BS: Chavez moves against second TV channel

Subject: RE: BS: Chavez moves against second TV chanel
From: Peace
Date: 02 Jun 07 - 08:04 PM

Dickey: You sound a bit sad that things have improved for the people of Venezuela. Or have I misunderstood?

Subject: RE: BS: Chavez moves against second TV chanel
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 02 Jun 07 - 07:43 PM

Another pastie...

Subject: RE: BS: Chavez moves against second TV chanel
From: Dickey
Date: 02 Jun 07 - 04:53 PM

Food shortages in the Workers Utopia:

A Circus But No Bread
By MARY ANASTASIA O'GRADY
May 21, 2007;

"...Here's how Chavez economics "works." As petro-dollars pour into state coffers, the government takes them to the central bank to get new bolivars printed, which are then pumped into the economy through government spending. Mr. Chavez has also been regularly increasing wages. The result is a consumption boom. Under free prices, too many bolivars chasing too few goods would produce inflation that would show up at the supermarket checkout counter. But price controls make that impossible. Instead, serious shortages are emerging.

Free prices are to an economy what microchips are to a computer. They carry information. As Austrian economist Ludwig von Mises explained in his legendary treatise 60 years ago, it is free prices that ensure that supply will meet demand. When Mr. Chávez imposed price controls, he destroyed the price mechanism.

And so it is that the Venezuelan egg is now a delicacy, the chicken an endangered species, toilet paper a luxury and meat an extravagance. White cheese, milk, tuna, sardines, sugar, corn oil, sunflower oil, carbonated drinks, beans, flour and rice are also in short supply.

The reason is simple: Producers have no incentive to bring goods to market if they are forced to sell them at unprofitable prices. Ranchers hold back their animals from slaughter, fisherman don't cast their nets, food processors don't invest in equipment and farmers don't plant. Those who do produce find it makes more sense to take their goods across the border to Colombia or to seek out unregulated (black) markets.

Importers also have little incentive to work these days even though the country needs food from abroad. Some things like wheat are not grown in Venezuela. Other products like milk, sugar and potatoes are imported to supplement local supplies. But the Chávez government has made it difficult to buy a dollar at the official exchange rate of 2,150 bolivars and if an importer has to buy dollars at the market rate of 4,000 bolivars it is impossible to make a profit under price controls. Even imports not subject to price controls can be difficult to find since import permits and licenses, as well as dollars, are hard to come by.

This is putting a crimp in more than just the food supply. According to local press reports, some 40% of the country's air fleet has been affected by delays in getting spare parts and the automotive industry's supply chain is hampered by a lack of access to dollars. Earlier this year hospitals began complaining that the servicing of medical equipment has been delayed because spare parts are not available. Hospitals are also reporting shortages of medicines for diabetics, antibiotics and hypertension drugs. Price controls on construction materials have damaged the reliability of supply.

To stock the state-owned grocery stores called Mercal, the Chavez government goes shopping abroad with dollar reserves. Of course, Mercal shelves are often bare as well. Moreover, some enterprising government employees seemed to have learned something about market economics: The Venezuelan media is reporting that Mercal supplies are turning up for sale just across the Colombian border, where market prices prevail.

Venezuelan policy makers can't be this dumb. The intention is not to feed the country but to destroy the private sector and any political power it might still have. In this environment survival independent of good relations with Mr. Chavez is nearly impossible. In the revolutionary handbook, capitalist producers and importers who buy things from the imperialists will be replaced by socialists living on cooperatives that will feed the country. The only trouble is that that effort is not going well, as Jose de Cordoba reported on the Journal's front page on Thursday. Lack of knowledge, equipment, incentives and organization have left the co-ops "mostly a bust so far."

To end the shortages all Mr. Chavez would have to do is lift the price controls. But with inflation already running above 20%, he no doubt fears the price jump that would follow. Much safer to seize RCTV and accelerate the consolidation of the military dictatorship. When the crisis comes, the chavistas will be ready.

http://daniel-venezuela.blogspot.com/2007/05/marai-anastasia-ogrady-on-venezuela.html

Subject: RE: BS: Chavez moves against second TV chanel
From: akenaton
Date: 02 Jun 07 - 03:56 AM

Paraguay to follow Chavez!!

"we have to be aware to guarantee that the forces of chaos do not sabotage the awakening."

Read this and weep you weasels...Ake

Viva Chavez...go on click!!

Subject: RE: BS: Chavez moves against second TV chanel
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 02 Jun 07 - 03:24 AM

Someone mentioned the closed-down channel advocating Chaves' assassination. And McGrath said "TV channels which actively support an armed coup against an elected government can normally expect a hard time when their licence comes up for renewal - in any country."

Has anyone cited specific passages by RCTV that advocate assassination or an armed coup ?

