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BS: Evacuationgate
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Subject: BS: Evacuationgate From: GUEST,Old Guy Date: 22 Jul 06 - 11:44 AM My friend and colleague Mr Bobert seems to be infatuated with the idea that his arch enemy George W Bush is solely responsible for the death and destruction caused by Hurricane Katrina in New Orleans. While being no friend of the bush administration, as claimed by Bobert so many times, I am stating that most of the blame is on the local and state authorities. They failed in their mission. Most of the loss of life could have been prevented by a mandatory evacuation during the precious 48 hours preceding landfall. The subsequent loss of property was the result of years of mismanagement, neglect and bad construction of the levee system by he federal, state and local governments. No construction project could have been completed in time, under the Bush administration, to prevent the flooding. Even so, there was a faulty levee that would have given way and flooded the city anyway. The only blame I can place on GWB, sorry as he is, That due to changes in FEMA (initiated by democrats), appointment of idiots and a drawing down of nationals guard troops and equipment due to a questionable war in Iraq, The rescue attempt, brought on by the failure to evacuate, did not go well and the subsequent response of FEMA is still not going well. FEMA is overwhelmed like it was after hurricane Andrew. If I may be permitted, I am posting a cut and paste here that sums up my position: http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=110007219 Blame Amid the Tragedy Gov. Blanco and Mayor Nagin failed their constituents. BY BOB WILLIAMS Wednesday, September 7, 2005 12:01 a.m. EDT As the devastation of Hurricane Katrina continues to shock and sadden the nation, the question on many lips is, Who is to blame for the inadequate response? As a former state legislator who represented the legislative district most impacted by the eruption of Mount St. Helens in 1980, I can fully understand and empathize with the people and public officials over the loss of life and property. Many in the media are turning their eyes toward the federal government, rather than considering the culpability of city and state officials. I am fully aware of the challenges of having a quick and responsive emergency response to a major disaster. And there is definitely a time for accountability; but what isn't fair is to dump on the federal officials and avoid those most responsible--local and state officials who failed to do their job as the first responders. The plain fact is, lives were needlessly lost in New Orleans due to the failure of Louisiana's governor, Kathleen Blanco, and the city's mayor, Ray Nagin. The primary responsibility for dealing with emergencies does not belong to the federal government. It belongs to local and state officials who are charged by law with the management of the crucial first response to disasters. First response should be carried out by local and state emergency personnel under the supervision of the state governor and his emergency operations center. The actions and inactions of Gov. Blanco and Mayor Nagin are a national disgrace due to their failure to implement the previously established evacuation plans of the state and city. Gov. Blanco and Mayor Nagin cannot claim that they were surprised by the extent of the damage and the need to evacuate so many people. Detailed written plans were already in place to evacuate more than a million people. The plans projected that 300,000 people would need transportation in the event of a hurricane like Katrina. If the plans had been implemented, thousands of lives would likely have been saved. In addition to the plans, local, state and federal officials held a simulated hurricane drill 13 months ago, in which widespread flooding supposedly trapped 300,000 people inside New Orleans. The exercise simulated the evacuation of more than a million residents. The problems identified in the simulation apparently were not solved. A year ago, as Hurricane Ivan approached, New Orleans ordered an evacuation but did not use city or school buses to help people evacuate. As a result many of the poorest citizens were unable to evacuate. Fortunately, the hurricane changed course and did not hit New Orleans, but both Gov. Blanco and Mayor Nagin acknowledged the need for a better evacuation plan. Again, they did not take corrective actions. In 1998, during a threat by Hurricane George, 14,000 people were sent to the Superdome and theft and vandalism were rampant due to inadequate security. Again, these problems were not corrected. The New Orleans contingency plan is still, as of this writing, on the city's Web site, and states: "The safe evacuation of threatened populations is one of the principle [sic] reasons for developing a Comprehensive Emergency Management Plan." But the plan was apparently ignored. Mayor Nagin was responsible for giving the order for mandatory evacuation and supervising the actual evacuation: His Office of Emergency Preparedness (not the federal government) must coordinate with the state on elements of evacuation and assist in directing the transportation of evacuees to staging areas. Mayor Nagin had to be encouraged by the governor to contact the National Hurricane Center before he finally, belatedly, issued the order for mandatory evacuation. And sadly, it apparently took a personal call from the president to urge the governor to order the mandatory evacuation. The city's evacuation plan states: "The city of New Orleans will utilize all available resources to quickly and safely evacuate threatened areas." But even though the city has enough school and transit buses to evacuate 12,000 citizens per fleet run, the mayor did not use them. To compound the problem, the buses were not moved to high ground and were flooded. The plan also states that "special arrangements