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BS: Football World Cup 2006

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The Shambles 07 Jul 06 - 08:01 AM
Kweku 07 Jul 06 - 09:12 AM
The Shambles 07 Jul 06 - 10:33 AM
Wolfgang 07 Jul 06 - 03:15 PM
ard mhacha 07 Jul 06 - 04:13 PM
Wolfgang 09 Jul 06 - 01:40 PM
The Shambles 09 Jul 06 - 02:00 PM
GUEST,Tirgra 09 Jul 06 - 04:45 PM
Ernest 09 Jul 06 - 04:47 PM
Wolfgang 09 Jul 06 - 04:48 PM
GUEST,Martin 09 Jul 06 - 04:52 PM
The Shambles 09 Jul 06 - 05:06 PM
Bill D 09 Jul 06 - 05:16 PM
Dave the Gnome 09 Jul 06 - 05:19 PM
GUEST,Martin 09 Jul 06 - 05:27 PM
GUEST,Peter P. 09 Jul 06 - 05:31 PM
The Shambles 10 Jul 06 - 03:04 AM
Divis Sweeney 10 Jul 06 - 03:26 AM
Folkiedave 10 Jul 06 - 04:03 AM
Dave the Gnome 10 Jul 06 - 04:39 AM
Dave the Gnome 10 Jul 06 - 04:40 AM
GUEST 10 Jul 06 - 05:02 AM
Big Al Whittle 10 Jul 06 - 07:16 AM
Divis Sweeney 10 Jul 06 - 07:49 AM
ard mhacha 10 Jul 06 - 08:18 AM
Dave the Gnome 10 Jul 06 - 08:22 AM
Big Al Whittle 10 Jul 06 - 08:31 AM
Dave the Gnome 10 Jul 06 - 08:57 AM
Divis Sweeney 10 Jul 06 - 09:29 AM
alanabit 10 Jul 06 - 10:31 AM
Big Tim 10 Jul 06 - 10:47 AM
Bill D 10 Jul 06 - 11:06 AM
Kweku 10 Jul 06 - 11:46 AM
Bill D 10 Jul 06 - 11:58 AM
The Shambles 10 Jul 06 - 12:07 PM
GUEST 10 Jul 06 - 12:19 PM
McGrath of Harlow 10 Jul 06 - 12:32 PM
The Shambles 10 Jul 06 - 12:37 PM
GUEST,Quarcoo 10 Jul 06 - 12:38 PM
Bill D 10 Jul 06 - 01:14 PM
gnu 10 Jul 06 - 01:19 PM
McGrath of Harlow 10 Jul 06 - 01:30 PM
gnu 10 Jul 06 - 02:16 PM
The Shambles 10 Jul 06 - 04:01 PM
McGrath of Harlow 10 Jul 06 - 07:36 PM
gnu 10 Jul 06 - 07:58 PM
GUEST 10 Jul 06 - 09:50 PM
The Shambles 11 Jul 06 - 03:05 AM
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gnu 11 Jul 06 - 05:06 AM

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Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Shambles
Date: 07 Jul 06 - 08:01 AM

FIFA refers to the offence as 'simulation'. If their move was to cut this offence out of this tournament - they will have to think again.

I think that the PTB should concentrate on measures that actually prevent fouls from being committed and where players who do struggle to stay on their feet are encouraged to do this and are rewarded.

The present use of cards gives permission for foul play and just concentrates on the punishment of those individuals unlucky enough to have their foul play recognised in what is really a lottery. The result of which is that players like France's Louis Saha will now miss now the chance of appearing in the the biggest game of his career - for just being unlucky....


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Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Kweku
Date: 07 Jul 06 - 09:12 AM

I am beginning to wonder the purpose of those 24 cameras in every stadium at the world cup. Because certain incidents can be quickly explained to the referee to take good decisions, Figo head-butted a Dutch player and all he got was a yellow card. Rooney was struggling with 3 players over the ball,it could be said that he was also fouled but then he was surrounded by the opposing team, so anything negative he did could be so amplifying. Am still trying to figure out why the referee couldn't sympathise with young man.


