Info/Opinions RE: Martin Guitars

Subject: RE: Info/Opinions RE: Martin Guitars
From: bonkrz (inactive)
Date: 06 Apr 99 - 04:57 PM

Whew... long thread.

Some Martin ramblings....

I have a '34 Martin Tenor that is a sweet thing. Needs to be played more though. I just can't get used to that CGDA tuning.

I recently did my 'search' for a nice acoustic. Tried the Martins, everything up to the Eric Clapton model and the only ones that i REALLY liked were the HD-28 and the Clapton. Some of the lower end ones are nice and I think i'd choose the D-3R over similarly priced Taylors. But, i wound up with a Taylor 710LTD.

My uncle took his '63 D-28 in for repairs. didn't have proof of ownership. but he is the original owner. they did about $1500 in repairs for nothing. were very nice. except when he wanted to get a gig bag, almost wouldn't let him take it home... It's a beautiful guitar but he insists on putting those heavy strings on it.

I find that Martins have too fat a neck for my taste. Which is why i like Taylors. OTOH I've heard complaints that the thin necked Taylors tend to warp.

I live about 20 minutes from the factory and did the tour a few weeks ago. It's an assembly line. the better model guitars get more attention, but the same people who work on the D-45's work on the DM's.

I think they got A LOT of flack for their quality dip in the 70's. Their good line is still good, but i think their lower line is hit or miss.

Like any company, you hear good stories and horror stories. At some point i'd like to have a really nice Martin, but for now, i'll stick to my Taylor.

Ta Ta Tony

Subject: RE: Info/Opinions RE: Martin Guitars
From: catspaw49
Date: 06 Apr 99 - 07:03 AM

Subject: RE: Info/Opinions RE: Martin Guitars
From: Roger in Baltimore
Date: 28 Mar 99 - 07:29 PM

Sandy from Lewes, Delaware,

You might want to check out the current issue of Acoustic Guitar. They reveiw the best steel string for $500 dollars. I have not read it yet, but they do a fair job of helping you tell what to look for and describing the construction of the guitars.

Enjoy!

Roger in Baltimore

Subject: RE: Info/Opinions RE: Martin Guitars
From: BK
Date: 27 Mar 99 - 01:20 AM

Catspaw -

Too busy to chk this for a few days.. but it tempts me to wonder about a "what do 'catters eat?" thread. Not precisely/tightly related to music.. sort of.. but.. it IS, for some of us, not entirely unrelated to our overall sense of esthetics.. For sweetie 'n me, we surely find food an esthetic experience, as we do music!

Now; if you do live w/in driving distance of Wheaton triangle, go a few doors (abt 4-5 or so, near the bicycle shop) east of the University/Georgia intersection, on the south side of the street. There's a little Thai place there which is excellent, & also has those to-die-for fish cakes that not all the Thai places bother to carry. Their "Floating Market Soup" (often on lunch special) is also very-extremely-outrageously-definitely to-die-for (if ya like it a little spicey).

There's also a great little thai place on Georgia near there (east side of street), vietnamese places in the triangle, as well as a very decent japanese-korean place in the middle of the triangle. other places in the neighborhood too. Like a great little chinese bakery. Their sweets are among my absolute favorites; often a little understated. Then there's the little Jamaican grocery where they sell Dragon stout, maybe my favorite in the world (sorry, Guiness lovers, but that's how it is.. [NOI])

Now I'm really hungry again, tho still full of fajita's, tortillas & rice 'n beans.. Ah, so much food, so little time..

Cheers, BK

Subject: RE: Info/Opinions RE: Martin Guitars
From: catspaw
Date: 22 Mar 99 - 10:30 PM

Thai restaurants? Thai restaurants? Did you say really good Thai restaurants? Bill D. and Ferrara...expect houseguests.....FAT BOY WILL BE THERE!!!

catspaw

Subject: RE: Info/Opinions RE: Martin Guitars
From: BK
Date: 22 Mar 99 - 10:19 PM

Sandy: my wife just came home & while she doesn't remember where our box of maps is either, we both think Wheaton triangle is bounded by Georgia, University, & Vier's Mill, not New Hampshire (or Connecticut? don't think so). Problem is, I can drive there almost blindfolded, from almost anywhere in the Metroplex - or even parts of Pennsylvania. I don't need to know the street names, I can be on auto-pilot..

I was just was pickin' the Baby Taylor I got in Wheaton this last autumn, sweet little not-quite-toy.. Can't wait to come back for another visit..

'N while I'm thinkin' of it.. some great Vietnamese, Thai, etc., restraunts in that area. Makes me hungry to contemplate..

