BS: Nightime leg cramps

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 05 Sep 09 - 05:23 PM

Hi Susan

Next rheumatoligst appointment is not until 1st December. I have to hang until then.

Won't go to GP again for the palpitations and constant night wakings due to feeling like my blood is trying reverse flow. Already had stress and 24 EKG. Nothing wrong with my heart.

Next time I go to GP will be for my flu shot. This month I hope. Last year they didn't notify me that the stock was in until after I already had flu. Took me 3 months to recover. After that extended flu is when the palpitaitions started.

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: wysiwyg
Date: 05 Sep 09 - 04:35 PM

Tam,

I tuck a small pillow under my ankles so my feet are never flattened out when I lie down on my side or tummy. That has helped too.

Hopefully ALL these ideas will go along with you to a clinic visit?

Hint-hint,

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: GUEST,Partridge
Date: 05 Sep 09 - 04:13 PM

A soak in bath with epsom salts. Eat a banana and an orange once a day.

Pat

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 05 Sep 09 - 11:16 AM

Well the small bar of Bath & body warm vanilla sugar soap (prezzie I can't use as actual soap) is now tucked beneath the fitted sheet around ankle level. Not much relief the 1st night but last night was a lot better. Find I keep fiddling the bar around with my feet, expelling nervous energy and getting stretches in, which is good.

Realise that moon was coming to full the other night. I always feel bloody awful when it does. Like tides running backwards inside me.


aaaaaaaarrrrroooooooooooo

               __.....__
              .-'         '-.
            .'               '.
           /                   \
          /        |\           \
         ;        |V \_          ;
         |        |  ' \         ;
         ;        )   ,_\        |
         ;       /    |          ;
          \     /      \        /
           \    |       \      /
            '.   \       \   .'
              '-._|       \-'
                  | |\     |
          ________/ |_'.   /_____

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: Zany Mouse
Date: 04 Sep 09 - 01:59 PM

I have stages like this which last for a few weeks and then stop. I usually manage to scare them off with Tonic water. I don't know how it works but it does.

Blessings
Rhiannon

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: katlaughing
Date: 03 Sep 09 - 10:49 PM

Yes, you can get too much potassium, but probably not from diet only. It can be dangerous, so best to get it checked. Also, do an edema check: put your finger tip right on your shin and push in hard for a count of twenty. If the "dimple" stays and is slow to fill out, you have edema and should see your doc. I just went through this as an offshoot from pneumonia and other stuff. Also make sure you are getting enough magnesium and calcium; most likely you will need supplements for those.

Much as Susan has said, my doc explained to me, the fluid was hanging down around my lower legs, ankles and feet. As soon as I was in bed, it started sloshing around causing incredibly painful charley horses with me jumping out of bed, yelling and stomping to beat the band until it would settle down. They have settled down now, finally, but you have my sympathy. Not a fun thing to have happen.

Hope this helps.

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: wysiwyg
Date: 03 Sep 09 - 10:02 PM

Gravity drains leg fluids down and gives exactly that feeling Tam, and it makes the muscle fibers so waterlogged they don't work right. Can you take a break mid-day to put your legs up (way up)? Athletes sometimes get on a bed, ass against wall and legs up against the wall, and read a book, to drain lactic acid (byproduct of workouts).

Sitting long periods can also trap leg fluids in the lower leg-- the veins on the backside of the knee/upper leg get compressed so flow back towards the heart is lessened.

Taking BP meds that add leg edema? Many do.... If so, it's time to tell the doc to try a new med or med combo. Or, you may need to explore compression stockings to help get the blood back up the leg towards the heart.

Not having DVT are you dear?

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: dwditty
Date: 03 Sep 09 - 09:14 PM

Read about soap and leg cramps here

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 03 Sep 09 - 05:06 PM

where in the bed? how do you keep it from escaping?

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 03 Sep 09 - 05:04 PM

Mary

I drink up to 2 jugs of water a day. Rarely drink alcohol (last was half cider a month ago today) and 1 to 2 coffees a day.

Can you get too much potassium? I only ate plain anya potatoes yesterday

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: dwditty
Date: 03 Sep 09 - 05:03 PM

As noted above, it sounds ridiculous, but the bar of soap in the bed worked for me too. My doctor shook his head, but I don't care. You don't have a thing to lose by trying it...if it doesn't work, retrieve the soap and go take a shower.

