BS: Bin Laden dead or alive?

Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 16 Oct 06 - 12:10 AM

QED

Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive?
From: Old Guy
Date: 16 Oct 06 - 12:06 AM

Pol Pot gave Mao, Stalin and Hitler a run for their money in the criminally-insane-dictator category. During his four-year Khmer Rouge regime in Cambodia, an estimated 1.7 million to 2 million people died at his and his henchmen's urging.

Mao Tse-tung's policies and actions led to the deaths of nearly 77 million of his countrymen, surpassing those killed by Nazi Party founder Adolf Hitler and Soviet Premier Josef Stalin.

Mao's butchery "exceeds the 61,911,000 murdered by the Soviet Union 1917-1987, with Hitler far behind at 20,946,000 wiped out (from) 1933-1945," he said.

The Chinese communist leader's toll is higher than the 34.1 million combat deaths in "all wars between 1900 and 1987," including World Wars I and II, Vietnam, Korea, and the Mexican and Russian Revolutions.

Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive?
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Oct 06 - 04:22 PM

Garbage bin Laden to the top with this shit.

Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive?
From: Old Guy
Date: 15 Oct 06 - 03:56 AM

It's been over two weeks since this story broke and no tape from Bin Laden.

He must be dead.

Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 09 Oct 06 - 02:26 PM

Wrong.

In the 20th century, by far the most people were killed by Stalin, Hitler and Mao. Which religion was at fault?

Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive?
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Oct 06 - 11:43 PM

He's either dead or sipping rum tall drinks on some private island where he can't be found. Otherwise he couldn't resist showing his face every time a large number of his enemies were killed.

Religion is the most destructive thing ever invented.

Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive?
From: Ebbie
Date: 08 Oct 06 - 01:40 PM

Speaking of al Quaeda

KABUL, Afghanistan -       NATO's top commander in       Afghanistan said Sunday the country was at a tipping point and warned Afghans would likely switch their allegiance to resurgent Taliban militants if there are no visible improvements in people's lives in the next six months.

Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 08 Oct 06 - 01:05 PM

That's "unilateral".


And, Teribus, please remember what you said today when you're tempted to tell us how Bill Clinton did nothing to combat al Qaeda.

Thanks so much.

Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 08 Oct 06 - 11:31 AM

Teribus--

Sorry, you're behind the times. These days Clinton is not being criticized for immediately taking direct "unlateral military action" in 1998---but for not doing so.   Accused of this by such authoritative sources as TV docudramas--and you know they're always totally objective.

It was fascinating to hear your view on the subject.

But welcome back anyway.

.

Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive?
From: akenaton
Date: 07 Oct 06 - 05:33 PM

Where have you been Teribus??...Visiting another galaxy perhaps?

Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive?
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 07 Oct 06 - 09:36 AM

Yes watched that report ard. Voices on the ground are rarely listened to.

Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive?
From: ard mhacha
Date: 07 Oct 06 - 08:52 AM

A report on Channel a [UK] showed the citizens of Baghdad prisoners in their own homesm there is mass emigration to Syria and Jordan for those who can afford to get out.
The reporter`s interview with Baghdad citizens found that many previously in opposition to Saddam Hussein would willingly go back to that period before the US invasion,complete despair with little hope of an end to the conflict was the finding.

Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive?
From: Dave (the ancient mariner)
Date: 07 Oct 06 - 08:16 AM

Actually I post information to allow people to make up their own minds, rather than be bullied into thinking in one direction like you do lad. Big difference, persuaded by reason and truth or argued to death by idiots?.... etc etc... Nuff said.

Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive?
From: Teribus
Date: 07 Oct 06 - 07:19 AM

"late unlamented Teribus....Ake"

The rumours of my demise have been greatly exaggerated.

As for Bin Laden being dead or alive? The issue is irrelevant and has been since he was forced into hiding four years ago.

As for Iraq, people like Ake refuse to acknowledge that it was NOT GWB, or his administration, who identified Iraq as being likely to pose the greatest indirect threat to the US. That was the evaluation carried out by US Intelligence Services during the last term of the Clinton Administration. Post 9/11 it was the joint house security committee tasked with evaluating threat potential against the US that re-afirmed that earlier evaluation. On receiving the advice of this Committee, did GWB immediately opt for unilateral military action, as Clinton did in 1998? No he did not he took his case to the United Nations, who did what they do best - Nothing (Rwanda, Bosnia, Darfur - all classic examples of UN resolve and determination). Current UN mandated operations in Afghanistan and in Iraq are both legal and necessary.

Have terrorist attacks around the world increased or decreased? Sorry Ake, they have decreased.

