BS: Which Sex Cheats More?

Subject: BS: Which Sex Cheats More?
From: Ebbie
Date: 18 Mar 06 - 11:58 AM

At last night's music, desultory talk brought out an amazing assertion: That more wives cheat than do husbands.

Now this, I just don't believe. On the other hand, I have no evidence to back up my disagreement. I have never heard any such claim before but this one was made by a philosophy-degreed woman who is usually level headed and dispassionate.

So, what are the facts? I'm sure that studies have been made- what is the consensus?

Subject: RE: BS: Which Sex Cheats More?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 18 Mar 06 - 12:25 PM

Over.

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: Which Sex Cheats More?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 18 Mar 06 - 12:33 PM

The most "definitive" studies that report on the question were the Kinsey surveys, but they're mostly 60 years old, and subject to some questions about general validity even when they were more current. There were at least three major "Kinsey Reports," but only one actually surveyed people out in public. The two earliest used mostly results from prison populations.

Masters and Johnson reported some figures, but since their main interest was in treatment of persons suffering "malperformance" difficulties, there is considerable question of how applicable their results are to any general population.

Other "highly praised" surveys that have been reported, and even cited in some medical research reports, have mostly been of "self-selected" populations, such as readers of a particular magazine or some other subgroup population. Surveys conducted specifically for scientific data gathering by researchers using accepted/acceptable methodology to get information on the population at large have been mostly too small to gather really good samples.

And on surveys, people lie.

So the real answer is that from a scientific/medical standpoint, nobody really knows. But speculation is a common parlor/party game.

There is a distinction to be made between which have more affairs, and which would like to have more affairs; and failure to separate these subtly(?) different categories of replies has polluted a number of otherwise marginally useful surveys.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Which Sex Cheats More?
From: jonm
Date: 18 Mar 06 - 12:39 PM

The other source of data is, of course, divorce. Evidence in divorce petitions suggests that more women than men have affairs, but men who have affairs tend to hae multiple affairs (or maybe their wives are more tolerant and have them back after the first transgression!).

Subject: RE: BS: Which Sex Cheats More?
From: Rapparee
Date: 18 Mar 06 - 12:51 PM

Does it matter? In most cultures it's a betrayal of trust.

Subject: RE: BS: Which Sex Cheats More?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 18 Mar 06 - 12:52 PM

The figures from divorce are considered of marginal usefulness simply because in some US states the only way to get a divorce was to "prove" that one party or the other was somehow "at fault" and it was often by mutual agreement that one or the other would fabricate an affair as the simplest way of getting a divorce that both wanted.

In cases where one party wanted the divorce, and the other didn't, there does seem to be a tendency for it to be more often the woman who wants it when the man doesn't. In the absence of proof of an affair by the male, a woman might make up a lover, just to get out of an unhappy marriage.

The divorce figures are somewhat better, perhaps, since most states have admitted some form of "no-fault" divorce, but there still are, or appear to be, lots of "false positives" in the data.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Which Sex Cheats More?
From: GUEST,Hermaphodites
Date: 18 Mar 06 - 01:09 PM

do because

Subject: RE: BS: Which Sex Cheats More?
From: open mike
Date: 18 Mar 06 - 01:31 PM

depends on if you mean by cheating...
like pretending to have an orgasm...
that is sort of cheating...in a way...

Subject: RE: BS: Which Sex Cheats More?
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 18 Mar 06 - 02:28 PM

Opinion only: More men cheat, but more women have long-running affairs. A lot of male cheating is of the single-encounter type, such as with prostitutes or bar pick-ups, where there's minimal emotional involvement. Women have a much stronger tendency to cheat with men they already know well and, thusly, run a much higher risk of getting "involved".

Subject: RE: BS: Which Sex Cheats More?
From: Peace
Date: 18 Mar 06 - 02:35 PM

"Infidelity statistics
It's tough to get a handle on how many of us are having affairs, given the inherent secrecy.