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 03 Sep 09 - 04:54 PM

hi Susan

What's weird about this pain is the totality of legs affected. From top of iliac crest down into my toes, fronts, backs sides. Legs feel achy (not crampy) over full, cold, heavy and like they want to explode.

I thought it was circulatory.

I am pretty good about getting potassium and doing stretches to keep the muscle cramps at bay and doing stretches. I just did a little salt under the tongue trick that Peace advised in PM and they feel a bit better. I don't get much salt in my diet because of BP.

maybe it is only in my mind.

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: SINSULL
Date: 03 Sep 09 - 04:45 PM

Restless leg syndrome, Tam. Ask your doctor for help. For now limit alcohol and caffeine. Drink plenty of water.

Subject: Aquatic Handouts
From: wysiwyg
Date: 03 Sep 09 - 04:31 PM

Corrected post

Overused muscles (including muscles stood on all day or sat on all day) will cramp and twitch. The prevention is a hot soak with stretches.

If you did not prevent, a reliable emergency cramp-release is a wet, hot compress (washcloth or towel depending on size of cramped muscle), as hot as your skin can take, with a little pressure into the cramp.

For calves and toes, I've found it helps to stand for a moment or two (with or without the compress treatment) with my toes elevated. I've stood on books, pool noodles, blankets-- anything in reach to get me started toward the shower.

A hot shower stream directed on the stretching muscle also helps.


Athletically, muscle recovery is aided (and cramps prevented) with a hot-tub deep stretch of the affected muscles. More of them may need this than you first think when you get in. (Not mere hot tub SITS, but hot tub MOVES.)


Also athletically, muscles in development will get twitchy later that night, during the night, or over the next few days after they have made an advance in condition. It's not RLS, it's normal athletic development. Prevent/treat with active day-off movement, not duplicating the workout that produced it but moving the same muscle groups gently.

~Susan

Subject: Aquatic Handouts
From: wysiwyg
Date: 03 Sep 09 - 04:29 PM

B>Overused muscles (including muscles stood on all day or sat on all day) will cramp and twitch. The prevention is a hot soak with stretches.

If you did not prevent, a reliable emergency cramp-release is a wet, hot compress (washcloth or towel depending on size of cramped muscle), as hot as your skin can take, with a little pressure into the cramp.

For calves and toes, I've found it helps to stand for a moment or two (with or without the compress treatment) with my toes elevated. I've stood on books, pool noodles, blankets-- anything in reach to get me started toward the shower.

A hot shower stream directed on the stretching muscle also helps.


Athletically, muscle recovery is aided (and cramps prevented) with a hot-tub deep stretch of the affected muscles. More of them may need this than you first think when you get in. (Not mere hot tub SITS, but hot tub MOVES.)

Also athletically, muscles in development will get twitchy later that night, during the night, or over the next few days after they have made an advance in condition. It's not RLS, it's normal athletic development. Prevent/treat with active day-off movement, not duplicating the workout that produced it but moving the same muscle groups gently.

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 03 Sep 09 - 04:18 PM

help

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 03 Sep 09 - 03:11 PM

Somebody cut my legs off, Pullleeeaassseee.

Just came in from work, put my feet up on sofa cause legs and feet are all achey and twitchy and feel like they are going to explode. Why do they feel so full?

I can't stand being inside them. Exercise not helping.


AAARRRGGHHHH!!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: Will Fly
Date: 18 Feb 09 - 03:18 AM

One thing that's not been mentioned in this thread so far is the possibility that, in some cases, leg cramps are actually referred pain from some other back or leg problem - particularly sciatica - which may not be, at first, apparent.

Always wise, if you start to suffer from such cramps, to check with your doc in case there might be some underlying, but unknown, other cause. The solution may not be dietary.

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: Little Hawk
Date: 18 Feb 09 - 12:37 AM

You're on the right track, SINSULL. Drama is the key. ;-) Here's another thing you can add to that...keep a loaded submachine gun by the bed, and when the cramp hits, leap out of bed, yell, "OH FUCK!" in the usual fashion, grab the tommy gun and blast off a hundred or so rounds at random in all directions, screaming at the top of your lungs like Stallone does when he goes berserk in those Rambo movies.

It works great.