Subject: RE: BS: Chavez moves against second TV chanel
From: Dickey
Date: 02 Jun 07 - 12:57 AM

Day six: Rising unease slows Chávez agenda
In the past few weeks, President Hugo Chávez has hit some speed bumps in his rapid transformation of Venezuela into a socialist state, with polls showing a drop in support.
BY PHIL GUNSON AND STEVEN DUDLEY

CARACAS --
Recent street protests, polls and delays in government projects have put the normally aggressive Venezuelan President Hugo Chávez on the defensive as he tries to rapidly implement ''21st Century Socialism'' in Venezuela.

''This is part of the transitions, transitions that are sometimes tumultuous,'' Chávez said this week as university students led protests in a half-dozen Venezuelan cities over the government's decision not to renew the broadcast license of a popular television station. ``There's no revolution that isn't tumultuous.''

Calling his landslide Dec. 2 reelection the beginning of an era, Chávez -- a former army lieutenant colonel who led a failed coup in 1992 before he was elected president in 1998 -- charged into his agenda with great success.

After obtaining power to rule by decree for 18 months from a legislature that has no opposition members -- the opposition boycotted the last election -- Chávez took over the country's main telecommunications company, the electric utility in Caracas and the heavy oil production facilities formerly run by multinational corporations.

But unexpected obstacles in the last few weeks appear to have slowed the once steady march toward what Chávez has called Bolivarian Socialism -- an expansion of the state's role in the economy and significant increases in funding for social welfare programs paid from oil revenues that have made Chávez wildly popular here.
NO CHECKS ON POWER

He has won three presidential elections, but opponents say he has undermined democracy and put the nation under virtual authoritarian rule by stacking the courts and once-independent government institutions with allies...."

"COUNCILS UNDER FIRE

The president's idea for grass-roots democracy through so-called ''community councils'' also has run into trouble. Resources that normally go to local government bodies are being diverted to these organizations to ''empower'' ordinary Venezuelans. But there are complaints of widespread corruption, and some community councils have split into rival factions, with angry disputes over how the money is spent.

Intellectuals sympathetic to the regime also have criticized the councils as an idea imposed from above and whose practical application is doubtful. Social historian Margarita López Maya wrote recently that the councils' ''potential autonomy'' from the government is weak, adding that the authorities failed to submit the proposal to an adequate popular debate.

FOOD SHORTAGES

Meanwhile, issues such as violent crime, unemployment, inflation and food shortages have begun to erode the public's confidence in the authorities and possibly in the president..."

http://www.miamiherald.com/583/story/125072.html

Subject: RE: BS: Chavez moves against second TV chanel
From: Nickhere
Date: 01 Jun 07 - 07:24 PM

By way of example Lonesome EJ: "This is Socialism like Castro's Cuba is Socialism. What it is is self-coronation by a revolutionary stongman as the Savior of the People. Don't think it was what Jefferson, or even Lenin, had in mind, do you? You remember Benevolent Dictatorship don't you? Napoleon had it down..first declare liberty, equality, and fraternity, then declare your self Emperor. Otherwise, the enemies of freedom will crush your fledgling Democracy.

We hear plenty of enlightened opinions from those safely ensconced within the borders of Canada, the US, Ireland, etc. Would love to hear someone from Mainland China voice the joys of Socialist Autocrac"

You have also described Chavez as a 'despot'.

You evidently believe that Chavez and Castro are autocrats etc., and their socialist republics are the efforts of despots to grab power to themselves. It would be much 'better' if these countries embraced our western democratic model. This is of course despite decades of evidence to the contrary, that capitalism in south America has meant despotic rich elites lording it over supine populations, a position backed up by a regime of terror. this terror has often been endorsed, aided or guided by the USA (the dreadful 'School of the Americas' at Fort Benning being an example of this kind of 'intervention'). This kind of political model is based on the interests of big business, not on people. In fact the USA isn't so far behind here either. Ask the destitute homless survivors of Katrina about their experiences. The National Guard arrives down not to protect and help them, but to protect (well-insured) property from those filthy starving desperate masses. It took ages for them to get any assistance at all, and many fleeing were turned back.

Then there's America's two-tier health system - another disgrace in such a wealthy country. It is horrible to hear of hospitals actually turning people away because they lack medical insurance. At least Castro's people get free medical aid. if they don't have everything they need, you could do well to look no further than the US' petty embargo on Cuba.

It is also interesting to note Cindy Sheehan's recent comments on stepping down from the anti-war movement. She said she was sick of teh two party system, where the Democrats were only interested in her as long as she was perceived to be anti-Republican (and didn't hold the Democrats up to the same standards). She said she now knows her son literally died for nothing, killed by his country beholden to a corporate machine that feeds off war.

By contrast, under Chavez, Venezuela's poor are finally getting a look in at last. Old people are getting their pensions, money is being put into health (Chavez even has a deal with Cuba to swop Cuban medical expertise for Venezuelan oil) and hospitals, schools, etc., In short, the weaker and more vulnerable are gettinga slice of the cake which the rich had had all to themselves up to recently. Can yopu imagine the cheek of Chavez finally aksing the big earners to cough up a whole 15% in income tax after years of practically no tax at all!! Where will it all end, we wonder!! Chavez is one of the first South American leaders to acknowledge that US and Western interference in South America is bad news for the ordinary people of that continent. And for that, he is castigated by the right-wing press on a pile of spurious grounds.