22 percent of married men have strayed at least once during their married lives.
14 percent of married women have had affairs at least once during their married lives.
Younger people are more likely candidates; in fact, younger women are as likely as younger men to be unfaithful.
70 percent of married women and 54 percent of married men did not know of their spouses' extramarital activity.
5 percent of married men and 3 percent of married women reported having sex with someone other than their spouse in the 1997.
22 percent of men and 14 percent of women admitted to having sexual relations outside their marriage sometime in their past.
90 percent of Americans believe adultery is morally wrong.
50 percent of Americans say President Clinton's adultery makes his moral standard "about the same as the average married man,'' according to a Time-CNN poll.
61 percent of Americans thought adultery should not be a crime in the United states; 35 percent thought it should; 4 percent had no opinion.
17 percent of divorces in the United States are caused by infidelity.
Source: Associated Press"

Subject: RE: BS: Which Sex Cheats More?
From: GUEST,who's the daddy
Date: 18 Mar 06 - 02:37 PM

ancient proverb: "its a wise man who knows his real father!"


so ok, now we got gene testing if there's any paternity doubt..
but a guy needs to suspect his wife in the first place,
which is where women are so cunning.

Subject: RE: BS: Which Sex Cheats More?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 18 Mar 06 - 02:39 PM

middlesex or essex...a tough call
80%of yorkshiremen think there is something morally reprehensible about them

Subject: RE: BS: Which Sex Cheats More?
From: GUEST,Anonymous
Date: 18 Mar 06 - 03:00 PM

I cheat with my ex especially as he has a girlfriend now.

Subject: RE: BS: Which Sex Cheats More?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 18 Mar 06 - 03:21 PM

I think Jonm had it right...

More women cheat, but when men are inclined to cheat they do so more casually and with more partners.

Mind you, I've seen 3 females who were total exceptions to that theory. They were compulsive casual cheaters, and it didn't seem to matter much with whom...whoever was handy at the time.

Subject: RE: BS: Which Sex Cheats More?
From: Purple Foxx
Date: 18 Mar 06 - 03:25 PM

Like the young woman who,when asked if she was faithful to her husband said "Yes,frequently".

Subject: RE: BS: Which Sex Cheats More?
From: Ebbie
Date: 18 Mar 06 - 03:34 PM

One of the things that struck me was that if it is true that more women cheat on their Essos than men do, there must be a LOT of children whose fathers are not their mother's husband. A great many husbands and wives don't use birth control.

Peace, your AP figures kind of bear out what my understanding was.

Historically, men have had much more freedom and lack of 'supervision' than women have had. Nowadays, of course, there are many women out there who 'work late' or have to go out of town for meetings and conferences, but I should think that numerically they are still far outnumbered by men.

One reason - and perhaps I'm being naive - that I believe that women would have fewer affairs is that it seems to me they tend to want more emotional involvement with their sexual parnters than men often do. And given the difficulty of finding 'true love', surely casual sex is more easily found and engaged in by men.

I can believe that women in the job market may have affairs that endanger their marriages and they may even seek that way out of their marriage. We all know men, I suspect, who have multiple or serial affairs during their marriages - and strangely, when they are found out they almost universally seem stunned that women might kick them out because of it. I believe that a woman who is found out is not at all surprised to find that the marriage is over.

Not that I'm opinionated. :)

Subject: RE: BS: Which Sex Cheats More?
From: GUEST,thurg
Date: 18 Mar 06 - 03:40 PM

As I've had occasion to note before, studies show that 77.8% of statistics are made up on the spot, 19 times out of 20, with a margin for error of 2%.

Subject: RE: BS: Which Sex Cheats More?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 18 Mar 06 - 03:45 PM

Yeah, that sounds about right to me, thurg.

Subject: RE: BS: Which Sex Cheats More?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 18 Mar 06 - 03:47 PM

thread titles now say: Which Sex Cheats More - Sitting At the kitchen table

Ha! Ha! Ha! I'd make that women.