Again, Good Luck

Cheers, BK

Subject: RE: Info/Opinions RE: Martin Guitars
From: BK
Date: 22 Mar 99 - 09:02 PM

Sandy: If you live in Deleware, hike yoursel of over to the DC metroplex, at least to "metropollitan Maryland" (ie, Maryland immediatly adjacent to DC, esp north toward Montgommery county); get a couple of GOOD maps, Such as the book map of Montgommery county, steal or borrow a yellow pages, & devote a some Saturdays to looking at the bigger music stores in the DC-Balmer area. At least get yourself over to Wheaton triangle, park in the middle (or wherever, but not over in the subway parking building; even less safe than the rest of DC) & walk around. The Wheaton triangle area is loosely defined by the intersection of 3 streets; Georgia, University & New Hampshire (if my terrible memory for names doesn't goof me up; look on the Mont. Co. map; it'll make sense). I bought a small Taylor there this past year for a fantastic price.

At any rate, don't just make this important decision w/out trying to gather more data. Also: I'd say don't have the attitiude that this'll be your last & only good guitar; chances are it won't be/can't be.. I'd advise an open mind & the notion that this'll be a chance to get a very decent acoustic, which may well open a future door to other hi class acoustic guitars.. all in good time. If your current limit of $600 is what you're stuck with, it could be a dificult choice, but it can be mannaged.

Good luck, 'n Cheers, BK

Subject: RE: Info/Opinions RE: Martin Guitars
From: Sandy from Lewes,DE
Date: 20 Mar 99 - 09:10 PM

Pete, your comments about the D-15 are encouraging. I picked up one the other day in a shop with Guilds, Martins, Taylors, Gibsons, and Takamines. It was the cheapest of the bunch at $600, and it sounded the best to me.

I have been fooling around with the celtic fingerpicking sound (Al Petteway, John Sherman, DADGAD tuning) and am ready to invest in a decent acoustic, but $600 is my limit. I enjoyed the bass response and the nice "ring" of the guitar. My problem is that I don't want to make a mistake. This is likely to be the one and only acoustic for me. Am I being impatient or should I make the jump. All this talk of Seagull and others has me wondering if I should continue the search. Unfortunely, I don't live in an acoustic guitar area, although I'm about 2 hours from Phila and Baltimore. I'm also not opposed to a used guitar. I've had good luck with electics. Thoughts are much appreciated.

Thank Cat for the tip on this thread.

Sandy

Subject: RE: Info/Opinions RE: Martin Guitars
From: catspaw49
Date: 15 Mar 99 - 07:12 PM

Subject: RE: Info/Opinions RE: Martin Guitars
From: Georgia Jones
Date: 10 Mar 99 - 02:03 AM

I have a 1957 Martin 018. My husband bought it for me that year. I play it for my own pleasure. I'm not a professional. I love that guitar and so does everyone who's ever tried it. It has easy action and is small enough for me, yet it has great sound. I also have a d28 that I bought at the martin factory in Nazareth,Pa. in 1985. It is a research and developement guitar. I was told they only made two like it. It has a black graphite front. Since they decided not to make any more of that kind they didn't even finish it. The wood is sealed but not finished. It does not have bindings. It's nothing to look at but it has a great sound. It's large and I can only play it while standing as I am short. It is much heavier than the 018. I wouldn't part with either of my Martins.

Subject: RE: Info/Opinions RE: Martin Guitars
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 09 Mar 99 - 06:29 PM

I'd drive 500 miles to have Bruce Dowd fix my instruments! Since I now live 5 minutes away from him, I'll not have to test my loyalty in the near future.

Subject: RE: Info/Opinions RE: Martin Guitars
From: Willie-O
Date: 09 Mar 99 - 04:06 PM

I'm baffled, I was sure I had posted to this thread before. I've owned a single-ought 0-18 for nearly twenty years, a 1973 model which was incorrectly represented to me as a '77 that had been in the store for a couple of years. I think it's been back to the factory for a warranty reset once--no great shakes of a job, but they made no fuss about doing it. Quite a few competent repairpeople had a go at fixing its problematic neck and intonation, there should be a new thread regarding "who is the repairperson you would drive 200 miles to entrust your guitar to?"; in my case it's Rufus Stewart, but I believe he's in Vancouver now. He sorted it out and reset the saddle.

Art, you must have stored up an unbelievable amount of good karma. SMASHED your 000-18 and then won a highly collectable D-76 on a $3 ticket? Sheesh.

Rick F mentioned Bruce Dowd as the repair guru in Toronto; I've had good work done by him on my 1928 Gibson LO in the distant past. Martins are overpriced, except for the new economy models; this wasn't always the case or most of us wouldn't own one today. Mine cost $515 Cdn in 1980.

The smaller O size models, even old ones in good shape, are affordable, compared to the vintage dreads anyway. See Mandolin Brothers vintage acoustic guitar listings for entertaining descriptions of instruments that you might consider swapping your house for.

Someday I'm gonna own a nice dreadnaught. Don't know that it'll be a Martin though.