And that is what has the richer Venezuelan's and big US corporations knickers in a twist - looking after poor people is not good for profit margins.

It's all very well to criticise these 'autocratic socialist regimes' but at least in Venezula the poor are getting looked after. The USA (hardly one of the world's poorest countries) could do well to take a leaf out of Venezuela's book.

Subject: RE: BS: Chavez moves against second TV chanel
From: Riginslinger
Date: 01 Jun 07 - 06:06 PM

"This was widely presented in the media as being a defence of freedom against a tyrannical regime. It led up to the September 11 coup in Chile, which brought the Pinochet regime to power and ushered in a period of vicious repression, involving torture, and the killing of thousands of people. Backing from the USA was crucial in enabling this to happen."



                     The same thing happened in the US in 1981 and we ended up with Ronald Reagan.

Subject: RE: BS: Chavez moves against second TV chanel
From: Peace
Date: 01 Jun 07 - 04:47 PM

regieme

How 'bout "regime"?

Subject: RE: BS: Chavez moves against second TV chanel
From: Peace
Date: 01 Jun 07 - 04:34 PM

I would bet the new regieme would be more friendly to some national interests and corporate interests--other than China's.

Subject: RE: BS: Chavez moves against second TV chanel
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 01 Jun 07 - 02:13 PM

Back in 1972 and 1973 in Chile, at the time of the Allende government, there was a wave of strikes involving truck-owners, businessmen and professionals, and some students.

This was widely presented in the media as being a defence of freedom against a tyrannical regime. It led up to the September 11 coup in Chile, which brought the Pinochet regime to power and ushered in a period of vicious repression, involving torture, and the killing of thousands of people. Backing from the USA was crucial in enabling this to happen.

I'm sure there are serious flaws in Venezuelan democracy under Chavez, as there was in Chile under Allende, and as there is is many other countries, including the UK and the USA. But I am equally sure that the regime that is likely to replace Chavez if it gets toppled will be vastly worse, as was the case in Chile.

Subject: RE: BS: Chavez moves against second TV chanel
From: Dickey
Date: 01 Jun 07 - 12:26 PM

Day five of the protests:

Venezuelan Students Spreading News of Killing via Internet
    Malury de Morales is a Venezuelan living in Florida who has been following these events closely through a constant stream of e-mails and instant messages coming from students in Caracas.
    According to a student who e-mailed Ms. Morales and who claims to have been an eyewitness to this afternoon's murder, the security officers who killed Ms. Guevara went out of their way to do so. Her source says that Ms. Guevara was peacefully protesting, but the police broke ranks in order to go get her and shoot her on the street.
    The government of Chavez has issued a statement claiming that the student was killed while engaged in violent protest. Chavez has also broadcast statements that he will "defend Venezuela against violent people."

Venezuela College Students Demonstrate Peacefully
    According to e-mails Ms. Morales has received, the students' protests have involved such slogans as, "We want freedom of speech. We don't want a Communist regime. We don't want violence." All the protests are said by the students to have been peaceful.
    Pictures e-mailed out of Venezuela by the students show masses of young people peacefully marching the streets of Caracas.
    Prior to today's killing, the students have reported violence being used to try to intimidate them.
    One e-mail reports over 120 minors having been returned to their homes by police after having been beaten.

Chavez Stops Venezuelan Media, Takes Aim at College
    Media outside of Venezuela have reported that the student protests, which are now in their fifth day, having begun on May 27, were sparked by the closing of the most popular TV station in Venezuela, RCTV.
    But the students' opposition to the Chavez regime had another important trigger. On May 24, Chavez had announced he would end the autonomy of the Central University of Caracas.
    This university has existed since the beginning of Venezuela and is highly respected. The students of Venezuela are said by Ms. Morales' e-mail correspondents to have viewed the threat to Central University as symbolic of a general attack on Venezuelans' freedom.
    One e-mail concludes with these words: "This is a call for aid, a S. O. S. to all the planet: Do not be deceived by a tyrant, by someone who is unhinged and who promotes the destruction and the death of his people."
    With the close of RCTV, the only media outlet said to be still willing to report honestly on events in Venezuela is the very weak T.V. station Globovision. Recently members of the Chavez-dominated national assembly threatened to close it.
    The students' e-mails also report that Chavez has now threatened to shut down the Internet.

"This is a call for aid: Do not be deceived by a tyrant who promotes the destruction and the death of his people." â€"An e-mail from a Venezuelan student

http://en.epochtimes.com/news/7-6-1/55953.html

Subject: RE: BS: Chavez moves against second TV chanel
From: Dickey
Date: 01 Jun 07 - 11:37 AM

"P.S. Viva la revoultion..."

Howcome the freedom of speech is so vital and inviolable here in the US but in Venezuela it is not necessary?

