BBC GMR Axes Community Programmes!

Subject: RE: BBC GMR Axes Community Programmes!
From: Alio
Date: 02 Mar 06 - 01:03 PM

.....and now back to my problems please!!!! Enough of football!!

Subject: RE: BBC GMR Axes Community Programmes!
From: Rasener
Date: 02 Mar 06 - 12:59 PM

I think the referee was bribed by Man City :-)

Subject: RE: BBC GMR Axes Community Programmes!
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 02 Mar 06 - 12:06 PM

A goal in the 94th minute of a 93 minute match was a bit close but maybe not for City.

Subject: RE: BBC GMR Axes Community Programmes!
From: Rasener
Date: 01 Mar 06 - 05:48 PM

Well as long as Man City don't beat Aston Villa, I will still support you all :-)

Subject: RE: BBC GMR Axes Community Programmes!
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 01 Mar 06 - 05:20 PM

Bernard,

You have said it all. Not much can replace Sounds of Folk in terms of quality and value for money. Maybe City beating Ch or Man U again, but that won't happen every week.

S of F is growing can't we ask for a bit longer to show what is possible?

Subject: RE: BBC GMR Axes Community Programmes!
From: Rasener
Date: 01 Mar 06 - 03:06 PM

Refresh

Subject: RE: BBC GMR Axes Community Programmes!
From: Bernard
Date: 28 Feb 06 - 04:44 PM

I wouldn't have thought 'Sounds of Folk' was a particularly expensive programme to produce... after all, our studio guests don't get paid, and we don't have that many telephone guests (the Beeb foots the bill for the call only).

There aren't any research costs involved, unlike some of the 'chat' programmes that have a team of researchers keeping tabs on things - Allan's programme, for example.

Admittedly we include between seven and ten CD tracks (or live performances) per programme, but some of them are either 'White Label' or not registered for PRS - which still have to be logged after the show. We do have to log live performances, so PRS royalties rules still apply.

Although Ali is paid a flat rate as a freelance presenter, Jenny and I are both volunteers - so replacing me with a BBC producer actually costs more!

We occasionally pre-record items for the programme, which isn't always done in the studio. For example, we pre-recorded an interview with Dervish at the Burnley Mechanics Institute a few weeks ago. It was recorded and transferred to CD for broadcasting using my own equipment, and so cost the Beeb nothing!!

It will probably be another two weeks before we eventually learn the fate of the programme...

Subject: RE: BBC GMR Axes Community Programmes!
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 28 Feb 06 - 02:29 PM

The point is about costs and value for money. Sunday on GMR has Jimmy and Eamon, the fat lads from 9 till 11. A phone in with records followed by Fred Fielder, a pi with rs, a programme so naff it sounds like a spoof. This is followed by another record session of music from the 40s and 50's. This takes us to around 3 unless football is on.

Sounds like folk is clearly more expensive but much better value for money.

I guess we will have to settle for live music?

Subject: RE: BBC GMR Axes Community Programmes!
From: Rasener
Date: 28 Feb 06 - 01:59 PM

These are the things that the powers that be need to take on board.

Keep on tracking and putting it in here Ali.

Subject: RE: BBC GMR Axes Community Programmes!
From: Alio
Date: 28 Feb 06 - 01:50 PM

Going on from the earlier discussions about being a resource for the community, last night we covered an obituary of the folk world, we responded to a request to give out information on 3 fundraisers for the Jenny Pope appeal (the missing Tameside nurse), and asked for help for a folkie from the Todmorden area who has sight problems, so would like help with transport to get to gigs etc..

When we and others go, who's going to do these?

Ali

Subject: RE: BBC GMR Axes Community Programmes!
From: Rasener
Date: 27 Feb 06 - 03:36 PM

Best way Ali

Subject: RE: BBC GMR Axes Community Programmes!
From: Alio
Date: 27 Feb 06 - 01:57 PM

A few years ago we were asked to write in to Mike Shaft at GMR, stressing the need for a folk programme.

I was one of the many who emailed Mike, amd he invited me in as he presumed that because of my connections with Saddleworth Folk Festival, that I would know something about the subject.

After we'd chatted for a while he offered me the job...and the rest is history of course!!

So yes, it was brought back by popular demand - but not particularly as a replacement I suppose. I didn't know enough about Mike's way of presenting, so I decided on my own style and content.

