So thats seth lakeman is it

Subject: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Andy Jackson
Date: 07 Mar 07 - 03:45 PM

Hmm??? Another pop artist who's lost his way.
And the proof is of course that poor deluded MH says it's brilliant fantastic and his favorite track. Oh and the CD has sold millions "not bad for a folk cd"
FOLK ??????? I don't think so!!!!

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 07 Mar 07 - 03:54 PM

Ooh the folk police will be after you boy bach!
Giok ¦¬]

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: melodeonboy
Date: 07 Mar 07 - 04:06 PM

I persevered for a minute or so and then I had to turn it off. Irritating in the extreme. Shame really; the song itself sounded quite interesting.

Cue: endless replies from Seth fans, who will no doubt say one or more of the following:

1. I begrudge him his success

2. He's the new voice of folk and therefore one should enjoy it

3. I'm a fuddy-duddy

4. He's popular and must therefore be good

5. He's turning a new generation on to folk music

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: treewind
Date: 07 Mar 07 - 05:01 PM

Not on your 'A' list for Miskin at Easter, then Andy?

We heard him at the club tent at Cambridge Folk festival last year and he sounded just like 1000 other wannabe folk stars.

Anahata

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: English Jon
Date: 07 Mar 07 - 05:07 PM

Well, he's not my cup of tea, but I have to applaud him for what he's doing - if it opens up "pop" audiences to the possibility that "folk" isn't all arran sweatered men with beards and fingers in ears then he's doing us all a favour.

Just don't ask me to listen to it! lol

Jon

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 07 Mar 07 - 05:21 PM

Geoff and Joy Lakeman used to be residents at Herga, and have made a great contribution to the Herga history page, about Sean dancing to the High Level Ranters at Herga before he was even born.... Seth may yet get back to his roots?

Kitty

PS I heard Chumbawumba tonight on the MH show singing "Hard times of old England".

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: GUEST,Wayne
Date: 07 Mar 07 - 05:54 PM

Each to his/her own! I reckon Seth Lakeman's music is fab! Hugely exciting, rhythmic, lyrically interesting and yes folkie. Lakophobes will think me a cloth-eared tosser but I don't care.

Now, Jim Moray, I would burn as a heretic!

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Geordie-Peorgie
Date: 07 Mar 07 - 05:54 PM

Aah hev te say that he's not my cup of tea but neither is Jim Moray but they ARE takin' the folk 'thing' forward - even if it diz sound like a pop song.

Remember the furore when Dylan went electric? People calling him 'Traitor' - Aah wez at Newcastle City Haall on that tour and wondered what the hell the whinge was aboot!

There wez a whole 'thing' about Steeleye Span electrifying 'trad' folk but it raised an awareness for thoosands what might not hev gone doon that road.

Aah've seen Seth Lakemen a few times when aah've been stage managing a concert here and there and hev thought "Aah wadn't buy a ticket for this gig" - but that's my preference and taste.

Ye cannit deny the fact that he's got a talent AND a followin'.

Shurrup and lerrim hev his fifteen minutes of fame coz next year he'll be Jim Moray!

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Folkiedave
Date: 07 Mar 07 - 07:13 PM

Lovely lad and would not hear a word said against him. I don't even like what he does on Freedom Fields, but that's his choice.

He has been brought up a folky, steeped in traditional music, don't see the problem.

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 08 Mar 07 - 03:32 AM

I found Mike Hardings favourite Seth track repetetive and irritating, I couldn't make out the words and had to turn it off after 30 seconds, for a nearly 30 something he comes accross as trying to be a teenybopper, on the other hand I thought the Chumbawamba song was brilliant.

eric

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: skipy
Date: 08 Mar 07 - 03:54 AM

Lakeman "the Marmite" of folk music!
Skipy

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Scrump
Date: 08 Mar 07 - 04:08 AM

My 5p's worth: I like him, as I've said before many times in the "White Hare controversy" threads.

He puts on a good stage show (helped by his excellent band) and provides good entertainment. He's a talented lad and deserves the success he's got by working very hard. If some of the whingers who begrudge him his success worked half as hard as he does, they might get somewhere themselves. He hasn't been handed success on a plate like a lot of these crap pop stars, he's had to work to get where he is.

I may not like all his songs, but on the whole I think he does more good than harm - he brings the young people in, and helps them discover there's more to music than the crap they hear on Radio 1 or in the nightclubs.

(If anyone thinks I'm a hyprocrite - having written that song about that song - I reiterate that I have nothing against Seth or his song, just the fact that the Folk Awards organisers picked it as a traditional song when it plainly isn't.)

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Sugwash
Date: 08 Mar 07 - 04:10 AM

Doesn't say much for the attention span of Mudcatters: a minute, 30 seconds.

It saddens me that Mudcat is becoming a forum for the airing of personal prejudice.

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 08 Mar 07 - 04:20 AM

I think you're confusing prejudices with tastes Sugwash. In common with one or two other contributors to this forum, I detect an air of, 'If you don't like what I like, you have no taste' in your post.
I have only heard one track by Mr Lakeman, and I didn't like it, but I do not presume to condemn his whole oeuvre on the basis of that. It is equally unfair to condemn a whole site on the basis of one or two contributions with which you disagree.
G.

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: The Sandman
Date: 08 Mar 07 - 04:27 AM

Sugwash,favorite singers are always a matter of subjectivity,there are several singers I dislike but that doesnt make them bad singers.
if someone doesnt like a performer it is not prejudice[prejudging]its
a matter of taste,if we all liked the same thing,life would be pretty dull.[but if his diction is bad then technically he is a bad singer]
There are people out there who dont like me and people that do.I dont lose any sleep over it,and im sure Seth Lakeman doesnt either,all the time people are talking about him its giving him publicity.
Iwould rather listen to Jeannie Robertson,or Sonny Boy Williamson Tony Rose, Nic jones ,or Carthy,Each to their own.

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Scrump
Date: 08 Mar 07 - 04:44 AM

I'm quite happy if people here don't like a particular artist that I happen to like - we all have different tastes, as the Cap'n and others have said above.

I would hazard a guess that hardly anyone else likes all the artists or music that I like (given that I have wide tastes in music, not just folk, but pop, rock, jazz, country, classical, opera, and other genres). I like all the artists listed by the Cap'n above, and a lot more (as I'm sure he does too). But I'm not going to waste my time persuading people that "X is good" if they don't like "X".

On the other hand, I feel entitled to 'support' an artist in a discussion like this one, where there are some people making negative comments - I feel it's only fair to put the positive side if I can.

What I would say regarding Seth Lakeman, is don't judge him on just the White Hare. Bob Dylan has made some bum tracks in his time - if you heard one of those, and only that track, and then said "Dylan is rubbish" on that basis, I expect many people would jump to Dylan's defence and point to some of his superb output.

I suppose what I'm saying is - it's not fair to judge an artist on the basis of hearing just one track. Listen to the whole album and then say he's rubbish if you still think that :-)

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Sugwash
Date: 08 Mar 07 - 04:49 AM

Prejudice: unreasoning opinion or dislike (OED). The only reasoning in the original post seems to be that Mike Harding likes it. To be truthful, Mike Harding likes every track he plays "I thinks that's simply smashing!", he's an enthusiast.

I don't believe I expressed an opinion on Seth in my post. Of course personal taste is subjective, but surely one should try to be objective in expressing opinions and not base them solely on unreasoning dislike.

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: McMullen
Date: 08 Mar 07 - 05:00 AM

well one things for sure , you eithr love him or hate him, and he stays so focal because theres such a divide, personally i find him extremely anoying in character (ive been told hes an arse) and his voice sounds (without predujice) extremely anoying, and his songs are designed for idiots with trendy haircuts just like him. im only 18 and in the folk world and my age group in folk seem to like him, i just find it all very brown nosing and bummy.

theres my crude two cents

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: McMullen
Date: 08 Mar 07 - 05:04 AM

also if any of you have music tv, the video of him playing his fiddle in a pouring shower making his t shirt and body all tight and sexy for teeny bopper girls makes me want to vomit and kill myself. i dislike his music just as much as i dislike rap or some other mashed out, regurgitated, un original nonsense.

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: McMullen
Date: 08 Mar 07 - 05:04 AM

give me an ugly shane mcagowan anyday.

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Sugwash
Date: 08 Mar 07 - 05:17 AM

If only I had some Lakeman videos to send you.

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Scrump
Date: 08 Mar 07 - 05:25 AM

I haven't watched any of his videos - they're not something that interest me, and from the description above it's probably just as well. But I wouldn't want to allow the videos to influence my opinion of him or his music.

ive been told hes an arse

Maybe so (although I'm not quite sure what you mean by that) but I found him just a fairly normal friendly guy and pleasant enough to talk to, like the great majority of folkies are in my experience.

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 08 Mar 07 - 05:28 AM

the chickens are coming home to roost.

The phoney 'tradition' was always just a way of excluding people from folk music. This is middle class turf - plebs keep off it!

They can hand out as many MBEs, and Mercury prizes, and folk performer of the decade awards as they like; cordon off the folk music radio programmes as no go areas for ordinary singer/songwriters; give out Arts Council subsidies and commissions and send the unlistenable off on cultural exchanges to places where they still have a culture.

the vast generality of people just ain't buying it.

As Winston Smith said, if there is any hope - it is with the proles (on tour at a folk club near you!)

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 08 Mar 07 - 05:34 AM

I know, it's only Rock and Prole, but I like it?
G.

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 08 Mar 07 - 05:46 AM

I brought my blog over for you from Myspace.

Some fabulous music whilst you curl up with your coffee... ;0)

Seth's Myspace 96, 000 viewings....and rising!


THIS is Seth Lakeman Andy!


>>>>Seth Lakeman in The Great Hall at Exeter University
Current mood: ecstatic
Category: Music


This is about Seth Lakeman's gig of December 14th 2006:

Even I was surprised! This was a queue the likes of which I've not seen in a very long time. It stretched and stretched, right around the Great Hall of Exeter University. We actually stood in the wrong one to begin with, only to find we were in the one where people were hoping to be able to get tickets..(ha!)

After a while though, we finally got in...going past the big 'Tour Bus' as we reached close to the door, and we remembered back to Seth's old white rusty van, that barely made it to some of his gigs.....and a warm smile passed over our faces....

And there it was, The Great Hall, within the University Campus. Filled! Everyone standing this time, which is the only way to experience a Seth Lakeman gig, because it's impossible to keep still with those rhythms.

The whistles and yelling started before Seth even stepped onto the stage...before the lights had even gone down....but then...go down they did...and the shouting increased...

Out came Sean, Ben and Alison (apologies if I've Alison's name wrong there...didn't quite catch it)....and then..out came Seth. The same old Seth. Black T shirt and jeans, slightly bemused at the reception that was all around him. His crowd just went completely out of their minds with happiness!

On came the red lights and out came 'The Riflemen of War'....The pounding beats reverberating around that hall and right through Seth's crowd! Seth's tenor guitar found it's way over to Sean's....Boom! went Ben on his double bass and Alison, who was standing in for Cormac, brought the beat out even further...We all swayed to the rhythms......Up went the cameras, everyone seemingly want to record as much of the show as they could. The wonderful 'Blood Upon Copper' and Ben's banjo now sang strongly with Seth's fiddle!

When the 'Lady of the Sea' sailed out...Oh Boy...you could have heard the roar of approval down in Plymouth! I looked around at this mainly young audience...some older people too though...and children...and I was astounded at how many people were singing along with Seth...All these young people in Devon singing songs about their heritage, at long last..

The lights turned blue, then green, scanning us, scanning the band....then going behind them....the waves started to appear behind them on the curtains...as the lights became the sea and The Lady started her voyage of doom, surrounded by mermaids...waiting to take the dead to their watery graves.

The White Hare bounded over from Bodmin Moor, and people turned away, scared to look her in the eye, for fear of their souls being taken away to God knows where, as she bewitched them with her charms, for after all, Seth's people are Devon people, they know of the dangers that lie out on the moors.....The Colliers came next and again, so many young people dancing to and singing about The Gresford Mining Disaster.

http://riseuplikethesun.tripod.com/id17.html

I thought about what Steve Knightley (from Show of Hands) had said earlier in his set, about last year, when he'd been to see Seth playing here as a support to The Levellers and now..here Seth was, filling The Great Hall all on his own!

And I thought back further, about six months prior to that when we'd seen Seth at The Cygnet Theatre, about 100 seats, half filled...and the red light they had on the stage that day was one that Sean and Seth had picked up in the local Oxfam shop earlier in the day, a heat lamp....but it was all they could afford and it did the job....Then I looked back at the stack of beautiful coloured spotlights that now surrounded them....and I smiled! I went back even further....to a few years ago at Abbotsbury, to SoH own festival...to the time I first saw Seth Lakeman...and I knew then that he was going to be a star....that he had something 'special'....

I described him then as being 'like a firework'...and he still reminded me of that last night, fizzing and sparkling. The speed he plays at is incredible. But now...now I'd also add the word 'scorching' to Seth's music!

The band went offstage and the lights went down further...and there he stood, this young lad who has caused such discussion on this board and others..this young lad who is bringing young people in by the thousand now....The crowd knew what was coming, and the excitement was palpable!

Out came the fiddle...and out came Kitty Jay!

www.legendarydartmoo...

Over from Manaton Cross she flew, leaving her grave for one more time, to stand beside Seth...to stand beside the man who has brought her back to life, who has finally told her story and somehow given her soul some peace....and Seth's bow was shredded before he even started to sing...The crowd stood mesmerised...I looked around at their faces...they were fixed upon him, hypnotised...by both Kitty and Seth!

His shredded bow now looked like Kitty's hair...against the dark background...Kitty's hair floating all around him.....People were barely breathing!! Everyone had stopped dancing...a silence had came over us all....Seth played and played, faster and faster...until you felt that he'd disappear in a plume of smoke...and then suddenly he just STOPPED!!

And that was when the cheers could be heard up in John O'Groats! The applause reached the same place as Seth's fiddle playing.....beyond boundaries!

Of course, he HAD to come back to play an encore...and indeed he could have played two or three or more, if they'd let him. But throughout it all, he was the same polite, reserved young man he's always been.

I left that hall knowing once more that I'd seen something quite extraordinary...but this time I left it knowing that hundreds and hundreds of young people knew EXACTLY the same thing!

And I remembered a comment I'd heard at the beginning from someone outside "Gosh, I thought we'd just be able to walk straight in!".....

No...probably never again either...Seth Lakeman's Star has finally arrrived. This man is not just a star, he will be far beyond that....

The folk world should be so proud of him...and rejoice in the fact that at a Seth Lakeman concert the sea of heads is not OLY grey, but brown, black, blonde, red, highlighted, funky, modern and very young!

Absolute Magic!<<<<


Lizzie :0)

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 08 Mar 07 - 05:51 AM

Oh...and I need to add here...that at that same gig, Steve Knightley performed solo. I wasn't sure how the young crowd would take to Steve..but they went WILD! And...when he sang 'Country Life' and 'Roots' the applause, screams and whoops could have been heard down in Land's End....

Show of Hands and Seth Lakeman are setting much more than The West Country on fire...but first and foremost, they are giving The West Country BACK it's roots and it's pride!

Be negative by all means if that's what turns you on...and obviously there are many people who won't like their music...but never forget that there are thousand upon thousand who do....and that number is growing on an almost daily basis for both Seth and Show of Hands...whether some of you may like it or not....