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Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Shambles
Date: 07 Jul 06 - 10:33 AM

Am still trying to figure out why the referee couldn't sympathise with young man.

His reward for this lack of sympathy is to be awarded the final.

However, I think it less a lack of sympathy than poor refereeing. His failure to protect the player with the ball led to the whole incident flaring up.


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Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Wolfgang
Date: 07 Jul 06 - 03:15 PM

I've seen Germany-Italy in the garden of an Italian pizzeria which was the perfect palce to watch it (I don't have a TV at my weekdays home). Mostly Germans, some tables filled with Italians, in between Dutch and English, a pizza and an Italian light white wine (and a Grappa after the finish). The crowd was to my taste: They did not look at the colour of the jersey befoe deciding whether to applaud a good action.

It was one of the best games I have seen. I have seen the two teams equally strong during normal time with a lot of chances for both. 1:1 or 2:2 at 90 minutes also could have been a possible result. But I've seen Italy grow stronger by the minute during the extra time. The German replacements were worse than those they did replace and all German players looked a bit tired in extra time. Italy even should have scored earlier during extra time and the last minute goal(s) made sure that the better of the two teams goes to the final.

BTW, the town was full of honking cars after the match and most of them were filled with Germans. That shows how most of us feel about this team.

The choice of Podolsky as "best young player" can be justified by the reason that the two who I consider being better, Ronaldo (Portugal) and Messi (Arg), didn't play often.

If Zizou will not be elected "best player" of this world cup it'll be a screaming injustice. I'm looking forward to see him play a last time.

I won't be able to see our B-team trying to beat Portugal. That'll be Kahn's last appearance in the national eleven. I never did like him as a person during all his career, but that has changed so radically during the last four weeks that I have hoped since last Tuesday that he'll play for third place instead of Lehmann. Well done, Klinsmann.

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: ard mhacha
Date: 07 Jul 06 - 04:13 PM

Lehmann`s about as nice as a pit full of vipers, his conduct in the English Premier league did not earn him many friends, he was the most unpopular player in the Premier.


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Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Wolfgang
Date: 09 Jul 06 - 01:40 PM

Just before the final I'm undecided whom I want to win. If it's Italy I could boast that I told you so in my first post in this thread some weeks ago (and hope noone remembers my wrong prediction for Germany also in that first post), but deep in my heart I'm for France, not in general, but I'm fond of this particular French team.

Well, two strong defenses in the final. The only hope for a brilliant game is a quick goal for France. But no team has scored yet against Italy this time. The only goal against them was an own goal, a kind of unforced error.

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Shambles
Date: 09 Jul 06 - 02:00 PM

This reminds me of the last time Italy won.

I did a sweep at the last sixteen stage and when all the tickets were gone - to much ammusment I was left with Italy. Along with the World Cup winner's prize - there was a prize for the team who scored the most goals. Italy up to that point were hopeless, had not scored a goal and only progressed because of other results.

When I ended winning both prizes - I was accused of fixing the draw.

Among my many predictions - after their poor start, I did advise not to write France off. But I think Italy do look to be the strongest all round team out of the two finalists.


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Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: GUEST,Tirgra
Date: 09 Jul 06 - 04:45 PM

Catholics throughout the world unite and celebrate the fact that the World Cup now resides in Rome. Blessings from Ireland


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Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Ernest
Date: 09 Jul 06 - 04:47 PM

There seems to start a party outside... I am hearing fireworks

It is over!!!!!! Hurrraaahhhh!!!!!!!!!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Wolfgang
Date: 09 Jul 06 - 04:48 PM

I told you so some weeks ago - and (I would choke if I would not mention it): Italy did beat neither Argentine nor Brazil.

What a fucking end to a great career. I now hope he won't be elected best player of the world cup. Second player in the world to collect two red cards in his wolrl cup career.

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: GUEST,Martin
Date: 09 Jul 06 - 04:52 PM

Thug, deserved to get sent off. Wonder will France cry for weeks like the British did ?