Is the world a safer place to live in? The findings of a UN sponsored study by Uppsala and Vancouver Universities show that the world is a safer place to live the periods used for comparison were from the end of the Second World War up until the collapse of Communist Soviet Russia and the period since.

Ake continues to trot out the same inaccurate, incorrect and ill informed twaddle that I have challenged in the past - Having done so, I see no need in repeating the exercise.

Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive?
From: Old Guy
Date: 06 Oct 06 - 12:48 PM

Roll up yer window and hold yer nose.

Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive?
From: Greg F.
Date: 29 Sep 06 - 09:06 AM

Old guy. Stinkin' to high heaven.

Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive?
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Sep 06 - 04:12 AM

Who is?.

Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive?
From: Old Guy
Date: 28 Sep 06 - 06:20 PM

He's a dead skunk in the middle of the road. I hope.

Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive?
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Sep 06 - 04:56 PM

That`s Wolfgang he swims with the tide.

Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive?
From: akenaton
Date: 28 Sep 06 - 04:41 PM

Come on Wolfgang there is a vast difference between Dave's and Greg's use of cut and paste.
Occasionally it is helpful to use cut and paste to clarify some point you are trying to make. I have done so myself from time to time, but Dave uses cut and paste like a blunt instrument. A weapon to batter his opponents into submission.
A tactic no doubt picked up from the late unlamented Teribus....Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive?
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Sep 06 - 09:33 AM

We have ways of making you read,

Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive?
From: Wolfgang
Date: 28 Sep 06 - 08:10 AM

I see, if Greg posts an Associated Press article that's a valuable contribution to the discussion, but if Dave posts an Associated Press article it shows his gullibility.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive?
From: akenaton
Date: 27 Sep 06 - 06:52 PM

Dave must be about the only person left who sincerely believes the war in Iraq is achieving anything positive.

But the amount of cut and paste crap which he is allowed to contribute is a disgrace.

I have no problem with people who hold a different point of view to my own and am interested to hear their reasoned arguments, but these screeds of second hand distortions and spin serve no purpose other than to show the gullibility of the poster....Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive?
From: GUEST,IBO
Date: 27 Sep 06 - 06:03 PM

I DIDNT KNOW THAT DEAD OR ALIVE HAD A SONG OUT CALLED BIN LADEN.I BET IT BOMBED IN THE CHARTS

Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive?
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Sep 06 - 04:28 PM

Oh dear Dave has finally cracked.

Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive?
From: Dave (the ancient mariner)
Date: 27 Sep 06 - 02:50 PM

AP INTERVIEW: Iraq is getting more respect now that it has an elected government, foreign minister says
The Associated Press

Published: September 26, 2006


UNITED NATIONS Iraq is getting more respect now that it has an elected government. Instead of just diplomatic niceties, Iraq was a full participant in dozens of meetings at the U.N. General Assembly.

"Now it's business," said Foreign Minister Hoshyar Zebari.

As the annual meeting of the world's leaders heads to its finale on Wednesday, the Iraqi minister said that since he started attending in 2003 he has never been busier.

"This is a good sign because Iraq really, despite the bad news, the negative news coming out of Baghdad, is moving steadily toward a functional state," he said in an interview Monday with the Associated Press.

Zebari recalled that as foreign minister first in the U.S.-apponted Iraqi Governing Council and then in the transitional government, there would be "nice words, nice exchanges" on the fringes of the General Assembly and other international meeting. But since Iraq's elections and the selection in April of a constitutional government, "the days of diplomatic niceties" are over.

With a smile of satisfaction, Zebari said, "it's more business we are in fact discussing," and he reeled off examples.

On the sidelines of the General Assembly, he said, "we had a good meeting of Iraq's neighboring countries ... and we agreed on some important steps."

First, Zebari said, Iran demanded that future meetings of Iraq's neighboring countries had to be "with the full consent, approval and need of the Iraqi government" which was not the case in the past.

"Second, we demanded that the next meeting of Iraq's neighboring countries take place in Baghdad, as a sign to stand with the Iraqi people, to show solidarity and support, as the Arab foreign ministers did when they went to Beirut during the war... And they approved it which was a good thing," he said.

At a meeting with Syria's Foreign Minister Walid Moallem, attended by Iraqi President Jalil Talabani, Zebari said "we had a very frank, open discussions about how to go forward."

The Iraqis told Moallem "if you want to improve relations and show goodwill ... one of the simplest steps is for you to come and visit Baghdad ... because in the past three years, almost each and every Iraqi official has visited you, and no Syrian officials have come to Baghdad," the foreign minister said. "It will help smooth, let's say, relations, and we will welcome you. You'll be respected in Iraq by all Iraqis."

