when those of us who know Christ celebrate His life, His teachings, His love and His sacrifice for all of us... So, to my fellow followers of Christ, I'd just like to say, Merry Christmas... Love to you all, Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Thread for Christians... From: leftydee Date: 21 Dec 05 - 09:28 PM Bobert, Although I'm not a Christian , I'd like to wish you all the blessings of your Holiday. Merry Christmas and a peaceful New Year. Lefty |
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Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Thread for Christians... From: Clinton Hammond Date: 21 Dec 05 - 09:37 PM "those of us who know Christ" How can you know someone who never existed? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Thread for Christians... From: wysiwyg Date: 21 Dec 05 - 09:39 PM There ya go, Bobert, and in record time. Sigh..... You'd need to ask Joe Offer privately if this can be moderated thread like the Veterans Day thread we've had, I think, two years' running. ~Susan |
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Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Thread for Christians... From: Once Famous Date: 21 Dec 05 - 09:47 PM I believe Christ was a fine and good MAN. I'm sure Jesus would be happy that sales are up this year at Best Buy. This thread cannot be for just Christians. Non-Christians are entitled to their opinions on his position in the scheme of things. Have nice HOLIDAY. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Thread for Christians... From: Bobert Date: 21 Dec 05 - 10:11 PM Thank you, Martin, and even tho I intended this thread to be for those of us who are Christain, it's nice to have others stumble in with well wishes... This thread is not about politics but Faith... There's always time for politics but not nearly enough time to profess our Faith... So, yeah, happy holidays to you, Martin... Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Thread for Christians... From: Jerry Rasmussen Date: 21 Dec 05 - 10:14 PM Cool thread, Bobert... why is it not surprising that the majority of posts were already running anti-Christian? Tell ya what, folks... Howzabout letting us Christians have Christmas and you other folks can have the other 364 days. What if we promise not to immediately post critical, sarcastic and judgmental comments if you want to start a thread titled 364 days of not celebrating Jesus Christ? Sounds like a fair deal to me.. And Martin, why constantly scream foul, claiming that people are anti-semetic when you are so obviously anti-Christian? Enjoy your Holy days and good for you for having faith. How about showing equal respect? Jerry Oh yeah, almost forgot: Merry Christmas, Bobert! What a joyous season! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Thread for Christians... From: Seiri Omaar Date: 21 Dec 05 - 10:25 PM Merry Christmas everyone! May your holidays be filled with LACK OF SNOW!!! ... ..... Hey, I live in Ottawa. It's frigid. Gahhhh! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Thread for Christians... From: GUEST,khandu Date: 21 Dec 05 - 10:29 PM Indeed! A Merry & Grand Christmas to you all who celebrate the greatest gift every given. Ken |
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Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Thread for Christians... From: Bobert Date: 21 Dec 05 - 10:38 PM Now this is a Christmas thread... No offense to the other one, but, hey, no flamers yet, just folks wanting to profess their Faith... Nuthin' like it... Nuthin... Peace and love, Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Thread for Christians... From: Bard Judith Date: 21 Dec 05 - 10:38 PM I posted this in the thread entitled 'Spirit of the Season' (the title being the inspiration for the poem, as you can see...) but will take the liberty to post it again for a different audience. :) Hope you all have a blessed Christmas which strengthens your relationships with family and friends, enables you to have a restful vacation from your everyday work, and refreshes your soul! --------------------------------------------- i have the spirit of the season and it's definitely bailey's irish cream especially when combined with hot chocolate coming in from the canadian cold after taking my little girl tobogganing for the first time taking off dripping boots drying over the hotair vent mug cradled in hand watching her open an early christmas present with wide eyes and stopping at the creche to say 'happy birfday baby jesus' so i drink my spiked hot chocolate putting the mortgage worry away thankful for employment and health and family love made the world and keeps it going round ja/05 |
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Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Thread for Christians... From: Biskit Date: 21 Dec 05 - 10:53 PM A Very Merry Christmas! tis' good to remember the reason for the season. God Bless us every-one "Tiny Tim" Peace On Earth, Goodwill to all Mankind. Peace! Through Understanding ~Biskit~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Thread for Christians... From: Jerry Rasmussen Date: 21 Dec 05 - 11:10 PM And I think of the hymn, Blessed Quietness that became almost a signature piece for Lucy Simpson. One of the best Christmas Eve's I ever had was right after a brutal and destructive divorce when I found myself alone on Christmas Eve. My sons were visiting their Mother, so I just went for a drive in the country. It was a cold, clear moonlit night with freshly fallen snow and the lights on the houses were a beautiful backdrop for a starry, starry night. I missed my sons terribly that night, and was still feeling battered and beaten from the divorce, but for me at least, there was Peace On Earth. At least in my little corner. And I never felt so loved. Jerry May all know that peace, whatever your beliefs. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Thread for Christians... From: Bobert Date: 21 Dec 05 - 11:32 PM I've always said that the Lord looks after fools and kids, Jerry... I think, like me, maybe you have a little of the double coverage in ya'... No matter, when the spirit is the Lord lands within ya, whoa, yer eat up!!! I been eat up so many times in my life that I couldn't begin to give testimony but on this Christmas I'd just like to tell ya all a little story... I was 6 years old and I had polio... I was in the Crippled Childrens Hospital in Arlington, Va... The doctoras were tellin me and my folks that I might not survive and if I did I wouldn't walk again.... My mom came to the hospital every night and she read from the Psalms and she read from the New Testament but she also taught me to talk with the Lord and to ask Him for help... I remember other kids dieing... Yet I not only recovered but I walked, played sports and.... But this ain't about me... It's about God's *will* and here we are about to celebrate Jesus's life and I can only say that I owe it all to Him, the Father and the never sleeping Holy Spirit who kicks my butt every day... But beyond the testimony is the strngth of our spirit... And the love that we have for our Lord... A happy birthday, Jesus, my rock, my brother, my Lord... Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Thread for Christians... From: Arkie Date: 21 Dec 05 - 11:47 PM Bobert, Jerry, and all Mudcatters who find joy in this wonderful season, Merry Christmas from the southern tip of the Ozarks. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Thread for Christians... From: Pseudolus Date: 22 Dec 05 - 12:31 AM Bobert, you're a good man, Merry Christmas to you! And a Merry Christmas to everyone who reads this and is willing to accept the greeting! Frank |
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Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Thread for Christians... From: dianavan Date: 22 Dec 05 - 02:18 AM I sincerely hope that the light shines on all of us in this season of darkness. Be thankful for your family and friends. Peace to all. Goodwill to all. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Thread for Christians... From: GUEST,Fossil shortly to be not in NZ Date: 22 Dec 05 - 02:46 AM I'll be spending Christmas Day, all 28-odd hours of it, alone on a series of planes between Wellington, Sydney, Bangkok and London Heathrow, where I arrive at 0530 on Boxing Day. (Sobbb.....!!!) But I hope all the rest of the Catters have a wonderful day, filled with love and blessings. And thanks, as the dolphins say, for all the fish... Fossil |
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Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Thread for Christians... From: Dave Earl Date: 22 Dec 05 - 02:52 AM " Howzabout letting us Christians have Christmas and you other folks can have the other 364 days" You don't want Easter then? Happy Christmas Dave |
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Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Thread for Christians... From: KT Date: 22 Dec 05 - 03:43 AM Here's something I've been pondering lately.....just what is it that has made Christmas sacred for you in the past? By sacred, I don't necessarily mean the birth of Jesus, I mean your own, personal experiences of the season that have held it as mysterious, and sacred for you, personally. One of mine is the hearing and singing of ancient, traditional carols that have been sung by people for centuries. The thought of a cold, dark, winter evening, warmed by voices raised in chorus in the singing of those songs which have been handed down through the ages. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Thread for Christians... From: Georgiansilver Date: 22 Dec 05 - 04:36 AM The thing is Clinton Hammond....we Christians believe we do know Him..and have a close relationship with the 'risen' Lord. Because you don't believe He rose again after death, as the scriptures tell us...you don't believe it is possible to have a relationship with Him. The Bible does say 'seek and you will find'. I found Him in my forties and am so happy to celebrate 'Christ'mas for what I believe are the right reasons. Not knocking anyone who chooses not to believe, we all have choices...and whoever you all are out there....enjoy your Christmas/holiday season in your own chosen way and hope you all have a great New Year. Love and Peace, Mike. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Thread for Christians... From: Jerry Rasmussen Date: 22 Dec 05 - 08:04 AM Hey, Breton cap: You got me there... lol.. I guess the reason I said that is Easter doesn't generate the attacks or excesses on BOTH sides of the aisle. Ironically, while everyone kinda agrees that they wish for Peace on Earth, many folks only wish for peace for those who agree with them, or who are generally "nice" people. And it's the folks with the biggest yaps who get all the attention. On both sides. That familiar phrase, "Peace on earth, good will toward men" is a couplet. "Peace on earth" gets all the press, because it feels good to mouth those words. The "good will toward men" part requires something from us. That's a different story. It's like. "Yeah, of course.. I want peace on earth... but you think I'm going to have good will toward that idiot?" Yeah, that's what it's about.. sincerely having good will toward people who we have a strong dislike for. If "God is love," and we are to love our neighbor as we love ourselves, then every Christian should love George Bush, and wish him well. No wonder Christianity isn't more popular. It's just too hard to practice what we preach. As they say, it's one thing to "talk that talk." It's quite another to "Walk that walk." I have as much trouble with it as anyone. Anyone who thinks that Christianity is an opiate for the masses should try to live what Christ taught. It ain't all pie in the sky... it calls us to live as Christ lived... In another setting, it would be good to have a conversation about how we can sincerely have good will toward men. But, not here on Mudcat. No matter how hard it may be to live, I desire good will toward men. If we could all truly have good will toward men, "Peace on earth" would take of itself. Jerry |
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Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Thread for Christians... From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 22 Dec 05 - 09:04 AM God rest you merry, one and all. Keith. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Thread for Christians... From: *daylia* Date: 22 Dec 05 - 09:26 AM Bobert, thank you so much for posting your childhood experience with Jesus, the Wisest, most Joyful and Loving Healer of All. I owe Him my life too. But He teaches me to pay off that debt by loving and helping others, every day of my life, as best I can. Merry Christmas to all, daylia |