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Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Shambles
Date: 09 Jul 06 - 05:06 PM

Why did ZZ blow his top?

That (and the fact that it was decided on penalties) has did put a dampener on what should have been great climax. A sorry end to a wonderful career.

It did not seem to be done in the 'heat of the moment'. It looked as if he had a lot of time to think about it - and think better of it - but he didn't. I would have liked to have remembered him by the penalty he scored and style in which he took it.

Well done Italy. ...and this time I didn't have them in the sweep.


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Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Bill D
Date: 09 Jul 06 - 05:16 PM

well...in my view, Italy was not offside on that 2nd goal , and deserved the win anyway....

I understand that ZZ has done this before, once stepping on the back of a Saudi player....sad....


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Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Jul 06 - 05:19 PM

Wonder will France cry for weeks like the British did ?

What, like the many weeks between Saturday 1st July and Sunday 9th July? Let me see, my maths isn't that good but it must be, what? Ahhh - Got it! Just over 1 week! Well done, Martin, you need to get a commentators job...

Anyway. Well done Italy. I think it was well deserved. Not too much on the final but over the cup they have been brilliant. As to Zidane. Well, what can anyone say? Weired. I thought he looked like an alien. Perhaps he has been taken over?

Cheers

DtG


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Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: GUEST,Martin
Date: 09 Jul 06 - 05:27 PM

Dave the crying will continue by the British for weeks, expect you knew what I meant.


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Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: GUEST,Peter P.
Date: 09 Jul 06 - 05:31 PM


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Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Shambles
Date: 10 Jul 06 - 03:04 AM

On reflection it would have been better if Ziddane had kept to his original plan to retire from international duty and not been pursuaded to return. His frustration in this game seemed to be that he was not able to influence the game as he once was. Whilst still being the best player on the pitch - great players like him are judged and judge themselves by the high standards they themselves have set.

I think when his headed attempt on goal was saved that he knew that he simply did not have the required pace and energy any more to whip that team into the required attacking force. I am sure that the Italian player concerned had done or said something to anger him and trigger this, but I suspect it was more the frustration with his own limitations that caused this strange outburst.

It seemed as if he really thought that by waiting until attention was elswhere - he could head-butt his protagonist and no one would notice..........In the World Cup final of course - if he really thought this - he was mistaken. A sad farewell to a great player.

The Zidane of old had a built-in radar or eyes in the back of his head and always knew where his team mates were and how to find them. He also knew where any tacklers were coming from and he always had the ability to move just out of reach. I will remember this player - rather than his shadow, which was sent off in this game.


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Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 10 Jul 06 - 03:26 AM

Sad thing about it is throughout Europe on everyother street corner or patch of grass where young kids play football and chanted his name for the past few weeks.

Last night they witnessed their hero Zidane bury his head into another player.

Somewhere, some mother today will have to bring her child to an A&E department of a hospital to get stitches in her son's face, result of a head butt. He set no example to his young followers and fans. Thought a professional footballer of his rank would be advised how to deal with abuse from players and fans alike.

On reflection it was a poor World Cup with players of most nations spending more time prior to the tourement getting their dive right, than actual footballing skills.


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Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Folkiedave
Date: 10 Jul 06 - 04:03 AM

I agree that Zidane was a wonderful footballer and also that he lit up chunks of this World Cup. Apart from the penalty though the game more or less passed him by in the first half. And I have seen a large number of his games for Real Madrid this season and he looked past his best, with just occasional flashes of brilliance.

At the same time though he clearly has a self-destruct button which he has pressed on a number of occasions in albeit a long career.

His track record includes headbutting - for which he was given a five match ban by UEFA.

Sent off twice in the World Cup - once against Saudia Arabia in 2002.

When playing for Juventus, sent off for violent conduct in 2000

Sent off for Real Madrid against Sevilla for slapping an opponents face in a cup match.

Sent off for Juve against Inter Milan.

