BS: Cindy Sheehan to be arrested tomorrow

Subject: RE: BS: Cindy Sheehan to be arrested tomorrow
From: beardedbruce
Date: 11 Aug 05 - 10:00 PM

Bobert,

Recognize any of these?



"There is a real danger when a sigment of society becomes so brainwashed that they cannot tolerate other folks view points and America is rapidly becoming just that... "

"Unless you are capable and willing to look beyond *your* side then you are allready in the loser category in my book. I mean no disrespect here but life isn't about winning law suits but being able to find common ground or selling visions."

"When we take upon ourselves to be as vindictive as our foes, we have lost..."

Subject: RE: BS: Cindy Sheehan to be arrested tomorrow
From: Azizi
Date: 11 Aug 05 - 09:47 PM

Click HERE
for a number of editorial cartoons and blogger's comments about President Bush's response [or lack of response] to Cindy Sheehan.

Subject: RE: BS: Cindy Sheehan to be arrested tomorrow
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Aug 05 - 09:44 PM

bobad, the anti-war movement is everywhere, including on college campuses. They have organized large demonstrations in DC, as well as coordinated national and international anti-war events in public, on the interet, and through the alternative media channels you may not be familiar with (like Democracy Now, Air America, NOW, The Daily Show with Jon Stewart, etc). The mainstream media has blocked all access to the political dissenters in this country for years, but the problem has become much worse since 2000, when Bush was selected.

As to an impending arrest. Cindy clarified that in a number of interviews today, as the person(s) posting to Daily Kos apparently didn't understand what was going on. According to Cindy, the local sheriff is currently saying no one will be arrested, as long as no one breaks the law. She said it was the Secret Service who was attempting to get them to leave by intimidating them. Hence, the story began to get circulated that she was about to be arrested for national security reasons. What she said to clarify that was she doesn't believe they are in danger of being arrested by the local sheriff at this time, and if they were forcibly removed today, during the night, etc. it would most likely be the Secret Service deciding to intervene.

No one knows how local law enforcement and the Secret Service will deal with the situation as it grows. Many people are reported to be pouring int Crawford from all over to join the protest. They are allowed to come join the protest during the day, but only a small number of activists are being allowed to camp there at night. The activists fear that if they all left at night to sleep elsewhere, that they would be blocked from returning again. Ironically, it seems to be the presence of the media that has gone out of it's way to ignore the anti-war movement, the White House press corps, that has kept the protesters safe and in place. After Bush's public dissing of Cindy and the other mothers who have assembled with her today at his fundraising event, it is unclear how much more attention the protestors will be afforded by the White House press.

Subject: RE: BS: Cindy Sheehan to be arrested tomorrow
From: Peace
Date: 11 Aug 05 - 09:27 PM

Also, I recall someone who was very pro-Bush saying that the US would be out of Iraq by last February. He seems to be elsewhere. I haven't been awaiting an explanation, but one would be nice to read.

Subject: RE: BS: Cindy Sheehan to be arrested tomorrow
From: Peace
Date: 11 Aug 05 - 09:23 PM

The pro-Bush folks are being quieter than usual on this thread. Maybe he's losing his appeal to them. He's getting real hard to brag about isn't he? It seems that initially his victory was the issue. Yeah, Bush WON. (Democrats would have done the same.) BUT, now with Bush seeming to drop in the polls, and the after-election flush of victory paling, it's possible there are a few sober afterthoughts. One would hope so, anyway.

Subject: RE: BS: Cindy Sheehan to be arrested tomorrow
From: Bobert
Date: 11 Aug 05 - 09:17 PM

And, hey, I'm gettin' a little tired of hearin' the neo-con PR machine program their little apologists to go out and say dumbass stuff like, "Well, this is your opinion..."

Excuse my language, but this is pure bullsh*t!

Let's do a little review here:

During the run-up to war the Bushites said:

1. Saddam is trying to crank up nmuclear weapons. Rememeber the talk of mushroom clouds??? At the time there were credible folks oput there not being covered by the mainstream media but out there none the less sayin' "Bullsh*t"... And there were lots of us her at mudcat trying to get the brownshirt Bushites to listen but all they wanted to do was call us un-American and say that was just our opinion. Sound familar?

2. Then it was WMD's... Same game, same players, same results. It too was bullsh8t...

3. Aluminum tubes... Same

4. Links to AlQuida... Same

But all along it was those who were *correct* who were constatntly being portaryed as the ones with the "opinions"...

