BS: Football World Cup 2006

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 21 Jun 06 - 07:03 AM

I think it was entirely understandable that losing Owen so early knocked their duck off.

presumably the match plan was built around Owen.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: alanabit
Date: 21 Jun 06 - 09:54 AM

I didn't see Joe Cole faking injury. I saw him thump in a magnificent goal and then provide an inch perfect cross for Steve Gerrard's goal. I saw him running at defenders and generally playing very well.
Of course I am disappointed with England's performance. However, the Germans are also very relieved not to be playing England on Saturday. I would say that of all the teams left, Germany is the one, which England is best equipped to beat. At times last night England kept the ball on the ground and moved it around quickly. Then in the second half, England suddenly collapsed, as they had against Sweden in the previous World Cup.
It is not unknown for England to suddenly step up a gear when they need it. They did that in 1986, 1990 and again in the last World Cup. My nagging fear is that the return of Peter Crouch will also herald the return of all that "big man in the middle crap". In fact, Michael Owen scores more often with his head. Playing the ball up in the air gives the opposition more time to see what is coming and to regroup their defence quicker.
The loss of Michael Owen is the hardest blow to bear. The Argentines and the Germans are both sick of the sight of him. You can't replace a player like that.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Shambles
Date: 21 Jun 06 - 10:04 AM

The sort of laid-back displays displayed by England and others are explained by the nature of the competition. When it is a case of win or be eliminatated, any team that is not totally committed for the whole of the time it takes to get through - will be presented with a big problem.

But when star players have waited for over 4 years to play in the final knock-out stages - it is perhaps understandable that they play within themselves in the league table stages. And play with a view to do enough to qualify but not risk being injured. When it is sudden death - it is time for the star players in the fancied teams to show the sort of do or die spirit that has been shown by some of the less fancied teams.

As has been shown by poor Michael Owen's injury - it does not take much to totally ruin all of a fine player's World Cup dreams.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: GUEST,saulgoldie
Date: 21 Jun 06 - 11:04 AM

I am enjoying watching a few hand-picked games. But I cannot even THINK of soccer without hearing "Christmas in the Trenches" by John McCutcheon about the legendary soccer match between the group of German and British soldiers across the battlefield in WWI. Can't do it. It is always there.

How we got to this period in history without figuring out how to resolve our differences without killing each other remains a mystery to me. Let's melt down the guns and solve our differences on the soccer field, and then afterwards we can all have a pint and argue about the ref calls.

Oh, well. Back to the "normal" discussion of the WC. Sorry for taking it away.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Jun 06 - 12:32 PM

Ard Mhacha is a better observer of the game than Alanabit, Joe Cole went down as if he was poleaxed, the look of disgust given by the Swede to Cole was well earned.
England are not playing well they are a very nervous outfit, in the second half panic set in whenever the Swedes attacked.
They are up against Ecuador the weakest team left in the qualifiers and should have little trouble moving into the quarter finals.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Shambles
Date: 21 Jun 06 - 12:55 PM

On the BBC Radio 2 the Scottish announcer (currently in Germany for the duration of the World cup as a freebie on the strength of the only home country' team to qualify for these finals) was saying how untrue it was that the German people had no sense of humour.

As some of them were suggesting to the announcer, that just two words were enough to reduce them all to tears of laughter.

These two words were Bertie Vogts.................

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: alanabit
Date: 21 Jun 06 - 01:02 PM

Who was known in Germany as "kleine, dumme Berti"!

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 21 Jun 06 - 01:41 PM

I'm sure Ard would be every Englishman's choice to referee their footie games.

Didn't see the Cole incident, or rather don't remember it. generally though the swedish game reminded me a bit of the Havelock Ellis's reply to a wartime tribunal 's question as to what he would a german soldier was raping his sister.
- I would interpose my body...

lot of interposing of bodies going on in that match, from both sides - but the Swedes were bigger and they were getting the better of the interposing, no question....

