BS: Obama's goose is cooked

Subject: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Feb 07 - 07:52 PM

Commercials and "swift boating campaigns" are already in production.

Last week the first foul shot across his bow was an ingenius whispering campaign that Barak was educated by muslim terrorists since the age of 6 and that the Hillary campaign hired the dectectives who found out about his terrorist education past.

The current campaign against him is coming from hired blacks who claim that Obama is not black or an African American. A little pamphlet sized book is currently for sale that reads like it was hatched in one weekend from the American Heritage think tank.

The next campaign against him will feature what looks like the Aflac goose standing in front of an unflattering photo of Obama quacking "

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: Don Firth
Date: 14 Feb 07 - 08:12 PM

I knew it wouldn't be long.

I'd like to see Obama haul these people into court in a libel suit.

The only defense in a civil suit for libel is for them to prove that what they say is true. That would bloody-well settle it.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: Peace
Date: 14 Feb 07 - 08:16 PM

I think that Obama will be the first Black President in the history of the US. I guess the bastards who do smear campaigns are starting to think that, too. The key is to stay with the issues and absolutely ignore the statements fromm groups like that. Then, when the legal ducks are in a row, nail them in court.

Subject: RE: ?
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Feb 07 - 08:19 PM

for some reason only a part of my initial post appeared
here it is in its entirety




Commercials and "swift boating campaigns" are already in production.

Last week the first foul shot across his bow was an ingenius whispering campaign that Barak was educated by muslim terrorists since the age of 6 and that the Hillary campaign hired the dectectives who found out about his terrorist education past.
This is currently belived by about 10% of the people who heard the rumor. With proper repeatition it can be believed by 33% or more.

The current campaign against him is coming from hired blacks who claim that Obama is not black or an African American. A little pamphlet sized book is currently for sale that reads like it was hatched in one weekend from the American Heritage think tank.

During an interview Obama's wife was asked if she worried if Obama would be asassinated since he was both a black man and a populist candidate ( you see All populist presidents have been shot although some survived like Teddy Roosevelt)
She answered that "a black man in America can be shot just going to the gas station and we will not live in fear.
Conservatives like Tucker Clarson said that its a lie that black people get shot anymore than anyone else in America and that some one would have to prove otherwise.

The Australian PM (hand seleted by Rupert Murdoch and political clone of W) said while seated next to a grinning Bush Jr. said, sic "Obama would be a disgraceful presidential candidate that would destabilize the middle east and cause chaos and disaster."
Obama responded that If Howard is so ginned up to escalate this illegal war, Howard should send his own troops to suffer this failed strategy."

The NEXT campaign against him will feature what looks like the Aflac goose standing in front of an unflattering photo of Obama quacking " Half Black Half Black Half Black !!!!!!!!"

This will inspire white racists as well as racist blacks.

Next there will be mailings that insinuate that on top of admitted cocaine abuse Obama is still suffering from an addiction of Heroin proportions.

Finally what will cook his goose , just like Harold Ford, will be the allegation of Obama having sexual intercourse with white women.
They may even get a few whores to go on camera and describe his penis the same way they did with Bill Clinton.

of course smear tactics are despicable but we all know that politics is the steering of EMOTIONS for the power to steer profits into designated pockets.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Feb 07 - 08:21 PM

Here is a smear for Mitt Romney

I think his wife is hot, all three of them.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: Peace
Date: 14 Feb 07 - 08:24 PM

Thing is, ads that appeal to racists are as good a waste of their money as anything else, because that type of crap will reach the eyes and ears of people who wouldn't vote for someone because of race or sex.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: Charley Noble
Date: 14 Feb 07 - 08:25 PM

Well, I hope the Swift boat folks get deep-sixed!

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Feb 07 - 08:29 PM

Gulliani not only has kissing cousins, he marries them!

The smears against Hillary have been mostly sexual by calling her a lesbian for years. I think if she were smart she would get Obama to sign on early as her Vice President. IT makes sense as insurance against right wing assasins as well as boosting her appeal by 50%.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: Don Firth
Date: 14 Feb 07 - 08:45 PM

This sort of vicious hate campaign will undoubtedly take a few votes away from Obama, but it could just backfire and win him a lot of sympathy votes from people who might not have voted for him otherwise.

Don't start sharpening your carving knife yet. The goose is still loose.

There's this song that Leadbelly used to sing. . . .

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Feb 07 - 09:04 PM

Loose as a goose is not a pleasant thing in our family Don but I see the race being introduced by corporate networks who have dismissed all the real journalists in favor of entertainers.

I see a Ceasar like figure standing before the colloseum exclaiming "Let the swift boating begin"

The most smears will be on any candidate that might cost a defense contractor to lose even a small sliver of a profit margin.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: Peace
Date: 14 Feb 07 - 09:05 PM

And forewarned is forearmed.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: mg
Date: 14 Feb 07 - 09:06 PM

Oh for heavens sake. He will most likely win, and I hope he does and hope he will lose the nomination rather than cut a deal with Hillary. If he wants to cut one with Edwards, I think that would be a great team, although we can kiss our behind goodbye, probably one way or another, internationally. But domestically, I think they would be great, in eeither order but I would prefer Obama/Edwards. With General Honore somewhere in the cabinet. I like him. He says don't get your father another tie for Christmas, get him a weather radio. A sensible man. And of course I would like to see women in the cabinet, or as a vice president, or president if it wasn't Hillary or Nancy Pelosi. Or probably others. And he doesn't need the Heritage Institute to write that sort of booklet for voters; this is a concern that some people (not me) have that he will have to address. I think his heritage is awesome and more diverse even than we realize..Cherokee..which I swear I see in his face...Asian upbringing, a Muslim culture, Kansas farmland on his mother's side. Plus he sends me emails now and then (well along with millions of other people). And I do believe that the dirt or what some perceive as dirt, and I do not call being taught by Muslims dirt but rather more diversity in a world that has to reconcile with Muslims, will be dug up or manufactured by the CLintons and has been already...mg

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: Peace
Date: 14 Feb 07 - 09:26 PM

The Heritage Institrute is a respected 'school' whose mission is to educate educators. I think it unwise to mix that up with the Heritage Foundation--which is a conservative 'think tank'.

Heritage INSTITUTE.

Heritage FOUNDATION.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 14 Feb 07 - 09:36 PM

Obama is the negative-campaign organizer's worst nightmare. He hasn't been in the public eye long enough to have done much that can be criticized, and attempts to attack him on a personal level run the risk of being seen as race-based.

He also may be the only presidential candidate in almost fifty years from whom many Americans would be willing to buy a used car.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: mg
Date: 14 Feb 07 - 10:01 PM

He reminds me of my favorite carpenter on Trading Spaces...Andrew Dan ???Don?? Jumbo. mg

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: wysiwyg
Date: 14 Feb 07 - 10:17 PM

Another thread title in poor taste. Of course I thought it was another cooking thread. That makes TWO cooking threadtitles, abused.