What was the Syrian minister's response? "He said he accepted the idea, I think, and we will wait to see when that takes place," Zebari said.

At every meeting, Zebari said, he delivered the same appeal — to help stabilize the country and end the upsurge in violence that many say has pushed the country to the brink of civil war.

Iraq is "the key to stability in the region," he said. "That's why we have been calling on all the parties, all the states, that it is in you interest to help us to stabilize the situation. Failure in Iraq will affect you directly. Security vacuum in Iraq will not be any benefit."

Zebari accused some of Iraq's neighbors — whom he did not name — of fomenting violence and terrorist acts, and of putting short-term interests and a desire to settle "certain scores" ahead of long-term peace and stability in the region.

Recently in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia, there was a meeting of interior ministers of Iraq and its neighboring countries, and they signed a security protocol to coordinate and exchange information and set up hotlines, he said.

Despite this, Zebari said, "I would say unfortunately, some of our neighbors have not been helpful."

On the eve of the General Assembly, 31 countries attended a meeting of the Compact for Iraq, a five-year plan to ensure Iraq's government has funds to survive and enact key political and economic reforms.

Zebari called it "an important international event" but said that unless Iraq improves security and accelerates political reconciliation "it would be extremely difficult to attract foreign investments or foreign companies."

"That is the challenge — and the government is committed to do that," he said.

Nonetheless, Zebari said, despite the instability and violence, the new Iraqi government has taken other actions that demonstrate its authority.

"We wanted to help the Jordanian government and economy, so we signed an oil agreement to provide them with crude oil at preferential prices to support the Jordanian need for fuel," he said. "This really was an eye-opener to many countries in the region that despite everything we are going through, Iraq is still capable, able to help."

When the Israeli-Hezbollah war began in Lebanon in July, Zebari said Iraq donated US$35 million (€27.6 million) in emergency aid to the Lebanese government which "embarrassed many other Arab countries to raise their bid."

Iraq has also reached agreements with Turkey to boost trade and open new border crossings, he said, and it will sign a trade agreement with the European Union.

"Even with the Iranians, we've signed an oil agreement for us to give them crude for one of their refineries which is close to Basra, while they will compensate us in the Gulf, to increase our export," Zebari said.

UNITED NATIONS Iraq is getting more respect now that it has an elected government. Instead of just diplomatic niceties, Iraq was a full participant in dozens of meetings at the U.N. General Assembly.

"Now it's business," said Foreign Minister Hoshyar Zebari.

As the annual meeting of the world's leaders heads to its finale on Wednesday, the Iraqi minister said that since he started attending in 2003 he has never been busier.

"This is a good sign because Iraq really, despite the bad news, the negative news coming out of Baghdad, is moving steadily toward a functional state," he said in an interview Monday with the Associated Press.

Zebari recalled that as foreign minister first in the U.S.-apponted Iraqi Governing Council and then in the transitional government, there would be "nice words, nice exchanges" on the fringes of the General Assembly and other international meeting. But since Iraq's elections and the selection in April of a constitutional government, "the days of diplomatic niceties" are over.

With a smile of satisfaction, Zebari said, "it's more business we are in fact discussing," and he reeled off examples.

On the sidelines of the General Assembly, he said, "we had a good meeting of Iraq's neighboring countries ... and we agreed on some important steps."

First, Zebari said, Iran demanded that future meetings of Iraq's neighboring countries had to be "with the full consent, approval and need of the Iraqi government" which was not the case in the past.

"Second, we demanded that the next meeting of Iraq's neighboring countries take place in Baghdad, as a sign to stand with the Iraqi people, to show solidarity and support, as the Arab foreign ministers did when they went to Beirut during the war... And they approved it which was a good thing," he said.

At a meeting with Syria's Foreign Minister Walid Moallem, attended by Iraqi President Jalil Talabani, Zebari said "we had a very frank, open discussions about how to go forward."

The Iraqis told Moallem "if you want to improve relations and show goodwill ... one of the simplest steps is for you to come and visit Baghdad ... because in the past three years, almost each and every Iraqi official has visited you, and no Syrian officials have come to Baghdad," the foreign minister said. "It will help smooth, let's say, relations, and we will welcome you. You'll be respected in Iraq by all Iraqis."

What was the Syrian minister's response? "He said he accepted the idea, I think, and we will wait to see when that takes place," Zebari said.

At every meeting, Zebari said, he delivered the same appeal — to help stabilize the country and end the upsurge in violence that many say has pushed the country to the brink of civil war.