One part of you says - bad luck losing Owen.

the other half must surely be asking if there aren't any fully fit footballers who deserved that team place.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Chris Green
Date: 21 Jun 06 - 02:00 PM

A little off topic, but wasn't it Lytton Strachey who said that?

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Wolfgang
Date: 21 Jun 06 - 03:18 PM

As for the World Cup - Brazil, or whoever beats Brazil. (McGrath, 2002)

it's going to be Brazil or whoever beats Brazil.
...a specific prediction about this World Cup (McGrath, 2006)



Ahh. I see.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: michaelr
Date: 21 Jun 06 - 03:31 PM

If Germany keeps playing like they did yesterday against Ecuador, they have nothing to worry about against England.

cHEERS,
mICHAEL

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Shambles
Date: 21 Jun 06 - 04:57 PM

Ecuador did not have 5 of their first-choice team so England will not find it as easy to stroll to victory as the Germans did. And of course Ecuador did not mind losing too much in this game as they would most likely only face England..................

However, losing to England in this next game means they will go home.


With England - it is about time for a 'Scan Of The Match' award - they would win it every time.

Well done Ivory Coast - a 3 - 2 victory over S&M to finish. If only they had not been grouped with Argentina and Holland.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 21 Jun 06 - 08:09 PM

Yup, Wolfgang. A specific prediction about this World Cup. And last time it was a specific prediction about that World Cup, which happened to turn out to be correct.
...........................

To me it looked as if Joe Cole only went down when he had been fouled, and there's nothing wrong with that. The fact that the other bloke gave a "look of disgust" is pretty meaningless. As the saying goes "He would wouldn't he."

Joe Cole played brilliantly anyway. Any time he got the ball the game lit up, which wasn't true of too many players on either side.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Shambles
Date: 22 Jun 06 - 02:56 AM

Few qualification surprises so far.

Is anyone going to be brave enough to predict who is going to qualify and what the results will be from this afternoon's matches in Group F - out of Italy, Czech Rep, Ghana and USA?

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 22 Jun 06 - 03:48 AM

I knew it was someone on the Bloomsbury team, didn't know whether it was the inside right, or the inside left.

no wonder they were none league.

Anyway I stand corrected.

my guess is the Yanks and Italy.

As Freddie Goodwin once said about the Yanks, the thing about the Yanks is that theres over 300 million of them. My problem, as a manager,is locating eleven of them who can play football..

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Kweku
Date: 22 Jun 06 - 06:31 AM

Ghana 4 - 1 U.S.A


Amen!

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 22 Jun 06 - 08:40 AM

Ghana and Italy. (With Ghana winning against the USA and Italy drawing against the Czechs.)

And in the other group, Australia to go through, and go through. (Either way it's a Croat team winning.)

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: GUEST,Ard Mhacha
Date: 22 Jun 06 - 12:24 PM

Ghana v USA another awful game between two very poor sides, German referee Merk didn`t help matters by being over fussy, handing out yellow cards for the most trivilal tackles.
Merk gifted Ghana a penalty which left the TV commentary team running the incident over and over and not finding fault with the US defenders clean header,a very long boring 90 minutes.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Les from Hull
Date: 22 Jun 06 - 12:57 PM

Didn't see that much of the game, but did the USA exit the World Cup because of two very bad refereeing decisions? Reyna was surely fouled for Ghana's first goal and I didn't look like a penalty for the second. Of course the camera's view is different to the refs.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Shambles
Date: 22 Jun 06 - 01:00 PM

I am pleased to see Ghana qualify as their play in the 3 games so far really deserves this but in truth the USA team really have been victim to some of the very worst refereeing calls.......

Ghana's reward (in their next game against Brazil) looks to be an easy victory for Ghana.

The Czech Rep have been a little unlucky too and perhaps deserved to qualify from this group a lot more than Italy do. Italy's early goal and the Czech's second yellow card did make it a lot easier than I thought it would be for Italy - who do not look anywhere near some of the previous Italian World Cup sides.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 22 Jun 06 - 01:32 PM

Italy always looked like a team. In contrast, England seem like eleven troubled(although talented) individuals.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Shambles
Date: 22 Jun 06 - 02:04 PM

Italy always looked like a team. In contrast, England seem like eleven troubled(although talented) individuals.