Lizzie :0)

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 08 Mar 07 - 06:01 AM

Here she comes, taking over another thread with her Pollyanna postings.
G.

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Scrump
Date: 08 Mar 07 - 06:04 AM

In my opinion Adge Cutler and The Wurzels, Shag Connors & The Carrot Crunchers, and Cyril Tawney preceded Messrs Lakeman and Knightley (good as the are) in giving back the West Country its roots and its pride. The Lakemans (or should that be Lakemen?) and SOH are simply continuing the tradition - good luck to them.

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 08 Mar 07 - 06:12 AM

>>>Here she comes, taking over another thread with her Pollyanna postings.
G. <<<<<

Oh sorry....

"Seth Lakeman's dreadful...He should be banned from singing...He's just a boy band look-a-like....He's not folk music...Neither are his brothers....or Cara Dillon...or Kathryn Roberts...They signed for Warner Brothers..we can't forgive them that...and now he's with EMI...he's a very bad boy...and we true 'folkies' don't like him....but we will book him for our festivials...because then...we can make lots of luvverly money out of him...but no..we....don't like Seth or his music...or his family...or the west country..or show of hands...or anyone who likes them...we like US...and only US...that's why we stay in small groups and hang out in strange places called folk clubs..where no-one over the age of 40 will ever find us...moan moan...moan..."

There you go MacKenzie! All better now! :0)


PS...FREEDOM FIELDS is a SENSATIONAL CD to take to the gym with you...because of Seth's pounding rhythms...Heck that Cormac Byrne is fanatastic at drumming!

PPS...Oh..Woops! Sorry.....

"Freedom Fields is a naff CD...and Seth's videos are naff too...as are his songs...his looks...his voice...and his personality....."

There we are.. :0)

And I like Cyril Tawney's song too Scrump!

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Scrump
Date: 08 Mar 07 - 06:24 AM

That song would be Sally Free And Easy, I guess, Lizzie? :-)

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 08 Mar 07 - 06:34 AM

"Here she comes, taking over another thread with her Pollyanna postings.
G."


Where did I criticise Seth Lakeman in that post ?

"Just because they're no actually getting at YOU, it doesn't mean you can't feel paranoid"


G

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 08 Mar 07 - 06:35 AM

Lizzie, why use one word when a thousand will do, please please learn brevity, brevity is the soul of wit.

eric

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Sugwash
Date: 08 Mar 07 - 06:35 AM

Point of order, Cyril was from Gosport in Hampshire which is stretching the west country thing a bit. Of course he did more than most for folk music in the west country and was one of the most encouraging men I ever met, a great musician and a fellow ex-submariner.

I would guess that he was as revolutionary as Seth when he first began singing, at least in an English context.

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Wyrd Sister
Date: 08 Mar 07 - 07:24 AM

"video of him playing his fiddle in a pouring shower"???   How can he DO that to a fiddle??

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 08 Mar 07 - 07:29 AM

That was my first thought too WS ¦¬]
G

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 08 Mar 07 - 07:50 AM

Maybe that was the point at which he reputedly damaged the family fiddle beyonfd repair...or so another young folkie was telling me recently.

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Folkiedave
Date: 08 Mar 07 - 07:51 AM

Clearly not an electric fiddle!!

I was a Lakeman brothers fan way back when Sean was at University and Seth was still at school.

All the people who have known him as an artist think both he and his band "are lovely". One of those people is my daughter who has spent the past few years in artist liaison at major festivals and is now a full time professional festival organiser. And she isn't a teeny bopper.

I am with Scrump on this one. My argument against the White Hare was that it was not a traditional song. That's all.

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: The Sandman
Date: 08 Mar 07 - 07:53 AM

Cyril was born in Gosport,.
I believe, when he was a submariner he was based in plymouth, devon.
Brenda Wooton,was from Cornwall and popularised a lot of Cornish songs,Tony Rose was from Dorset,and was a tremendous singer who popularised a lot of west country songs,as of course did the Yetties.
Cyril was not revolutionary, neither is Seth.
If you want revolutionary music, investigate Leon Rosselson.

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 08 Mar 07 - 07:54 AM

"My argument against the White Hare was that it was not a traditional song. That's all."

...and that that doesn't make it A BAD SONG. Or place ANY value judgement on it whatsoever. It just means it should not have been nominated for a particular award.

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Scrump
Date: 08 Mar 07 - 07:58 AM

Point of order, Cyril was from Gosport in Hampshire which is stretching the west country thing a bit. Of course he did more than most for folk music in the west country and was one of the most encouraging men I ever met, a great musician and a fellow ex-submariner.

You're right, Sugwash. I mentioned him because he did a lot for west country folk as you say (in particular the Plymouth/Devonport area).

Although most people don't regard Hants as part of the west country, I always thought it was spiritually so. I spent some years growing up in the county as a lad and the accents there in those days were very much what most people associate with those counties further west. You wouldn't know it today though - like a lot of other counties, the local accent seems to have all but disappeared except among older folk.

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Scrump
Date: 08 Mar 07 - 08:04 AM

Yes, Cap'n, I could have included Brenda, Tony and the Yetties as having participated in "giving back the West Country its roots and its pride" along with the others I mentioned. I'd like to add Trevor Crozier too - and before anyone objects, I know he was born in Hants too (see my comments on Cyril Tawney above). But he did a lot for west country music too.

Ruth - agreed 100%!

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: dj bass
Date: 08 Mar 07 - 08:33 AM

My 5p worth is the same as Scrump's 5p worth (04:08am above)with the addition that sometimes I think he sounds a bit like a sheep. Maybe he learned that on Dartmoor!

I suppose that's 6p worth.

dj

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Sugwash
Date: 08 Mar 07 - 09:07 AM

Of course Cap'n Birdseye, you old tease, I used revolutionary in its first sense, involving great change, not its second, leftish pinko agitator. Not that I'm suggesting the Leon Rosselson is leftish, pink or, indeed, an agitator.

CPO Tawney was on a submarine in the First Submarine Sqaudron (SM1) based in his home town of Gosport, Hants.

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 Mar 07 - 09:39 AM

I think he's OK. I'd rather hear his music on the popular radio than some of the other 'pop' stuff. Mind you, in a straight contest between Mr L and Kaiser Chiefs he would be a poor second (and third and fourth...) to the Angry Mob.

If it came to WATCHING pop stuff however give me Kylie M or Gwen Stefani any time:-)

Dave

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Scrump
Date: 08 Mar 07 - 10:43 AM

Yes, I'd rather watch Kylie or Gwen - or both, for that matter - fiddling in the shower than Seth :-)

...ahem! I'll get me coat.

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: greg stephens
Date: 08 Mar 07 - 10:55 AM

Well, I went to see young |Seth for the first time the other day, at the Sugar Mill in Stoke(apart from a brief view of Equation many years ago).
Firstly, he's amazingly good at playing the fiddle fast while singing something different. I would rate him alongside Kate Barfield for singing while oplaying the fiddle.
Secondly, he's always talked about as being a west country boy from darmoor. Is this true? Now, I don't know that much about Dartmoor, I'm from Exmoor and we didn't go south much. But is that really how they talk on Dartmoor these days? If so, it's changed.
    Thirdly, there were admittedly an awful lot of middle-aged men in beards at the gig, even though the venue is a full-on music place, Pete Dhorty gigs and your boots sticking to the floor. But, notably, there were a lot of young people there too. Perhaps not proper young, but Seth's sort of age.
    Fourthly, his fiddle style. Someone earlier in this thread referred to him being steeped in trad music. The thing thast struck me was the reverse: his fiddle style seemed to me totally classical. And, unusually among folky fiddle players, he never included any trad tunes(or bits that sounded like trad tunes).
    Fifthly someone earlier in this thread(weelittledrummer) seemed to imply that Seth Lakeman was a working class phenomenon, disliked by the middle-class folkies. Well, I would make a shrewd guess that the lad's parents are not dustmen, miners or farm labourer,
judging by the way he talks, stands, and writes.
    Sixthly, he's a bloody good showman. The breraking bow hairs on the hot fiddle number, with special lighting to catch the flying hairs and rosin dust was great.
    Seventhly, he's got twon nice tenor ghuitars.
    Eightly, good luck to the lad, I wish him every success.
    Ninthly: of course White Hare wasn't a trad song. John Leonard is off his trolley if he thinks it is.
   Tenthly: all publicity is good publicity. he does well.

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Scrump
Date: 08 Mar 07 - 11:05 AM

A good summing up greg! I agree with nearly all you say.

On the point about his fiddle style, I thought it sounded classical too, although I'm not an expert. I think he comes from a musical background though, as far as his parentage is concerned (I believe his parents are folk musicians but I forget the details). I also doubt his parents are miners, but what 'class' they are I don't know.

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Andy Jackson
Date: 08 Mar 07 - 11:08 AM

Hmm I rattled a few cages there then!
It just happened that that was the first time I had ever heard anything from Mr Lakeman. (Mike H. show, Wed 7th)
I had followed the threads about the White Hare nonsense, but I am capable of making up my own mind about what I like.
I did NOT like my first experience of Seth. And that track did not come into my brief of folk music.
So far I haven't liked 100% of what I have heard from him. (which shows how daft statistics are!)

My ears are still open, and I don't wear blinkers or hold prejudice of any sort. We shall see.

Andy

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Morris-ey
Date: 08 Mar 07 - 11:35 AM

>>From: McMullen - PM
Date: 08 Mar 07 - 05:04 AM

give me an ugly shane mcagowan anyday.<<

Is there a handsome one?

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Scrump
Date: 08 Mar 07 - 11:39 AM

Well his mum thinks he is :-)

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 08 Mar 07 - 12:16 PM

You may be able to find Shane McGowan, but mostly he can't find you, or anyone or anything (except maybe his glass or spike and works).

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: The Sandman
Date: 08 Mar 07 - 12:38 PM

Geoff Lakeman, Seths father was a journalist for the Daily Mirror.Geoff is a good Duet concertina player ,or he was when I last saw him in 1985.

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: dj bass
Date: 08 Mar 07 - 12:43 PM

Seth's dad was a journalist on the Express. Believe it or not, he was in a folk duo with Alistair Campbell - yes he of No10 Spin fame - when they were both young journos.

At one time you could catch Mum and Dad and the 3 boys. All 3 currently make a living from "folk" which is a blooming hard thing to do.

Seth has a new PR person who, I understand, works him rather harder than he has been hitherto used to. I have a couple of his albums, which I enjoy listening to from time to time, but I am very ambivalent about his contribution to folk. But then, the few people who know me are ambivalent about mine.

dj

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Folkiedave
Date: 08 Mar 07 - 02:07 PM

Seth's dad was a journalist on the Express

He worked on the Mirror when I knew first met him in the 90's.

And they had a family ceilidh band as I remember.

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Brakn
Date: 08 Mar 07 - 02:20 PM

quick google.....

Geoff Lakeman, covered the West Country for 28 years for the Daily Mirror and before that the Daily Telegraph.
Spin doctor, Alastair Campbell, is a close friend.

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: GUEST,bricky
Date: 08 Mar 07 - 03:55 PM

So ,working class then.

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 08 Mar 07 - 04:22 PM

As in New Labour is that?
G.

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Folkiedave
Date: 08 Mar 07 - 04:37 PM

Stick to Seth otherwise we will have bloody Lizzie on here...I didn't know his Dad's class affiliations.

Any more than I would ask yours..................

What matters here is music..Politics is below the line....

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: GUEST,bricky
Date: 08 Mar 07 - 05:17 PM

Fair point, but it's pertinent here given that one of the arguments around Seth is whether or not he's a gifted musician or a product of some skilful p.r. and media manipulation .
I think he's charismatic and an ok singer . I didn't know the alistair campbell link.

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Folkiedave
Date: 08 Mar 07 - 05:31 PM

I sat with Seth in the company of a lot of musicians including fiddle players and when they heard him play they were gobsmacked.

He was 16 at the time. He has taken twelve years to become an overnight success.

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: pirandello
Date: 08 Mar 07 - 05:50 PM

More power to Seth and the breath of fresh air he brings to folk music. Much as I like folk music in most of its incarnations there is a hardcore of fundamentalist folkies (Arran jumper, personal pewter tankard, finger in ear) to whom anything new and different is anathema, frowned upon and dismissed as 'unauthentic'.
Folk music is, by its nature, organic; songs and tunes grow and mutate through interpretation over many years and anything new brought to the table should be applauded and encouraged if it adds to the rich variety of music we enjoy.
You can like it or dislike it according to personal taste but don't dismiss it just because it doesn't fit in with your perception of authenticity.

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Folkiedave
Date: 08 Mar 07 - 06:49 PM

Arran jumper, personal pewter tankard, finger in ear

Well I haven't seen an Arran sweater at a folk festival, session or to be honest anywhere else in about twenty years. Pewter tankards are everywhere here in Sheffield the home of pewter. No folk singer EVER puts their finger in their ear...........

Are all your stereotypes so out of date, and misinformed?

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Effsee
Date: 08 Mar 07 - 07:56 PM

Aran...ARAN... west coast Irish islands...nothing to do with Arran!!

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: melodeonboy
Date: 08 Mar 07 - 07:58 PM

I'm with you on this one, Miskin Man, although I've actually heard two songs by him as opposed to your one! I share your sentiments.

Pirandello: have you been to a folk "event" in the last twenty years? I'd be interested to know where your idea of "fundamentalist folkies" comes from (along with the apparent dress code!).

Guest, bricky: I think the answer to your first sentence (embedded question) is "both". Charismatic? I wouldn't know; I've never seen him.

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Andy Jackson
Date: 08 Mar 07 - 08:07 PM

Pirandello:
chck Miskin at Easter
for my personal choice of music before you stereotype me.
Tracy Curtis makes me tingle. Seth made me yawn. But as I said I will listen to something else of his with interest.

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Jack Campin
Date: 08 Mar 07 - 09:26 PM

The only thing I've heard of his was that "White Hare" crap.

What's "fresh air" about it? Warmed-over version of the sort of stuff Joan Armatrading and Cat Stevens were doing 30 years ago.

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Folkiedave
Date: 09 Mar 07 - 04:42 AM

I think the thing is that Seth (who remember took about twelve years to become an overnight success)has become popular, and at the age of 29 is at last making some money from his music.

I certainly don't begrudge him that and whilst his music is not particularly to my taste, neither is much music to my taste.

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: GUEST,Bainbo at work
Date: 09 Mar 07 - 04:52 AM

Oh for folk's sake. It's no wonder this board can get a reputation for being negative and grumpy - though I have to say, it's mostly us Brits.

Some people enjoy young Lakeman's music. Some of us don't. Get over it - listen to something you do like. He's not doing any harm, he's doing what he feels is right, and he's making people happy.

I know people are only expressing an opinion, but the cumulative effect of reading the whole thread makes us sound like a right bunch of whingers.

And that's my whinge, just to add to the effect!

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: The Sandman
Date: 09 Mar 07 - 05:06 AM

Everyone makes their own decisions in life.
I could have made a lot more money if I had chosen a more Commercial direction,Ichose not to, I have NO regrets.
Seth has made a decision to be more commercial,it is possible he may bring a wider audience to go beyond his music as groups such as Fairport and the Spinners did,time will tell.
I dont like his music, but he probably doesnt like mine,im happy with that,personally I think he is inconsequential,But if he gives people pleasure[he is an improvement on Westlife]and brings a new audience to appreciate other folk/blues traditional music,good luck to him.http://www.dickmiles.com

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: GUEST,North East Folkie
Date: 09 Mar 07 - 05:06 AM

'a hardcore of fundamentalist folkies (Arran jumper, personal pewter tankard, finger in ear) to whom anything new and different is anathema, frowned upon and dismissed.....'