Iraq is "the key to stability in the region," he said. "That's why we have been calling on all the parties, all the states, that it is in you interest to help us to stabilize the situation. Failure in Iraq will affect you directly. Security vacuum in Iraq will not be any benefit."

Zebari accused some of Iraq's neighbors — whom he did not name — of fomenting violence and terrorist acts, and of putting short-term interests and a desire to settle "certain scores" ahead of long-term peace and stability in the region.

Recently in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia, there was a meeting of interior ministers of Iraq and its neighboring countries, and they signed a security protocol to coordinate and exchange information and set up hotlines, he said.

Despite this, Zebari said, "I would say unfortunately, some of our neighbors have not been helpful."

On the eve of the General Assembly, 31 countries attended a meeting of the Compact for Iraq, a five-year plan to ensure Iraq's government has funds to survive and enact key political and economic reforms.

Zebari called it "an important international event" but said that unless Iraq improves security and accelerates political reconciliation "it would be extremely difficult to attract foreign investments or foreign companies."

"That is the challenge — and the government is committed to do that," he said.

Nonetheless, Zebari said, despite the instability and violence, the new Iraqi government has taken other actions that demonstrate its authority.

"We wanted to help the Jordanian government and economy, so we signed an oil agreement to provide them with crude oil at preferential prices to support the Jordanian need for fuel," he said. "This really was an eye-opener to many countries in the region that despite everything we are going through, Iraq is still capable, able to help."

When the Israeli-Hezbollah war began in Lebanon in July, Zebari said Iraq donated US$35 million (€27.6 million) in emergency aid to the Lebanese government which "embarrassed many other Arab countries to raise their bid."

Iraq has also reached agreements with Turkey to boost trade and open new border crossings, he said, and it will sign a trade agreement with the European Union.

"Even with the Iranians, we've signed an oil agreement for us to give them crude for one of their refineries which is close to Basra, while they will compensate us in the Gulf, to increase our export," Zebari said.

UNITED NATIONS Iraq is getting more respect now that it has an elected government. Instead of just diplomatic niceties, Iraq was a full participant in dozens of meetings at the U.N. General Assembly.

"Now it's business," said Foreign Minister Hoshyar Zebari.

As the annual meeting of the world's leaders heads to its finale on Wednesday, the Iraqi minister said that since he started attending in 2003 he has never been busier.

"This is a good sign because Iraq really, despite the bad news, the negative news coming out of Baghdad, is moving steadily toward a functional state," he said in an interview Monday with the Associated Press.

Zebari recalled that as foreign minister first in the U.S.-apponted Iraqi Governing Council and then in the transitional government, there would be "nice words, nice exchanges" on the fringes of the General Assembly and other international meeting. But since Iraq's elections and the selection in April of a constitutional government, "the days of diplomatic niceties" are over.

With a smile of satisfaction, Zebari said, "it's more business we are in fact discussing," and he reeled off examples.

On the sidelines of the General Assembly, he said, "we had a good meeting of Iraq's neighboring countries ... and we agreed on some important steps."

First, Zebari said, Iran demanded that future meetings of Iraq's neighboring countries had to be "with the full consent, approval and need of the Iraqi government" which was not the case in the past.

"Second, we demanded that the next meeting of Iraq's neighboring countries take place in Baghdad, as a sign to stand with the Iraqi people, to show solidarity and support, as the Arab foreign ministers did when they went to Beirut during the war... And they approved it which was a good thing," he said.

At a meeting with Syria's Foreign Minister Walid Moallem, attended by Iraqi President Jalil Talabani, Zebari said "we had a very frank, open discussions about how to go forward."

The Iraqis told Moallem "if you want to improve relations and show goodwill ... one of the simplest steps is for you to come and visit Baghdad ... because in the past three years, almost each and every Iraqi official has visited you, and no Syrian officials have come to Baghdad," the foreign minister said. "It will help smooth, let's say, relations, and we will welcome you. You'll be respected in Iraq by all Iraqis."

What was the Syrian minister's response? "He said he accepted the idea, I think, and we will wait to see when that takes place," Zebari said.

At every meeting, Zebari said, he delivered the same appeal — to help stabilize the country and end the upsurge in violence that many say has pushed the country to the brink of civil war.

Iraq is "the key to stability in the region," he said. "That's why we have been calling on all the parties, all the states, that it is in you interest to help us to stabilize the situation. Failure in Iraq will affect you directly. Security vacuum in Iraq will not be any benefit."

Zebari accused some of Iraq's neighbors — whom he did not name — of fomenting violence and terrorist acts, and of putting short-term interests and a desire to settle "certain scores" ahead of long-term peace and stability in the region.