Subject: RE: BS: Which Sex Cheats More?
From: Bobert
Date: 18 Mar 06 - 04:11 PM

Well, takes two to tango so it has to be 50/50, or purdy danged close....

(But, Bobert, that doesn't take into account folks who cheat witrh more than one member of the opposite sex...)

Nevermind... All I know is that me and the P-Vine don't cheat... Okay, I think she cheats at solitare because I learned you can only go thrru the deck 3 times and she just goes and goes...

And when it comes to arguments womenz cheat like crazy...

Subject: RE: BS: Which Sex Cheats More?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 18 Mar 06 - 07:24 PM

As far as I'm concerned, the answer would have to be "Who gives a damn?".

The only thing more pointless than asking "Which is better at ______ (fill in your own subject here), men or women", is asking "Which is worse?"

I'll settle for "Men and women are different", and thank God they are.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Which Sex Cheats More?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 18 Mar 06 - 09:04 PM

You're right. It simply doesn't matter.

Subject: RE: BS: Which Sex Cheats More?
From: GUEST,sweet & innocent l'il angel
Date: 18 Mar 06 - 09:08 PM

.. until you find out


she


cheats on

you !

Subject: RE: BS: Which Sex Cheats More?
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Mar 06 - 09:42 PM

.. or until she finds out

you


cheat on

her !

Subject: RE: BS: Which Sex Cheats More?
From: freda underhill
Date: 18 Mar 06 - 10:11 PM

The Janus Report on Sexual Behavior estimates that "More than one-third of men and one-quarter of women admit having had at least one extramarital sexual experience." A survey by the National Opinion Research Center (University of Chicago) found lower percentages: 25 percent of men had been unfaithful and 17 percent of women. Even when these lower ratios are applied to the current adult population, that means that some 19 million husbands and 12 million wives have had an affair.

An article in a 1997 issue of Newsweek magazine noted that various surveys suggest that as many as 30 percent of male Protestant ministers have had sexual relationships with women other than their wives.

The Journal of Pastoral Care in 1993 reported a survey of Southern Baptist pastors in which 14 percent acknowledged they had engaged in "sexual behavior inappropriate to a minister." It also reported that 70 percent had counseled at least one woman who had had intercourse with another minister.

A 1988 survey of nearly 1000 Protestant clergy by Leadership magazine found that 12 percent admitted to sexual intercourse outside of marriage, and that 23 percent had done something sexually inappropriate with someone other than their spouse. The researchers also interviewed nearly 1000 subscribers to Christianity Today who were not pastors. They found the numbers were nearly double: 45 percent indicated having done something sexually inappropriate, and 23 percent having extramarital intercourse.

sources:

Samuel Janus and Cynthia Janus, The Janus Report on Sexual Behavior (New York: John Wiley and Sons, 1993), 169.

Joannie Schrof, "Adultery in America," U.S. News and World Report, 31 Aug. 1998, 31.

Kenneth Woodward, "Sex, Morality and the Protestant Minister," Newsweek (28 July 1997), 62.

"How Common Is Pastoral Indiscretion?" Leadership (Winter 1988), 12.

Subject: RE: BS: Which Sex Cheats More?
From: freda underhill
Date: 18 Mar 06 - 10:16 PM

back to anecdotal, I have three friends who are psychologists, and have spent over thirty years counselling, including marriage guidance counselling. They all claim that their experience is that men will only willingly leave a marriage or union if they have someone else to go to, whereas women willingly intstigate divorce without necessarily having a partner to go to. in Australia more women instigate dvorces than men.

Subject: RE: BS: Which Sex Cheats More?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 19 Mar 06 - 01:54 AM

how do you define cheat?
is deception part of it?
anybody who is not monogamous, after having taken wedding vows?

Reminds me of the Lenny Bruce bit about the man whose wife walks in on him whilst he is making love to a chicken. ("She meant nothing to me. I never really related to the chicken at the same level we do, and..... anyway it was you I was thinking of, all the time we were doing it")

what I mean is, its all very personal, all kinds of foul deeds keep a marriage together sometimes.