Ali

Subject: RE: BBC GMR Axes Community Programmes!
From: Rasener
Date: 27 Feb 06 - 06:16 AM

Mark
I luuuuuuuuuv Liver - your on :-)
Les

Subject: RE: BBC GMR Axes Community Programmes!
From: GUEST,Mark Dowding (at work)
Date: 27 Feb 06 - 05:53 AM

Les - You know that and I know that - if we ran the station we'd have a bit of everything and hopefully please most of the listeners somewhere through the week (wasn't that what GMR was like a couple of weeks ago??)
To continue the analogy - I could do Liver, Sausage and Bacon in a rather tasty gravy - you can have the liver and I'll have the sausage and bacon - best of both worlds!

Cheers
Mark (who's now feeling rather hungry)

Subject: RE: BBC GMR Axes Community Programmes!
From: Rasener
Date: 27 Feb 06 - 05:24 AM

Mark

It shouldn't be about wether somebody likes liver or not.

BBC local radio is about supporting the local community and to have somebody who is biased, then they shouldn't be in that job.

Les

Subject: RE: BBC GMR Axes Community Programmes!
From: GUEST,Mark Dowding (at work)
Date: 27 Feb 06 - 05:07 AM

I think a lot depends on the whims and tastes of who's in charge of the station at various times. If you've got a manager that likes folk music then chances are you'll get a folk music programme if you shout loud enough. I think it was years between Mike Billington's prog and Ali's prog - long enough for a change of personnel at the top of the tree. As an analogy - if you like liver and come to my house for tea you won't get liver no matter how many letters and emails you send me!

Have a listen tonight anyway - Ali's got a guest on flogging his new CD - Mark erm something or other....

Cheers
Mark

Subject: RE: BBC GMR Axes Community Programmes!
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Feb 06 - 04:40 AM

I have emailed GMR. Can anyone refresh my memory on the sequence of events between Mike Billington's show and 'Sounds of Folk'? Wasn't Mike's show on GMR until it was dropped. Was Ali's show not then brought on to replace it (eventualy!) 'by popular demand'? If so can it not be pointed out this excercise has failed before?

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BBC GMR Axes Community Programmes!
From: Rasener
Date: 27 Feb 06 - 02:19 AM

Thats exactly the sort of thing Bernard. Instead of having a go at BBC its more about how much they need the Folk World.

Subject: RE: BBC GMR Axes Community Programmes!
From: Bernard
Date: 26 Feb 06 - 07:47 PM

Sorry, Les, been out to the Open Door folk club...!

Yes, I remember that excellent 'Yellowbellies' CD - we played some tracks from it!

I do understand where you're coming from... maybe we should dig deep and see what we can find. There have been many occasions where we have publicised charity events, and we're involved with a particularly tricky one now - Jenny Pope, who disappeared in Ecuador a few short weeks ago... her husband and family have produced a fundraiser CD, which we played a track from last week. They wrote and recorded the songs which are on the CD.

Alio will be able to explain it better... but this is the sort of stuff we should be able to handle, instead of being watered down into 'mainstream' airtime.

We're in the studio as usual tonight (Monday), and will keep you posted of any developments.

Subject: RE: BBC GMR Axes Community Programmes!
From: Rasener
Date: 26 Feb 06 - 04:09 PM

I dont think anybody weould expect you 2 to make waves, that wouldn't be a smart move.

Do any of the folkclubs donate to charities run by GMR?

The reason I ask this, is that if you remember I did the Yellowbellies CD with Tom Lane and all the artists donated for nowt.
Who got this money - Radio Lincolnshire for their Gold Appeal - well over £1000.
Lincolnshire Folk Have also donated in different ways to Radio Lincolnshire Gold Appeal.
I am pretty sure other folk clubs and performers have in one way or another donated to this excellent appeal.
With that in mind, I think we should get a better deal, and maybe even more money can be donated to this appeal, by getting a better deal.

There must be ways that we can show them that the folk world is caring and do a lot for the community that should be reflected in local radio.

Look at the folk festivals - they must bring an awful lot of extra indirect and direct money to the communities of those areas where they are held.

There must be lots of examples where the folk scene across the country have contributed to the community.

Maybe everybody should be posting on here what they have done for the benefit of the community and especially local BBC Radio.

Subject: RE: BBC GMR Axes Community Programmes!
From: Bernard
Date: 26 Feb 06 - 03:54 PM

Predominantly middle aged to pensioners, Les. Thanks for your excellent advice.

Some people (myself included) listen to GMR in the car at various times during the day, but the many retired listeners tune in throughout the day and well into the evening.