Many of us predicted an urban war that would end up in a quagmire... And what did the Bushite apologists do.. Called us unAmerican and opinionated???

Seein' a pattern yet???

So, after the "Mission Accomplished" fiesko where Bush fakes like he had landed a jet on an aircraft and congratulated all the service for a job well done we entered the post "Mission Accomplished" PR phase of the same-old-tune crapola...

5. Saddam was a bad man!!! Rememeber that one??? Oh, now that was going to get the "opinionated" opponents in line...More tax payer bought PR Bullsh*t...

6. Well, we're bringing "democrarcy" to the Iraqi people... Oh yeah, like how ya gonna do that when you don't care about it here (think the 2000 election theft)... (Oh, but that's just yer opinion, Bobert...) Bullsh*t!!! Read Greg Palast's book and come back and say that... The evidence is overwhelming... (But that's yer opinion, Bobert...) No, not really... Read the friggin' book...

So here we are. Looks like those of of with the opinions have proven out to be the ones who were correct????

How do any of you Bush-heads respond to that???

And yet what do we get as the Number One defensive arguement from the neo-con puppets/parrots: We have a difference of opinion...

Danged right we do and our side just happens to be skunkin' yer side...

No brag, just fact!!!

Peace

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Cindy Sheehan to be arrested tomorrow
From: bobad
Date: 11 Aug 05 - 08:10 PM

Perhaps Cindy Sheehan's action will provide the nucleus around which a protest movement will crystalize. I've been wondering why such a movement has not already arisen especially in the universities.

Subject: RE: BS: Cindy Sheehan to be arrested tomorrow
From: Peace
Date: 11 Aug 05 - 07:16 PM

'Republican strategist Kellyanne Conway, president of the Washington-based firm The Polling Company, said: "Cindy Sheehan has tapped into a latent but fervent feeling among some in this country who would prefer that we not engage our troops in Iraq. She can tap into what has been an astonishingly silent minority since the end of last year's presidential contest. It will capture attention."'

Subject: RE: BS: Cindy Sheehan to be arrested tomorrow
From: Bobert
Date: 11 Aug 05 - 06:47 PM

Will any of the Bush apologists here who have lost a child in Iraq please step forward...

Subject: RE: BS: Cindy Sheehan to be arrested tomorrow
From: CarolC
Date: 11 Aug 05 - 06:44 PM

So did she get arrested today? Anybody got any updates on this situation?

Subject: RE: BS: Cindy Sheehan to be arrested tomorrow
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Aug 05 - 06:37 PM

Well Carol, we'll have to agree to disagree. I don't see how pointing out the nationality of a poster moves the discussion forward. It just plays into one of the forum's more dysfunctional aspects of labelling people in ways that just feeds stereotypical, preconceived notions of "the other".

Subject: RE: BS: Cindy Sheehan to be arrested tomorrow
From: CarolC
Date: 11 Aug 05 - 06:22 PM

It's an open, international forum. Anyone is free to express an opinion, regardless of whether or not they are able to vote in the US.

I never said otherwise, GUEST,11 Aug 05 - 05:38 PM. I disagree that it is a distraction though. I am always interested in where people come from especially in the context of discussions like this one. Clinton is free to disagree with Cindy's methods, and I am free to point out the fact that he does it from the perspective of someone who does not participate in US politics on a personal level.

Subject: RE: BS: Cindy Sheehan to be arrested tomorrow
From: Cluin
Date: 11 Aug 05 - 06:21 PM

New to Mudcat, Guest? It's the tangents around here that provide the real interest.

And Carol, that's getting a bit too hair-splitty for me. Process.. Outcome... whatever! If I'm getting reamed, I'm getting reamed. It's all down to whether I'm enjoying it or not, process or outcome. Watching your processes getting highjacked was not enjoyable.

Subject: RE: BS: Cindy Sheehan to be arrested tomorrow
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Aug 05 - 05:38 PM

What does a forum member being Canadian have to do with Cindy Sheehan? It's an open, international forum. Anyone is free to express an opinion, regardless of whether or not they are able to vote in the US.

It seems to me this Canadian/American thing isn't really on topic in this thread at all, and is distracting us from the discussion, rather than clarifying anything.