Subject: RE: BS: Which Sex Cheats More?
From: GUEST,Dewey
Date: 19 Mar 06 - 02:52 AM

The most tragic thing about this entire thread is the last word of its beginning title, the word: "More"

Think about it for a while.

I had an acquaintance once who bragged to me about how wonderful his "new' girlfriend was. As it turns out, at the time, he was finding and having sex with "new" girlfriends about once a week.

After mentioning his "new" one, I replied to him, "I thought Christy was your NEW girlfriend. He just looked back at me and smurcked, "O.K. I guess I meant to say my "NEWEST" girlfriend.

I realize nowaday a growing number of people (dare I say the majority) do not care about how often, or how many. But perhaps those that feel this way should reconsider, as it definitely does wonders for your continued peace of mind among others who might: namely your wife and kids, Have you forgotten,in your might tally,to determine which of the sexes does it more....about THEM!



I think nowadays its not a man orwoman issue as to the greater offender, the word "MORE" hear pretty much some up todays philosophy toward sexuality. Always wanting more and never satisfied and working with the one mate you took marriage vows to, to be committed to!

Check out the 7th Commandment, It was put there for a reason, and anyone who thinks they can get around it is a fool.




Dewey

Subject: RE: BS: Which Sex Cheats More?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 19 Mar 06 - 05:14 AM

From: GUEST,sweet & innocent l'il angel - PM
Date: 18 Mar 06 - 09:08 PM

.. until you find out


she


cheats on

you !


If she does, surely that is of interest only to you, and no damned business of anyone else.

Comparisons of this type are, at best, pointless. At worst they are odious.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Which Sex Cheats More?
From: GUEST,Claus Moser
Date: 19 Mar 06 - 05:35 AM

67% of statistics are wrong

Subject: RE: BS: Which Sex Cheats More?
From: GUEST,dax
Date: 19 Mar 06 - 06:12 AM

67% are only wrong 17 times out of 20.

Subject: RE: BS: Which Sex Cheats More?
From: Ebbie
Date: 19 Mar 06 - 11:06 AM

Don T, I think you have mis-taken my reason for starting this thread. But, seeing as how that is how you took it, I wouldn't do it again.

Subject: RE: BS: Which Sex Cheats More?
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 19 Mar 06 - 01:22 PM

I guess you could say that cheating is about even really...for every man who cheats there has to be a woman (or man) and vice-versa. It always takes two!

Subject: RE: BS: Which Sex Cheats More?
From: Peace
Date: 19 Mar 06 - 01:29 PM

That is a very profound statement.

Subject: RE: BS: Which Sex Cheats More?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 19 Mar 06 - 01:51 PM

That is a very profound statement.

...without much meaning.

For the "It always takes two" declaration to be of significance it would be necessary that married men and women could only cheat with other married women and men, and no person could cheat with more than one other person at any given time. There appears to be a rather large auxiliary pool of unmarried persons who could, and likely do, participate in the cheating by marrieds.

In a one office situation within my realm of experience, the rumors would have suggested that every male in the office (except of course me) had cheated with the same unmarried female (who was in fact rather "sssstimulatingggg," but I believe quite innocent of any of what was rumored.)

John

Subject: RE: BS: Which Sex Cheats More?
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 19 Mar 06 - 01:58 PM

JohninKansas. If a single woman has an affair with a married man...she is also a cheat if she does it knowingly, and vice versa of course.

Subject: RE: BS: Which Sex Cheats More?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 19 Mar 06 - 02:07 PM

The morality of it all is a separate question from the statistics.

I learned recently that Kansas statutes on Civil Marriage were rather abruptly rewritten ca 1981, to delete all references to alimony and to prohibit civil suits for "alienation of affection." I'm really curious to know which State Senator was about to sue (or be sued) for divorce.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Which Sex Cheats More?
From: Mr Red
Date: 20 Mar 06 - 12:37 AM

three facts to chew on.