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Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Thread for Christians... From: Wesley S Date: 22 Dec 05 - 09:59 AM As usual there is a sad lack of tolerance here at the Mudcat. For the record I consider myself a Christian. That is due to the fact that I was born in the Midwest { USA } and my parents were Christians. That doesn't make my God superior to whatever God you do or don't worship. I'm not here to convert anyone. If you don't believe in a higher power of some sort - that's fine by me. And no - I don't think you will burn in Hell forever and be poked by little devils with pitchforks. So how about a little tolerance here ? If I want to believe in a higher power of some sort - what's it to ya ? If some of us want to talk about it - what's the harm ? It's like a radio station - when it starts to play something by Madonna or Brittany you can just change the channel and ignore it. I get a little tired of folks who insist on coming to a Christmas thread to tell us that we are misguided - or fools - or mentally ill - or that He never existed. I know I'm supposed to turn the other cheek but what I want to tell folks is to just bugger off. But I won't - so peace on earth - goodwill toward men - and God bless us everyone. No exceptions. Wesley PS - It doesn't matter if Jesus existed or not. The important thing is His teachings still exist. "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" and "Love your neighbor as yourself" are pretty good concepts. Maybe we should start putting them to work here. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Thread for Christians... From: GUEST,bbc at work Date: 22 Dec 05 - 11:30 AM Merry Christmas, folks, & blessings of the New Year to you. May God help us all to see His face in the faces of those around us & open our hearts to love them w/ His love. bbc--alive & practicing my faith--till I get it right ;) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Thread for Christians... From: Jerry Rasmussen Date: 22 Dec 05 - 11:38 AM Hey, Barbara: Remember, practice makes us a little bit better. Have a beautiful Christmas... Jerry |
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Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Thread for Christians... From: *daylia* Date: 22 Dec 05 - 11:40 AM Christians have thousands of other venues and opportunities to celebrate and share their faith with likeminded folk. There's a plethora of Christian discussion forums on the internet, a Christian church on just about every streetcorner in every city, town and hamlet across North America. THere's Christian TV, Christian radio, Christian newspapers, Christian prayer and support groups, Christian bookstores, and on and on and on .... So why bother putting Jesus in the limelight on a forum like this one, where it's obvious that for so many folks any reference to Christianity -- or any other spiritual/religious beliefs -- is considered invasive, offensive, and fair game for attack? It's not hard to see that posting about Jesus here just sets Him, and you, and all Christians up as a target for ridicule and abuse. Why do that to Him, to yourself, or to anyone you supposedly love? Silence can be one of the greatest of all virtues, when it's practiced in humility for the benefit of all. Come to think of it, is Peace possible at all, without Silence? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Thread for Christians... From: TheBigPinkLad Date: 22 Dec 05 - 11:40 AM Amen. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Thread for Christians... From: Wesley S Date: 22 Dec 05 - 11:55 AM So Daylia - If it bothers someone - just don't talk about it ? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Thread for Christians... From: Jerry Rasmussen Date: 22 Dec 05 - 12:02 PM I'd be curious over a year's time how many threads are started in here attacking or belittling Christianity, versus those who are expressing their beliefs in Christ. I'd be very happy to have Christianity and all religious conversations taken completely out of Mudcat if those who are always lambasting Christianity and anyone who believes in God would agree to stop posting threads on religious and faith topics. Catters can't have it both ways... thinking that freeedom of speach allows them to start endless threads attacking people who believe in God, while complaining if someone expresses their own beliefs isn't "logical." I'd personally be very agreeable to not mentioning God again, if the subject didn't keep coming up in threads denouncing believers. Let me know when that happens.. Jerry |
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Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Thread for Christians... From: Amos Date: 22 Dec 05 - 12:07 PM I would suggest for reflection that the winter solstice, which occurs right around now, has been the object of celebration and awe for more thousands of years than there have been Christians about. The USE of this deeply ingrained, cyclical and tribal celebration to also represent a Christian holy day is of fairly late development. It is perhaps unfortunate that during the period of growth of the CHurch of Rome, the celebration was over-ridden with the significance of Christ's Mass, or his birthday, even though there is no evidence his date of birth was in mid-winter. THere is awide-spread pattern of co-option in thehistory of the expansion of the Roman church. For example, throughout Mexico the major temples in various regions were torn down by the Spanish who then erected cathedrals and churches on their sites. In order to ease the cultural transition, the Spaniards would take the ancient temple names and add the name of a Christian saint to them. One example is the village of Santa Maria de Tequipexpan, just off the periferico road outside Guadalajara. Tequipexpan was the site of many ancient pyramids and a temple, and the major marketplace and annual celebration site for the Indian residents for hundreds of miles around. So it was just good PR to keep the name and overlay it with the trappings of the new religion, making it more palatable. The local Indians still gather outside the carthedral there every year to have their own ceremonies, drumming and dancing. SOmetimes this annoys the proest who is trying to conduct mass inside, and he comes out and has an argy-bargy with the befeathered and painted chiefs of the older rituals. I mention all this to simply point out that everyone has their own reasons for celebrating mid-winter, and some of those reasons predate Christianity. Calling it by a Christian name does not change the deep roots of the season, nor should it be considered a proprietary or exclusive occasion, in my opinion. Amos |