Recently in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia, there was a meeting of interior ministers of Iraq and its neighboring countries, and they signed a security protocol to coordinate and exchange information and set up hotlines, he said.

Despite this, Zebari said, "I would say unfortunately, some of our neighbors have not been helpful."

On the eve of the General Assembly, 31 countries attended a meeting of the Compact for Iraq, a five-year plan to ensure Iraq's government has funds to survive and enact key political and economic reforms.

Zebari called it "an important international event" but said that unless Iraq improves security and accelerates political reconciliation "it would be extremely difficult to attract foreign investments or foreign companies."

"That is the challenge — and the government is committed to do that," he said.

Nonetheless, Zebari said, despite the instability and violence, the new Iraqi government has taken other actions that demonstrate its authority.

"We wanted to help the Jordanian government and economy, so we signed an oil agreement to provide them with crude oil at preferential prices to support the Jordanian need for fuel," he said. "This really was an eye-opener to many countries in the region that despite everything we are going through, Iraq is still capable, able to help."

When the Israeli-Hezbollah war began in Lebanon in July, Zebari said Iraq donated US$35 million (€27.6 million) in emergency aid to the Lebanese government which "embarrassed many other Arab countries to raise their bid."

Iraq has also reached agreements with Turkey to boost trade and open new border crossings, he said, and it will sign a trade agreement with the European Union.

"Even with the Iranians, we've signed an oil agreement for us to give them crude for one of their refineries which is close to Basra, while they will compensate us in the Gulf, to increase our export," Zebari said.

UNITED NATIONS Iraq is getting more respect now that it has an elected government. Instead of just diplomatic niceties, Iraq was a full participant in dozens of meetings at the U.N. General Assembly.

"Now it's business," said Foreign Minister Hoshyar Zebari.

As the annual meeting of the world's leaders heads to its finale on Wednesday, the Iraqi minister said that since he started attending in 2003 he has never been busier.

"This is a good sign because Iraq really, despite the bad news, the negative news coming out of Baghdad, is moving steadily toward a functional state," he said in an interview Monday with the Associated Press.

Zebari recalled that as foreign minister first in the U.S.-apponted Iraqi Governing Council and then in the transitional government, there would be "nice words, nice exchanges" on the fringes of the General Assembly and other international meeting. But since Iraq's elections and the selection in April of a constitutional government, "the days of diplomatic niceties" are over.

With a smile of satisfaction, Zebari said, "it's more business we are in fact discussing," and he reeled off examples.

On the sidelines of the General Assembly, he said, "we had a good meeting of Iraq's neighboring countries ... and we agreed on some important steps."

First, Zebari said, Iran demanded that future meetings of Iraq's neighboring countries had to be "with the full consent, approval and need of the Iraqi government" which was not the case in the past.

"Second, we demanded that the next meeting of Iraq's neighboring countries take place in Baghdad, as a sign to stand with the Iraqi people, to show solidarity and support, as the Arab foreign ministers did when they went to Beirut during the war... And they approved it which was a good thing," he said.

At a meeting with Syria's Foreign Minister Walid Moallem, attended by Iraqi President Jalil Talabani, Zebari said "we had a very frank, open discussions about how to go forward."

The Iraqis told Moallem "if you want to improve relations and show goodwill ... one of the simplest steps is for you to come and visit Baghdad ... because in the past three years, almost each and every Iraqi official has visited you, and no Syrian officials have come to Baghdad," the foreign minister said. "It will help smooth, let's say, relations, and we will welcome you. You'll be respected in Iraq by all Iraqis."

What was the Syrian minister's response? "He said he accepted the idea, I think, and we will wait to see when that takes place," Zebari said.

At every meeting, Zebari said, he delivered the same appeal — to help stabilize the country and end the upsurge in violence that many say has pushed the country to the brink of civil war.

Iraq is "the key to stability in the region," he said. "That's why we have been calling on all the parties, all the states, that it is in you interest to help us to stabilize the situation. Failure in Iraq will affect you directly. Security vacuum in Iraq will not be any benefit."

Zebari accused some of Iraq's neighbors — whom he did not name — of fomenting violence and terrorist acts, and of putting short-term interests and a desire to settle "certain scores" ahead of long-term peace and stability in the region.

Recently in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia, there was a meeting of interior ministers of Iraq and its neighboring countries, and they signed a security protocol to coordinate and exchange information and set up hotlines, he said.

Despite this, Zebari said, "I would say unfortunately, some of our neighbors have not been helpful."

On the eve of the General Assembly, 31 countries attended a meeting of the Compact for Iraq, a five-year plan to ensure Iraq's government has funds to survive and enact key political and economic reforms.

