BS: The short way to kill threads...

Subject: RE: BS: The short way to kill threads...
From: Iains
Date: 06 May 18 - 07:35 AM

Your imagination is running away with you.

Subject: RE: BS: The short way to kill threads...
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 06 May 18 - 07:08 AM

Isn't one of that pair still posting, under a different persona? Or have I misread the signs?h

Subject: RE: BS: The short way to kill threads...
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 May 18 - 06:42 AM

"THey call him racist and homophobic, and stuff like that"
I'm not sure that was true Al - I certainly never did
My problem with him was his persistent bullying and contemptuous attitude to other contributors
If he was banned from posting below the libe (I hadn't realised that), it certainly wasn't for his politics; there are others that share his views - plus - still around
I don't think anybody should be barred for their political views (the greater variety the more chance of a lively and informative discussion as far as I'm concerned)
Openly displayed hate politics and contempt for other posters are different matters altogether.
I believe that this forum, on both sides of the line have dipped out badly by having no Asian or African members - were I from a Muslim background I would not come a million miles near this forum remembering some of the horrendous attacks that have been allowed to take place here (sometimes it's bad enough coming from an Irish background)
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: The short way to kill threads...
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 May 18 - 04:23 AM

Ake and Teribus have been banned from posting below the line, Al. That says it all really. It should happen to some others too. In my opinion.

Subject: RE: BS: The short way to kill threads...
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 06 May 18 - 04:07 AM

It always makes me uncomfortable the way people do a pre-emptive poke at Ake.

THey call him racist and homophobic, and stuff like that.
I know some will profoundly disagree with me, but I wonder if anyone else feels disquieted.

Subject: RE: BS: The short way to kill threads...
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 May 18 - 03:53 AM

I wave my private parts at your aunty!

Subject: RE: BS: The short way to kill threads...
From: Senoufou
Date: 06 May 18 - 03:51 AM

"Ni! Ni!"

Subject: RE: BS: The short way to kill threads...
From: Will Fly
Date: 06 May 18 - 03:48 AM

Ooh, I don't know... an occasional sharp tap on the testicles can be very satisfying. :-)

As John Cleese famously said from the castle battlements, "I fart in your general direction!"

Subject: RE: BS: The short way to kill threads...
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 06 May 18 - 03:25 AM

My policy too - read and scroll on by - but, unfortunately, I occasionally 'fall off the wagon'.

Note to Self: Ignore the hoops, ignore the traps, ignore the bare-faced lies, ignore the wilful provocation....

Subject: RE: BS: The short way to kill threads...
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 May 18 - 03:05 AM

Stop responding to the person who deserves abuse in your view.

Funnily enough, I have! As have a number of others. It does not stop them warranting abuse but, as they seem to thrive on attention, it does seem to have slowed them down a little as well. Sadly they are still getting attention from others. I must say I derive a, possibly perverse, satisfaction from watching them trying and failing to goad people into responding:-)

Subject: RE: BS: The short way to kill threads...
From: Kenny B (inactive)
Date: 05 May 18 - 06:55 PM

Kevin .... I'm in full agreement some folks have mastered the art some sadly havent

Senofgou
"Hee hee, we're going the right way about killing this thread aren't we?"

I hate to disagree but I don't think so, the introduction of a little humour lightens the proceedings and gives a little time to reflect? the question mark was optional

Subject: RE: BS: The short way to kill threads...
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 05 May 18 - 06:03 PM

they deserve any abuse they get

"Use every man according to his deserts, and who shall 'scape whipping"

It doesn't matter if people deserve to be abused. The abuse doesn’t actually damage them, anyway, it damages the Mudcat. Let it go. Stop responding to the person who deserves abuse in your view. Blank them for good, maybe, but don't muddy the water for everyone.

There may be occasions for exceptions, but very few, and not many people have the inbuilt acumen to do it right. The late lamented Castspaw was the only person I can remember who could manage it right.

Subject: RE: BS: The short way to kill threads...
From: Senoufou
Date: 05 May 18 - 04:55 PM

Hee hee, we're going the right way about killing this thread aren't we?

Subject: RE: BS: The short way to kill threads...
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 May 18 - 04:49 PM

Or the insulting version.

What ain't we got?
We ain't got brains!

