BS: Bin Laden dead or alive?

Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 24 Sep 06 - 08:07 PM

The Iraq war has been a great shot in the arm to radical Islam. Look how many radicals cite it. And it's no secret why. Every picture of a dead woman or child--due to "Coalition" action-- and broadcast on al-Jazeera helps immeasurably.

Also look for instance at how Hezbollah successfully used it in the Lebanese election of 2005. "The US (and Israel) have a plan...."

Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive?
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Sep 06 - 07:52 PM

Radical Islam has never wanted for killers. The Imams build it into the religion.

Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 24 Sep 06 - 07:48 PM

If Bush could claim he had killed him, Bush would get a bump in the polls. But then, when it became obvious that there was in fact no diminution in terror activity after his death--Bush might well have a worse slump than ever.

Especially as details emerge as to how the Iraq war has been a better recruiting tool for radical Islam than bin Laden ever was.

Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive?
From: Greg F.
Date: 24 Sep 06 - 07:33 PM

If you cannot use logic in discussion...Dave the ancient

Now that is amusing, considering the way the source frames his arguments.

Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive?
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Sep 06 - 04:19 PM

Osama-osama-fee-fi-fo-fama bin Laden.

Do suicide bombers have to pay union dues?

Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive?
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Sep 06 - 02:42 PM

If Old Guy isn't worried about the thread drifting, then neither will I.

Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 24 Sep 06 - 02:25 PM

This thread is drifting somewhat, but fair enough, whether Bin Laden is dead or alive is pretty insignificant. Dead he's probably more dangerous, beacuse that's how it works with symbolic figures.

As for spending money and helping avoid kids screwing up their lives, it depends what you spend it on, and they never seem to spend it on the stuff that might make a difference.

Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive?
From: pdq
Date: 24 Sep 06 - 02:06 PM

Ake..

I assumed you meant "the money we spent in Iraq would have paid for programs that would have saved our kids". If you did not mean that, it sounded that way. I agree, no amount of money will make children behave who do not want to behave. Also, no amount of school spending will educate a mind which rejects education.

Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive?
From: akenaton
Date: 24 Sep 06 - 01:58 PM

pdq...You miss the point.   This state of affairs is not about money, but a bankrupt political phylosophy.

Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive?
From: akenaton
Date: 24 Sep 06 - 01:53 PM

Dave I would be quite happy to see the dealers parents and govt officials who preside over the abuse of our young people, subject to the full weight of sharia law.

Your wonderful democracy is an empty shell.
So empty that our children are prepared to shorten their lives in order to escape from it.

Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive?
From: pdq
Date: 24 Sep 06 - 01:34 PM

Ake...

Another point. It really is not fair to say "the money we spent for _______ could have been used to fix _______". The same could be said about the money used for building roads, preserving wildlife, exploring space or preserving the pagentry of your royal family. You need to judge each issue 'on merit' and then figure out a way to fund it.

Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive?
From: Dave (the ancient mariner)
Date: 24 Sep 06 - 01:34 PM

And just what do you suggest we do Ake? Surrender our democracy to Sharia law? Change our religions and give up music and freedom?

Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive?
From: akenaton
Date: 24 Sep 06 - 01:29 PM

Apologies GUEST...being a dour Scot I had my humourration this morning   :0)

Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive?
From: akenaton
Date: 24 Sep 06 - 01:26 PM

You may be right about "liberalism" pdq....In the context it has been presented to us.

Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive?
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Sep 06 - 01:25 PM

Why? pdq blames liberalism for the fall of Western society. I was simply remarking. No sane person believes that, Ake. Humor. Get it? Not as funny as Muslim attacks on churches, but humor anyway. There's no accounting for taste.

Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive?
From: akenaton
Date: 24 Sep 06 - 01:22 PM

Take that medication quickly GUEST.....After a short while you will stop thinking you're Adolf Hitler....Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive?
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Sep 06 - 01:17 PM

Google

bin laden clone

on Google images. Go to the far right (haha). The game is called bin laden liquors.

Get to do to him what he's been doing to others. More fun than penguins.

Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive?
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Sep 06 - 01:15 PM

Lock-step. That would be much better. Left, right, left, right......

Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive?
From: pdq
Date: 24 Sep 06 - 01:14 PM

Ake...

What you describe is 'social breakdown' It is caused by Liberalism. No amount of money can fix it.

Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive?
From: akenaton
Date: 24 Sep 06 - 01:09 PM

How can you justify the slaughter that the war has brought to the people of Iraq?

While we attempt to export our brand of democracy to other cultures and faiths we will always be under attack.

Fight Terrorism???