will be made to evacuate persons unable to transport themselves or who require specific lifesaving assistance. Additional personnel will be recruited to assist in evacuation procedures as needed." This was not done. The evacuation plan warned that "if an evacuation order is issued without the mechanisms needed to disseminate the information to the affected persons, then we face the possibility of having large numbers of people either stranded and left to the mercy of a storm, or left in an area impacted by toxic materials." That is precisely what happened because of the mayor's failure. Instead of evacuating the people, the mayor ordered the refugees to the Superdome and Convention Center without adequate security and no provisions for food, water and sanitary conditions. As a result people died, and there was even rape committed, in these facilities. Mayor Nagin failed in his responsibility to provide public safety and to manage the orderly evacuation of the citizens of New Orleans. Now he wants to blame Gov. Blanco and the Federal Emergency Management Agency. In an emergency the first requirement is for the city's emergency center to be linked to the state emergency operations center. This was not done. The federal government does not have the authority to intervene in a state emergency without the request of a governor. President Bush declared an emergency prior to Katrina hitting New Orleans, so the only action needed for federal assistance was for Gov. Blanco to request the specific type of assistance she needed. She failed to send a timely request for specific aid. In addition, unlike the governors of New York, Oklahoma and California in past disasters, Gov. Blanco failed to take charge of the situation and ensure that the state emergency operation facility was in constant contact with Mayor Nagin and FEMA. It is likely that thousands of people died because of the failure of Gov. Blanco to implement the state plan, which mentions the possible need to evacuate up to one million people. The plan clearly gives the governor the authority for declaring an emergency, sending in state resources to the disaster area and requesting necessary federal assistance. State legislators and governors nationwide need to update their contingency plans and the operation procedures for state emergency centers. Hurricane Katrina had been forecast for days, but that will not always be the case with a disaster (think of terrorist attacks). It must be made clear that the governor and locally elected officials are in charge of the "first response." I am not attempting to excuse some of the delays in FEMA's response. Congress and the president need to take corrective action there, also. However, if citizens expect FEMA to be a first responder to terrorist attacks or other local emergencies (earthquakes, forest fires, volcanoes), they will be disappointed. The federal government's role is to offer aid upon request. The Louisiana Legislature should conduct an immediate investigation into the failures of state and local officials to implement the written emergency plans. The tragedy is not over, and real leadership in the state and local government are essential in the months to come. More importantly, the hurricane season is still upon us, and local and state officials must stay focused on the jobs for which they were elected--and not on the deadly game of passing the emergency buck. Mr. Williams is president of the Evergreen Freedom Foundation, a free market public policy research organization in Olympia, Wash. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Evacuationgate From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 22 Jul 06 - 01:32 PM Going over and over the same old ground unnecessarily uses Mudcat's computer memory. I believe this thread should be closed.
-Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: BS: Evacuationgate From: GUEST Date: 23 Jul 06 - 12:51 AM Governor Blanco issued only a voluntary evacuation order, but admitted that she received a call from the President on August 27, 2005, urging her to make it a mandatory one. He wanted as many people as possible out of the path of the storm. Despite the fact that New Orlean's own Emergency Response Guidelines call for a mandatory evacuation of the City if a strike by a Category 3 Hurricane is projected, with 72 hours advance notice to all residents, Mayor Nagin didn't order a mandatory evaluation until Sunday. Further, he only did so after Max Maxfield, the National Hurricane Director, called Nagin at his home to plead that he empty the City. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Evacuationgate From: kendall Date: 23 Jul 06 - 07:28 AM So, who is responsible for Mr. Bush's slashing of the funding to maintain the levies? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Evacuationgate From: GUEST Date: 23 Jul 06 - 11:44 AM Mr Bush is responsible. Now tell me what amount of spending by the Bush administration would have prevented the flooding? Explain which project could have been completed in time under the Bush adminstration to prevent the flooding? Everything I read says it would take 15 to 20 years to build the levees up to be Cat 5 proof. And no one knew about the underground flaw in the 17th street levee that would have failed with a 50ft levee wall built on top of it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Evacuationgate From: wysiwyg Date: 23 Jul 06 - 12:01 PM I'm disappointed. I thought this would be a thread about the Evacuationgate of LEBANON. Why can't we get word of those things as they happen, for a change, instead of months late? ~S~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Evacuationgate From: Don Firth Date: 23 Jul 06 - 01:30 PM I recall an episode of M*A*S*H in which the area around the mobile hospital was suddenly being bombarded by artillery shells. Everybody hit the deck. Somebody yelled, "We've got to evacuate!!" Hawkeye, looked out from under a table with pained expression and said, "I think I just did!" Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Evacuationgate From: PoppaGator Date: 23 Jul 06 - 06:38 PM What a load of crap ~ besides being so very out-of-date. I haven't been spending much time at Mudcat since Katrina, and even less time posting (as opposed to lurking), but as a New Orleanian caught in the middle of this bit of history, I can't let this one go by. 1) The days prior to Katrina saw the largest and most successful evacuation in recorded history of any American city. Period. Most of us ~ well over 80% of the million or so people in metropolitan New Orleans and of the additional thousands living in outlying areas to the south, east, and west ~ got out alive and in time. Gov. Blanco deserves a measure of credit for fine-tuning the "contraflow" Interstate highway routing plan that worked much more smoothly for the Katrina evacuation than for Ivan one year earlier. In hindsight, of course, there should have been better planning for the many poor folk unable to drive themselves out of town in vehicles of their own, but it's not as though any American city had ever provided mass evacuation transportation for its impoversihed citizens. 2) "72 hours before landfall," Katrina was just starting to grow into a big, dangerous mega-storm ~ it wasn't yet time to order a "mandatory evacuation," even if such a thing would ever be a practical possibility. No one seems to remember or to appreciate how suddenly a routine little cat-one hurricane blew up into such a monstrous storm. At my job, we had a regular "hurricane drill" that we executed once or twice every year ~ all computers turned off and moved up from the floor to high shelves. On the Friday before Katrina, we did NOT execute the drill, because we were not expecting any significant problems. In retrospect, we probably should have realized, because the storm did begin to get serious that Friday afternoon, but those of us who were busily working (i.e., not watching daytime TV) didn't begin to regard Katrina as a serious threat until we got home Friday evening. (For the record, the eye made landfall 8am Monday 8/29, well less than 72 hours later). 3) The decades-long refusal of Congress to fund annual requests for levee improvements, and the Corps' long history of slipshod engineering and construction practices, really can't be blamed exclusively on the current administration, or for that matter on either party to the exclusion of the other. However, GW Bush does deserve plenty of blame for the Katrina tragedy for his systematic conversion of FEMA from a professional disaster-management agency to a patronage mill for politically connected neophytes. Conscientious professionals had left FEMA en masse in the wake of severe funding cutbacks, accompanied by the appointment of clueless Bush cronies like Michael Brown as their "superiors." Bush's insistence that he remain on vacation at his ranch that week made him look pretty bad, too ~ although I'm not sure how helpful he would have been anyway. I'd go on at greater length, but I wouldn't know where to stop. So I might as well stop right here. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Evacuationgate From: GUEST Date: 23 Jul 06 - 08:51 PM Poppagator: You were there at ground Zero so I cannot argue with your observations but how much of the blame is on George Bush and how much is on the state and local authorities? And agin Why was FEMA made part of DHS and who insisted on creating DHS? I personaly saw on TV, Nagin flip flopping between a mandatory and a voluntary evacuation. NEW ORLEANS, Aug. 30 -- This exodus was even more desperate than the first. By Peter Whoriskey and Sam Coates Washington Post Staff Writers Wednesday, August 31, 2005; As murky water surged around their homes from levee breaks undetected in the immediate aftermath of Hurricane Katrina, families that had hunkered down for Monday's storm were forced Tuesday to climb first to their attics and then to their roofs in the hope of rescue by boat or helicopter. Levees in New Orleans are designed to keep water several feet higher than the city, which rests below sea level. As levee walls have been breached, water is pooling in without an outlet. About 80 percent of the Crescent City is submerged. Levees in New Orleans are designed to keep water several feet higher than the city, which rests below sea level. As levee walls have been breached, water is pooling in without an outlet. About 80 percent of the Crescent City is submerged. Katrina barreled into the Gulf Coast on Monday morning, cutting a 125-mile swath of destruction between coastal Alabama and the French Quarter in New Orleans. In the streets, cars filled with fleeing residents -- pet cages and luggage in tow -- stalled in chest-deep water. Scores of people could be seen trudging west on foot along deserted Interstate 10, lugging small packages of belongings, headed for refuge from the water that now covers 80 percent of this city. "I have nothing but me, the children and what we have on our backs," said Molly Moses, a mother of five who was rescued from the roof of her two-story house four miles from the center of New Orleans. About daybreak, as the waters reached the attic, her fiance punched a hole in the roof, where she was found about 10 a.m. Tuesday clutching her 9-month-old daughter. "We were just too busy trying to save our lives." Rising floodwaters led to a second mass evacuation Tuesday from this low-lying metropolis of terrified residents who had avoided the storm's most direct destruction when it veered slightly to the east. As the floods isolated even dry neighborhoods from authorities Tuesday, a sense of chaos enveloped much of the city. Looters smashed windows and dashed in unpursued. Smoke from two fires, apparently difficult for emergency crews to reach, rose on the horizon. Even the city's major daily newspaper had to bail out. Scores of employees of the Times-Picayune rushed out like refugees on the back