:-D tG

Subject: RE: BS: The short way to kill threads...
From: beardedbruce
Date: 05 May 18 - 04:44 PM

We've got sunlight on the sand
We've got moonlight on the sea
We've got mangoes and bananas we can pick right off a tree
We've got volleyball and ping-pong and a lot of dandy games
What ain't we got?
We ain't got dames!

We get packages from home
We get movies, we get shows
We get speeches from our skipper
And advice from Tokyo Rose
We get letters doused with perfume,
We get dizzy from the smell
What don't we get?
You know damn well

We've got nothing to put on a clean white suit for
What we need is what there ain't no substitute for

There is nothing like a dame
Nothing in the world
There is nothing you can name
That is anything like a dame

We feel restless, we feel blue
We feel lonely and in brief
We feel every kind of feeling
But the feeling of relief
We feel hungry as the wolf felt when he met Red Riding Hood
What don't we feel?
We don't feel good

Lots of things in life are beautiful but, brother
There is one particular thing that is nothing whatsoever
In any way, shape, or form like any other

There is nothing like a dame
Nothing in the world
There is nothing you can name
That is anything like a dame

Nothing else is built the same
Nothing in the world...
Has a soft and wavy frame
Like the silhouette of a dame
There is absolutely nothing like the frame
Of a dame

[Whistling]

So supposed a dame ain't bright
Or completely free from flaws
Or as faithful as a bird-dog
Or as kind as Santa Claus
It's a waste of time to worry over things that they have not
Be thankful for
The things they've got

There is nothing you can name
That is anything like a dame

There are no books like a dame
And nothing looks like a dame
There are no drinks like a dame
And nothing thinks like a dame
Nothing acts like a dame
Or attracts like a dame
There ain't a thing that's wrong with any man here
That can't be cured by putting him near
A girly, womanly, female, feminine dame

Subject: RE: BS: The short way to kill threads...
From: Senoufou
Date: 05 May 18 - 04:40 PM

I'll settle for 'Dame' Bruce. "Dames in white satin" doesn't have quite the same cachet though does it?

Subject: RE: BS: The short way to kill threads...
From: beardedbruce
Date: 05 May 18 - 04:26 PM

I think the term is Dame. Or Chevaleresse (alternatively, chevalière.?)

Subject: RE: BS: The short way to kill threads...
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 May 18 - 04:21 PM

I led a sheltered life. Bus shelters. Roadside shelters. Any shelter I could find...

Subject: RE: BS: The short way to kill threads...
From: Senoufou
Date: 05 May 18 - 04:11 PM

Oooh can I be a Knight of the Keyboard? I'd look nice in white satin.... :)

Subject: RE: BS: The short way to kill threads...
From: Kenny B (inactive)
Date: 05 May 18 - 03:42 PM

Ive trawled the internet and cant get a Samurai keyboard anywhere.
I just had a thought , I could establish an new order "Knights of the Keyboard" and I wouldnt necessarily preclude daytime members

Subject: RE: BS: The short way to kill threads...
From: Senoufou
Date: 05 May 18 - 03:32 PM

I like the term 'keyboard warriors' - it conjures up an image of someone with gritted teeth and a fierce frown bashing away on their keyboard, frothing at the mouth and shouting.
If I privately thought someone was 'talking bollocks', I wouldn't express it in that way. Id probably say instead, "I find that rather preposterous" or, "I disagree most strongly."
But then I'm quite ancient and have never used (or even heard) expressions such as 'talking bollocks'. Must have led a very sheltered life!

Subject: RE: BS: The short way to kill threads...
From: Kenny B (inactive)
Date: 05 May 18 - 03:17 PM

My apologies to anyone interested, this closed thread appears to be unavailable on the link ..... I got it by searching for "keyboard warriors" in the Forum

---

link fixed by Joe (click)

Subject: RE: BS: The short way to kill threads...
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 May 18 - 02:59 PM

No, sorry Sen, I understand what you are on about but there are times when butter wouldn't melt in their mouth people get so dishonestly offensive that they deserve any abuse they get. If I was to say to you that you were talking bollocks then it may be insulting or offensive but, to my mind, far more honest than the sneaky way others may ever so politely insult your intelligence. In my opinion of course! And not that you would ever talk bollocks either (except in your political preference of course) :-)

Subject: RE: BS: The short way to kill threads...
From: Kenny B (inactive)
Date: 05 May 18 - 02:57 PM

I liked Senoufous descriptive term "Keyboard Warriors"'
when rereading "No Go" subjects on Mudcat?