For those who don't believe these still exist, visit Whitby (UK)during festival time or some of the surrounding folk clubs. Personal tankards dangling from belts using little hangers tailor made for the purpose. However, most of these people are 'getting on' and are the founders of the folk world we enjoy today. Not to my taste but I respect their views and ways - they probably dislike my 'modern' versions but are too polite to say!
They also add greatly to the 'olde worlde' atmosphere of Whitby and is why thousands of tourists visit every day!

Live and let live - we are all FOLKIES!!

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Scrump
Date: 09 Mar 07 - 05:37 AM

Live and let live - we are all FOLKIES!!

Well said NEF. That motto should be engraved on Mudcat as a reminder to the Whingeing Willies we often see around here (OK, I'm a grumpy old bugger myself sometimes, I know!)

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: greg stephens
Date: 09 Mar 07 - 05:46 AM

My speculations as to Seth Lakeman's class were purely because a poster to this thread characterised Seth lakeman as a working class phenomenon, as opposed to the middle-class old school folkies. That caused to wonder if the staement was true in any way. Personally, it is of no concern to me whether he comes from a family of dustbinmen, or his dad's the Duke of Dartmoor.
    The Arran sweater reference phenomenion is interesting. The last reliable spotting of any significance would surely be the Clancys and Robin Hall asnd Jimmy McGregor, back in the 60's.This must be a splendidly long-lived journalistic cliche,perhaps one of the all-time greats: worthy of study in itself. I notice it is used by a poster called Pirandello. What age would you be? Could you tell us if you have been using this phrase since the 60's, or recently picked it up? And if so where?
    An extraordinary feature of this kind of discussion is the number of people(small but notable) who insist that we "ought" to enjoy some kind of new music (in this case, that of Seth Lakeman). Why? It's a matter of taste whether you like it or not. Why "ought" I to like Seth Lakeman? Why "ought" I to like the Arctic Monkeys? Missionary zeal can be quite exhilarating, but it can also be a little disturbing. And this kind of "ought" mentality seems to get confused in some people's heads with whether they classify the music as folk music. Just because someone likes Seth Lakeman's songs, why "ought" they to classify them as folk music. The two things aren't really logically connected. I like the Mikado and Beethoven's 6th Symphony, but that doesn't make me wish to welcome thewm into the fold of folk music. "Good" and "folk" are not synonyms, surely?

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 09 Mar 07 - 05:57 AM

At many festivals the beer is served in PLASTIC glasses, I can't think of a better reason for carrying your own tankard than that!
As for the Aran sweater, methinks it's a rare sight indeed, anywhere.
Giok

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 09 Mar 07 - 06:03 AM

Er...Seth sings folk songs....and he sings good folk songs...and he's writing 'folk songs of the future' just as SoH are. Doesn't that make him a er...folk singer?

And...his songs are good. So that makes him a Good Folk Singer.....

AND he's just won Folk Singer Of The Year...so that makes him a BLOODY GOOD FOLK SINGER!


YAY! Seth wins all over again Greg! ;0)


And yes Scrump...it WAS 'Sally Free And Easy'. As with so many other songs and artists, it was Show of Hands who led me to Cyril Tawney... :0) :0) :0)

Great post Pirandello...The Folk Fundamentalists/Terrorists/Dimentors are ALL AROUND me like mosquitos!

Bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz......SPLAT!

Yippeeeeeee! There goes another one!   :0)

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Sugwash
Date: 09 Mar 07 - 06:13 AM

My daughter, when she was younger, liked the modern beat combo 'Busted'; appalling, I know. But through Busted she investigated their cited influence 'Green Day'. From 'Green Day' she went on to the 'Ramones' and from the 'Ramones' she's got into more bands than I can keep track of.

My point is that, even if you don't care for Seth's music, perhaps other (younger?) fans may investigate his influences and discover Barry Dransfield or the many other artists who have shaped the Lakeman style. My way into the music was the Dubliners, now I spend far too much on recordings by often obscure artists within (sometimes only tenuously) the 'folk' genre. If Seth is the trojan horse that gets new blood into the folk world, I, for one, would be happy.

If, as North East Folkie states, we are all FOLKIES, we should welcome the success that Seth is having; even if some of you don't like the messenger, surely you can appreciate the message. Just so long as they the new recruits don't grow beards, develop a taste for woollen wear and beans and choose pewter as the material of choice for their drinking vessels (only joking).

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Mar 07 - 06:15 AM

Is this the same Lizzie that was not going to say another word?

Except of course to mention Show of Hands on a thread that has nothing to do with them...

:D

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: GUEST,Tom Bliss
Date: 09 Mar 07 - 06:18 AM

Good points Greg.

One thing I think people misunderstand is the importance of history. We all make our own value judgements on any music - and measure how much we like it. That's purely subjective and based on an entirely personal reaction.

But there is a second element within folk - antiquity.

A lot of people ALSO notice and admire the age of a work - exactly as an admirer of a antique furniture is attracted by the patina of an old piece. Indeed there are many who are actually more intrigued by the provenance of a song or tune than by its quality - just as one might admire some old chair for its age even if it's uncomfortable to sit on.

Some people may not even be very interested in new music, precisely because it can't bring that connection to times past which is the very thing that excites them.

It's a shame that others misunderstand this.

Quite resonably, the fact that the gene-pool of old music we call The Tradition is under threat does sometimes make its champions rather more defensive at times than may be helpful. But as a writer of original and 'trad-style' material, I would never decry anyone for preferring the real thing.

It's unreasonable and reactionary to demand that a lover of folklore should have to admire modern culture.

Yes it's all just music - but some of it also happens to be something else. Which has value too.

Tom

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 09 Mar 07 - 06:37 AM

There's a strong link Dave. Not only in the way both acts are treated by the er...fundamentalists, but also SoH have been incredibly supportive of Seth these past few years. And I was merely responding to something Scrump said about a Cyril Tawney song.

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Scrump
Date: 09 Mar 07 - 06:42 AM

I agree with Sugwash's point above, that if young people are drawn towards folk music by way of Seth Lakeman, that's a good thing and that makes him a good thing for folk music - regardless of whether you like his music.

I was drawn into folk music myself by the likes of Lonnie Donegan and Bob Dylan. I'm sure a lot of the old folkies around in the early 1960s must have frowned upon both these artists as "not proper folk" and "too commercial" or whatever - similar criticisms that are being levelled at SL today.

In my case they led me to investigate other American and British folk artists, attend folk clubs, discover new types of music (to me), etc. etc. and I was hooked. I'm sure many young people will do similar things by listening to SL.

Oops got to b****r off now, back later

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it? I believe it is!
From: GUEST,Liz
Date: 09 Mar 07 - 07:18 AM

So here's my fivepenneth, I met Seth a few years ago, when helping at a local festival, a quiet and unassuming young man and shy, but he and his pal Benji sat in a sweaty little room in our local high school the day before his performance on the mainstage, (he wasn't a headline just a young and up and coming musician - we always encourage those at MFAB) and with a handful of kids nearly the same age as himself and from start to finish - they wrote a song, yep all the lyrics and set it to a tune, which they played together at the end of the day. I called in a couple of times during the day. I was enthralled. I wonder if one of those kids still has the song tucked away at home somewhere? I couldn't get Seth to do a school workshop this year! But he is playing my mainstage!

Check out Middlewich Folk and Boat Festival website Middlewich Folk and Boat Festival 15th - 17th June

Future folk? I don't care what you call it, it is good quality music from a young man who can knock it out live.

Good luck to him!

Liz

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Mar 07 - 07:36 AM

Middlewich Folk and Boat Festival 15th - 17th June

Blue clicky thing doesn't work on post above, this one should do it, if it doesn't - you know where to find us!

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Scrump
Date: 09 Mar 07 - 07:36 AM

As for the Aran sweater, methinks it's a rare sight indeed, anywhere.

Do we think the Aran sweater is yet another casualty of global warming?

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: SqueezeMe
Date: 09 Mar 07 - 07:46 AM

Wouldn't last long in it touring Oz...

MC

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 09 Mar 07 - 07:50 AM

Cost may be a factor !!
G

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: SqueezeMe
Date: 09 Mar 07 - 07:51 AM

Apologies for my last post. My wife has reminded me I have one in the wardrobe. (Probably won't fit these days, but I might grow back into it!)

MC

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: SqueezeMe
Date: 09 Mar 07 - 07:54 AM

Cost? Wow! Mine's on eBay tomorrow :-)

MC

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: GUEST,DaveS at work
Date: 09 Mar 07 - 08:07 AM

Oddly enough when Equation signed their major recording deal some years ago and recived massive media coverage one of the comments (attributed I believe to Mrs Lakeman) that most of the newspapers picked up on was that the group wanted to get away from the folk image of Aran sweaters and real ale,doubtless sandals and fingers in ears were mentioned too, yet here we are all these years later discussing Seth's success and these trite old stereotypes are still trotted out. As regards Seth Lakeman I saw him just under two years ago playing at Off The Tracks festival in Castle Donnington, which actually doubles as a Real Ale Festival, where he played two open air sets in the most atrocious weather conditions, performing almost to an empty courtyard as the audience had to huddle round the periphery to keep out of the storm, yet never once did his performance dip below total professionalism as he gave it his all. That won my admiration and I am pleased for his success.
Not wishing to be pedantic Geordie but you'd have been better off watching Dylan at Newcastle Odeon that night; the City Hall was in 1965 - I was at both.

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Mar 07 - 08:17 AM

No-one at all posted anything on this thread about Cyril Tawney until AFTER your postings about SoH Lizzie. You need to sort out your basic facts if you want to weave the tangled web. It's quite easy really - Just look at past postings. They are all there to see.

Anyway. No point arguing. This is a thread about Seth Lakeman. Not about Show of Hands, not about Cyril Tawny and not even, believe it or not about Lizzie Cornish. By far the majority of posters have been very possitive about him. All those old wrinklies who hate him don't really seem to exist or, at most, seem to be in a small minority. Again, just read the thread. ALL of it.

And yes - I have an Aran Sweater - It is not a simple one though. As well as all the cabling etc. It has a Sheep on the front. Sort of embroidered but done it wool (of course) I only wear it when I go to Yorkshire or Wales...

Cheers

Dave

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Folkiedave
Date: 09 Mar 07 - 08:18 AM

And I was merely responding to something Scrump said about a Cyril Tawney song.

Lizzie you promised not to say another word. And here you are again joining in with inane comments. I am delighted that you were led to Cyril Tawney by SOH, and they have been helpful to Seth.

No there is no question for you to respond to in this posting.

Go away.

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: The Sandman
Date: 09 Mar 07 - 08:28 AM

lizzie Cornish,neither you or I know, what will be the folk songs of the future.
Beacause somebody wins folk singer of the year it doesnt necessarily make them a good singer,all it means is that alot of people[if it is done by vote]think so ,popularity does not automatically equate with good,look at Daniel o Donnell,The Pogues,Dave Clark Five,Westlife.

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Scrump
Date: 09 Mar 07 - 08:30 AM

Yes, I think the general consensus here is that (like his music or not) Seth Lakeman is good for folk music, because he brings in young people who then go on to discover other folk artists, just as Lizzie did with Cyril Tawney, by listening to Show of Hands (I'm glad you discovered Cyril through SOH, Lizzie).

As for Aran sweaters, I have one (I think, unless Mrs Scrump gave it to a charity shop years ago without telling me - it's not unknown for her to do that). I can't see myself ever wearing it these days, as I usually get too hot at gigs, even if it isn't that hot in the room.

Oops, before I get criticised for not keeping to the thread, I'd better bring Seth back into the discussion.

In my opinion, Seth should continue to avoid Aran sweaters on stage, and I would advise him strongly against adopting one. As anyone who has seen him perform live will confirm, his furious and frantic fiddling usually causes him to be dripping with sweat by the end of a gig, so wearing such a garment would be foolhardy in the extreme.

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 09 Mar 07 - 09:06 AM

All sweaty and woolly !! Be still my bleating heart.
G ¦¬]

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 09 Mar 07 - 09:09 AM

I think Seth could REVOLUTIONISE Arran Sweaters! :0)

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 09 Mar 07 - 09:57 AM

>>>I think Seth could REVOLUTIONISE Arran Sweaters! :0)<<<



I think Seth already has!

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: catspaw49
Date: 09 Mar 07 - 10:00 AM

Seth could undoubtedly wear a sweater while he molests collies.

Spaw

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 09 Mar 07 - 12:33 PM

"Yes, I think the general consensus here is that (like his music or not) Seth Lakeman is good for folk music, because he brings in young people who then go on to discover other folk artists ..."

This is what I call the 'Trickle-Down Theory of Folk Music'. Anyone remember the 'Trickle-Down Theory of Economics'? That was bollocks as well!

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Scrump
Date: 09 Mar 07 - 12:57 PM

Shimrod, if you think my comment is "bollocks" please do me the courtesy of saying why.

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: McMullen
Date: 09 Mar 07 - 01:33 PM

i spose yes, lakemen is good for folk music in the trickle down sense for young ppl to discover other artists, but hes crap for it in the music sense because ppl might think thats how good folk music sounds,when its how s*** music sounds(escuse my french), the sooner the youngies find some other good contemporay folk music like karine polwart or bodega the better.

im king of the grumps

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Mar 07 - 01:37 PM

99

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Mar 07 - 01:37 PM

Change hands...

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: GUEST,Teacher
Date: 09 Mar 07 - 03:14 PM

McMullen your French is excused, your English is inexcusable.

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 09 Mar 07 - 03:37 PM

We could be thankful for the mercies we receive. I forget where it was, but I recently saw someone refer to KT Tunstall as folk. Excellent she is, but folk she isn't.

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 09 Mar 07 - 05:24 PM

Scrump,

It's 'bollocks' for two reasons:

(i) Because it's just an untested theory that's been bandied about before. In my experience most people who were attracted to Folk Music through the music of 'Steeleye Span', for example, never seemed to get any further than 'Steeleye Span' (in fact I still meet people who still think that SS 'wrote' 'All Around My Hat', 'Cam Ye O'er From France' etc., etc.).

(ii) I'm damned if I'm going to like or praise something, that I don't like, because I hope it will appeal to some other section of the population (in this case 'young people'). If young people let folk music die because it isn't 'cool' enough for them then that's their responsibility and their loss - sod 'em!! Personally, I don't want to see the musical genre that I love bastardised and diluted by a bunch of trendy, five minute wonders and I have absolutely no qualms about saying so.

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Declan
Date: 09 Mar 07 - 08:23 PM

I remember hearing the Lakeman Brothers playing in a session at Edinburgh Folk Festival a good few years back. They were getting quite hyped up in the folk press at that stage. I was quite impressed as to their musical ability at the time.

I saw Equation at Cambridge a year or two later and was impressed. Part of that was down to their virtuoisity given their age, a lot was down to the fact that they were a very good band.

Cambridge 2006 was when I got to hear Seth next. I thought his set was enjoyable enough, I was impressed by the fiddling and singing at the same time proficiency. There was little or nothing in the set list that I found very inspiring. However it is clearly folk inspired music. While describing any of it as traditional is probably stretching a point, Seth is clearly influenced by the tradition.