Subject: RE: BS: Cindy Sheehan to be arrested tomorrow
From: CarolC
Date: 11 Aug 05 - 05:19 PM

Actually, Cluin, your political processes are a source of fascination for me. And while the outcomes are important to me because I hope to some day have dual US/Canadian citizenship, until I have right to vote in Canada, the process itself is not something that concerns me personally one way or another. I think the distinction between process and outcome is very significant for the purpose of this discussion.

Subject: RE: BS: Cindy Sheehan to be arrested tomorrow
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Aug 05 - 05:17 PM

Here is a poem written by one of Cindy Sheehan's family members: one of her daughters.

A Nation Rocked to sleep

by Carly Sheehan
Brother Casey KIA 04/04/04
Sadr City Baghdad

Have you ever heard the sound of a mother screaming for her son?
The torrential rains of a mother's weeping will never be done
They call him a hero, you should be glad that he's one, but
Have you ever heard the sound of a mother screaming for her son?

Have you ever heard the sound of a father holding back his cries?
He must be brave because his boy died for another man's lies
The only grief he allows himself are long, deep sighs
Have you ever heard the sound of a father holding back his cries?

Have you ever heard the sound of taps played at your brother's grave?
They say that he died so that the flag will continue to wave
But I believe he died because they had oil to save
Have you ever heard the sound of taps played at your brother's grave?

Have you ever heard the sound of a nation being rocked to sleep?
The leaders want to keep you numb so the pain won't be so deep
But if we the people let them continue another mother will weep
Have you ever heard the sound of a nation being rocked to sleep?

* * * * * * *

Still waiting on a copy of the family letter at the Drudge Report, telling Cindy to "shut up".

Subject: RE: BS: Cindy Sheehan to be arrested tomorrow
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 11 Aug 05 - 05:12 PM

"America is still a free country"

At that price, I'll take it...

*Dials phone... Hello? Russia? I have something you might be interested in...*

With appologies to Seth Green

;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Cindy Sheehan to be arrested tomorrow
From: Cluin
Date: 11 Aug 05 - 05:09 PM

Oh we can have a personal stake, just not a voice.

But then you don't have a voice in ours either. But I doubt that keeps you up at night (or maybe it does, remembering who you're married too).   ;)

Subject: RE: BS: Cindy Sheehan to be arrested tomorrow
From: CarolC
Date: 11 Aug 05 - 05:04 PM

I think it is accurate to say that your interest in the outcomes of our political processes go way beyond that of spectator. But the process itself is not something you can have any personal stake in unless you are entitled to vote in the US.

Subject: RE: BS: Cindy Sheehan to be arrested tomorrow
From: Cluin
Date: 11 Aug 05 - 04:59 PM

"Clinton's interest in the political process in the US is more as a spectator, since he is a Canadian citizen living in Canada."

I thought you knew better than that, CarolC. Our interest in the political process south of our border certainly exceeds that of mere spectator. Even for Clinton, though he'd probably profess otherwise.

If the U.S. farts, we get a full whiff.

There are also benefits, I hasten to add.

Subject: RE: BS: Cindy Sheehan to be arrested tomorrow
From: CarolC
Date: 11 Aug 05 - 04:50 PM

Clinton's interest in the political process in the US is more as a spectator, since he is a Canadian citizen living in Canada.

Subject: RE: BS: Cindy Sheehan to be arrested tomorrow
From: beardedbruce
Date: 11 Aug 05 - 04:45 PM

"and I also honor that this is America and there's - differing viewpoints and we all have the right to express our viewpoints. "

Condy Sheenan



"I don't know why you folks (some of you) seem to think it is accurate appropriate or acceptable to sling these damn labels around and pass judgments on huge lots of people in one swoop by classifying them as .... ( party deleted) or whatever. It is unconscionably poor thinking to make gross generalizations like that and pretend that some aspect of the label applies to all members of the class. It is not only bad thinking, it is also unjust to members of the set, and it is also -- because it distorts truth and promotes falsehood -- unethical. "

Amos

"I think thereis a third class, too -- the ones whose destructiveness toward others is hidden in little needling remarks, the chronic correctors of others, the passive-aggressive under-miners and invalidators, who sweetly suggest you are worth very little, just for your own good, and end up stopping you from breathing, the secret saboteurs and artfully smiling destroyers of spirit. They don't look destructive until you trust or rely on them."