BIt of a Roy Keane/Viera type really!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 Jul 06 - 04:39 AM

Quick English lesson, Martin

Did = Past tense as in "will cry for weeks like the British did"

Will continue = Future tense as in "the crying will continue by the British for weeks"

The two are not interchangeable. I did know exactly what you meant. Both times;-)

Cheers

DtG


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Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 Jul 06 - 04:40 AM

Oh, btw, the British did not have a team in the World cup did they?

:D (tG)


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Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Jul 06 - 05:02 AM

Your right Dave. Hargraves born in Canada, grow up in Germany


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Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 10 Jul 06 - 07:16 AM

that was a great headbutt. You don't figure out how to do them spontaneously. Obviously a well rehearsed party trick.


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Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 10 Jul 06 - 07:49 AM

Why the chest ? Thought only goats did that. Any Glaswegian would be ashamed of him.


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Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: ard mhacha
Date: 10 Jul 06 - 08:18 AM

ZZZZZ, That was the standard of this World Cup, a boring spectacle, the final game didn`t enliven it any.


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Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 Jul 06 - 08:22 AM

I wondered that myself, Divis. But then I figured it out. Watching replays will bear me out. As Zidane walked past Materazzi the Italian muttered "Help, I'm having a heart attack."

Zidane laughed, thinking it was a joke and said "Ho, ho. You Italians. Alaways joking."

As he gets 3 yards away Materazzi gasps "No, please, help me."

Zidane realises he is not joking and instantly administers an unusual but very effective CPR. Materazzi collapses with lack of blood to the brain and cannot speak for several minutes. In which time Zidane is sent off. By the time Materazzi realises what has happened it is all to late. Besides, he cannot now show dissent to the ref.

See? Easy...

:D (tG)


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Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 10 Jul 06 - 08:31 AM

I take AM's point. I can't actually think of one match, where everybody said, well that was a classic....

All my football expert friends(people who watch football all the time, to the exclusion of everything else) tell me that England were rubbish.

Alanabit said they were the best team we are likely to put together - like ever. If I were the sort of person who worried about football, I would be worried about that.


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Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 Jul 06 - 08:57 AM

I'm not realy a footie fan but enjoy the big events like this so did get to see more than usual. Most games I saw were indeed very poor. I think Germany and Portugal on Saturday was an exception - I think even Ronaldo realised his diving tactics were not working:-) Saw a couple in the groups that were good. None of the knock outs were exceptional at all.

I think the elements of the England team were all there - with some very good players amongst them so I think Alanabit may be right. But it was potential that they had and at the end of the day I don't think that they were good enough as a team. I dunno what is needed but from a non-footballing Gnomes point of view management and practice semed to be lacking. Perhaps a officionado (No - he doesn't play for Portugal!) can tell us?

Cheers

DtG


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Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 10 Jul 06 - 09:29 AM

Thought I saw his lips go blue too Dave. They said he did it because Materazzi twisted his nipple as he walked past him. Tell you what from now on I am going to be more careful when that women serves me in the newsagent from now on.


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Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: alanabit
Date: 10 Jul 06 - 10:31 AM

I really do think these were the best English players who were ever sent to the World Cup Finals. When all is said and done, it is indeed a team game, so what others say about them failing to work as a team has to be right. I also agree with previous posters that no outstanding team emerged and that there were few outstanding games.
I was disappointed that England never found their rhythm and confidence. I had also hoped that for once they might have an unfair advantage. Had the weather been like last year's, there may have been one or two wet pitches and the temperatures would have been more to their liking. It did not happen.
They actually looked better once they had lost the ball. For me, that hints at defensiveness. All the teams tended to pass the ball sideways rather than forwards. However, I would have liked England to take some risks and play offensively. They had extraordinary luck in that none of their first choice defenders or midfielders were ruled out by injury. That has never happened before. They also took two World class strikers with them. It was in that department their luck ran out. They never had two first choice strikers fit at the same time. In view of the fact that only Brazil have a God given right to have two World class strikers at any one time, that is not really a good enough excuse. There can be little doubt though that they were forced to change their game plan several times.
At the end of the day, the Germans performed far better. Only their goalkeeper, I think, would have made it into the England side. That is the light at the end of the tunnel really. England can never hope to have that many exceptional players again at one time, but they can hope to function much better as a team. I think that when Steve McClaren is gone and we have a genuine international manager, who can show two fingers to the FA, we will have as much chance of putting out a decent team as anyone. It is a shame we failed so badly this time around though, because it was there for the taking.