Bill

Subject: RE: Info/Opinions RE: Martin Guitars
From: catspaw49
Date: 09 Mar 99 - 03:34 PM

Again, I truly believe that Martin is into treating us like the old days. The repair dept. still isn't any great shakes, but they want the customer satisfied. Glad you got a new axe!!!

Also brings up last year's dealer "crackdown" where Martin made some commitments to their dealers, but also asked strong commitment in return. As I read this thread, it's obvious that for whatever reasons, an awful lot of us are "pulling" for Martin. It's kinda' funny really...is it just pride, memories, or what?

catspaw

Subject: RE: Info/Opinions RE: Martin Guitars
From: Einnor (inactive)
Date: 09 Mar 99 - 02:24 PM

I have to break my silence on this most sensitive issue. I purchased a D-28 last year from a dealerin Penn. I didn't know it at the time he sold me aruined guitar. Dried it to the point the bridge sank or sunk whatever, I was taken advantage of by an authorized dealer. I took the guitar to the factory in Nazereth. They looked after me to the point of bringing a tear to your eye. They replaced the guitar with one that is sounding better all the time. Other people who I play with on occasion tell me I must have gotten a good one ,so if I have any opinion of Martin Guitars, it's a good one.

Subject: RE: Info/Opinions RE: Martin Guitars
From: j0_77
Date: 09 Mar 99 - 12:43 PM

My 10 cents - I never found a Martin I did not just love :) But I could never afford to buy one :( Sooo there. Notice sometimes newbies with Martins drown me out of circles and that is irratating especialy when I know the are just givin me a hard time :) I have big paws so I love the wider fretboards but (comments welcome) have some difficulty adjusting my right hand picking to the string spacing. I prefer a smaller Guitar with a wide neck and a sweet ring so generally prefer Mahogany. Also love to mess around and cut up as I play (Started playing as a lil kid)Mostly I havent the foggiest idea what I am doing so I can never xplain it when I am asked. It is kinda like bowing a fiddle - I do it but dont know an up from a down :)

Subject: RE: Info/Opinions RE: Martin Guitars
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 09 Mar 99 - 12:04 PM

Bk, Absolutely. If back in my wandering days, someone had held a gun to my head and ordered "invest in something, you hippie freak!" It would have been Martin Guitars!

Subject: RE: Info/Opinions RE: Martin Guitars
From: BK
Date: 09 Mar 99 - 12:18 AM

Again I have to say many points on this thread resonate well w/me, but I really like one of Rick's comments abt it being like having a favorite uncle caught at the brothel. I remember my first visits to the factory; how friendly & informal they were. I guess that had to go, & in truth, they were still not all that overly formal last time I was there. Just not the really easy going informality of the old days.

But, more to the point, I trusted them, thought of them as unofficial family, and trusted their work in the old days. Later, after they had already worked on both my guitars a couple times over the years, they suddenly got stuffy & suggested I wasn't the original owner, one guy openly sneered. I only found a few old reciepts (who saves that old junk?) & this evidently was - minimally - acceptable; note: THEY lost THEIR old records.. not me. Anyway after this, they screwed up my bridge several times, knocked the binding off one guitar & never knew it. I found it when I inspected the guitar when I picked it up. Took more time..

In the old days, when I lived overseas, I would brag, especially to my German pals, abt the impeccable quality of Martin workmanship. This workmanship was something American in which I could take confidant pride. And that definitely included not only new instruments but repairs. I guess I felt personally invested in Martin, & later felt betrayed, like a jilted lover. (CORNY! but not a bad analogy, I CARED.) Probably explains why I feel so pissed...

I'm glad to hear that Chris cares.. I wish him luck, & only hope his employees care as much as he does. An old & justly famous family reputation is a tradition which SHOULD be cherished, & a source of pride & motivation for excellence.

Cheers, BK

Subject: RE: Info/Opinions RE: Martin Guitars
From: Mudjack
Date: 08 Mar 99 - 02:33 PM

Mudders, I've owned several over the years. They have great resale value but frankly are over priced for what you get. You can purchase most any hand built guitar for less money and have a lifetime keeper.Martins have a terrific reputation but by far not the best guitar for the money. I was new at what a guitar should sound like, my first Martin 000-18 barked like an old dog.My D-28 sounded great and sold it for more than I paid. I had a D-35-s,good sound but sold it when I needed money for a new roof.My sons 00-18 was the best sounding of all. I sold and let go more Martins than anyone should admit to. Reason being I had a 1971 Lo Prinzi that simply out performed any of the Martins. ...Jack....

Subject: RE: Info/Opinions RE: Martin Guitars
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 08 Mar 99 - 02:14 PM

How right you are "cat", I guess I see Martin like some favourite uncle who got caught in a raid on a brothel. I'm a trifle embarrassed at his predicament, but I remember all the good memories. Ed.note: This is the stupidist analogy you have ever come up with!