You can thank Chongo for this bit of advice. That's what he does when he gets a bad cramp at night, only he yells "KREE-GAH! BUNDOLO GOMANGANI! RAAAAAAAAK!" and other stuff like that instead of "OH, FUCK!".

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: SINSULL
Date: 17 Feb 09 - 08:43 PM

I usually jump out of bed screaming "Oh Fuck" and walk it off on the cold bathroom floor. I don't get leg cramps often but am quite dramatic when I do. Drama also helps cure colds.
SINS

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: GUEST,wombat
Date: 17 Feb 09 - 08:23 PM

I find that I only get one restless leg at a time and if I position the "good" leg on top of the "bad" leg and fight the impulse to move the lower leg - that I can fall asleep. However, if I get RL during the day (usually when sitting for awhile) there is nothing that I can do but get up and move around. I have heard recently that there may be a link between restless leg and strokes - probably lack of circulation. I know there is a drug now, Requip, I believe. Anyone taking that? How does it work? I also get occasional cramps in my feet at night, or up my shin and much less frequently a groin cramp. Any suggestions for that, aside from the salt, magnesium and soap in the bed?

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 08 Feb 09 - 09:32 AM

My older daughter used to become violently ill (hives, fever and body aches including muscle cramps) when she ate any product with sodium nitrate. Many pork based products in the US are loaded with sodium nitrate.
She later started having life threatening reactions to all sorts of foods in her early 20s. Sweet corn, bell peppers, cayenne pepper, gatorade, etc.

Take care not to eat items that cause such problems. I would advise that you get yourself to an allergist.

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: GUEST,jlloydw
Date: 08 Feb 09 - 09:20 AM

I have been reading the postings: I find that when I eat bacon, the microvabable kind, I seem to have horrendous leg cramps at night. When I don't have it I am fine. What's that about?

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: GUEST,Ravenheart
Date: 28 Jan 09 - 03:49 PM

When they come, I find it helps to oppose the contraction--stretch away from the cramp, wherever it is.

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 28 Jan 09 - 12:56 AM

I haven't read the thread, just the first post. Wesley, do you listen to KERA-FM? They had the Gradens' from "People's Pharmacy" on this weekend for the pledge drive. The answer they recommend is as silly as anything they've heard, but apparently it works. I just looked up a few posts--Kendall says the same thing as they did.

Get a bar of soap. Ivory works, the caller said Coast also works, but Ivory is less expensive. Put it under the bottom sheet on the mattress pad near your legs at the point where you get the cramp. That will get rid of it. They didn't say weather they take the wrapper off or not, but I guess I'd do it without the wrapper to get whatever it is full-strength.

Another thing for cramps is a teaspoon of regular yellow mustard.

Try it and report back, please.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 27 Jan 09 - 08:18 PM

I occasionally get bed cramps upon waking and stretching with the my toes pointed (one should always stretch with the foot in an L position--the L you say!?).

The only cure I've found is to yell loudly, waking up Mrs. Coast, and massage the calf for a few minutes. The dirty looks from the wife also help the pain go away.

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 27 Jan 09 - 04:36 PM

Muscle cramps are invariably related to circulatory problems, but that offers a very wide range of causes and cures, and some of the cures can be quite dangerous - especially if carried to extremes.

As noted, quinine sulphate is an "instant cure" for large muscle cramps; but was banned in the US as an over-the-counter (OTC) drug a few decades ago and is now available (in useful amounts) only by prescription. The cited reason for the ban was that quinine is a specific relaxant at the tendon/muscle interface where cramps are "triggered," but this is the same "critical area" where muscle function signalling occurs so it can also affect heart rhythm. Quinine also may be less effective for "small cramps" like those in toes and fingers.

Postural peculiarities can cause local reduction in circulation in a particular muscle, and even a fairly brief restriction in flow can cause the initiation of a cramp. Some people become fairly "active" during deep (REM) sleep, and "act out" their dreams, but others may become almost "rigid" and the prolonged holding of one position may allow a restriction of flow to a localized part of the body - particularly a part of a leg - to "accumulate a circulation deficit" leading to a cramp. (The small bar of soap gives you something to "kick around" and may lessen the likelihood that you'll hold a fixed position for long periods? Sleeping after imbibing also tends to reduce "sleep-motions" making one more prone to localized blockage of circulation?)