Amos


"Decency, courtesy, and a respect for the underlying commonalities will always make for a lively and interesting dialogue amongst those of differing ideas. "

Amos

"It is the wild generalizations of sardonic hate -- which are untruthful, adversarial and essentially without any referent by which they could be called truth -- that annoys me. "

Amos



"You seem incapable of accepting that people disagree with you. You think that the reason people don't come over to your point of view is that they have some sort of "mindset" against it--You are wrong in that view. Reasonable and intelligent people can differ on things and usually do--the fact that you don't understand that makes it look like you are not a reasonable or intelligent person-- "

M Ted

Subject: RE: BS: Cindy Sheehan to be arrested tomorrow
From: Azizi
Date: 11 Aug 05 - 04:36 PM

ClintonHammond, you have a right to your opinion as I do, and as Cindy Sheehan does, and all others.

After all, America is still a free country, right?

Subject: RE: BS: Cindy Sheehan to be arrested tomorrow
From: Amos
Date: 11 Aug 05 - 04:34 PM

I suggest she has a great deal more courage, and more moral authority, than any of those who are upbraiding her in these pages. To put it mildly; I submit that blind adherence to an immoral posture, on the basis of an authoritarian source, is cowardly.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Cindy Sheehan to be arrested tomorrow
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 11 Aug 05 - 04:31 PM

" I admire Cindy Sheehan's courage"

I applaud her courage... it's her methods I think are questionable...

Subject: RE: BS: Cindy Sheehan to be arrested tomorrow
From: Azizi
Date: 11 Aug 05 - 04:29 PM

See excerpts of an ABC TV transcript with Cindy Sheehan


CHARLES GIBSON
(Voice Over) You did have a meeting with the president just after Casey had died, and he came to console ...

CINDY SHEEHAN
Right.

CHARLES GIBSON
(Voice Over) ... the family. Why didn't you make the points to him then?

CINDY SHEEHAN
Well, mostly because my son had only been dead for about nine weeks and I was in a deep state of shock and a -deep state of grief, and I didn't really know, the Dalfour weapons of mass destruction report hadn't come out, the - Senate intelligence report, the 9/11 Commission report, the Downing Street memos, and those all just proved to me that this war was based on lies and it never should have happened. (in reporters terms, that's called the "nut graf".
And so I went from a deep state of shock to a deep state of anger.

CHARLES GIBSON
(Off Camera) I want to play for you a brief soundbite from a man named Jim Boskovitch who was interviewed by George Stephanopoulos this past Sunday and whose son just did die as well in Iraq. I want you to listen to what he had to say.

JIM BOSKOVITCH, SON KILLED IN IRAQ
I firmly believe, and I would echo my son's feelings on this, that it is very, very important for our country to remain steadfast and complete the mission that they set out to accomplish.

CHARLES GIBSON
(Off Camera) There are a lot of parents who feel that way, who've lost children over there. What, what do you say to them? Does what you're doing in any way disrespect their loss?

CINDY SHEEHAN
No. I don't believe so. I believe that the only way we can honor our children's memory is -by bringing the rest of them home alive.

But I'd like to say to these people is, number one, I wish they could tell me what the mission is 'cause the mission changes all the time and the mission is very ill-defined.

And, number two, I would never, ever question how a parent has to grieve their loss because his son came home the same way my son came home, and I honor the way he feels, and I, and I also honor that this is America and there's - differing viewpoints and we all have the right to express our viewpoints. And I reach out to every single family who, who has lost loved ones in this war because we're all going through the same pain.

And I just want to say that our children are being honored, and, and a lot of them died saving their buddies and that's what we're trying to do. We're trying to save their buddies..."

-snip-

As to an email that was purported to have been sent to Drudge from Cindy Sheenhan's family disgreeing with her actions, if indeed an email really did come from one member or multiple members of Sheehan's family [and I'm not totally convinced it did], so?

Family members rarely agree on everything-even important things.
Everyone has to make his or her own decisions.

I admire Cindy Sheehan's courage to take a stand for what she believes is right.




Azizi

Subject: RE: BS: Cindy Sheehan to be arrested tomorrow
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Aug 05 - 04:29 PM

LarryK, the Drudge Report and Bill O'Reilly's show both have a pro-Bush agenda. They are spearheading the right wing media drive to discredit Cindy Sheehan. Who, by the way, doesn't need ANYONE's "permission"--not her son's, not her family's--to speak her mind. What an unbelieveably sexist crock THAT is.