Subject: RE: BS: The short way to kill threads...
From: Joe Offer
Date: 05 May 18 - 02:27 PM

I usually agree with PFR....that's why I'm a rubbish mod.

I did honor one request recently from somebody who posted something and then regretted it. That doesn't happen very often. The poster seemed sincere and honest, so I honored the request and deleted the post. I also deleted a couple responses to the post, and notified the posters that I had done so. I think PFR was one of the people whose post I deleted, and I'm quite sure I notified PFR.

Like I said above, I probably will never understand why people take things said in this forum so seriously. I occasionally have people get all legalistic on me, when I can't see what all the hullabaloo is about. The moment somebody threatens to hire a lawyer on a Mudcat matter, I drop it all and pass it on to Max - he's the owner and the one liable. I'd say I get a lawyer threat about twice a year.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: The short way to kill threads...
From: Senoufou
Date: 05 May 18 - 02:03 PM

I find what upsets me most is when people make personal remarks, insulting another poster and calling them names, casting aspersions on their integrity and so on. It can get aggressive and nasty.
I don't mind people defending their viewpoint vigorously, but there surely is never any need to trade insults on a personal level. It doesn't add anything to the discussion, merely derails it.

Subject: RE: BS: The short way to kill threads...
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 05 May 18 - 12:54 PM

I don't agree - i think the only deletions should be on grounds that the words contravene hate speech laws
to the extent they might put mudcat in jeopardy
for publishing them..
All else should remain up on the board to damn the offensive poster for eternity...

But that's why I'd be a rubbish mod...

I also think admin should not indulge posters who who make 'offensive' attacks,
keep them up long enough to be read by the intended mudcatters;
then go crawling to mods bleating that they regret posting 'out of character', requesting that their own offending post be deleted.

After the deletion, said sly mudcaters can continue as if they never did anything wrong when they later plead innocence
of ever posting any malicious comments...

Subject: RE: BS: The short way to kill threads...
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 05 May 18 - 12:39 PM

Joe, I know I am a couple of days late but with regards to deletions, I think I would draw the line with:

(1) Anything libellous and slanderous.
(2) Posts that are offensive towards sections of society -ie racist, sexist, homophobic, etc. generalisations.
(3) Gratuitous use of foul language.
(4) Personalised offensive language directed at people on the basis of their gender, race, sexual orientation, disabillity, age, etc.

Subject: RE: BS: The short way to kill threads...
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 05 May 18 - 12:31 PM

When you post some idea, and it is misinterpreted in ways never intended, that can be quite useful. It can teach you to be more careful in how you state that idea, so that you can stop that happening.

As for offending people, you can use that as a guide to finding ways of stating that idea in ways that try to avoid offending people. Where the idea in itself is causing the offence, it's going to happen - but often it's more the way the idea is phrased that sets off the reaction, and sometimes it's a case of the kind of misinterpretation I mentioned in the last paragraph.

Flame wars are a menace, but you never need to join in them, or respond in kind if you get flamed.

Subject: RE: BS: The short way to kill threads...
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 05 May 18 - 12:21 PM

I think one of the problems is that compared with fans of other so-called music genre - by that I am referring to those for whom contestants on the latest pop talent show are the be all and end all of everything that matters in the world - us folkies are very politically and socially aware, and hold strong views according to our own perspectives. However, I do find it hard to understand how those who are drawn to folk music can be anything else but socialist - but that would be another thread.

In a way, it is a pity that the thread in question was closed as, but for the thread drift, it was asking some important questions.

I do see that threads do drift, and run into the danger of a one-to-one personalised exchange. I personally do not have problems between the banter between regular contributors, as long as it does not descend to personal abuse.

We should be self-moderating - perhaps a few techniques.

(1) Responses to comments criticising policy - can either agree or disagree, if disagree make a clear statement of why. Just stating that the other side were just as bad in the past does not contribute towards moving the debate forward.
(2) Be open where we are coming from, and accept that those who are equally open have the right to their views.
(3) Be encouraging to contibutions to debate from those other than the main protagonists, and respond without belittling. By all means, point out fallacies, but in a civil manner.
(4) If discussion is going off in a narrow tangent, bring the OP point back into the discussion, maybe with another avenue for discussion.
(5) For extended one-to-one 'battles', consider whether these contribute something of interest to other readers, or whether this should be a one-to-one exchange of personal messages.
(6)Avoid trying to out-intectualise other contibutors, it may feel good to score points, but it could very easily bore other readers. If cross referring, consider explaining what you are cross referring to.
(7) Avoid offensiveness in posts - not just towards Mudcat members, but to people in society. Criticise for what one does (and cite evidence) as oppose who one is, to avoid being mirrored.
(8) When cooments do get offenseive, be prpared to say 'whatever', and move the discussion to something more interesting.