Subject: RE: BS: Chavez moves against second TV chanel
From: Dickey
Date: 31 May 07 - 10:37 PM

Morales, Correa target TV foes

By Martin Arostegui
THE WASHINGTON TIMES
May 31, 2007

SANTA CRUZ, Bolivia -- The leaders of Bolivia and Ecuador are moving with Cuban encouragement and in concert with their mentor, Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez, to restrict press freedom in their countries.
    Bolivian President Evo Morales and Ecuadorean President Rafael Correa both announced steps to crack down on independent broadcasters within days of Mr. Chavez's closure on Sunday of Venezuela's main independent television station, RCTV.
    Speaking before an international gathering of leftist intellectuals in Cochabamba last week, Mr. Morales proposed creating a tribunal to oversee the operations of privately owned press and broadcast outlets. Mr. Correa announced over the weekend that he would order a review of the broadcasting licenses of opposition news channels in his country.
    Both leaders have drawn support and inspiration from Mr. Chavez's increasingly authoritarian government since coming to power in the past 18 months, and both are drafting new constitutions that would greatly increase their own powers.
    Mr. Correa has ousted 51 opposition deputies from his nation's Congress and Mr. Morales this week ordered the arrests of four high court judges after they issued rulings that challenged his government.
    "The main adversaries of my presidency, of my government, are certain communications media," Mr. Morales said at the Fifth World Conference of Artists and Intellectuals in Defense of Humanity, a Venezuelan-backed group supporting "the process of change in Latin America."
    Appearing alongside Cuba's minister of culture, Abel Prieto, Mr. Morales suggested "drawing on the experience of our friends in Venezuela and Cuba" to establish closer controls over the press.
    Mr. Prieto suggested that some owners of the independent press should receive long prison sentences. "I wish that we could imprison the owner of a media outlet. With much pleasure we would give him a life sentence for lying, for confusing the people," Mr. Prieto said.
    The Cuban official said it was "imperative" to establish a tribunal that would "permit the evaluation and work of the media. Not only local and national but of all the great disinformation machinery in decisive media outlets with enormous world influence."
    Mr. Chavez announced Monday that he would investigate CNN as well as Venezuela's last remaining opposition news channel, Globovision. He has remained defiant in the face of international condemnation and daily street protests in Caracas, telling his opponents to "take a tranquilizer."
    In Ecuador, meanwhile, Mr. Correa issued a statement saying that "radio and TV frequencies have been granted in ways that are frequently dark and it's time to analyze the matter."
    He accused owners of major news outlets of using political influence to get their broadcasting licenses and using the press "to defend private interests that are often corrupt." He also announced legal action against Ecuador's opposition newspaper La Hora.
    Mr. Correa has repeatedly attacked the ownership of news channels by current and former opposition legislators. A reporter for one such radio network was expelled last week from a press conference given by Economics Minister Ricardo Patino.
    Indications that Mr. Morales is preparing to follow the example of his close Venezuelan ally have alarmed Bolivian opposition leaders and news editors, who are frightened by his moves against the judiciary.
    "Morales identifies his enemies," read a banner headline in the Santa Cruz newspaper El Mundo, which pictured a newsroom in the cross hairs of a telescopic rifle.
    Mr. Morales tried to deflect mounting protests on Sunday by saying that he had no immediate plans to close down any TV station and that his criticism was aimed at owners of news organizations and not at individual journalists.

    http://www.washtimes.com/world/20070531-121115-7740r.htm

Subject: RE: BS: Chavez moves against second TV chanel
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 31 May 07 - 09:13 PM

Nickhere believes that any dictator who anoints himself as the savior of the people and condemns the United States as the source of all of their problems deserves to be supported regardless of his motives or actions, and that heroes such as Idi Amin, Kim Jong-il and Sadam Hussein represent national independence in the face of capitalist oppression.

There, Nickhere. See how easy that is for me, too? Now if you want to argue about something I actually said instead of setting up a strawman of what you think I believe, I'll deal with you the same way, and we can have an honest disagreement. Or you can stand on your soapbox and fume. If it's the soapbox, just leave me out of it, please.

I often disagree with McGrath and with Little Hawk, but I respect them, and you don't find me putting words in their mouths to try to slant the argument. That's what separates this forum from many of the slam-arenas on the net.

Subject: RE: BS: Chavez moves against second TV chanel
From: Nickhere
Date: 31 May 07 - 08:44 PM

"Occasionally, the troops of socialism must strike back, and break out of the agenda controlled by the same capitalist media like they did in North Korea, the workers paradise"

Lonesome EJ and Dickey believe Latin America would be much better off in grinding poverty under the heel of the US-backed boot. Then the multitudes of destitute peasants in the capitalist paradise could at least *see* the fruits of capitalism, as enjoyed by the rich elite who benefit most from the kind of right-wing governments favoured by the US and US corporations. I suppose they would at least die happy knowing they lived in grinding poverty in the shadow of such a beautiful flag as the stars and stripes rather than that rotten old rag they fly in North Korea ;-))

Subject: RE: BS: Chavez moves against second TV chanel
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 31 May 07 - 12:52 PM

Here's a list of Television Channels in Venezuela, according to Wikipedia. Quite a long list too.