The woman is the mother of a soldier killed in action in a war she believes is illegal and unjust. THAT is the source of her personal power. But her authority is no lesser or greater than any other citizen who has the constitutional right to freely speak her mind anywhere she chooses, and to petition her government leaders to meet her and discuss policies she feels are detrimental to the nation.

BTW, do tell--no, SHOW us this purported letter telling her to shut up, won't you?

As to her refusal to appear again on the O'Reilly factor, if you go to Joe Trippi's blog, you will hear an interview with her explaining the reasons why she chose not to appear on his show a second time (hint: it has something to do with the despicable treatment she received on her first appearance on his program).

As to her "changing her story" crap: that is an out and out lie. She first met with Bush while in the very early stages of her grief, shortly after her son died. Peoples' entire worlds change when they experience the loss of a loved one, and a parent's anger and anguish over the death of a child often is a trigger for them to transform themselves and their lives. Just ask Patty Wetterling or or John Walsh.

The only people who never change are inflexible, fearful people like you, LarryK, who keep your head down in the sand, and refuse to change or consider any views and opinions that differ from yours and your tribe.

GuestG, Ms Cindy isn't misrepresenting herself in any way. As she said in an interview you can listen to over on Joe Trippi's blogsite, just because she wasn't on the radar of the right wing media and blogosphere doesn't mean she just suddenly showed up on the side of Prairie Chapel Rd in Crawford, Texas last Saturday out of the blue.

She has been active in the anti-war movement since her son was killed, and even testified before Congress on the Downing Street memo. She co-founded Gold Star Families for Peace. I wouldn't compare her to Rosa Parks, as much as I would to Patty Wetterling. One reason why Cindy words carry so much power is because she has actually had the "ultimate sacrifice" forced upon her, in the same way that Patty Wetterling and John Walsh were when their children were kidnapped. The "noble cause" they serve is the memory of their dead children.

BTW LarryK, have you lost a son or daughter in Iraq? Have Drudge or O'Reilly? Has George W. Bush, who has draft-age daughters?

Subject: RE: BS: Cindy Sheehan to be arrested tomorrow
From: CarolC
Date: 11 Aug 05 - 04:27 PM

We haven't "earned" it, even though we are entitled to it.

Subject: RE: BS: Cindy Sheehan to be arrested tomorrow
From: GUEST,Clint Keller
Date: 11 Aug 05 - 04:26 PM

A US soldier is supposed to fight for a good cause in US terms. That's pretty vague, but I don't think it includes an administration's vanity war.

Howsomever, some people automatically support authority and the status quo. Like the well-known "Good Germans" in Hitler's time. Decent people, except when it conflicted with being submissive.

clint

Subject: RE: BS: Cindy Sheehan to be arrested tomorrow
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 11 Aug 05 - 04:11 PM

"She has earned the right to say what she is saying"

Ya... but so have you... and so have I... and so has everyone else... So it seems to me, that makes it pretty worthless...

Subject: RE: BS: Cindy Sheehan to be arrested tomorrow
From: CarolC
Date: 11 Aug 05 - 04:07 PM

She has earned the right to say what she is saying, regardless of whether or not anyone else agrees with her. She devoted the better part of twenty years of her life to raising and caring for the gun fodder her government sent into harm's way. She has a right to disagree with the use to which her government put her son's very short life.

And on the subject of the quotes from the prior meeting, Cindy has said that she had agreed that that particular occassion was not the time to be making political statements. Plus, Larry K, you and Mr. Drudge have taken her comments out of context. In context, they mean something entirely different than what Mr. Drudge is making them out to mean.

Subject: RE: BS: Cindy Sheehan to be arrested tomorrow
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 11 Aug 05 - 04:03 PM

"I'd chew ya up and spit you out"
From what I read, reported on the mensroom walls, you don't spit...

"be aware you may have chillun some day"
Don't threaten me like that!! And well, if we ever do breed, they sure as HELL won't be joining the military...

"They feel she is a disgrace and does not speak for any of them."
Smart people....

Subject: RE: BS: Cindy Sheehan to be arrested tomorrow
From: GUEST,Larry K
Date: 11 Aug 05 - 03:57 PM

Have any of you read the open letter from Cindy Sheehan's family-   It basically tells her to shut up.   They feel she is a disgrace and does not speak for any of them.   You can find this open letter on the Druge Report as well as other sources.