'~)

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 14 Feb 07 - 10:33 PM

Didja notice that FOX News spent hours and hours denying that Obama went to a muslim school, and saying that "some say" that Hillary was behind the rumour. It's a FOX twofer - they get to plant the Obama-muslim link in the mushy minds, and the "Hillary is manipulative" meme at the same time. Picture perfect propaganda. Damn they are good. Instilling one (two!) thoughts (lies) while literally denying them. All but one or two here understand that (and you two probably know exactly who you are!!!!!!!!!).

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: Peace
Date: 14 Feb 07 - 10:44 PM

"WASHINGTON - I hope Sen. Barack Obama remembered to send Australia's Prime Minister John Howard a Valentine's Day card. The PM has done the Democratic presidential hopeful from Illinois a tremendous favor: He has treated Obama's Iraq ideas seriously.
    Perhaps you missed this story amidst cable TV's obsessive search for the father of Anna Nicole Smith's baby."


Rest of the article here.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: mg
Date: 14 Feb 07 - 10:47 PM

I think a magazine, and not Fox news, was the source of Hillary's team as the source of the information. Forget the name of it. I mean the original source. mg

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: Ebbie
Date: 14 Feb 07 - 10:49 PM

Oh, for heaven's sake. I hope -and expect - Mudcatters are too smart to even pass on this kind of gossip. When one knows something to be untrue but passes it on anyway one is part of the problem.

* Barack Obama isn't black (African American) in the same way that most Black people in the US are. His Kenyan father's ancestors were not coerced into slavery.

* Cherokee? Must be from his Kansas mother.

*

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 14 Feb 07 - 11:08 PM

His goose hangs high?

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: katlaughing
Date: 14 Feb 07 - 11:26 PM

If this kind of crap is successful, those of you who gleefully point it out will have to take some of the blame...we have enough fear-mongering through the predictions and dire warnings from ths shrub et al without generating more. I am reminded of the last part of a poem by Ella Wheeler Wilcox (my emphasis):

You never can tell what your thoughts will do
In bringing you hate or love,
For thoughts are things, and their airy wings
Are swifter than carrier doves.
They follow the law of the universe--
Each thing must create its kind,
And they speed o'er the track to bring you back
Whatever went out from your mind.

That goes for WORDS, too.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: Ebbie
Date: 14 Feb 07 - 11:28 PM

Hmmmm. Not all of my post survived the transition.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: Don Firth
Date: 14 Feb 07 - 11:53 PM

The goose is not loose in that sense, m'man. I'm saying he's nowhere near the oven. Not caught yet. May as well put the stuffing back on the shelf.

Check the Leadbelly song, "The Grey Goose" in DT.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: Peace
Date: 14 Feb 07 - 11:56 PM

I am reminded of something I read in the past ten years:

"When you grab a tiger by the tail, you better have a plan to deal with the teeth."

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: GUEST,Dickey
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 12:38 AM

I think Jesse Jackson should be the PM of Canada.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: Peace
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 12:46 AM

FOX news does like to play games. But I think if Obama keeps his cool, the US will wind up with some sort of Edwards.Obama ticket, and that will give y'all a great team to lead the nation.

Hi, Dickey.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 06:35 AM

commercial:
A voice over aks in a deep voice "wHO IS oBAMA" The Aflac goose THEN SAYS "Half Black Half Black"

distasteful or not, it made me laugh when I saw it on the Daily Show

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: John Hardly
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 09:12 AM

My guess is that until we elect a president because he is black, we will be unable to elect a president, based upon qualifications, and ignoring color. The explicit racism of our past is nowhere near as dangerous or pervasive as the tacit racism of our present.

Let's elect Obama and get it over with.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: Greg F.
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 09:35 AM

Worth taking a look at an alternative view of

OBAMA HERE

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: Azizi
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 09:40 AM

FWIW, I've heard people who have one birth parent who is Black and one birth parent who is White described as or describing themselves as "half-white" and/or 'half and half".

But in my 50+ years I have never heard any Black person refer to another person as being 'half-black'. Nor have I ever heard a mixed race person refer to themselves as "half-black". I suppose that this may occur in American communities where there are very few Black people, but I don't think that 'half-black' term is used in more heavily integrated communities or all Black communities in the USA.

After all, what would be the point? In the USA, it used to be a matter of law, and I believe that it's still social practice that if a person has any known Black ancestry, they are Black. Being 'half-black' certainly doesn't cut any ice when it comes to DWB {driving while Black} and other discriminating and down right racist atttudes, occurances and practices.

I think these 'half-black' statements have been planted by folks who want to peel off potentially huge Black support for Barak Obama. Furthermore, I think these statements were made and manufactured in some White factory. And I'm not convinced that Hillary Clinton's campaign is responsible.

It should be obvious to anyone who can see that many {if not most} Black Americans are a mixed race people. And I'm talking about Black Americans who don't have first generational mixed ancestry. I state that we are a mixed race people as a matter of fact and without conferring any positive or negative valuation unto that statement. Therefore, people who are half black or half white or half and half are all full members in the club. At one time or another, all these people have paid their dues or will pay their dues {when they are confronted with the negative BS and sometimes life threatening happenings that occur just because this nation hasn't fully uprooted racism from the core of its being and then extending outward.

For instance, in my opinion the fact that African Americans in the past and still today refer to people as 'half-white' instead of half-black' is more than a statement of fact, but is reflective of the positive valuation that being part white had and still has.

Also, fwiw, in my opinion, the statement that only Black people who have ancestors who were enslaved are African Americans sounds like it was also manufactured in some White factory as a means to divide and conquer potentially huge African American support for Obama.

To state or believe that in order to be African American you must have had ancestors who were enslaved discounts countless numbers of African Americans in the North, South and elsewhere in the USA whose Black ancestors were never enslaved. That statement also discounts the large numbers of people of African descent who have come to the USA since the end of slavery.

I don't have any Southern ancestors who I know of. My father was adopted from New York state, and my mother's family is from the Caribbean. Does this mean that I'm not African American?

Humph!

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: John Hardly
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 09:52 AM

Interesting article, Greg F.

I concur with the idea. The notion that we should somehow just get along -- put aside real differences instead of seriously hashing them out -- is naive at best, and a contrivance for the "progressive" movement at worst (from my POV -- after all, the notion of "getting along so that the government can DO MORE is seen only as a good thing if bigger government is one's goal)

I am all for getting rid of the 95% of public/political discourse that is this horrible, blog-driven, conspiracy-behind-every-public-issue nonsense that passes for political awareness these days. Where shooting down an opponent's ideas is the goal that has totally replaced having ideas in the first place.

But don't take away good, hard-fought, well reasoned disagreement. Don't take away a two-party system (unless you wish to replace it with a three, or four, or five....) just because you're tired of hearing "bickering".

The parties are supposed to "bicker". Political "science" is not that. It's not a science. At its best it is well-informed positions based upon greatest probabilities. I don't believe that one politician or one party has all the answers. Those positions need to be constantly and consistantly battled.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 10:09 AM

Since it is human nature to only read the most recent posts, i remind you that the reason for this thread was to show what the far fetched smear campaigns against Obama have been so far.