Subject: RE: BS: The short way to kill threads...
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 May 18 - 08:27 AM

"Sounds like the area in front of the butcher's counter in Tesco's! "
Not what I had in mind!!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: The short way to kill threads...
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 May 18 - 08:12 AM

Kevin, your posting is, as ever, considered and thought provoking. I do challenge a couple of points though.

While I agree to a certain extent about your pub analogy dismissal I would like to point out that, in other ways, the analogy is sound. It is where people from all walks of life meet. Of those people some are your friends who you will gravitate towards, some are acquaintances who you will pass the time of day with and some are just not your kind; those you avoid if possible. If too many of these latter types take over, you will stop coming. Which is where the moderators come in. They are the management who will step in with friendly advice or, where required, break up a fight and lay down the law.

The second thing is that it is OK to use Mudcat as a sounding board but, as we see all too often, an idea is posted, only to

A) have it interpreted in ways that were never intended
B) offend someone who then takes the buff or
C) start a flame war amongst a handful of people who then take over the thread.

Not sure how these things can be addressed but maybe a limit on thread length or the number of postings one person can make to that thread would help. What do you think? Joe, is that something Max could do?

Subject: RE: BS: The short way to kill threads...
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 May 18 - 07:49 AM

Can you have a meetspace on meatspace?

Doug, there are a couple I would instinctively avoid but I suspect that it we were to meet our respective bogey men in real life we may be pleasantly surprised.

Subject: RE: BS: The short way to kill threads...
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 05 May 18 - 07:44 AM

I use Mudcat for practice. In general, I feel I'm among friends here and in a place where I can say what I want to say, testing my arguments to see how they will work in a more public forum. Here is where I experiment with my thinking on matters, to see if my approach is workable.

Precisely so, Joe. And that's why it matters. It's not about changing the minds of the people we get into arguments or discussions, it about effecting our own ideas and how we express them and develop them. There aren’t too many opportunities to do that in the offline world, not in the same way.

It's been compared to talking in a pub, but I don't really think that's quite right. More often than not in pubs, even if there's much talk (which isn't the case a lot of the time), it tends to be about non-contentious stuff. Often enough there's even a semi- official or even official ban on talking about stuff like politics or religion. Even talk about football can be seen as too liable to cause problems.

I think too many of us spend all our Mudcat visits down below the line. Or above it. I think there's a real value in visiting both. It can be good to find someone you're at daggers drawn down below actually shares your musical tastes and views.

Subject: RE: BS: The short way to kill threads...
From: Senoufou
Date: 05 May 18 - 07:24 AM

Sounds like the area in front of the butcher's counter in Tesco's!

Subject: RE: BS: The short way to kill threads...
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 May 18 - 07:19 AM

"meatspace"
Lovely term - only ever heard it in another context - tut-tut
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: The short way to kill threads...
From: Jeri
Date: 05 May 18 - 06:39 AM

Funny how some people would avoid others in meatspace, but seem sucked into threads those folks post to here...

Subject: RE: BS: The short way to kill threads...
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 05 May 18 - 04:54 AM

I have learned over time that there are people who I really disagree with here, and have posted stuff that I deem deeply prejudicial, yet, given more proximity and a human face in front of me, I might very well share a beer with, after a minor beat-down.

There is at least one Mudcat member who, based purely on his on-line persona, I would cross the street to avoid if I came upon him in real life.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: The short way to kill threads...
From: Senoufou
Date: 05 May 18 - 04:25 AM

Ah Jim, that resonates with me.
I do so like a natter (hee hee I wonder if anybody has noticed?) and while living in a lovely, friendly village, people are out at work (like my husband) or busy, and not always ready to chat, especially during the cold winter days.
I like the intelligent level of discussion on Mudcat, on a very wide range of topics. I've learned such a lot.

I also feel very fond of many who post on here, and although it's a website, it does feel as if they are friends. I would miss it dreadfully if the BS section were removed. I'd be forced instead to go and do the ironing or wash the kitchen floor. Gah!