Apparently the 'Drive Time' slot attracts an audience of 50,000, but our slot only 20,000. But then, people are driving home in their cars during 'Drive Time'... I think there's a clue in the name...!!

Once they are home, the telly is switched on, because most people get out of the car when they arrive home... hence the drop in audience... or am I missing something obvious?!!

Now GMR is available on DAB and online, perhaps there is a slight shift - but I would guess it's only 'ex-pat Mancs' who would access GMR that way?

Thanks for your support!

It sounds like Lincolnshire has already done what is about to happen to GMR... Radio Derbyshire, Lancashire, Merseyside and Shropshire could well be next in line for the chop if we don't do something.

Alio and I are in no position to 'make waves' ourselves, as nothing has yet been officially announced. It's very disconcerting...

Subject: RE: BBC GMR Axes Community Programmes!
From: Rasener
Date: 26 Feb 06 - 03:02 PM

What age group listens to Radio GMR Alio?

I think Radio Lincolnshire attracts middle age upwards which is a bit like Radio 2 but more local and it serves the local community.

If radio GMR is similar, then the only way they can go is more like Radio One. Then they will lose a lot of peoeple.

I have to say that I like Radio One and I am 60. Got into it becuase my children who are young want to listen to it in the car. I now think it is great and funny.

However I do appreciate that a lot of poeple feel different about that.

So I feel there is a place for local radio to support the local community, and that means Folk Music in whatever form it takes.

Radio Derbyshire has an excellent 2 hour folk programme run by Mick Peat and Lester Simpson. I think thats what every region should have. It gives time for presenters to deliver a wide variety of folk music and support the local Folk Scene.

Unfortunately, Radio Lincolnshire slaps it on to the end of Drive Time at 6:35pm for 25 minutes and quite honestly does not give Tom Lane & Mark Addison enough time to deal with Folk Music in Lincolnshire which is very strong.

I have to say that it is not just about GMR, its about the whole country and we should all be lobbying BBC in London as a Folk Music group.
If everybody who is a folkie complains to one point, surely there is a bigger chance of saving local radio across the country.

This can be done by

Going to the BBC website www.bbc.co.uk/complaints and filling in the complaints form

or phoning 08700 100 222 and registering your complaint verbally which is what I have just done.

or writing to

Complaints Department
BBC
London W1 1aa

or BBC Complaints,
PO Box 1922,
Glasgow G2 3WT


I have also complained to Radio GMR

I will also complain to Radio Lincolnshire about not enough time on their station.

I basically complained that we are not getting enough folk music on local radio which is for the community and its not good enough. Plus a lot more of course about the cutting exercises that are going on which are just not acceptable. I used Radio Folkwaves as a very good example who have 2 hours of folk music. Whereas Lincs only has 25 mins and GMR was under threat.

So hit the top and local sites if we are going to get anywhere.

Subject: RE: BBC GMR Axes Community Programmes!
From: Bernard
Date: 26 Feb 06 - 02:03 PM

To me, the most sinister aspect of this is the fact they will no longer be referring to GMR a 'local' station - it is to be known as a 'regional' station.

Semantics, maybe... but it may be a way of wriggling out of obligations, methinks.

Perhaps 'mainstreaming' is a polite way of saying 'dumbing down'?

Clogger... telling them why you are ringing in is almost certainly why you didn't get air time. Don't forget, the person you speak to on the telephone is likely to be the programme's producer (or the person sitting next to them in the Ops Room!), and they will be reluctant to discuss something that hasn't been officially announced...

Subject: RE: BBC GMR Axes Community Programmes!
From: Alio
Date: 26 Feb 06 - 01:33 PM

The chat shows won't cost anything except for a presenter and some in the background - much cheaper than any of the light entertainment ones I suspect, if you take PRS into account.
John will argue that it's not a cost-cutting exercise, but an attempt to mainstream the station.
For me, that's a huge shame, as at present the programmes do reflect the diversity of the Greater Manchester area.
Ali

Subject: RE: BBC GMR Axes Community Programmes!
From: GUEST,clogger
Date: 26 Feb 06 - 10:01 AM

As I posted earlier, I have tried to get on the programme before but time (being charitable) was against me and they did not call me back.
It may be more fruitfull if "they" are called early in the programme, and if there is more than one caller! I was honest with them about the topic I wished to talk about! Work permitting I will call on Tuesday, so come on all you folkies ..... giv'em a call.
Just as an after thaught, what are the relative costs of different types of Radio programme? Surely the cost of royalties can't be that much? Or do we have to go down the line of pure "trad"?