Sleep disturbances caused by things like apnea or COPD are commonly thought of in terms of oxygen depletion, which can cause cramps; but also can affect CO₂ levels in the blood that can cause the entire breathing and circulation process to "turn to crap." For one particular kind of cramp that I get, the most immediate fix is an 8 oz glass of saturated bicarbonate of soda to "kick up" the CO₂, but that doesn't work for the other kind(s). Long-term or habitual use of large doses of bicarb can cause unwanted side effects, but my team of advisors seem undisturbed by my reports of occasional use. It does include a fairly massive slug of sodium, but that isn't a concern for me.

Recent opinion on reduced sodium intake have found that not all people with high blood pressure benefit from drastic reduction. Some people are extremely sensitive to sodium, and need to restrict it; but for others of us it seems to have very little effect on bp. You may be somewhere in between. Drastic reductions in sodium can also cause uncomfortable side effects (see the Yuppie Flu of a decade ago) so you need to find out whether, and to what extent, you personally are affected before deviating from standard dietary guidelines.

Many of the other suggestions such as Calcium, Potassium, Vitamins, and such are important for general health, but to be effective require the creation and maintenance of appropriate and stable long-term levels in the system, so few of them are of much use for the immediate treatment of a specific incidence of a cramp (IMO). Getting up to get the pill may relieve the sluggish circulation, which will help. Taking something with a glass of water could help if you're a bit dehydrated. Massage, movement, and stretching often are about the only things that do a lot of immediate good for some kinds of cramps. Use of a good "massage vibrator" on the affected muscle may be helpful, but I have the last real "vibrator" sold in the US. Since ca. 1948, there are no readily available devices that "vibrate." The current ones potentially useful on large muscles just "hum lightly" and are not very effective.

(Personal opinion based mainly on long-term observation of a sample of only one rather decrepit body.)

John

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: GUEST,PeterC
Date: 27 Jan 09 - 03:05 PM

In cold weather I get cramp in the sole of my foot. Bedsocks are the best preventative.

I sometimes get cramps in the calves, most often after ceilidhs. I always try to have crisps or salted peanuts during the evening.

The only cure I know once they come on is simply to get out of bed and put some weight on the leg.

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: GUEST,HiLo
Date: 27 Jan 09 - 09:35 AM

I find that pressing my foot against something cold works very well. If I feel a cramp coming I press my foot against our porcelain bathtub...works every time.

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: kendall
Date: 27 Jan 09 - 09:14 AM

You are going to laugh at this, but my Doctor, who is not only an MD but a DO as well, told me that some of his patients claim that a cake of soap in their beds prevents leg cramps. I laughed, asked him where he keeps his rattle, but I tried it. That was three weeks ago and no cramps since. Probably just a fluke.

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: GUEST, topsie
Date: 27 Jan 09 - 08:04 AM

Woolly bedsocks

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: Black belt caterpillar wrestler
Date: 27 Jan 09 - 07:36 AM

Is there any correlation with bad circulation?
I ask because I'm always the first to get cold hands or cold feet when the temperature goes down and I tend to get the leg cramps in the night after a day when I've noticed that I have had cold feet.

I am told that the pain is caused by a build up of lactic acid in the muscle not being flushed away in the blood stream, which also could be affected by the poor circulation theory. The lactic acid is generated by the muscle working and the problem is that the muscle has "switched on" and won't "switch off".
I always try tensing the muscle that is hurting and then relaxing it in an attempt to make it "switch off" naturally, and this works nine times out of ten. After that it's down to massage etc.

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 27 Jan 09 - 02:57 AM

Of course, cramps at night can also come from over indulgence in alcohol. A friend of mine was advised by his doctor to cut down the alcohol as he was having frequent leg cramps (after frequent nights of drinking)... it solved his problem... but it is a little difficult for him attending Folk Clubs where real ale is consumed in copious amounts and sticking to mineral waters....   he still gets leg cramps but not so regularly... if you get my drift.

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: open mike
Date: 27 Jan 09 - 02:38 AM

i have heard of calcium for cramps
one way to get it is Tums with calcium

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 27 Jan 09 - 12:56 AM

My ex (a one time sports therapist or athletic trainer or whatever they call themselves now) used to keep sachets of ketchup from fast food places for the players to suck down if mid game cramp struck. That and snack boxes of Sunmaid raisins.