When the future smears appear, and they will appear if we talk of them or not, I was musing how we could possibly psychologically vaccinate the nation with good humor so that swift boating will be dead in the water before they begin.


On the Colbert show

When a lady claiming to have written the book about Obama not being a true African American nor having any slave ancestry, Colbert said " Maybe we could put Obama in slavery, not in a racist way but maybe selling him to Jesse Jackson and then setting him free"

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 12:52 PM

I think in England it'd probably be more common to hear the expression "half black" rather than "half white". But Azizi's point that in the US context the term is being used part of an attempt to reduce Obama's backing among African Americans sounds valid. And at the same time appeal to the racist element among white voters.

I like the idea of Clinton and Obama as a double ticket, with a view to reducing the likelihood of the presidential candidate getting shot either during the campaign or following victory. Obama for President, of course. It might reduce the real possibility of assassination - he has been spoken of as having some qualities of a latter day Bobby Kennedy.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: Ebbie
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 12:55 PM

In my truncated post above I had noted that Senator Obama answered a question with "Of course I relate to being black. No one ever let me forget it."

In my opinion, Obama's racial history may be an excellent way to get this country jump started. My thinking is that if Black Americans can accept a Black person as presidential material, even though he or she does not have the same 250-year history as they and at the same time White Americans can accept a Black person as presidential material partly BECAUSE he or she does not have the same 250-year history, we may be on the way to wisdom. It's a start.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: saulgoldie
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 01:45 PM

The campaign should tell us that the right is concerned about Obama, so they are trying already to bring him down so they can fight an easier opponent. BTW, the "half-black" duck bit was already done on The Daily Show with Jon Stewart.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: Azizi
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 03:16 PM

"My thinking is that if Black Americans can accept a Black person as presidential material, even though he or she does not have the same 250-year history as they.."

This misses the point that I tried to make in my 15 Feb 07 - 09:40 AM post.

Let me try again: Black Americans do not have to have any connections with slavery to be considered by us or by others to be Black Americans. [in this context "Black Americans" means the same thing as African Americans", since for the most part, I beleive that those two referents means the same thing in the USA to most Black Americans as well as to most non-Black Americans]

Furthermore, I would certainly hope that regardless of what race or ethnicity a voter is, her or his decision who to vote for as president of the USA-not to mention other elected offices-would be based on a whole lot more than his or her race and gender and the candidates' race and gender, if either's race and gender plays a factor in that decision at all.

And this is an aside, Ebbie, but I'm assuming that you used "250" symbolically, since most history books indicate that enslaved Black people were brought to what is now the USA in 1619, which would be 388 years and not 250 years.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: John Hardly
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 03:24 PM

Azizi,

Don't know where you studied math but 1619 to 1865 is only 246 years.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: Ebbie
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 03:24 PM

I wasn't addressing your point, Azizi (although you are right- I just tossed in 250 years. That was careless.) but what I have heard on political shows recently. Several of them have quoted Black Americans as expressing reservations about what other Black Americans may be thinking.

As for hoping that we - Americans, all - voters will vote on the basis of more than gender, ethnicity or race- of course. But we haven't done that so far- my point is that Senator Barack Obama could open the door smoothly.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: JeremyC
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 03:25 PM

Azizi posted:
Furthermore, I would certainly hope that regardless of what race or ethnicity a voter is, her or his decision who to vote for as president of the USA-not to mention other elected offices-would be based on a whole lot more than his or her race and gender and the candidates' race and gender, if either's race and gender plays a factor in that decision at all.

Absolutely. I have a huge problem with the fact that race/gender is considered an issue in politics.

And am I the only one bothered by the fact that, if Obama wins, it'll be considered a victory for blacks, and he'll be called the "first black president"? Talk about insulting! I'd hate to have my personal achievements co-opted by my race.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 03:38 PM

"250 years" would presumably refer to slavery as such, leaving out what came after that, which wasn't quite slavery.

If Obama is elected president I would anticipate it won't be seen as "a victory for blacks".   Onthe other hand it would be seen, all round the world, as a defeat for racists in America. And a victory for Americans of all colours who are opposed to racism.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: GUEST, heric
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 03:43 PM

>>I'd hate to have my personal achievements co-opted by my race. <<
Yeah it sucks, but that's his lot in life. As he said "No one ever lets me forget it."

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: John Hardly
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 03:43 PM

MofH,

The racists who wear sheets will be seen as defeated. The racists who think that blacks are somehow so deficient that they cannot thrive without government assistance will be grinning patronizingly and patting themselves knowingly on the back.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: Ebbie
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 03:44 PM

Good one, McGrath; I'm sure you are right.

As for being known as the 'first Black US president', by the time they leave office, virtually all presidents are known for their actions.

George W. Bush? Yeah- wasn't he the guy who ruined it for a generation?

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 03:52 PM

Here's Barack Obama's February 10th Springfield Speech on YouTube - Clip 1 Clip 2 Clip 3

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: Ebbie
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 04:54 PM

I had heard excerpts on various shows before but I just now listened to the whole speech. Given a chance, that man will go far. Not only I thrill to the message I love the cadence of his voice; it is reminiscent of so many gone before.

But- he will get death threats. Of that, we may be sure.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: Azizi
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 04:55 PM

John, I subtracted 1619 from 2007.

I'll give you that point.

Re: Black people writing books and/or being on talk shows saying that Obama isn't "really" African American, for some money and power, among other incentives, you can always find somebody to say anything.

My sense is that this "Is Obama really black? question is a politically manufactored hatchet job. I think that Republicans know that regardless who the Democratic candidate is, most Black people will vote for him or her, as oppossed to voting for the Republican candidate. But if the Republicans can peel off some votes from the "Black voting block", then they would have succeeded in the goal of that "Obama's not really black" campaign.

And fwiw, it's too soon for me to decide which Democratic primary candidate I will support.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: Peace
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 05:01 PM

Is he Black? As opposed to what, Chartreuse? What a bloody stupid question.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: Little Hawk
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 05:16 PM

Wow! I just listened to that whole speech. What a breath of fresh air. I'd vote for him if I was an American.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: Peace
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 05:24 PM

I'll vote for him anyway.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 05:30 PM

Everyone recognizes nothing will change the racist vote but the smear campaigns underway will attempt to divide the black vote, will attempt to divide republican/Christian right votes and will try to divide the Democratic party as a whole.

As usual we should expect some kind of alleged sex scandal.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: Peace
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 05:37 PM

A sax scandal? Wow. Will THAT ever be interesting. Might even be enough to take this thread above the salt.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: Barry Finn
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 06:16 PM

I think it's criminal that it's just Feb of 2007 & all the focus is on a campain that's gonna happen in Nov of 2008 more that a year & a half, give us a break, please. I know they need the early jump for campain money but I'd rather limit the money & where it comes from & get on with the business of running/ruining the country now & see how they do for the next year. Th next year is gonna need & take all the best of what we've got to survive, let's see who's gonna shine first. Fine, annonce that they're running & get back to the job at hand. I'd like to see Hillary & Obama but I don't like their stall on the war, I want to see more of what they're doing now & less of what they're gonna do latter. Let the 1/2 Black shit & the Swift Boater's trash sink in the mean time, that's all a waste of air space & they're only preahing to their choirs. It's even troublesome that any of this deserves any air play. Let their actions speak while they can. We can wallow though the stink later & the less time spent on it the better. DOn't drag this out, it only hurts us all.