Have any of you read the comments from Cindy Sheehan after her meeting with Bush a year or two ago?   She thanked Bush for his compassion and understanding and felt he lifted her spirits.

(I am sorry for bringing these two issues up- I know how it ruins the rantings in the previous e-mails- never let the facts get in the way of a good story)

The question I would want to know- was she lying then or is she lying now?   Both stories are completely contradictory.   What made her change her story?   Heaven forbid a media person to ask that question or bring up her previous comments.

She was supposed to appear on O'Reilly last night but cancelled.   another gutless coward.

Subject: RE: BS: Cindy Sheehan to be arrested tomorrow
From: Amos
Date: 11 Aug 05 - 03:57 PM

Aw, be of witchoo, ya bloody brick-headed cuss. If I didn't like ya so much I'd chew ya up and spit you out. I gootcher mongrel tidbit right here!!

Now that yer married, be aware you may have chillun some day, at which point you may be better equipped to see where Ms Sheehan is coming from.

Love,


A

Subject: RE: BS: Cindy Sheehan to be arrested tomorrow
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 11 Aug 05 - 03:52 PM

"it's supposed to be for a good cause"
Says who? I'm sure the guys who crashed the jets into the WTC were certain they were doing it for a good cause too...

Rev Jim Jones was leading his followers for a Good Cause...

Tim McVey rented that truck for a Good Cause...

The Crusades were lead by evil visious men, for a good cause...

Hitler did what he did for what he believed to be A Good Casue...

White people thought it was for A Good Cause, what they did to Africans and Native Americans...

I'm sure a Good Cause put that round into the font of JFKs head too...

Seems to me this so called "Good Cause" isn't very good at all...

Amos... mongrel this ya great Nancy...

Subject: RE: BS: Cindy Sheehan to be arrested tomorrow
From: Amos
Date: 11 Aug 05 - 03:42 PM

Sheeshe, Clinton...you are such a mongrel sometimes!


A

Subject: RE: BS: Cindy Sheehan to be arrested tomorrow
From: GUEST,Clint Keller
Date: 11 Aug 05 - 03:41 PM

" That's their job... to kill, blow stuff up and die... "

But in this country at least, it's supposed to be for a good cause.

Nobody approves of the Charge of the Light Brigade nowadays. Except authoritarian assholes.

clint

Subject: RE: BS: Cindy Sheehan to be arrested tomorrow
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 11 Aug 05 - 03:29 PM

Awww... a solider got killed... boo hoo...

That's their job... to kill, blow stuff up and die...

I am thankful they DO their job...

That way -I- don't have to

Subject: RE: BS: Cindy Sheehan to be arrested tomorrow
From: GUEST,G
Date: 11 Aug 05 - 03:03 PM

Are not our opinions and thoughts based on what we read, see and hear?
Whether the information is factual, biased, untrue or a result of propaganda from both sides of the aisle.

Much is being made if Ms. Cindy. I will simply say to wait and see what is the result of those efforts. I found out, many years ago in the political spectrum, that first impressions are not always true and that personal hurt can result. It has only gotten worse no matter where in the whirlpool of politics you are floating.

Subject: RE: BS: Cindy Sheehan to be arrested tomorrow
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Aug 05 - 02:55 PM

But Guest G, that's just another propaganda ploy, claiming that everything is "just opinion" and a propaganda strategy used when one is trying to be dismissive.

Some things are opinions, true. Some things are agreed upon facts.

It is a fact that the current "swift boating" of Cindy Sheehan is taking place in the right wing media, and your post is itself ample evidence of it.

Subject: RE: BS: Cindy Sheehan to be arrested tomorrow
From: GUEST,G
Date: 11 Aug 05 - 02:51 PM

M.Ted

I acknowledge Guest by saying "and they are just that, thoughts and opinions, yours, mine and everyones". In his case, I don't him to "come to my point of view". He and I don't agree and that is fine.
I am surprised that you cant come up with a diagnosis based on so little evidence. My one post.
Reminds me of Senator Bill Frist in the Schiavo saga.

Subject: RE: BS: Cindy Sheehan to be arrested tomorrow
From: M.Ted
Date: 11 Aug 05 - 12:43 PM

Guest G,

You seem incapable of accepting that people disagree with you. You think that the reason people don't come over to your point of view is that they have some sort of "mindset" against it--You are wrong in that view. Reasonable and intelligent people can differ on things and usually do--the fact that you don't understand that makes it look like you are not a reasonable or intelligent person--

Subject: RE: BS: Cindy Sheehan to be arrested tomorrow
From: Amos
Date: 11 Aug 05 - 12:09 PM

What she is doing takes a lot of balls. I woudl like to see any documentation or reference to the notion that she is being controlled by an organization. It isn't costing her much to stand on county land in Texas and all the publicity is being generated by news media as part of their overhead. So what are you talking about, G?

