 sj |
||
|
||
BS: Declining Standards of English
|
|
|
Subject: BS: Declining Standards of English From: bubblyrat Date: 05 Mar 07 - 08:33 AM This morning, I opened my Yahoo page, and almost immediately encountered a news headline that said " STORM REEKS HAVOC "----Has anyone else been as similarly shocked ( and outraged !! ) as I was ??? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Declining Standards of English From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 05 Mar 07 - 08:38 AM Bubbly Rat |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Declining Standards of English From: GUEST,Canadienne Date: 05 Mar 07 - 08:46 AM Increasing usage of duplicate/repetitive exclamation marks etc. Wasn't there something about this intolerable assault on our sensitivities recently? :-) |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Declining Standards of English From: Jean(eanjay) Date: 05 Mar 07 - 08:54 AM Yes, when TV presenters say "I was sat ........" |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Declining Standards of English From: clueless don Date: 05 Mar 07 - 08:58 AM I have the impression that some newspapers (including my own Washington Post) have essentially stopped using editors, leaving the reporter herself/himself to run spell check and then print the story as is. Perhaps I am wrong, but the Post often prints letters in its "Free for all" letters column on Saturdays pointing out grammtical/usage mistakes in stories. Don |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Declining Standards of English From: Scrump Date: 05 Mar 07 - 09:06 AM This is the result of years of Tory mismanagement of the education system, which Labour has been gradually putting right over the past ten years (the evidence being that exam results have improved year on year since Labour took over). |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Declining Standards of English From: Jean(eanjay) Date: 05 Mar 07 - 09:18 AM I disagree with that Scrump. There have been too many changes and different "fashions" for teaching and both parties have been guilty of that - like the idea that pupils should not be taught to learn times tables off by heart. I'm now looking through what I've written to try to make sure my grammar is OK! |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Declining Standards of English From: Scrump Date: 05 Mar 07 - 09:20 AM Oops eanjay, I forgot the :-) ;-) |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Declining Standards of English From: Jean(eanjay) Date: 05 Mar 07 - 09:22 AM Nice one :-) |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Declining Standards of English From: GUEST,lox Date: 05 Mar 07 - 09:55 AM you fink .. but I dunno ... |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Declining Standards of English From: Leadfingers Date: 05 Mar 07 - 09:56 AM When was the last time you heard any one actually say 'JEWELLRY and NOT Joolery ?? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Declining Standards of English From: folk1e Date: 05 Mar 07 - 10:01 AM Don't forget any language that is relevant will eveolve. You (and I) may not like the particular use it is put to at the moment but just consider what it would be like if we all talked in "old english" Personaly I get an inordinate amount of humour from hearing my American friends attempt to say words that are imported from "forign" languages and therefore spelt differently! Life Bueoy Boy / Beueouey Alluminium Al u min ium / Alluminum Birmingham Birmingam / Birming ham Then again I expect they quite enjoy my mangling of "their" lexicon. I suppose that all language (eccept Legaleese) is a form of communication and if the meaning is conveyed the purpose is served! |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Declining Standards of English From: Amos Date: 05 Mar 07 - 10:02 AM Umm...Terry...I think it is spelled jewelry. Oh! Well, I looked it up and lo and behold its another one of those words the wrong-headed colonists have run off with and made up their own spelling for! "Jewellery (spelled jewelry in American English) consists of ornamental devices worn by persons, typically made with gems and precious metals. Costume jewellery is made from less valuable materials. However, jewellery can and has been made out of almost every kind of material. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewellery" |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Declining Standards of English From: The Borchester Echo Date: 05 Mar 07 - 10:03 AM I'd spell it JEWELLERY or, if in the US, JEWELRY. But I'd probably say BLING cos it's quicker. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Declining Standards of English From: kendall Date: 05 Mar 07 - 10:35 AM We have, among other irritants, a local weather reporter who insists on pronouncing "especially" as if it had an X instead of an S. Expecially. Drives me batty! Even experienced narrators are apt to say Anartica or artic. Then there's the wildlife expert who can't pronounce "Orangutan" right.They insist on sticking an extra G on the end. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Declining Standards of English From: Hollowfox Date: 05 Mar 07 - 10:43 AM The one that really jolted me was the use of service as a verb. This was from a speaker at a professional training day, and the speaker, with a straight face, said that we here at the library serviced our patrons. I'd only heard this word as a verb when a brothel or the artificial insemination of cattle was involved. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Declining Standards of English From: Big Al Whittle Date: 05 Mar 07 - 10:49 AM I really don't think I care. I was taught all that at school. However I think it was just another excuse to beat the shit out of us. Another reason they could think they were superior to the peasantry they were fated to teach. Whenever I see a journalist who doesn't know the difference between two, to, and too; or they're, there and their - I think well done mate! At least you didn't get fooled into accepting their crap values about what is important, like I did. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Declining Standards of English From: Scrump Date: 05 Mar 07 - 10:50 AM I hate radio announcers who say "the smawning"/"the seevning" instead of "this morning"/"this evening". |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Declining Standards of English From: Bee Date: 05 Mar 07 - 11:00 AM No copy proofing is done anymore, except with spellcheck, leading to frequent misuse of words. 'Reek' is a properly spelled word, just the wrong one. A human proofreader would have caught it and replaced it with 'wreak'; spellcheck doesn't catch such things. I wouldn't blame poor spelling on the modern education system, though: my dad went to school in the thirties and couldn't spell to save his life. I could spell correctly very early, semmed natural and easy, but my brother struggled to remember word spellings. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Declining Standards of English From: GUEST,Janine Date: 05 Mar 07 - 11:02 AM Heard on BBC Radio 4 (who should know better)- 'academic consumers'. What ever happened to students? Annoying too is syllable dropping: p'lice, p'lite etc And why is 'target' used as a verb for just about everything from giving aid to shooting somebody? Jan PS Just going to target the tea |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Declining Standards of English From: GUEST,meself Date: 05 Mar 07 - 11:07 AM I'm with you, WLD, but I'm a-feared we're in a distinct minority in this august company. That being said, however, whenever I hear someone say [insert favourite objectionable word, phrase, or pronunciation from this or previous threads on the subject], it makes me want to have a peasant flogged! |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Declining Standards of English From: Bill D Date: 05 Mar 07 - 11:15 AM " STORM REEKS HAVOC "- ...*grin*...I suspect this was the result of someone noticing that they had been saying "WRECKS HAVOC", and telling them verbally to get it right, instead of spelling it out. You gotta 'splain deeze tings in plain langwidge. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Declining Standards of English From: GUEST,Seiri Omaar Date: 05 Mar 07 - 11:15 AM I saw "straight" (the term the guy meant) being spelled "strait" in a paper in a second-year university paper. Which led my roommate to cry, "Oh, the Bering! Oh, the Bering!" and laugh himself silly. Yey for HUMAN proofreaders! |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Declining Standards of English From: able Date: 05 Mar 07 - 11:17 AM I lost track of the number of grade 12 graduates who even had post secondary education that I had to let go, because they couldn't read or write. In Canada, it appears that we have an egalitarian educational system that requires everyone to graduate. This, in spite of the fact that they should have been stopped at grade three as they used to be. Now, grade 12 means they put in the required 12 years. The reason for this decay is simple, only 10% of people are intelligent, the remainder are not. The 90% got tired of being on the outside looking in. Give it another fifty years, and an IQ of 90 will be above average intelligence. Thankfully, I won't have to be around to tolerate this. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Declining Standards of English From: Midchuck Date: 05 Mar 07 - 11:18 AM "Network" is a noun. "Fund" is a noun. "Data" is a plural noun. The singular is "datum." But nobody cares.... Peter. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Declining Standards of English From: GUEST,Seiri Omaar Date: 05 Mar 07 - 11:22 AM Evolution of the language? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Declining Standards of English From: Scrump Date: 05 Mar 07 - 11:25 AM I wouldn't blame poor spelling on the modern education system, though: my dad went to school in the thirties and couldn't spell to save his life. I could spell correctly very early, semmed natural and easy, but my brother struggled to remember word spellings. Some people seem to be good at spelling (I like to think I am :-), but there are plenty of people who have difficulty with it, and there always have been. But I still think some of the 'progressive' teaching methods in the past couple of decades or so has not helped to improve people's spelling. Spell checkers have helped make it easier for people to 'get away' with not being able to spell, but as has been pointed out, it wouldn't have stopped the howler that started this thread. Now, the threat of a damn good thrashing if you spell a word wrongly would help to focus these young whippersnappers' minds on getting it right :-) |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Declining Standards of English From: GUEST,meself Date: 05 Mar 07 - 11:30 AM Spell checkers? That's easy: c-h-e-c-k- ... |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Declining Standards of English From: katlaughing Date: 05 Mar 07 - 11:31 AM Anyone else noticed whether their local tv news is always presented in the present tense? Our local does that and it drives me nuts! They also post their news stories online, exactly as they broadcast them on tv. It does not translate well and they are full of grammatical and spelling errors. I am sure both of my old English teachers are in a constant turning over in their graves. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Declining Standards of English From: Dave the Gnome Date: 05 Mar 07 - 11:33 AM It's just because they can't talk proper like what I does. :D |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Declining Standards of English From: GUEST,meself Date: 05 Mar 07 - 11:47 AM "I am sure both of my old English teachers are in a constant turning over in their graves." If they're anything like the other teachers that people here seem to admire so greatly, they're probably burning in hell for all the "damn good thrashings" they gave to kids who had trouble with spelling. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Declining Standards of English From: Michael Date: 05 Mar 07 - 11:48 AM Katlaughing; It's because they are all living in the passed. PS I note you were taught Old English, can you still speak it? Mike |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Declining Standards of English From: Scoville Date: 05 Mar 07 - 11:54 AM I think it's actually "WREAKS HAVOC" * * * * * That HPV vaccine commercial that repeats 'One less, one less' over and over drives me insane. ONE FEWER, YOU ILLITERATES. And I heard on NPR this past Saturday that somebody is lobbying to change the proper possessive of "Arkansas" to "Arkansas's", despite the fact that proper possessive for words ending in "s" is well established to be, in this case, "Arkansas'". * * * * * I'm not even that big a language snob. Some people cannot spell. My best friend, who reads voraciously, writes well, and can hardly be accused of being illiterate, is not a natural speller. I don't care how people talk in informal settings, what colloquialisms they use, how incoprehensible are their accents, etc., but people and media in formal and professional contexts should know proper English. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Declining Standards of English From: bubblyrat Date: 05 Mar 07 - 12:00 PM Two years ago ,I worked in a theatre that had,among other interesting facilities, a "Principle Dressing Room " in which there was a sign, over the sink (drainer ) asking people to " wash there cups after use " . I would have said something,but it was against my principals !!! |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Declining Standards of English From: Bernard Date: 05 Mar 07 - 12:03 PM Some newsreaders' lazy pronunciations: Burglary becomes burgulry... Or is it just me? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Declining Standards of English From: Desdemona Date: 05 Mar 07 - 12:04 PM I'm actually studying Old English now; they didn't give a rat's ass about "proper" usage in the ways we think of it (no standardized spelling, spaces between words, lines of poetry, etc.). It's also pretty exciting to wait til quite near the end of a sentence to find out what the verb is! In terms of Modern English, however, my own pet peeve is the use of an apostrophe when the writer means to make something plural. It makes me absolutely crazy, and really inspires me to take the sort of guerilla punctuation action advocated by Lynne Truss in "Eats, Shoots and Leaves," to wit: carrying a large black sharpie at all times to correct such abominations as "Ice cream sundae's sold here." Ice cream sundae's WHAT sold here? And WHO is Ice cream sundae, anyway, and why aren't all three of his or her names capitalized? I'm ever more convinced that the "Zero Tolerance Approach to Punctuation" is long overdue! ~D |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Declining Standards of English From: wysiwyg Date: 05 Mar 07 - 12:09 PM At least once a week we pass a sign inviting us in to come in and sing Karkoe. We pronounce it kar-koh-ee. I'm convinced it's a new technique. One of these days I'm gonna call them up and ask where to get good karkoe tracks. I think we may never be able to say "karaoke," correctly, again. ~Susan |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Declining Standards of English From: GUEST, heric Date: 05 Mar 07 - 12:14 PM I think it's rotted haddock. I was suffering through this stuff just yesterday due to a counselor's spelling of counsellor. I done figured out that in Commonwealth English, words that end in -l preceded by a vowel usually double the -l when a suffix is added, while in American English the letter is not doubled. However, for words where two –ll's are preceded by a vowel, the American spelling will retain the doubled consonants when a suffix is added, but, in Commonwealth English, the second –l is dropped when a suffix is added, as in enrollment/ enrolment, skillful/ skilful. I agree with weelittledrummer that it is hard to give a shit. But then I again, I am just noticing that placement of punctuation marks (esp commas) relative to quotation marks and parentheses is transpondally divergent as well, which is going to torment me. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Declining Standards of English From: Donuel Date: 05 Mar 07 - 12:15 PM I could understand... Sewerage Treatment plant REEKS havoc. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Declining Standards of English From: Amos Date: 05 Mar 07 - 12:31 PM You could understand it, but you'd still be off base grammatically. Havoc is a chaotic condition and has no referent to olfactory experience; further, the verb to "reek" does not take an indirect object without the preposition "of". You could say that the havoc reeked of sewage, or the plant reeked of havoc (with a little poetic license). But "reeks havoc" is meaningless. A |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Declining Standards of English From: Donuel Date: 05 Mar 07 - 12:38 PM It goes without saying but\ there are many examples of headline puns that are intentionally mispelled. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Declining Standards of English From: GUEST,heric Date: 05 Mar 07 - 12:40 PM The seweráge reeked havocilly, an unholy olfactorial pastiche. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Declining Standards of English From: catspaw49 Date: 05 Mar 07 - 12:48 PM Hey Amos.......Does y'all think that a leek could reek? Jus wundrin Spaw |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Declining Standards of English From: Bobert Date: 05 Mar 07 - 12:49 PM Well, gol danged... What the heck is this all 'bout, anyway??? Next thing ya' know you'all gonna want to put up cameras in everybody's bedrooms... I mean, let's get real here fir jus' one minute: language is an ever evlovin' thing an' I know there's plenty o' folks who don't believe in no evolution 'cause they is into this "design" thing where God taught up Adam and Eve the Queen's English they way that God wanted it spoken and never to be changed... But guess what??? No don't, I'll tell ya'all what instead... There ain't nuthin' in the Bible 'bout the Queen 'er her English... I done read it!!! Now ifin' you'all gonna go get yer panties in a wad over this then fine... Wad away but... ...you all come 'round my joint tryin' to install no cameras in my bedroom 'er try to relearnt me up an' ya' better pack several days worth of lunches and bring alot of folks wid you and a lotta duct tape, too... Bobert |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Declining Standards of English From: Bill D Date: 05 Mar 07 - 12:49 PM An old question to test knowlege is: "What is the present tense of 'wrought'?" and, of course, there are two correct answers. In regard to God ("What hath God wrought?"), it's 'wreak'...while in regard to iron, it's 'work'. Now, I am quite aware that spelling does not come easy to some people, even if they try. I have a good friend who has a HIGH government position, but who has serious dyslexia and cannot spell well....but he does know words! Listening, you'd barely know he has a problem. Many years ago, I realized he was saying 'wif' for 'with', because he genuinely had heard it wrong, and most of his comprehension is verbal. What upsets me are those who know they have a problem and do nothing about it....even refusing to USE a spelling checker or look up a word before they toss it into conversation, or, worse yet, a TV program or sign. There is a fine line between 'local usage and pronunciation' and 'obstinate cultivation of ignorance'. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Declining Standards of English From: kendall Date: 05 Mar 07 - 12:51 PM Language was invented so we can communicate with each other. So, when someone misspells a word, it slows down the reader, and when there are many misspelled words, it gives one a headache trying to slog through. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Declining Standards of English From: The Sandman Date: 05 Mar 07 - 12:52 PM thaw touba eth enilced fo gnalskcab,. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Declining Standards of English From: Big Al Whittle Date: 05 Mar 07 - 01:16 PM was anyone in serious doubt, that the storm smelled |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Declining Standards of English From: Uncle_DaveO Date: 05 Mar 07 - 01:36 PM Scoville told us, in part: And I heard on NPR this past Saturday that somebody is lobbying to change the proper possessive of "Arkansas" to "Arkansas's", despite the fact that proper possessive for words ending in "s" is well established to be, in this case, "Arkansas'". Au contraire, mon frere! Your "well established to be" principle is one side of a long-running controversy. Strunk & White's The Elements of Style, long a standard and respected reference, gives as its VERY FIRST rule the following: "1. Form the possessive singular of nouns by adding 's." (Note, that's the singular, not plural.) "Follow this rule whatever the the final consonant. Thus write, Charles's friend Burns's poems the witch's malice Exceptions are the possessives of ancient proper names in -es and -is, the possessive Jesus', and such forms as for convenience' sake, for righteousness' sake. But such forms as Moses' laws, Isis' temple are commmonly replaced by the laws of Moses the temple of Isis" And it goes on with pronomial possessives and the its/it's problem. As to Arkansas' and Arkansas's, it should be noted that "Arkansas" is pronounced "Arkansaw", and to spell it Arkansas' is thus wrong on any account. The apostrophe has no phonetic value of its own, so that a possessive such as Kansas' (if you like that approach) should not be pronounced "Kansas's". Dave Oesterreich |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Declining Standards of English From: Amos Date: 05 Mar 07 - 01:41 PM A storm smells of ions, of salt, of water in the wind. It may, poetically, reek of chaos and imminent harm, even of death on the march. But, to be pedantic, I doubt a storm smells anything. It is too busy being chaotic to organize anything as delicate as an olfactory sense organ. I know these distinctions seem terribly dull and pedantic. But they are the subtle paths and switches of communication. Ignore tham at your peril -- when you cut down your communication, you cut down your own power and life-force in the world, to some degree. A |