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Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Big Tim
Date: 10 Jul 06 - 10:47 AM

ZZ was provoked into retaliation.

I would more than headbutt any guy who carressed by left nipple.


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Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Bill D
Date: 10 Jul 06 - 11:06 AM

The awkward thing about the World Cup is that it IS only every 4 years, and often requires teams to be patched together with players who don't play together every day.....then they play a few random games, with 'knockout' rounds at the end....and some of these decided by penalty kicks. Hardly a formula for deciding who is really 'best'.

Given a 4 month, round-robin tournament, with each team playing all of the others 3-4 times, and the final 8 playing for the last month, perhaps England would have won...or Brazil....or even Italy still. (And the US team 'might' have found a way to begin scoring..) But it is what it is, and a couple of slightly better bounces or balls that went IN the goal instead of off the bar---and the outcome would have been totally different.

What *I* would like to see is a tournament where all teams just try to be GOOD...with no diving, no intentional fouls and ...*horrors*...video REPLAYS to make sure about offside calls and fouls in really crucial situations. (perhaps 3 requests per game per team)....

silly of me, I know...but then I'm a dreamer who is not a life-long football fan and don't really appreciate the ubiquitous role of testosterone and National Pride uhhh...Tribal Bonding in all of this.

I saw some amazing talent and athleticism this last month, and also some tedious posturing and vicious thuggery...all in the name of the biggest 'sporting' event in the world.

What strange creatures we be.


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Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Kweku
Date: 10 Jul 06 - 11:46 AM

Another world cup has ended.

Can't wait for the next one.

BTW,has anyone heard that Materazzi was saying behind Zidane's back this in Italian, black monkey raised by Islamic terrorists. others also said the two players were insulting themselves.

The game of football and its drama,can it get any better than this.


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Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Bill D
Date: 10 Jul 06 - 11:58 AM

it makes little difference what was said...no one could hear, and it could have been settled later...but 2 Billion people could SEE the response...and that is what will be remembered.


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Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Shambles
Date: 10 Jul 06 - 12:07 PM

Not a classic tournament and one that will be remembered (if at all) for all the wrong reasons. One only hopes for future events that FIFA will address what they can and leave the rest well alone.

Three 'teams' went out on penalties where the team had the players but were let down by its management. The worst example being Argentina. I would suspect some large ammounts of German money can only explain their manager's choice of substitutes which meant they did not win their game (and the World Cup).

England certainly had the players but perhaps the management team that was good enough to qualify was never going to be good enough to provide the inspiration needed win it?

France again had the players but not the management.


I feel Italy won because although they did not have the players of the quality that they usually send but had a management team that knew how to make the most of what they had.

There were teams like Brazil and Ghana that provided a lot of entertainment but these did not make it past the quarter final stages.

The home team found they had a manager who could certainly raise the performance of the players available to him to a level that surprised everyone (except possibly me) - but it should be recognised that (like England) this level was not enough to win against their quarter final opponents. But to their credit they can still score in penalty shoot outs - if you are still awake to see this.

The impression was of a number of good sides - but with no outstanding player or strategy emerging and a lot of refereeing problems remaining to be solved. FIFA's inability to deal with things like 'simulation' and their botched attempts - probably contributed a lot to the overall unsatisfactory impression of the 2006 event.


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Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Jul 06 - 12:19 PM

But I was just wondering aloud, to what extent can you control your behaviour in public. Is like trying to sneeze and you can't because you are in public. That is not to say that I was expecting that kind of reaction from a player of Zidane calibre but remember Figo almost did the same thing . Bill D, what do you say.


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Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 10 Jul 06 - 12:32 PM

Somewhere, some mother today will have to bring her child to an A&E department of a hospital to get stitches in her son's face, result of a head butt

Not if the headbutter copies Zidane's headbutt-to-the-chest technique.