1) women under report, men overstate.

2) 1 in 10 putative fathers ain't the father

3) there are more female prostitutes than male prostitutes.

Subject: RE: BS: Which Sex Cheats More?
From: Grab
Date: 20 Mar 06 - 08:24 AM

They all claim that their experience is that men will only willingly leave a marriage or union if they have someone else to go to, whereas women willingly intstigate divorce without necessarily having a partner to go to.

OTOH, we have two female friends who took ages to leave their abusive partners because they thought they weren't anyone if they didn't have a boyfriend. I'm no psychologist, but that's certainly my experience of younger women. It's likely different when you're older and more secure, I guess, and there's another factor to consider - how this behaviour changes with age.

Graham.

Subject: RE: BS: Which Sex Cheats More?
From: John P
Date: 20 Mar 06 - 09:44 AM

Some people cheat, some don't. That's the big difference between them, not what sex they are.

John Peekstok

Subject: RE: BS: Which Sex Cheats More?
From: GUEST,Male Mucatter
Date: 20 Mar 06 - 03:14 PM

annon for obvious reasons:

Wish I could say I've been monogamous all my married life but I can't.

I only comment because it always surprised me 1) that few women were shy about sleeping with a man they knew was married and 2) that many very nice married women would be willing to cheat.

I didn't make this a career, and don;t condone cheating ... but it seems to me the numbers are pretty equal.

Many men I know thought cheating was OK. It was in fact a game, a challenge and an extension of "locker room" talk. I never did. In fact I always had disdain for that talk ... but I did stray some, over the years - never with a prostitute, most often with a woman close to my age and station ... in fact, women who reminded me of my wife were most attractive to me. I love women and had mostly nice experiences ... but I never believed it was the right thing to do.

And I wouldn't do it again. I'm not sure if it's age or wisdom. I've always loved my wife and want to be the best husband I can be. So maybe age and wisdom have helped me stay focused on that ... and kept me from continuing to stray.

Subject: RE: BS: Which Sex Cheats More?
From: Bill D
Date: 20 Mar 06 - 03:27 PM

too bad it took John in Kansas to remind us that the morality issue is separate from statistics.

If statistics were the issue, the question should read "Which Sex is more likely to have sex outside their primary relationship?"

"cheating" implies a moral decision already.

(and the notion, that gender is the major factor in anyone's decision to have multiple relationships, is narrow to begin with....culture, economic level, stress level, and several genetic factors are ALL involved)

Subject: RE: BS: Which Sex Cheats More?
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 20 Mar 06 - 07:39 PM

And 'choice' of course

Subject: RE: BS: Which Sex Cheats More?
From: Ebbie
Date: 20 Mar 06 - 09:19 PM

Bill D, I was thinking in terms of statistics. It just didn't make sense to me that more committed women cheat than committed men. Goes counter to what I have always observed.

Your mentioning 'morality' as though it were somehow inappropriate or going somewhat over the top makes me think of the marriage vow itself. Breaking that vow surely is a moral issue.

And breaking that vow is as least as much cheating as having two partners in business together and seeing one of them abscond with the funds.

Subject: RE: BS: Which Sex Cheats More?
From: John P
Date: 21 Mar 06 - 10:27 AM

My perception is that more men are willing to cheat. Whether or not that translates to more cheating I don't know. I think it's easier for a woman to find someone to cheat with than it is for men.

John Peekstok

Subject: RE: BS: Which Sex Cheats More?
From: JedMarum
Date: 21 Mar 06 - 11:15 PM

... remember that great line in Breaking Away, when the young man, after discoveriing the hero Italian cyclists he idolizes cheat at racing, that his friends betray friends and even his father cheats his customers says, "everybody cheats; I just didn' know!'

Subject: RE: BS: Which Sex Cheats More?
From: Peace
Date: 21 Mar 06 - 11:18 PM

BS: Which Sex Cheats More?

The sex with the worst legal representation.