Barry

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 06:30 PM

The question isn't whether the black population will vote for Obama if he is the candidate, but whether they will show enough support to beat (oh please please do) Hillary in the primaries. mg

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 06:33 PM

and I do not think we show nearly enough respect to people of multi-ethnic backgrounds and I also think we do not show nearly enough respect for people of any minority or majority group to think their own thoughts and come to their own opinions and not be cowtowing to anyone. mg

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: DougR
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 07:56 PM

It's going to be a very long two years.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: Ebbie
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 07:57 PM

You got that one right, DougR.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: Peace
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 07:57 PM

LOL

Hi, Doug. And you are right, it will be.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: Little Hawk
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 08:21 PM

All American elections are way too long, but this one is going to be just plain ridiculous.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: GUEST,Dickey
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 09:27 PM

"I am all for getting rid of the 95% of public/political discourse that is this horrible, blog-driven, conspiracy-behind-every-public-issue nonsense that passes for political awareness these days. Where shooting down an opponent's ideas is the goal that has totally replaced having ideas in the first place."

I agree with that 100%

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: Don Firth
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 09:57 PM

But the same thing can be said, quite accurately, about Fox News Service. "Fair and Balanced" my ***!!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: dianavan
Date: 16 Feb 07 - 01:33 AM

Obama will inspire the youth of America and thats a good thing.

Whether anything will change in the U.S., is another matter. Obama, Hillary and Bush all vow to protect Israel and all three will vie for the Jewish vote in America.

Without a doubt, the Dems have more interest in health and education at home but the question is, will either of them have any money to do anything about it?

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 16 Feb 07 - 07:56 AM

"All American elections are way too long, but this one is going to be just plain ridiculous. "

Think only about the election, and DON'T MENTION THE WAR!




I did, but I think I got away with it....




;-P

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: kendall
Date: 16 Feb 07 - 08:26 AM

It says quite a lot about our society when a persons color is even mentioned, like it was somehow important.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 16 Feb 07 - 08:33 AM

"like it was somehow important. "

... like the political party, rather than the ideas....

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: Greg F.
Date: 16 Feb 07 - 09:16 AM

Anybody read that article I posted?

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: John Hardly
Date: 16 Feb 07 - 09:33 AM

Date: 15 Feb 07 - 09:52 AM

Interesting article, Greg F.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: Mr Fox
Date: 16 Feb 07 - 11:59 AM

Given the average American voter (Hey, c'mon they voted for The Shrub didn't they?) all Obama's opposition will have to do is put up a load of posters with a picture of him and the legend:

"HIS NAME RHYMES WITH OSAMA".

Game over.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Feb 07 - 12:16 PM

Please don't mention his middle name.

Ted Kennedy said Obama's name wrong 4 times in a row while on camera.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: Peace
Date: 16 Feb 07 - 12:41 PM

Greg F, I read it. Sorry not to have commented before. In some ways--well, one fundamental one--I agree with the writer. Concensus does bring things to a homogenized politic. It can lead to watered-down health care, and it's often the old 'you drop the idea of a decent wage and we'll help you pass the health legislation (slightly amended) that you want' game that two-party politics has played for a freakin' century now. However, Hilary is so sucky with everything that there's no hope for the USA there--unless it wants more of the same it's had for decades now. Edwards may have something to add, but he'd need votes to add it. IMO, the Democrats deserve to disappear as a party, but thne I think that of Republicans too. Bastards both of 'em. They were in bed together quiclky enough to do with Iraq, and the Dems didn't seem to object to the Homeland Security Act, so what hope is there for America? Beats me.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 16 Feb 07 - 01:05 PM

Only the faint and dismal hope that people so astute as yourself will come down here and save us. mg

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: Peace
Date: 16 Feb 07 - 01:48 PM

You can keep the sarcasm, mg. We have the same problem in Canada.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 16 Feb 07 - 01:53 PM

There are two tricks in political rhetoric. One is to sell moderate policies to people who are disillusioned with moderate policies, by dressing them up in militant rhetoric. The other is to sell radical policies to people who are scared of radical policies by dressing them up as moderate and consensual.

My feeling, listening to that speech, is that Obama may be aiming to do the latter of those. That's within the USA context of course - in most places round the world those kind of "radical policies" would be seen as very moderate and consensual indeed.

I noted for example where he specifically tipped his hat, so to speak, to the important role trades unions have to play in building and maintaining a decent society.

"It ain't what you say, it's the way that you say it..."

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 16 Feb 07 - 05:17 PM

"the important role trades unions have to play in building and maintaining a decent society."

Funny - that's why they started up - out of a reaction to selfish bastardry by the employers....

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: GUEST,Dickey
Date: 17 Feb 07 - 10:25 AM

Standard #1: Obama + cocaine = acceptable

Standard #2: Bush + cocaine = not acceptable

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: Greg F.
Date: 17 Feb 07 - 10:39 AM

... so what hope is there for America? Beats me.

Beats me too, Bruce. Wish it were otherwise. Never said I was a fan of Hillary's, who, if she is ultimately the Dems candidate in 08, will only insure a Republican victory.

"It ain't what you say, it's the way that you say it..."

More to the point, Kevin, it ain't what you say [to get elected], its what you do [once you are]. With Obama talking out of both sides of his mouth, its hard to tell what he really believes or intends.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: GUEST,saulgoldie
Date: 17 Feb 07 - 11:15 AM

No double standard atall, Dickey. It's because Shrub is such a bald-faced hypocritical liar about it, and Obama is honest and forthright about it. That's why.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: GUEST,Dickey
Date: 17 Feb 07 - 12:14 PM

"bald-faced hypocritical liar about it"

How so?

Standard#1:
Obama writes book for personal gain and confesses cocaine use = Acceptable.

Standard #2:
Bush does not write a book for personal gain confessing cocaine use = unacceptable.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: John Hardly
Date: 17 Feb 07 - 12:28 PM

dickey,

It's quite simple. A very large and meaningful part of Obama's potential constituency (those who would vote for him) find no fault in recreational cocaine use. A very large and meaningful part of Bush's (or any othe Republican candidate, for that matter) potential constituency (those who would vote for him) find fault in recreational cocaine use.

Ditto sexual promiscuity.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: Ebbie
Date: 17 Feb 07 - 12:39 PM

"Standard #1: Obama + cocaine = acceptable

Standard #2: Bush + cocaine = not acceptable" Dick

Obama was in college at the time. Obama admits it. Obama is clear eyed.

Bush was 40 years old before he 'saw the light', hardly the stuff of self-termed "youthful indiscretions." Bush tries to hide it. Bush's eyes are the window to his soul- and his soul is badly flawed.

"Standard#1:
Obama writes book for personal gain and confesses cocaine use = Acceptable.