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Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Thread for Christians... From: *daylia* Date: 22 Dec 05 - 12:09 PM That's right, Wesley. IMO, anyway. I figure unless someone sincerely and in good heart asks about my personal beliefs and opinions, and I feel it's worth the time and effort to share such things --- why bother? Most people I know would rather listen to anything other than someone else going on and on about their religion or spiritual beliefs. No matter how banal that "anything" might be. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Thread for Christians... From: MMario Date: 22 Dec 05 - 12:21 PM *daylia* The problem with not bringing up Christianity or Christ is that for some of us - Christ cannot be seperated from our views, opinions, thoughts and life. As several priests I have known admonish their congregations - the church doesn't stop at the red door. I *try* to take a low key approach, but sometimes it is hard. Even the best behaved dog occasionally bites back when hit every couple of minutes. And these days, many Christians feel like that abused dog. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Thread for Christians... From: TheBigPinkLad Date: 22 Dec 05 - 12:25 PM And these days, many Christians feel like that abused dog. Buddhists call that karma ;o) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Thread for Christians... From: Wesley S Date: 22 Dec 05 - 12:28 PM Daylia - I don't care for Swedish fiddle music. When I see a thread that is clearly about Swedish fiddle music I have two clear choices : 1 - I can ignore it and not open it. 2 - I can open it up and ridicule everyone in the thread for their taste in music, that they are idiots and savages for listening to it and tell them that - since I don't like Swedish fiddle music - that they shouldn't talk about it. After all - Most people I know would rather listen to anything other than someone else going on and on about Swedish fiddle music. No matter how banal that "anything" might be. Which option should I choose ? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Thread for Christians... From: Jerry Rasmussen Date: 22 Dec 05 - 12:31 PM Wisely put wesley |
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Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Thread for Christians... From: TheBigPinkLad Date: 22 Dec 05 - 12:37 PM Wesley, with all due respect, this is a discussion forum. Bobert knew that when he started this thread. He's well aware that playing Swedish fiddle music annoys some people in this forum. Pre-emptive dismissal of dissent is a well-worn fallacy. In his own vernacular, I guess his chickens done come home to roost. Merry Christmas (and turn that music down!) ;o) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Thread for Christians... From: *daylia* Date: 22 Dec 05 - 12:54 PM I know, MMario. ANd I understand completely what you said too, Jerry. I think it's kinda strange I posted my thoughts about the virtues of Silence here, just after Bobert's wonderful Christmas story gave me the courage to witness for Jesus as Divine Healer myself. Sometimes I really don't understand myself at all ... Truth is, I love Jesus so much I can't bear to think that any ill-timed or ill-placed words of mine might draw more pain or ridicule or abuse His way. (Not that such ridicule or abuse harms Him, mind you, just all the rest of the people involved) It's doubly difficult for me, I think, because no matter what my personal relationship with Jesus might be, I do not label myself as "Christian". I can't, for many excellent personal reasons. My own spiritual understandings and practices have evolved in a way that leave me an outsider in any religious organization or spiritual group. So it's been quite the long, lonely haul. And a much more peaceful one when I have the strength and presence of mind to practice silence as a virtue. Which, as most of you here know, is certainly not always the case! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Thread for Christians... From: Clinton Hammond Date: 22 Dec 05 - 12:56 PM "Howzabout letting us Christians have Christmas and you other folks can have the other 364 days" Sure... when you give back everything your religion stole... oh wait.. that includes X-mas doesn't it... and Easter.... and ever single one of your other celebrations... "we Christians believe we do know Him.." Ya... I have an anut who believes she hears voices from the coffee maker and the toaster oven but if she takes her meds, it's not so bad... The Greatest Scam Ever Told |
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Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Thread for Christians... From: *daylia* Date: 22 Dec 05 - 01:08 PM Clinton, thank you so much for giving me the opportunity to practice tolerance, patience, respect, compassion, and silence here. I want you to know that you, and everyone who thinks and talks like you are playing a unique, vitally important and most appreciated role in my life; certainly a role that none of my spiritually-like-minded (or semi-like-minded) friends or anyone who cared for me personally could play! You are helping me become a stronger, wiser, more loving person. I'll never develop bigger biceps if all I lift is feathers, after all! So please, have yourself a wonderful holiday, all the best to you and yours, and thank you again Clinton! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Thread for Christians... From: Jerry Rasmussen Date: 22 Dec 05 - 01:21 PM Daylia: Truth is, I agree with what you said about limiting discussions about Christ and Christianity. Two things I just about never discuss in the "real world" are religion and politics. Both topics rarely generate a respectful discussion. Most of the time, it's two people taking turns talking. The listening is mostly done by the talker, admiring their own lucidity and impeccable logic. It's pretty funny, when you get right down to it. Like two balloons trying to out-inflate each other. My conversations on religion outside of the Cat are either with other believers, or non-believers who respect the beliefs of others. I've had endless, actual conversations with people who are Atheists, Agnostics, Jews and Muslims where I believe that we came away with a better understanding and appreciation for each other. I dearly love Art Thieme, although we have very little agreement on spiritual matters. One of my sons is an Agnostic, and we've probably had the best, most thoughtful and respectful conversations on faith that I've ever had with anyone. I shared many years of enjoyable conversation with Jewish friends of mine, done with love and respect. I find all those conversations enlightening and mutually strengthening. That never happens in here. If it was possible, I'd love to have a respectful conversation about why people believe they exist, and what they are attempting to do in their lives. That's not going to happen in here. If it did, I think that Agnostics, Atheists and Jews would find much common ground. Atheists don't necessarily disagree with the teachings of Christ, many of which are shared by Buddhists and Jews. After all, Christ was a Jew. I could imagine sitting down with Bill D some evening, talking honestly about our philosphy of life, without rancor or insult. I think that we'd find that we have more in common than might immediately appear, even though Bill doesn't cotton much to faith. No one ever has any positive effect on another person unless they make it clear that they like and respect them. That doesn't happen nearly as much in here as it should. Respecting someone doesn't mean that you can't strongly disagree with them. Jerry |
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Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Thread for Christians... From: *daylia* Date: 22 Dec 05 - 01:21 PM Oops I guess I wasn't really practicing Silence there, huh? arrrgghhhhh ... oh well. I know I can count on Clinton to provide many more such opportunities, asap. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Thread for Christians... From: gnu Date: 22 Dec 05 - 01:54 PM Gosh. Quite the, ah, discussion, born of a simple, kind gesture. And I mean that from BOTH "sides". Whilst not a Christian, allow me, Bobert, to wish you, and all, a very Merry Christmas. Oh... anyone not wishing to be wished a Merry Christmas can simply ignore my wish, wishy-washy as that may seem. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Thread for Christians... From: Clinton Hammond Date: 22 Dec 05 - 02:01 PM Don't you find you muss up you hair with your head that far down in the sand? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Thread for Christians... From: Jerry Rasmussen Date: 22 Dec 05 - 02:02 PM Thanks, and a happy Gnu Year! Jerry |
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Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Thread for Christians... From: skarpi Date: 22 Dec 05 - 02:55 PM Merry christmas , all All the best Skarpi Iceland |
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Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Thread for Christians... From: gnu Date: 22 Dec 05 - 03:07 PM Ah... Clint... if that was directed at me... No. I am bald. What a pitiful attempt. I would have expected better from you. Merry Christmas, whether you like it or not. Peace on you. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Thread for Christians... From: Epona Date: 22 Dec 05 - 03:11 PM Merry Christmas! E |
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Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Thread for Christians... From: Clinton Hammond Date: 22 Dec 05 - 03:19 PM "if that was directed at me... No. I am bald." It was not... and I feel your pain Gnu... getting that way myself Best wishes in this, the season of gorging, to ya! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Thread for Christians... From: wysiwyg Date: 22 Dec 05 - 03:34 PM To be purely informational, all I know is, threads like this make me unbelievably tired, during a season I work the hardest for other people. The result, at least at Mudcat, is that I share less, be myself less, and look elsewhere for replenishment. The pervasive meanness just gets overwhelming. It happens every time there is a Christian holiday coming along. I guess the media saturation gets people going about all their pent-up resentments. I'm tired of people asssuming it's OK to vent that resentment here at people who have never harmed them. And I'm tired of seeing newcomers to Mudcat ignoring veterans' hard-learned advice about keeping the peace and then seeing these same newcomers aiming thinly-veiled preaching at folks, gaining temporary popularity for it, then learning the same lesson we tried to share with them as they too come to see how Mudcat really is, about religious issues. I'm tired of people battering at something important to me and then lecturing me about how I ought to handle their battering. To be purely informational, this season is also the annual reminder of my identical twin's death. Lots of other people have other wounds that bleed at Christmas time.... frankly, it's over the top to have people rub shit into open wounds FOR NO REASON AT ALL. I'm tired of the whole fucking event, by the time people here are done shitting on it in their wondrously creative, various ways. All I see after a round of that is the shit left over-- an ever-increasing pile of it. But if that's how you want to remembered, by all means keep shitting. After all, it's your "right" to use your creativity in that way. Right? Merry Christmas, by the way. ~Susan |
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Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Thread for Christians... From: robomatic Date: 22 Dec 05 - 03:57 PM Shalom Aleichem from Robomatic |