I didn't buy a copy of Seth's CD, which means I wasn't that impressed with what I heard. But, does Seth's music belong inside the boundaries of Folk Music? .. undoubtedly. Does he have potential to ?bring a newer audience to folk music? Of course.

There is no doubt in my mind that there is a mindset in the folk world that means that anything commercially sucessful is unacceptable. This is particularly true in my experience of the English Folkie, through direct contact and through this and other forums.

My advice to Seth, although he clearly doesn't need it, is to continue along your own musical path, and to paraphrase Brendan Behan, give the begrudgers the weight they diserve in determining your future career direction.

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: melodeonboy
Date: 09 Mar 07 - 09:54 PM

"AND he's just won Folk Singer Of The Year...so that makes him a BLOODY GOOD FOLK SINGER!", says Lady Cornish. Does it indeed??? Mmmm.... refer to point 4 of my first posting on this thread (and note the use of capitals; very reminiscent of "The Sun").

Is it at all possible that those that do not enjoy Mr. Lakeman's music could just be classified (if, indeed, classification be necessary at all) as "people who do not enjoy Mr. Lakeman's music", rather than "wrinklies", "fundamentalists", "begrudgers" or whatever other offensive label certain people choose. I find it difficult to comprehend when people tell me they don't like Shirley Collins, but many people do tell me that. I've never gone into the business of giving them labels. To me they're just "people who don't like Shirley Collins".

It's simple really, ain't it?

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Blowzabella
Date: 10 Mar 07 - 03:46 AM

Actually, I think I might be a trickle down example myself .... cos I first encountered 'folk' in the Steeleye years. But now my tastes are much more 'pared back' shall we say - my collection includes tapes of Sam Larner, Bob Roberts and Copper family, Dolly and Shirley Collins, Peter Bellamy - as well as Tim Laycock (pretty much everything he has ever done), Dave Webber & Anni Fentiman, Cyril Tawney, Stan Hugill - and (as they say when they can't think of anything else to put) much much more.

I think there is ONE Steeleye Span CD in there - but hubby bought that, not me, he said it was for Old Times Sake. I haven't listened to it.

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Blowzabella
Date: 10 Mar 07 - 03:53 AM

Oh - forgot my much much more - Louis Killen, Jim Eldon, Roy Harris, Johnny Collins ... and much much more

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 10 Mar 07 - 04:33 AM

"There is no doubt in my mind that there is a mindset in the folk world that means that anything commercially sucessful is unacceptable."

More bollocks! Relative 'commercial success' is the last thing I'm thinking about when deciding whether I like or don't like a particular piece of music. A complete 'red herring'!

And 'Blowzabella' - good for you! I'm sure that you're 'the exception that proves the rule'.

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: treewind
Date: 10 Mar 07 - 05:34 AM

"There is no doubt in my mind that there is a mindset in the folk world that means that anything commercially sucessful is unacceptable."
I don't know about unacceptable, but the folk world (which surely, more that any other musical world, is about real people making real music) is a bit allergic to commercial hype.
Commercial sucess is such an all or nothing thing these days.
Certainly to win a competition doesn't prove you're a "bloody good singer". What commecrial success does mean is that your singing and playing is good enough (equal to hundreds of others, perhaps) plus you are some or all of:
+ marketable (young, attractive);
+ a good showman;
+ lucky, e.g. in the right place at the right time;
+ a good promoter (or have contacts who are).

Hard working too: I don't think that sort of success comes easily to anyone. But my point is that the talent, though significant, isn't in proportion to the publicity.

Anahata

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: GUEST,Tom Bliss
Date: 10 Mar 07 - 06:39 AM

I've always believed that musicians are really selling emotion. They say that music triggers the same tiny part of the human brain as a baby's cry, and that's why we love to make and hear it. To an extent, the more emotion a musician can trigger, the more successful they are likely to be - whatever syle or genre they work in. I'd happily put Seth in the folk box, while choosing my words carefully when connecting him with the word traditional (which I easily could), but the bottom line is that his music and his performances are deeply emotional, and that's a prime reason for his success - along with all that Anahata says. I know the first time I heard that punk fuddle on Kitty Jay I experienced a rush of adrenaline the likes of which I'd not felt for many years. And the way he's dug one foot into the folk furrow and cocked the other up onto the pop deck is very clever. I like him a lot - but I wouldn't expect people who are mainly turned on by music that's close to the tradition to agree - and I'm sure that's not a problem for Seth either. Tom

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 10 Mar 07 - 07:13 AM

From Shimrod:

>>>And 'Blowzabella' - good for you! I'm sure that you're 'the exception that proves the rule'.<<<<

'Fraid not! ;0)

I 'discovered' folk music purely through Show of Hands. Not only did their own music prove deeply inspirational for me, but so did their versions of traditional songs and covers of other folk songs too. It's opened up a huge amount of music for me...and also for my children too, aged 12 and 20.

Both my kids love Seth's music. They also love who Seth is. That he is NOT 'touched by fame' in any way whatsoever. We've been watching him for years now....and we've seen his audience change from middle-aged and older folkies, to masses of young people.   

He's exciting. He's young. He's inspirational. He's professional and....he's DEEPLY talented. He's a 'natural' musician.

Some people spend years trying to 'learn' to be a musician....and sometimes they get there too, but the best musicians, to me, are like teachers, it's there right from the moment they're born!

THAT'S what I saw in Seth Lakeman the first time I ever saw him. I see it also in Phil Beer, in Steve Knightley, in John Tams and Bob Fox. It's there in Ashley Hutchings and Dave Swarbrick, in Martin Carthy etc. etc...That 'natural' drive that won't let them stop, that brain pattern that will never switch off, always thinking, always playing, always writing, researching etc etc...

Seth is up there with Phil Beer and Dave Swarbrick in the WOW factor of fiddle playing imo.

What REALLY gets up my nose though, is the complete prats who whitter on about his 'looks' and use that against him in the most spiteful way....

Seth Lakeman IS good looking. But so what? That's not his 'fault', it's just the way he is.

However, even if he stood there with a fat suit on and a bag over his head, the second he started playing his fiddle people would be drawn in like a magnet to him, in EXACTLY the same way! He has a unique sound, he plays in a unique way. When he plays Kitty Jay, the girls are as focussed on that fiddle playing as the lads are...It's amazing to watch him play that song and yes, just as Tom said above, the first time I ever saw him play that, I knew it was something special!
I've seen him play that song many times since, and it never fails to take my breath away.

By all means don't like Seth's music, it's a free world and we'd be very boring if we all liked the same things...but for Goodness Sake, don't drag him down. He's opening up YOUR world to those who'll want to come in! Don't slam the door in his face!

There are many 'natural' musicians who struggle all their lives to get anywhere and it must be so frustrating for them...therefore anyone who is bringing people in, enlarging that world, and with it bringing more opportunities for other musicians to finally be 'found' should receive as much support as possible.

Seth is just the beginning of a whole new wave of folk artists. The, imo, snobby, snooty world of English Traditional music should open it's doors wide to him and stop behaving like the kind of weird people who show their dogs at Crufts!

The folk world is NOT The Kennel Club, but there is a small minority who would dock tails of many a folk musician for not having 'the right accent' 'the right look' 'the right stance' etc..etc..

Lighten up guys....Take your arran sweaters and anoraks off now and put your jeans and T shirts on.

Seth Lakeman and Show of Hands have moved you all forward...into The Winner's Arena, but their Arena is filled with happy, talented mongrels, who wag their long tails joyfully, because they do not have rules and regulations to abide by and they do not conform to a certain English Folk Pedigree.


Lizzie :0)

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 Mar 07 - 07:22 AM

Aaaaaaarrrrrrggggghhhhhh!

Please stop stereotyping. I find it very offensive.

Dave.

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 Mar 07 - 07:35 AM

Sorry - that was knee jerk. Calmed down now and analysed the thread. Number of postings = 112. Number of posts saying they don't like Seth = 12, Amongst which half say they do not like him but appreciate what he does. Number of posts slagging other posters off for being 'Aran jumper wearer' - work it out yourself. You only need to follow one poster.

Just who is the predjudiced one here?

Dave.

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Mrs.Duck
Date: 10 Mar 07 - 07:55 AM

Do we think the Aran sweater is yet another casualty of global warming?
Actually I think its the lack of them as if we all wore thick jumpers instead of turning up the thermostat we'd save a lot of wasted power.
My twins both have aran jumpers knitted by me and they're great for folk festivals. They also put their fingers in their ears a lot but that seems to be when I'M singing :0))

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 10 Mar 07 - 07:59 AM

Lizzie.
Losing the will to live now.
R

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 10 Mar 07 - 08:02 AM

Lizzie.
Who are these "Natural Musicians, struggling all their lives?"
Errrm....Please explain?
R

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Rusty Dobro
Date: 10 Mar 07 - 08:16 AM

My cousin from Cornwall knows the family, and says SL is a good sort.

End of (as we young people say.)

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: GUEST,Puck
Date: 10 Mar 07 - 08:30 AM

I'm with you Miskin Man..... stirred things up a bit...good thread Andy

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 10 Mar 07 - 09:40 AM

the best musicians, to me, are like teachers, it's there right from the moment they're born

This isn't knee jerk, it's total, considered anger at such utterly ignorant, dangerous, malicious stupidity. Just when you thought you must have heard the ultimate, this loud-mouthed prat comes out with even more outrageously misinformed bilge.

But what can you expect from someone who doesn't believe in school attendance and glories in gaining no qualifications, with the possible exception of a GCSE is dumbed down, MOR pop?

So Mrs Route thinks musicians are born playing instruments? Yeah, right. Wouldn't occur to her to consider the countless hours of practice, of research, of rehearsal. Because for her everything's got to be instant, manufactured plastic, pink-tinged candy-floss, lacking in substance, throwaway worthlessness. News for her: even the Lakepersons spent their early years learning their craft. And Seth actually can play his violin (as opposed to abusing it) when he wants to, though unfortunately he's not currently doing so.

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Scrump
Date: 10 Mar 07 - 09:50 AM

It's 'bollocks' for two reasons:

(i) Because it's just an untested theory that's been bandied about before. In my experience most people who were attracted to Folk Music through the music of 'Steeleye Span', for example, never seemed to get any further than 'Steeleye Span' (in fact I still meet people who still think that SS 'wrote' 'All Around My Hat', 'Cam Ye O'er From France' etc., etc.).

(ii) I'm damned if I'm going to like or praise something, that I don't like, because I hope it will appeal to some other section of the population (in this case 'young people'). If young people let folk music die because it isn't 'cool' enough for them then that's their responsibility and their loss - sod 'em!! Personally, I don't want to see the musical genre that I love bastardised and diluted by a bunch of trendy, five minute wonders and I have absolutely no qualms about saying so.

With all due respect, Shimrod, if anyone is guilty of spouting "bollocks", it's you, not me, because (taking the two parts of your 'justification' for your gratuitous insult in turn):

(i) Providing a counter-example of a few people who didn't progress any further into folk music after hearing Steeleye Span does not prove that my original comment was "bollocks". Yes, I accept that not everyone who goes to see Steeleye Span or Seth Lakeman will end up delving deeper into traditional folk music, but many will do just that. I gave as an example myself, earlier, having got into folk music via Bob Dylan and other artists that were just as controversial in their time, as far as this issue is concerned. I personally know many people who 'discovered' folk music in similar ways.

(ii) The second part of your 'justification' above is simply your personal opinion and you are entitled to it of course, but it does not justify you calling my earlier comments "bollocks". How you can think it does, I don't know.

The grounds on which you based your insult to me are therefore fallacious and I believe your vilification of my earlier comments are unjustified, and I look forward to receiving your apology.

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: McMullen
Date: 10 Mar 07 - 09:59 AM

i didnt really like steelye neither, it sounded like church music, but i dont nearly dislike them as much as seth lakeman

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Folkiedave
Date: 10 Mar 07 - 10:19 AM

Mrs. Route, you do spout the MOST pretentious cack at times.

You promised earlier this week to give up writing this garbage and here you are back again. And writing pretentious cack again.

I have never met a musician who did not spend hour upon hour practising. And guess what, the more they practise, the better they get.

Why can you not stick to things you know about? Like, errr.....like errr..........well, you suggest something you know something about. Because for certain you know bugger all about folk music.

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: The Sandman
Date: 10 Mar 07 - 10:33 AM

http://www.dickmiles.comand this is dick miles.

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 10 Mar 07 - 10:53 AM

"The grounds on which you based your insult to me are therefore fallacious and I believe your vilification of my earlier comments are unjustified, and I look forward to receiving your apology."

I still think you're talking bollocks, Scrump - sorry!!

PS I love that 'therefore' - it makes you sound so logical and sweetly reasonable. For my part, I'm not at all reasonable - as you may have gathered. I'm pissed off with trendy idiots buggering around with folk music. I'm a 'fundamentalist' - ooherr!!

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: GUEST,Devil's Advocate
Date: 10 Mar 07 - 11:44 AM

Folkiedave said "Why can you not stick to things you know about? Like, errr.....like errr..........well, you suggest something you know something about."
Well, how about building up rather a rather overly ostentatious and overblown Myspace page for a start?

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 10 Mar 07 - 12:29 PM

Sorry guys, this thread's about Seth...start a separate Lizzie Bashing one if you feel the need.

I think it was Sean Lakeman who said that he actually regretted going to music college, as he felt that time was wasted.

Natural musicians, Diane, are the same as 'natural teachers'. They are born knowing how an instrument works. They may never read music or ever understand it, but the music they produce is magical. I've no idea about Seth's musical background, but he's welded to that fiddle...and Sean is the same with his guitar. Seth's fiddle is a part of him, as much as his arms or legs. It's the same as my daughter saying she cannot imagine life without being able to paint, Same for many a musician...or writer, or teacher, or dancer, or sculptor etc...

Creative people often have very similar brain patterns. We've been through it all before elsewhere. YOUR ears Diane, as you've told us before 'dissect' music note for note, and you assume that everyone does this when they listen to music...they don't. Some do though.

The way that Seth moves, his body language, facial expressions, speed of movement etc..are all, imo, linked in to his natural musical talent. In the same way, a natural teacher understands children and adults from the inside out. They know how to make learning easy and a joy. The present Government has broken the skill for many teachers, forcing them to teach in a particular way, which many know is wrong. The good and 'natural' teachers are leaving en masse.

As I've suggested to you before, read Ronald D. Davis's 'Gift Of Dyslexia' book and in there you'll find out how he was treated as an imbecile at school, because he could not read and write. He was a genius at maths though, although he could not explain why...he just knew the answers...but this wasn't enough, he HAD to be able to explain, to those who know better..He was labelled a Savant and treated appallingly. He later, became an engineer, before giving in to the real love of his life, which as sculpting. He discovered that he saw things 'differently' only because a friend of his watched him sculpting a head one day and asked him how he managed to bring the clay to life life that. He looked at him in amazement and said "But the head is already in there! I simply am removing the clay from around it. Can't you see it?" His friend didn't understand.

Ronald then went on his 'dyslexic' journey of discovery and now runs schools throughout the USA and UK for dyslexic children and he also found that a high proportion of dyslexic people are also highly talented musicians, dancers, artists, scupltors, athletes etc...They have the ability to 'see inside' without even realising they're doing it. The dancer is able to view themselves 'from above', the artist will strip back the paint to the canvas (my daughter does this) the musician will pick up an instrument and 'feel it' from the inside out....whilst never knowing what order the notes may be supposed to played in...etc..etc..

Seth's just 'got it' that's all...I'm sure all three of the Lakeman's have 'it' That special natural magic.