Standard #2:
Bush does not write a book for personal gain confessing cocaine use = unacceptable." Dick

Where did you get the idea that Obama wrote a book (actually TWO books) in order to confess cocaine use? Have you read either one of them?

"A very large and meaningful part of Obama's potential constituency (those who would vote for him) find no fault in recreational cocaine use. A very large and meaningful part of Bush's (or any othe Republican candidate, for that matter) potential constituency (those who would vote for him) find fault in recreational cocaine use.

Ditto sexual promiscuity." John Hardly

And you know this- how?

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: John Hardly
Date: 17 Feb 07 - 12:45 PM

you don't think it's so?

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 17 Feb 07 - 12:55 PM

All I have read about the USA indicates that it would also be true to say:

"A very large and meaningful part of Bush's (or any other Republican candidate, for that matter) potential constituency (those who would vote for him) find no fault in recreational cocaine use. A very large and meaningful part of Obama's potential constituency (those who would vote for him) find fault in recreational cocaine use.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: able
Date: 17 Feb 07 - 01:14 PM

My sympathies to America in it's search for a new leader, the choices never seem to be all that good, but, eventually do find a leader and this person usually grows into the job. Whoever it is, I can only hope it isn't Hillary, that woman's ignorance of the world could fill an entire library. Ignorance is not bliss, it is a hazard to the whole world. She has far too many personal things on her agenda that she wants to enforce on others, and if she tries, the blood will flow and your young men will pay a huge price.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 17 Feb 07 - 01:27 PM

that woman's ignorance of the world could fill an entire library

For example?

As against Dubya? Well, maybe he's not quite fair competition for anyone who can read without moving their lips. But as against most other members of your Senate.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: Ebbie
Date: 17 Feb 07 - 01:49 PM

No, John Hardly, I do NOT agree. The thinking people I know are for the message born out of the ideals that Obama represents and would vote for any person who embodied them are overwhemingly most definitely anti-drug use. In fact- and oddly, to me - most of the thinking people I know seldom use even aspirin.

This may not have been true for some of them in the past; that is somethng I don't know, in most cases, but I think that is the point: Wisdom develops from learning.

So where is your "very large and meaningful" constituency? And I'm not speaking of stereotypes here but the people whom YOU know- it is easy to spout rhetoric but only opinions that have en element of knowledge within them are worth promulgating.


As for sexual promiscuity, as long as you include the male sex when you talk about it, I will be ready to discuss promiscuity.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: Bill D
Date: 17 Feb 07 - 01:56 PM

Able....Absolutely facsinating what you can decide about Hillary's knowlege & abilities and state so confidently, with little clarification! I have heard her speak & be interviewed on many occasions, and it seems to me she knew quite a lot about the world.

I can't imagine what she has said that indicate she will "...cause young men's blood to flow."

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: John Hardly
Date: 17 Feb 07 - 02:04 PM

Good grief. This is a site full of old hippie-types who cut their adolescent teeth on recreational drug use. There wasn't a single bad thing said about Clinton's having an underling servicing him on her knees -- in fact, here that behavior was praised.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: Ebbie
Date: 17 Feb 07 - 02:17 PM

"...in fact, here that behavior was praised." John Hardly

Sheesh. I must have missed that. Please direct me to a thread where this occurred?

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Feb 07 - 02:40 PM

I never said he wrote a books in order to confess. I said he wrote a book AND confessed.

Where did you get the idea that I did?

I would not buy the book nor do I put credence in books which are written for profit.

I think Old man Bush was the only one that denied George used cocaine.

What did Obama's Daddy say?

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: John Hardly
Date: 17 Feb 07 - 02:44 PM

"Sheesh. I must have missed that. Please direct me to a thread where this occurred?"

I don't think I have to. I think you know I'm right. And I think you know it wouldn't be that hard to find examples.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: Don Firth
Date: 17 Feb 07 - 02:52 PM

Our more conservative friends certainly have some amazing flights of imagination about what they think liberals find acceptable (implying that said liberals find these things acceptable because they all do them themselves). Drug use and sexual promiscuity seem to top the conservatives' "hate parade" and are fastened on with a seemingly ferocious joy (unless, of course, one of their chosen people gets caught—say, Rush Limbaugh or Mark Foley).

For the record:   I used to smoke (cigarettes), but I quit 29 years ago. I drank unhealthy amounts of coffee, but I seem to have suffered no lasting ill effects. I now drink tea, with an occasional coffee (gourmet blends only). I used to drop into the Blue Moon Tavern for a beer or two after an evening's teaching. Now, I may have a beer with friends on a warm summer afternoon, or drink a little wine with meals when we have guests. Those are my "recreational" drugs. Beyond that, I take 2.5 mg. of Norvasc every morning (a prescription drug to control blood pressure—not unusual at my age) and an occasional Acetaminophen.

On one occasion in 1964, when a joint started getting passed around at a party I was attending (an increasing happenstance at the time), after long resistance, I decided to see what all the shouting was about. The only effect it had on me was to make be dizzy for a few minutes and it left a foul taste in my mouth. That was enough for me, thank you. I never tried it again. Nor have I ever tried any other illegal drug. I'm quite sure, however, that if I ran for office, someone would be sure to dig out my "extensive marijuana use."

Although I reject easy labels, I can see why some people tend to cram me into the pigeon-hole marked "Liberal." I think war is the worst possible failure in foreign policy and diplomacy and should resorted to only when attacked by another nation, and it should be waged only against the nation that initiated the attack. Beyond that, I think people (including businessmen and politicians—who should not be the same people) should be honest, open, and fair-minded. I also think that the government has certain responsibilities to its citizens at large, not just to special interest groups.

That's all it takes to get you branded a "liberal cry-baby" these days. No matter how really conservative your views actually happen to be.

Unless someone comes along whom I deem a better candidate, I will probably vote for Barack Obama. But it's early days yet, and lots can happen between now and then.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: John Hardly
Date: 17 Feb 07 - 03:07 PM

"Drug use and sexual promiscuity seem to top the conservatives' "hate parade" and are fastened on with a seemingly ferocious joy (unless, of course, one of their chosen people gets caught—say, Rush Limbaugh or Mark Foley)."

No, actually that's a backwards way of looking at what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that there are still some conservatives who did not learn the lesson of the Clinton years -- the lesson being that there is no scandal -- sexual or drug-related -- that will outrage the liberal base enough to cause political damage to a liberal. It is because sexual promiscuity is accepted as a given in human behavior, and drug use was so pervasive among the liberals growing up in the anti-VietNam-war years, that's it's hard for them to be that outraged by that behavior either.

But because conservatives include among their numbers many who are (I just had to do one of those clever underlines too) outraged by both recreational drug use AND promiscuous sex, they still think they can "gotcha!" a liberal with news of sex or drug use. They cannot. Only those for whom conservatives vote are at risk from that behavior.

It is a double standard created -- not by liberal's lack of standard -- but by conservatives having standards. That is why DUH Foley is not in office anymore but Studds served his whole term.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: John Hardly
Date: 17 Feb 07 - 03:09 PM

see what I get for using the clever underlines?

dang when are the members of this forum going to get editing capability like is offered at EVERY other forum on the internet?