of circulation trucks and wound up, after a long, sweaty ride, in Baton Rouge. Hundreds of houses could be seen with water up to the eaves. Occasionally the tops of cars were visible, bobbing to the surface. Fleets of speedboats, airboats and other water-going vessels were launched to patrol the inundated streets, searching for survivors. But the rescue teams were instructed to ignore bodies because there were no facilities to deal with them. "Our main thrust is to get people out of the water. It's going to get up into the nineties today, and get oppressively hot," said W. Parke Moore III, an assistant secretary of the state Department of Wildlife and Fisheries, who is helping coordinate the effort. "They don't have sewage facilities or water to drink. We need to get them to a safe haven, and then the Louisiana National Guard will provide shelter." After Hurricane Katrina passed Monday, many residents had been relieved to find their neighborhoods at least partially above water. But by late Monday, long after the rains had subsided, residents realized the floodwaters were still rising. An emergency management flight Monday afternoon had discovered a break in one of the levees that protect this city from flooding, but its significance was not immediately known. On Tuesday, two levees were found to have been breached, and the saucer-shaped city was filling with water. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Evacuationgate From: Bobert Date: 23 Jul 06 - 09:11 PM Thank you, P-Gator... There are folks here in Mudville who have been tryin' their hardest to make Bush look like a friggin' Boy Scout when it comes to Katrina... In my "Katrinagate" they tried to make me speak for you 'casue I mentioned that you had stopped in here on yer way to or from NO... I refused to do that for obviousd reasons, like, ahhhh, I ain't you... Then in tryin' to defend their hero they went on the "What did P-Gator say to you about NO" as if you were the end-all spokesman for every danged person who was livin' in NO when Katrina hit??? I never did figure out that strategy inh their defend-Bush arguments... It got so bad that at one point, P-Gator, you were elevated to the likes of Deep-Throat... Now don't go gettin' no big head here, my friend... But it was a rediculous line of defense, riddled with ill-thought-out logic... As for "evacuation" I have just laid down a a good amount of bandwith regerding this very topic on my "Katrinagate" thread and would invite anyone interested in exploring why historians will place the lion's share of blame at Bush's feet to check in and join in the festivities... Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: Evacuationgate From: PoppaGator Date: 23 Jul 06 - 09:46 PM GUEST, I agree that Bush is to blame for drastically emasculating FEMA (although I didn't mention the part about the DHS, which was just one aspect of the agency's downfall). All this hoo-hah about whether or not a "mandatory evecuation" should have been ordered, and when, is a lot of hot air. There is simply no way to make hundreds of thousands of private citizens pick up and move. No person, elected official or not, can wave a magic wand and cause hundreds of thousands of households to pick up and move on two or three days' notice. All a politician can hope to do by ordering a mandatory evacuation within whatever time frame some expert deems appropriate is simply to cover his ass. If nothing else has become clear from the experience of Katrina and its aftermath, it's that there are serious limitations to what government and individual officeholders can do. Before a single government-sponsored rescue mission got started, individuals were out there in their boats saving their neighbors. And LONG before the bureaucrats and politicians can agree upon which planner to pay for a "master plan," individuals who have decided to reinhabit and/or rebuild their homes have, ipso facto, begun the decision-making process that is determining the future of each of their neighborhoods. Aside from their function of disbursing funds (which has been less than equitable, or even rational), most of our politicians have been about as useful as tits on a bull. This may have been true all along, but it's become more evident than ever since we've been in true crisis mode. Just as various officials on all levels deserve only limited credit for the positive aspects of the recovery, they don't really deserve so much blame for what happened. Believe me, I despise Bush about as much as anyone, and I do hold him responsible for the abysmally slow and inadequate federal response, but he didn't make the levees break and it's stupid to blame him for everything that happened. Douglas Brinkley's book is probably the best summation of what happened in New Orleans during and after Katrina, and ought to be required reading for anyone who wants to pontificate on the subject. However, his reporting is definitely tainted by his intense personal dislike for Mayor Nagin, especially in the section excerpted in Vanity Fair, and even moreso in the brief passages lifted out of context from the magazine and published during the recent mayoral campaign. His venomous tone was so evident that he probably provoked a backlash, and may be responsible for gaining Nagin enough sympathy to get reelected, which will probably prove to have been an unfortunate deveopment... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Evacuationgate From: Charley Noble Date: 23 Jul 06 - 10:01 PM I still have haunting memories of all those school buses in New Orleans flooded in their lots, since no one in authority ordered them utilized in time to help evacuate residents. There's plenty of blame to go around, but few people have the stomach to pin it on those responsible. Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: BS: Evacuationgate From: Bobert Date: 23 Jul 06 - 11:28 PM Well, Charlie, I have the stomach fir it... In the past when major diasters crippled entire regions we had FEMA.... When Katrina we had a completely gutted FEMA... Bush used FEMA as a big ol' slush fund to fund the DHS and his war in Iraq... He didn't cover his rear or his flanks and was jus' hopion' that nuthin' would hit that would reveal how badly he was "protecting the American people"... ...then Katrina... That's the bottom line... Yeah, you can say that the school buses should have done this or that but when a local governemnt is completely overwhelmed by a disaster it takes more than some staffers "evacuation plan"... It takes amssive resources to get the job done... That is what FEAM used to be all about until it was gutted by Bush... Make no bones about this... The Bush apologists will go to their grave tryin' to pin this on anyopne but Bush but this was Bush's battle to loose and he lost it big time... Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: Evacuationgate From: GUEST Date: 24 Jul 06 - 12:05 AM Yeah, in the past like when Andrew overwhelmed FEMA. Before Iraq and the Democrat demands for creating DHS and making FEMA part of it. In the real world: Hurricanes stall corruption probe Investigation of Morial's allies, uncle still on Letten warns those thinking of fleeing By Frank Donze Staff writer While the double whammy of monster hurricanes will slow the federal probe of corruption in former Mayor Marc Morial's administration and other government agencies, the multi-layered investigation is alive and well, according to U.S. Attorney Jim Letten. "A lot of New Orleans' present woes are due, to a significant degree, to corruption over generations,'' Letten said during a recent interview. "Therefore, we recognize that at this time, pursuing corruption cases is more important than ever.''........ .........Among the high-profile cases in the works before Katrina effectively shut down the city are: The grand jury indictment in June of three Morial allies -- restaurateur Stan "Pampy" Barre, former city property management director Kerry DeCay and businessman Reginald Walker -- for allegedly skimming hundreds of thousands of dollars from an $81 million energy-management contract with Johnson Controls of Milwaukee. A fourth major player, Johnson Controls project manager Terry Songy, also has been charged but is cooperating with the government. Six subcontractors also face charges in the scheme. The indictment in August of Morial's uncle, Glenn Haydel, on charges of theft, wire fraud and money laundering. Haydel, who enjoyed a lucrative contract to manage the Regional Transit Authority during his nephew's years at City Hall, is accused of orchestrating a scheme to fleece the RTA of more than a half-million dollars. Barre, DeCay, Walker and Haydel all have pleaded innocent, pledging to defend themselves vigorously. Others who have been touched by the far-ranging probe include Morial's former sanitation director Lynn Wiltz and several Morial insiders, including the former mayor's brother, Jacques Morial; lawyer Roy Rodney; longtime political consultant Bill Schultz; Sam Kogos, a fixture on many of the city's and School Board's lucrative insurance committees; and Ray Valdes, a financier who handled several large-scale lease deals........ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Evacuationgate From: GUEST Date: 24 Jul 06 - 01:58 AM Flashback to the real world: "John Kerry fought to establish the Department of Homeland Security. George Bush opposed it for almost a year after 9/11." |
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Subject: RE: BS: Evacuationgate From: Bobert Date: 24 Jul 06 - 08:32 AM Yes, the dems pushed thru the Dapartment of Homeland Security but saying the Dems demanded that FEMA be demoted and gutted is neither true or accurate... Stick with the real facts, GUEST... Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: Evacuationgate From: GUEST Date: 26 Jul 06 - 12:41 AM The facts are that the dems insisted on creating DHS and then they insisted on making FEMA part of DHS. Now they are insisting on taking FEMA out of DHS because it shouldn't be in there. Now they realize they were wrong but continue to blame GWB because FEMA can't function effectively as part of DHS even if Superman or Bobert were running it. "Senator Hillary Rodham is introducing legislation to restore FEMA to cabinet-level independent federal agency status to ensure that it has the authority it needs to effectively manage recovery efforts" |
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Subject: RE: BS: Evacuationgate From: GUEST Date: 26 Jul 06 - 01:20 AM http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2005-09-26-rita_x.htm Evacuation credited for saving lives CREOLE, La. (AP) While much of Texas and Louisiana dodged the worst of Hurricane Rita, the damage to some small, rural towns was virtually complete and the storm was being blamed on new deaths long after it moved away. As temperatures climbed well into the 90s and the heat index was near 106 degrees Monday, the damage from the storm was evident in small communities in southwest Louisiana and southeast Texas. "East Texas needs everyone's attention this hour, right now, and it doesn't matter whether it's the state or FEMA or the Corps of Engineers. I don't really care whose fault it is. It needs help now," said U.S. Rep. Kevin Brady. "These communities are the last to complain, but they've reached the end." The number of deaths rose to nine Monday when the bodies of five people were discovered in a Beaumont apartment. A man, his girlfriend's three children and their aunt apparently were overcome by carbon monoxide from a generator they used to power fans to cool their home. (Related item:Five die using generator) While residents of the Texas refinery towns of Beaumont, Port Arthur and Orange were blocked from returning to their homes because of the danger of debris-choked streets and downed power lines, authorities in Louisiana were unable to keep bayou residents from venturing in by boat to see if