When I first visited the factory in Nazereth PA. in 1968 I expected to see little old German-American craftsmen hunched over benches using old world methods and secret varnishes. One look at the giant spray booth cured me of that. That's when I realised that the folk boom meant "BOOM". I did get some nifty souvenirs though..Coffee cup, bumper sticker and ash tray. (whoo, THAT shows you how long ago it was)

I'm fortunate to be friends with Grit Laskin, and visiting his shop is a wonderful experience. Although everything is state of the art, Grit still works alone and creates amazing instruments. Many go direct from his shop into museums around the world. (perhaps because of his reputation as a creative inlayist as well as luthier) He is THE rennaisance man of his time. Singer, Songwriter, Novelist, Photographer, luthier, comedian (2nd funniest guy I know) and during a social visit here, he fixed all of our door-knobs with his Swiss Army knife!

Subject: RE: Info/Opinions RE: Martin Guitars
From: CarlZen
Date: 08 Mar 99 - 12:50 AM

Maybe this will start anew thread based on the song "Thank You Mr. Martin" (?) which Norman Blake sings. Not only a lyric search, but maybe someone knows the story behind the song.

Subject: RE: Info/Opinions RE: Martin Guitars
From: catspaw49
Date: 07 Mar 99 - 11:39 PM

Dear BK...I think you'll find that Mr. Fielding always makes good points, although I think he is wrong on something in his last post. I reread this thread and don't see where Rick was ever too tough on Martin. I'm not sure that they have had a great repair department in years, although they have developed some techniques which others have enhanced and are now in popular usage. Their fall from grace was the result of corporate smugness. Their reascension toward the top has been through corporate aggression. Credit must be given to Chris IV for steering this course...and the first move he made was to bring back the quality and sound that had made Martin what it was. As the saying goes, "You gotta' dance with who brung yuh." They have made plenty of smart moves since, including the re-issuing of classic models and the "built in collectability" of the signature/limited run Artist series. And they are doing quite well both in sales and acceptance of their "road" series guitars and those using alternate woods.

Maybe you should write to C-IV to complain about the repairs and guarantee. Can't hurt!!! Maybe we ought to send him this thread. I agree with both you and Rick that we buy guitars, not warranties. I don't recall ever sending in a warranty card in my life...on anything. I always figure the hassle isn't worth the time and I can find someone else to fix whatever it is better. I've used new car warranties, but never bought an extended one. And when it came to guitars, many of mine were bought used so it never occured to me that a guarantee was important to others. But you've got a good point on them Taylors...that thread will be coming soon, expect to hear from you!!!

catspaw

Subject: RE: Info/Opinions RE: Martin Guitars
From: BK
Date: 07 Mar 99 - 10:40 PM

Rick; good points.. Buy for the Guitar, not the guarantee.

Cheers, BK

Subject: RE: Info/Opinions RE: Martin Guitars
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 05 Mar 99 - 12:45 PM

Hmmmm...I think I was a bit too harsh about the good folks at Martin. They build fine instruments. (over the last 8 or 9 years) Like any other instrument company who got caught with their pants down during the great "folk boom" of the 60s and 70s Martin couldn't keep up with the orders or the quality. I've read articles where Martin execs (and some others) said that this was all a myth and that their guitars never dropped in quality, but from an educated player's point of view it became obvious that consistancy wasn't there for about 15 years. Had it been, then companies like Taylor, Larivee, Lowden, and especially Yamaha, and Takamine, would not have become successful so quickly. Even Ovation reaped benefits from Martin's fall from grace. Today however, forced, because of the amazing quality of the competition (Collings, Santa Cruz, and the brilliant independents like Grit Laskin) Martin is back with a vengeance.

As to warranty repairs..NONE of the guitar companies, OR computer companies OR auto companies want to do what is essentially free work. They do it grudgingly and probably badly. Gibson's solution to having to do free repairs on their guitars in the 60s, was to start building them like tanks, and so that's what they (mostly) sounded like. My final thought on this is Never buy a guitar using the warranty as a major selling point. Buy what sounds good, feels good, and has been played by a friend with MORE experience than you. Next ask a few questions and find a repair person who's number will go up on the fridge next to the plumber, furnace guy, doctor and fire dept.

Subject: RE: Info/Opinions RE: Martin Guitars
From: BK
Date: 04 Mar 99 - 11:21 PM

Peter: Martin reluctantly owned up to me being the real owner of both my older models & did "guarantee" work on them, but it's been a mixed bag over the years; the last work they did is definitely not up to the standard. I was going to finally give the latest "CF" clone (think he's the 4th?) a piece of my mind - big time! - & list the many screw-ups his lads did; maybe send him a picture of the glue (or laquer?) piling up in front of the bridge after they finally replaced it. (The guys at the bluegrass jam think it's appalling; it certainly has not been good advertising for them to do such shoddy work..)