Crazy thing to do, but it did have a certain style. None of that limbs flailing rage of Rooney, or the embarrassing petulance of Beckham. Nor the flamboyance or Eric Cantona's sorties into the crowd to deal with a pest, for that matter. Precise, clinical, economical.

It appears the journalists voting for that Golden Ball award did so at half-time, before the red card incident. Just as well.


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Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Shambles
Date: 10 Jul 06 - 12:37 PM

That is not to say that I was expecting that kind of reaction from a player of Zidane calibre but remember Figo almost did the same thing . Bill D, what do you say.

Figo got away with it (just a yellow card). And whilst there is a chance that players will get away with violent retaliation - they will often take that chance and feel they have little choice.....

But perhaps the answer is that these players should not be placed in this position and should be protected more from the the initial treatment that is now dished-out to them as a matter of course?

Italian defenders especially are skilled at winding-up attacking players. The nipple tweaking, pinching, pushing and spitting is seldom penalised. Verbally questioning a player's parentage and worse - all contribute to the frustration of creative players who feel they have to find other ways of getting even. Very often getting punished for this, when the original offence is not.


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Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: GUEST,Quarcoo
Date: 10 Jul 06 - 12:38 PM

Sorry I logged out and used the back key. But the point I am trying to raise is that if someone can be punished instantly for foul play what about those who deliberately do the provoking. Human beings are not robots,so is not in all instances that you can respond rationally. Check out the look on Rooney's face as C.Ronaldo speaks to the referee(England vrs Portugal),you can see total disgust on the guy's face.


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Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Bill D
Date: 10 Jul 06 - 01:14 PM

what do I say? Well, I say that if egregious violent reactions to provocation are 'natural', then penalties are the way we tell the offenders that they need to NOT be so natural.

Theoretically, 'games' are a place to put aside certain 'natural' reactions to stress & frustration. If the Italian provoked ZZ, he should be ashamed, but he WON by pushing buttons that ZZ was already well-known for....if that sort of thing can be called 'winning'. (It didn't really affect the game outcome, but it might have).

Children learn early how to tease others and get 'reactions', but someone in Zidane's position NEEDS to learn why it is better to make the teaser frustrated by NOT responding to his remarks. If Zidane felt it was that insulting, I'd shrug if he sought out Materazzi after the match and settled it privately....I dunno, mabe in that walk down the field, he decided "this IS my final match, I just don't care what the world sees!"....but he is 34, and that image will be with him forever and color whatever he attempts to do in the rest of his life.


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Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: gnu
Date: 10 Jul 06 - 01:19 PM

Be da lard sweet sufferin Jaysus, b'ys. Good t'ing none a dees 'ere pussies ever laced up a skate an stepped on'a hoice wit' me an' buddies. I'll bet nare 'alf of 'em could play broomball wit'n maids.


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Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 10 Jul 06 - 01:30 PM

The point is, "pushing buttons" - meaning racist and personal insults - is another form of cheating and should be recognised as such. How far it is possible to stamp it out by yellow cards and so forth is another mnatter - but it should be be stigmatised as dirty play, rather than shrugged off as something players targetted in that way need to accept.

It's not just in Football it happens of course - cricket is notorious for the kind of "sledging" that Australians pioneered, and it seems to be have become accepted practice, with no efforts to crack down on it.

Perhaps rather than just penalising the offending players what is needed is to throw the responsibility for controlling the behaviours of team members on to the coaches and managers and clubs, the way they do at times when it comes to racist chants by supporters.


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Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: gnu
Date: 10 Jul 06 - 02:16 PM

Re "limbs flailing rage of Rooney"... IF that was in regard to pushing Renaldo, rather gently I might add, I agree that Rooney should have kept his composure, even when a fellow teammate, a friend, falsely accused him of doing something intentionally. However, I don't understand why Renaldo was not carded. Running up to a ref and yelling and gesturing that a ref has made a bad call is not a yellow? Sure as hell was in a number of other instances.