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Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Thread for Christians... From: GUEST,Martin gibson Date: 22 Dec 05 - 05:02 PM jerry, I am not anti-christian. You can believe in the man Jesus all you want. Just realize that there is zero proof that he is the messiah, was birthed without his mother getting pregnant any other way then by the usual schtupping. The whole superstition of it all defies quite a bit of logical thinking. You born again holdy roller types just have to realize that Jews do not feel that they are going to hell for not acknowleging Jesus as savior. And we do not care if you think that we will go hell. We are prepared to wait somewhat longer for the messiah to come. And then won't there be a lot of hand wringing. As far as this day vs. 364 others, as they say on Passover, "why is this night different......, etc." I say, find faith in your hearts every day. Look to the one God himself, not imposters or substitutes to find that faith. Give to charity all of the year, not just at this time which seems to be only a popular seasonal pastime for many. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Thread for Christians... From: Joybell Date: 22 Dec 05 - 05:21 PM Bobert - Just thought I'd drop by. Peace. Happy wishes. Joy. Cheers. Cheers, Joy My name's such fun this time of year. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Thread for Christians... From: rangeroger Date: 22 Dec 05 - 11:13 PM A very Merry Christmas to you Bobert and to you all whether you believe or not. KT brought up remembering things of Christmas' past. One thing which will alwys be held dear in my memory is asking for and being baptised on Christmas day. It was 45 years ago this year. I was 15 and the baptism was done at the chapel of the old Luftwaffe barracks in Berchtesgaden Germany. My belief in the life and teachings of Jesus Christ still hold firm today as they did then. I may not always live that life, but I try to. Merry Christmas rr |
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Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Thread for Christians... From: Peace Date: 22 Dec 05 - 11:19 PM I hope all Christians have a wonderful Christmas. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Thread for Christians... From: Joe Offer Date: 23 Dec 05 - 04:26 AM Martin, there's nobody here who thinks you're going to hell for not acknowleging Jesus as savior. They may think you're going to hell for other reasons, but that's another discussion topic.... Merry Christmas and other appropriate greetings of the season, eh? Have a beer on me. But about Christmas, I have to say that we church musicians are about sick of Christmas by now. I gnerally have a good time as choir practice, but we've had three this week - and I got yelled at yesterday by an overstressed tenor who just about bit my head off. I can hardly wait to go off to Camp Harmony next week and sing secular stuff. -Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Thread for Christians... From: Georgiansilver Date: 23 Dec 05 - 04:32 AM Where living waters flow, let there be love and Peace. Let there be understanding and tolerance. Merry Christmas everyone. Mike. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Thread for Christians... From: freda underhill Date: 23 Dec 05 - 05:19 AM This is an open forum, people can start threads on whatever topic they like. Thanks to people like Bobert and Jerry who have enlarged my view of Christianity, and may you all have a happy Christmas. those who have invaded this thread with your reactive and destructive comments can piss off. freda (obviously not a Christian, from that last comment). |
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Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Thread for Christians... From: freda underhill Date: 23 Dec 05 - 05:20 AM my apologies, I shouldn't have said that. good will to all! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Thread for Christians... From: freda underhill Date: 23 Dec 05 - 05:23 AM (bad hair day.) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Thread for Christians... From: tarheel Date: 23 Dec 05 - 05:42 AM God bless you and a Very Merry Christmas to you too,Bobert! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Thread for Christians... From: GUEST,BazT Date: 23 Dec 05 - 06:15 AM Have a good Christamas folkies, I'm switching this damn thing off now until the new year (yipeee!!!) Best wishes to you and yours. BazT |
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Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Thread for Christians... From: Dave Masterson Date: 23 Dec 05 - 07:11 AM Jerry so rightly says "Respecting someone doesn't mean that you can't strongly disagree with them." Unfortunately many people in contemporary society cannot see the truth of that statement. The thought seems to be "if you disagree with me we cannot be friends". Surely this reaction is the politics of the school playground, and we should have matured beyond that point to a place where we can agree to differ, and maintain relationship, rather than trade insults. Leftydee's post shows the way it can be. Gawd bless yer, Lefty! Clinton claims that Jesus never existed, but there is evidence for an historical Jesus, particularly from Flavius Josephus, the Jewish (not Christian) historian (c37-100AD), who wrote: "About this time there lived Jesus, a wise man, if indeed one ought to call him a man. For he was one who performed surprising deeds and was a teacher of such people as accept the truth gladly. He won over many Jews and many of the Greeks. He was the Messiah. And when, upon the accusation of the principal men among us, Pilate had condemned him to a cross, those who had first come to love him did not cease. He appeared to them spending a third day restored to life, for the prophets of God had foretold these things and a thousand other marvels about him. And the tribe of the Christians, so called after him, has still to this day not disappeared." - Jewish Antiquities, 18.3.3 §63 There is actually more documentary evidence for Jesus Christ (26,000+ documents) than for Julius Caesar (approx. 43 documents), yet few doubt his existence. Thanks Bobert for starting this thread, as it gives me opportunity to wish you, Jerry, Clinton, Leftydee, Breton Cap (see you at Tenterden next year?) et al, Christian and otherwise, a really joyous Christmas and a wonderful new year! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Thread for Christians... From: Jerry Rasmussen Date: 23 Dec 05 - 09:05 AM Reading this thread this morning brings light to my day. It does my heart good to see most Catters who have contributed express good will and appreciation, whether they are Christian or not. And to my mind, that's the way it should be. I said this in another thread and it's worth repeating. How you treat someone should have nothing to do with what they believe, and everything to do with what you do. Jerry |