But my sweet midwestern wife brow-beat me out of it, at least partly on the reasoning that I will continue to own these guitars a long time (hopefully!) & may need their good will -ie, don't piss off the workers. Maybe CF would want to know - maybe he wouldn't.. ??? Don't know how to call it. (Could he do anything, any-way??) But I do know that a little over 2 years back I bought a new Martin from Rockin' Robin in houston. I have not yet sent in the ownership papers. (My sister died, we moved, they were lost in the clutter for a while, etc, etc..) Now, clearly I feel ambivalent.

Anyway, for all my other guitars except the "lifetime guaranteed" Martins, I have always done my own work; I'm a a sort of luthiery hobiest & sometimes work on my friend's instruments. Excepting the so-called guarantee, I would NEVER even consider sending anything to the Martin factory any more. Years ago they were great. I'm rather doubtful if they care any more, maybe they are too corporate now, & we who buy & play are just a means to an end. the stock market is what counts?

I do get a clear feeling that if you are a well known star, you'll be treated well.

Anyway: if they've shafted you out of your guarantee, at least they might've inadvertantly done you a sort of backwards favor. As has been mentioned by others, take your guitar to someone motivated to do good work. And next time, buy something else, like a Taylor.

Cheers & Good Luck, BK

Subject: RE: Info/Opinions RE: Martin Guitars
From: catspaw49
Date: 04 Mar 99 - 05:13 PM

Sorry Peter...as I typed all that you were already back. But a quick thought about where you live...send a message to Art Thieme for his opinion! He's damn near next door to you, and lots of experience in that area...to say the least.

catspaw

Subject: RE: Info/Opinions RE: Martin Guitars
From: catspaw49
Date: 04 Mar 99 - 05:05 PM

Peter....Not knowing where you live, I can't help much except to add a bit to what Rick said. I can't imagine what else you have wrong that would warrant that much in repair costs unless your 21 came into a serious disagreement with a Kenworth. And let me guess, that's plus shipping and whatever else they "find needing immediate attention."

First, there is a Luthiers Guild that can provide names and numbers close to you. You have an excellent source right here in Mudcat. Lots of guitar pickers who have dealt with repairmen for years. In my little part of the world there are 5 guys I would trust implicitly within a 50 mile radius. Also, some of the supply houses have in-house people that are excellent. True too, there are a number of vintage dealers all over the country that use specific people who are generally top notch. Here's a DON'T for you. DON'T ask your local non-vintage type dealer. They may have someone, but it's not their thing and they will tell you that you get a better job from Martin and the price is worth it and that Rick is wrong...He's NOT!!! I have a friend down in Georgia that sent his D-28 back against advice and wound up with a very "woody" instrument. And Martin whacked him for $835.00 for God knows what!!! That was payable in advance I might add.

Post your general area and someone can help, or send me an e-mail or message and I'll provide you with the numbers and places I mentioned. The 21's were a neat series, don't let yours be a casualty.

catspaw

Subject: RE: Info/Opinions RE: Martin Guitars
From: Peter Fisher
Date: 04 Mar 99 - 05:01 PM

Thanks for the advice. If Bob George is still repairing Martins in the Kansas City area, I will take it to him the next time I'm down that way. He fits your description (or at least he did 20 years ago.) I live in Iowa City, so if anyone has other suggestions from Minneapolis to Chicago to Missouri, let me know.

Subject: RE: Info/Opinions RE: Martin Guitars
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 04 Mar 99 - 03:51 PM

Peter, forget the legalities, or Martin's moral responsibilities and any related stuff. If you want to hear real life guitar horror stories, talk to folks who have sent their instruments back to Martin and have waited months and in a couple of cases YEARS for a totally sub-standard repair. I know that some people will say they were treated great but I have seen first-hand well over 20 REALLY bad jobs. Do you live in an area with a qualified repair person? Someone who MUST treat folks right in order to stay in business. If you were in Toronto I'd send you to Bruce Dowd who does superb work, charges reasonable prices (a neck re-set is nowhere near 750 bucks) and gets the instrument back to you quickly. Here's a suggestion. If you or a friend or a relative is going to visit a fairly sizable town in the next while, check (perhaps through the Mudcat) if there's a respected repairperson in the area and get your guitar to that person. Even if it takes a week or two, you'll be much better off than sending it to a factory (warranty or not.) Good luck.