Zebari called it "an important international event" but said that unless Iraq improves security and accelerates political reconciliation "it would be extremely difficult to attract foreign investments or foreign companies."

"That is the challenge — and the government is committed to do that," he said.

Nonetheless, Zebari said, despite the instability and violence, the new Iraqi government has taken other actions that demonstrate its authority.

"We wanted to help the Jordanian government and economy, so we signed an oil agreement to provide them with crude oil at preferential prices to support the Jordanian need for fuel," he said. "This really was an eye-opener to many countries in the region that despite everything we are going through, Iraq is still capable, able to help."

When the Israeli-Hezbollah war began in Lebanon in July, Zebari said Iraq donated US$35 million (€27.6 million) in emergency aid to the Lebanese government which "embarrassed many other Arab countries to raise their bid."

Iraq has also reached agreements with Turkey to boost trade and open new border crossings, he said, and it will sign a trade agreement with the European Union.

"Even with the Iranians, we've signed an oil agreement for us to give them crude for one of their refineries which is close to Basra, while they will compensate us in the Gulf, to increase our export," Zebari said.

Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive?
From: ard mhacha
Date: 27 Sep 06 - 02:27 PM

A report today on BBC TV from US inteligence agencies has stated that, "the war in Iraq is fueling a growing threat of global terrorism and shaping a new generation of terrorist leaders".
Why didn`t these people latch on to the Mudacat for this obvious conclusion, a long time ago.

Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive?
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Sep 06 - 01:25 PM

Country is not in chaos, says Talabani

Los Angeles Times-Washington Pos


New York: Last Wednesday, Newsweek-Washington Post's Lally Weymouth interviewed Iraqi President Jalal Talabani in New York.

Q. What happened in your meeting with President Bush?

We told him our progress in trade, the economy, training the army ... and we asked him to provide the Iraqi army with the necessary arms for improving the capacity of the army. We also thanked him for his continuous support of Iraq.

What did the president say to you?

That he will continue to support the Iraqi people and will remain there until we ask him to leave.

Reportedly the US government is losing faith in Prime Minister [Nouri Al] Maliki.

President Bush assured us that he will support the Al Maliki government. We assured him that all Iraqi political parties support Al Maliki. He has done many important things for Iraq.

When should US troops leave?

In seven provinces, the American army has withdrawn. The Iraqi army is replacing American forces in many cities. We hope that at the end of this year we will be able to control 12 provinces. We will remain in need of the American and coalition forces until we've trained our army and will be able to face terrorism and defeat it.

How long will that be?

I think within two years we will be able to train our army and have the capacity to face terrorism. ... The presence of American forces even a symbolic one will frighten those who are trying to interfere in our affairs.

Are you talking about Iran?

Our prime minister just came back from Iran. He got good promises from Iran on security promises that they will never permit any kind of interference in the internal affairs of Iraq.

Do you believe that?

Our prime minister tells me he got real and serious promises. Let us see.

What do you think of the popular theory that Iraq should split into three parts?

I don't think so. Iraq will not break up into three parts. Iraq will remain united we will have a united, federal Iraq. Kurds are struggling for the unity of Iraq Sunnis and Shiites, the same. There are differences among the Shiites and Sunnis which must be resolved, but not about the partition of Iraq.

Would you welcome US bases in Kurdistan?

Yes, they are welcome. Kurdistan wants the Americans to stay. In some places Sunnis want the Americans to stay Sunnis think the main danger is coming from Iran now.

Will the US put bases in Kurdistan?

I think we will be in need of American forces for a long time even two military bases to prevent foreign interference. I don't ask to have 100,000 American soldiers 10,000 soldiers and two air bases would be enough.

Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 26 Sep 06 - 01:30 PM

I wonder if we could get Cilla Black to helicopter into his back garden in Gateshead with a reunion present from his long lost cousin George...sounds like a lorra fun!

Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive?
From: Greg F.
Date: 26 Sep 06 - 01:21 PM

WHAT Bush mind?

Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive?
From: ard mhacha
Date: 26 Sep 06 - 12:44 PM

That reference to Bush not concentating on Afghanistan and blundering into Iraq reminds me of Adolf Hitler`s similar blunder by invading the Soviet Union, learning from history would be the last thing on the Bush mind.

Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive?
From: Wolfgang
Date: 26 Sep 06 - 05:03 AM

Quite likely he is alive. Why?
(1) Al Qaeda usually did announce the death of leaders within a few days. With each day without hearing from them, the news gets less likely.
(2) Usually, after the death of eminent Al Qaeda leaders the number of E-mail within that community has increased sizably. The services monitoring these E-mails do not see an increase this time.