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Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Thread for Christians... From: GUEST,KA Date: 23 Dec 05 - 09:06 AM Thanks Dave. Your quote comes from "The famous and most Memorable Works of Josephus" who is considered one of the major contributors to literature in that period. Jesus did indeed exist and performed documented miracles as outlined in the Gospels. Many doubt whether he was the Messiah and much of that depends on their belief or non belief in The Bible as being a true record of the times. Jesus still performs miracles today but many of us fail to recognise them. Have a good time over Christmas all. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Thread for Christians... From: Arkie Date: 23 Dec 05 - 10:25 AM Respectful communication among those who disagree helps one to grow spritually and intellectually and is a key ingredient in holding churches, governments, families, and cultural societies together. Branding opposing ideas and ridicule of opposing ideals are polarizing and destructive. I have found it gratifying that so many mudcatters responding to this thread have done so with genuine Good Will. Happy Holiday (Holy Day) and Merry Christmas. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Thread for Christians... From: KT Date: 23 Dec 05 - 01:55 PM Well, I posted this on another thread, but seeing the direction this one has taken at certain points, I'll repeat it here: Merry Christmas, everyone. For those who do not celebrate Christmas, receive the good wishes that come with those words, but don't interpret them as anything but good wishes for you, for that is indeed what they are. And for those of you who celebrate other holidays/holy days, I hope on those days you will extend good wishes/blessings to me in the same spirit. Even if I do not happen to celebrate your holy days, I know that for you they represent something deeply meaningful, and I honor and respect that. If I choose to educate myself about your holy days, I know that I will be richer for it. Warmest wishes for all that is good in this season, KT |
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Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Thread for Christians... From: Amos Date: 23 Dec 05 - 02:08 PM Well, KT, I'm witchoo. I don't know much about the more complex aspects of Christianity, but I do know about goodwill and good wishes to my fellow species type of folks. And that, I wish on all concerned. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Thread for Christians... From: Peace Date: 23 Dec 05 - 02:11 PM I am reminded of the arrogant fellow who's driving 'round and 'round looking for a parking spot. He says, "Lord, please give me a place to park and I promise I will pray to You every night for the rest of my life." Just then a car pulled out thus providing him with a place to park his car and the fellow said, "Forget it, God. I found one." |
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Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Thread for Christians... From: Jerry Rasmussen Date: 23 Dec 05 - 02:47 PM Good post, KT: Contrary to what some people feel about religious threads, I'd welcome a Hannukah thread... even some thoughts on how people celebrate the Winter Solstice, and what it means to them. Those may not be my beliefs, but I'd be interested in learning more about them. My youngest son has had interest in Buddhism for many years now, and he recommended to me some books on the topic (in addition to one that I have, which he read, initially introducing himself to Buddhism.) After years of questioning, he's found a home in the Unitarian Universalist church. If he at some point narrows his belief system into a particular faith, he will be the richer for studying the goodness in many. Jerry |
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Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Thread for Christians... From: CarolC Date: 23 Dec 05 - 03:33 PM When these threads were started for the purpose of wishing people well on some other important holidays (holy days), for the most part, they were taken in the spirit in which they were intended, and were treated with respect. I thought, at the time, that it was a very refreshing thing to see. Although I am not a Christian myself, I think I'll treat this one with the same spirit of respect that was shown to these others... http://www.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=39065&messages http://www.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=39065&messages |
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Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Thread for Christians... From: GUEST,KT Date: 23 Dec 05 - 03:37 PM Yes, Jerry. All faiths have so much good in them. I'd be honored to have friends of other faiths invite me to a deeper understanding of theirs, either by way of explanation or an invitation to join in the celebration. We have much to celebrate/commemorate and our diversity makes us richer. I say, let's honor that in each other, take what we can from one another's practice and allow ourselves to grow in wisdom and tolerance in the process. KT |