Subject: RE: BS: Chavez moves against second TV chanel
From: Bobert
Date: 30 May 07 - 08:27 PM

Well, if all of a sudden NBC were to go after Bush with all their furry, what do you think would happen...

Heck, Dan Rather, was just about lynched by the Bushites for s staory on why Bush didn't complete his National Guard stint, which BTW, Bush hsas never been able to prove he did...

A few years back therer was an attempted coup against Hugo and Bush was so anxious to cllebrate that he had his administration welcome the coup-ster as the next leader of Venezuela...

Okay, I don't like news agencies shut down but if they are instruments of folks who care more about power than spreading the news, then, hey, bye-dee-bye.... (Think Fox News here...)

Bobert

P.S. Viva la revoultion...

Subject: RE: BS: Chavez moves against second TV chanel
From: Stringsinger
Date: 30 May 07 - 05:29 PM

thanks Ake,

"Radio Caracas Television — RCTV — and its multi-millionaire owner, Marcel Granier, who are about to lose their unceasing political war against Chávez and Venezuela's Bolívarian revolution, are claiming that 'independent media are being closed down,' that Chávez is a dictator intent on 'restricting freedom of expression and democratic rights.'"

Imagine what Bushco would do if a TV program(s) threatened Bush with assasination.
The corporate interests in the US have been working for years to undermine Chavez and Castro. If a counterpart to Fox News were to be established on TV, imagine how the Bushies would react. Maybe institute an executive directive to inculcate martial law.

The title of this thread should be RCTV moves against Chavez and his reforms.

I still buy Citgo.

Subject: RE: BS: Chavez moves against second TV chanel
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 30 May 07 - 05:28 PM

"In large part" isn't the same as "wholly". The point is that while there are some relatively uncontaminated news sources they are largely swamped by the corrupted media.

Press freedom is desperately important - but that means freedom from the people who buy and sell and use media for their own ends as well as from governments that play the same game.

Subject: RE: BS: Chavez moves against second TV chanel
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 30 May 07 - 05:09 PM

McG, I agree with your first stanza. That's why I brought it up.

As to stanza 2, I couldn't disagree more. Venal, it certainly can be and often is. But for every Fox News example, I can show you examples like Atlantic Magazine which are bastions of truth and integrity. Freedom of the Press is not freedom from disinformation. It is the freedom, unfettered by punishment or retribution, to publish the truth for those who would seek it out.

Subject: RE: BS: Chavez moves against second TV chanel
From: GUEST
Date: 30 May 07 - 04:18 PM

Well said Mr McGrath!

Subject: RE: BS: Chavez moves against second TV chanel
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 30 May 07 - 01:14 PM

When news outlets are bought and sold and controlled by the likes of Rupert Murdoch or Conrad Black that is every bit as much an assault on freedom of the press as anything Chavez has done.

Agreed, a free press would be a mainstay of a free society - but it's a mainstay that in large part we haven't got. And a corrupt and venal press is destructive of a free society, and in large part that is what we do have.

Subject: RE: BS: Chavez moves against second TV chanel
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 30 May 07 - 01:01 PM

Wait till he moves against Chanel No. 5

Subject: RE: BS: Chavez moves against second TV chanel
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 30 May 07 - 11:28 AM

A free press is the mainstay of a free society, and was wisely included in the Bill of Rights of the US Constitution by the framers. Government shut down of a news outlet by a despot like Chavez is an obvious violation of this principle and is unlikely to be tolerated by people in a free society. What those of us living in a democracy with a tradition of free press need to be mindful of is the potential of gradual corporate takeover of news outlets through acquisition (Rupert Murdoch, anyone?)by individuals with a political agenda.

Subject: RE: BS: Chavez moves against second TV chanel
From: Peace
Date: 30 May 07 - 11:25 AM

'"I am sorry that someone having an opinion bothers you." Tell that to Chavez.'

Personally, I don't give a shit. It's South America. Fucked up at the best of times thanks to multinationals and greedy bastards either supported by this or that superpower (in the financial world).

Subject: RE: BS: Chavez moves against second TV chanel
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 30 May 07 - 10:57 AM

Bush or Blair would be green with envy to have those kind of poll results.

"tiredness, fatigue, lack of hope or frustration at unfulfilled promises and poor results" achieved through the Venezuelan government's policies. That sounds remarkably familiar.

Politicians are politicians and they pull the same tricks for the same kind of reasons wherever you go. No reason to demonise Chavez particularly. At least he hasn't invaded anybody.

Subject: RE: BS: Chavez moves against second TV chanel
From: Dickey
Date: 30 May 07 - 10:49 AM

"I am sorry that someone having an opinion bothers you." Tell that to Chavez.

Meanwhile the student protests enter day three and growing.