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: Don Firth
Date: 17 Feb 07 - 03:31 PM

John, you have a really warped and inaccurate idea of what went on during the "anti-Vietnam war years" and how most people--including the most liberal of liberals--behaved back then. There was indeed a lot of drug use and promiscuity back then (compared to both earlier and later times), but nowhere near as much as many people like to think. I was there, and I know what was going on. There was also a very large natural-foods, no-drugs movement among the "hippies" back then, but that's not quite as salacious, so it gets ignored a lot.

But the idea of a connection between the "drug culture" and those with liberal viewpoints makes for a convenient (and totally spurious) stereotype to attach to persons whose statements one disagrees with.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: GUEST,Dickey
Date: 17 Feb 07 - 03:31 PM

That was my post on Date: 17 Feb 07 - 02:40 PM


Standard #1:
"Obama was in college at the time. Obama admits it. Obama is clear eyed."

Standard #2:
"Bush was 40 years old before he 'saw the light', hardly the stuff of self-termed "youthful indiscretions." Bush tries to hide it. Bush's eyes are the window to his soul- and his soul is badly flawed."

Standard #1: Cocaine users should be in college and admit it.

Standard #2: Cocaine users cannot be 40 years old, not wite a book confessing to it.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 17 Feb 07 - 03:34 PM

Are you really saying John, that there aren't a fair number of "conservatives" in your country who are quite keen on using recreational drugs and indulging in promiscuous sex? And a fair number of pretty oputitabnical "liberals"?

I would suggest that attitudes on things like that just don't coincide neatly with voting intentions.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 17 Feb 07 - 03:36 PM

Are you really saying John, that there aren't a fair number of "conservatives" in your country who are quite keen on using recreational drugs and indulging in promiscuous sex? And a fair number of pretty puritanical "liberals"?

I would suggest that attitudes on things like that just don't coincide neatly with voting intentions.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: John Hardly
Date: 17 Feb 07 - 03:47 PM

It's not like I'm exposing something that isn't readily evident. Democrats can run in spite of personal vices. Republicans cannot. That is because Democrats merely need to appeal to the more liberal, while Republicans need to appeal to a large number of social conservatives in order to win.

This is silly. It has been evidenced over and over. Clinton's scandal was not even scandalous to his liberal constituency. They cheer blowjobs in the whitehouse. They laughed, joked, revelled in a president who "gets it" (and "gets some").

More to the comparative point -- Studds, having actually HAD sex with pages suffered not at all at the hands of his liberal constituency. Foley, on the other hand, lost his seat and dragged others down with him.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 17 Feb 07 - 03:56 PM

I suppose it depends what you mean by "social conservatuves" - try this for some "social conservatives" who don't seem to fall into that neat analysis - Sojourners: Christians for Justice and Peace Or Google on "Libertarian Conservatives" for that matter.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: John Hardly
Date: 17 Feb 07 - 04:01 PM

"I suppose it depends what you mean by "social conservatuves"

No it doesn't, MofH. You're trying to find a crack in my premise by looking for some obscure exception and adding (for good measure) semantic confusion. It doesn't change a thing. Democrats time and time again weather storms of scandal brought on by their sexual behavior and/or drug use. Republicans NEVER do. You might find an exception. I doubt it. But unless you're trying to just be contrarian, the evidence of what I'm saying is obvious.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: John Hardly
Date: 17 Feb 07 - 04:02 PM

I might also point out for anyone watching, or keeping track of such things, that I just got post #100.

I'm just that good.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: Ebbie
Date: 17 Feb 07 - 04:18 PM

Did you ever hear about the man who couldn't be blackmailed? Because the things other people tried to hide, he bragged about?

I admit I am more scandalized by those who make war without goal than I am about people who have consensual sex. The one is not my business, the other is *everyone's* business. And if you don't know which is which.

And I still don't know where the threads are or what was posted as people "laughed, joked and revelled".

And Dick, to say- if you mean it- that you wouldn't buy a book that was written "for profit", what in the world are you talking about?

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: John Hardly
Date: 17 Feb 07 - 04:27 PM

"I admit I am more scandalized by those who make war without goal than I am about people who have consensual sex. The one is not my business, the other is *everyone's* business. And if you don't know which is which."

See? Adultry is "consentual sex" not scandal.

In addition, if you can say that what someone else does is worse, then there is even LESS than no scandal (if that were possible). So, because of the war there isn't anything short of war that "your guys" could do that would be scandalous. Pretty safe bar you set there.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: GUEST,Dickey
Date: 17 Feb 07 - 04:32 PM

Seems to me that people write "controversial", national enquirer, type books just for the profit.

Describe a "war without goal" please.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 17 Feb 07 - 05:27 PM

"So, because of the war there isn't anything short of war that "your guys" could do that would be scandalous. Pretty safe bar you set there."

Damn right it's a safe bar. Or, are you really going to make the argument that adultery is every bit as immoral as lying nations into a war that kills thousand to hundreds of thousands?

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: John Hardly
Date: 17 Feb 07 - 05:38 PM

No TIA. That's not what I'm going to say. And it's not what I said. What I impied is that the rationale that nothing is, in itself, wrong, so long as I can find something wronger is as juvenile a rationale for evil as the word "wronger"...

....and Ebbie, of all people here, knows better. I find rationalization for all kinds of immoral behavior here........but never from Ebbie. Well, until this.

But, of course, we can all feel good anyway because, after all, I did score post #100.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: Greg F.
Date: 17 Feb 07 - 06:34 PM

Democrats time and time again weather storms of scandal brought on by their sexual behavior and/or drug use. Republicans NEVER do.

Oh, please. The bullshitometer is pegged at full scale.

Or is this simply an example of the fantasy world BuShite apologists inhabit?

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: John Hardly
Date: 17 Feb 07 - 06:38 PM

I would never have thought you had the legs for it, but that cheerleading outfit really looks cute on you, Greg F!

Got anything to add? ...I mean besides, you know, GO TEAM,GO!!! You never add much content to a discussion, but you got the enthusiasm thing down, man!

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 17 Feb 07 - 06:53 PM

In UK politics used to be said that for Tory politicians it was sexual scandals that were harder to survive, and for Labour politicians it was money scandals.

I'm not sure if it's still true. But I don't think anyone would ever suggest that there's any significant difference between the propensity Tory and Labour politicians to behave in ways that invite both sorts of scandal.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: Ebbie
Date: 17 Feb 07 - 07:04 PM

John Hardly, smeone else's adultery is not my business. My president and my government making war IS.

If I become aware that my neighbor is having an affair behind her husband's back I may not respect her for it - but it is NOT up to me to be the one to tell him.

War without goal?

That is a war without a benchmark for success, a war whose reason for being changes as time passes, a war with no exit plan, a war that uses up lives and money with little or nothing to show for it.

And no one knows how it will end.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 17 Feb 07 - 07:23 PM

I suppose if you thought a politician was an honourable and honest person, finding out he or she was a liar and a cheat would have to change your view of them, no matter whether that was personal or political lying and cheating.