Rita wrecked their homes. (Related video:Residents returning) Debris was strewn for miles over Cameron Parish, a coastal, sparsely populated town next to the Texas line. Seawater pushed as far as 20 miles inland, drowning acres of rice, sugarcane fields and pasture. "This is the most damaged area I've seen in the state, the worst," Army Lt. Gen. Russel Honore said of Cameron Parish. "I didn't see anything from Katrina, except in Mississippi, that was as bad." At a makeshift emergency operations center at a national wildlife refuge, Randy Gary answered a stream of questions from residents trying to find out about their homes or camps. As for his house, he hadn't been able to get to the town of Cameron, but he got an assessment. "There's nothing but a clear lot," he said. His oyster boats and pontoon boats also had disappeared, a further slap from Rita to his livelihood as a fisherman. The oyster beds he fishes likely are devastated, even if he had the boats to get to them. But he was still smiling Monday. "What else we gonna do?" he said, pledging to rebuild his shattered home and work. "It's my life. It's what I do." An estimated 80% of the buildings in the Louisiana town of Cameron, population 1,900, were leveled. Farther inland, half of Creole, population 1,500, was left in splinters. In New Orleans, the official reopening of the city was back on track as the mayor welcomed residents back to the Algiers neighborhood, where they found a curfew, limited services and no critical care hospital services. The Army Corps of Engineers continued pumping water from the Ninth Ward back into the Industrial Canal. It expects to have the water out by the weekend, said Mitch Frazier, an Army Corps spokesman. President Bush planned to get a personal report Tuesday with a visit to Beaumont and Lake Charles, La., about 55 miles to the east, traveling between the two cities by helicopter and getting an aerial view of the damage from the Saturday storm that socked the region with winds topping 120 mph. (Related story:Bush urges energy conservation) If the power knocked out by the storm and oppressive heat weren't enough, it was the ravenous mosquitoes invading their storm-damaged home north of Vidor, Texas, that convinced Harry Smith, his wife and two teenage boys to get out. With their car disabled by a transmission problem, they hitchhiked more than 10 miles to a staging area for teams from the Federal Emergency Management Agency in hopes of finding shelter. Authorities put them on a bus to San Antonio with a few dozen other storm victims. "It can't be any worse than here," said Smith, 49, a pipefitter, relieved to be going somewhere to get out of the heat and insects. "This is the worst storm I've seen in the 46 years I've lived here." For people who didn't evacuate before Rita hit and chose to stay in the primitive conditions, teams from FEMA fanned out Monday over a nine-county area of East Texas to deliver food and water and ice. Gov. Rick Perry said the state was projecting Rita's total damage at $8 billion. The mayors of the Louisiana towns of Sulphur and Vinton pleaded with residents to stay away until the sewage systems could be repaired, power could be turned on and hospitals and emergency services could be restored. "Right now, there's very little to come back to," said Sulphur Mayor Ron LeLeux, of his town where every major power transmission line was destroyed, uprooted trees split houses in two and splintered trees left most streets impassable. Vinton Mayor David Riggins begged people over the radio not to return home yet because it was straining the food and water supplies he needed for fire, police and emergency crews. Authorities said at least 16 Texas oil refineries remained shut because of Rita. A refinery in Port Arthur and one in Beaumont were without power, and a second Port Arthur refinery was damaged and could remain out of service for two to four weeks. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Evacuationgate From: PoppaGator Date: 26 Jul 06 - 02:18 PM Random thoughts/retorts: ~ The famously-photographed flooded school buses were placed on relatively high ground, in an area that had never flooded previously. Local authorities honestly thought they'd be avalable if needed; they were wrong, of course, but understandably so. The degree of devastation resulting from Katrina was simply WAY beyond what most people forsaw, or could even imagine ~ private individuals as well as public officials. In that sense, almost everyone shares a (small) degree of blame. The real controversy lies in who is most seriously culpable for this fiasco. ~ Regardless of the various manoevers by Congresspersons of both parties in regard to DHS and FEMA, the executive branch (that is, the Bush administration) alone is clearly responsible for downsizing FEMA and turning it into a patronage mill. There was a Congressional investigation BEFORE Katrina into the exodus of professional personnel from the agency, and there is plenty of testimony on record that essential jobs were cut willy-nilly, and that unqualified and clueless individuals were placed in positions of authority, with a primary mission of implementing further cuts in personnel and activities, and of questioning and preventing longtime FEMA employees from performing tasks that had previously been considered their "duties". The phrase "politically connected neophytes" is a direct quote from a former high-level FEMA manager's testimony, someone who had resigned in protest of the administration's systematic disassembly of his agency. ~ FEMA's response to Hurricane Andrew may have been relatively inadequate in the view of some (especially, of course, to affected residents whose needs were not addressed as quickly as they should have been), but FEMA did a much better job in the wake of Andrew than what happened after Katrina. At the very least, they didn't need three or four days after massive distaster had already struck before even acknowledging that