Assessment of Chávez' government down 9 percent

During the first months of President Hugo Chávez' third period in office, the positive assessment of his administration has declined 9 percent, compared to the weeks prior to the presidential election held last December 3rd.

Oscar Schemel, director of research firm Hinterlaces, said that ending November last year 49 percent of Venezuelans rated Chávez' administration positively. In March, support for Chávez' government was 40 percent. Schemel attributed the decline to "tiredness, fatigue, lack of hope or frustration at unfulfilled promises and poor results" achieved through the Venezuelan government's policies.

Priority approach of ideological issues above day-to-day life problems, such as personal high crime rates, is another factor Schemel suggests to have undermined Chávez' support.

When assessing the satisfaction of the people who voted Chávez last December 3rd, Hinterlaces found that out of every 10 people, "three have regrets, and are angered and disappointed."

Further, Hinterlaces found that 81 percent of Venezuelans reject the closure of private television station RCTV, and brand Chávez' move not to renew the broadcast license for RCTV as "arbitrary, personal and limiting people's access to diverse choices."

http://english.eluniversal.com/2007/05/16/en_pol_art_assessment-of-chavez_16A869899.shtml

Subject: RE: BS: Chavez moves against second TV chanel
From: Riginslinger
Date: 30 May 07 - 10:23 AM

We do it differently here. Here we have our largest defense contractor in possession of NBC, and other large corporate conglomerates snapping up media outlets that serve their interests.

          It's a lot more efficient than storming the radio station of a banana republic, and it's all behind the scenes, doesn't draw a lot of attention, and the people who end up getting shot are all somewhere else.

Subject: RE: BS: Chavez moves against second TV chanel
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 30 May 07 - 02:22 AM

Come on, Peace. It's an argument. It's no fun if it doesn't bother you a little!;>}

Subject: RE: BS: Chavez moves against second TV chanel
From: Peace
Date: 30 May 07 - 01:21 AM

I am sorry that someone having an opinion bothers you.

Subject: RE: BS: Chavez moves against second TV chanel
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 30 May 07 - 01:05 AM

"The troops of capitalism have their ways to control the media. Occasionally, the troops of socialism must strike back, and break out of the agenda controlled by the same capitalist media."..Richard Bridge

This is Socialism like Castro's Cuba is Socialism. What it is is self-coronation by a revolutionary stongman as the Savior of the People. Don't think it was what Jefferson, or even Lenin, had in mind, do you? You remember Benevolent Dictatorship don't you? Napoleon had it down..first declare liberty, equality, and fraternity, then declare your self Emperor. Otherwise, the enemies of freedom will crush your fledgling Democracy.

We hear plenty of enlightened opinions from those safely ensconced within the borders of Canada, the US, Ireland, etc. Would love to hear someone from Mainland China voice the joys of Socialist Autocracy.

Subject: RE: BS: Chavez moves against second TV chanel
From: Dickey
Date: 30 May 07 - 12:44 AM

If you want the Pros and Cons on Chavez read this

In there it talks about how most of the land belongs to the elite and then it discusses "Fátima Vieira, the daughter of a Portuguese truck driver who moved to Venezuela 50 years ago, said she was struggling to receive compensation for a 170-acre sugar cane farm controlled by squatters.
As on other seized estates, she said squatters burned much of her sugar cane in an attempt to intimidate her.

Vieira, 43, said she also feared for her life after a gunman shot her brother, Antonio, in the neck one balmy night in August in 2003, on the edge of his sugar cane farm. He died in the cab of his Ford pickup truck. After that incident squatters took over his property, she said."

The Daughter and Son of an immigrant truck driver are elite?

Subject: RE: BS: Chavez moves against second TV chanel
From: Peace
Date: 30 May 07 - 12:22 AM

The terms 'left' and 'right' don't really mean anything within the context of this situation. I think that despite doing so much good for the poor of his country, Chavez is making moves we have seen before in some other South American countries. In Kissinger's words, "Even paranoids have enemies."

Chavez is not loved by the US administration. This article from a few years ago is a must-read.

Whether Chavez is making a power grab because he wishes to keep effecting change in Venezuela, or because he feels a definite threat of another attempt to overthrow him, he is taking a shot at having more power. For what I have no idea--meaning has he gone over to the 'darkside', and if so, whose? And if not, then who would have an interest in seeing him topple.

Another thing to look at besides the news we're fed is the relationship between Venezuela and China. And who would find the cooperation between those countries to be against its corporate or national interest?

I don't think the thing in Venezuela is quite as simple as it seems. There are lots of dancers on the main screen, but the people in the shadows are even more interesting, IMO.

Subject: RE: BS: Chavez moves against second TV chanel
From: katlaughing
Date: 29 May 07 - 11:31 PM

Well said, Wolfgang.

Subject: RE: BS: Chavez moves against second TV chanel
From: Dickey
Date: 29 May 07 - 11:14 PM

Protests are continuing and larger today. High school students are protesting now. Chavez has asked supporters to protest the protesters. But it is all rightwing imperialist propaganda right?