Impossible to understand for those with closed minds....but exceptionally easy to see for those who understand.

Oh...and a 'natural' teacher Diane, would never ridicule a child or an adult for their spelling, grammar or indeed anything else, because the 'natural' teacher can spot the gift that is within every single human being...

Seth has that gift.

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 10 Mar 07 - 12:34 PM

John the Baptist after torturing a thief
Looked up at his hero the Commander in Chief
And said "Tell me great hero, but please make it brief.
Is there a hole I can be sick in?"

Bob Dylan wrote that!

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 10 Mar 07 - 01:01 PM

Dyslexia a gift?
That's fucking preposterous.
It's nothing more than a learning difficulty, of which everyone has one or several.
That's what school is for, to learn how to overcome them asap, not under the auspices of airy-fairy, drippy-hippy so-called 'natural' teachers but properly trained ones.
Does anybody know why I'm bothering to point this out to Mrs Route anyway?
This is someone who knows sod all about teaching of any sort, let alone music teaching.
Get thee to MySpace and try and cure your floating greengrocer's apostrophe on the way.

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: The Sandman
Date: 10 Mar 07 - 01:14 PM

Lizzie, you say that he has got it,well that is your opinion and you are entitled to it,other people are entitled to disagree.
But if ERIC THE RED can,t understand his diction[I too thought his diction was poor]then that is an important thing that he should work on.
personally, I would rate Damien Barber more highly as a singer,each to their own.

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 10 Mar 07 - 02:09 PM

Oh Damien's great too! I'm fuming that he and the Demon Barbers aren't at Sidmouth this year...


From Diane: (countess)>>>Dyslexia a gift?
That's fucking preposterous.
It's nothing more than a learning difficulty, of which everyone has one or several.
That's what school is for, to learn how to overcome them asap, not under the auspices of airy-fairy, drippy-hippy so-called 'natural' teachers but properly trained ones.<<<


Don't be a twit Diane. You can't 'overcome' Dyslexia. You're born with it, pure and simple. However, what dyslexic people do have to learn how to overcome is the ignorant, unpleasant and disturbingly stupid opinions of people such as yourself.

Most people with dyslexia are able to do this of course, because with dyslexia also comes a deep intelligence. And school is not, as you would have it be, some sort of SS Academy run by Miss Trunchbull's...although sadly we have a Trunchbull Government in charge at present, who are determined to put half the population in The Chokey...

Below is what school should be for:



"Whatever an education is, it should make you a unique individual, not a conformist; it should furnish you with an original spirit with which to tackle the big challenges; it should allow you to find values which will be your road map through life; it should make you spiritually rich, a person who loves whatever you are doing, wherever you are, whomever you are with; it should teach you what is important, how to live and how to die." John Taylor Gatto


The Wisdom of John Taylor Gatto

And this Diane, is especially for you:

"The illiterate of the 21st century will not be those who cannot read and write, but those who cannot learn, unlearn, and relearn." - Alvin Toffler


And now....back to Seth Lakeman

Seth Lakeman's Wikipedia page

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 Mar 07 - 02:31 PM

Sorry guys, this thread's about Seth...start a separate Lizzie Bashing one if you feel the need.

So, who tried to make it about Show of Hands? Who was it who started lashing out indiscriminately at everyone on the thread for decrying Seth when, as I pointed out, no such thing happened. Who was it who started calling everyone who does not like what you like such things as 'fundementalists' and likening those who enjoy traditional music to the sadists who torture puppies?

Nice try Lizzie but no prizes. Bad at trying to twist what happened. Bad at reading what has gone on before and now even worse at trying to derail an argument by blaming other people!

Lizzie, I really did try to defend you in the past. Your enthusiasm is a beauty to behold. Your possitive attitude does you credit but I am afraid I have now given up. I would not dream of 'bashing' you but when anyone so blatantly causes so much mayhem and confusion I feel I no longer want anything to do with them.

I shall not address or comment on your posts any longer.

Goodby and good luck.

Dave

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: GUEST,Blowzabella who has somehow lost her cookie
Date: 10 Mar 07 - 02:41 PM

oooh Dave - I don't think Lizzie likened Traditional music fans to puppy torturers - I had to read right through the thread to see what on earth you were referring to for that! Naughty - she likened us / them to people who show dogs at Crufts. Not the same thing at all. Breed purists was the point she was making (albeit emotionally and not using a very good analogy, I'll grant you) - but saying she likened folkies to puppy torturers is naughty - cos she didn't say that - or mean that - and you know that - and people who show dogs at crufts aren't puppy torturers anyway.

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 10 Mar 07 - 02:53 PM

I think Dave was playing Lizzie at her own game, exaggerating for effect, it's a ploy she uses a lot. Seems only fair that it's used against her occasionally!
G

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Folkiedave
Date: 10 Mar 07 - 03:51 PM

You can't 'overcome' Dyslexia

Mrs. Route, once again you seem to be talking about something of which you know little.

First of all - why not do as you yourself said you would do earlier this week and stop posting on here. You will not be missed.

Secondly whilst dyslexia cannot be "cured" a person can be taught a whole range of strategies which can render it virtually invisible. I have had students with severe dyslexia go to University and with one memorable student the university would not even acknowledge that the student was dyslexic until they separated her from her computer.

However there are indications that things can be massively improved.

Let me quote you a source:

Dyslexia-specific brain activation profile becomes normal following successful remedial training.

It's a peer-reviewed academic paper given in 2002 easily found on the internet and concludes:

.....that the deficit in functional brain organization underlying dyslexia can be reversed after sufficiently intense intervention lasting as little as 2 months, and are consistent with current proposals that reading difficulties in many children represent a variation of normal development that can be altered by intensive intervention.

It is why trained teachers like my wife spend two years doing courses part time and often in their own time and with their own money to help them learn a range of ways of dealing with the range of dyslexia that is found nowadays in an FE college.

I am sure there are a huge number of educational researchers who will be interested in your statement that "with dyslexia also comes a deep intelligence".

I and the hundreds of other people who spend their whole lives working with students with dyslexia have never noticed this and I will be delighted to read the results of your peer-reviewed and published research that leads you to say this. For there seems to be no-one else in the world of educational research publications that agrees with you.

Of course I suppose they could all be dyslexic fundamentalists all frightened to acknowledge your superior knowledge.

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 10 Mar 07 - 04:22 PM

A well-known musician of my acquaintance is severely dyslexic but, following a brief spell of remedial teaching as described by Dave, passed a Cambridge entrance exam, was awarded an Exhibition and went on to acquire a good degree. He still has difficulty reading music but learned abc instead. Mrs Route counted him among her 'boysies' (to his intense irritation) at one point but has now, thankfully, as a result of her extremely limited attention span, desisted. For this reason I won't disclose his name as he is revelling in getting back his life and reputation.

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Peace
Date: 10 Mar 07 - 05:06 PM

A thing I don't understand is remarks like, "It's not folk" and therefore it's not good. The guy ain't bad. Who cares if it's 'folk' or not. When I want Celtic, I'll listen to Celtic. When I want Jimmy Rofers I'll listen to Jimmy Rogers. When I want the Stones I'll listen to the Stones. I have real difficulty understanding narrow mindedness that would exclude good music from anyone just because it doesn't fall in a certain category.

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 10 Mar 07 - 05:21 PM

The guy ain't bad

Well, he's fairly bad (compared to how 'quite good' he used to be in the Lakeperson boy band a decade ago.

Not only that but he's boring (all his songs sound more or less the same) and he abuses violins.

Is he 'f*lk'?
Dunno, I never really bother to go into that and rarely use the word anyway.
As English Jon said many posts ago, don't ask me to listen to it (or in the case of Mrs Route, bloody well stop TELLING me to listen to it).
NO!

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Peace
Date: 10 Mar 07 - 05:27 PM

LOL

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Scrump
Date: 10 Mar 07 - 05:50 PM

I still think you're talking bollocks, Scrump - sorry!!

PS I love that 'therefore' - it makes you sound so logical and sweetly reasonable. For my part, I'm not at all reasonable - as you may have gathered. I'm pissed off with trendy idiots buggering around with folk music. I'm a 'fundamentalist' - ooherr!!

Then I shan't attempt to justify this remark: you are an obnoxious, bigoted, blinkered, opinionated, supercilious tosser, Shimrod.

If you're so 'pissed off' then why don't you just piss off yourself, and do the rest of us a favour?

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 10 Mar 07 - 06:31 PM

Apologies for thread drift folks...normal Seth Service will be resumed as soon as possible :0)

>>>Mrs. Route, once again you seem to be talking about something of which you know little.<<<

OK...SHORT ANSWER: ;0)

Father, brother, son, daughter...and me to a lesser degree, but on the same circle....

Sorry about that Dave...but I know first hand, second hand, third hand and fourth hand about dyslexia.


LONG ANSWER...DON'T READ IF IT'S GOING TO DRIVE YOU BATS! ;0)


I know how it feels, I know how the brain works, I know how people are belittled and the terrible anger and hurt that it causes too. I can tell you so many signs of the dyslexic child...I can spot them these days...The wriggling, the lack of attention, the chattering, the often excited, sunny nature (although this gets lost along the way if no-one understands them) the inquisitive mind, the quick wit and intellect...the way they watch with their eyes, learning through their vision, their ears, their hands...touching, absorbing everything so very much in that respect.

My son was already being belittled by his teacher at age 7. He went to a 'dyslexic' class where he was sat in front of a computer and typed out the same words over and over and over. The theory being that evenutally it would er..'sink in'...it doesn't. My brother has to this day, never lost his anger at being called stupid by teachers who were convinced he was lazy...but in fairness to those teachers, they weren't aware so much of dyslexia in those days. But they could have been understanding and more sympathetic. He has his own business now, but every school report he ever had, said how lazy he was. Nope...he wasn't.

He can tell you what any piece of furniture is made of at a glance, he can restore anything you give him, he can build his own house, but purely because he cannot write or read, society forced him out...as they did for many of his friends too. His good friend who ran the rubbish dump in Somerset, Ted, signed everything with an X...Ted had grotty jobs all his life, yet he designed and built his own house, on the Somerset Levels too...No mean feat I can assure you.

Diane, if you truly have a friend who is severely dyslexic then I am staggered at the way you belittled and verbally abused so very many people on the BBC, calling them ignorant and stupid for their grammatical errors or spelling mistakes for so very long. You should have known better and been far more sensitive. Surely?

Dyslexia cannot be cured by science. Or papers...or theories. Ronald Davis HAS designed a way to re-train certain parts of the brain..but this takes a lot of practice and committment, eventually however, some students are able to make letters stay on the page. But not all people suffer from 'moving letters'...Some simply miss whole words or read them round the wrong way, or get physically immensely tired by reading. They also cannot read masses of words without short paragraphs being there...Masses of words are confusing and overwhelming.

It can also be helped by being deeply understood by others, being recognised and being seen merely as another way of learning, which is all it is. We ALL learn differently, our brains work differently. Nature makes us all different for a purpose, that purpose being for the continuation of the species....Hence there is the doctor, the nurse, the undertaker, the chef, the musician, the teacher, the scientist, the explorer..etc...etc..etc....We all have different paths to go down in our lives, different roles to fill, for a reason. What is happening now, with the National Curriculum is that so many different brain patterns are being forced to conform to The Pattern Of One..and that is driving many children out of their minds.   

As a child I never sat still, I had to touch everything, because that's how I learnt, looking wasn't enough. Writing was so hard, holding the pen and then having to make those movements, especially being left-handed so therefore they were all back to front..I couldn't concentrate, my mind would flit everywhere, it still does, even when I talk, I'm off down different paths at the drop of a hat.

I used to talk with my hands, but this annoyed some folk, and at school they tried to stop me. I then developed a stutter, because my hands were part of my speech and with not being able to use them freely I had trouble making my words come out. (Yes..I can hear the jokes..."Quick tie her hands behind her back! ;0) ) I stopped doing that and used my hands again, because I HAD to and was thus able to talk normally once more......I have pictures for words...my vocabulary is limited and I use the same words over and over..It goes with the brain pattern..I can't remember things or put them in the right chronological order...History is a Mystery in that I have no Timeline, unless it is in front of me...I forget words when I speak....I do find them eventually if the person opposite has the patience to wait, so often they don't though.

So Dave...I DO know about dyslexia because I am right inside it. That is why I fought Diane so hard on the BBC board about it. Many creative people just have brains like that, that's all...it's no big deal to be honest, until you get surrounded by folk who tell you that there is only one way to spell a word, only one way to learn, only one way to write, and that...is...THEIR way. THAT'S when the trouble starts...and it's all around us in our education system today.

Dyslexia IS a gift. But for so many, the gift is torn apart and trodden on. It is thrown in their face and they learn to despise it and to despise those around them. They become confused, angry and withdrawn..their self-esteem plummets and they really start to believe that they are stupid...they are NOT!

That shouldn't happen to ANY child, but sadly it still does. Often the dyslexic person does not get the help they should ALWAYS have had, until they are grown up. Then...they are treated with kindess, understanding and respect. But that is the way they should ALWAYS have been treated, right from the start! It is far more common than many think. It is a huge problem and it needs to be recognised and not brushed under the carpet as 'not existing'

Folk music, particularly English Folk Music, seems to draw people in who are fastidious about facts, words, dates, notes, memories etc..etc..almost to the point of obsession....and there's nowt wrong with that...for without those brain patterns, things would not be researched in detail and written down for all. But some of those people just need to remember that not all brains are like theirs. I can type out 3,000 words in minutes...but I couldn't tell you, even to this day, which tracks are on which Show of Hands CDs or even Seth's...who has far fewer....my brain just won't do it.


Of course, ALL of the above could merely be my usual complete twaddle...I could just be related to a goldfish.... ;0)



And now..back to that Sizzling, Fizzling, Fire-Work Of A Folkie...

Seth Lakeman!


:0)

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 10 Mar 07 - 06:32 PM

Ooh..Nice one Scrump! ;0)

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 10 Mar 07 - 08:18 PM

Lizzie

You arent dyslexic, what you are is bad mannered, rude, obnoxious, pig ignorant, arrogant and severely lacking in taste, the ability to consider anyone elses opinion or taste as equal in value to your own.

Why exactly you spend your entire miserable existance floating from one forum to another when you clearly arent welcome spamming nonsense about subjects you know nothing about and causing numerous problems for artists whose reputations you harm escapes me, was one of the teachers who allegedly caused problems for your brother an accordion player or something?

Oh and back on topic, Seth Lakemans music is shite, terribly sorry but its MOR, lacking in substance and he could do better, far far better and the fact that you repeatedly try to force it on people is little more than an indication of your lack of taste and knowledge of folk (or any other) music.

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Declan
Date: 10 Mar 07 - 09:13 PM

Nobody here is asking anybody to like anything. That's your choice.

I dislike lots of things. That's my right.

But why does anyone feel the need to actively start a thread slagging something off on the basis of two minutes listening?

I understand that Seth has two big things going against him.

(1) is Lizzie's constant gushing about him. This does nobody any favours. Lizzie if you don't understand that you're damaging all the acts you keep on about, then this may not persuade you. But you are. So if you care please stop.

(2) is the whole folk awards contoversy. This has not helped Seth. Lots of people say it has nothing to do with him personally, but I think this is very naive. Even if one accepts that the error has nothing to do with Seth, as some people claim, the controversy has been damaging. And there's been a huge amount of innuendo that Seth gave a trad attribution in order to win the award, which to me makes no sense, but the charge is out there.