Subject: RE: BS: The short way to kill threads...
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 May 18 - 04:07 AM

" I think you need to reconsider. What is the purpose "
Has it a set purpose?
As far as I am concerned, it is an opportunity to exchange ides with others, to sound out your own and to learn from others
That is what all communication is about
I lived in London for thirty years - I had access to literally thousands of people, should I have wish to avail myself of them, I could, and did attend meetings and lectures, I could go to the local pub and strike up conversations with people from hundreds of different walks of life, with different interests and experiences and from different places in the world - I did so regularly.
I now live in a small rural village on the edge of the Atlantic - I can no longer do this
For me, being able to talk to people on this forum is a very limited way to replace something I lost when we moved twenty years ago.
Whatever Mudcat might be to you, that is what it is for me and I am grateful for it
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: The short way to kill threads...
From: Joe Offer
Date: 04 May 18 - 09:33 PM

I dunno, Jim. I think you need to reconsider. What is the purpose of this forum, and what effect do our posts have here?

I'm an activist in my local community, centering on the issues of incarceration, homelessness, and immigration. I'm past president and on the board of directors of a non-profit community organizing group that focuses on these issues. I attend every local public meeting that deals with these issues, and I write frequent letters to local newspapers and harass my elected representatives on a regular basis.

I use Mudcat for practice. In general, I feel I'm among friends here and in a place where I can say what I want to say, testing my arguments to see how they will work in a more public forum. Here is where I experiment with my thinking on matters, to see if my approach is workable.

This coming Tuesday, the right-wingers in my county are organizing an attempt to get the county Board of Supervisors to enact a resolution removing the county from California's "sanctuary state" law which prohibits state and local law enforcement from participating in Trump's crackdown on legal and illegal immigrants. Some California counties and municipalities have chosen to defy the state law and work to cooperate with Trump's immigration troopers.

Our county has a right-wing electorate, but the county Board of Supervisors chose not to include the anti-sanctuary proposal on this coming Tuesday's agenda. To my mind, this is a very courageous action on the part of the Board of Supervisors, but many of my colleagues don't think this is enough and want to use the Board meeting as a battleground for the immigration issue. I don't want to jeopardize what the Board has done by removing the issue from their agenda, so I find myself in opposition to many of my friends.

To me, the county board meeting is where the discussion has importance - not at Mudcat. I want a place like this to test my opinions, even if I'm wrong. And once I've tried my presentations here, I can show up at the county meeting on Tuesday and make my point in a place where it counts.

But for Mudcat to be worthwhile, it's important for us to see Mudcat for what it should be - a forum for free discussion among friends, even if sometimes people say things we don't agree with. If we are to be effective in our communities and our political bodies, we need a place like Mudcat where we can just bat ideas around, even if we're wrong sometimes.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: The short way to kill threads...
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 May 18 - 08:34 PM

" I mean, this is a discussion forum, not real life."
Sorry Joe but shame on you
In "real life" very few of us get a chance to express our opinions and if we do, nobody listens
Coming from the background I do, many of the subjects I get involved in are very much "real life" for me - I know that is the case with others here
What Mac has just written is exactly right (I wish I could agree with him on everything as I do on this)
It is an extremely middle-class attitude to suggest that sharing opinions with those who agree and disagree is unimportant - for some of us it is as essential as reading - a way of expanding your knowledge -and your ability to do so, of course
I havn't had the opportunity to organise my ideas and add to them the way I have been able to here since I left school sixty years ago
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: The short way to kill threads...
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 04 May 18 - 08:03 PM

The thing is, largely because the Mudcat is founded on a love for folk music, it does include people with a wider range of views than is the case with many online forums. We should value this. Arguing about things we care about with people who disagree with us helps us get a clearer picture of what we believe and why we believe it, and also why other people see it differently.

It can get uncomfortable and frustrating, and very often it gets downright annoying, but it's worth trying to make it work.

Subject: RE: BS: The short way to kill threads...
From: Joe Offer
Date: 04 May 18 - 07:59 PM

Yeah, I have to say that I sometimes wonder why it is that people take discussions here so seriously. I mean, this is a discussion forum, not real life. Very few decisions are made here that will affect the fate of this world. We're just talking. And if somebody gets offensive, it's still all just talk. There really is no need for anybody to be reprimanded. If somebody offends you, get back at him with clever and humorous but withering logic. If the discussion gets out of hand, a moderator will shut it down and somebody can start a new thread. It's no big deal.