I live near a small country town in Scotland, there are now almost 500 registered drug addicts living there, some as young as fourteen.
Children as young as nine or ten are used as couriers by the dealers.
They carry herion wrapped in clingfilm in their mouths and deliver it by bicycle.
Young girls of fifteen and sixteen regularly travel to sell their bodies in the larger towns for the price of a hit.

There is one state funded drugs worker attempting to run a methadone program, but the government says there are insufficient funds available to properly staff it.

In my opinion any society which is unable or unwilling to protect its children is not worth fighting for.

Before you take your medication, try to read this

I

Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive?
From: Dave (the ancient mariner)
Date: 24 Sep 06 - 12:37 PM

Greg F, If you cannot use logic in discussion, don't resort to silly childish comments.

The truth is you cannot face the fact that this is a war of ideals. The radical Islamic factions are not interested in negotiations and do not respect their own national governments. International law means nbothing to them either. What next?

Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive?
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Sep 06 - 12:24 PM

Higher than yours?

Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive?
From: Greg F.
Date: 24 Sep 06 - 12:07 PM

We are at a point in time where we fight or surrender to Islamic terrorism. Your Choice!

Best change your meds or try a higher dosage.

Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive?
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Sep 06 - 12:04 PM

"and recent remarks by the pope, in which Islam was called a violent religion."

Nothing violent about the followers of Mohammed. No, not at all.

Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive?
From: Dave (the ancient mariner)
Date: 24 Sep 06 - 12:01 PM

Nigeria:
Despite an effort to vaccinate all children against polio (and complete a worldwide campaign to destroy the disease), more cases of polio have appeared in the north. This is more a political and religious, than a medical problem. Moslem religious leaders have asserted that the vaccinations are a Christian plot to poison Moslems, and this delayed vaccinations for over a year, which allowed the disease to spread into areas where it had previously been eliminated. Despite government success in getting the major Moslem leaders to back the vaccinations, some clerics still believe the paranoid version of what the vaccinations are all about. Such attitudes fuel continued support of Islamic radicalism, including terrorism and hostility towards the Christian south.

Over the last week, Moslem mobs have burned eleven Christian churches in the north, and caused thousands of Christians to flee their homes. Moslems were protesting alleged disrespect by Christians, and recent remarks by the pope, in which Islam was called a violent religion.


This has been going on all over the world largely unreported by Western media for many years. The recent war in Iraq had fuck all to do with it. We are at a point in time where we fight or surrender to Islamic terrorism. Your Choice!

Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive?
From: Bill D
Date: 24 Sep 06 - 11:58 AM

I expect a video from Osama anytime now
"Yes, I am dead....you may quit looking for me."

Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive?
From: akenaton
Date: 24 Sep 06 - 11:13 AM

I agree with Ard mhacha.
The conflagration is now burning out of control. The Muslim fundamentalists no longer need a figurehead to rally round, Western foreign policy has given them all the amunition they need.

Iraq was the greatest political mistake in living memory, including Vietnam, and the architects of that mistake, both in the US and the UK should be punished by their respective electorates.

Here on Mudcat, thankfully most of the apologists have realised that their position was indefencible, Teribus and others not worth naming are conspicious by their absence, but the rats in Whitehall and Washington still cling on by their fingernails.

In Britain, I sense a change politically. The sleeping giant is starting to awaken......I have great hopes for that other sleeping giant across the Atlantic Ocean.......Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive?
From: Old Guy
Date: 24 Sep 06 - 10:24 AM

It takes about two weeks for a video tape to be donkey expressed from Bin Laden's hidey hole to Al Jazeera.

If we don't hear from him for two weeks I will assume that he has probably croaked.

Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive?
From: Willie-O
Date: 24 Sep 06 - 09:58 AM

Oddly enough I agree (mostly) with Old Guy's last post!

OBL proven dead of natural causes would solve a lot of nasty problems, especially the peculiar quasi-friendly standoff between the US and Pakistan regarding where he might be and who might (or might not) go find him and confront him.

But yeah, it's probably too good to be true.
US and French intelligence seem very skeptical. And it's thought that if he did die, Al-Quaeda would move quickly with their very effective propaganda machine, in order to get their own spin out first and use the event in their own way. (No doubt to make him a martyr and inspiration for more ugly violence)

W-O

Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive?
From: ard mhacha
Date: 24 Sep 06 - 04:43 AM

So that`s it then Bin Laden is dead, the war is over, let the lads come home, and Pluto won the greyhound Derby.
Bush and co have created countless Bin Laden clones, ready to take his place.

Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive?
From: Pauline L
Date: 24 Sep 06 - 04:26 AM

Hussein has been captured and bin Laden is dead. So why are we still fighting a war in Iraq?

Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive?
From: Ebbie
Date: 24 Sep 06 - 12:56 AM

It just occurred to me- I know the answer. The answer is YES.

Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive?
From: Old Guy
Date: 24 Sep 06 - 12:38 AM

If he were killed in battle or executed, he would be a martyr. If he was captured and held in jail it would cause people to be taken hostage for his release or even be beheaded in retribution.

It would be better if the died, especially from some cruddy thing like typhoid, because it would show he is nothing special.

Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 23 Sep 06 - 11:04 PM

And what about Bat Boy, Rapaire??? ;-) What would he think?

Bin Laden is worth more far to the USA alive than dead, seems to me...since he remains a symbolic propaganda tool of some importance (though it keeps declining all the time).

No matter which one of these media-made bogeymen dies, however, the fighting goes on. Has anyone noticed that? That's because the fighting is a result of longstanding and grievous and very real geopolitical issues...it is not the result of a few token evil "bad guys" and their doings.

This is not a TV drama, with an evil few criminal masterminds who are responsible for all that is wrong, and it will not provide a neat resolution for everyone at the end of the show when they conveniently kick the bucket in some way or another. It will not solve the problem when they die. This is real life, and real life is just not that simple.

In real life it isn't a case of the bad guys all being on one side, and the good guys all being on the other.

Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive?
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Sep 06 - 10:11 PM

D. B. Cooper and bin Laden - same, same.

Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive?
From: Rapparee
Date: 23 Sep 06 - 10:04 PM

Sadam Hussein would be devestated if he dead.

Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive?
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Sep 06 - 09:13 PM

No I think you'll find I have the answer....

Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive?
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Sep 06 - 09:05 PM

I think I have found the answer . . . .

Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive?
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Sep 06 - 08:56 PM

Like, they have you believing that Elvis is dead? Sheesh. What next?

Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive?
From: Scoville
Date: 23 Sep 06 - 08:51 PM

I doubt he's dead, and even if he were I think it would turn into one of those Elvis situations where we'll never really let him die even though he's not physically alive.

Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive?
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Sep 06 - 08:35 PM

I doubt if he is dead but it sure saves Bush the embarrassment of being unable to find him.

Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive?
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Sep 06 - 08:19 PM

What's his version of 'You spin me round' like then? Better than Pete's?

Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive?
From: Old Guy
Date: 23 Sep 06 - 08:05 PM

If it sounds too good to be true, it is probably not true. But there is always hope.

Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive?
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 23 Sep 06 - 07:36 PM

It would save some people the embarassment of his dying of old age before he was caught.

But the truth is, he's become irrelevant in the maelstom of Arab and Muslim disaffection and the Western world's continuing mistrust. He was a symbol once, for some people - I don't think he has been much of even that recently.

It all leaves a strange taste.

Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive?
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Sep 06 - 07:00 PM

If I have the choice, dead would be nice.

Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive?
From: The Shambles
Date: 23 Sep 06 - 06:51 PM

I reckon it was those bloody sting rays again.

Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive?
From: Ebbie
Date: 23 Sep 06 - 06:14 PM

Perhaps I'll believe it when the Saudi bin Laden family holds a state funeral for the man.

Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive?
From: Greg F.
Date: 23 Sep 06 - 06:10 PM

That's Osama bin Forgotten- at least by the BuShites. If they don't care, why should anyone else?

Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive?
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Sep 06 - 05:39 PM

Gee. Too bad.

Subject: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive?
From: Old Guy
Date: 23 Sep 06 - 05:38 PM

Saudis believe bin Laden is dead

Paris, September 23
A French newspaper today published what it said was a report by the country's intelligence services that said Saudi Arabia believes Osama bin Laden died of typhoid in Pakistan this month.

France's Defence Ministry issued a statement saying the newspaper report "cannot be confirmed" and that Defence Minister Michele Alliot-Marie had ordered an investigation "to determine the source of this leak, which is a crime punishable by law." France's foreign intelligence service, the DGSE, also refused to confirm the report, and no immediate official reaction was forthcoming from Saudi officials.

But European and Pakistani officials tracking bin Laden's whereabouts told AFP, on condition of anonymity, that the report could not be seen as reliable.

Often rumoured to be dead in the past -- only to appear later in audio or video recordings -- the leader of the Al-Qaida terror network was believed to have taken refuge on the border region between Pakistan and Afghanistan.

Previous reported rumours have said that he suffered from a kidney disorder and was in poor health.

The French regional newspaper l'Est Republicain published what it said was a DGSE report dated September 21.

"According to a usually reliable source, the Saudi security services are now convinced that Osama bin Laden is dead," the DGSE report quoted by the newspaper said.

It said that "information gathered by the Saudis" indicates that bin Laden "might have succumbed to a very serious case of typhoid fever resulting in partial paralysis of his lower limbs on August 23, 2006.