I think the Rosa Parkes analogy is appropriate.

And to use a standard Rpeublican line of logic "if so much good is being accomplished in Iraq, how come the media aren't all over it talking about it?" .

A

Subject: RE: BS: Cindy Sheehan to be arrested tomorrow
From: GUEST,G
Date: 11 Aug 05 - 12:08 PM

Guest, "A Dad for Cindy"

Mindsets are a strange situation. Yours is so set in stone that it can prevent you from reading anothers' opinions/thoughts in a proper context.

I give - it is not worth it.

And they are just that, thoughts and opinions, yours, mine and everyones.

Subject: RE: BS: Cindy Sheehan to be arrested tomorrow
From: GUEST,A dad for Cindy
Date: 11 Aug 05 - 11:57 AM

Guest, G

One would be an idiot to expect the majority of soldiers currently serving in Iraq to be courageous enough to take a stand against this war. Their job, after all, is to fight any and every war their political leaders send them into, without question. That is how they have been educated by their military trainers and the isolated military culture to live and breathe in day after day.

However, there are, as I suggested in posting the Brecht poem above, men and women who will always retain their critical thinking skills as a survival mechanism. And they retain those human faculties and think for themselves, regardless of how hard the military, the political establishment, and those institutions' sycophant media tries to "re-educate" them not to.

You are also making an erroneous suggestion: that the families and friends of those who have chosen to put themselves in the military, and hence "in harm's way" must all agree with their military loved one's beliefs and choices. That also is ridiculous. The way for family members and friends to "support the troops" is simply to love them unconditionally, and do what they think is right, even when it is at cross-purposes with their loved ones in the military.

It isn't a sign of love or support to privately or publicly go against one's own moral beliefs, especially on such grave matters of moral importance as war and the waging of it, simply to appease and mollify those who "support the mission". If you believe what the US & UK military is doing is causing grievous harm to themselves, to others (like the Iraqi people), and creating social, economic, and political instability and a state of perpetual violence in the process at home and in the theatre of war, then why would you shut up and be silent in the face of what is happening?

The tone and content of your posting suggests you may not be much more than a pawn of neo-con conservatism, who can't or won't think for themselves. I say this because you don't even grasp the fact that we can easily detect that you are simply parroting the Republican party line on Cindy Sheehan's protest. You strike me as yet another brand loyal Republican, who refuses to think critically for themselves and instead parrots whatever the pundits and politicians say. People like that, be they Republican or Democrat brand loyalists never think critically, much less rationally, of what is best for the nation and the world, which is what our actual duty is as citizens of this supposedly free republic.

It isn't our duty to blindly support unjust wars fought by the poor to enrich the wealthy elite. And thankfully, the lazy American public is starting to wise up to the fact that is what the Iraq war is really all about. It doesn't take a Democrat, Republican or a rocket scientist to look at the price of oil before George Bush and Dick Cheney's war, and to look at the price of oil today. The worse the violence in Iraq, the higher the oil companies raise the price at the pump and get away with robbing the people and the planet of their future.

Cindy Sheehan is living proof of someone who regrets not taking a stand against the war BEFORE it happened, because she knows that if enough people in her position as a mother of a soldier being sent into harms way might just have been able to prevent the war from ever happening in the first place.

I can't imagine how haunted she and her husband must be by their inability to convince their son not to go to Iraq. Anyone who attempts to silence her raw rage at the cause of her son's death is just plain playing partisan Republican games of the most despicable sort.

This woman is genuine. The real deal. She once chose to keep silent about her opposition to the war, in order to conform to the tremendous pressures put upon military families to silence dissent in order to "support the troops", which as any thinking person knows, is merely a euphemism used by the military and political neo-con propagandists unquestioningly go along with the policies of the political establishment. Her rage is morally justified, which is why the Republican neo-con right is cowering in fear of her. They would do well to remember the Shakespeare adage of "hell hath no fury..." and stop scorning her and the other family members of the military now protesting the war.

People like these few good men for instance.