Subject: RE: BBC GMR Axes Community Programmes!
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 26 Feb 06 - 04:19 AM

If it's too late then it is a damn shame and not a little short sighted. Bernard Wriggley's comment says a lot. I would have thought that BBC Radio 4 was a better model to aspire to. Lots of quality and always the chance of something a bit odd.

GMR is pretty dreadful saved only by Sounds of Folk, the glorious Beswick, a few community based progs and the totally nuetral footy coverage.

Subject: RE: BBC GMR Axes Community Programmes!
From: Rasener
Date: 26 Feb 06 - 03:05 AM

Thanks Bernard. Points taken on board.
Thats why I need to have listen first to understand how he operates. :-)
Les

Subject: RE: BBC GMR Axes Community Programmes!
From: Bernard
Date: 25 Feb 06 - 08:08 PM

Beware, Les - Allan is very quick-thinking (this is not meant as an insult to you, lad!), and he specialises in being Devil's Advocate...

Hopefully, his close alliance with Bernard Wrigley (they do the occasional gigs together) may be of an advantage, as Bernard has already written to JR (spooky!!) expressing his dismay.

I quote:

BEWARE! If GMR becomes an imitation of Shit FM there'll be no going
back. You won't get the independent listeners and you'll lose all the
respect you currently have for the unique progs you broadcast
(Parlour, Folk, etc).

To which JR replied...

Whilst I reserve the right to review our whole schedule, be assured that I understand fully my public service obligation as the man in charge of GMR.

I have no ambition to ape commercial radio - but recognise the need of successful radio stations to adapt their programming from time to time to reflect the changing needs of their audiences.

It is worth noting that JR came to the BBC via commercial radio... or so I am led to believe.

I'm sorry to say that I believe all this to be a 'done deal' - no amount of complaining will make any difference. I also believe that JR is only the person appointed to oversee the changes - which have been decided at a higher level, and some months, even years ago.

I must stress this is only my opinion, and not based on fact. Make of it what you will.

Subject: RE: BBC GMR Axes Community Programmes!
From: Rasener
Date: 25 Feb 06 - 03:15 PM

Okey dokey.

I will have to listen to his show first, and make sure I know what I am dealing with. :-)

Watch this space.

Subject: RE: BBC GMR Axes Community Programmes!
From: Alio
Date: 25 Feb 06 - 02:21 PM

To go on a show you call 0161 228 2255; to call the general enquiries number it's 0161 200 2000.

Good luck Les! Folk music lovers and artists from across the country have been writing in to him.

Ali

Subject: RE: BBC GMR Axes Community Programmes!
From: Rasener
Date: 25 Feb 06 - 03:59 AM

I dont mind ringing him.

details please

Les Worrall
Market Rasen Folk Club

Subject: RE: BBC GMR Axes Community Programmes!
From: Alio
Date: 25 Feb 06 - 03:45 AM

I've just heard that the boss has gone on leave now for a couple of weeks!!

Subject: RE: BBC GMR Axes Community Programmes!
From: GUEST,clogger
Date: 23 Feb 06 - 05:27 PM

Or the day after!!!

Subject: RE: BBC GMR Axes Community Programmes!
From: GUEST,Clogger
Date: 22 Feb 06 - 12:06 PM

I did try to get on today (waited over 1 hour) but obviously time was too short/ there were too many other topics to talk about.
Still there is always tomorrow......
I suspect that there are a lot of people in the industry who support us, but we do not tend to do ourselves justice in that we are to a large extent silent!.....(eccept when singing)
The nice lady on the phone did offer to give me an address to write to but I assumed that that track would be less effective, and more easily ignored!
If at first you dont........

Subject: RE: BBC GMR Axes Community Programmes!
From: Alio
Date: 22 Feb 06 - 05:41 AM

I'd be very surprised if Mike Shaft approves these decisions either. He kind of manages the music shows for the station, and has been involved in Manchester (Piccadilly and Key 103) radio on the music side for many years.

Ali

Subject: RE: BBC GMR Axes Community Programmes!
From: GUEST,Mark Dowding (at work)
Date: 22 Feb 06 - 04:24 AM

Allan Beswick's on our side - he used to do a bit in the folk clubs in the 70's.