I sure that poor old Sven will be blamed for this too. But in all truth the same eleven players referred to would probably appear in the teams chosen by most of England's armchair managers, journalists and ex-international footballers.

Italy did look to be more of a team I accept but one playing just about as good as they were going to get. The only consolation for England supporters is that there is obviously still a lot of room for improvement and they do have the individuals who can improve and fire the rest of the team. I suggest that the next games - when it is win or else- should be the ones for comparisons between the teams of England and Italy.....

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: GUEST,Allen in Oz
Date: 22 Jun 06 - 06:06 PM

Australia 2 Croatia 2...now that was a game ( no finesse but who cares?) Did you enjoy the part where the Croatian bloke was given a second yellow card but did not leave the field ? It was sort of indicative of the whole game really .The closest run thing since Waterloo. But all good fun

Best wishes

AD

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Shambles
Date: 22 Jun 06 - 08:04 PM

I think that we may see Australia make the final stages but I think we can safely say that the referee of this match will not.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 22 Jun 06 - 08:47 PM

Well, I had Italy and the Czechs down as a draw, but otherwise I was spot on. (And if that Czech player hadn't been sent off I think that game would probably have been a draw.)

As for referees' wrong decisions, people always seem to comment on the ones that go against the side they support and forget the ones that unfairly helped it. So far all the referees seem to have been evenhanded, even when it came to making strange decisions or cocking things up.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: alanabit
Date: 23 Jun 06 - 01:42 AM

Right. The day players stop making mistakes will be the day the refs will! Peter Crouch should certainly have seen a card - possibly even a red one - for his foul against Trinidad and Tobago. I think England would have won anyway though. They were well on top at the time.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: ard mhacha
Date: 23 Jun 06 - 04:25 AM

McGrath, Did you see the Ghana v USA game, if you didn`t please don`t comment on the worst refere I have seen in this world cup, a penalty was awarded to Ghana for a defender cleanly heading away the ball, nothing anyone else could spot only Referee Merk and this after countless re-plays of the incident, hopefully Merks last game.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Folkiedave
Date: 23 Jun 06 - 04:47 AM

I didn´t watch the Australia - Croatia game so I would be reluctant to comment on the performance of the refereee under normal circumstances.

However Graham Poll is a particular figure of hatred for (us) Sheffield United fans after the 2003 F.A.Cup semi-final when he virtually gave Arsenal the goal that won them the game. He missed a blatant foul and then got in the way of a player racing to tackle back. Arsenal went on to score. TV showed the crowd were right and Poll was wrong. I hope that is the last we hear of "Here´s a man who is hoping England don´t get to the final so he can".

The United fans forum is currently full of letters greeting his demise in this world cup. And good riddance.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Shambles
Date: 23 Jun 06 - 05:40 AM

Graham Poll was never going to get the final anyway - as his home country England, will of course be there to win it.

The fate of the French team will be decided today. They have not played well but perhaps it is too early to write them off? In 1998 they had only just scraped through from the group stage after playing very poorly. And in their first knock-out match, it was only a extra time 'Golden Goal' that saw them overcome Paraguay - but they went on to win the whole thing and in great style.

A win for them against Togo will be enough but a draw will probably not be.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Les from Hull
Date: 23 Jun 06 - 09:18 AM

Australia v Croatia was a somewhat 'vigorous' match, and so Pole was right to issue the cards he did. His spot for the handball for Australia's penalty was really very good. But he missed two more infrigements that could have resulted in penalties for Australia and ended up giving two yellow cards to a Croatian defender and failing to send him off. There has been a plenty of blatant cheating at this World Cup but Croatia seemed to take it to a new level.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Kweku
Date: 23 Jun 06 - 10:01 AM

When playing football don't expect the referee to be on your side,just go ahead and win if you think you are up to the task. it is only a weak side that blames referees.