Countess (Diane), you asked why you spend so much time refuting Lizzie. Great Question, you should work out the answer and then stop doing it.

As has been pointed out a lot of the replies (including my own) have been vaguely positive, but the basic premise of the thread has been negative. So what was the point of setting it up in the first place. Andy is congratulated for setting it up to "stir things up", so what does that achieve?

Scrump, Shimrod's definition of "bollocks" appears to be anything he disagrees with. If s/he is going to use the word with such monotonous regularity, it would be worth while learning how to spell it.

As for Aran jumpers, it seems that Seth wears jeans and a tee-shirt. How does this differentiate him from most of the folkies I've ever met?

And all the dyslexia and class stuff is a total red herring.

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: GUEST,CN
Date: 10 Mar 07 - 09:47 PM

For heaven's sake all you people...Seth's a very nice kid who's having some good fortune right now. He's a good fiddle player & singer, and has been been brought up surrounded by folkies. Whether you like his recordings or not is really neither here nor there...the fact is that lots of people are listening to his stuff that would never in a million years get involved in any kind of local folk club. There's a reasonable chance that some of these folks might go on to listen to other stuff from the same genre. For that we owe him a pint. Anything that attracts new listeners can't be a bad thing. Just my 02p.

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 11 Mar 07 - 01:23 AM

Mrs Route's up to her Chubby Checker activities again.
So Boring.
I've certainly castigated people for carelessness and laziness and not bothering to check spelling and facts before applying fingers to keyboard.
It's not only me that has had so much time wasted chasing wrongly spelled tune titles or artists' names.
Yet Mrs Route continues to assert it's wrong to say there's only one way to spell a word (or indeed that there is but one way to define traditional material).
Complete bollocks.
Though she's got just one thing right, that her vocabulary is limited and she uses the same words over and over again.
Doesn't she just. This is what is 'ignorant and stupid'.

But no. She's got her teeth into yet another tinpot theory and continues to spout it in the face of documented research.
Not exactly academic.
SO JUST STOP IT.
It's tedious and wrong and makes you look even more of a complete arse.

Oh and as for the dyslexic musician I mentioned earlier, not a friend exactly, just someone I know as most people do (or, in the case of Mrs Route, used to fawn over in a particularly nauseating way). He has no interest in her 'sympathy', only in the remedial teaching from experts that has enabled him to function in a literate world.

He plays his tunes and has no difficulty whatsoever in distinguishing white from black hares.

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: catspaw49
Date: 11 Mar 07 - 03:43 AM

Dyslexia is a gift............uh-huh..............Severe mental retardation must be the combination of 20 great Christmas mornings and 30 of the happiest birthdays!

Is this simpleass twit for real? What a total mook.........And all of you have been putting up with her dumbshit opinions for a long time huh?

Here Lizdick Cornpone....Can you spell IGNOFUCKINGRAMUS?

........................geeziz.................

Spaw

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 11 Mar 07 - 03:53 AM

Lissie may be very annoying, but that, spaw, was unnecessary as well as ill-informed.

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 11 Mar 07 - 04:25 AM

"Then I shan't attempt to justify this remark: you are an obnoxious, bigoted, blinkered, opinionated, supercilious tosser, Shimrod."

Yep! That just about sums it up, and, do you know, I'm quite proud of it! At least I'm not a miserable 'fashion victim' distracted by every passing whim and eager to ingratiate myself with 'young people' in the pathetic hope that they might like the same sort of music that I like. Just remember that you might end up dumbing down and diluting our favourite musical form only to find that the little tossers have jumped ship in order to pursue some other superficial fad.

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Folkiedave
Date: 11 Mar 07 - 04:25 AM

First of all I agree with Richard, spaw, that post was uncalled for.

Secondly Mrs. Route, I am delighted that you know how the brain works. I drive a car - I have no more idea of how it works than flying to the moon. But I have daily first hand experience of it. First, second, third, fourth and fifth hand. But I am happy for you to know how the brain works.

but I couldn't tell you, even to this day, which tracks are on which Show of Hands CDs or even Seth's...who has far fewer....my brain just won't do it.

We all realised that Mrs. Route. We all realised it for instance because you wrote last week that you had stopped posting to this board that your short term memory is poor.

Here is what the Birmingham Adult Dyslexia Group says about that.

When a dyslexic person is under pressure or stressed the effects of short-term memory loss are intensified even more

Mrs Route, you don't have to take my advice but here are two helpful ideas.

First of all try and relieve your stress, all the evidence shows it will help your short-term memory, so you will remember when you have written that you will not post to this board and threads any more. I think posting to these boards increases the intensity of your stress.

Secondly, and this is a very serious point and I want you to think about it carefully.

The UK is desperate for trained dyslexia teachers. Really really desperate. So why not go and get qualified so instead of talking about how much you know on this board, and then you will be able to do something concrete and useful and help the people who have this problem.

It will have the added advantage of keeping you busy.

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Tootler
Date: 11 Mar 07 - 06:05 AM

I suggest the main protagonists in this so-called discussion go back and reread the thread asking yourselves the question "How do I come over in this".

If you are honest to yourselves, you will not like the answer you get.

None of you.

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 11 Mar 07 - 07:16 AM

In this thread I have spoken about the music of Seth Lakeman as it is being presented today in the current musical climate because I can, though I don't have a vast amount of interest in doing so as I consider his contribution to be minimal.

Additionally I have spoken against Mrs Route's mindless, meandering, incessant swirl of bilge because it is so dangerously polluting, does so much harm to the music and people I love and needs to be stopped.

What I regret is the necessity of still having to do either.

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: The Sandman
Date: 11 Mar 07 - 08:03 AM

Tootler,your right.
Debate should always be conducted according to the Queensbury rules,.its best to try and avoid personal abuse,yours sanctimoniously.

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 11 Mar 07 - 09:21 AM

>>The UK is desperate for trained dyslexia teachers. Really really desperate. So why not go and get qualified so instead of talking about how much you know on this board, and then you will be able to do something concrete and useful and help the people who have this problem. <<

I know Dave. However, at present and for the next 4 years, I have my own dyslexic child to educate. He was home-educated after his teacher started belittling him and he was severely bullied. This was never dealt with by the school. It rarely is. When my son is beyond the 'clutches' of this now Corporate Education System, at the age of 16, then I'll be free to do other things. Rest assured though that he is in very good hands..and very happy.

>>>does so much harm to the music and people I love and needs to be stopped.<<<

You Diane, I'm afraid, are the one person who has tried to 'damage' Seth's career, and Show of Hands too, above all others. The evidence is all over the BBC boards, in many threads. If you take a dislike to an artist, for whatever reason, you'll stop at nothing in your belittling and criticism of them.

I started off respecting your obvious knowledge of folk music, however, over the years, I have watched you use your knowledge over and over, purely as a weapon to point at others. Teach by all means, but verbal abuse is quite another thing. If you have been given a gift, as you have, for memory, interest and intellect, then you abuse that 'gift' by trying incessantly to silence and humiliate others.

It is one thing for anyone to dislike an artist's music. We're back to brain patterns again with the reasons for that....It is however, quite another to say deeply unpleasant things about artists, as you have done in the past with Seth.

Thankfully, now that you realise there is nothing that will stop Seth and to keep hounding him, as you once did, only makes you look ridiculous, you have quietened down a bit..and it's great to see much support for Seth on this thread.

He deserves nothing less.

Lizzie :0)


PS..Oh..and I don't go with 'research' I go with 'life' :0)

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 11 Mar 07 - 09:40 AM

"PS..Oh..and I don't go with 'research' I go with 'life' :0)"

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 11 Mar 07 - 11:14 AM

Mrs Route doesn't know me, has never met me and has never (to my knowledge) ever assimilated one word of the knowledge (not a gift) nor information (also not a gift) I have ever written about. She is far too self-obsessed ever to have listened. This is the sole form of 'contact' I have ever had with her over the past year or so: mere attempts to counter the bollocks she spouts. What I know was acquired (not given) from clogging lessons with the Ellwoods, violin lessons from the church organist and at school, working at C# then as a journalist.

I've known the work of the Lakepersons (their children, not Joy and Geoff) for the past decade. Even that is approximately 10 years longer than Mrs Route who caught sight of the folk hobbit on YouTube last week. Once they were OK, now they are definitely not though may be making some money. If that's your criteria, they are successful. I'm not actually at all interested in what they do and, other than to point this out once or twice, have scarcely ever passed comment until the albino bunny rabbit hopped along.

Doesn't mean I haven't felt like throwing up at her idiotic, sycophantic fawning over them and those other South-Western crooners. But far more importantly, it's when she threatens the careers and livelihoods of genuine working musicians that her dangerous behaviour has to be curbed. It's malicious. It harms people and genuine music. It cannot continue.

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 11 Mar 07 - 12:01 PM

>>>>and has never (to my knowledge) ever assimilated one word of the knowledge (not a gift) nor information (also not a gift) I have ever written about. <<<<<


Well..you is AWFFFFFULLLL borin' at times Sweetums! ;0)

And er...I saw the Lakeman's about 17 years ago now...Seems you is not readin' what I is sayin'... ;0)

AND...I've never fawned over Seth, Sean OR Sam, for I is old enough to be their Mummy..AND..I don't fawn over Show of Hands either, just rave about their brilliant musicianship and songs, and their professionalism too... :0) :0) :0)

Nearly Royal Albert Hall Time...WHOPPPEEE!!!   Wish Seth could be there as well...that would be sensational!

Now, now MacKenzie...You know you love me really...stop throwing wobblies all over the place...else you'll get your kilt in a terrible state. ;0)

Hey! I'm feeling great, 'cos I've just got back from the gym and I was listening to Freedom Fields again...Wow! That CD takes years off you, you know..

I'd recommend that you Moaning Minnies listen to it around the clock...

You could all wake up feeling 17 again tomorrow...AND....HAPPY!!!!

YIPPEEEEE!!!

AND I've been playing basketball too, with my young lad and his pal...When did 12 year olds get to run so fast??? ;0)

Right..I'm away to join the mermaids and take the souls of the sailors, from the Lady Of The Sea, to a very happy place....

Enjoy yourselves guys! xxx


Lizzie :0)

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 11 Mar 07 - 12:10 PM

>>>>We all realised that Mrs. Route. We all realised it for instance because you wrote last week that you had stopped posting to this board that your short term memory is poor.

Here is what the Birmingham Adult Dyslexia Group says about that.

"When a dyslexic person is under pressure or stressed the effects of short-term memory loss are intensified even more" <<<


Ah..well...I sat down and thought about it...and I decided that really you all quite like me..so...I decided to stay.. ;0)

Besides, as you've driven me off the BBC board now..well..I had to come somewhere didn't I? Chuckle.

Not stressed though....Cross Eyed, Standing On My Head Smiley!

Max! This board SOOOOOOO needs Smilies! These people need cheering up tremendously!

Are Canadian Folkies as GRUMPY as English ones I wonder? I don't think so..I think it's something peculiar to England...

I blame Ewan MacColl myself...

Right...gotta dash....Seth's singing 'The Colliers' now...and I jsut HAVE to dance this one. :0)

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: GUEST,Chris Murray
Date: 11 Mar 07 - 12:15 PM

Lizzie, I don't think you can say that Diane has tried to damage Seth's career, or that of Show of Hands. I don't really think she's bothered enough to do that, even if she had the power.

It's funny you two didn't bump into each other all those years ago when you were both watching the Lakeman brothers, before the rest of us had heard of them.

For the record, Lizzie, I've liked Seth Lakeman ever since you recommended 'Kitty Jay' to me all those years ago when I was a nice person.

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: GUEST,Bystander
Date: 11 Mar 07 - 12:21 PM

"Ah..well...I sat down and thought about it...and I decided that really you all quite like me..so...I decided to stay.. ;0)"

Lizzie, your powers of self-delusion are quite astonishing and astounding... yet again you have managed to subvert a thread and make it revolve around yourself. You seem to have no concept of relating to other people or other people's feelings... do you suffer from Aspberger's Syndrome as well??

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Peace
Date: 11 Mar 07 - 12:37 PM

"Are Canadian Folkies as GRUMPY as English ones I wonder? I don't think so..I think it's something peculiar to England..."

YOU have GOT to be shittin' me.

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 11 Mar 07 - 12:59 PM

"And er...I saw the Lakeman's about 17 years ago now...Seems you is not readin' what I is sayin'... ;0)"

Firstly I don't think for one second you can criticise anyone else for not reading what someone says, secondly time and time and time and time again you have said that you only discovered folk music a few short years ago so mayhaps you are telling porkies above???
If not Im sure you will be able to state when and where you saw the Lakeman family play and recollect some of the material they played eh Lizzie or perhaps contrast their set with the material Seth is playing now????
I won't hold my breath.
Oh and finally Im actually glad Lizzie Cornish/Albion Lizzie/Elizabeth Cornwallish/Sethettie etc etc is on Mudcat rather than anywhere else, she can do less damage here than on a more public forum such as the BBC's though why she hasnt been banned here as well I dont know.

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: The Sandman
Date: 11 Mar 07 - 01:01 PM

listen please,while you are arguing among yourselves, the British National party are increasing their votes,scaring people about immigration ,for god sake, all of you get a grip.
Next week its Cheltenham horse race meeting heres a tip.Spot The difference,in the 4 40 on tuesday.

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 11 Mar 07 - 01:45 PM

Yep, one of the things I like about the world of folk music is the above average levels of tolerance, live-and-let-live, the acceptance of alternative lifestyles and viewpoints.

Flower power generation? A handful of thorns more like, intent on spiking each other while the world around them is going to pot. Personal insults, taunts and verbal bullying vie each other for supremacy. Brilliant. Well done, everybody, you have given the best possible impression.

Seriously Disappointed of Chesham.

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 11 Mar 07 - 01:51 PM

I saw Seth and his brothers at Buckland Monachorum Summer Fair...well actually I didn't strictly 'see' them, because the crowd was so large around them that I couldn't see who it was....and I had my daughter in a pushchair, so it was hard to get near the front...However, someone told me who they were and I was very impressed...But I left it at that...until that day in Sidmouth, when Show of Hands came on stage in The Arena and well...POW!!!!

Oh heck! Don't tell me the Folk Police are in Canada too? How depressing is that then? Or is that more about that Canada would never let this sort of thing happen? The Canadians are such lovely people..We love Canada! :0) :0)

>>>Lizzie, your powers of self-delusion are quite astonishing and astounding<<<<<

Er...'twas a joke m'dear! ;0)


And it's no good you lot throwing things at me..and frothing at the mouth because.....not only have I just put Seth's 'Kitty Jay' Youtube video on my Myspace page...

SETH'S 'KITTY JAY' VIDEO


...BUT....I've also just discovered that ARTISAN have a Myspace page TOO!

How COOL is that then! Oh...wonderful voices...Take a listen!

The Magical A cappella Voices of ARTISAN

And Chris, yes...I remember you saying how much you liked Seth on the BBC board. Shame I'll never get to enthuse anyone ever again though, but then..that's what the Moaning Minnies wanted...Totally beyond me, but such is their outlook I'm afraid.

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 11 Mar 07 - 01:54 PM

One...two...

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 11 Mar 07 - 01:54 PM

Hey George...have you got Cloudstreet yet?

CLOUDSTREET

They are lovely...you were right!

AND...I can see why they moved to Australia! ;0) Chuckle.. :0)

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 11 Mar 07 - 01:55 PM

Three...Four....