I suppose it might be that your Democrat voters are more sceptical about politicians than your Republicans. Less of a sense of betrayal when the truth comes out maybe?

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: mg
Date: 17 Feb 07 - 07:40 PM

the only reason to ever engage in war is to save people from something worse...which is slaughter, rape, enslavement, starvation, and torture and disease, probably all simultaneously. Knowing what will happen in all possible situations is hard to call (lots of the present situation was not hard to call...it is hard to fathom why we didn't impose martial law..read my lips.... not democracy...as we went in and loosen the grip as quickly as possible). mg

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 17 Feb 07 - 08:21 PM

"War without goal?

That is a war without a benchmark for success, a war whose reason for being changes as time passes, a war with no exit plan, a war that uses up lives and money with little or nothing to show for it. "


to put it another way...

'Fanaticism consists in redoubling your efforts when you have lost sight of the original goal.'

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 17 Feb 07 - 08:34 PM

That's also a characteristic of addicted Gamblers. Double your stake when you are losing. If you aren't doing too well in one conflict, you start another.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: Don Firth
Date: 17 Feb 07 - 11:00 PM

Well, I think this thread gives us a pretty good idea of the nature of the campaign and the kind of arguments we can expect.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: TRUBRIT
Date: 17 Feb 07 - 11:48 PM

Going back to Barry's point earlier of - dammit the next election isn't til 2008 -- a word to possibly trying the British system? The PM is, of course, the leader of the party in power at any one time. S/he gets to choose when the next election is held (I think it MUST be within 7 years but apart from that - the incumbent PM gets to pick). Once the date is selected, there is a very short period of time in which advertising may be carried out -- I haven't lived in the UK for a while but it is TRULY a short period (perhaps 45 days?). On Election Day, the total topic is taboo to radio, tv, newspapers etc (easier in a country with one time zone I admit). And THEN, once the election is over and the polls are closed -- the journalists can start commenting on it.

Keeps it in proportion, I think......

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: Ebbie
Date: 18 Feb 07 - 02:56 AM

As I recall, TrueBrit, the US had a variation of that rule at one time. Not TOO many years ago, all electioneering - on television and radio- had to end the day before.

About the only such rule now is that on election day no one can campaign within 200 yards (I think it is) of any polling place, nor can a person wear a candidate's button or hat or carry any other campaign material into a polling place.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 18 Feb 07 - 12:05 PM

Parliaments run five years, not even. The power to choose when to call an election does have disadvantages as well, and periodically there are suggestions for going over to some kind of fixed period system.

One thing that makes a difference here is that there are strict limits on how much any individual candidates can spend, and that is enforced - MPs have lost their seats for going over the limit. There are no limits on what parties can spend, but there is a lot of talk of putting a cap on that as well, because fund raising by parties is recognised as tending towards corruption.

And the fact that no paid election adverts are allowed changes the way elections are fought.

"On Election Day, the total topic is taboo to radio, TV, newspapers etc" Not really so. Some papers do go in for splash stories intended to affect the election. On the day of the 1992 general election the Sun ran a headline saying: "If Kinnock wins today, will the last person to leave Britain turn out the lights." And after the election resulted in Kinnock losing it ran a headline "It was the Sun what done it'.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: Ebbie
Date: 18 Feb 07 - 12:34 PM

Wow. I've never heard of a US newspaper going that far.

Most newspapers here- at least those with which I am familiar - in the weeks ahead detail their 'recommendations'. This is after months of interviewing candidates, running resumes and controversial issues with which that person has been involved.

I am of two minds about that. I like the publishing of candidates' positions and recaps of the candidates' careers but I don't really like the newspaper coming out with its official stance. After all, the newspaper is made up of many disparate views. Why should one view take precedence? Even a consensus has opposition.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 18 Feb 07 - 07:26 PM

The Sun bears more or less the same relationship to a reral newspapers that a Massage Parlour does to a HealthClub.

A bit like Fox News perhaps in relation to TV news.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: TRUBRIT
Date: 18 Feb 07 - 07:48 PM

Note - I did say I hadn't lived in the UK for a few years (to say the least)!!! I think the paid advertising is crucial in the British system (or lack thereof). I remember in my youth very serious politicians like Joe Grimond or Harold Wilson being granted equal TV time with anyone who made enough votes to retain their deposit -- appearing on TV in slots where Screaming Lord Sutch ( a perennial ruuner for election)

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: Riginslinger
Date: 19 Feb 07 - 02:44 PM

Obama's goose isn't cooked. I saw it flying over coastal Oregon yesterday afternoon.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: Riginslinger
Date: 03 Mar 07 - 01:52 PM

And now we learn that Al Sharpton is related to Strom Thurmond, and Obama's white ancestors owned slaves.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: Ebbie
Date: 03 Mar 07 - 02:17 PM

Hey, come on. No one has said that Obama is related to the Thurmonds. What is a matter of record is that Obama's ancestors were held as slaves by Strom Thurmond's ancestors.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: pdq
Date: 03 Mar 07 - 03:00 PM

...from his web site:

Barack Obama was born in Hawaii on August 4th, 1961. His father, Barack Obama Sr., was born and raised in a small village in Kenya, where he grew up herding goats with his own father, who was a domestic servant to the British.

Barack's mother, Ann Dunham, grew up in small-town Kansas. Her father worked on oil rigs during the Depression, and then signed up for World War II after Pearl Harbor, where he marched across Europe in Patton's army. Her mother went to work on a bomber assembly line, and after the war, they studied on the G.I. Bill, bought a house through the Federal Housing Program, and moved west to Hawaii.

It was there, at the University of Hawaii, where Barack's parents met. His mother was a student there, and his father had won a scholarship that allowed him to leave Kenya and pursue his dreams in America.

Barack's father eventually returned to Kenya, and Barack grew up with his mother in Hawaii, and for a few years in Indonesia. Later, he moved to New York, where he graduated from Columbia University in 1983.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: Bill D
Date: 03 Mar 07 - 03:22 PM

from a submission to today's Washington Post about a previous story:

No Ancestor, and No Story

Saturday, March 3, 2007; Page A13


Assuming that each generation produced six offspring (a conservative assumption for a time when 10 to 15 offspring were common), here's how I understand "Sharpton's Ancestor Was Owned by Thurmond's" [front page, Feb. 26]:

Strom Thurmond is one of 2,376 first cousins twice removed of a woman who owned a slave of whom the Rev. Al Sharpton is one of approximately 216 great-grandchildren. While that no doubt is emotionally important to the Sharpton and Thurmond families, it is not exactly front-page news. It strikes me as more like an advertisement for Ancestry.com

Note, too, that the slave-owning cousin is not an "ancestor" of Strom Thurmond, as your headline stated.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: Don Firth
Date: 03 Mar 07 - 04:53 PM

I love it when the "swift boat" crowd rips a hole in their bottoms on the reefs of truth.

Don Firthy

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: Ebbie
Date: 03 Mar 07 - 05:51 PM

The problem is that 'swift boating' is alive and well, and it works. If it didn't, there would be no threads like this one.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: dianavan
Date: 03 Mar 07 - 06:13 PM

Azizi - I think the rumour that Obama is not Black was started by Deborah Dickerson:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/logan-nakyanzi-pollard/blacks-fine-thanks-wri_b_41050.html

Stephen Colbert,

"Is Barack Obama black?