How come Brazil have not complained about the officiating. just go ahead and win the game and stop putting your hopes on the referee.

Even though on hind-sight I might say that certain decisions of the referee are just not the best.

GHANAAAA! NEVER SAY DIE

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: alanabit
Date: 23 Jun 06 - 10:24 AM

Now Quarcoo, all you have to do is knock Brazil out of the World Cup and... Good luck anyway. It must have been a great day for you yesterday.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Kweku
Date: 23 Jun 06 - 10:43 AM

Too bad I don't drink Alanabit,because believe me, I wouldn't have got the strenght to get up his morning. Everybody is now complaining about the timing of the victory, a weekend would have been most appopriate for the celebration. It gave the cops a hell of a job to do.

But I know we will do well against Brazil. We have beaten them at the youth stage before but not at the seniotr level. we hope to emulate the achievement of the Nigerian olympic team in Atlanta '96.
we have nothing to loose.

Ghana vrs Brazil
David vrs Goliath

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Les from Hull
Date: 23 Jun 06 - 11:33 AM

Well done Ghana. If you check the latest FIFA rankings the teams that didn't progress from this group were ranked 2 (Czech Republic) and 5 (USA) in the world. Ghana were ranked 48.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 Jun 06 - 06:06 PM

Couldn't see the whole Ghana game, but from what I could see the referee was making blunders in all directions, rather than trying to skew the result one way or another. So it was a matter of incompetance rather than corruption. Fortunately the errors more or less balanced out, and the better side got through. (And the same happened in the Australia / Croatia game.)

But I'll make sure to see Ghana play Brazil. That should be a cracker.

The FIFA ratings are a joke. They must be drawn up by those kind of referees.

There are always these compilation programmes and DVDs about great sporting cock-ups, own goals and suchlike. No doubt there will be a "daftest refereeing decisions" version coming out, with Graham Poll in a starring role.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Jun 06 - 06:08 PM

Is it true Graham Poll is going to become a judge in the English courts when he gets home ?

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Shambles
Date: 24 Jun 06 - 02:48 AM

Right now we reach the stage where the real action starts.

France will now need to be watched - no matter how unconvincing they have looked up to now. And my dark horse (to go to the later stages anyway - if not to win) Switzerland are still there unbeaten and still looking hard to beat.

Time for predictions on who will be the last eight teams.

Sweden
Agentina
England
Portugal
Australia
Switzerland
Brazil
Spain

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 24 Jun 06 - 03:53 AM

Germany, for the last one.....!

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: GUEST,Ally
Date: 24 Jun 06 - 05:35 AM

England fans at it again !

Great the world sees beer bellied fans at their finest.


Around 100 arrests were made in the early hours of Saturday morning by police in Stuttgart.

Police said a number of bottles and chairs were thrown into a crowd by a rowdy group of fans from the terrace of a bar in the city's main square.

Arrests were for chair-throwing, fighting with passing Germans, breaking windows and for possession of cocaine .

A police spokesman said the fans who were arrested would go before a judge. They could be banned from the city centre.

The square is also the location of the Fans Fest, the main big screen facility in the city.

Stuttgart police spokesman Stefan Keilbach said: "English fans had been drinking all day outside a cafe in the Schlossplatz and they became aggressive, throwing chairs and bottles at other people and the police.

"Officers made 100 arrests. Nobody was hurt."

Insulting songs

Assistant Chief Constable Stephen Thomas, who's in charge of the British police officers in Germany for the World Cup told the BBC how the trouble started.

"By six o'clock there were 300 to 400 people singing racist and quite insulting songs about quite a lot of people, throwing some chairs, bottles and tables, and at that stage the German police tried to disperse them.

"A hard core of about 80 to 100 refused to go and had a standoff with police, and then a decision was taken to arrest them under the preventative powers the police here in Germany have."

No doubt more to come.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 24 Jun 06 - 06:27 AM

I guess they've seen worse.....