:0) x

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Blowzabella
Date: 11 Mar 07 - 02:02 PM

Hi Lizzie - well - I went and listened to Kittie jay - my first experience of Seth ... have to say - diction very poor, video ... as expected .... story probably more interesting than i was able to gather cos i couldn't understand much other than 'Poor Kitty Jay / Beauty tossed away' - and as far as that goes, i've suffered that myself - which girl hasn't - couldn't understand what made her so tragic cos the words were unintelligible.

Sorry - I tried .... (and he's not very good looking either)

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 11 Mar 07 - 02:27 PM

Each to their own Blowz...each to their own...

Here's her story:


KITTY JAY

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Blowzabella
Date: 11 Mar 07 - 02:44 PM

No - thanks, that is interesting - however, as ever, nothing is as simple as it seems and I think you will find, if you do some research, that in the Georgian period, (late 18th / early C19th comes into this) that they fully accepted that these things would happen. Illegitimate children were commonplace - I've done a lot of family history research and not just me but every single one of the people I have corresponded with have illegitimate children in their tree. It gets to be a stigma in the Victorian period but for Georgians - they understood how things worked.

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Andy Jackson
Date: 11 Mar 07 - 03:10 PM

"But why does anyone feel the need to actively start a thread slagging something off on the basis of two minutes listening?"

Good thread though innit? Shows a lot of people what complete wazzocks they are - no names, no cornish pack drills!

Actually it really was the first time I'd heard him and after all the patronising B*****s talked by cornish persons unamed I thought I'd have a quiet stir... Tee Hee.

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Tootler
Date: 11 Mar 07 - 04:45 PM

"...What I regret is the necessity of still having to do either."

CR, Ask yourself in all honesty, was it really necessary to do either?

Far more effective is just to ignore such posts. By responding in the way you do you are feeding the troll.

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Folkiedave
Date: 11 Mar 07 - 04:59 PM

I know Dave. However, at present and for the next 4 years, I have my own dyslexic child to educate.

Well Mrs Route you will find the qualifications to teach people with dyslexia can be done on a part-time basis and indeed most people who are certificated do it in precisely that way.

So having a full-time job teaching your son is not really an excuse. My wife had a full time job teaching about 25 sons and daughters of other people and still managed it.

In fact you have an advantage because to gain a qualification like the one my wife has you need to be in a position to be able to demonstrate your skills and this usually involves seeking out a pupil to work with. You will not have that difficulty.

Apart from seeing them on YouTube have you ever seen Artisan? I don't remembering them visiting the West Country recently...

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 11 Mar 07 - 05:38 PM

>>>Apart from seeing them on YouTube have you ever seen Artisan? I don't remembering them visiting the West Country recently...<<<<



Oh here go again...First of all...it was Myspace...

Nope...I've never seen Artisan. You're dead right there. I discovered them (as in 'heard') though, through Radio Britfolk Dave. Gosh...I wrote REAMS about Britfolk on the BBC board Dave..but where were you????? And all the others, who whinge that no-one takes folk music seriously? Britfolk is a wonderful idea..but oh no...all the Moaning Minnies did was try and get the Britfolk thread closed by whining on about all the 'Radio Threads' I'd started! ????????????

Not ONE person gave them any support....pretty much the same over here too, from what I can see. Jaycee's done many programmes on Britfolk and featured Artisan too...I fell in love with their voices...Sorry if that's a crime in your book. I also love the voices of Coope Boyes & Simpson as well....So hang me now! :0)

>>So having a full-time job teaching your son is not really an excuse.<<

Actually it is. My job for the next four years is ALL about him. Each year I have to prove to those 'who must be obeyed' that I am doing 'my job' satisfactorily..That's the highest accolade any Home Educator is ever given...'satisfactory'....because of course, no way could we ever be given an 'excellent'...Oh dearie me no!...So far, each year, my son and I, together, reach 'satisfactory'...I also have a family to bring up, outside of my 'job'....and that, for the time being is more than enough thank you.

>>In fact you have an advantage because to gain a qualification like the one my wife has you need to be in a position to be able to demonstrate your skills and this usually involves seeking out a pupil to work with. You will not have that difficulty.<<

I certainly won't. My son is not 'a pupil' about whom I will write reams, study, and discuss. He's a young person making his way in life, in his own way. Discovering what he's interested in, freely and with any support I can offer. He's not watched, nor bound by tests or forms or anything else. He is free to learn what he wants, when he wants, how he wants...and learn he does. When children are free, they WANT to learn...because they can then follow their hearts and minds..It is such a simple thing to understand and one the Factory Farm Education System has overlooked for way too long.

I'd be a useless teacher Dave, not because I can't teach, because I can...but because I don't and won't conform to idiotic, controlling 1984 style rules and regulations. That's all part of what is so very wrong with our schools at present. I'd never fill in forms about children or say what I think they're expectations are etc..I'd just want to help and teach them...The red tape, which is crippling the Education System and getting rid of so many excellent teachers is appalling and leaves me utterly cold.

I read the other day, that soon they're going to be testing babies and toddlers too...Lord Help Us All!

However, full marks to both you and your wife for what you are doing. I'm 100% behind excellent, caring 'natural' teachers....and dead against ones that do far more damage than good.

And now...back to Seth.... :0)

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Folkiedave
Date: 11 Mar 07 - 07:39 PM

Mrs. Route, the idea you spend ALL your time looking after your dyslexic son and your family is just laughable. People may care to count up the time you spend on message boards writing. You seem to be able to reply to any comments you don't like at any time day or night.

Granted you never read anything people have written, nor think about anything you have write, but it all still takes time.

Then there is the time you spend with Sam of course.

I was never a natural teacher. I worked hard at both organisation and academic material; was happy to learn from people around me; people who came to my classes to observe me teach; inspectors and moderators who came to examine my work and the students from whom I learned so much. I was happy to go on courses for professional development and - as you do in my branch of teaching - arrange for marketing of the course; deliver leaflets to ensure recruitment; interview and counsel students to ensure they were choosing the correct course for their chosen career path; and do the thousands of other jobs that are included in the word teaching. Including meeting parents to discuss progress. Natural teacher? I never had time to find out. But of course as someone who can teach (but also admits she is useless as a teacher - not quite got my mind around that) you will know all this.

So you only ever get satisfactory? Has it ever occurred to you this is because your work is only satisfactory? In the world of education that you have chosen to inhabit, it is not regarded as sufficient to assert things. You need evidence. I am happy to hear yours that you are better than satisfactory.

As for Artisan, well - Jacey, Brian and Hilary have been good friends for more years than I care to remember and certainly not long after they started singing almost 22 years ago. What makes you think I don't like them just because you have found out about them? I'll mention it to Jacey when I am round at their house in the next week or so. I am sure they will be delighted to know they have your support.

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Effsee
Date: 11 Mar 07 - 09:45 PM

By the way Liozzie, that link to Kitty Jay is a joke!!

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Effsee
Date: 11 Mar 07 - 09:46 PM

Sorry, *Lizzie*.

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Scrump
Date: 12 Mar 07 - 04:57 AM

Yep! That just about sums it up, and, do you know, I'm quite proud of it!

I'm glad we can agree on something at last, Shimrod :)

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 12 Mar 07 - 05:41 AM

From er...Dave:

>>>Mrs. Route, the idea you spend ALL your time looking after your dyslexic son and your family is just laughable.

Really?   Gosh...sorry about that Dave...I keep forgetting that you and your small posse know more about me than I do myself...


>>>People may care to count up the time you spend on message boards writing.

Ooh heck! I think they should really get out more if they're starting to do things like that! YIKES! Or at least...put Freedom Fields on and boogie whilst they're counting up! :0) Wiggly Dancing it's now called....ask Richard...You have to wiggle ALL those parts apparently! Double Yikes! Perhaps that's why everyone looks so happy at a Seth Gig...Hey! I'd not thought of that! Silly me! Well spotted Richard.. :0) Chuckle!

>>>You seem to be able to reply to any comments you don't like at any time day or night.

Er..nope...I simply type extraordinarily fast....Not a boast, simply how it is...takes me minutes! :0)

>>>Granted you never read anything people have written, nor think about anything you have write, but it all still takes time.

OoooooOOOOOooo...please see above for explanation.... :0)


>>>Then there is the time you spend with Sam of course.

I beg your pardon Honeybunch?


>>>I was never a natural teacher.

I could say something there Dave, after all the appalling things you've said to me lately...but I'll not lower myself to your level..

>>>I worked hard at both organisation and academic material; was happy to learn from people around me; people who came to my classes to observe me teach; inspectors and moderators who came to examine my work and the students from whom I learned so much. I was happy to go on courses for professional development and - as you do in my branch of teaching - arrange for marketing of the course; deliver leaflets to ensure recruitment; interview and counsel students to ensure they were choosing the correct course for their chosen career path; and do the thousands of other jobs that are included in the word teaching. Including meeting parents to discuss progress.

Excellent! Hope you enjoyed it all..

>>>Natural teacher? I never had time to find out.

You don't have to 'find out' if you're a natural teacher Dave, you simply just 'are'. They are the ones that all children remember when they grow up..."I had a really lovely teacher once...." Sadly so many of us only have one or two that we can recall.

>>>But of course as someone who can teach (but also admits she is useless as a teacher - not quite got my mind around that) you will know all this.

Er...no...I said I'd be useless as a teacher within 'The System' because I don't do 'The System' Dave, please read what I said and don't spin. Good try though! :0)

>>>So you only ever get satisfactory? Has it ever occurred to you this is because your work is only satisfactory?

Er...no...I said that the highest mark ANY Home Educator can EVER be awarded by the Corporate Education System is SATISFACTORY. This is probably due to the bitter minds within said system who cannot bear to think that Home Educators do a bloody excellent job and have kids who aren't spaced out, or who've given up on learning, but are kind, sociable, intelligent, good mannered and interesting...as are many kids who also attend school I hasten to add, but sadly...many are not these days. However, we have always been awarded the highest mark that it is possible to have from the Bitter, Controlling Education System. This is mainly down to my children themselves of course, and the fact that they love to learn.

>>>In the world of education that you have chosen to inhabit, it is not regarded as sufficient to assert things.

Nope...I didn't chose to 'inhabit' this world...I pulled myself apart over it m'dear. But then I realised that it was either going down this road or a black hole opening up for my kids, because of what was happening to them and what is happening to so many other children too.
Faced with that realisation, the decision is made for you. It was the hardest thing I've ever done, mainly because I too had been brainwashed into believing that 'school' was all and without school my kids would more than likely fall of the edge of the world. But despite that feeling I went to the edge of the world with them...and guess what Dave...We didn't fall off! Not only that...we stayed on...and we began to discover what 'learning and life' are truly about and it ain't about school! (purely in our opinion of course)

You need evidence. I am happy to hear yours that you are better than satisfactory.<<<

It's not just mine Dave, our EWO fair steams that he's not permitted to say anything other than 'satisfactory' on our report! Our EWO is a wonderful, brilliant, compassionate and lovely man. He deals with so many kids who've fallen out of the system for one reason or another. He's determined to help them, even though some of them don't want to be helped. He makes my kids feel like a million dollars with his uplifting, kind and supportive attitude. He says it's one of the main reasons he does this job. Because he knows there is NOTHING else that he can give us to help....other than enthusiasm. He's not 'allowed' to you see....

He is a 'natural' teacher. One who loves children, who adores learning. He's the most interesting man and always stays for tea and biccies and a jolly good natter, when he comes. He's always welcome and he always enjoys coming round and talking to my kids. We're very blessed to have someone so wonderful.

>>>As for Artisan, well - Jacey, Brian and Hilary have been good friends for more years than I care to remember and certainly not long after they started singing almost 22 years ago.

Lovely! :0)


>>>What makes you think I don't like them just because you have found out about them?

Where did I say that? I merely said that if it got up your nose that I like them...tough! You don't 'own' the rights to liking their music do you?

>>>I'll mention it to Jacey when I am round at their house in the next week or so. I am sure they will be delighted to know they have your support.

Lovely! The more people who love artists music, the better I always find and it's always uplifting to be told that someone likes your music isn't it! :0)


Honestly Dave...anyone would think you don't like me... :0) :0) :0)



Oh..and Effsee please feel free to put on any Kitty Jay link that you like..that's what this thread is here for...to talk about Seth...or at least it was....

Here, try this one...this is one Sam told me about:

Legendary Dartmoor

Lizzie :0)

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: GUEST,Keith
Date: 12 Mar 07 - 05:50 AM

I see from his website that Seth is playing the South by South West Festival in Austin, Texas this week, and a gig in New York next Monday

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Folkiedave
Date: 12 Mar 07 - 06:16 AM

Mrs. Route,

It is not the I don't like you I have never met you. How could I not like you?

I don't like the fact you write repetitive nonsense.

I don't like the fact that you seem to think you are the only person who has any worthwhile ideas about folk music.

I don't like the fact that you upset so many people with your arrogant nonsense.

I don't like the fact that you recommend a website to people that is more or less totally plagiarised.

But most of all I don't like the fact that you promised to stop writing to this message board and continue to do so.

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 12 Mar 07 - 07:41 AM

Excellent Dave....

Personally I think you should move on a bit now....best therapy really. xxx


That's lovely to hear Keith!

Rock on Seth!

I'll bet he could 'revive' JR, Pammy and Bobby, all at the same time, with his fiddle playing!....Especially in the shower!

Seth in Texas

And LOOK!!!

Seth Lakeman LIVE at Exeter Uni..on the very same day that we saw him and I wrote my review above! Sound isn't brilliant mind...but at least you can feel the atmosphere there....

Hey Dave..I'm in there somewhere, stomping, cheering AND...WIGGLING too! ;0)

Whooo Hooooo Hooooooooooooooo Sassy Smiley! :0) :0) :0)

SETH LIVE AT EXETER UNIVERSITY

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Folkiedave
Date: 12 Mar 07 - 07:57 AM

Mrs. Route - I haven't clicked on your link.

But first of all convince me that Seth knew it was being recorded and that whoever did so had HIS permission to both do so and publish it.

Otherwise it would be illegal. Shouldn't you be educating your son?

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 12 Mar 07 - 08:04 AM

Nope...it's lunchtime Dave...no worries! ;0)

I'm sure Seth wouldn'g give a flying duck to be honest....

But then...I'm a very bad girl Dave, as well you apparently think...for I ruin artist's careers by daring to peek at Youtube videos...

You can't send me to The Tower, for I'm already there...

And hey..did YOU ask permission to put my real name on here Dave?

Another slice of Holier Than Thou Hypocrite Pie m'deario?

AND...you can call me Lizzie now if you'd like...I think we're getting on SO well that we can drop the formality now...

xx

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: GUEST,Norman Bates
Date: 12 Mar 07 - 08:05 AM

For fucks sake Lizzie Rooter or whatever your name is, when will you ever learn not to try and fill the WHOLE fucking board up with just YOUR bloody stupid incessant drivel, just for once why don't you try keeping it short and to the point, you really should seek help.

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 12 Mar 07 - 08:07 AM

As a sideline, people might like to know that Eliza Carthy is also at SXSW this year. Good on her!

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 12 Mar 07 - 08:08 AM

Actually...if Seth plays Dallas he HAS to play in the shower doesn't he? He just HAS to!

Look...here he is..and Dave..this is 'official' and all, so you can watch this one..

'Lady Of The Sea'

Seth In The Rain...Otherwise known as SASSY FOLK MUSIC

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 12 Mar 07 - 08:13 AM

When Google acquired YouTube late last year they undertook to remove any illegally shot footage where an artist's rights have been flouted. There is a form on the YouTube site for submitting details of breaches of copyright and of piracy.