Cheers
MArk

Subject: RE: BBC GMR Axes Community Programmes!
From: GUEST,clogger
Date: 22 Feb 06 - 03:06 AM

Me too!!!!
but hey it could be worth it ;¬}

Subject: RE: BBC GMR Axes Community Programmes!
From: Alio
Date: 21 Feb 06 - 02:48 PM

Do you fancy doing that Clogger? It's a brill idea, but he scares the hell out of me!!
Ali

Subject: RE: BBC GMR Axes Community Programmes!
From: GUEST,Clogger
Date: 21 Feb 06 - 01:22 PM

I may be out of line here but...........
Why not phone in to GMR live on the morning slot of Alan Beswick?
This may serve to hilight the (potential) problem. Alan will field questions about virtualy anything and it would be interesting to hear a "phone in" as they generate more publicity than E-Mail shots.
Anyway the results should be of interest!

Subject: RE: BBC GMR Axes Community Programmes!
From: Raggytash
Date: 21 Feb 06 - 01:00 PM

You live in Lancashire then Moorley Man

Subject: RE: BBC GMR Axes Community Programmes!
From: MoorleyMan
Date: 21 Feb 06 - 10:23 AM

BBC4 Viewer is fortunate - our part of God's Own County can't even receive digital TV cos funding for the transmitter was withdrawn.

Subject: RE: BBC GMR Axes Community Programmes!
From: GUEST,BBC4 viewer
Date: 21 Feb 06 - 08:04 AM

sooner a national 24 hour digital radio channel is devoted to folk the better !

Subject: RE: BBC GMR Axes Community Programmes!
From: HipflaskAndy
Date: 21 Feb 06 - 06:15 AM

Hi Ali,
having played 'live' on the show last night with m'fiddle player Anne (we had a great evening, thanks!) I was very shocked to hear of the shadow of doubt cast over the future of 'Sounds of Folk' on GMR.

Your programme is a wonderful beacon for our genre of music in that region and it would be catastrophic should it disappear (as was sadly the case over here in Yorkshire/Humberside not so long ago when dear Henry Ayrton's Folk programme was axed).

I sincerely hope the programme gets a stay of execution and continues from strength to strength.
Yours - Duncan McFarlane

Subject: RE: BBC GMR Axes Community Programmes!
From: Alio
Date: 21 Feb 06 - 03:40 AM

I spoke to the boss last night, to be told that they still haven't finalised the schedule! I may not know until March 13th / 20th, and as the new changes take effect from the beginning of April, effectively that means that any complaints or appeals will be dismissed through lack of time!!

Ali

Subject: RE: BBC GMR Axes Community Programmes!
From: Alio
Date: 20 Feb 06 - 07:38 AM

I've tried to remain professional and stay out for this thread.

However, I'm getting so many queries - from listeners, folkies, artists and agents - that I'm going to see if I can get an answer this evening from John Ryan.

If possible, I'll let you all know!!

Ali

Subject: RE: BBC GMR Axes Community Programmes!
From: Alio
Date: 19 Feb 06 - 07:46 AM

Theresa,

I've only just realised that you've signed in as Treaties from OZ!!! I hope it's warmer there than it is here?

Thanks for joining this thread - will you be at Kidderminster next weekend with us?

Ali

Subject: RE: BBC GMR AXES COMMUNITY PROGRAMMES!
From: John J
Date: 18 Feb 06 - 06:54 AM

freresh

Subject: RE: BBC GMR AXES COMMUNITY PROGRAMMES!
From: GUEST,Mark Dowding (at work)
Date: 17 Feb 06 - 06:04 AM

David Jackson's Music Department Details

Email: [e-mail]
Telephone: [phone]
Fax: [phone]
Address: Room E4113 Broadcasting House, BBC Wales, Llandaff, Cardiff, CF5 2YQ.

Cheers
Mark

Subject: RE: BBC GMR AXES COMMUNITY PROGRAMMES!
From: sian, west wales
Date: 17 Feb 06 - 05:47 AM

The snail mail would be

Broadcasting House
BBC
Llandaf
Cardiff
CF5 2YQ

I don't have an email but the BBC is formulaic (supposedly): first name - dot - last name @bbc.co.uk so it SHOULD be [e-mail] Having said that, I'd be surprised if there wasn't some other David Jackson in the Beeb somewhere. You can but try. I tend to do snail mail as I can do things like this on company letterhead which tends to be taken more seriously than email.

siân

Subject: RE: BBC GMR AXES COMMUNITY PROGRAMMES!
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 17 Feb 06 - 05:27 AM

Sian do you have an address or better still email for David Jackson