IF "limbs flailing rage of Rooney" was in reference to stepping on buddy's nuts, I have watched it in slo-mo a number of times. Off balance, falling forward, and trying to regain one's footing is hardly the time to orchestrate a kick in the nuts. IF I am incorrect and he ACTUALLY "DID IT", well, sign him up for a bonus, because anyone that talented deserves more money.


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Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Shambles
Date: 10 Jul 06 - 04:01 PM

Perhaps rather than just penalising the offending players what is needed is to throw the responsibility for controlling the behaviours of team members on to the coaches and managers and clubs, the way they do at times when it comes to racist chants by supporters.

A way needs to be found of actually preventing all forms foul play. The current system of cards encourages it. For example.

Had the final shoot out not been settled on the first round of five penalties - all the rest would have had to take one in turn until one was missed. But although France were supposed to be penalised by being a man short for violent play - Italy would have only been allowed to use 10 players in the shoot out, to match the 10 that France had available...........

It hardly seems fair that the side which has managed the keep all their players on the pitch are disadvantaged in shoot outs because the other side couldn't manage to keep all of their players on.


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Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 10 Jul 06 - 07:36 PM

Has there ever been a case where a penalty shoot-out has got to ten players in a team?
...............
If it's true that, as has been stated in various news items, what provoked Zidane into the headbutting was that Mazarotti had said that his mother, who had just been admitted to hospital seriously ill, was "an Algerian Whore", his action would seem quite understandable, even admirable. Some things are more important than football.


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Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: gnu
Date: 10 Jul 06 - 07:58 PM

He head-butted the man. Should he have? Not my call. And, no one else's. It was his call. Overall, he is still a fine player and a fine man in my books, and, even moreso for not taking any shit, at any cost. Like McGrath said, "Some things are more important than football."

As for what children "see", where is this Garden of Eden anyway? Where the children are sheltered from reality. And taught not to stand up for themselves when they get into the real garden.


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Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Jul 06 - 09:50 PM

The headbutt over&over&over. We can wonder at the provocation, but that was HARD!


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Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Shambles
Date: 11 Jul 06 - 03:05 AM

He head-butted the man. Should he have? Not my call. And, no one else's. It was his call. Overall, he is still a fine player and a fine man in my books, and, even moreso for not taking any shit, at any cost. Like McGrath said, "Some things are more important than football."

The intention of the insults etc, was to provoke a fellow footballer into retaliation action that would cause his effectivness to be limited. This cynical action was not prevented and the player was not protected from this provocation by the officials who finished off the job for the Italian player who was not penalised.

Whatever insults Zidane was subject to and not protected from - there was nothing preventing him from taking this up with Mataratzzi when the game had finished (and there were not so many witnesses). He would have been thought an even finer man by many more people had he been able to take this course. He wasn't and he decided to take the law in his own hands and when you do this - you place yourself squarely in the wrong by setting a poor example.

Whilst you are actually playing football (at this level) the only thing more important than football is to show respect to your fellow man. It is called sportsmanship and both parties failed in this and the officials failed in their duty to enable a fair sporting contest.

The win at all costs mentalty and the inability of FIFA to deal with this - has just about overshadowed all the other fine aspects of the game shown elsewhere in this World Cup. One hopes that the next big football event will be different..............


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Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Shambles
Date: 11 Jul 06 - 03:23 AM

Has there ever been a case where a penalty shoot-out has got to ten players in a team?

I can certainly remember a few here they went way beyond the first five.

But whether any have ever gone to 10 players in the past, is not really the point. As the current rules stand and if they are not changed - when it does come to this the side who have lost players for foul play, will not be at a disadvantage for the shoot out. Perhaps the rules should be changed so that they would be disadvantaged? And all the remaining players be able to take a penalty each (except for those on cautions)?

In theory this should encourage sides not to foul and to try and keep all of their players on the pitch. In practice such measures and the win at all costs mentalty - currently encourage teams to simulation and provocation in order to try and get the other side cautioned and sent off.


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Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: gnu
Date: 11 Jul 06 - 05:06 AM

Well said.


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