The newspapers are next.

Subject: RE: BS: Chavez moves against second TV chanel
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 29 May 07 - 04:26 PM

I suppose the right time to have closed down the stations that supported the coup might have been immediately afterwards. But that would have been attacked as excessively hardline and as a totalitarian reaction. The option (copied from Thatcher) of waiting till the licence expired and needed to be renewed, and then not renewing it, did at least open the possibility of a move to a more measured and responsible type of opposition - which from all I have read was not taken. (And by "measured and responsible type of opposition" I mean real opposition, such as is demonstrated every day in other countries.)

"...one of the worst caudillos Latin America has brought forth" - not really. Caudillo is a fair enough term to use, but as Latin American caudillos go calling Chavez "one of the worst" is hardly justified. (Batista, Somoza, Pinochet...) He's a populist politician, which is what most politicians actually aspire to be, one way for another. Better than some, worse than some. No grounds for idolising him or demonising him.

Subject: RE: BS: Chavez moves against second TV chanel
From: Wolfgang
Date: 29 May 07 - 03:21 PM

I see the reflexes of the left are still working as ever: The enemy of my enemy just has to be my friend.

With the benefit of these reflexes and with a blind eye to populism as long as it uses loosely phrases of the left they greet one of the worst caudillos Latin America has brought forth. Of course, it is fun to watch as Chavez plays opposition to a really stupid US government. But that should not blind us to the dangers of another authoritarian lider.

I can only shake my head at the bad memories of those who swallow Chavez' reasoning for the closure and regurgitate it here. We have the usual suspects telling us how bad it was that the TV station has supported a coup and that it should be expected that such a TV station may be closed. I nearly cry for pity with Chavez. The government controlled one TV station and 2 radio stations in 1999. Now it controls 4 TV stations and 7 radio stations. But still poor Chavez has to listen to voices of dissent. That may give him ulcers and we surely would not wish for that.

Do you really not remember (or do you prefer not to mention?) that Chavez first appearance in national politics was a failed coup with several people killed? A coup against a president who was for three consecutive terms vice-president of the Socialist International and has received the "Earth Care" award for his efforts in environmental protection? Chavez was pardoned two years after the failed coup but now he can no longer listen to a TV station that once has supported a coup?

Chavez is in the game for power and nothing else. Right now, he uses socialist phrases to rally the poor masses against the elites. Mugabe has led this way. Of course, each Latin American leader always knows that applause can be elicited by attacks against Bush. Bush deserves all these attacks, but that should not blind us to the ugly faces and deeds of some of his critics. Chavez does not deserve any of our support.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Chavez moves against second TV chanel
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 29 May 07 - 11:50 AM

So, you agree that Bush can shut down any station critical of his administration?

There is a slight difference between being critical of an administration and supporting an armed coup which temporarily succeeded in overthrowing a democratically elected government.

Subject: RE: BS: Chavez moves against second TV chanel
From: Dickey
Date: 29 May 07 - 10:15 AM

University students demonstrate on behalf of RCTV

EL UNIVERSAL Caracas

Students at the Andrés Bello Catholic University (UCAB) and the Simón Bolívar University (USB) early on Friday staged demonstrations showing support for private television station RCTV, the broadcast license of which expires next May 27 and will not be renewed by President Hugo Chávez' government.

At UCAB, students blocked a major avenue near campus, while at USB, the demonstrators staged their protest in campus and surrounding areas without blocking roads or avenues.

Freddy Guevara, a journalism student at UCAB told local news TV station Globovisión they are advocating "two fundamental principles, namely, freedom of expression as a right of all Venezuelans and human beings, and the autonomy of universities, following President Hugo Chávez' remarks late Thursday."

Chávez late Thursday announced a comprehensive transformation of universities nationwide.

Students of the Central University of Venezuela (UCV) took Friday the Francisco Fajardo highway in Caracas to refuse the government decision not to renew a concession to use the radio spectrum for private TV channel Radio Caracas Televisión (RCTV).

Students started the protest inside the campus and then came out to express their disagreement with the action. They marched holding placards, chanted slogans, blew whistles and sounded horns. They also delivered fliers to the drivers on transit nearby.

The protest caught the attention of multiple pedestrians. They stopped by to watch the demonstration and even some of them exchanged words with the students.

Countryside
University students in several towns in Venezuela demonstrated to reject President Hugo Chávez' refusal to renew the broadcast license for private television station RCTV, which expires next May 27 at midnight.

Hundreds of people staged demonstrations in southwestern Táchira and Mérida states, central Aragua state, southwestern Barinas state, and southeastern Bolívar state.

Subject: RE: BS: Chavez moves against second TV chanel
From: Dickey
Date: 29 May 07 - 09:37 AM

Occasionally, the troops of socialism must strike back, and break out of the agenda controlled by the same capitalist media like they did in North Korea, the workers paradise.