Can't imagine the Lakeperson management being thrilled at this being uploaded. The sound is so bad that every word is unintelligible, though this is not helped by very poor diction.

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Folkiedave
Date: 12 Mar 07 - 08:16 AM

First of all making references to real names was your speciality.

But I wanted to talk to you about Artisan.

I told Jacey you had become a fan. You'll never guess what - they have disbanded!!!!!!!

Now look what you have done....

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: GUEST,Keith
Date: 12 Mar 07 - 08:30 AM

There are 112 videos if you do a search for "Seth Lakeman" on YouTube.

I think the YouTube complaining system requires the complainer to be the actual copyright owner and say they are. It obviously does work to some degree because you occasionally find the message that content has been removed because of a complaint. Normally you see that happen mainly on TV footage. There were a whole load of clips of The Brits that got taken off when ITV or the BPI complained. The BBC also seem to have had a bit of a purge recently. The infamous Jonathan Ross interview with David Cameron has dissapeared, along with several other things that had ben there for ages. I guess that is probably all part of the BBC now having an official deal to provide YouTube with official content.

Yes, the sound quality on many mobile phone originated clips is downright diabolical!

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 12 Mar 07 - 08:34 AM

>>>I told Jacey you had become a fan. You'll never guess what - they have disbanded!!!!!!!<<<

Nah...you'll have to do better than that Dave! Artisan disbanded ages ago! Even I knew that!!

Still great to hear their music though.

Come on...type faster...you're getting left behind! Chuckle!

I don't use real names unless others have first put them down themselves by the way....

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 12 Mar 07 - 09:28 AM

Hi Scrump,

Do you think that you could see your way clear to calling me 'vicious' and 'depraved'? You see I'm really getting into this being 'evil' business and am thinking of taking it up as a career - I think that the above two words might look quite good on my CV.
I'm already thinking ahead to my new post and am planning something very, very wicked - like criticising someone's taste in music - AAAAHHHHAAAAHHHAAAAHA!!!!!!!! (that's a maniacally evil laugh, by the way - must work on that).

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Peace
Date: 12 Mar 07 - 10:19 AM

I noticed that it's snowing out,
That winter drove away the ducks,
The geese are gone, now so am I
For winter and this thread both suck.

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 12 Mar 07 - 10:45 AM

With every written scream and shout
and every personal attack
it's for themselves they bitch and lie
and for Seth Lakeman not a f...

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 12 Mar 07 - 10:46 AM

..riend

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 12 Mar 07 - 11:02 AM

Fuck fuck the winter duck
Is a song by Show of Hands
A bit like Lakeman's bunny song
That Leonard loved despite the pong
Of newly-written still wet ink
Oh sing like the winter wind
Heigh-ho! sing heigh-ho
Unto the green holly

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 12 Mar 07 - 12:01 PM

Tsk, not even a passing semblance to the work of Mr W Shakespeare.
Marks for verse composition: 0/10
Parody of rhyme, metre and language 0/10
Must try harder.

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 12 Mar 07 - 12:04 PM

Ahem. I have not taken to literary self criticism.
The remark above was intended for a piece of doggerel which has vanished.

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Andy Jackson
Date: 12 Mar 07 - 12:22 PM

Shimrod:
Maniacal laughter is spelt
WOOH HOOH HOOH HOOH HUH HUH HUH HAH HAAH

Breathy and gutteral delivery for best effect.

I'm glad this thread is getting sensible again.

A.

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: GUEST,Henry Hotspur
Date: 12 Mar 07 - 12:31 PM

>>Tsk, not even a passing semblance to the work of Mr W Shakespeare<<

That can be remedied

Speak of Seth Lakeman!
'Zounds, I will speak of him; and let my soul
Want mercy, if I do not join with him:
Yea, on his part I'll empty all these veins,
And shed my dear blood drop by drop in the dust,
But I will lift the down-trod Seth lakeman
As high in the air as this unthankful hare,
As this ingrate and canker'd white bunny.

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 12 Mar 07 - 12:42 PM

Friends, Romans, rabbit fanciers
Lend me your long, pink ears
I come to bury the Lakeperson, not to praise him.
The evil that some men do to their fiddles lives after them
The good was interred when the bunny bones were filleted
For the pie at the Brewery table.
So let it be with the Lakeperson.

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Surreysinger
Date: 12 Mar 07 - 12:46 PM

Was it supposed to be the rabbit fancier's pink ears, or the bunny's that were on loan??? Methinks... quoth she....

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: GUEST,Sparticus
Date: 12 Mar 07 - 02:32 PM

countess richard

Get thee to a bunnery!

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Folkiedave
Date: 12 Mar 07 - 02:37 PM

Dead Hares cannot be offered for sale between 1st March and 31st July.

Not many people know that. But it does mean we can't have jugged or any other sort of hare from now on for while.

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 12 Mar 07 - 02:43 PM

what about the hare pie at Hallaton on Easter Monday?

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Blowzabella
Date: 12 Mar 07 - 02:56 PM

I'm sorry but it i sLouis Killen does it for me every time - I've even got a picture of him by my desk with 'Thank you for the good times, love Louis' - I'm saying nowt!!!

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Andy Jackson
Date: 12 Mar 07 - 03:26 PM

Oh I've tried, God how I've tried and the best I can come up with is that Mr Lakeman, Sir, I think that's what Lizzie is after, is a singer. Oh he also scrapes a fiddle. I will freely admit I have only seen the clips recommended by his number one fan but then they must be him at his peak surely. I really, really will be making an effort to catch him live, it is obviously a powerful performance. But on the bits I have seen I stand by my original comment and the reason I started this thread in the first place : Anothjer Pop artist who's lost his way.
Here's a clue to my thinking. Good folk songs are carried by content, the quality of the singers voice and certainly any pop music like affectations are usually to the detriment of the song. Once I become aware of how good a singer thinks he sounds the spell is broken for me. Now this is not that I don't appreciate a good voice - Mick Ryan makes me quiver when he holds those long deep notes. But he sings as if he just happens to have a good voice. He uses his voice to show the song not the other way around as is the way with the pop world. Which of course is why most performers in that idiom all sound like their first hit. For example, The Mavericks, brilliant first hit but then a lot of copies.
Gotta go, need to think of a controversial thread to start,seem to have failed with this one!!!!!!!
(whoops, one ! is quite enough I believe)
Incidentally how do I use underline on a mudcat posting? (???)
Andy

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Folkiedave
Date: 12 Mar 07 - 03:29 PM

I have to tell you there are some women of a certain age who will fight you for him!!

And at least one I know is going for a repeat performance!!

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Blowzabella
Date: 12 Mar 07 - 03:55 PM

Whaddya mean 'Women of a certain age!!!' What certain age d'ya think I am?? (Be careful - VERY carfeul!) Louis is lovely - and my husband likes him too (and he knows he is my pin-up - my husband, that is - Louis might know it too - I can't remember).

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 12 Mar 07 - 04:03 PM

I think Louis Killen's dishy.

But I'm rapidly approaching a certain age.

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: GUEST,Wayne
Date: 12 Mar 07 - 04:07 PM

When somebody can tell me what folk music is, I might be able to accept that Seth Lakeman doesn't qualify, but it seems to me, by the time we have to bar everyone who fails to fit within the narrow boudaries certain posters want to lay down, we would be left with a very dreary scene.

It's the variety that makes folk music so vibrant. From shantymen to singer-songwriters, we should embrace (though not necessarily enjoy)it all!

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Blowzabella
Date: 12 Mar 07 - 04:07 PM

Alright, Ruth - outside - now!!! (Have you got a photo signed 'Thank you for the good times ...??? - No - thought not!) Nyar nyar!

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 12 Mar 07 - 04:16 PM

I haven't - but I could work on earning one!

:D

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Mar 07 - 05:24 PM

Anyone who can play the fiddle and sing at the same time gets my vote!!!

Not easy!!!

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Surreysinger
Date: 12 Mar 07 - 06:15 PM

Blowz - Ruth ... cool it girls! Dare I mention here spending a very pleasant hour or so chatting to him in the kitchen at the last National at Sutton Bonington over a coffee ... or is that fighting talk too??? (And I'm not saying what age I've reached or may be about to ...chuckle chuckle...)

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 12 Mar 07 - 06:36 PM


Anyone who can play the fiddle and sing at the same time gets my vote

Not quite anyone.

Eliza Carthy
Nancy Kerr
Elle Osborne
Jackie Oates
Gina Le Faux
Carole Pegg

really aren't my type.

And definitely not Phil Beer

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: GUEST,Canadienne
Date: 12 Mar 07 - 06:40 PM

I vote for Tom McConville as recommended by shhhhhh you know who :)

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 12 Mar 07 - 06:42 PM

Louis Killen can quite easily be excepted though as an English concertina is just about as good as a violin. And if he promises to lay off the C&W.

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 12 Mar 07 - 07:04 PM

*prepares to bitchslap Surreysinger over her illicit kitchen interlude with Louis Killen*

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Folkiedave
Date: 12 Mar 07 - 07:33 PM

Girls, girls, please no arguing over Louis Killen's firm young white and 70 year old body.

My friend who shall for reasons of propriety have to remain anonymous will undoubtedly fight you for the privilege of either new or repeat performances.

We need a venue, a ticket seller, and a bookie.

My friend is a redhead and was a close and meaningful friend in the sixties. She is also a Geordie by birth.

My money is on her........................

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 12 Mar 07 - 08:24 PM

Another example of UK - hype.

Mr. Misken

THANK YOU for the "Heads Up"!!!

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Andy Jackson
Date: 13 Mar 07 - 03:50 AM

Gargoyle: Don't mention it. Whatever a heads up is? Across the pond expression perhaps? Am I insulted or complimented? Ah life is but one mystery followed by a conundrum followed by a "wassat?"!

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 13 Mar 07 - 03:56 AM

Miskin man, Gargoyle is thanking you for considerately bringing this matter to his attention.

Transatlantic translation is my specialist subject.

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Andy Jackson
Date: 13 Mar 07 - 03:57 AM

Further to Gargoyle:
So I looked it up on google:-
"heads up -- As in "Giving you a heads-up" - Forewarning someone (usually a superior) of an impending event, where they would otherwise suffer negative consequences, had it not been for your selfless vigilance and concern for their well-being."

'Twould appear to be a compliment.

Ta

My partner often reminds me I am safe 'cos she has got the cushion ready for when I fall off my high horse, but sometimes things just have to be said.

Andy

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Folkiedave
Date: 13 Mar 07 - 04:06 AM

Not my cup of tea as far as music goes, but a smashing lad and I am delighted he has become an overnight success after all these years. Good luck to him and of one person comes to traditional folk via Seth that'll be all to the good.

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Andy Jackson
Date: 13 Mar 07 - 04:53 AM

Thanks Ruth, I googled, which of course is what I should have done before I replied .
Off Thread a mo. Did I read that Google were objecting to the verb use of "to google", in the context I just used it?
Must go, got to "hoover" the floor in my "caravanette"

Andy

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: English Jon
Date: 13 Mar 07 - 06:39 AM

Oh dear.

Vanilla will always be the most popular flavour.

The polarisation of opinion is incredible -

In Seth's favour, he is doing a lot to raise the profile of "folk"

even if what he's doing isn't actually folk music. (or is it?)

Give him a break - if he wants to make commercial records, why not let him?

Cheers,
Jon

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: GUEST,Keith
Date: 13 Mar 07 - 07:19 AM

The funny thing is that of the 12 tracks on Freedom Fields,about 10 are pleasant folk songs of either the contemporary or tradional variety. That nine people of the "experts" on John Leonard's rather excentrically chosen panel then decided to nominate one of the 2 tracks that had instead been given a "pop" makeover to achieve better general radio play as "best tradional song" was just laughable.

It is noteworthy however that the King & Country, the third single extracted from Freedom Fields was not "popped-up" and promptly sank without trace. It did not even trouble the Top 75, let alone the Top 40, which The Lady Of The Sea and The White Hare just missed. While Seth has had a (so far) brief huge success in "folk" terms, what he has achieved so far in music industry terms is pretty small. I predict that once EMI decide he is not "the next" KT Tunstall, Damien Rice, David Gray or James Blunt they will get bored and you'll find Seth will naturally gravitate back towards the "folk" scene. It has happened to plenty before him.

I quite like listening to Seth for a change of tempo, but he is not my listening of choice. One CD's worth is fine, but if you listen to Kitty Jay and Freedom Fields back to back they almost sound like the same double album, and far too many of the songs do sound the same. But hey, I'm someone that went along to a Seth gig last year expecting to have to "put up" with his "support" Billy Bragg and came away hugely impressed with the latter.

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Scrump
Date: 13 Mar 07 - 07:28 AM

Incidentally how do I use underline on a mudcat posting?

Like this of course!

It's the variety that makes folk music so vibrant. From shantymen to singer-songwriters, we should embrace (though not necessarily enjoy)it all!

Well said, GUEST,Wayne.

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 13 Mar 07 - 07:41 AM

See? Keith came to see Seth, and walked away a Billy Bragg fan! Nice to have confirmation that all these youngsters are benefitting from Seth making folk more accessible!

*takes tongue out of cheek*

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: pirandello
Date: 13 Mar 07 - 08:12 AM

Someone earlier (Shimrod?) said he was fed up with folk music being 'buggered about with' by 'trendies'.
Well I've got news for him-every 'traditional' tune has been buggered about with for centuries-just look at how many different versions there are of many of them. Folk music didn't stop in 1650 or 1829 or whenever but evolved and continues to do so, thankfully.
And while I'm at it why do so many traditionalists adopt a strange, nasal singing style with peculiar accents?
How do they know what constitutes being 'authentic'? They weren't around in 1747 and so have absolutely no idea how the song was sung.
Like most folk music which wasn't written down songs were passed on verbally and, naturally, they change over time.
So, someone explain please what constitutes tradition; hell, even 'folk' music. What's that then?

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: GUEST,Keith
Date: 13 Mar 07 - 08:12 AM

Well, I'm young enough that one of the new CDs I bought last week was the chart topping new Kaiser Chiefs' album. But the other was the Bryan Ferry CD of Dylan covers that is number 5. Bryan is slightly closer to my age than Ricky Martin (or Seth). I seemed to be one of the younger people at last week's Joan Baez gig (which was a fantastic night out), but I was one of the oldest at the previous months Russell Brand one. Bet I'll be one of the oldest at Jimmy Carr on Saturday too!

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: Scrump
Date: 13 Mar 07 - 08:20 AM

Well, I'm young enough that one of the new CDs I bought last week was the chart topping new Kaiser Chiefs' album. But the other was the Bryan Ferry CD of Dylan covers that is number 5. Bryan is slightly closer to my age than Ricky Martin (or Seth). I seemed to be one of the younger people at last week's Joan Baez gig (which was a fantastic night out), but I was one of the oldest at the previous months Russell Brand one. Bet I'll be one of the oldest at Jimmy Carr on Saturday too!

Good for you, GUEST,Keith. Glad to see you're not letting your age stop you from enjoying all sorts of music or comedy, etc.

Subject: RE: So thats seth lakeman is it
From: JohnB
Date: 13 Mar 07 - 08:48 PM

Personally I don't know much about him or his music BUT he did get played today on CBC radio in Canada. SO he can't be Folk!
Sounded a bit poppy to me.
JohnB