Subject: RE: Info/Opinions RE: Martin Guitars
From: Peter Fisher
Date: 04 Mar 99 - 12:14 PM

I'd be interested to know if anyone has any advice on getting warranty work done on a Martin. I bought a 1969 D-21 new and was assured that it had a lifetime warranty from Martin, that my ownership of the guitar would be registered with Martin, just bring it to any authorized Martin repair shop, etc. So 30 years later I discover that my warranty is good only if I have the original sales receipt, so the $750 in repairs that it needs (neck reset etc.) has to come out of my pocket. Hell, I was 23 at the time, I've moved 17 times since then, of course I don't have the receipt. The guitar was never registered to anyone (you can find this out by calling Martin) which means either the dealer or Martin screwed up. The peculiar thing is that the folks at Martin tell me that a letter from the firm welcoming me as a new Martin owner (they did this in the early 70s) would be sufficient to establish ownership. This means that Martin is admitting that there are folks that Martin knew had just bought a new Martin, because they sent them a letter, but their guitar did not get registered to them. This conveniently saves them a lot of money now. And apparently Martin is no longer accepting notarized affidavits or the like either. Fact is, I don't have $750 to spend on my guitar. Makes me want to cry.

Subject: RE: Info/Opinions RE: Martin Guitars
From: catspaw49
Date: 04 Mar 99 - 11:56 AM

Dear Rick...You need to keep that kind of thing a bit on the quiet side. Nothing to fear from 'Paw and Cletus, but that's exactly what the boys on the "MUTE" thread are looking for to conduct an experiment on musical energy. I saw through there scheming and got the admission from them, but your O could wind up as less than O. Please read the thread, post armed guards as you see fit, and see if you can snatch up some of whatever they're smoking.

catspaw

P.S. Congrats!!! Send Cigar!!!

Subject: RE: Info/Opinions RE: Martin Guitars
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 04 Mar 99 - 11:25 AM

The Fieldings, proud parents of small felines Kate and Allie, (don't blame me, they were named before we got them) announce a new addition to Ricks revoltingly large collection of instruments. Martina, a scarred, battered, scratched and overworked 50 year old 0-18 now rests comfortably in the basement. Her voice is loud and beautiful and with any luck she'll spend the next few years being treated like royalty. Mr. Fielding was heard to say: "oooh, oooh, oooh!" Mrs. Fielding's only comment was: "when are you gonna grow up?"

Subject: RE: Info/Opinions RE: Martin Guitars
From:
Date: 24 Feb 99 - 06:44 PM

I share your pain respecting television Art, but personally I'd probably have put my boot through it rather than wasting a good guitar.

Subject: RE: Info/Opinions RE: Martin Guitars
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 24 Feb 99 - 12:06 PM

Hey BK, I'd never question the durability of Ovations and Framus instruments! If I was in a life threatening situation, I'd rather be armed with my trusty Framus banjo, than some wimpy Vega Whyte Ladie. AND after you'd dispatched the attacker, the old Framus could still play a credible version of Taps over him. And let's face it, if your D28 fell off a wall hook and plunged 5 feet it wouldn't bounce a bit and remain unharmed like my Ovation did a few years ago. Keep on pickin'

Subject: RE: Info/Opinions RE: Martin Guitars
From: Liam's Brother
Date: 24 Feb 99 - 12:25 AM

Hi Art!

[Note the spelling. I'm not suggesting that "Pokegma Bear," as much as I love it, is High Art.]

What happened to the TV set? I'm going to assume that, if it kept on playing, Carol won the argument.

All the best.

Subject: RE: Info/Opinions RE: Martin Guitars
From: BK
Date: 24 Feb 99 - 12:08 AM

Hey! I got a Framus plectrum top-tension banjo & it's not too bad... not too good either, but what the heck.. 'n I can always lean on my Ovation if I'm playin' on the street & get tired... come on, guys, lets have a little respect... after all, it takes a lickin' & keeps on pickin' (sort of)...

cheers, BK

Subject: RE: Info/Opinions RE: Martin Guitars
From: Art Thieme
Date: 22 Feb 99 - 02:34 AM

Smashing my 00018 over the TV was actually the first "guitar break" I ever took!!

Art

Subject: RE: Info/Opinions RE: Martin Guitars
From: rick fielding
Date: 21 Feb 99 - 05:55 PM

"Paw", don't know what operation reforger was, but I'm sure that Framus was Germany's revenge for Gen. Patton.

Subject: RE: Info/Opinions RE: Martin Guitars
From: catspaw49
Date: 21 Feb 99 - 01:31 PM

Geez...what a blast from the past...Framus...my first 12...had a real funny peghead to neck design and the world's smallest neck for a 12. Bought Gibson, sold Framus to high school friend and he still had it at our 25 year reunion!!! Haven't seen him since, didn't make it to 30...think I'll give him a call.

catspaw

Subject: RE: Info/Opinions RE: Martin Guitars
From: Roger in Baltimore
Date: 21 Feb 99 - 01:10 PM

Ah yes, the famous Framus guitars. I bought a Framus 12-string in Germany while on Operation Reforger I. It was $110 at the PX. It was a playable guitar, but it was the quietest steel string guitar I have ever played. It died a slow depth from mistreatment at a teen recreation center where I worked.

Roger in Baltimore

Subject: RE: Info/Opinions RE: Martin Guitars
From: rick fielding
Date: 21 Feb 99 - 12:25 PM

Dammit Art, everytime you respond to someone I feel this gnawing need to respond to you. I guess that's your natural charisma at work.