their services might be required. ~ Whatever the sins of the Morial mayoral administration (and there were many, I'm sure, although some of the charges may indeed be exaggerated by their many political enemies), NO local official had ANYTHING to do with Congress' annual refusal to fund requests for hurricane protection projects, nor with the many instances of slipshod design and construction on the levee system. Certainly, most of the individuals guilty of levee-related corruption and/or incompetance were residents of this area (some life-long Louisianans, but many others short-term residents temporarily stationed here) and therefore perhaps caught up in a culture of corruption and laxity. However, virtually all of them have been, by definition, FEDERAL employees and contractors, because the levee system is designed, built, maintained, and supervised by a Federal entity, the US Army Corps of Engineers. The fact that such federal personnel may have been living in the greater New Orleans area, or anywhere in Louisiana, does NOT mean that their shortcomings can be blamed upon local and state governments. It is the Federal system that failed; the Corps and its subcontractors are resonsible for years of prior shortcomings that led to the levee failures, and it is clearly the Bush administration that is primarily responsible for the disfunctional response after the levees had been breached. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Evacuationgate From: GUEST Date: 26 Jul 06 - 02:36 PM "the levee system is designed, built, maintained, and supervised by a Federal entity," Report to the Goveners Office on media coverage of the New Orleans Levee Board. The Board of Comissioners of the Orleans Levee District New Orleans, La. PROTECTING YOU AND YOUR FAMILY Response to the NBC Nightly News investigative report of 9/14/05 s the Orleans Levee Board doing its job? Critics allege corruption, charge the board with wasteful spending The unveiling of the Mardi Gras Fountain was celebrated this year in typical New Orleans style. The cost of $2.4 million was paid by the Orleans Levee Board, the state agency whose main job is to protect the levees surrounding New Orleans -- the same levees that failed after Katrina hit.... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Evacuationgate From: Bobert Date: 26 Jul 06 - 09:43 PM BS, GUEST... The main responsibility of maintaining the levee system is federal, not state or local... You still don't get it, do you??? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Evacuationgate From: GUEST Date: 27 Jul 06 - 12:37 AM Bobert: the only thing I don't get is why you keep spouting your Washington Post version of reality. What could Bush have done during his administration to prevent the failure of the levee system? Who was unaware that the levees could not stand a cat 5 hurricane? Who failed to get the people out of there? Who sent people to the superdome when it was known from a previous exercise that it was not suitable? Amtrak Agrees to Help Evacuate New Orleans Residents in Case of Major Hurricane Los Angeles Times, 9/13/2005 Total Community Action, a New Orleans faith-based organization, reportedly secures promises from Amtrak to help evacuate the city's carless residents in the event of a major hurricane. Washington Post, 9/11/2005: Last Amtrak Train Leaves New Orleans, Carrying Equipment, but no Passengers. The last Amtrak train leaves New Orleans, with equipment—but no passengers. Earlier, Amtrak decided to run a nonscheduled train from New Orleans to Macomb Mississippi to move equipment out of harm's way. Amtrak representative Cliff Black will later assert that Amtrak offered to take New Orleans evacuees on the train, which has room for several hundred passengers, but the city declined the offer. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Evacuationgate From: GUEST Date: 27 Jul 06 - 02:07 AM PGator: You seem like a reasonable man, not prone to rants and quick judgements. Tell me what GWB could have done to prevent the levee system from failing? Tell me what amount of money spent on FEMA and or the levee system would have prevented the horrible situation that developed after the levees failed? GWB's fault lies in changes made to FEMA when it was incorporated into DHS. It was not his idea to make FEMA part of DHS in the first place. If the Dems had shut up with their "Bush wont do this" and "Bush refuses to do that" political election posturing crap, FEMA would have remained the way it was and functioned the way it did before DHS was demanded by the Democrats that always have to have a beef with GWB no matter what he does. I say a large pert of that fault lies with GWB as far as the response after the disaster. I say that very little of responsibility of the disaster itself belongs to GWB. I also say that a large number of people just don't like GWB and they use every oppertunity to make him look as bad as possible as their only recourse. Revenge for winning the 2000 and 2004 election. I am not a friend or supporter of GWB. I do not agree with a lot of his policys but the best defense that the Bush haters have is to call any body that disagrees with them, Bush supporters. That is as stupid as me accusing anybody that disagrees with me a Nagin supporter or a Blanco supporter. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Evacuationgate From: GUEST,Buck Date: 27 Jul 06 - 09:35 AM There is a reason why Louisiana is the first in everything bad and the last in everything good; APATHY. As a Black man, I am sick and tired of how the Democrat party has literally brainwashed Blacks into voting for them in every election, whether it's local, state, or federal. I'm sick of the way they 'race-bait'. Because everytime you bring in the racial element, the thinking process stops. I agree, if a white man said "Let's make New Orleans a 'vanilla city' the Jesse Jacksons, Al Sharptons, and the NAACPs would cry racism. There is an unspoken truth when it comes to Louisiana politics and who really runs the show behind the scenes. We Louisianians call it the 'GOOD OL' BOY NETWORK'. It is the prominent families in Louisiana who own the politicians (both parties, and both black and white)I just see the world as it appears, beyond the white and the black (no pun intended). I'm just sick and tired of this race 'thang' always being shoved in our faces. This is what the powers that be (ESTABLISHMENT) thrives on. Anything that can divide: race, economic status, sex, religion, political affiliation, blue state, red state, etc. And we as a society get caught up in these phony debates while the real criminals go unnoticed. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Evacuationgate From: GUEST,Old Guy Date: 29 Jul 06 - 11:12 AM washingtonpost.com The Steady Buildup to a City's Chaos Confusion Reigned At Every Level Of Government By Susan B. Glasser and Michael Grunwald Washington Post Staff Writers September 11, 2005 "...In reality, Nagin's advisers never intended to follow that plan -- and knew many residents would stay behind. "We always knew we did not have the means to evacuate the city," said Terry Ebbert, the sharp-tongued city director of emergency management. ..." |
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Subject: RE: BS: Evacuationgate From: Bobert Date: 29 Jul 06 - 11:45 AM Well said, Buck... Yeap, that's 'bout sums it up: the best democrarcy that money can buy... And make no bones about it, unless there is a fundmental change in our culture, if the Dems take back Congress, they will be the ones gettin' the lion's share of corporate America's payola just as the Repubs are now... No doubt about it... And, yeah, both political parties use divisive issues in order to raise funds... Vote Green... Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: Evacuationgate From: GUEST,Old Guy Date: 29 Jul 06 - 12:53 PM That's what I am saying. It's more like a battle between two gangs than government. The crap you hear just makes you run to one side or the other and fight for your side. I try to figure out what is good and bad from both sides rather than carrying a pitchfork in one hand and a torch in the other. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Evacuationgate From: Bobert Date: 29 Jul 06 - 12:56 PM Oh??? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Evacuationgate From: PoppaGator Date: 31 Jul 06 - 02:37 PM Haven't checked back here for a few days. Let me respond to the unidentified GUEST who addressed me personally: Tell me what GWB could have done to prevent the levee system from failing? Nothing. Although, perhaps, if he had taken a greater interest than previous administrations in our safety immediately upon taking office in 2001, the levees might have ben sufficiently improved before Katrina hit. But how likely would that have been? Tell me what amount of money spent on FEMA and or the levee system would have prevented the horrible situation that developed after the levees failed? It's not just a question of money, except indirectly insofar as money budgeted for "emergency management" was systematically cut, with the remaining assets used to pay the salaries of toadies qualified only to make further cuts to the agency's operations, not to actually manage emergencies. Specifically, I hold Bush (and his puppetmaster Cheney) responsible for appointing the clueless Michael Brown, who claimed not to know about the people suffering and dying at the Convention Center, at a time when everyone in the world with a TV set could see with their own eyes what was going on. Hell, people in China knew more about the situation than Michael Brown, who seemed mainly to be concerned about the designer labels and price tags on his suits, and about the increased auto traffic in Baton Rouge interfering with his high-ticket restaurant meals. Aside from that, you and I are pretty much in agreement. I've always been an "independent" voter, not a straight-party-ticket person. It's true, given my political opinions and instincts, that I usually prefer the Democratic candidiate to the Republican in a given election, but I have voted for plenty of Republicans, especially in local and state elections, and especially a few years back when Louisiana began to actually have a two-party system, and the newly reborn Republican party was offering "reform" alternatives to corrupt estabishments maintained by the then-ascendant "conservative Democrats" (usually, guys who would have been Republicans anywhere outside the one-party "Solid South"). I've never had unquestioning faith in the Democratic Party, and believe that both parties harbor corrupt and/or incompetant officials. However, my current opinion is that the neoconservative movement now in control of the Republican party is so profoundly evil that I have become ~ temporarily, I hope ~ one of those yellow-dog Democrats who will vote for anyone running against a Republican, certainly in any federal election (for congress & senate as well as president). It's unfortunate, since part of the traditional Republican vision ~ the libertarian, "hands-off" stance ~ is closer to my anarcho-pacifist philosophy than the plan-everything, "Big Brother" values of some Democrats. But I think it's absolutely necessary, right now, to take control of Congress out of the hands of the current proprietors of the GOP franchise. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Evacuationgate From: GUEST,Old Guy Date: 31 Jul 06 - 02:52 PM You are truly a fair person and a free thinker. Yes there is a dark current running throuh the Republican party right now. But I see the Democratic party as a bunch of scatterbrains who can only yell "wrong" about everything GWB does. That's why I say we would be better off with no plotitcal parties. The political pendulum swings both ways. Right now it is on the Republican side and it will surely swing to the Democratic side soon. All the Rush Limbaughs in the world can't stop it. |