I have the annoying habit of liking most of the people on this forum, even then they're a pain in the ass. We're all actually pretty good people. We care, and that's important.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: The short way to kill threads...
From: Raggytash
Date: 04 May 18 - 04:48 PM

Having thought about this for a while I have arrived at this position.

The Mudcat is a discussion forum, where hopefully, ideas can be exchanged, debated, however heatedly.

It should be a place where other peoples ideas are considered, thoughtfully, and responded to accordinly.

Although I am quite open to robust replies, we should hopefully, also retain a little decorum.

What it should not be is a place where people have to "win" or "lose"

Sadly that is what we encounter more often than not.

Just my tuppence worth.

Subject: RE: BS: The short way to kill threads...
From: robomatic
Date: 04 May 18 - 03:51 PM

I have learned over time that there are people who I really disagree with here, and have posted stuff that I deem deeply prejudicial, yet, given more proximity and a human face in front of me, I might very well share a beer with, after a minor beat-down.

What it comes down to for me in the end is does the person have a point to their argument that references items outside themselves? Can they establish a relationship to reality (or something they represent as reality)?

Also, if the abuse is at least tempered by humour or specific enough to give a frame of mind beyond mere name-calling.

Subject: RE: BS: The short way to kill threads...
From: Joe Offer
Date: 04 May 18 - 02:52 PM

I am very reluctant to delete posts. To me, once a message has been posted, the damage has already been done. It usually doesn't help to delete a post. I get a lot of requests for posts to be deleted, and it usually feels to me like the requestor is asking me to punish the offending poster. [Other mederators] delete posts more frequently, but I do not believe that they believe in deletions for the purpose of punishing offenders. Our purpose is to keep the discussions going and to protect the interests of Mudcat, not to punish any wrongdoers. I think that we moderators have far less interest in the discussions then some people may think. We just want to keep the peace, and we try various techniques to do that. Sometimes, we may actually be successful.

Joe

Subject: RE: BS: The short way to kill threads...
From: keberoxu
Date: 04 May 18 - 02:27 PM

Just noted a post lamenting about:
one member is unhappy that another member's posts have not been deleted.

you know what I do?
I think about all of MY posts, and there are a bunch,
that have not been deleted,
which I ought never to have posted to begin with.

Subject: RE: BS: The short way to kill threads...
From: Joe Offer
Date: 04 May 18 - 01:49 PM

I keep seeing this, people calling each other "trolls," and I can't figure out what it is they think makes a troll. For the most part, I think that very few of our regular participants are trolls, because I see trolls as people who intentionally disrupt discussions for the purpose of causing trouble. To many Mudcatters, it seems that the definition of "troll" is ideological - that anyone who disagrees with the dominant ideology is a troll. In other words, our conservatives are the trolls.
But I think our conservatives, misguided though they may be, post what they post because it's what they believe. And at times they may post with inordinate vehemence because they feel they are a hopeless and powerless minority. But they're really not particularly troublesome - they just post troublesome ideas.

I found it interesting to see people in posts above, trying to speculate who were the people who were responsible for killing threads. I think that usually it's not the person who posted the last message. Maybe it's about the fourth person up from the bottom, or maybe not. But probably it's not one person - it's that the entire tone of the thread has turned angry, and there's nothing that can be done to fix it.

But anyhow, I don't really think we've had serious trolls since we began requiring membership to post in the BS forum. Greg_F was a pain in the ass; but he was just trying very, very hard to be accepted by the "in crowd," even when he had no understanding of whatever was being discussed. We have people who can get ornery, but I think they truly believe in the ideas that they are posting, and they're working hard to help their side prevail.

As for moderators having particular friendships with trolls, I just don't see that - but then, I don't see all these trolls that people are talking about. I confess that I have kind of love-hate relationships with Jim Carroll and Steve Shaw. I really like both of them, but I do argue with them regularly and vehemently. So, I don't think I'm particularly biased for or against them.

I may have my disagreements with [other moderators], but I think they're pretty unbiased.

So, that's what I think.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: The short way to kill threads...
From: Jeri
Date: 04 May 18 - 10:13 AM

When people start complaining, it usually ends up being complaining about PEOPLE, at which time it becomes personal, and goes straight to hell.