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Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Thread for Christians... From: alanabit Date: 23 Dec 05 - 04:13 PM I believe a lot of things which Christians do, without being qualified to call myself one. I look forward to Christmas very much though. I am in contact with friends and family, who are in different countries. Some of them I have not seen for many years. It gives me a chance to have a special few days with my own family. It also gives me the chance to recall the kindness of my parents, friends and even strangers in other years. This year I have the chance to also say Merry Christmas to all those Mudcatters, whose kindness and wisdom helped to make 2005 a memorable year for me. Thanks very much folks and Merry Christmas and a Happy, Healthy New Year to you all. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Thread for Christians... From: Irish sergeant Date: 23 Dec 05 - 04:13 PM Bobert and All; I don't know that the other thread I was on was anti-Christian or Anti-Christmas. I too am a Christian although not religious. I do wish all a Merry Christmas. The important message is not about the Birth of Jesus but rather his death and resurrection resulting in his assuming our sins.That was his present to us, the rest is all trappings. God's miraculous gift is forgiveness and love with no strings and no bias.that be my wish to all this Christmas. Neil |
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Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Thread for Christians... From: ranger1 Date: 23 Dec 05 - 07:36 PM Merry Christmas, from a respectful non-believer. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Thread for Christians... From: Jerry Rasmussen Date: 23 Dec 05 - 07:38 PM Thanks, Ranger... I appreciate it... and all good things on you, too.. Jerry |
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Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Thread for Christians... From: kendall Date: 23 Dec 05 - 07:52 PM Feed a cold, starve a fever, Argue with no true believer. Merry Christmas to all. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Thread for Christians... From: Jimmy C Date: 23 Dec 05 - 09:45 PM Bobert, A sincere Happy, Safe and Holy Christmas to you and your's. Peace on Earth and Goodwill towards men" How can anyone find fault with that ?. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Thread for Christians... From: Bobert Date: 23 Dec 05 - 09:49 PM Where's Teribus, Jimmy C??? Awwww, just a little Christmans humor... Can't find any fault with that, my friend... Thanks, and a Happiest of Holy-Days to you as well... Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Thread for Christians... From: Hrothgar Date: 24 Dec 05 - 04:19 AM A safe, happy, and peaceful Christmas to you all. Only four hours 45 minutes away for us! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Thread for Christians... From: Jerry Rasmussen Date: 24 Dec 05 - 08:40 AM I was thinking about this thread last night. What started out as a Christmas thread for Christians has evolved into something much better. It's not solely about Christmas, although that is what many of us are celebrating. And it's definitely turned out to be a thread for anyone who wanders in to express good wishes for this season. I was thinking about a fire out in the woods on a cold winter's night. At first, there were just a few sitting around the fire. A couple of people came by and even tried to put out the fire. They thought that it wasn't for them. But as more people came by, warm greetings and good wishes were exchanged, and the circle grew. It turned out that there weren't any restrictions about who could come and warm themselves by the fire, and at least for awhile there was Peace On Mudcat and Good Will toward men and women. I've had a wonderful time reading this thread, and it's made my Christmas a little special. It is beautiful just to sit together for awhile without rancor or judgment and truly wish each other well. And at least for a moment, there are no distinctions here. Just friends enjoying each other.. Jerry |
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Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Thread for Christians... From: Joe Offer Date: 24 Dec 05 - 03:10 PM I have to say that I'm a bit bothered when people wish me "Happy Holidays" - it seems to me to be a deliberate attempt to remove the word "Christmas" from our culture because some might consider it offensive. I was at Target the other day, and the checker wished me "Happy Holidays." I responded, "Merry Christmas!" - not intending to make an issue, but just because that's what I say during the week before Christmas - and the check said "Merry Christmas!" back at me. I said, "So, are you allowed to say that?" The checker said she could say "Merry Christmas" only if the customer said it first. I was at Macy's last night and the checker said, "Have a good evening." It didn't push Christmas on people who might not want it - but yet it didn't seem like a deliberate attempt to secularize the holiday. I think I like the Macy's approach better. And their decorations were far more tasteful. -Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Thread for Christians... From: Peace Date: 24 Dec 05 - 03:20 PM I wish people a Merry Christmas. If they don't like it, tough. So far, no one hasn't liked it. One fellow said that he didn't celebrate Christmas. I replied, "Uh huh, and . . . ". In the words of ol' Ricky Nelson, "Ya can't please everyone, so yer gonna have to please yourself." Merry Christmas, all. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Thread for Christians... From: Bill D Date: 24 Dec 05 - 03:25 PM *enters thread, wondering what might be appropriate*...hmmmm a happy, merry, joyous, pleasant, peaceful, wonderful Christmas, Hanukkah, Kwanzaa, solstice Holiday Season to all... believe or not, in whatever customs suit you...be thoughtful of others and kind to yourself by thinking good thoughts which lead to more of the same next year! *goes off mumbling,"there, that oughta do it.." |
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Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Thread for Christians... From: Peace Date: 24 Dec 05 - 03:36 PM Reminds me of live TV days before the five-second delay. A fellow who did a kids' show was reported to have said (when he thought he was off air), "There, that oughta hold the little buggers." |
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Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Thread for Christians... From: Jerry Rasmussen Date: 24 Dec 05 - 03:39 PM Thanks, Bill D. And I wish you a Merry... and a wonderful, joyful New Year.. Why not sit by the fire for a moment? Jerry |