I've had restless leg syndrome all my life. Sometimes can't stand being inside my legs. Often have the leg cramps, but now I know when it is coming. I usually have a glass of water, eat a banana or baked potato. Also stand on a step with my heels hanging off the edge and then lower my heels, stretching the calf muscles. Then do lunges which also stretches the hamstring.

Ususally nips the cramp in the bud.

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 26 Jan 09 - 10:28 PM

Try a spoonful of hot Chinese mustard. It won't make your leg cramps go away, but you won't care. You'll be too busy trying to claw the sinuses from your head.

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 26 Jan 09 - 08:10 PM

"A spoonful of mustard makes the agony go down" as Mary Poppins would have put it.

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: Rapparee
Date: 26 Jan 09 - 06:49 PM

No.

You might have your parathyroid levels checked -- the test is abbreviated "PTH" for ParaThyroid Hormone.

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: Wesley S
Date: 26 Jan 09 - 04:17 PM

I was listening to the radio over the weekend and a woman on NPR says she gets immediate relief by taking a spoonful of yellow mustard when the cramp hits. Has anyone else heard of this?

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: Rapparee
Date: 06 Dec 06 - 08:51 AM

I started wearing those socks that provide gradual compression because I also have mild diabetes. Don't remember having cramps in the calves since I started.

Whoa! Spandex! Heavy metal, here I come!!

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: Mr Red
Date: 06 Dec 06 - 06:20 AM

I loooooove pork scratchings but since BSE and the offal ban they have been made mostly from rendered pigskin which is crackling. Now the marketing and public expectation is that crackling and scratchings are one and the same.
<RANT>
Scratchings were what was left from making lard, most of the fat had been drained out - so the fatty layers yielded more lard than any pigskin. Mostly found in the Black Country UK (don't even think Birmingham).
</RANT>

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 05 Dec 06 - 08:30 PM

For them as like pork scratchings, that kind of thing is part of the appeal, Liz.

It's a bit like folk music really. The things that attract us to it are the very things that put off the rest of the world.

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: Slag
Date: 05 Dec 06 - 01:38 AM

Post Script: My own experience was that I had never had a cramp of any kind until I took up surfing at age 14. Day one I was in the water for hours and knee paddling back out through the surf. That night I found out what leg cramps are all about and have dealt with them off and on ever since.

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: Slag
Date: 05 Dec 06 - 01:31 AM

Sports drinks, Gatorade, Gookenade, etc. all have a pretty good electrolyte balance. Quinine works but be careful. Bentyl and other phenobarbitals can help, ask you Doc! Are you taking any steriods? Cortisone? or using corisone cream for dermatitis? That and other medications can contribute to the leg cramps. Any new activities? New shoes? Light but frequent exercise to keep the old circulation going is good. I used to have to massage my son's legs most every night when he was having cramps (growing pains) as a child. He wound up 6'4". No wonder he hurt! You might try sleeping with a pillow between your legs (as opposed to other things!!). Hey, then again it might be time for a new materess!! Good luck. It seems like your getting a lot of things to try.

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: Little Hawk
Date: 05 Dec 06 - 01:01 AM

I wonder if elderly bats have this problem? They have to sleep while hanging upsidedown by their feet, poor things. Imagine getting a calf or thigh cramp in such a situation...

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: open mike
Date: 05 Dec 06 - 12:58 AM

*Chicharones or chicharron are fried pig skins, also called cracklings.

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 05 Dec 06 - 12:38 AM

I once found a recognisable ear in a packet... haven't eaten pork scratchings since.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: frogprince
Date: 05 Dec 06 - 12:22 AM

Y' ever realize what those so-called "pork rinds" really are?...














(A college roommate and I somehow got unto calling them "french-fried foreskins")

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: katlaughing
Date: 04 Dec 06 - 11:53 PM

"...less appealing???" Oh, yeah, McG! I really wanna eat something a hog has scratched!**bg**

Subject: RE: BS: Nighttime leg cramps
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 04 Dec 06 - 09:35 PM

Packet of crisps should be enough, Mr Red. Or pork scratchings. ("Pork rinds" I believe is what they are called in the States, which somehow seems to sound a bit less appealing.)

A Marmite sandwich would do the job too.