Don't you know you're not supposed to argue with your wife, and if you must..then you're supposed to have a Kent, Stella (post 1955), or Framus hanging on the wall next to the TV, for that very purpose. If you prefer that the guitar (rather than the TV, survives) keep an Ovation handy.

Subject: RE: Info/Opinions RE: Martin Guitars
From: Art Thieme
Date: 21 Feb 99 - 10:24 AM

Dan,

Yer right, we did void the guarantee. (I doubt Joe had one on his old Silvertone back then.) But my Martin had no problem taking the extra 3 treble strings. (Some would say it was more "treble" than it was worth. But it had a fine sound.)

I tuned down an entire note & kept a capo at the 1st or 2nd fret. No altering was done to the bridge; I just put the 2 first strings into one hole and the 2 second strings into the second hole. One bridge-pin in each hole still--of course. And it did help me get more sound with less work--which was what I needed at that time.

It was worth all of it just to see Mike Longworth's reaction every time he'd stand there and gaze at it in Winfield! It really was.

Art

Subject: RE: Info/Opinions RE: Martin Guitars
From: Liam's Brother
Date: 21 Feb 99 - 08:29 AM

TO: BIG JOE WILLIAMS & ART THIEME (individually or jointly)

Gentlemen:

I believe you voided the warrantees on your instruments when you tacked on those extra 3 strings.

Subject: RE: Info/Opinions RE: Martin Guitars
From: Art Thieme
Date: 20 Feb 99 - 06:15 PM

I've had two 000-18 Matins--the first bought in '61 or 62 and ultimately died when I smashed it over the TV set during a discussion with my wife, Carol. Then used a D-28 for many years & rather than take the time for a fret job I was too busy), I traded it for a Gurian. Neck on the Gurian never did get put on right. Got rid of it when I WON a Martin D-76 bicentennial model (limited edition) in a raffle at the Old Town School of Folk Music in Chicago. (cost: $3.00) I've been playing that guitar in various configurations until I smashed it with the lid of a car trunk. (As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly... er,I thought there was plenty of room!) Jan Burda in Berian Springs, Michigan did a masterful job putting those matchstick pieces and splinters back together again. While it was in the shop I got my second 000-18. Did that for physical & health reasons. The smaller size etc. was easier for me to play.

Martin has always been the guitar for me. Never have seen a bad one. Later (more recently),I always tried to have two at the same time---in case one was in the shop. Always just felt good/right to own and pick on a Martin. Some o' that is just querrencia I suspect.

Art

Subject: RE: Info/Opinions RE: Martin Guitars
From: Pete (inactive)
Date: 20 Feb 99 - 04:13 PM

Hi,

I have a lot of various guitars and find that each of them has its own tune and style of music/playing.

Whilst on a day out I (as usual) popped into the local music shop - now as I said I have a lot of guitars, Gibson's M.R.'s, Ovations,etc... but I'd never bought a Martin - never in the right place at the right time or with the cash to hand - but I have played a lot of Martins, friends, etc and around the clubs.

On this day I saw as I walked in the door just one guitar standing out from all the rest - a Martin D.15 - The owner of the shop asked me to try it and tell him what I thought of it - I strummed, picked, down the neck up the neck with partial and standard capos. Everything about this guitar was right for me - the strings the actions and the feel - I love a guitar that makes my body vibrate when I play it - makes you feel a part of the music.

Yes O.K. I bought it - and play it whenever I can - in the clubs and at home - I am very pleased to own a guitar that gives me so much pleasure for such a reasonable price. Many other musician that have played this guitar have gone in search of one - and have also succumbed.

Well I like this Martin, but I don't like All Martins, Its that funny thing personal taste again.

Take care, sing and play well

Pete (Clansfolk)

Subject: RE: Info/Opinions RE: Martin Guitars
From: Liam's Brother
Date: 20 Feb 99 - 02:56 PM

I was talking with Orrin Star a few months ago. Orrin is a former National Flatpicking Champion and a knowledgeable guy about guitars and a number of other things. I asked him what his thoughts were on Martin guitars. He said that his preference is towards older Brazilian rosewood Martins (basically, guitars in the 20/30/40 series made in early 1969 and before) but he continued to say that, if he were buying a brand-new guitar today, he would more likely to get a Collings or Santa Cruz. This probably represents nothing more than information for most of us because pre-1970 Brazilian rosewood Marin guitars start about $2500 and the others he mentioned are not inexpensive either.

While many chores at the Martin factory are now mechanized, their guitars are still essentially handmade and still made in America. A question for Americans (in particular) to consider when they're buying a guitar is whether there is any value to owning a guitar handmade in America since 1833? There is no correct answer to this. Certainly it means a Martin guitar is going to be more expensive.