Or the Iraq Veterans Against the War.

Or Veterans for Peace.

Or the military families group Bring Them Home Now.

Or Military Families Speak Out.

Now, perhaps you haven't heard that there is a considerable movement of military families and members of the military who are united in their opposition to this war. That is understandable, considering the the mainstream media has heretofore refused to cover this burdeoning movement for fear of being "swift boated" by a well oiled neo-con propaganda machine. The political brilliance of this particular woman's strategy is breathtaking though: she went straight to the gates of Mordor, knowing that the entire White House press corps couldn't ignore her. She was right about that, even though it appears it was only her and one other woman who decided to storm the gates last Saturday after leaving the Veterans for Peace convention in Dallas. Not even the longest, most hardened veterans of the peace movement saw her coming.

Those facts, and the fact that she will not temper her rage and anger, and DEMANDS answers to the tough questions our political and media establishment should have been asking years ago before the US sent in the troops, is what gives this woman such tremendous power.

And I note that Senator John Kerry's name was NOT on the list of Democratic lawmakers who wrote a letter to Bush, urging him to honor this citizen's right to petition her government and express her views to the commander in chief about the execution of the war that took her son from her. Which speaks volumes about both him, and the mainstream Democrats. At least Joe Trippi had the woman on his radar.

Subject: RE: BS: Cindy Sheehan to be arrested tomorrow
From: GUEST,G
Date: 11 Aug 05 - 10:47 AM

Do you people ever consider reading other news, articles, etc.?
While I am pretty much a centrist (and I do have my own opinions) It is my policy to try and obtain information from all the angles. I did not denigrate WJC like this even though I felt that was the greatest waste of brainpower ever.

This lady met with GWB earlier this year. She is now a pawn of a couple radical left organizations. Do you think she is funding this escapade on her own? No, she won't take anyone out, how in the hell could she? What a ridiculous thing to think, let alone say!

Regarding the Washington Post article, don't think for a minute they will print anything to the contrary. I will look up an article I read the past couple days where a letter home to his Mother was read at his service. How he believed in what he was doing, it was an honor for him to be in Iraq and if people only realized the truth of how much positive had been accomplished.

Agreed that some war vets have that attitude but not the majority. We have them volunteering to go back to Iraq after receiving a prosthesis. And going. Stories like the Washington Post pale in comparsion to the Regular Army reinlistment rate of 85 plus percent, 100 percent in some units. Of course, you will not see that on Buzz lash,moveon.org or hear it on Air America.

It will be years before we really know the results of this Iraq war or all the aspects involved. The starvation of people there due to the UN scandal involving food for oil has been discovered and corrected. The UN,an abreviation for 'UNnecessary.

Subject: RE: BS: Cindy Sheehan to be arrested tomorrow
From: Amos
Date: 11 Aug 05 - 10:36 AM

"On Friday, Bush will have to pass by Sheehan in his climate- controlled car with its tinted windows, kicking up dust and caking Sheehan's sunburned face, or forgo a fundraiser at a nearby spread. Bush lives in a bubble -- his pre-screened audiences applaud him for platitudes and for his resolve. He goes nowhere alone. He took Dick Cheney along to his interview with the 9/11 Commission.

He isn't refusing to see Sheehan because he's callous but because he's like those of us listening to Lipscomb. Alone with Sheehan, he might find himself crying, over something his privileged position means he will never have to endure. "

From link above by Peace.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Cindy Sheehan to be arrested tomorrow
From: Azizi
Date: 11 Aug 05 - 03:26 AM

Peace,

I just checked in here at 2:50ish and clicked on the link you provided in your post [Margaret Carlson's supportive article about Cindy Sheehan]. Then I went to Daily Kos and found out that they don't have news of this article yet.

That blog seems to usually have the very latest news articles about Cathy Sheehan before any other website.

Good looking out!

Positive vibrations,


Azizi

Subject: RE: BS: Cindy Sheehan to be arrested tomorrow
From: Peace
Date: 11 Aug 05 - 01:27 AM

News as of an hour ago.

Subject: RE: BS: Cindy Sheehan to be arrested tomorrow
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Aug 05 - 12:56 AM

I'd choose neither. Remember, it's a volunteer army AND we have already had conscientious objectors both refuse to report for Iraq duty, refuse to return after leaves, and go to Canada.

At the end of the day, every man or woman in the US military ALWAYS has a choice not to kill or be killed in war.