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: ard mhacha
Date: 24 Jun 06 - 07:48 AM

Josip Simunic when given the third yellow card by big-head Ref Graham Poll, declared that he hadn`t received as many cards at Christmas.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: ard mhacha
Date: 24 Jun 06 - 07:52 AM

I hope the good people of Stuttgart have a peaceful week-end, there is every possibilty that the citizens of that German town may be put of football for life after witnessing the beer-bellied racists scum polluting their town.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 24 Jun 06 - 08:43 AM

obviously never been to Stuttgart, it would take more than that...

The Germans REALLY love football. they are SO into the World Cup, and they were ready for anything and more, and its not going to rain on their parade.

and winning will be...just heaven..

Alanabit was telling me one time he was with some German friends after a victory, and their response ...oh well we're used to winning.


When I was there a few weeks ago though, I talked to a lot of people and I think thay have a secret little compartment in the back of their mind. i think they KNOW.....its in the bag!

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Folkiedave
Date: 24 Jun 06 - 10:21 AM

I seem to remember that Gary Lineker once said:

"Football is a game with 22 people and in the end the Germans always win".

Though this year - Argentina, Brasil and Spain looked good in the opening rounds (as well).

And I hope the Germans lock up the hooligans and keep them there to the end of the World Cup. Never mind about banning them from the City Centre.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 24 Jun 06 - 12:04 PM

absolutely...the red hot poker up the bum school of counselling to help them confront their aggressive behaviour patterns.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: GUEST,Ally
Date: 24 Jun 06 - 02:04 PM

Just saw ITN news.English fans attack German fans leaving the grounds after their victory this afternoon. Scenes of children running screaming to the chants of a World War Two victory over Germany and other abusive remarks.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Shambles
Date: 24 Jun 06 - 05:58 PM

Argentina played well were really a bit lucky and had the sort of substitutes to bring on late in the game that any team would envy. But they should have been down to 10 men against a good Mexico side. But this referee only gives Hienze a yellow card and for exactly the offence that the rule that a red card should be shown, was brought in for.

The idea was to discourage defenders from making those sort of fouls by making it clear to them that if they did - they would be sent off. This defender did take the chance and sadly got away with a foul that most probably prevented Mexico from scoring.

Having said that - the winning goal was worthy of winning any match. Argentina v Germany should be interesting.

Where were the Swedish players today? They may well have won - had they actually turned-up......................

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 24 Jun 06 - 06:15 PM

Now the Argentina Mexico match was what it's all about, producing matches like that. The kind of matches that makes you sorry there has to be a loser

The Germany Sweden open on the other hand I couldn't keep my eyes awake.   

And of course they both had daft refereeing decisions, which balanced out - eg a perfectly valid Argentine goal was ruled out for an offside that wasn't. Swings and roundabouts.

................
It was good seing the Mexican and Argentine spectators mingled in together, and no trouble.   I think segregating fans as a way of reducing violence, either at the grounds or elsewhere, may well have the reverse effect, generating confrontation rather than defusing it.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 24 Jun 06 - 06:17 PM

Now the Argentina Mexico match was what it's all about, producing matches like that. The kind of matches that makes you sorry there has to be a loser

The Germany Sweden game on the other hand I couldn't keep my eyes awake.   

And of course they both had daft refereeing decisions, which balanced out - eg a perfectly valid Argentine goal was ruled out for an offside that wasn't. Swings and roundabouts.

................
It was good seing the Mexican and Argentine spectators mingled in together, and no trouble.   I think segregating fans as a way of reducing violence, either at the grounds or elsewhere, may well have the reverse effect, generating confrontation rather than defusing it.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Les from Hull
Date: 24 Jun 06 - 06:19 PM

A player, substitute or substituted player is sent off and shown the red card if he commits any of the following seven offences:

(...)

5. denies an obvious goalscoring opportunity to an opponent moving towards the player's goal by an offence punishable by a free kick or a penalty kick...

That's the rule according to FIFA - nothing about the offender being the last man.

Still - a great game, lots of skill, spirit and energy shown by both sides.