The Law of Diminishing Returns indicates that you can get a perfectly acceptable machine made guitar for $300 and that a handmade one for $3000 will not sound 10 times better, will not give you 10 times more range or, necessarily, be 10 times easier to play.

Whether the price of Martin (or any other) Guitars are fairly valued is a personal choice dependent on one's budget and level of interest. Who says your car should be worth 5 times more than your car? "You pays your money and you takes your choices!"

All the best,
Dan

Subject: RE: Info/Opinions RE: Martin Guitars
From: Neil Lowe (inactive)
Date: 16 Feb 99 - 09:03 AM

I was in a music store and just for kicks (as I could never have been able to afford it) I picked up a Martin 12-string and plunked around for a while. I was happily surprised that this guitar I was holding and cost well over ten times (in 1976 dollars) more than the $200.00 no-name I had at home sounded no better to my ear. Cheap tastes served me well, for they had saved me years of longing for something I could never have been able to acquire. I gently returned the guitar to its place on the wall rack and have never again felt the urge to revisit the highly touted Martin family of guitars.

Subject: RE: Info/Opinions RE: Martin Guitars
From: BK
Date: 16 Feb 99 - 12:32 AM

I am the original owner of 3 martins; 2 older ('57 & ~'63) & 1 of the newer cheaper DM's. Was gonna buy something else (Not Another Martin!!) but that clever dog of a salesman snuck the DM into my unwilling hands. Ended up trying most of the other Martins (& other brands, but they didn't have Taylor) in the store & liked the sound better than almost all the more expensive models. I'm still going to buy a cedar-topped, smaller-than-dreadnaught Taylor as my next serious guitar. picked up a Baby Taylor just for goofing around & love it -for it's size...

My problem w/Martin is rough relations w/the factory; I'm the original owner of my other 2 Martins as well & haven't been pleased w/the guarantee work or the attitude (Martin used to be fantastic). I haven't even gotten around to sending the papers on the DM yet (Moved twice in the 2+ yrs since purchasing it, & not sure if I should bother; The nut was a mile high, the bridge pins stuck way up... neck rod needed snugging several times.. all of which I'm quite capable of doing competently myself.. So now it also plays well. I even put on Rotomatics -easy bolt-on swap; all holes lined up perfectly.)

But the sound "was sweet & good, & I did what I could." I guess that's what counts. the guys at the bluegrass jam like the new DM almost as much as the older model; they each have a different character.

I have other, often much cheaper instruments that I also like a lot; appreciate each for what it is. Worst were 2 Guild dreadnaughts w/nice necks & sound that always disappointed, never matured. I did get rid of them, something I rarely do.

My advice to newbies: first get a carefully selected Seagull, then when you are ready for the higher level guitar, you can still use the old one for back-up, camping, give to the kids, younger sib, etc.. you'll have something worth keeping hold of til your experience & taste mature.

Cheers, BK

Subject: RE: Info/Opinions RE: Martin Guitars
From:
Date: 15 Feb 99 - 07:20 PM

Hi Martinlovers,

I have an 9 years old HD-28 and some of my friends use other Martin models bought 3-8 years ago. Some of us are professionals and some (like me) are just amateur folkies.

We all share the opinion that Martins before 1968 were much better, esp. when thinking of materials. Our Mguitars need corrections aprox. 2 times a year, including corrections of the neck.

I think Martins dated 1968 and later aren't worth money they cost. Besides we have many other instruments, that we prefere: various Takamine models, some old Guilds, newer Ovation.

I think, this is like other famous brands ex. Mercedes: 20 % values + 80% marketing.

Regards

Szarak

Subject: RE: Info/Opinions RE: Martin Guitars
From: catspaw49
Date: 15 Feb 99 - 03:08 AM

Thought I'd let this pass one more time before moving on to other brands. I've owned several Martins and all have been fine guitars. Martin probably provides the benchmark instrument in many ways. Reading everyone's comments has been interesting as none are anti-Martin and most seem to agree on certain points.

I too like the sound balance of the M series, which has now reverted to it's previous 0000 designation. Martin is also aggresively pursuing all ends of the market and seem to be doing a good job of it. Martin went through a period of stagnation but the newfound competition from Taylor and others, combined with a solid leadership from Chris IV, has brought them to a level that I don't believe anyone expected a few years ago. Some may be wishing they had "let sleeping dogs lie."

Someone brought up the aging point, to which I can only add that a great sounding guitar will get better. A clunk, no matter what brand, will never improve. Also, Martin has a great factory tour and if you're in eastern PA. you need to check it out.

catspaw

Subject: RE: Info/Opinions RE: Martin Guitars
From:
Date: 02 Feb 99 - 01:54 PM

I am a happy owner of a Martin D-35, which I bought new in 1976.The same year I bought a Fylde-Orlando.This one is hand made on Englands Westcoast and it sounds very "crispy" Helge in Norway