Who is responsible for the rumour?
Surely not the Bush government as some narrow-minded Bushists (whatever happens lets talk about Bush) speculated here and in another thread.
(1) The way via a French provincial newspaper is not likely for a Bush plot.
(2) These news do not help Bush in the midterm-elections for they only focus one more the attention of the people to his stupid policy of invading Iraq instead of making a thorough job in Afghanistan.
So who did start the rumour (without forgetting that sometimes rumours start without anyone plotting)?
(1) Some secret service with the intention to make BL issue a hasty denial and perhaps this was indicating where he may be. Or,
(2) Al Qaeda, for in the past rumours of his death or illness have accompanied as a smokescreen a change of location of BL.

Wolfgang (who'd love to be proved wrong here)

Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive?
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Sep 06 - 02:08 AM

"Batiste said if full consideration had been given to the requirements for war, it's likely the U.S. would have kept its focus on Afghanistan, "not fueled Islamic fundamentalism across the globe, and not created more enemies than there were insurgents."

Here, here.

Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive?
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Sep 06 - 11:29 PM

"Bin Laden has written that it was US support fot the Israeli bombing of Beirut in 1982 that first radicalised him... "I still remember the blood -torn limbs,the women and children massacred. Houses were being destroyed and tower blocks collapsing."

First Lebanon War, began June 6, 1982, when the Israel Defense Forces invaded southern Lebanon. The Government of Israel gave a green light for the invasion as a response to the assassination attempt against Israel's ambassador to the United Kingdom, Shlomo Argov by Fatah - Revolutionary Council and to artillery attacks launched by the Palestine Liberation Organization against populated areas in northern Israel.

Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 25 Sep 06 - 06:39 PM

We are still fighting a war in Iraq, Pauline, for one very simple reason: we are still IN Iraq. Same goes for Afghanistan.

Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive?
From: akenaton
Date: 25 Sep 06 - 06:13 PM

Bin Laden is probably still alive, but of no real importance to the jihadist movement, which due to Western foreign policy carries its own momenmtum.

When Blair or Bush are pressed on the effects of their foreign policy regarding terrorism, they inevitably cite the attack on the World Trades Centre as "terrorism which occurred before the Iraq War"
As if the WTC attack was the start of all our terrorist problems.
Nothing could be further from the truth, Anglo/American foreign policy inthe Middle East has been radicalising Muslems for decades and US support for Israeli suppression of the Palistinians is the greatest recruiting sergeant for fundamentalist Islam.

Bin Laden has written that it was US support fot the Israeli bombing of Beirut in 1982 that first radicalised him... "I still remember the blood -torn limbs,the women and children massacred. Houses were being destroyed and tower blocks collapsing.
As I looked on the destroyed towers in Lebanon, it occurred to me to punish the oppressor in kind, by destroying towers in America."

Neither should we assume that attempting to spread our brand of "democracy" in the Middle East will isolate the Islamists, as evidence from Lebanon, Iran, Iraq, Palistine ect proves that given the option, newly radicalised Muslems will choose fundamentalist candidates over secularists.

all Terrorism is disgusting, whether perpetrated by rag-tag militias or powerful countries like UK/US, but although we condemn, it does not follow that we should not analyse accurately the reasons for that terrorism.

Many on this forum have made no attempt to analyse.

Our only hope is to reverse our foreign policy, get our invasion forces out and start to make some credible progress on an Israeli/Palistinian settlement...Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive?
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Sep 06 - 03:23 PM

Good point.

Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive?
From: Dave (the ancient mariner)
Date: 25 Sep 06 - 10:18 AM

Are you sure it was mouth to mouth?

Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive?
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Sep 06 - 10:04 AM

He contracted it while giving mouth-to-mouth to a 12-year-old boy. Let them spin that!

Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive?
From: Wolfgang
Date: 25 Sep 06 - 10:03 AM

If it's true (small chance I'd say with the present information available), I'm looking forward to Al Qaeda's official communique how he died a martyr's death of typhoid.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive?
From: Greg F.
Date: 25 Sep 06 - 10:01 AM

Retired officers to criticize Rumsfeld

By DAVID ESPO, Associated Press
Last updated: 7:15 a.m., Monday, September 25, 2006

WASHINGTON -- Retired military officers on Monday are expected to bluntly accuse Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld of bungling the war in Iraq, saying U.S. troops were sent to fight without the best equipment and that critical facts were hidden from the public.
        
"I believe that Secretary Rumsfeld and others in the administration did not tell the American people the truth for fear of losing support for the war in Iraq," retired Maj. Gen. John R. S. Batiste said in remarks prepared for a hearing by the Senate Democratic Policy Committee.