Subject: RE: BS: Chavez moves against second TV chanel
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 29 May 07 - 02:59 AM

How long can any democracy permit the ceaseless propaganda, and poisoning of minds and voting patterns by media owned by right-wing capitalists, bent on promoting their own causes, and with the power to blackmail the government? For example the Sun and the Times and Sky TV.

The troops of capitalism have their ways to control the media. Occasionally, the troops of socialism must strike back, and break out of the agenda controlled by the same capitalist media.

Subject: RE: BS: Chavez moves against second TV chanel
From: akenaton
Date: 29 May 07 - 02:59 AM

If anyone is interested, here    is the real RCTV story..Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Chavez moves against second TV chanel
From: akenaton
Date: 29 May 07 - 02:47 AM

Thanks for that Peace... Those who watch Bush pass also have tears in their eyes.............Tears of shame..Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Chavez moves against second TV chanel
From: Dickey
Date: 29 May 07 - 02:12 AM

Multilateralism is something well known in Canada, as it has been intrinsically part of our foreign policy designs for decades. By assuming multilateralism, we are not overlooking the limitations and challenges that multilateral organizations present, but rather understanding that working within them potentially amplifies the reach of our policies. Within multilateral arrangements, individual gains are diffused and outweighed by collective gains from shared principles and frameworks. Multilateralism is an option that complements and enhances a sovereign independent foreign policy.

Why then would a government choose to withdraw from these arenas? The answer to this question exposes how similar the Venezuelan strategies are to those of the "empire" it proclaims to oppose. Chavez's actions in multilateral fora are explained by a hegemonic ambition of setting the rules, and subjecting partners to compliance with his desires, if in hope of benefiting from his oil-financed largesse.

In the context of the Bolivarian Alternative (ALBA) Summit, Bolivian President Evo Morales accused the World Bank's International Centre for Settlement of Investment Disputes of consistently ruling in favour of multinational corporations, while Chavez' reaction was to propose that all ALBA countries withdraw from that institution. And so they did. This means no real change for Venezuela, already in the process of withdrawing from membership to the World Bank; no change for Cuba, which is not a member to begin with; but for Bolivia and Nicaragua, two countries that rely heavily on being able to attract foreign investment, the decision sends a very counterproductive message of disdain for international rules.

http://www.embassymag.ca/html/index.php?display=story&full_path=/2007/may/9/chavez/

Subject: RE: BS: Chavez moves against second TV chanel
From: Peace
Date: 29 May 07 - 01:21 AM

'With that in mind, this is usually the time when the left wing and the right wing take their positions. On the right-wing side, always in the name of freedom, people will defend the right of RCTV to stand for whatever it is they believe and condemn Chavez's decision of revoking their license, calling it "political." On the left-wing side, people will call RCTV an instrument of the Venezuelan oligarchies, used to manipulate the population against Chavez's socialist revolution, to the benefit of the elites. Then they will call the mainstream media decision to criticize Chavez "political." The problem is that in this case, both sides are right.'


From here.

Subject: RE: BS: Chavez moves against second TV chanel
From: Peace
Date: 29 May 07 - 12:36 AM

However, Chile has condemned his action in taking control of RCTV, and if there is a country that should know about human rights abuses, they qualify.

Subject: RE: BS: Chavez moves against second TV chanel
From: Peace
Date: 29 May 07 - 12:27 AM

"Two students were injured by rubber bullets and a third was hit with a tear gas canister, said Ana Teresa Yepez, an administrator at Caracas' Metropolitan University. She said about 20 protesters were treated for inhaling tear gas."

Sounds like the Washington Moratorium.

Subject: RE: BS: Chavez moves against second TV chanel
From: katlaughing
Date: 29 May 07 - 12:12 AM

Would suggest, to any who are interested, also reading The Devil's Excrement's daily blog entry about this.The entry is from the trenches.



An excerpt: And to close a long list of international organizations with exquisite credentials in the defense of human rights and freedom of speech, Reporters without Borders published a strong condemnation of the shutdown of RCTV on the part of the Chávez Government, which left no doubt in the clarity of its words:

"The closure of RCTV, which was founded in 1953, is a serious violation of freedom of expression and a major setback to democracy and pluralism…President Chávez has silenced Venezuela's most popular TV station and the only national station to criticize him, and he has violated all legal norms by seizing RCTV's broadcast equipment for the new public TV station that is replacing it…The grounds given for not renewing RCTV's license, including its support, along with other media, for the April 2002 coup attempt, are just pretexts."

Subject: RE: BS: Chavez moves against second TV chanel
From: Peace
Date: 28 May 07 - 11:54 PM

:Is the present government perfect? No, but the country is light years ahead of where it was under those who ruled before and want to control it again. They still have power and money. If you doubt it, just look at most news releases and editorials about Venezuela.

But if you want to know what is really happening in Venezuela, come and look at the eyes of the men the next time Chavez passes by.

Charles Hardy is a free-lance writer living in Venezuela. He is a native of the U.S. state of Wyoming.
This article was originally published by The Rocky Mountains News on June 25th."



There ya go, Dickey. A little light reading for you.