DD: No he's not, in the American political context, black means the son of West African, the descendant of West African slaves brought here to labor in the United States. It's not a put-down, it's not to say that he hasn't suffered. It's not to say that he doesn't have a glorious lineage of his own. It's just to say, that he and I, who am descended from West African slaves, brought to America. We are not the same."

John Hardly -

" Democrats time and time again weather storms of scandal brought on by their sexual behavior and/or drug use. Republicans NEVER do."

If that is true, it is probably because the Republicans (conservatives) consider themselves the moral majority and use religion as a platform. Democrats (liberal) are more secular.

Why are you surprised?

ie: If a politician uses hate of homosexuality to score political points and is then caught making sexual advances to men, he becomes a laughing stock.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: Donuel
Date: 03 Mar 07 - 06:45 PM

Obama responded (paraphrased from my memory)
"We expect absurd accusations but we are going to hit them hard and often with the truth over and over again... and truth will win"

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: dianavan
Date: 03 Mar 07 - 07:15 PM

good response.

The truth is, the colour of a person's skin is irrelevant.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: Peace
Date: 03 Mar 07 - 07:16 PM

Friday, March 2, 2007 10:19 p.m. EST
McCain, Obama Make Deal on Financing


Reprint Information
Clinton's Pardons an Issue for Hillary


McCain, Obama Make Deal on Financing


Sens. John McCain and Barack Obama have agreed to accept just public financing for the general election if they are the Republican and Democratic nominees for president in 2008.

Under current federal regulations, candidates can receive taxpayer funds for the election. In return, they are not allowed to raise or spend any additional funds. Some candidates may be able to raise as much as $500 million in private money for the 2008 race, according to the New York Times, and rejecting the public financing.

Under the agreement, each campaign would be limited to $85 million for the general election. Obama proposed the idea in February, and the Federal Election Commission approved it Thursday.

McCain's campaign chairman told the Times that he welcomed the decision."

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: Peace
Date: 03 Mar 07 - 07:16 PM

BTW, it looks to me like Obama is the cook. NOT the goose.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: Riginslinger
Date: 03 Mar 07 - 07:54 PM

Obviously Sharpton didn't get his quick wit and charming personality from the Thurmond side of the family.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: Ebbie
Date: 03 Mar 07 - 07:57 PM

Riginslinger, I hope that you are being facetious in harping on the "relationship" and not just not paying attention.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: Donuel
Date: 04 Mar 07 - 10:08 AM

I said that Obama's goose is cooked.

It is:

Obama's goose is cooked to a delectible crisp golden brown with both white and dark meat.

In this age of mad cow disease it beats milk and beef by a parsec.


The only person I know who is truely black enough is Lewis Black.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: GUEST,Dickey
Date: 04 Mar 07 - 03:10 PM

How would Usama vote?

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: Peace
Date: 04 Mar 07 - 03:10 PM

What an idiot.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 04 Mar 07 - 03:52 PM

For the record, I think Barack Obama is a bit of a star.

But re the title of this thread: perhaps he'd like to post the recipe...? There's a very good recipes thread at the moment.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: Ebbie
Date: 04 Mar 07 - 04:31 PM

Dickey, it's going to be hard for you to rise up to respectability, huh.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: Stringsinger
Date: 04 Mar 07 - 04:45 PM

Kat, I second the motion. Let's eliminate the "rhetoric" wherever and whenever we can.
I like the poem.

Bottom line: The military industrial complex has syphoned American resources into the "black hole" of Iraq and will do furthur damage in invading Iran.

All the social policies advocated by any candidate can't be funded as long as these military agencies control our government.

All of these candidates can't make independent decisions because they are the marionettes of the Corporate strings.

Ralph Nader is looking better to me this year.

I will vote for a Sheehan, Kucinich ticket in either order.

Frank

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Mar 07 - 12:36 PM

Pressure cook goose for 2 years in a brew of nuts and noodles.
Serve crisp and golden brown on a bed of truth.


PS
Hillary - the other white meat.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: Ebbie
Date: 05 Mar 07 - 12:51 PM

And that means?

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: Dickey
Date: 06 Mar 07 - 03:02 AM

Standard #1: Negative Bush cartoons = acceptable

Standard #2: Negative Obama cartoons = unacceptable

"Gertrude Bornstein of Palm Beach, Florida appeared on TV Thursday morning to say she accidentally voted for Pat Buchanan on Election Day. Asked who she intended to support, she replied, "Al Gore and Al Lieberman""

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Mar 07 - 12:45 PM

Ebbie

someone asked for a cooked goose recipe.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: Ebbie
Date: 06 Mar 07 - 01:17 PM

I meant your remark anent Hillary Clinton.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Mar 07 - 01:18 PM

Hillary - the other white meat ?

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: Ebbie
Date: 06 Mar 07 - 01:48 PM

Yes

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Mar 07 - 08:00 PM

NEWSMAX.COM* claims that Obama bought $5,000 worth of stocks in a avain flu drug company and latter voted for advantages for that drug company.

Yep, underwear is being thrown against the wall in hopes that a pair will stick.





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Joe Offer is it kosher to change the name of this thread to
Obama is cooking...

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: KB in Iowa
Date: 09 Mar 07 - 12:08 PM

"Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: John Hardly - PM
Date: 17 Feb 07 - 04:01 PM

Democrats time and time again weather storms of scandal brought on by their sexual behavior and/or drug use. Republicans NEVER do. You might find an exception. I doubt it."



We may get a chance to find out about this very soon.



WASHINGTON (AP) -- Former House Speaker Newt Gingrich was having an extramarital affair even as he led the charge against President Clinton over the Monica Lewinsky affair, he acknowledged in an interview with a conservative Christian group.

"The honest answer is yes," Gingrich, a potential 2008 Republican presidential candidate, said in an interview with Focus on the Family founder James Dobson to be aired Friday, according to a transcript provided to The Associated Press.

"There are times that I have fallen short of my own standards. There's certainly times when I've fallen short of God's standards."

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Mar 07 - 01:25 PM

Don't go there

If all the republicans that were having affairs while impeaching Clinton were to go public, cable news might have to do fewer Anna Nichol News.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's goose is cooked
From: Wolfgang
Date: 13 Mar 07 - 07:55 AM

America Too Racist for a Black President? (DER SPIEGEL interview with Rev. Jeremiah A. Wright Jr., Obama's pastor)

SPIEGEL: Do you think he will be President in two years?

Wright: No. unless Barak pulls off nationally what he was able to pull off locally, and wins the hearts and minds of people who have been perennially anti-black. Racism is so deeply engrained in this country that he could be flawless in terms of his policies. But he's still a black man in this country, which has a sorry history in terms of how it sees African-American males. That's my 65-year-old, jaded perception of where this country is. I was pleasantly surprised in the Senate election. I would like to be as pleasantly surprised in the presidential election.

Wolfgang