A second witness, retired Maj. Gen. Paul Eaton, is expected to assess Rumsfeld as "incompetent strategically, operationally and tactically ...."

Since last week, a government-produced National Intelligence Estimate became public that concluded the war has helped create a new generation of Islamic radicalism and that the overall terrorist threat has grown since the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001.

It is unusual for retired military officers to criticize the Pentagon while military operations are under way, particularly at a public event likely to draw widespread media attention.

But Batiste, Eaton and retired Col. Paul X. Hammes were unsparing in remarks that suggested deep anger at the way the military had been treated. All three served in Iraq, and Batiste also was senior military assistant to then-Deputy Secretary of Defense Paul Wolfowitz.

Batiste said Rumsfeld at one point threatened to fire the next person who mentioned the need for a postwar plan in Iraq.

Batiste said if full consideration had been given to the requirements for war, it's likely the U.S. would have kept its focus on Afghanistan, "not fueled Islamic fundamentalism across the globe, and not created more enemies than there were insurgents."

Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive?
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Sep 06 - 09:56 AM

"The truth is that fanatics hijack religion and use grievances as currency."

That is a lovely turn of phrase.

Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive?
From: Mr Yellow
Date: 25 Sep 06 - 08:06 AM

We've seen it all before. Northern Island is/was reputedly a religious conflict.

The truth is that fanatics hijack religion and use grievances as currency. That's human nature. What were the crusades?

Where are the gun runners in Ireland now? Converting farm diesel into regular fuel and cheating custom & excise. It is called a peace dividend - they were unruly before, they are unruly now. They don't really care about the downtrodden - they do the treading.

They live rich.

Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive?
From: ard mhacha
Date: 25 Sep 06 - 04:20 AM

One certain fact is beyond dispute, from Bush and his string pullers first came into power the world is in chaos, what a parcel of stupid, greedy, blundering fools.
Away back,, many a Thread ago, lots of people warned of the stupidity of invading Iraq, we were right, can anyone now question our judgment?, only fools and Teribus.

Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive?
From: Old Guy
Date: 24 Sep 06 - 10:27 PM

French Intel Says Bin Laden May Be Dead

PARIS, Sept. 23 (UPI) -- A Saudi intelligence source told UPI Saturday al-Qaida leader Osama bin Laden is 'very ill' while a Paris newspaper claimed the terrorist leader is dead.

The French regional daily, l`Est Republicain, said a memo leaked from France`s counter-espionage agency says bin Laden died last month of typhoid fever in Pakistan.

No official sources have confirmed the terror leader`s death.

'We are not saying he is dead, but there is a lot of truth in the report,' the Saudi intelligence source said, adding, 'bin Laden was very ill these past few weeks.

'There is no way we can prove that bin Laden is dead until we can see the body,' he said, (but) 'A good portion of what is in the report is true.'

Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive?
From: Greg F.
Date: 24 Sep 06 - 08:57 PM

Apologies for bringing this over from another thread but it seems pertinent here as well:

Spy Agencies Say Iraq War Worsens Terror Threat

By MARK MAZZETTI
Published: September 24, 2006

WASHINGTON, Sept. 23 — A stark assessment of terrorism trends by American intelligence agencies has found that the American invasion and occupation of Iraq has helped spawn a new generation of Islamic radicalism and that the overall terrorist threat has grown since the Sept. 11 attacks.

The classified National Intelligence Estimate attributes a more direct role to the Iraq war in fueling radicalism than that presented either in recent White House documents or in a report released Wednesday by the House Intelligence Committee, according to several officials in Washington involved in preparing the assessment or who have read the final document.

The intelligence estimate, completed in April, is the first formal appraisal of global terrorism by United States intelligence agencies since the Iraq war began, and represents a consensus view of the 16 disparate spy services inside government. Titled "Trends in Global Terrorism: Implications for the United States,'' it asserts that Islamic radicalism, rather than being in retreat, has metastasized and spread across the globe.

An opening section of the report, "Indicators of the Spread of the Global Jihadist Movement," cites the Iraq war as a reason for the diffusion of jihad ideology.

Whole article HERE

User "mudcat4" passwd "mudcat"

Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 24 Sep 06 - 08:41 PM

Bin Laden is on record as saying that he had wanted Bush to be re-elected. Not surprising, considering what has been achieved for the Jihadist agenda.

Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 24 Sep 06 - 08:20 PM

Bush has played right into the hands of the radicals.

Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive?
From: bobad
Date: 24 Sep 06 - 08:18 PM

God bless our God

Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive?
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Sep 06 - 08:14 PM

And the shite Arab press does nothing to help.